EFR 909: Stop Trying, Start Doing: How to Overcome Fear, Procrastination, and People-Pleasing with Carla Ondrasik

00:00 - Chase (Host)

The following is an Operation Podcast production. 

00:03 - Carla (Guest)

Nobody's bold. Trying is not bold, trying is not courageous, trying is not brave. Jumping right in there and saying, here I come and you're going to hear this. And he said, okay, we're going to turn this into a hit on this label and it became the title track to Cher's I think, first United States or international record, heart of Stone. It is a fear response to try. Well, you know. In fact, when you try, you're putting failure in the driver's seat, you're putting it ahead of you, like you're literally self-imposing to be put in second place. Why would you do that? I'm Carla Andrasik, the author of Stop Trying. Welcome to Ever Forward Radio. 

00:50 - Chase (Host)

Hey guys, my guest today is here to talk about her amazing new book. If you want to check out the book, I have it linked for you, as always, like everything in the show notes today under episode resources. But maybe listening is more your jam and maybe free sounds good to you as well. Well, why not get the free audio book version? Head to audibletrialcom slash ever forward. Sign up today. 

01:11

We get a free 30 day trial of my favorite, my go-to audio book app. It's so easy to use. It's packed by Amazon. In fact, if you're a prime member, you not only get one credit, but you get two. It's good to select any premium selection you want. You can get this book for free and after that it's just a low monthly fee. You can cancel anytime you want. So if you like free, then check out her book or any other book on your wishlist by heading to audibletrialcom slash everford to sign up for that free 30-day trial and get that free credit today. Your message, to quote, stop trying is seemingly counterproductive in a world that really praises hustle and grind and effort. So I have to ask what sparked this philosophy for you and why now? Why do you think we all need to hear this message now more than ever. 

02:09 - Carla (Guest)

Okay, two excellent questions. So number one why we need this message now more than ever, is because, especially the young generation, we are used to receiving everything quicker, better, faster, easier, with very little effort. You know, you can order a blueberry smoothie delivered to your door like boom boom. 

02:33 - Chase (Host)

I did that yesterday. Okay, there you go. 

02:36 - Carla (Guest)

And so we're developing a mindset of very little effort. And so when you stop trying, you have to slow down and actually put the effort into what it is that you want to do, and a lot of times the real meat and potatoes, the real beautiful rewards in life require that. So when we throw a try at something, you try oh well, I tried, I failed, I give up, okay next. So that's the process I want to interrupt. So that's number one. And what spawned this for me is I really have lived my whole life not trying. I'm a gambler's daughter. Winning is key when you're, you know when you're. 

03:20

My dad was not a great gambler, but what happened was my life was very untraditional, the way that I was raised. Sometimes we were just like we're out of here, like on a moment's notice and it's sink or swim. So I was pretty much raised that way and also I want people to win. I'm a motivator by nature. I'm a motivator by nature. In my past careers I have found myself always in a position where I can motivate, inspire and help people reach their dreams. All the way back to I was working in employee relations for a company in Orange County and I was the voice between upper management and the shop floor and I would realize what the shop floor needed to get their jobs done better and communicate that to upper management, and it was a wonderful process to see. And then I graduated on into the music publishing world where I literally made dreams come true for songwriters, for recording artists, and that's my happy place. I just want people to win, so that's what motivates me to do this. 

04:23 - Chase (Host)

So this whole aspect of not trying, I think it's going to maybe Russell, ruffle some feathers or get people to scratch their head in a different way, Because I, personally speaking, have heard and been taught you know it's, it's all about trying. As long as you're trying. It's only important that you're trying and you know that you tried and therefore you never failing, because if you're trying and then you might fail, but you're going to fail forward and just keep trying, trying again. So I want to kind of take this old meets new philosophy and get your interpretation on a few what I think are pretty popular quotes that people might be, you know, lassoing their moon to, so to speak of. Okay, this is going to motivate me. Trying is important. One coming from this was from Wayne Gretzky, I believe. Yes, so you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So this is all about emphasizing the importance of taking chances, putting yourself out there, trying, trying, trying. How would you reinterpret that through the lens of not trying? 

05:21 - Carla (Guest)

Wayne Gretzky probably never entered the ice ring saying I'm going to try to score some goals today. He had a strong mental mindset of I'm doing this. Same with Serena Williams. And you know all the greats they creatively visualize, they see it happening before it happens. They're doers. And I think to your question you know try harder, try your best, give it a try. You know you're a new dad, you're going to raise your son. Like, get out there and try, try your best. I think that's a disservice. We're taught to try, as you said, our whole lives. Our parents taught us to try. Their parents taught them to try. So we believe that trying is a noble effort. That is brave, that it's a positive thing. But the problem is we are misinterpreting, we are fooled and tricked into believing that trying is a good thing. 

06:19

Yes, we are. So the Yoda statement? Right, we were talking about that when I came in. Uh, do or do not, there is no try. Well, there's a quote right before that famous scene with um, luke Skywalker and Yoda. And what Yoda says, which I feel is so important and people just miss it, is you must unlearn what you have learned. 

06:46 - Chase (Host)

Oh, hold up, he talks about that before the do or do not. There is no try. I mean, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but I'm familiar enough to. I didn't know that was part of the line, Isn't? That amazing, so we're just kind of segmenting out the parts that we want. Huh. 

06:59 - Carla (Guest)

You have to unlearn what you have learned. It's missed. You know, everyone knows, oh, do or do not. There is no try. There's posters and but really not many of us have stopped to sit back and go. Why Like? Why not try? What does he mean by that? And there's a lot of reasons why we shouldn't try and why we have to unlearn what that means, because we've been using that as a form of encouragement to people. 

07:26 - Chase (Host)

Okay, Now I want to get you to. I want you to take on the goat, michael Jordan. Okay, I cannot accept failure Everyone fails at something but I cannot accept not trying. So he's talking about how failure is a part of life, but really how not trying is a choice that we can regret. How are you going to go against Michael Jordan here? 

07:48 - Carla (Guest)

Again, I think Michael Jordan is doing what hundreds of millions of us do, and it's why I'm bringing attention to this. We are misinterpreting what trying means. He means doing, he is a doer, okay. So semantics, okay. I think that is a moment where you're talking semantics. So odds are, if Michael Jordan says I'm going to try to get this basketball in the hoop, he's probably going to do it. Right, but I'm not talking about those kind of things. That's not what concerns me. 

08:22

I actually dropped my engagement ring down the middle of the car seat on the way here. I was driving, stuck in traffic and fiddling with my ring and it flew off and I thought to myself I am not going to try and get that ring, you know. Or I could have said I'll try to get it. The odds are I'm going to get it because it's my engagement ring and I want it. So for Michael Jordan, yeah, I think he's just right, along with the rest of us human beings who misinterpret what that means. Trying is a half-hearted attempt or an effort. That's the dictionary definition in every dictionary you go to. That's not Michael Jordan's mentality. Okay, trying is half-hearted Doing. Actually trying is I'll kind of, maybe sort of do it later, if-ish I feel like it. 

09:12 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, If we're being really honest with ourselves when we say try what we're probably imagining the process looking like, yeah. 

09:18 - Carla (Guest)

Absolutely Trying is. It's just another way of saying you're going to procrastinate without who wants to say, look, I'm a procrastinator and I'm not going to do this. I love to use my kids as an example, but you know, I asked my son. He just moved to Texas. You know, I don't schedule your appointments anymore. You need to find a dentist, you need to find a doctor. And he said, ok, I'll try to do that this week. And I'm like, oh my God, like you said that word to me. And he's like you know what, mom, I'm not going to do it, it's not important to me, I'm going to put it off and when I need it I will. And sure enough, literally four wisdom teeth, emergency surgery. Later he found a dentist. So we try because it's hiding behind procrastination. We try because we're afraid of failure. That's the real meaning of try. You know I'm getting now into why we try, but trying is kind of maybe half-hearted, I'm not going to do it. 

10:15 - Chase (Host)

Kind of softens the blow a little bit and even allows us to hide behind commitment or not commit to commitment. And also this concept of self-sabotage comes to mind for me by saying we're going to try to do something, Would you agree? Is that kind of a slippery slope into self-sabotaging this, this task that we're actually trying to accomplish? 

10:37 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, well, when we try it, there's a whole bag of negative things that come along with it. So when you say I'm going to try, okay, you're in the fitness world, right, I'm going to try to go to the gym this year and I'm going to try and build my muscles up, okay. But you know, monday rolls along and you're too tired and you're too busy and you don't do it, and then you end up just not going. Negative self-talk jumps right in. Well, you're a loser, you're weak, you're never going to do this, you can't do this, and that's a really bad slippery slope that you don't want to go down. 

11:14

But when someone says I'm going to the gym, I'm doing this, their brain goes this way Okay, it stops that uh excuses, it stops the blaming somebody else for not being able to go. You're, you're on a more uh driven trajectory of a beginning and an end. You can see it. But when you say you'll try, it's like well, I don't really have to, I can start, I can try tomorrow. So it's, it's a lot of uh say, collateral damage that comes along with trying, and that's the thing. 

11:49 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, you kind of just said it there, I can try tomorrow. So when we say I'll try, we can always try. There's only a specific time of doing, because doing is actual, doing is finite. Trying is the perpetual process of attempting, right? 

12:08 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, you know there's no physical action for trying. Trying is a mental activity. It's thinking about, wondering about, worrying about Doing is a physical action. So, okay, let's take my book, for example. Okay, I'd like you to try to pick the book up. Actually, I'm going to give you three directions. Like you to try to pick the book up? Actually, I'm going to give you three directions, okay. So, first, pick the book up. Do pick the book up, beautiful. Now put it down. Okay, now do not pick the book up. 

12:36 - Chase (Host)

You're amazing right Now Two for two here. 

12:39 - Carla (Guest)

Try to pick that book up. You're not going to pick it up and you're not going to not pick it up. I want to see you, like, physically, try to pick it up. 

12:47 - Chase (Host)

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14:31 - Carla (Guest)

You're doing nothing. 

14:33 - Chase (Host)

I'm making sure that I'm not doing. 

14:35 - Carla (Guest)

You're not doing it, there's no action for trying. Did you feel a little silly? Was it confusing to you? Yeah, that's what's happening in your brain. It's confused. It doesn't know what to do. When you tell it to do something, you know we're the commander in chief, we are the engineer. We tell our brains exactly what we're going to do every day, all the way from the little tiny everyday things all the way up to the great big things that affect our health, our happiness, our relationships, our careers. Trying, that act of, of not doing anything, that thing that's trying, affects every single one of those life domains. 

15:19 - Chase (Host)

I see. 

15:20 - Carla (Guest)

It's amazing. 

15:22 - Chase (Host)

Okay, so kind of getting into the actual core work of the book. You talk about pulling here from my chapters one and two, especially the try, test and nose touching analogy. You argue that, quote trying is often a fear response rather than a courageous step forward. Can you share how this realization has played out in your own life or career, to give us kind of a personal experience? 

15:45 - Carla (Guest)

Okay, yeah, so well, um, I don't really try. I can show you how not trying um overcoming the fear response works. So, for example, I was in the music business and selling music like my job was to take a song and give it to a recording artist and make it a hit on the radio. So some of the songs you know I've been responsible for either putting the songwriters together that wrote it or giving it to the artist, and I love this story. So when you're in the business of selling music, it's like ice to Eskimos, it's intangible. Okay, there's so much competition. There are thousands and thousands of songs back in the day that were were being pitched to make a spot on a 10 song album. It was unbelievable. 

16:37 - Chase (Host)

Like the songwriter would actually like, so if the band and musicians, not the one creating it, right. Is that what I'm understanding? People that record other songs, that don't write. 

16:46 - Carla (Guest)

So say okay, cher, when she she's actually one of the top selling artists of all time. She's broken so many records. I remember a song came in from our UK office and it was called Heart of Stone and I heard the song and there were a lot of people in the company that could pitch that song and I went into my boss and I said please give me 24 hours exclusive. I'm going to get this song recorded. And he let me. He's like go. And there was a guy at Geffen Records Aerosmith was on the label, cher, guns N' Roses and I'm like I'm going to get this song a really big cover. 

17:23

But you had to get to John Claudner, who was almost as famous as his bands were. The guy was legendary. He is legendary. He's an A&R guy named John Claudner. He's behind a lot of responsibility for a lot of great artists on that Geffen label. And so I called his office and I said, hi, I'm Carla Berkowitz at the time and I want to get a song to John Claudner. I think it'll be a hit for one of your artists. And the secretary was like sorry, he doesn't meet with people. You know, you're going to have to find another way to get your song heard. And I said this is where the fear response what stops people? I said you know what I'm coming over right now? Just tell him that I'm coming over with my song Because that was what it was going to take to get him to hear it. And when I got there this is the magic the door was wide open and he was sitting back there and he said let's hear your hit song really yeah, it was. 

18:25

Who does that? Nobody's bold. You know, not trying is not bold, trying is not courageous, trying is not brave. Jumping right in there and saying here I come and you're gonna hear this and I'm you know, I'm professional, I'm not a whack, you know, I had experience in music. 

18:44

So we put the cassette in disclaimer and he said, okay, we're going to turn this into a hit on this label and it became the title track to shares I think first united states or international record heart of stone, wow, and it sold millions of records and because you did, because I did I didn't allow. 

19:05

It is a fear response to try. Well, you know, in fact, when you try, you're putting failure in the driver's seat. You're putting it ahead of you, like you're literally self-imposing to be put in second place. Why would you do that? Right, we all need an advantage. Not trying to me is a superpower. It's like this magic elixir that that can get you more than you ever imagined. 

19:38 - Chase (Host)

But what about the person going I need to try because I don't know how to do? If I knew how to do, then I would be doing If I knew how to work out, if I knew how to lose weight, if I knew how to ask that guy out, if I knew how to invest money. But I need to try first. Or is that just a lie we're telling ourself? Is that just more padding between us and what we actually want and how to actually move forward in life? So how would you then kind of guide someone to go you don't need to try to do this new thing, you need to do the new thing and actually convince them that they can. 

20:15 - Carla (Guest)

Yes, okay. So you have to back up a little bit. I think doing action requires really strong motivation. So and or even not, if it's strong, clear. So you have to say okay, I want to learn about investing. How badly do you want to learn about investing? So what's your motivation? Why do you want to do that? Okay, now that we have that set, I want to buy a house. So I want to. By the time I'm 25 or 28, or 32, I want to own a home. So now I have a really clear motivation and a reason for why I want to do what I want to do. And then you have to take the first step. 

20:53

Trying is, as I pointed out, it's inaction. Oh, I'm thinking about it, I'm going to talk about it, I'm worrying about it, I'm wondering about it. It's all in here, nothing's happening. So how do you do that? You buy a book, you listen to your podcast, you listen to an investment podcast. You start taking people out to lunch or bringing them a coffee that are doing what you want to do. You start take the action little, little, small steps at a time and then, pretty soon, you're in it. There's actually a quote. I think it's the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck? I'm not sure. 

21:29 - Chase (Host)

Mark Manson who. 

21:30 - Carla (Guest)

I love, I love that book. He says that we believe we have to be motivated first to take action. That's what we are we're sitting around. Well, I don't feel motivated to do that. It's motivation actually follows action. So the minute you buy that book and start reading it and watching things about investing, that's going to get you motivated. 

21:56 - Chase (Host)

The impediment to action advances action? 

21:58 - Carla (Guest)

Absolutely, it's the opposite. So to that person I don't know how to ask girls out, I don't know how to invest, I don't know how to start my own podcast Do. Get out of your head. That is what I just want to scream Like stop trying and start doing it, and I've seen lives change in 24 hours. I've seen it happen. 

22:19 - Chase (Host)

I love that last part. You kind of just talked about, um, you know, I don't know how to ask the girl out, like well, no one does you, just do it. I especially that last last part about I don't know how to start a podcast. I didn't know how to do that, I just did it. How do I record? I record, how do I edit, I edit. So it's like the the confusion and novelty and mystery around the unknown is is very, very minuscule. Uh, it's a much larger gap in our minds than it is when we actually get down to the task. The thing preventing us from asking the girl out is just us not asking the girl out. The gap between that is just is this collapse when we go hey, do you want to go get coffee? So we didn't try to do it, we just did it. 

23:07

Right and so it kind of as I'm saying it out loud, it kind of I don't know, can kind of sound like obvious, you know, like oh, like well, duh, no shit. If we want to do the thing, we do the thing. But if more people did do the thing and weren't stuck behind the the lie of trying, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? 

23:27 - Carla (Guest)

No, we wouldn't. And a good visual is, you know, so for the guy. Let's stick with the guy who doesn't know how to ask the girl out. Ok, imagine he's just walking over this bridge and under the bridge are excuses. Well, I can't ask her out because I don't make enough money and I can't take her out for dinner, blame. Well, I can't ask her out because I don't make enough money and I can't take her out for dinner, blame. Well, I can't ask her out because I don't have enough time. My company, you know, fear. Well, what if she says no, you know. So we have all these boulders that block us. But you know, you have to just take the dive and saying no and being turned down could be the greatest thing in the world because that girl wasn't for you. And then it leads you to the next person. So, yeah, you have to just kind of jump right over those things. 

24:16 - Chase (Host)

You write about how trying is inherited. I thought this was a really unique take. A generational heirloom. You know, we might get some nice jewelry, maybe a little inheritance, some clothes, maybe some property, some unfavorable epigenetics. You know, maybe we have to work harder in the gym because of family history, but now you're even saying this too is something that we inherit. So how did your upbringing shape your early views of effort and ambition and how did you start to quote? Unlearn that? 

24:46 - Carla (Guest)

Well, I was very lucky. Like I said, I had a very unconventional childhood. But my parents anything I wanted to do, whether it was be in Fife and Drum Corps or play the clarinet or literally move across the country at 16 years old on a Greyhound bus to be with a boyfriend, they were like go, girl, you can do it. You know, go for it. And at the same time, they put us in situations where it's okay, you'll survive this. You know they were. They had a lot of belief in us, even at a very young age. So I wasn't given that generational heirloom and I had really great people. I remember I changed my birth certificate when I was 14 because I wanted to work at an ice cream store. I needed to make money. I needed money. We had no money. 

25:35 - Chase (Host)

So did you change your birth date. 

25:37 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, I just whited it out. My mom helped me. I think we just scratched it out. 

25:41 - Chase (Host)

So to make yourself older, for what a worker's permit. 

25:50 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, so I could get the job. So I had a lot of like help that way and I remember early bosses just promoting me quickly. You know, starting out as a, I was in the job even before employee relations. I was the girl that would flag people through and check their badges at Northrop Corporation. So I was like insecurity. 

26:06

But very quickly I had a lot of belief the people that I worked with. They moved me into classified documents and I worked at top secret locations where they were building bombs. And then I moved even further into that company and it was me that said you know, I'm a doer and I'm capable of doing all this and thank you for your belief in me, but I'm out Like this is not what I want my life to be. So I think if you embody that doing mentality, that's where the leaders are Presidents of companies Elon Musk's, michael Jordan's, serena Williams, all of the people that are. They rise to the top because they're accountable. When you say you're going to try, there is zero accountability in that you are off the hook no matter what it is. 

26:55

So you're going to hire the guy and promote the guy. That's showing accountability. When they say they're going to give you the report by the end of the day, when they say they're going to give you the report by the end of the day, it's on your desk right. So I was very lucky to have been brought up with that mentality and then to have taken it as far as I can go with it. 

27:16 - Chase (Host)

That's amazing. Some good parenting advice in there as well. I'm going to take note of that, oh yeah. Your story about visualizing outcomes before taking action was pretty compelling as well, so I'm curious what role do you think imagination plays in the trap of trying, and how can we use it more effectively so that we can shift right into action. 

27:37 - Carla (Guest)

That's really a great question. 

27:39

The trap of trying so creative visualization this whole thing actually for me began in its earliest stages over a decade ago was I would write down in a book. I called it my magic book. It wasn't journaling, it was one time, once a year, one day, and I would thank the universe for everything I have. But I would say this year I want a song in the top 10. I want a top 10 pop single. I want to sign a contract for X amount, you know, for another three year contract with EMI Music Publishing. I want to meet this guy and I would describe him like he's rugged and can go camping, but he can rock a tuxedo and enjoy a good cabernet. 

28:25

You know, like I created my husband in that book. 

28:27 - Chase (Host)

That sounds like a great guy he's amazing. 

28:30 - Carla (Guest)

So I thought that it was the fact that I was writing things down and imagining them, creative visualization manifesting. But what I discovered because I had workshops, I'd have women come and I'd have them answer questions I was just fascinated by it. What I found was it wasn't writing it down, it was the words that I was using. It was never I'm going to try hope, wish, want. It was as if it was happening, doing, having, being, and that is what is so powerful. That's the difference, literally. I could you want a little example? 

29:11 - Chase (Host)

of how this works. 

29:13 - Carla (Guest)

So well, there's a couple One I'm going to give you very quickly. My husband was working with an engineer and he had just broken up with his girlfriend and we were rolling up some cords in the studio and he's like Carla, how am? 

29:27

I going to find somebody else. You know, and I'm like, well, I do this thing where I write it down and I create her and, sure enough, very quickly after that he's like, I met her and you know, then they got married and, you know, had children, and so it works. This is my favorite story that I share a lot. It might even be in the book. I would take my kids to the school bus every morning and it was at a park and so I'd bring the dog, I'd say goodbye to the kids, the dog would go running around the park and every day I'd see this guy and he'd walk around the park with these headphones on and just like, very seriously, walk the loop of the park. We never said anything to each other and I was in the music business, like I want to know what the heck is he listening to. Is he listening to my husband? 

30:14 - Chase (Host)

So intensely yeah. 

30:15 - Carla (Guest)

Right. So one day he took the headphone off and he was fiddling with it and I'm like I'm in. So I'm like hi, I see you here all the time, what are you listening to? And he goes. You know, I listen to motivational tapes and self-help podcasts and there's so many things that I'm trying to do and I just can't seem to get. You know, get going. And I hear the try word. So I'm just like firing on all levels and I said tell me one thing, one thing you're trying to do. He's like okay, I'm trying to get back into swimming, I'm trying to swim, I need to get physical again and we have a new pool at the YMCA. And all I did was I looked at him and I said stop trying to go swim, stop and go swim. 

31:09 - Chase (Host)

What did he say to that? 

31:10 - Carla (Guest)

Nothing. I said just stop trying to go swim and go swim. And he's like okay, you know, put the headphones back on, went on his way and I thought I'm never going to see this guy again. 

31:21 - Chase (Host)

Thanks, lady, I got to go. 

31:22 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, but I'm like stop trying to swim and go swim. He came back 24 hours later. I bring the kids to the bus. He's a maniac screaming. I did it, I did it, I swam. I didn't try, I did it. To this day I just saw his wife at Ralph's and he's like he's still swimming and he quit his job. 

31:43

He changed his job, wow. So you know. It's important to note that trying doesn't guarantee not trying doesn't guarantee success, but it does guarantee you a better chance at success. And he got out of his head. He stopped thinking he could have spent what? Another six months thinking about, wondering about and worrying about and motivating himself to go swim, when it was just stop trying. What are you doing? You're not doing anything. Months thinking about, wondering about and worrying about and motivating himself to go swim, when it was just stop trying. What are you doing? You're not doing anything. Go do it. And he did it. And now he's just going on to the next thing and the next thing. 

32:16 - Chase (Host)

I have to wonder right now. You know, here we are, summer 2025 and you know, not really anything unique to today in particular, but just kind of the modern day. There are so many things that we can do because of the internet, because of smartphones and social media and podcasts like this, we are privy to so many amazing people and things and options. There's, I believe, limitless potential for what we can do with our lives. Do you wonder what is your take on kind of this information overload? When it comes to doing so, let's say, let's get past the trying. 

32:57

I want to try to be a podcaster, I want to try to be a good boyfriend, I want to try to swim, I want to try to do all these things. Let's say we're in the doing mindset right now. I'm I am a podcaster, I am a swimmer, I am a stellar husband, I am a good dad, I am a hybrid athlete. Insert your tasks here. If we're doing all these things, how can we effectively do them all? How can we be good at all of them and how do we know if we're doing all the right things? Well, too much doing, yeah. 

33:32 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, no, there's never too much doing, okay, but you bring up a great point Choosing not to do something is stronger than trying to do it and failing. So if you, like I said, you have to have a really strong motivation. You know you can't do everything all the time You're going to start failing at something's going to fall off. You know something. You're going to start trying what. You're doing it. But okay, well, I I'm going to try to spend more time with my kids because I'm doing all this great work. You know stuff at work and I'm doing this physical stuff. So so there are things that are going to fall into the try category. 

34:13

Okay, so no, you can't do everything, but the things that you choose to do, you have to make sure that they are in that do. I'm not saying you can't try anymore. You could, even after this, like anyone that's listening, go, go ahead and try. But just know what that means. Just know that you're half-hearted in your effort. Just know that you're putting fear in front and failure in the first place. I don't know anybody that if there's a dream, they have a wish, something that they want to do, why they would try? Why would a husband try to get closer to his wife. Why would a dad try to spend more time with their kid Right? 

34:55 - Chase (Host)

So you're not against trying, you're just stating if we're trying, we need to really understand what that means Know what you're doing and don't expect anything to happen. Expectations. 

35:07 - Carla (Guest)

Absolutely. I can't even try on a dress at when I'm trying, when I'm at the store looking for clothes, I can't even say I'm trying this on. I just I say, I'm putting this on, I'm going to put this on and you know you can't try to get pregnant. You're either doing everything you possibly can at the right time and you know tracking your cycle if you have to or it just happens magically. 

35:34

You're either getting, yeah, exactly, and um. This leads me to something else that's really kind of fun to talk about. You know, we already know. We already know that trying is not the best option to take, and I'm going to use the airlines as an example. So when you buy a ticket, like your wife and you are going to go away when your kid's a little older, to like this beautiful tropical vacation alone, reconnect, right. You get a gorgeous hotel and you have a finite amount of time because only a certain amount of time somebody can watch your kids. 

36:08

You are not going to try to get to the airport to make your flight. You are going to set four alarms the night before. You're going to set four alarms the night before. You're going to not sleep anyway because you're worried that one of those alarms won't go off. You're going to get in the car and you're going to arrive at the airport hours earlier. You're going to allow for traffic and checking in and security. You are not going to try to make that flight because you have so much counting on the. You know, the hotel, the limited time, your beautiful time with your wife. So you're not going to try to get to the airport, you're going to get to the airport, okay, and the airlines don't say, hey, we're going to try to take off at 930. Can you try to be here so? 

36:52 - Chase (Host)

that's a good point. 

36:52 - Carla (Guest)

We know sometimes trying isn't an option and we're not given the option to try. You are here where that flight goes off. Now does the universe get in the way? Is a terrible car accident going to prevent you from getting to the airport? Possibly. Is there a mechanical failure going to happen on the airplane and you won't be taking off? Possibly, but you won't be primed to be in the best position to make that flight if you're not there. 

37:17 - Chase (Host)

You bring to light this amazing concept of perspective and I talk about this a lot on the show with so many other guests with a variety of topics. 

37:27

The world is how we make it out to be Our world, and the world is just a matter of our perspective of it and our circumstances around it. 

37:37

So if we think we're I'm trying to succeed in life, I'm trying to go shopping, I'm trying to go on vacation, I'm trying to do all these things like put yourself on the outside, looking in To your point, like airlines aren't trying to leave at this time, department stores aren't trying to maybe have sales, places aren't trying to offer you a time of their you know, the time of your life. 

38:02

We, we just assume that's the way that things are because that's the way that we are choosing to operate. So if we kind of take ourselves out of, like, our perspective of the world and look at how the world is, looking at us as a hey, carla, this is when we're leaving, this is when the sale is, this is when the vacation is, looking at us as a hey, carla, this is when we're leaving, this is when the sale is, this is when the vacation is, this is the price, this is the place, these are the things. So it's kind of wild to think about that. We would assume that the rest of the world is operating in a way that we are like. We are the ones trying, we are the ones doing or not doing. The rest of the world is or is not is not. 

38:34 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, your medicine bottle doesn't say tries to relieve your headache. It relieves your headache faster and better than anybody else. If you want something done, ask a busy person that's doing right. So you're right the outside looking in. I don't know if you ran into this person or not, but trying is also, you know, very tricky and it it gets into our, into some mental realms. So what's happening? 

39:07

When you say I'm trying to start a podcast, I'm trying to plan a vacation, oh, I'm trying to rebuild my dad's car, you know, whatever it is, you're telling someone. Your brain, it doesn't know the difference, by the way, between whether you're really doing it or not. It can't tell, it knows what you're saying. So it's firing dopamine, serotonin, all these feel-good endorphins. So you feel really good. Wow, it sounds so good, I feel really good. Wow, it sounds so good, I feel so good. Look at all these things I'm trying to do. But you can only fool yourself for so long. You know, have you ever gone to the party? A year later, you know the family gathering, and they're like well, how's that book you were writing? Well, I'm still trying to find an organization for the chapters. It's like oh yeah, yeah, they're never going to do that. 

39:55

Okay, that's what happens. We fool ourselves. We literally mentally trick ourselves into believing we're doing, when we are only trying. It's real science. 

40:06 - Chase (Host)

So, moving into a section of your work around getting unstuck, you identify procrastination and people pleasing as disguised forms of trying. How do you help someone recognize those patterns without judgment? And what's the first quote doable step they can take? 

40:24 - Carla (Guest)

Okay, so let's go with people pleasing. Okay, because this is a really big one. Women especially love this. When I talk publicly, we say, sure, I'll try to go, I'll try to do that for you, because we're so terrified of saying no. We are people pleasers. We don't want to look like the bad guy, so we'll offer to try, instead of just what's even better, the more honorable thing, the thing that that person deserves from us is you know what? 

40:57

I'm not going to come to your fundraiser. It's going to be. I know it's Friday night. I've had a rough week. It's really not something I'm interested in, but would you please invite me to the next one? No, we have such a hard time. I have an exercise in the book where you have to say no. This week you have to say no three times. It's terrifying sometimes, but it's so liberating. And what happens when you say, okay, I'll try to come to your fundraiser? You want to be kind? It's somebody at work. Now you have it out there. Now you've planted the seed in their mind that you may come. You're going to try to come, because they don't know that that means you're not coming. 

41:36

All right, so, what they're going to do is they're going to like, save a seat for you, order extra food. You know, wait, maybe hold up the meeting, or you know well, so-and-so is going to try to get here, you know. So now you're putting them in a weird position. But you go home a Friday night and you're like I said I would try to go, like I could go. God, I'm so, I'm so bad I'm, I'm not going. I really should be going and I'm not that tired and you know I could get dressed and get out there. 

42:06

And you're just sabotaging yourself, right, and then you end up not going and you feel bad about it. But if you would have said to that person I'm sorry, thank you so much, I'm not going to make it. You get to go home and have a great night and you don't think about it again. It's gone. So people pleasing that's a really good part of uh, of the stop trying method is really. I love saying no. I'm an expert at it Now. I absolutely love it. It's so freeing and liberating and I feel kinder to them. I feel kinder to myself when I say no. 

42:42 - Chase (Host)

It makes me think about when we say I'm trying, especially to someone else, if there's another party involved to this thing that we are going to try to do, or try to be, or try to work on. On our side of that equation, nothing has to happen in order for us, to quote, be trying, because we've said it, I'm going to try. And that's the ambiguity, that's the maybe, that's the one accountability, no accountability. 

43:02

But to your point especially, let's say we're going to meet up for an event, right? If I tell you, hey, I'm going to try to make it to your book launch next weekend, you are interpreting that. Most likely I think most people are interpreting it as I'm going to save you a seat, I'm going to loosely expect you to come, and then you can also even build out a whole potential future around that. Oh, if Chase is going to try to be there, then I know this other person that might want to meet him, or I'm going to try to arrange things in a certain way. When we put trying out there, the other side of that equation for the other person inevitably begins doing, and so then, when they're doing, meets our lack of even attempting. 

43:44 - Carla (Guest)

Very good point Is a complete letdown. 

43:48 - Chase (Host)

It's a complete letdown, and so that's just, I think, a really unique point for someone to think about, because we feel like if I say I'm going to try and haven't done anything, that doesn't mean nothing has been done already. It just means you haven't done any part of it. 

44:01 - Carla (Guest)

Exactly, exactly, and the beauty of this is that you can actually redirect someone's behavior to your benefit. 

44:10

Yes, this is the power of saying no, and it's the power of asking them to make a decision. So if someone says to you, I'll you know you are um, you want to hear from somebody, or you're counting on someone to be there at nine o'clock in the morning to help you set up an event, right, and that person says to you I'm going to try to be there at nine o'clock, you can stop them and say you know, will you be here at nine or won't you be here at nine? And you are forcing them to go. 

44:41 - Chase (Host)

This is the pushback of trying. 

44:43 - Carla (Guest)

Oh my gosh. And then when they say you know what, I'll be there at nine. This is what happens to them. They don't shoot off one extra email as they're walking out the door. They're driving home the night before and they're like, wow, I'm low on gas. I'm going to get it now, because I said to Chase I was going to be there at 9 am. 

45:00

Your actions change literally your choices and your actions. So you can hold somebody accountable. You know, if you have a medical test that you're worried about, what do you want to hear from the doctor? Okay, I'll try to call you back by the end of the day with the results, or I will call you back by five o'clock with your results. I've done it. I said to a doctor are you going to have my blood test back by the end of the day? Yes, we will. Will you promise to call me back before the end of the day? Because I know me and I'm going to freak out if you know I don't hear from you. And the minute they say to me look, I can't promise you that, then I know I just let it go and now I'm going to hear from them when I do. But if they say I'll try to call you back. You're sitting there going. Oh, they said they tried to call me back. Right, it's not a very nice thing to do. 

45:46 - Chase (Host)

We hold everyone else accountable when they're trying. 

45:56 - Carla (Guest)

But when we are trying, we hold no accountability. Exactly that's why we try. We do not want to be on the hook, but I think that's a really sad thing. It makes me sad, no matter what it is that we're trying to do. Unless you know, it's a very little thing. I'll try to not drink coffee today, you know? I mean, for me it's I'm not drinking coffee today and take that action. But you know little things. The semantics of things can go anywhere they want. 

46:18 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, this kind of reminds me of another part of your book around the roadmap metaphor. How trying is like quote driving without a GPS. What are the essential tools you recommend to help someone create their own GPS for a big goal? 

46:36 - Carla (Guest)

So, having a plan, so you can just say, well, let's pick, let's pick a goal. Um, I'm going to start painting, okay. So if you just blatantly say that I'm going to start start painting, right, what does that mean? There's no roadmap? Well, I'm going to start start painting, right, what does that mean? There's no roadmap? Well, I'm going to sign up for this painting class and then I'm going to buy the tools that I need to paint and then I'm going to join a group. You know you. 

47:08

You have to, like, write out the steps, have a mental map in your head of where you want to go. It's easy to say I'm going to try, you're just flailing, you're not even doing anything, you're not taking any definitive action. But to do something, you have to have steps to take to get it done. There's a reason. There's a ladder. You can't go from the bottom step all the way up to the top. You're going to fall and you're going to fail. You have to take those incremental steps to get to the top, to get to your goal. That's why we need a roadmap. 

47:43 - Chase (Host)

You talk a lot about, you offer a lot of practical exercises at the end of each chapter. If a listener, if an audience member right now on the podcast could only do one exercise, one of these exercises today, to break out of their trying loop, this perpetual habit of just I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm not doing, but I want to do, I want to be. Which one would you recommend and why? 

48:06 - Carla (Guest)

Well, okay, I would say buy my book. 

48:10 - Chase (Host)

The biggest one. It gives you all the exercises. Buy my book. 

48:13 - Carla (Guest)

And the reason for that is because the biggest thing we need to do is understand what it means when you are trying, because the minute you know what it means you won't want to do it anymore, the minute you know that you have been fooled and tricked into thinking you're doing. So become aware of what it means to try. And I have to say another one, just because you know that was like a little thing, I'd say one of the biggest reasons that we try is we're afraid of failure, fear, fear of everything, fear of what's going to happen. And I would say just start embracing that fear, because when you're feeling that fear, it means you're doing the minute, you're calm and not worrying about anything, you're in your comfort zone. So the second thing would be really just embrace that fear and get comfortable with it and go for it. 

49:09 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, it makes me think, um, maybe one of the best ways we could wrap our heads around. I'm a doer, not a trier, because I think with a lot of people stepping into that trying or stepping into the doing, it inevitably is met right away to your point of like fear of failure or fear of not knowing, like we kind of talked about before. 

49:26

So if maybe, if we first go, I am someone or I am doing this despite my fear or I am doing this through my fear, would you recommend kind of like snowballing that overcoming fear aspect as like the first aspect of doing to really give us the most benefit of the doubt and highest chance of success? Is it really fear and failure? That kind of goes more hand in hand with doing first. 

49:50 - Carla (Guest)

Fear and failure definitely go in hand in hand. There are a lot of tools that you can implement to get over that. Number one is I love the power of silence. So if you're afraid of what other people are going to think and judge you and hold you accountable, like the outside world or, you know, like if you're trying to lose weight, if you're someone that wants to lose weight, I wouldn't tell anyone because those people are going to give you their input. And sometimes it's very loving, like you know. 

50:21

Are you sure that you'll be able to do that? You know we have a lot of vacations coming up. Are you sure you want to start this diet now or not, whatever, and it may come from a loving place. And then there are the people that are going to give you their input because they're not coming from a loving place and they don't want you to succeed. Unfortunately, there are people like that. The power of silence when you are achieving a goal, you don't have time to talk about it. You're busy doing it and you are holding a lot of power. 

50:51

All that power is going to you. It's like your secret going to you. It's like your secret. I'll show you what you know six months from now, when I'm leaner and I have abs and I've been working out I never. There were people that had no idea I was writing a book, people very close to me. Not a clue, because you'll. You'll know when it's happening, you'll know when I get the deal. 

51:11 - Chase (Host)

Um, this, I think, is a such a great point. I mean, think about how many people maybe we follow online or social media and they go hey, I have a new book out. Hey, I launched a podcast. Hey, I bought a house. Hey, I did this. And we're like, oh, I didn't know you were doing that. Compared to a lot of people we see, maybe we're one of them and we go, oh, I'm trying to work on a book, I'm trying to go to the gym, I'm trying to do all these things and all we ever do is watch them, always try, and then maybe we get to a point a month, six months, a year later and like, hey, here's my book. Hey, turn to my manuscript. 

51:42

Hey, I lost 10 pounds and we're like it almost kind of like the the appeal is gone because we've just been watching you try, try, try, try. So much Like, ok, you did it Cool, but like I've kind of like lost interest in a way, not to like negate anybody's attempt. 

52:00 - Carla (Guest)

They've watered it down. 

52:00 - Chase (Host)

I guess it's just watering it down, but think about how much weight we hold into people like wow, like wow, you dropped a book. Wow, congratulations, you did it. Like it's almost like like wow. I think it holds so much more weight to the people around you, or like to your audience or to your clients, when it's just like here. Here's what I did versus what here's what I've been trying to do exactly doing. 

52:21 - Carla (Guest)

Doing you're done. You're quiet about it. Um, mel robbins actually did my front cover endorsement for this all that I saw, that which you know, there's a great lesson here. 

52:30

There's so many lessons here. I already I know what my next book's going to be, because that whole experience had to do with where I'm going to go next. But when I reached out to Mel, I'd only met her one time and it was in 2016 at an event and I told her I have this great idea. And she said to me I'll write the forward to your book. This is before Mel. Was Mel that she is now Now cut to. 

52:58

We're into 2023, when I was writing my proposal for the book and I reached out to her and I said remember me, I'm the girl who blah, blah, blah. And she said you know, I can't write the forward to your book, but I can give you front cover endorsement and I'm like amazing, right. But she said you know, you can't self-publish it, you have to get a major publishing deal. And you know what my brain did in that moment Done, no, problem. 

53:29

I never even thought I'm going to try to get a publishing deal, a major publisher. I'm like Mel Robbins said she's going to do this. So I went from here this is what I do to the result. And it happened because if I was half hearting it and afraid I probably wouldn't have even asked her or called her eight years later to say hey, remember me, do you remember me? Most people be like she won't remember me. She'll never pick up the call. You know you just have to do, you have to jump in. You're never going to know if you're trying, if you're stuck in that mode. So I don't remember your question, but it got me there. 

54:01 - Chase (Host)

It reminds me of this quote, this other quote I had pulled up from Seneca when I'm a big stoic philosophy guy. 

54:07

And he says quote it is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. For me it kind of just rings true, this aspect of, for me it kind of just rings true, this aspect of courage. We're kind of just talking about, you know, the fear of failure and all this stuff and really it takes becoming a doer, becoming someone who sits with courage and sits with failure, to really become a doer and to be the first big obstacle. I think. 

54:34 - Carla (Guest)

I deal with it every day. I deal with it every single day. I am now putting myself in the forefront. I'm doing things every day that I've never done and I'm terrified. I am terrified. 

54:46

I'm not a public persona. I am not used to firing off. You know scientific information and I'm not an expert. I haven't been a doctor or you know a public personality. So every day I have to jump off that cliff of. 

55:03

I'm going for it and I have failed a few times. I've made some mistakes, but okay, boom, I'm not supposed to know everything out of the gate. I'm I'm really good at forgiving myself and allowing myself to grow and it's okay, I am great with failure. Now, sure, I'm going to do it and if I fail, okay, sorry, you know I'm going to get up and I'm going to dust my knees off and I'm going to learn the lesson and I'm going to do it again. 

55:30

But the people out there that are trying and then maybe they fail, like fail hard, they fail and fall hard. They're like, oh, okay, I tried. I'm like I'm not going to do this anymore. You know, it's a different mindset. So I'm going, I'm going to do this a hundred percent. I'm going to go as far as I can. It's going to be what it is. I'm passionate and I just will hope that people find a connection to this message and it can change their life. You know, as it has guided me in my life and allowed me to become, you know, have a 27 year marriage, raise two beautiful children who are launched. I've had great careers and it's a doing mindset. I believe that's really helped me in every one of those endeavors. 

56:13 - Chase (Host)

Clearly. And the mindset component is what stood out to me most through all of this and which is why we're here, you know, to help me and my audience grab hold of your approach to life and your unique mindset to help us move forward. So I have to ask as my last question Carla, ever forward, those two words to kind of wrap your vision and your words, your approach to life, of doing, not trying through our lens here, of living a life ever forward, what does that mean to you? Ever for those two words. 

56:42 - Carla (Guest)

Well, what it means to me is to really be aware that life, you know it is finite, so we have to make use of that time and keep pushing ourselves forward. You know we don't have forever. So when you're in that moment, push yourself ever forward and do the things that are scary, you know, dive into life and then, along with that, it's so important to me is inspiring other people along the way Ever forward. Bring people with you, share the lessons that you learn, share your joy, share, share the lessons that you learn, share your joy, share all the things that move you and inspire you, so I think we can move forward. We'll be pushed much greater, with more force, when we're sharing our, our talent and our love and um. So for me, that's what living a life ever forward means. 

57:35 - Chase (Host)

Thank you. There's never a right or wrong interpretation. I'm always curious to get my guests' idea of the mantra over here on the show through their lens. So where can my audience go to connect with you, learn more about the book? Where are you hanging on online? Or what do they do to stop trying with you? 

57:53 - Carla (Guest)

Okay, well, stop trying right now. 

57:55

Well, also I want to say really become aware of how many times you say that word and listen for it in other people. You know there's so many ways we can get over this and it's in the book. So the book comes out September 23rd. It's already available for pre-order Amazon, Barnes and Noble anywhere books are sold. I do a really fun Instagram every couple of days. I'm doing a really positive, daily, motivational thing TikTok, and my website is CarlaAndrasekcom or stop-tryingcom Easy to remember, stop-tryingcom, and if you sign up, you will get a tri-baby test. 

58:34 - Chase (Host)

A tri-baby test. 

58:35 - Carla (Guest)

Yeah, there is a name for people that try all the time. They're called try babies, right? So, yeah, I do hope you'll just get this book and read it and begin your journey of not trying and doing. 

58:48 - Chase (Host)

Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. It will all be down in the video description box in the podcast show notes One Stop Shop for connecting with Carla checking out the book and her content. So check the episode resources and video description for that as well. And actually I just thought of one question I wanted to ask you. I'm going to go back and kind of like plug it in. 

59:07

I wanted to ask you where do you think is an area of most people's lives where they are actively trying and not doing and don't realize it? Because I feel like trying in some aspects, or a lot of aspects, is very conscious, like we've been talking about I'm going to try to do this, I'm going to try not to do that. But where maybe is the subconscious trying that we should go to first and unlearn and go? Oh, I didn't even know I was trying. I need to go actively do. 

59:37 - Carla (Guest)

It could be. You know our nutrition, we have to eat every day. You know trying to eat better. So it sounds really good. And every day you wake up, well, I'm going to try to eat healthier. Today, I'm going to try to drink more water, I'm going to try to eat more vegetables. You know, I think that could be a very predominant thing. But there's talk to the hundreds of millions of people that are trying to quit smoking. Right, that's a huge one. The weight loss, trying to lose weight. So there's too many. It's too many to pick one. But, um, I would say you just just to stop yourself and ask yourself what is it that I'm trying to do and why am I choosing to try instead of do it Get really introspective, like what is that one thing in my life where I'm really hanging out in the trying realm and why am I doing that and how do I get out of that? 

01:00:31 - Chase (Host)

Okay, so Perfect. 

01:00:32 - Carla (Guest)

All right, thank you that. 

01:00:32 - Chase (Host)

Okay, so perfect, all right. Thank you For more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwardradio.com