00:00 - Chase (Host)

The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Olivia (Guest)

It was right in front of me this whole time and that's what I think is so funny about the journey is that when we're kids we know exactly who we are Like. We come into this world knowing and remembering and like why we came here and all the things, and then we slowly kind of get it conditioned out of us and it's just a journey of remembering. But I think for us we get to a certain age and we're like I've aged out of play but we're missing out on so many of these. We don't even allow ourselves to play, often in our work or in our work days. Imagine if we approached our work with a more playful approach, how much more quote productive we'd be versus forcing ourselves to be productive each day.

00:38 - Chase (Host)

I think what you consciously chose to do, many people wish they could do or struggle to do, and that's honor this, this gut feeling, this knowing of not so much that what I'm doing right now is wrong because it wasn't for you, but it's just it's time for a change. And you actually gave that version of you, that inner child, the floor to fully explore that. And now look what you've created from it.

01:06 - Olivia (Guest)

Hi, I'm Olivia Amatrano, clinical herbalist and founder of Organic Olivia, as well as a recording artist under the name OLivia. I am back on Ever Forward Radio and I'm so excited to be here.

01:24 - Chase (Host)

Well, we're here, we're back. We're back. Last time it was Organic Olivia, now it's Olivia.

01:29 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, it's Olivia Amitrano who is many people.

01:33 - Chase (Host)

I like the Spotify. I look at the OLivia. I love the Olivia, the OLivia, olivia.

01:39 - Olivia (Guest)

Because everyone in my music life calls me O, and then my company is OO, so it's really interesting. I'm like O, and then, like everyone in my, and then my company is oh, oh, so it's it's really interesting. I'm like oh, and then oh, oh. And then Olivia Amitrana, like the weirdo, is somewhere in the middle.

01:51 - Chase (Host)

But it's like all these different identities that so you're like uh, I feel like the next evolution to James Bond. You're just like double oh.

01:59 - Olivia (Guest)

Oh, that's all the things I don't know it's confusing, it's a branding nightmare, but I really appreciate you and your show because it's it's kind of like this marker in time that I now have of me sort of discovering this in real time and being able to tell the story as it's unfolding and kind of make sense of it myself.

02:15 - Chase (Host)

Well, I mean, that's what living a life ever forward is all about. You know, the theme, the through line here of the show is to bring on people of you know, I don't know if we really fully realized that at the time, but this is a snapshot of who I am, where I am, what I'm doing for myself and for others, and how I'm putting it out there and how I'm sharing it. So we got to see that snapshot with you of that point in time of you, for you and for others. And now, a year and a half later, that episode 784 came out March 2024.

02:44 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

02:45 - Chase (Host)

And just I don't know what the title of this episode is going to be now, but that was herbalism for digestion, energy and mood. Then we kind of snuck in the last part how art therapy can boost creativity and navigating the hard truths of attachment and relationships.

03:00 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

03:02 - Chase (Host)

So there was some foreshadowing there was multiple things. There was hey, take these herbs for digestion and health and wellness. Also thinking about painting. Yeah, you know.

03:10 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

03:10 - Chase (Host)

What happened in the middle of that conversation. You got to tune in and check it out.

03:14 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, are you saying like what happened? Are you asking more? Well, we know what happened now.

03:17 - Chase (Host)

Well, we're going to learn, yeah it, and you have been able to one. I want to give you credit and, just you know, accolade, I think what you consciously chose to do many people wish they could do or struggle to do. And that's honor this, this gut feeling, this knowing of not so much that what I'm doing right now is wrong because it wasn't for you, but it's just it's time for a change. I'm feeling this calling this, pulling this intuitive shout out of hey, try this or hey, come back to this. And you actually gave that version of you, that inner child, the floor to fully explore that. And now look what you've created from it.

04:01 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, and I'd like that. That's what Ever Forward's about. That's such a good callback because it's. I think I was at that point where I was like I, my entire ethos is to keep growing and to keep pushing myself almost to a detriment sometimes. But I think that we're very much those kinds of people and it did get to a point where there was some fatigue even I think everyone feels the fatigue in the wellness industry as a whole where I was like, hey, I don't know how much more I have to share here and I want to be able to be of maximum service, and so if I need to get uncomfortable all over again and figure out the next thing in here to be able to share the next thing out here, I need to go do that because I got to keep pushing forward for myself and for others.

04:41 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, yeah, and with that I mean comes a whole lot of things, a whole myriad of things, right With personal life, professional life. We live in the content day and age. You know whether you're doing it for a brand or for just your life, we all are putting stuff out there. And that really shifted a lot in your content. And Organic Olivia still lives. But Olivia Amatrano, there was a very noticeable shift in what you're doing, what you're saying, what speaks to you and therefore what you are helping share with others. And there was this one post in particular I want to reference, quote this is not the last thing you will create. When you heard that from a friend, what shifted inside of you?

05:19 - Olivia (Guest)

You know, when you, when any of us, experience some massive kind of success in any area of our lives, we can almost get so attached to the success of that thing or the identity of the person that we became to experience that success that we it almost says the opposite and gives you a bit of a scarcity mindset of. I did this once, and it's so rare that I was able to do this that I better hold on to it forever because I'm never going to be able to do it again. And especially for me, coming from my background, coming the way that I grew up my parents living very much paycheck to paycheck and just like grinding and hustling I was like this doesn't happen to people like me, so I better just be a good girl and be organic Olivia for the rest of my life. And then I was like I actually can't do that, unfortunately, for myself, because life would be a lot easier if I could. And so when my friend said you know, this is not the last thing you'll create, it reminded me that success separate.

06:17

I was the person who created that thing that was successful, so I am the person who can do it again. It's like that thing is not actually me. It's something I did, but it's not me. And it gave me my agency back and it gave me a little bit of a sense of belief in myself and just freedom of like, oh actually, what if I flipped it and said, well, what could I do next Versus? I'll never do something like this again. It was my one shot and it was a fluke.

06:40 - Chase (Host)

Why do you think the season of life that you were in at that time was the perfect amalgamation of where you needed to be to hear that and to actually take action on it? Because I would be willing to bet I mean, we'll never know if that landed on you a year ago or a year before that, it might not have had the same or anywhere close to any type of change in your life.

07:07 - Olivia (Guest)

You know it was during such a tender time for me. I think we spoke about this a bit on our first episode. That was during 2022, when I had this year of experimentation of all my vices.

07:20 - Chase (Host)

We all have our preferred daily habits, our rituals, our very own personal wellness methodology, but how do you actually know what you're doing is working for you and actually contributing towards your personal health and wellness goals? You eat clean, you train hard, you take the right supplements, but without blood work? Honestly, you're probably just guessing. Honestly, you're probably just guessing. If you're serious about your health performance, even longevity, getting your labs done, I believe, at least once a year, is a non-negotiable. Personally, I get them twice a year and that is why I use love and have partnered with Joy and Blokes, this incredible telemedicine company. They make it simple to test key biomarkers like hormones, metabolic function, inflammation, vitamin levels, you name it. You get a clear, crystal clear picture of what's actually going on under the hood and where you need to pivot and get this.

08:17

When you actually go to joyandblokescom slash chase that's J? O-l-o-k-e-scom slash chase or check out just use code chase You're going to get 50% off. That's half off any one diagnostic lab of your choice. Even better, you don't have to leave your house. In select cities, you can even schedule an in-home blood draw and get your health snapshot right from the comfort of your robe in your living room. It doesn't get any easier than that. Please take it from health coach Chase over here. Get your labs at least once a year and save some money at the same time, linked for you as always in the show notes today under episode resources. So if you're ready to stop guessing and start measuring, head to joyandblokescom, slash chase and take control of your health today.

09:11 - Olivia (Guest)

And, yeah, I credit that year for everything that I am and have now and the courage that I've been able to have and risks I've been able to take, because I think a lot of the vices that I was relying on ultimately were tamping down that voice that was like hey, there's more here, what about this? I actually am craving this. So, during that year where I had the courage to stop smoking weed, had the courage to cut out, you know, excess sugar and hyperpalatable foods, cut out caffeine, all of these things that were kind of like stopping that inner voice from coming through clearly, um, that I also decided to solo travel that year and like, get to know myself. It was the year of me. It was like an eat, pray, love kind of year. And she said that to me while I was solo traveling and I think because I remember sitting in my hotel room when I was on the phone with her and I was kind of upset, I was kind of crying. She's like why are you crying?

10:03

And I was like because I I'm kind of grieving that there's more to me and I I didn't realize because during that solo trip, because I was in a new place as just myself and also as a girl who wasn't hiding behind all these vices, I realized as I was meeting new people, I was seeing different sides of me, that those new people, or no experiences, were bringing out and I was like, oh my God, I like miss her and I don't even know her.

10:28

And there was this, this feeling inside of me like, oh, I haven't even scratched the surface and that's that's so sad. And so how, how dare I think that this is the last thing I'll be or create? That's not true at all. I started to have the proof in the pudding through the solo traveling and through the self-exploration, the painful kind of like ripping of the comfort blankets to say no, there's a lot more in here. And I would be doing myself a disservice and I would be doing my family, my mother, everyone who's believed in my gifts as a human being a disservice by not going to the edge with all of it.

11:00 - Chase (Host)

What do you think was so unique about the solo travel experience that allowed that to be the right container? And I'm kind of repeating the same question as last time, but I guess we're just getting the next filter down but I love solo travel.

11:14 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes.

11:19 - Chase (Host)

I know what it has done for me, who has never experienced a weekend alone versus a year traveling. What is it about that experience that allowed you to hear that voice, to listen? To it and again to act on it.

11:31 - Olivia (Guest)

I think the phrase self-trust comes to mind, because there are so many. You know, self-trust isn't built in a day and also self-trust can't really be built through huge micro experience. I mean, sorry, self-trust can't also really be built through huge macro experiences either, because otherwise that would be a little bit too stressful. We can't really be like going into battle every day and, like you know, I have a huge life event each day and that's building stress, uh, trust. It's almost like that would be pushing us a bit too far. I think self trust is built in micro actions and micro experiences, whether it's keeping your promise to yourself each day, to, you know, make your bed or go to the gym or go for a walk Like that's how you start to mother your inner child if you will, consciously and subconsciously.

12:13 - Chase (Host)

there are things that we do that we're aware of and things that we have, maybe, in the back of our mind, promise that we're going to do. So it's kind of becoming part of our programming, so to speak.

12:23 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes and the next thing.

12:24 - Chase (Host)

You know, it's habitual, it's what you do, who you are, and you don't even realize it. But yet you made a choice, yes, somewhere back in the day no-transcript, or it's like it's this video game of you and yourself.

12:58 - Olivia (Guest)

And every time you like, get a coin of like, happy self-trust and like oh, I really listened to me, I heard my own voice again, like I liked that, I like her. It just unfolded this, this whole new thing, and and self-trust is then what ultimately led me to be able to better myself all over again in that big macro way.

13:17 - Chase (Host)

You wrote, quote when, in the midst of a major life shift, we get so caught up in the discomfort of change that we forget this is not the end, how do you personally?

13:31 - Olivia (Guest)

recognize when you're in a season of ending versus a season of beginning. I think a lot of things start to end around you in a reflection of that season and you kind of get all these like signs are not mystical signs, they're like actual signs. I always say like when you're, when your current apartment or like the place that you live is like ready for you to go. It's like the fridge starts breaking and the dishwasher that's so true, that's so relatable.

13:52

That's so true, it's exactly and it's like the space is actually telling you, like it's time for you to go fly, like you're good, you're done, um, and so I think your life does that and of a sudden the things that used to bring you so much joy and pleasure just don't. They're not as fulfilling anymore. And it's not that there's something wrong with you. It's that like your heart is actually leading you somewhere else. It's not a flaw.

14:17

Initially you may feel very disappointed in yourself if you can't make yourself do and get excited about the things and routines that you once did, and it can be very confusing, but that's one way I think that you know.

14:27

Even certain relationships and friendships of that era, of that person that you were functioning as when you did fit in your old life start to end. And it's almost like this. This entire way of being ends because I thinking back to the person that I was, when I was willing to kind of stay in a situation that wasn't for my highest good. I had to people please a lot or I had to do X, y and Z, and once that way of being actually stopped and I started to choose the riskier but exciting things, started to take those steps forward, all of the conditions and relationships in my life that thrived off of me being that way also began to fall away. So there's a lot of like grief and endings and loss initially at first, but it's because you're actually kind of getting stronger and you're resonating with different people and different experiences.

15:17 - Chase (Host)

What practices helped you and currently help you move through the fear of the unknown without rushing to solve it?

15:26 - Olivia (Guest)

I've been talking about this a lot lately and thinking about it. It's so funny how, for a long time, I relied on my wellness practices, like breath work, or even my like cherished herbs, to help me have so much less fear or anxieties or fear or anxiety around all of these things that I was nervous about doing, and those things help, but I really realized that nothing helps you be less afraid of something like doing it, you just have. It's like all the breath work in the world does not pause, rewind, go back everybody.

16:01 - Chase (Host)

You let that sink in a little bit more. You hear that twice.

16:03 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes, when you prove to yourself that I can do it. Not only can I show up, but I can do it, even if I do it at a beginner level or I do it poorly or whatever, but I did it. I rose to the challenge and I showed up for myself the level of confidence and nervous system regulation and resilience and like muscle that you build in your mind, like it's. We focus all this energy on trying to tamp down the anxiety beforehand, but it's like what about the strength response after?

16:37 - Chase (Host)

I got everything I need out of this already. I think we're good, and this is again a testament to, to you. But you know, anyone who chooses to do what you just said you can't not, I think, have the same or similar revelations. Uh, it's, you know. Once you kind of know how the sausage is made, so to speak. You know, but, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's palpable. It's palpable that you have made conscious choices to to lean into the discomfort and to show yourself, to make a promise to yourself that every day, even if it's not beautiful, even if it's not perfect, and it won't be that I can get the reps in to turn and go. Oh wow, that got a little bit easier, that got a little bit easier. I'm getting closer and closer and closer to this person that I know I want to be, that I can be, not that I should be, I don't like to use should, but that's been there all along. I'm not just creating the space for her to come out.

17:29 - Olivia (Guest)

All along, and it's not that I'm not afraid, I'm afraid every day. I've never actually stopped being scared. So all of my efforts that would always go into making myself less scared. And if I just take the exact perfect supplement stack for this for my nervous system, and if I just do, it almost made me develop superstitions.

17:48 - Chase (Host)

How much Ashwagandha do I need today to get to the sweet spot?

17:50 - Olivia (Guest)

Literally, I was like okay, I'm not going to be like like the first day that I wrote a really good song, I had done 35 minutes of breath work and I had said this exact prayer and I wore the colors pink and blue and I'm telling you, I developed a superstition around wearing pink and blue all the time to the studio.

18:04 - Chase (Host)

Is all the studio footage going to be pink and blue?

18:06 - Olivia (Guest)

I mean, there's like certain elements of it.

18:08

There's something cute about it. I see it as like balancing my masculine skills that I've learned as a CEO and my feminine artistic side. But I uh, it can get a little superstitious when it's like no, no, no, like those things are tools, great, but it's you who did that. And people who do great things, people who go and write great songs or change the world or you know, step on and give a great speech, they probably got two hours of sleep last night and smoked a pack of cigarettes, like you don't. It's not, it's not the external routines all the time. It's like the balance right, yeah, but it's not that. It's you and it's you showing up fully and earnestly and scared. You have to just show up scared. I was scared coming here today. I'm scared every time I record a podcast, but I just do it, and maybe I'm a masochist, but you just have to do it. And then afterwards you're like, oh yeah, I did that Cool.

18:58 - Chase (Host)

Welcome back Olivia, Everyone's favorite masochist guest. That's what everyone's thinking for sure right now.

19:02 - Olivia (Guest)

That's what a producer called me yesterday.

19:04 - Chase (Host)

Oh, no, well, nevermind. So we talked a little bit about this inner child connection and you know that was also the tail end of our last conversation, of what you were allowing, who you were allowing to kind of rise to the top again. So when we go through change, the inner child often comes forward, or maybe even backwards. I think, on the precipice of change, the inner child has been there for a while and it causes that change. We just finally, to your point, listen to it, take action on it. So it's seeking safety, it's seeking validation or even certainty. How have you noticed your inner child showing up during times of uncertainty or big shifts?

19:46 - Olivia (Guest)

You know, I see my inner child as this guiding light in a way, like I take care of her, but she also has a wisdom that I just don't have, and so sometimes, like she knows more than I do, and it's not like I have to like coddle her or whatever. Sometimes I just have to let her play and let her lead and be like as bossy as she was when I was a kid and kind of have that like moxie that she had. But to your point, I don't know if necessarily your inner child comes up during when you're on the precipice of change, but I think that, as like you said, we gradually in our lives shed more and more of our conditioning and our not self and we become more and more of who we've always been and perhaps rediscover our wholeness. That integrating our inner child and what she or he has to say or share with us, or their gifts especially, as well as taking care of them and making sure that they're nurtured and nourished and all the things, is part of unlocking our highest potential, because to be at your maximum expression of a human, you need to not only be able to access your inner manager.

20:54

You know the part of you that comes out in the boardroom and you know, as a CEO, when you have to hire or fire or talk about a performance review or a benefits package, right, that's one part of you that needs to be present. But then also, when you are in the music studio, writing, you have to be able to have your inner child come out and be willing to play and look silly and stupid, because sometimes the best mistakes or ideas come from that sense of play. So if I only brought my inner manager to the studio, and for a long time, that's how I lived my life. I just was the manager all the time. I was very rigid. I never really had fun. I'm still learning right now how to have fun. This is maybe the first year in my life where I can say that I have um love that for you. Yeah, yeah, like I was great to hear.

21:41

I was just 80, at 15, you know, and and a lot of that was this trauma of like shutting that inner child down very young to survive, and so this is like my journey back to wholeness. So it's not that I'm fully letting her leave, I'm just integrating her. I'm being like, oh, it's safe for her to be a part of me too. I don't have to perform all the time.

22:02 - Chase (Host)

Hey Everford family. I need to take a second and get pretty real, honestly, and share something deeply personal that, if you've been following me on social media, you've probably heard me talk about, but I don't think I've really addressed it head on here on the podcast. And as much as I love talking about high performance, longevity, clarity, focus, all the things I discuss here on the show with amazing guests that help me and you live a life ever forward I also know what it's like to carry a burden, to carry heavy stress, to feel that tightness in your chest when the quote shoulds stack up. The day gets away from you and you just feel like you can never catch up. Or maybe your past is catching up with you in a way that you're not ready for Waking up in the middle of the night, anxiety and stress keeping you from performing the way that you want, being present with your loved ones, your family, your coworkers, yes, even moments like me personally, in sheer and utter fear and panic. I, for the past two years, have been struggling with just sudden onset, debilitating, crippling panic attacks. Any of this sound familiar? Well, unfortunately, if this is your day, I feel for you. I'm truly sorry that you have to navigate this, but I want to share something that has really added immense value for me to get me back to just baseline.

23:19

I've been getting back to my daily habits. I've been in therapy pretty regularly for the past two years, but I sometimes need a little extra help and so I'm reaching for key supplementation, and one of those things is from Cured Nutrition. Today sponsor these full spectrum hemp extract gel caps, meaning that they just include CBD in a very, very teeny, tiny microdose for this little entourage effect of THC that helps support your stress response system. And I'm gonna be totally honest when I started taking the Calm Caps, I was so surprised at how quickly not only they worked but became part of my baseline Just one to two capsules, depending on my calendar, my workload, my stress load, how it looks for the day or how I'm feeling in that moment. If I need more, then those triggers when they hit me meetings, running late, deadlines, getting home to put my son to bed, or just something from my past rearing its ugly head man. These things help me navigate it like nothing else, and for me it's really the big win here is in the sustainable baseline.

24:19

It's not about masking things or feeling zonked out or taking something that's going to be habit forming. No, for me, it's about giving my nervous system a break and being able to reclaim the space to respond from a calm place of being, instead of reacting, trying to just cut through the stress and anxiety. That means less midday wired but tired, fewer nights waking up spinning, and more of the kind of grounded clarity that helps me move on with my day, to move ever forward. So if any of this rings true for you and you would like to maybe try something that has worked for me in this capacity of just navigating daily stressors and anxiety, you want something that actually works, is clean, fits into your routine, supports both mind and body. I really think this one could work this one's for you.

25:05

So go check out the Calm Caps at curednutritioncom. Slash ever forward and you're actually going to be able to get 20% off of the gel caps or any one of their other amazing all natural performance products. I love Cured. They have so many great things that really help tap into that emotional state I'm striving after and really get me back to my center. So if this sounds like it might be of interest to you, I would encourage you to check it out and unlock a baseline of calm that you have always wanted and honestly deserve. Curednutritioncom, slash, everford You're going to get 20% off your entire purchase. We've been just saying inner child right, and you've definitely been sharing with us what that looks like, feels like, for you.

25:46 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

25:47 - Chase (Host)

What do you think inner child looks like, feels like for people out there that don't have this kind of same clear understanding of oh there she is, oh there he is. What are maybe some telltale signs that that's your inner child trying to shine through, but we don't yet know what's going on?

26:07 - Olivia (Guest)

Well, first off, just to give a little background, the concept of the inner child or any kind of part of you when I talk about the inner manager, or even our inner teenager, or our inner I don't know what other archetypes people use like firefighter, the part of you that like reacts when you're under an immense amount of stress and maybe doesn't act in highest integrity but is just trying to keep you safe somehow.

26:30

All of these parts are from a concept of psychology called internal family systems, where it's one way of just understanding your own psyche and it's like an exercise or a lens in which to look at the different sides of you.

26:43

So I think that we can recognize our inner child, the yin and the yang of it, by saying sometimes our deepest wounding and our patterning, like why we might have a consistent fear of being abandoned in our adult relationships, will often go back to a wounding that our inner child had at age, let's say, seven or eight. And sometimes you can access that when you're in a fight with your partner and you're being almost unreasonably unreasonably on the outside, but reasonably when you dig deeper, sensitive to them, not witnessing you or seeing your needs or whatever because you have such a deep abandonment wound from X age. And then when you go back and say, okay, I'm really flipping out at my partner right now and I'm so emotionally activated that there must be a part of me that's asking to be seen right now. It's like that emotional activation. That's when you kind of tune in and say like how old does that part feel right now? Or how old do I feel when I'm feeling this immense, like I want to throw a tantrum about what my partner is doing.

27:43 - Chase (Host)

Or how far back can I trace this feeling, this emotion, this memory?

27:47 - Olivia (Guest)

When was the first time I felt this. I have a really deep wounding around getting in trouble. I'm always that's like one of my greatest fears is getting in trouble and to the point it just comes out in really funny ways Like, how Like.

28:02 - Chase (Host)

Would you be willing to share one?

28:03 - Olivia (Guest)

Sure, I don't like to break rules to a point where you know, sometimes in life you kind of have to. Or let's say, one time I was filming in an Airbnb, we were podcasting and I guess the neighbors kind of saw and so the Airbnb host was like you're not allowed to do that, you need a permit for this, yada yada. But you know, when you're broke and starting a podcast, sometimes you got to film in an Airbnb. So we made it work, we closed the blinds and just started to do audio instead of video and whatever. But the whole time I was like checking out the window and all the things and I was so paranoid because-.

28:34 - Chase (Host)

Now I know I'm quote in the wrong.

28:37 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, now I'm bad, I have this wounding of I'm bad, getting in trouble and it crazy a this is an example of how little things, to our little inner child, just can really create patterns. It was that when I was in pre-K, my first day of pre-K, I had shown up pre-K. I had shown up. We had art class.

28:57

Okay, or art art time and I I was in a teal dress and I took black paint and I started splatter painting and I was like this is so fun because I love to break not break rules but like I love to paint outside the box. So I'm splatter painting and you know, I'm a pre-K kid, I don't know that it's bad.

29:15 - Chase (Host)

I guess four yeah.

29:17 - Olivia (Guest)

And I don't know that it's bad that I'm getting paint everywhere. Kids don't think about being neat and clean, we don't know. So I'm getting paint everywhere. I get it all over my dress. The teacher comes over, flips out, calls my mom. Immediately. My mom comes to pick me up from my first day of pre-K. I'm scolded, I go home. I remember I literally have a vision of that dress sitting in my closet. I never wore that dress again and every day from then on I developed a really severe phobia of the PA system, the morning announcements, because every morning I was I would relate that to getting called in.

29:48

I would say, oh, I'm going to. I'm going to get called on the morning announcements that I'm in trouble, and it's that one little experience of me. Just splatter painting in pre-K what a horrible pre-K teacher.

30:00 - Chase (Host)

Come on, I made a mess. You're old, playing with paint.

30:03 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, come on, it's a four-year-old playing with paint. Yeah, yeah, I mean, this was the 90s, you know, we were a little harsher back then.

30:08 - Chase (Host)

That's true, that's true, that's true.

30:09 - Olivia (Guest)

So whatever I mean it could have been worse, but not to say that I'm like this poor pre-K victim that was splatter painting, but it's like your mind can remember, your heart can remember things like that stayed with me. So now I do a lot of work around. It's okay to be messy, it's okay to like all these things, because I know that my inner child has that experience and, no matter how much I intellectualize that I'm safe and I'm not in trouble and whatever, there's a body memory there. So I just kind of have to remember that when my body's getting activated and whatever it's like I don't like when people are mad at me because I feel like I'm getting in trouble, all the things. That's when I go and kind of nurture that part.

30:44

That's wild, but that inner child also has your gifts. She doesn't only, or he doesn't only, have your wounding, they have your greatest gifts. So it's like this wild thing to have to nurture the parts where they didn't have someone to take care of them or whatever Needed the wounding cleared and then to also be able to access what they have for you.

31:06 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, it's crazy thank you for sharing that thank you.

31:10

Traumatizing no, it's crazy I mean I hate, to say the word crazy, but it's wild. I mean, once you start unpacking these things of especially getting into the world of play and curiosity and wonder it, uh it takes you to some really interesting places. Yeah, and I wonder for you through the lens uh, you know what the roles of play and curiosity and wonder where does it take you? Does it take you to imagination or does it take you to a place where, oh no, this feels familiar. So therefore it kind of brings you back to the inner child. But now, finally, you've allowed these things that inner child would want to have to come out like play and curiosity and wonder.

31:49 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, I think play is our true nature and you know, when we look at even studies of the brain and how we learn, when you learn through playing, I think that memory I don't even have the statistic, we can ask ChatGPT, but there's something about that memory is stored in your brain five times better than if you were learning through memorization or a book. Whenever you learn through, because play is attached to emotion, wonder, awe. Those emotions help to solidify those memories and the act of play itself is like this immense brain tool.

32:21 - Chase (Host)

It's very tactile.

32:23 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

32:25 - Chase (Host)

So, whatever, if we're doing something, it's going to imprint more than just trying to recall a fact, right, exactly.

32:30 - Olivia (Guest)

But there's just this, this power separately, because it's so natural to humans and animals and we're animals, right, you look at the nature of an animal and play is such an important part of their daily activity.

32:43

You know, even as adults they're playing. You know, roughhousing with each other, all these things that never stops for them. But I think for us, we get to a certain age and we're like I've aged out of play but we're missing out on so many of these. We don't even allow ourselves to play often in our work or in our work days. Imagine if we approached our work with a more playful approach how much more quote productive we'd be versus forcing ourselves to be productive each day. So I think play is a way of life and is an ongoing practice of also integration, because it's something that we need to remember, something we need to give ourselves permission to do. It's something that we need to almost unlearn that it's like not civilized to do it or that it's not the right way. You know, we're in such a right brain sort of society now where everything is so systematized and everything is meant to be as convenient and efficient as possible, and so there's not as much room for that play and it's it's missing for a lot of us.

33:44 - Chase (Host)

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34:13

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34:37

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35:55

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36:20 - Olivia (Guest)

Play doesn't lead you to an end result right away. Play leads you to play and it's through the experience of play, and like the relaxation and the opening of your mind and the awareness that play unlocks, that you are able to eventually put the pieces together and have an end result. Initially, I would go in there with my rigid CEO mindset because I'm used to business and I think that you know like, looking back at that experience no matter how silly in pre-K obviously a lot more traumatizing things happened to me in my life than that. But it's funny how the brain holds to certain things Like- that clearly mattered.

36:58

That matters. So we never know when we can't judge ourselves on what matters and what doesn't. But I think it's almost like from that day on I was like great, I will be perfect for the rest of my life and I will. I will color inside the lines and I will make sure that I never get in trouble again and I will please every adult around me. And my family system really reinforced that too. You know, it was like I had to perform well academically everything to make my parents happy and I just became so rigid that it's no wonder I started a company at 1920 and went on to build an herbal supplement empire and do everything so rigidly in business, and I was also praised for that. So I was always so, without even knowing it, outcome focused and and my a lot of my worth and safety in life came from those outcomes that I knew how to consistently achieve, because I knew how to activate the manager, and my manager works hard and she's a freaking genius. But the rest of me suffers when it's just her right. And for a long time she was the only player in the ring.

37:59

And then, when I started to challenge myself to write music and go into a creative. I let myself do the one thing that I always wanted to do, but was like that's not for me, I'm not allowed to do that. Other people get to play and have fun and have creative jobs. I don't get that. It's just that was like my belief.

38:17

I went into that studio and I would you kill the vibe when you bring the manager in and you actually stop all magic from happening when you attack it with the goal of making a good song and having an outcome. Even though you're booking a studio and paying for studio time and working with collaborators to make a song, you can't go in there almost like looking to do that. And so I had to learn that, oh, when I come in and I don't just, I immediately am judging every chord of is this right? Is this going to sound the way I want it sounding bad? Oh, my God, this is going to be a terrible song. And going about it the way that I'm used to judging everything to be so efficient, Nobody was having a good time, Nobody was getting good songs made. Everyone was having to pick up on my rigid energy and almost like stop it from penetrating them, and I wasn't getting the best out of myself either, Like I wasn't even unlocking my own potential.

39:14 - Chase (Host)

So how did you change it? What'd you do?

39:15 - Olivia (Guest)

Time in the ring, showing up every day, literally just being like okay, I was too rigid today, I was hard on myself and I was hard on everyone around me, kind of, because my energy was like that and I'm going to try again tomorrow and I'm just going to keep doing it.

39:27 - Chase (Host)

Were you picking up on this or were you getting feedback? I was picking up on it, okay.

39:30 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, I think I part of part of the last few years of 2022 and what all of that set me up. Forsilocybin really helped me as well with the self-awareness, so and that was kind of a double-edged sword, because then I started to become really self-aware but not know how to change it. So I'm like, oh, I'm in this room and I'm like I'm killing the vibe and I don't know how to stop killing the vibe.

40:01 - Chase (Host)

I'm aware of the problem, but I'm not aware of the solution.

40:04 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, yes, and so the only way that I found the solution was to again do it again and again and again, try every day to show up and just be a little bit more free and relaxed. And it got to the point where, like, you write enough not even bad songs, because my collaborators are amazing and they don't really let that happen ever but my contributions, let's say, were bad enough that you just get to a point of like beautiful defeat, and there was such a freedom in like, okay, this is just not working. So now I, my manager, is exhausted because she's been trying to do it right and get this result the whole time. Now I'm so emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally, exhausted, whole time. Now I'm so emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally exhausted. Now I get to play, and in the beginning I had to exhaust myself to play and my pod producer says the same thing. She goes I have to do 10 hour days with you because our first two episodes are you being the manager, and by the third episode you're finally exhausted enough to give me a great episode.

41:02

Damn, because we're trying. And that's the crazy thing. It's that when we're trying we're not existing in our magic and our gifts, it's like the whole point of your gift is that you don't actually have to try all that hard and we make it so much more difficult than it actually is because we're trying and judging that. Trying versus just letting go and being like, whatever, I'm just going to show up. I'm just going to show up, I'm just going to be part of this, because I'm not special enough that I have to make the best song ever today. I just need to show up and be grateful to do this, but it just I had to like beat myself up out of it.

41:36 - Chase (Host)

I want to jump to a section I wanted to get to, but I think this is perfect. Have you read the creative act by Rick Rubin? Yes, okay, I'm just going to pull a few quotes.

41:46

I think what you're talking about is so spot on. So quote all that matters is that you are making something you love to the best of your ability, here and now. Yeah, personally, the last part for me hits harder than here in the now part. I think there's a power to presence that we overlook or we don't respect, we don't give enough weight or value to in the creative act, in whatever our creativity outlet is. Would you agree? How does it land on you?

42:18 - Olivia (Guest)

I could not agree more. Play is presence. That is the secret. And when you're again coming in things with that mindset of I have to have an outcome, it has to be good, it has to be whatever. Your energy is living in front of you Like you're living in the future, you're living in the outcome. Your energy is here. It's not here and you're not here and now. So that's why that when I came on your podcast last year and said you know, I think maybe I'm, my art is painting, it's because I had to go through months and months and months of painting for eight hours at a time, some days, to even be able to learn how to be present enough to start to play, to start to play.

43:00

And then again, then you go into a studio and you're like, well, I'm paying for this and it has to, and I'm taking this huge risk in my life and do I suck, and you have to like kind of relearn it all over again. But initially it was like that's why the painting and exploring other art forms before I began singing and writing music was so crucial, because I'm not. I'm not a person that can sit there and meditate for a few hours Like I'm just.

43:25 - Chase (Host)

That has never worked for me. As you see, I'm buck wild Like this is.

43:26 - Olivia (Guest)

There's something wild happening in here and it just didn't really work for me. But for me, doing a portrait, sitting there and looking at someone's face closely enough, being so present either with the person in front of me or the photo of this person to where I was like, well, what actually are they saying in their expression and what is that tiny curve of their eye? You're not thinking about anything else but that, and it is such a way into your body for the very first time, and I didn't realize until I started making art and painting and writing and singing that I had spent my whole life out of my body.

44:01 - Chase (Host)

Wow, wow. I'm kind of going through something similar as a new dad since we last met and I get asked quite a bit.

44:10

You know what's the greatest thing, or what's a surprising thing, what's a thing you're going through now as being a first time parent and I think a lot of first time parents would agree it's you have no choice but to become the most present version of yourself. Anything else, any anything else trying to feed him, trying to check my email, trying to text, trying to play with him anything else becomes infinitely, a hundred times more difficult. And when I take a step back, how I feel like I've grown or becoming daily a better or a less frustrated with my own self not him a less frustrated parent is by truly becoming as present as possible. And how he is teaching me how to do that is through play. That's all a kid does, that's all a newborn does. They just want to play all the time.

45:00

This is a toy, that's a toy. Your hair is everything's a toy. All they do is play, and when I look at him, when he's playing with whatever the thing is, or even his own toe, it's it's full extreme presence. And then he'll shift to something else, and it's full extreme presence then again, and that draws me in, and so it's wild. You know my new creative act currently is, you know, is parenting, and it's, but it's still. You know, my new creative act currently is, you know, is parenting, and it's, but it's still through these two powerful things that you're talking about of presence and play.

45:32 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, and there's. We were talking about this before we came in the room. There's ways in, and all you have to do is look at what being a human or animal looks like. Right? We go back to cave art. Humans always made art. We go back to how we got here. Humans always made babies, right?

45:47

Humans always became parents and so parenthood, making art, these are, these are medicines in a way, because these are our nature, and the closer we get to our nature and the closer we get to doing things that are natural and human, the more that we naturally have to be present to do them, or they, like, shift us into that, because that's what it's like, and there are so many things in this world now that are begging for our attention, that are taking us away from being present with one another, with ourselves, with our family, and so that's why it's like art is, so.

46:19

It's the greatest healing tool I've ever found and why I don't see it as separate from my wellness journey or separate from my era as Organic Livia. This is the next evolution of it and it feels truer than ever because this has helped me again to heal, to be in my body, to be present to the things that the body was keeping the score about and to actually witness them and be with myself in a way that other wellness tools didn't actually always help me with fully Like. This is next level, and I'm sure that parenthood, in certain ways, may be fresh. It might be hard sometimes to have to be that present, because there's things in you that you don't want to feel or see, which is why we're not present a lot. So it's like your baby is your medicine. But there's also, you know, sometimes medicine hurts going down. Right, it tastes bad going down because there's like oh, there's a reason that I was avoiding that.

47:08 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, or to your point, you become hyper aware of the problem, but the solution does not quite present itself as quickly.

47:16 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

47:17 - Chase (Host)

Or, speaking personally, I think sometimes the solution does present itself with a problem, especially through parenting, but it's. I'm not ready to give it up yet.

47:26 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, oh, my God, yeah, of course we're not ready to give up so many of the things that, again, we, like have crafted in our lives. They give us these outside sources of validation worth yada, yada, yada, like, and to do that we have to be on our email and we have to be not present, and we have to be X, y and Z, and so it's this really divine balance. And so your sweet baby is your teacher and playing with that water, like even just accessing those little parts of yourself, it changes you as much as you're playing with them, like you're playing with yourself too. And I noticed, like you know, when I don't know maybe this is a me thing or a girl thing, but when you're with your friends, for, like, you have a really long day together and it's like you know, you went to brunch and you did this, and then you're all at home on the couch just like doing whatever, and you're kind of delirious and you guys sort of start to be weirdos, like you start to just like kind of make stupid sounds.

48:16 - Chase (Host)

You're like oh, I see this yeah.

48:20 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes.

48:21 - Chase (Host)

You have your own language.

48:23 - Olivia (Guest)

Well, that's just to me, that's. We were like that. We were always that person the whole day, but we had to exhaust ourselves enough and get present and comfortable enough with each other to let that play in that silly side out. Because when we met at 10 am we were like, hey, how was your weekend? But sometimes you have to literally exhaust the manager, exhaust all the walls that we put up to be professional and perceived a certain way and to get stuff done and to get our emails done and whatever. To like, take the barriers down to be like, oh no, like I'm just life's about play as much as it is about all those things.

49:02 - Chase (Host)

It's just so much harder to get to that. Sometimes in our journey to get to that, as you say, we can deem it or others can deem it a waste of time. You know, I'm kind of using your example here of you seem pretty clear that the next thing for me is art, therapy is painting. But now here we are, a year and a half later and you're a recording artist. You're a singer, not a painter. Well, maybe not the way that you thought you would be.

49:26

We could definitely say that painting was not a waste of your time. It was a necessary tool, a stepping stone, a vehicle to get you to the next thing. But some people probably struggle with going. I'm in this thing, I know that it's maybe this is the thing or it's going to be the next thing, but I just I can't give it up yet, or I'm struggling to get there fast enough, or maybe we're being told that's a waste of time, that's not the right outlet, that's not the best use of your time. When are you going to go back to being a student and an adult? Uh, whatever.

49:56 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes.

49:56 - Chase (Host)

What would you say to them? How do you know if what you're doing is getting the proper amount of time? Do we even know what the proper amount of time is? And how do we not give up on that, not give up on ourselves?

50:08 - Olivia (Guest)

I think it's never a waste of time to do what your heart is calling you to do at any given time, whether your heart is saying, right now, I need to go lay on the floor and, like you know, stretch in a weird funky way. Or your heart is saying, right now, I need to paint and this is the thing I think I need to do. I, in a weird funky way, or you're heard of saying, right now, I need to paint and I, like, this is the thing I think I need to do. I don't think it's ever a waste of time to do the thing that you are naturally being guided to do. I think that we've just learned to not listen to that, and I also think that there's such an obsession with commodifying our time, and there's just a flaw in that mindset in itself, and so much of that is a flaw in our economy as well, because people have to commodify their time now in order to be able to make ends meet, and so the like hyper corporate I wouldn't even say it's capitalism at this point, it's like corporatism more so so like that kind of structure that we're now in has made us have to look at well, I could either be monetizing this time, or I could be spending it with my family, or I could be frolicking in a field. But I have to choose between these things and I have to even think about my time in relation to currency. That's crazy. I mean, when, when on earth, right, like up until this time I digress, I would say that, having that there are so few times in our life where we get to just be and get to just exist outside of work.

51:32

My friend was just telling me the other day she's like you know what? I've been working at X company for 10 years and I say every year that I'm going to leave and go do my next thing, or that I'm going to, like, start my next side hustle while I'm at the job. And she's like I just don't do it and I think it's because I need a time of nothingness, of not working for once since I was 12, not working to even just explore and figure out what that is. And so she was like I'm going to maybe go on unemployment or whatever so that I can just take that time. And she was like do you think that that's a bad idea or a risk? And I was like you got to hear yourself. You've been working since you were 12.

52:12

You've never known yourself outside of commodifying your time, outside of working. You've never had a chance to meet yourself when you didn't have to be spending your hours doing X, y and Z. So it whether it'sa month that you can take off, or a sabbatical of six months or whatever, to go do anything. I don't care if you will lay in the desert and throw sand on your body. You don't have to paint or do X, y and Z, just having that time with yourself of nothingness, of even discomfort, of like. Oh, I actually have no idea what I want to do, but I'm just going to try this and see where it leads and if I stumble it's okay, because there's no pressure on this time and there's no pressure to commodify the trying of painting or whatever. I think everybody needs and deserves a period like that, because otherwise you're going to jump from that one job to the next job and maybe you didn't have that period of like, realignment and nothingness to hear what the right next step was. You're making a step from, like a clouded mind.

53:06 - Chase (Host)

Right, right, yeah, yeah, I mean. It reminds me of this stoic quote. Seneca says we suffer far more in our imagination than in reality, and I think how I'm correlating that here is how many of us are actually limiting ourselves, our potential, or preventing our greatest breakthrough, our truest self to shine through, because we're more concerned about the optics of what they are going to think about when we do what they wish they could do, and that's to make the choice. To make the hard choice, to make the hard financial choice, the hard relationship choice, the hard everything choice to maybe take less pay, maybe to take no pay, maybe to like pinch pennies for six months so you can take a month off, kind of thing. That is the more difficult choice that people wish I think they could make, or figure out how to make. Then we're allowing ourselves to actually do.

54:03 - Olivia (Guest)

I could not agree more, and I also think that it's interesting how we're sold, how, like the next, the next I saw on TikTok yesterday. I was like, oh, I just made my $200 clothing order and this is gonna be the one that heals me like every month.

54:17

You know it's like you're like oh, this is the purchase, these are the clothes that'll make me finally feel like my real self and whole. But we're, we're like, conditioned in the western world that we can buy our way out of so much and that life is about acquiring stuff and acquiring things. And yet it's like the more things you acquire, the more of your time you have to spend maintaining them. Or the more of your time exchanged for currency you have to spend maintaining them or whatever it's like it's this never ending kind of thing. So it's actually like sometimes less is freedom. Um, even though we're, we're sold that more is success.

54:52

But I, to your point, like my business has financially suffered because I stepped back from posting on Instagram every day and being organic, olivia, absolutely. I took a huge pay cut and yet I'm super happy, like I'm. I am, I get to be myself and I'll figure it out. Like I'll. I'll restructure it, I'll scale down if I have to, whatever. Like I'm going to figure it out. It's not easy right now but I will and it's okay and I'm at peace with it, because doing that gave me the time that I needed to find music, and I have music now. I'm like I could cry yeah.

55:24 - Chase (Host)

I want to just kind of hone in on that last little portion. Can you translate for somebody? Can you describe that? Because I think that that's the goal, right, that's the mindset necessary to, to get to and to maintain for this period of time, this transition, this, this rebirth, this revisiting of our inner child, transition this, this rebirth, this revisiting of our inner child. But I think that mindset component is the most difficult part for people to get to and to keep, and you have to get there and you have to keep it in order for this process to work. You just kind of said it so nonchalantly and I know it wasn't an easy thing for you to get to, but describe that for somebody. Go, olivia, I'm not there. How in the world can I get this mindset that you have to allow me to have this new container?

56:09 - Olivia (Guest)

Okay. So you have to start by thinking what if I never get to meet the version of me that's at her full genius and expression and wholeness and wildness and freedom? Like you have to feel the pain of like what if I never get to meet her and I just keep doing what I'm doing and forcing myself into this box and like she's been in a timeline all along and I just I never get to be that in this life. And you have to also think about all the. I speak to women often, so I'm going to say I often think of all the women in my lineage who didn't have the choice to be her. That's a big thing for me. That's one of the greatest ways that I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and said you need to keep going.

56:53 - Chase (Host)

If not for me, then for them.

56:55 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, because my grandmother was in an arranged marriage. My grandmother before that lost her husband to the Spanish flu and slept with a gun under her pillow to protect her children and like was left with no money and no nothing. My mom was an artist and gave that up for X, y and Z and never believed that she was an incredible artist. But she would always tell me don't call me that, I'm not an artist. I never made anything out of myself, I'm not that and like left that entirely behind and I saw how stifled and Like miserable at times that she was and in certain ways she didn't always have a choice. She didn't have the tools that I have. So I owe it to each and every one of them to meet the wildest, freest version of me. That's in my full power that they didn't even have the choice. Me, I have the choice. So, number one gratitude. That's so incredible. Number two you have to understand that your the choice, mean I have the choice. So, number one gratitude. That's so incredible.

57:49

Number two you have to understand that your whatever you're doing now, and that you've gotten really good at doing whatever job it is. Whatever you've gotten so good at it because you've put time and focus energy and you've channeled your genius into it. So the the accolades that you're very comfortable in now, like whatever position you've risen to in your job or company, whatever it that was again, that was because of you, and it will be an uncomfortable journey to kind of unplug that genius and have to put it into something else. But just remember that it's your genius that will master the next thing. And imagine if it's the thing that you actually want to do. Imagine if you got to put that genius that you put towards your VP of marketing job towards the thing that you really want to do in this life that gives your entire body chills and keeps you up at night. That like you could be of maximum gift and service, the gift that you were born with.

58:40

Because you know it, everyone is born with a unique gift, whether it's a gift of communication or comedy or whatever. When we're kids we know. That's why I go back to the inner child, like you, look back at your home videos and you're like, oh, that's that's who I am, that's her. So imagine you got to channel that into there and and just understand that in that period of like, re, like, taking the energy out of the first thing and putting it into your thing, because your energy is what made it so special and work and magical. That thing's gonna wilt a little bit or change or have to die or have to, and it's gonna be hard and it's gonna be painful and you're gonna have to grieve it and you're gonna disappoint people and it's gonna be so terrible like there's no other way to put it. It's going to be the worst. It's going to be the worst. But then when?

59:28

She says with the biggest smile on her face Then, when the time passes because, like, you keep at something and it has to work eventually that's just how that's the law when the time passes and you keep putting that energy into the new thing and all of a sudden that new thing grows, you're going to look back and be like thank God, thank God, I did that.

59:46 - Chase (Host)

We are so in sync here with this. This conversation, um I actually. The next section I wanted to get into was all about meeting yourself again. You have written quote what if, instead of focusing on knowing our direction, we instead shift to getting to know ourselves all over again? So you kind of were just talking about it, but to ask you directly, what has that process of quote, meeting yourself again looked like for you in this last year and a half?

01:00:14 - Olivia (Guest)

Great. And when you say that, I think of my friend who's like oh, do I need to figure out? You know, olivia, should I figure out my next job now? And, just like you know, what should I do? What new job should I look for?

01:00:28 - Chase (Host)

Or should I take the time off and just get on unemployment and whatever and take the time to meet myself? I don't even know your friend, but take the time.

01:00:32 - Olivia (Guest)

I love you so. But that's the thing it's like. That's that's so often a progression that we do in our lives of like okay, I'm not happy in this job, so I just need to figure out what my next direction is. And as long as I figure out the next direction, then I'll be okay. But it's like, how do you and people get really confused, figuring out, well, what is the thing I really want to do, and then they jump into a new job and they hate it just as much because it's still not the thing.

01:00:58

Instead of being so focused on this, needing to know what our next direction is and needing to have that certainty, a much easier way to get not easier, you know, because everything does suck while it's happening, but an easier way to get there is to spend time in the nothingness, is to like actually take that first thing out of your hands, because you can't receive when your hands are full. So take that first thing out of your hands, have some emptiness, have some nothingness, have some uncertainty. Right, like live with the uncertainty for a while. That's where the magic happens. And in the midst of that uncertainty, get to know yourself, get to like what do I even like? When I took my first three weeks off of work which again is like what started this whole period that led me here this was 2021. I took my first three weeks off work. Eventually, that led to me doing the substance experiment, doing X, y and Z, like that was the catalyst for everything.

01:01:50

But I had realized, like I spend so much of my time checking off a to-do list and being who I need to be for work that I don't even know what I like. I don't. I don't know much about myself, like I don't. I just know myself as a CEO or as Organic Olivia. So I just I kept asking the question who am I? And I think, the more that you ask who am I? And it's not a solo process right, it's not a. It doesn't happen in solitude. It happens in things like solo traveling, like going out, meeting people. Oh, how did this person just kind of came up to me. We made a conversation. I was actually cracking jokes like, oh, I'm actually funny. I'm not someone who doesn't like to have fun. I like to have fun. Or you experience all these different sides of yourself when you give yourself the time to meet new people, to have new experiences to just be curious about, like who might I be now?

01:02:37 - Chase (Host)

And like solo travel. Travel is amazing, but I would even encourage people just start by going out to dinner by yourself. Yes, go to a movie by yourself, just, instead of maybe you and your partner taking a walk around. Just do anything you normally would do with somebody else, anybody else. Do it by yourself, yeah, and like commit to that.

01:02:55 - Olivia (Guest)

Absolutely, and and talk to new people on your own.

01:02:59 - Chase (Host)

Oftentimes, if we're out to dinner and sit at a community table?

01:03:02 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, yes, if we're with a friend and we go out and meet someone we're kind of going to, we're going to be the person that our friend knows us to be, like we're going to exist in that container versus you. Like I have, I'm a different person.

01:03:15 - Chase (Host)

I mean you can be anyone you want.

01:03:16 - Olivia (Guest)

You can be, and you don't know who that is until you, of you, because that's what we do for each other, because it is so magical the way that we act as a mirror and an expander for one another, like we're like a little mycelium network and it's like, oh we, we all feed each other.

01:03:31

But we're all just mushies so basically, it's just that the more that your goal is to know yourself and to understand yourself, then your direction becomes clear. Then it's like, oh duh, I want to move to guatemala and help an animal shelter, because that's who I am, cause I actually love animals and I love the Guatemalan culture.

01:03:48

Like I didn't know that you know what I mean, whatever it is, but it's like you get there by by becoming more intimate with yourself. And intimacy with yourself doesn't happen when we're avoiding, when we're numbing, when we're substancing, when we're like there's so many barriers you got to take off.

01:04:06 - Chase (Host)

You also wrote about shifting focus toward the people our gifts are meant to serve. Yeah, how does remembering who you serve help you move past fear and uncertainty?

01:04:17 - Olivia (Guest)

Because then it just becomes about so much more than you. It's so much harder, like talking about the courage part and how you show up every day when you're scared, which is my daily practice. It's a lot harder to do that when it's just for you, but when it's like, oh, when I show up and I talk about this, you know, I know that one person listening out there really needed this conversation. That's such a better reason to show up and like kick fear in the face than for it to just be like a selfish kind of thing. To show up and like kick fear in the face than for it to just be like a selfish kind of thing. So understanding that, like you being in your highest purpose and your highest expression and your highest gifts whatever, like you were meant to be used for as an antenna on this earth is going to be of the greatest service to everyone who's attuned to that antenna, is so magical and it also helps you get out of the wrong place, cause you're like, okay, yeah, like I think about all the time with, with influencers, us, us influencers, right, like we're. We're artists. I think every influencer is an artist. We just got really good at making capitalism art, you know what I mean. Like we just funneled it.

01:05:21

Like I I'm a songwriter, right, but I've been writing copy for PDP pages, artful, gorgeous copy that converts and all the things to describe the herbs in my products and blah, blah, blah, blah, because I'm a writer and I'm a songwriter. But I was just, I was funneling that into my company and into business and that's great and I'm so glad that I did, and like what a cool skillset to have and be able to have honed. But so often it's like we have these gifts and we just put them in the box that best suits them. But it's a box where we get to express them at 50 percent, 60 percent, but what if you were in the box of 100? Imagine what you could do.

01:05:57 - Chase (Host)

I think far too many of us know these gifts and we shun them. I don't know where I heard this, but this quote has always stuck with me Pay attention to the gifts that others already received by you or from you. I think it literally could just be as simple as man. My friends, they always come to me when they're going through a breakup. My coworkers collectively eight out of 10, all have asked me this same question.

01:06:26

There's a reason why people come to you for certain things and I guarantee you there is a theme, there's a common denominator somewhere there with a particular group of people over a period of time. That is your gift. That is your gift, that is the innate thing that you have that people want more of. So I also love what you said about being an antenna that kind of takes a lot of the, the weight off, the responsibility off, because if, if it's not us being called up to a higher purpose to share it with others, then it's oh my God, it's all me. I have to create this, I have to be it, I have to disseminate it, I have to put it out there. But if you're just finally listening and allowing and attuning yourself to what is already there. I'm not saying it's not easy, it still work.

01:07:17 - Olivia (Guest)

Can't tell you how much it sucks. I'm just gonna say that 50 times in this episode. But you're right, it's that when you attune yourself, when you put yourself in the right environments, when you put yourself in the right field, this that surround yourself with the right people, that alignment. It's like when you have a TV from the whatever 60s, 70s.

01:07:36 - Chase (Host)

I was just going to say an antenna.

01:07:37 - Olivia (Guest)

yeah, yeah and it's like you had to put the antenna in a certain particular position to get the signal. And then it was clear we have to orient ourselves as well into the right spaces, people, fields, all the things because once your antenna is in the right, it's not. It's not just you, it's, it is. And like I I say this about my songs all the time I like have chills right now. I don't get. I don't write these songs. They come through me like it really isn't spoken like a true artist.

01:08:03

It's, it's so serious and it's like such a little corny thing. I'm like, oh my god, I'm channeling the songs, but the way that melodies come and and that words come so often, it's extremely unexplainable. Rick rubin talks about it too and, um, you feel like they're that you are just so honored to be able to have received it and it's so not about you, and the second that you make it about you, they don't come.

01:08:26 - Chase (Host)

Speaking of, I want to pull up some lyrics of your song all this time, oh, and I want to kind of just just. Here's my opportunity. I don't even know what it's called, but artist interpretation. Let's shine a light, you know behind the music.

01:08:39 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, this is rap genius.

01:08:45 - Chase (Host)

And for anybody who knows VH1 back in the day don't ever think I let you down, no way. We took the long way. I'm never too far away. I'll be what you need In the dark. I'd find you Come back to remind you. I will always know your name, learning to fly outside your cage, seeing the colors that you paint. I hope that you learn to catch the rain. Now. You finally see why you came. Yeah, I'll just pause there. Yeah, who did you write that for? Who did you write that about?

01:09:10 - Olivia (Guest)

My inner child.

01:09:12 - Chase (Host)

I had a feeling. I had a feeling. I had a feeling.

01:09:15 - Olivia (Guest)

It's so funny because my co-writer had to like learn that I was not. I was not going to be writing like love song, I mean.

01:09:23

I write love songs too, but to yourself or yourself, well, I mean, I write songs about relationships too, but a lot of the times I'm like this is a song about the earth and he's like, oh my God, not again. I'm like Stevie Wonder did it. He wrote Saturn. It's fine, we can do it in a not corny way. He's like, okay, fine, she's getting another vision, but it's like it really does come through that way, because there's so much more to say in music. And like we need a song like this to your inner child. Like I need to listen to this. Like this is I made this for me and for everyone else who needs like a moment to really feel into and talk to their inner child. Like, oh, don't, don't you worry, I see you. Like it might've taken me the long way to come back around to you and realize that, like you are where my gifts come from and to be able to integrate you. Um, but we're here now and like I'm, I'm here for you and now you have someone to reparent you and take care of you in the way that you wish that you had, because I see you now, so you're not alone anymore and it's just it's like this warm fuzzy song and it I actually ended up writing this because, um, I was doing a therapy session, we were doing some parts work about the inner child and I was realizing that in this new music era, I actually can't force it.

01:10:34

Like I said, I can't show up every day with the manager. That's not working. And so I was like you know what I'll do tonight. I'm going to lay down, I'm going to close my eyes, I'm going to put my phone on record and I'm just going to let my highest self right, your capital S self, which is who, like you, are at your true essence, and I'm going to let her talk to the manager and the inner child and kind of have a conversation with them and recalibrate things internally.

01:11:05 - Chase (Host)

And this is where my wellness background and mental health tools and all the things really do work and help me with the art I have to imagine.

01:11:07 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, yeah. So I had laid down, I put my recorder on and for 45 minutes I laid there and I ended up doing some sing-songy stuff, because that's how I always was as a kid. You see videos of me and I'm like blueberries sitting on the window. I was always making up songs to talk and so I like almost went into this trance like state and I just start singing and at certain times my inner child would start talking and she would talk to the manager because there's a part of this song where she's where my inner child comes in the bridge and there's like a saxophone and she's like I'm no longer at your whim, I'm not doing what you say. So it's like don't give away everything. You got to tune in. I got to, but, um, but yeah, I just let them go.

01:11:48

And then the next day we had a writing session and so much of what I was saying started fitting perfectly with the song concept and the lyrics and there's like such a spiritual through through line too. When we started making the track, the beat for that song, I was like you know, I've been listening to Sade by your Side a lot and I was like can we, can we get inspiration from those chords. So we even got inspiration from by your Side chords which the lyrics of by your Side feel like the lyrics to this, so it's like the spirit.

01:12:15

Yeah, and that happens every. It's like it's a very spiritual thing.

01:12:18 - Chase (Host)

I like amazed are you as clear as to what blocks this kind of creative channeling, as it sounds like you are, and what opens it up?

01:12:32 - Olivia (Guest)

that's a great question. I think, um to my point earlier, one of the things that blocks it is thinking too much about what blocks it and what opens it up, like you know you can get very superstitious.

01:12:45

You can say I have to be meditating on the mountain and my energy must be clear and I have to be an open channel, and often it really is just showing up and being committed to whatever. This, again, it's bigger than me. It's like not putting yourself at the forefront. It's saying that I don't actually have to sit in the studio and write the best song of my life. It's not about me. It's about what the song wants to be. It's about the collaboration. It's about connecting with the people around me. Oftentimes, whatever we talk about in the studio and we take a moment to just connect and be like what are you going through this week? Or how's that thing going on with your wife? All oh, whatever, and we talk about our real feelings, that ends up being the song, so seemingly small talk turns into inspiration for a song, because music is love and music is connection and music is human and that's what it is.

01:13:33

You just have to, like, show up and be a human and I think that sometimes what can block it is a judging it before it's done and judging it in the middle of the process, because the creative process is messy and you can always go back and change things and sometimes you need the bad idea and you need to sit with the quote bad idea for a bit to even be able to see oh, actually, this is what it wants to be. I've taken songs home. We went to London recently to write some songs because I wanted to go and write like UK alt R&B. That was like super cool.

01:14:05 - Chase (Host)

So we brought in so much good music out of the UK, oh my God.

01:14:06 - Olivia (Guest)

You get it. Oh my God, I feel like we really were on it so good, but I was like let's bring in some cool like co-writers from the UK and whatever.

01:14:11

So we brought in this girl and we start writing this song and I'm like I was really I was judging it this day because I was like sick and I wasn't feeling right and whatever. So I was being really hard on myself. It was one of those days and I'm judging it the whole day. My energy sucks. I'm trying to keep my energy to myself because I can tell I'm doing the rigid thing and we still. We still wrote it Right and we still wrote this great top line melody. And I went home and I'm sitting with the song and I'm like okay, it sucks Right, like it.

01:14:39

Sitting with the song and I'm like, okay, it sucks Right, like it like the song itself as a whole is not good, objectively Right. I like sent it to two people that I always trust and they're like yeah, it's not, it's not like I would be like, oh, I want to play this. You're right, it's not that great. But I'm like okay, but I believe in the actual vocal melody that we wrote. So I actually reworked it and I put a country. I made it a country, I made it a country song. Instead, I put a country instrumental to it, brought it in the next day and they were like what was the inspiration behind the country instruments?

01:15:08 - Chase (Host)

Um what, what, what, spoke to you and go. Oh, this needs to be a country song.

01:15:13 - Olivia (Guest)

Honestly, my, my. I call him my A and R? Um Nick he is. He has really great music taste.

01:15:20

He's one of the two people that I send my songs to and I can send him a bad idea and he just has a gift of being like you need to style it like this. So I sent him the, just the voice, the vocal of it, and he said the chicks, wide open spaces. And he said what about that? And he's like this is, this is the vibe, this is what you need, this is what the song needs. Like he's like a song guru, a production guru. So I had, like I had used an AI app and I was like, okay, style the production of it like this, make it like you know fiddles and banjos, and go all in. And it spit out a version. And I was like oh my God, this is it for everyone, cause we had again spent the whole nine hours a day prior building it to be an Alty acoustic track. And they were like we just wrote a crazy country song in London and so now I'm going to Nashville next week to record it with a live band.

01:16:09

Yeah, it's called wild horses. It's amazing. I love it. I freaking love it. I never thought I'd write a country song but I've written like two or three. Now I keep writing like country songs.

01:16:19 - Chase (Host)

And then my other genre I do like kind of afro pop tracks with a very 90s dance vocal melody I gotta say the tracks that I've listened to like I can tell there's the olivia through line, but they're pretty eclectic they're eclectic, they're each different.

01:16:37 - Olivia (Guest)

I have like my out my full. Like first EP or whatever album is called Ibby because that was what I called myself as a child. So that drops next month. That has my other five first songs and there's a reggae song on there because I love it. It was just I wanted to just make one of every genre that I love. Growing up in Yonkers, like, we just get such a wide variety of musical tastes, and so there's a reggae song. There's like a very Disney-ish ballad. It's like Michael Buble Disney ballad there's. I mean there's everything. And now in my next album that I'm working on now there's a lot more like sad country and then happy upbeat.

01:17:13 - Chase (Host)

Let it rip, let it all out, let it get it. Let it all out. It's crazy.

01:17:18 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah.

01:17:18 - Chase (Host)

Well, I want to kind of end on another quote from Rick Rubin before I ask my final question. First of all, again, it's just so good to see you. I love seeing one of my favorite parts about doing this podcast now pushing 900 episodes now.

01:17:33 - Olivia (Guest)

Congratulations.

01:17:33 - Chase (Host)

Thank you, you are so dedicated. Thank you, and you're such an incredible interviewer. Thank you, thank you. One of my favorite parts about this process is to be across the table, to be in a room of someone who is just unapologetically themselves and or in pursuit of and I feel like you're in this amazing sweet spot of both right now, and it's so cool to have a year and a half contrast of there was identity and solidification of organic Olivia.

01:18:05 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes.

01:18:07 - Chase (Host)

But you were also hinting at, you know where you were going. And now to see that it's not like oh, you've changed, Olivia, but it's just like the authenticity. There's less layers, less layers, less layers, and I love seeing people living that truth and it lights me up. It's so intoxicating and motivating and I think honestly, regardless of the topic, you could be anybody, but to have that same energy and that same story, more or less, is what people need to hear. It's what I need to hear that no matter what the obstacle is the way we can find a way to move forward.

01:18:46

This is kind of my own reinterpretation of my own mantra. I used to believe that ever forward meant you know that like I need to go, find myself, I need to push through, I need to just keep go, go, go, go go so that I can get to the person that I need to be, that I want to be. Over the years the years it's meant to kind of come back to allow the space, to allow the container, allow the nothingness. Here's a book for everybody to recommend "'Stillness is the Key", Ryan Holiday.

01:19:10

To allow myself that time off to let my true version shine through. That's been there all along and I think we're all, we're all there, we all have been there, we all will be there, yeah, and so I just I'm going to credit you for like honoring that and making a promise to yourself and sticking through it. So with that, before I ask my last question, Rick Rubin states again the creative act, great book, Everybody get it, Even if you're not a singer, songwriter, it's get the audible yeah, everybody get it, even if you're not a singer songwriter, it's get the audible.

01:19:42

Yeah, have you listened to it? Oh, because his voice is just so he reads it. But you know, the book reads kind of like it's small, small sections yeah, like little bite-sized, very digestible he does these not to like spoil alert. In between every section. He does this like gong and it is, it's, it's a, it's a religious experience he would it's so good.

01:19:59

it's good, but he says how, as artists, we seek to restore our childlike perception, a more innocent state of wonder and appreciation, not tethered to utility or survival. I think that's a great little summary of what you were kind of just sharing your last year and a half experience with. So I get to ask you again ever forward those two words, Olivia? What do they mean to you?

01:20:30 - Olivia (Guest)

It's funny Cause I would in the. I don't know how I answered last time.

01:20:33 - Chase (Host)

I'll have to look it up.

01:20:34 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, but I think in the past I would have attributed those words to like pushing forth and like continuing to like have this forward momentum and growth mindset and all the things. But now ever forward is, I think it's just about like showing up. It's just about showing up each day, without judgment or goal or outcome, but just like being present. It's about presence.

01:20:58 - Chase (Host)

Would you like to know what you said?

01:20:59 - Olivia (Guest)

Yes, what did that girl say, that crazy girl?

01:21:02 - Chase (Host)

So this girl said speaker to my transcript here. What that brings up for me is curiosity. I think the only way that we continue moving forward is having a healthy sense of curiosity about our own behavior and our own motives that underlie that behavior, our own psychology, the relationships in our lives. And we have the ability to use that curiosity to ask questions that help us take more excuse me, help us take more personal responsibility.

01:21:30 - Olivia (Guest)

Okay, love her this time I say it's presence because the more present you are, the more the ever forward way reveals itself.

01:21:41 - Chase (Host)

The more the path is is clear.

01:21:43 - Olivia (Guest)

It's just about getting present. It's not about trying harder to see what you need to do to move forward.

01:21:46 - Chase (Host)

It's just about what's here and now where can my audience go to connect with you, to listen to you, to hang out with you? What are you doing these days?

01:21:53 - Olivia (Guest)

so you can find my music on spotify, apple music, youtube, all the things it's o dot livia, all caps oLivia. It's like kind of hard to search. It's a little bit of a regret.

01:22:03 - Chase (Host)

Honestly, I just searched Olivia Amatrano on Spotify. Oh and it comes up. Okay, so just search my full name.

01:22:07 - Olivia (Guest)

I wish that I had just made my artist name Olivia Amatrano. But that's fine, you live and you learn. And then my Instagram is at Olivia Amatrano. We'll put it in the show notes and my brand right. My past life, not my past life, my current, still life, because I still love my herbs is at organic underscore Olivia organicallyviacom. You can check out all my herbal formulas, because I was a clinical herbalist for over 10 years.

01:22:30 - Chase (Host)

Still are Still are, yes, still are, Still are still love it.

01:22:33 - Olivia (Guest)

It's just a lot to juggle.

01:22:34 - Chase (Host)

She's on the show right now. A little bit.

01:22:43 - Olivia (Guest)

Yeah, I kind of have a podcast that I kind of do once a month now, but I don't. It's like everything's in transition. So, even if you follow me on Instagram, I don't really like post like that, cause I don't know who I am and what to say. I just know that I'm going to keep making music.

01:22:47 - Chase (Host)

So love it. Well, it's great to have you back. Thanks for coming back. Thank you so much For more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode, show notes or head.