EFR 892: Metabolic Freedom: Burn Fat, Boost Longevity, and Reverse Insulin Resistance with Ben Azadi

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Ben (Guest) Well, the conversation we're going to have is about metabolism, and I think a lot of people misunderstand the metabolism, that it's responsible for every function inside of the body. So if you're looking to have more energy, maybe fat loss, anti-aging, longevity, healthspan, lifespan and not make it complicated like how do you get the science that's out there actually and fine-tune it to work for you? That's what today is going to be about, and 93% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. They're dealing with symptoms, and there's a long list of symptoms that people deal with. It might be brain fog, high blood pressure, afternoon fatigue or maybe even some severe things like cancer, autoimmune, et cetera. Those symptoms are not the problem. They're a result of the problem, which is a metabolism that has dysfunction. They're what I call it. They're in a metabolic prison.

00:48 So what we want to do is teach them to get into this metabolic freedom where you could take food for energy, whether it's carbohydrates, protein or fat, break it down, produce energy, burn fat, feel good At the end of the day, be your truest version of yourself, the way that God created you your full personality. Be your truest version of yourself, the way that God created you your full personality so you could work on that mission. Whatever that mission is, the bigger the mission, the more energy required. So we're going to discuss the ways that we disrupt the metabolism, the interference that's out there and, of course, the solutions and actually how you actually apply it for it to make sense and actually last, hey, ben Azzotti here, new York Times bestselling author of Metabolic Freedom, and my mission is to put a dent in disease. And I just had an incredible conversation with Chase on the Ever Forward podcast.

01:34 - Chase (Host) Hey guys, my guest today, ben Azzotti, has an amazing new book out called Metabolic Freedom, and that is exactly what we're diving into today. This is your 30 day guide to restore your metabolism, heal hormones and even burn fat. He has spent 17 years researching every little known fact about metabolism and longevity, and what he has packed into this book will amaze you. Now, if you want to get the hard copy, it's linked for you in the show notes, as always under episode resources. But maybe listening is more your jam.

02:04 I love audible. It is my audio book platform of choice, and if you'd like to read the book and follow along to the audio book, or maybe just throw on your AirPods, take a walk or on a flight and just let Ben read it to you, then you can actually get the book for free. All you need to do is head to audible trialcom slash ever forward, where you're going to get your free 30 day trial. And this comes with one credit good for free, any premium selection title that you want and special news for all my prime members out there you actually, with this trial, you get two credits. These credits are good for a free book, so why not check out metabolic freedom today for free, linked for you as always in the show notes under episode resources. But again, to get your free 30 day trial, that free credit, head to a U, d, I, b, l, e, t, r, I, a, lcom, audible trialcom slash ever forward.

03:02 A lot of your work and a lot of what's in your new book is centered around reversing diabetes, blood sugar control, you know true, at its core, metabolic health here. And you have this great term glucose rollercoaster. You talk about how we need to get off of this glucose rollercoaster. What does that mean, and particularly what does it mean for someone maybe listening right now with prediabetes or type two diabetes, and why are those two areas more important than ever for someone to focus on?

03:27 - Ben (Guest) You know, in the United States and this is going to lead me to the answer of your question In the United States we spend $4.6 trillion on healthcare every year. It would be the fourth largest GDP in the world. If it was a GDP $4.6 trillion you would think okay, we spent a lot of money. We should be the United States top five in health. Nope, All right. Top 10?, no 20?, no 30?

03:50 No not 37 in the world in terms of health, and we spent all that money dude. One out of every $4 is spent on diabetes, primarily type 2. So it's incredibly important to understand that diabetes, blood sugar issues, are all lifestyle side effects. They're all symptoms of a poor lifestyle. Diabetes, which is a metabolic disease, is the result of high glucose and insulin levels. So that blood sugar roller coaster. And the average American is consuming 300 grams of carbs per day and it's processed carbs Chase, and they're eating every two to three hours. That is the blood sugar rollercoaster.

04:28 You eat food, your body turns it into sugar, there's a glucose and insulin spike that goes back down and then you feel tired. You have to eat more food. That's a metabolic prison. You're relying on food for energy, so the goal is to teach the body the metabolism to burn fat so you could not have to rely on food for energy. You rely on your own body. Fat, where your body breaks it down, produces ketones. You fuel the brain, you feel good.

04:52 Not just important for those that are diabetic, but what's crazy is that you could have insulin resistance, which is the precursor to diabetes, for 6 to 14 years before your blood sugars change. Where you're diagnosed for diabetes 6 to 14 years. So blood sugars change. That are where you're diagnosed for diabetes six to 14 years. So I make the case in a metabolic freedom to get a fasting insulin blood test. It's one of the most important tests that you get done and you want to see that between three and six, which shows sensitive levels of insulin. If it's any higher, you're a sugar burner and you're on a fast path towards pre-diabetes and then full-on diabetes.

05:26 - Chase (Host) Would you have any kind of different approach talking to someone about becoming more metabolically free, so to speak, or just metabolic education? Who is pre-diabetic versus type 2 diabetes? Is there a different approach depending on where you are on that diabetes roller coaster?

05:43 - Ben (Guest) It's a great question because there is a different approach, right? So if somebody is full-on type 2 diabetic, they would have to be a little bit more strict because they're already in the advanced stages of this metabolic dysfunction. Somebody who's pre-diabetic? They still need to make changes, but it doesn't have to be as aggressive. What do I mean by that? Okay, if you're type 2 diabetic, most type 2 diabetics need to drop their total carbs under 30 grams per day 30? Coming from non-starchy vegetables to force your body to lower those blood sugar levels, break down fat and produce ketones.

06:15 - Chase (Host) Where is that number coming from?

06:17 - Ben (Guest) My data that I've seen when I've worked with 10,000 plus people.

06:24 - Chase (Host) Was this kind of like?

06:24 - Ben (Guest) an average or 30 is kind of like the floor A floor. Yeah. Some people could do 50. Some people need to go to 15, but 30 is the average for type two diabetics. If you're pre-diabetic, it's somewhere around 50 grams per day, okay.

06:33 - Chase (Host) As the average. What does that realistically look like? Someone going I don't know what 30 grams of carbs look like. Is that just one less dinner roll? Is that a half a snack bar? Maybe we're having a whole. What does that look like for the average American?

06:47 - Ben (Guest) It means all of your carbs are coming from non-starchy sources. So green leafy vegetables would be a perfect example of carbohydrates you can have, like arugula, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, cruciferous vegetables as well. It's hard to overdo those because there's fiber, it's filling, it's satiating. So you could get away with about 50 grams without a big glucose spike that takes you out of ketosis. But the bread roll or the rice, those are a no-go, it's a no-fly zone. Now some people that are not diabetic, that are not pre-diabetic, who are muscular like you're a muscular guy who are very athletic, they lift weights, they can get away with 80 grams of carbs and still be in ketosis, Because the more muscle mass you have, the more wiggle room you have as well. But if we're talking about pre-diabetics and diabetics in the beginning, they have to be a little bit more regimented and strict.

07:39 - Chase (Host) I always have this internal battle might be a stretch, but I'll say just kind of you know, this is just an N equals one study over here. Because of the way that I kind of feel my body best performs physically and mentally with like cognitive performance in my preferred training style, A low carb day for me is like 200 grams. What would you say to somebody like that grams?

08:04 - Ben (Guest) What would you say to somebody like that? Well, you're active, you've got muscle mass, and I don't know what your fasting insulin levels are, so I would have to look at that I just had them drawn.

08:13 - Chase (Host) Last week or two weeks ago, fasting glucose was 82. Not glucose, so there's a difference. Excuse me, blood sugar yeah.

08:19 - Ben (Guest) So I want insulin. Insulin is different, so glucose is good, but insulin is better. So a fasting insulin is what I would recommend. See, if it's between three and six. If it's above that, then we might want to change that 200 grams, and if it's between three and six, nothing to change there. But to answer your question, so the average american is consuming around 300 grams of carbs per day and they're eating it from ultra processed carbs.

08:41 I would guess that the carbs you eat are whole foods. Yeah, so, and you're active and you're probably having it around workouts as well. Yeah, so, you're burning it off. You've got muscle mass. I don't think it's an issue, although I would still test your fasting insulin. You're not in that 93 percent category of americans that are metabolically unhealthy. You're in the seven percent, my friend. 2.6 fasting insulin okay, there you go. So you. You pulled it up right away, so you've got. That's a perfect example right there. You're eating 200 grams of carbs from whole foods. You're active. You clearly have muscle mass. If you can't see, chase, if you're listening, he's got muscle mass. I did a bunch of push-ups.

09:17 Right before this, he did push-ups between his 27 interviews today and your fasting insulin is 2.8. You said 2.6, 2.6, um, so perfect example. You could, but you're not the average person. That's the problem. 93 of americans are metabolically unhealthy and if they ate 200 grams of carbs per day, they would not have a 2.8 insulin and then eventually it'll lead to diabetes. 2.6, 2.6, I'm sorry.

09:40 - Chase (Host) No, gotta give you, gotta get the numbers correct. 2.6, which you then makes me kind of think about where the audience member might be thinking maybe they're going. My doctors told me I'm insulin resistant, I'm pre-diabetic, I have type two diabetes. Is this number chase as and not to get into comparison? But, like you know, we might look up to certain people. We might see an example of quote metabolic freedom here and go. I'll never have that. I can never get to that. There are a lot of steps that I'm going to need to go through in order to get to a fasting insulin like that. What is realistic for somebody, what's like a good goal for somebody to strive for. That is not going to be just like breaking the bank, having them, you know, completely rewrite their identity or maybe do they need to. They need to be prepared more for financial and personal identity transformation to get to this metabolic freedom place we're talking about.

10:26 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's great and I get that sometimes. You know it's expensive to get grass fed, grass finished, to get organic, and that might be true. It might be more expensive to eat healthier and to live a healthier lifestyle. That might be true. But you know what is? What bill you don't want to pay is the bill they hand you when you get sick. That's a bill you don't want. That's a bill that is bankrupting this country and a lot of people that are going bankrupt is because from medical bills. So you have a choice.

10:50 You could be proactive here, like Einstein said. He said intellectual solve problems, geniuses prevent them. So you can be a genius right now and prevent these problems. With that being said, you don't have to break the bank to be healthy. There are a lot of free things you can do right now that help you lower insulin, lower inflammation, burn fat, feel good. I mean, we have fasting, we have grounding, we have gratitude, we have good sleep, we have movement. There's things that are free. You don't have to rewrite your identity or revamp your entire lifestyle. My approach and I talk about this in Metabolic Freedom is one tweak a week. One tweak a week Make a change. One tweak a week make a change, build that momentum and then add a different change and then master that and go from there.

11:29 You don't have to do, throw the whole kitchen sink at it. Yeah, so if you look at it that way, you just gain some momentum.

11:39 - Chase (Host) It compounds over time you talk a lot about on Instagram or on social media. I see you talk about snacking. Is quote snacking is the fastest way to age yourself. Can you explain why continuous snacking is the fastest way to age?

11:47 - Ben (Guest) yourself. Can you explain why continuous snacking accelerates metabolic decline? It's one of the things that I, when I was a personal trainer and I used to in a CrossFit gym in Miami. I used to think snacking and grazing was healthy.

11:55 - Chase (Host) Got to keep that metabolism going right. Keep it stoked right.

11:58 - Ben (Guest) Stoke the fire. Balance your blood sugar levels and none of that is true. The average American blood sugar levels and none of that is true. The average American. Get this Chase. The average American is eating 17 to 23 times per day. That's a lot.

12:13 - Chase (Host) It sounds made up. Who has time for that? It sounds impossible, right yeah?

12:15 - Ben (Guest) that's crazy. Here's how this is true it's every time you eat something, whether it's a meal or a snack, it's a meal to the body. So it's the meal, the lunch, the breakfast, the dinner, or it's the protein shake, the almonds these are healthy examples the chips, the donuts Anytime you eat it's a meal to the body, and the average person is eating 17 to 23 times a day. That is a fast path towards accelerated aging and here's why I say it's a fast way to age yourself. There's something called the Hayflick limit. The Hayflick limit states that your cells so you have about 37 trillion cells inside of your body, maybe a little bit more because you're a little bit bigger, but we have about 37 trillion cells inside of the body and our cells could duplicate to a certain limit. And then it reaches this Hayflick limit and once it reaches the Hayflick limit, the cell goes senescent, it goes rogue.

13:10 - Chase (Host) Some people call it zombie cells. Once a cell goes rogue.

13:11 - Ben (Guest) You've heard of senescent and zombie cells. Once it goes to that status, then it starts infecting other cells, they go senescent and then it weakens your immune system, which exposes you to cancer. It strips nitric oxide, which increases your risk of heart disease, and it ages you. Right, we all know that senescent cells are not good. We have immunosenescent cells, we have regular senescent cells. Okay, how does this relate to glucose and snacking? Well, the higher your blood sugars and the more you spike it, the faster you reach this hayflick limit. That's why I say it's a fast way to age yourself, because every time you eat and graze, you're creating that growth factor. Insulin is a growth factor and it tells your cells to duplicate and duplicate. And you're reaching this Hayflick limit when you're 55, 65. And all of a sudden, you have all these senescent cells and you're stripping stem cells, you're stripping nitric oxide and you're turning your body into this zombie-like state.

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16:47 Elementcom slash ever forward. That's D R I N, k L M N. Tcom slash ever forward. Stay hydrated, stay strong. Drink elementcom slash ever forward. What do you think is most alarming for people right now thus far in the podcast? The fact that the body is this crazy amazing machine that I can go years kind of skirting by. You know, you know, forget the quote. You know how many years can we go getting the best diet or the best healthy habits or stress?

17:15 - Ben (Guest) navigating stress before we get into an actual illness or disease, or is it just like?

17:31 - Chase (Host) should it be a bigger wake up call that we're allowing these things to go on for so long and we're not really truly aware of even how many times we're eating a day?

17:39 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, 17 to 23 times. Yeah, I think both right. It's a great point. I mean, the body is so resilient. And if we didn't make that clear from that six to 14 year study which is actually a study I put in the book of the Whitehall study too, if you want to look it up I'm always amazed, chase, that honestly I say this with with love and respect but I'm always amazed that we're not just dropping dead left and right as human beings, with all the things we do to destroy our health the snacking and grazing, of course, the bad habits that are out there, the addictions, the drugs and all that. I'm surprised we're not just dropping dead. It shows you how resilient God made the human body, first and foremost.

18:14 But we don't want to just rely on that and say, oh you know, six to 14 years, I'll just, you know, don't worry about that. No, we want to be proactive. I said the Einstein quote. We want to be geniuses and once you start removing the interference, the body goes to heal itself. Every cell has an innate intelligence, this inner physician. The body's not broken, your metabolism is not broken, it's being interfered with. You just have to remove the interference. That's the first step. Identify the interference, remove the interference, allow the body to heal itself, and that will happen, whether you're 25 years old or 95 years old. The body wants to heal itself, it wants to survive, it wants to thrive. It's just a matter of finding out what that interference is.

18:51 - Chase (Host) So let's say I'm someone who doesn't have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes or insulin resistance, but maybe I'm not making the best metabolic choices in my day. Is there any other less than ideal health scenario that we could be on the path to? Maybe it's not the six to 14 years, but what else is down the road for us if we don't take control of our metabolism now?

19:14 - Ben (Guest) Well, heart disease, as you know, is the number one killer in the US, I think globally. Globally too, I think, maybe, yeah, I think most first world countries are number one. Cancer is number two in the US, and maybe these other countries too, so you're going to increase your chances of that as well. You know, heart disease is something that we don't want, of course, but when this is, it starts off as subtle symptoms and in the beginning of Metabolic Freedom, right at the beginning of the book, I talk about people who climb Mount Everest. When they trek this amazing mountain right, they need a Sherpa to guide them. If they don't have a Sherpa, they'd probably die. There's people that are encased in ice from the 1950s, that are never coming down. They didn't have a Sherpa, they didn't know how to do it.

19:55 So when you're on this path towards greatness, right climbing Mount Everest, you have a Sherpa to guide you. Why is that important? Well, because you could start to have subtle symptoms as you climb this mountain. You could start to firstly. First you start to get out of breath, then it's heavy breathing, your heart accelerates, and these are signs that you need to slow down. You need somebody to guide you, you need to pace yourself, but if you don't have a Sherpa guiding you, those symptoms turn into death. It's the same thing with human beings. We start to get subtle symptoms. Maybe it's afternoon fatigue, maybe it's bloating after a meal, acid reflux, maybe it is. You start to gain five or 10 pounds. These are subtle symptoms.

20:34 If you don't pay attention to that, it leads to a major diagnosis. It could be the cancer, it could be the heart disease, it could be autoimmune, but the symptoms are not the problem. That's where mainstream medical information has taught us that we should hate symptoms and mask it up. But no, those symptoms are a gift from God. It's a gift from your innate intelligence. It's your body's check engine light. Thank God we have this system in place because we could identify. All right, the check engine light is turning on. Your body is communicating to you through a symptom. Let's pay attention to find out what's causing that symptom. Communicating to you through a symptom. Let's pay attention to find out what's causing that symptom. If you pigged out last night, you went out and partied and ate a whole bunch of pizza and beer and wine and ice cream, chances are you would wake up this morning with a symptom. And the average person. An average person would be like I've been there.

21:18 The average person would make an appointment with their doctor and say, doc, I have a headache today, I have my acid reflux is flared up and I'm bloated and I have constipation. And the average allopathic physician will hear that person and say all right, no worries, I have a prescription for an antacid, anti-flagellants and three other prescriptions. Go to the pharmacy and pick up your medication. Okay, that's treating the symptom. If the doctor would have just asked what did you eat last?

21:45 - Chase (Host) what were you doing the night before? What were you doing the?

21:46 - Ben (Guest) night before. Okay, don't do that again. That your body was communicating to you, right? So, to answer your question, we need to pay attention to symptoms. It might not be the blood sugar thing like you mentioned. It could be headaches or weight gain or, uh, your, your mood, your energy levels are cyclical. You're irritable here and there. Pay attention to the symptoms, because it's clues your body's trying to get you back to homeostasis.

22:09 - Chase (Host) Talk to us a little bit more about just the dynamic definition, the dynamic application that is metabolism. Because I think a lot of people when they hear metabolism they go I have a fast one, I have a slow one, or if I have more muscle, then you know I'm burning fat, more kind of thing. Or if I'm more lethargic, then my metabolism drops, or I have a thyroid problem, all these other things that go into typical metabolism understanding. But there's a whole other world to metabolism correct, and that's cellular metabolism, energetic metabolism at the mitochondrial, cellular level. Metabolism happens in the body in a lot of different ways, yes, so help us understand metabolism in that way so that we can be more empowered about, maybe, how we're, how we're feeding it, how we're stoking it, and just better understand what's going on in the background yeah, it's great.

22:57 - Ben (Guest) You know it could be a little complicated if we want it to be right when we talk about metabolism, the electron transport, yeah, crab cycle or animal cycle.

23:05 - Chase (Host) We can get super complicated. We don't need to right no.

23:08 - Ben (Guest) Metabolism means transform. That's what the Greeks call it transform. I love that definition. It's one simple word. What does that mean? That means we take food. We take protein, fat or carbohydrates and we transform that into energy. When we have a working metabolism or we don't eat food Like I'm fasted today, chase I haven't eaten. It's going to be about 24 hours in, about an hour, so 23 hours right now. So my body is transforming my body fat into energy. When you don't eat food, I'm drinking water. I'm transforming that into energy. I could go out. I was sitting outside here and getting sunshine. I was transforming that into energy. That's what metabolism is. We take whatever substrate is available food, body fat, water, sunshine, red light, whatever and we transform that into energy.

23:50 Unfortunately, 93% of Americans cannot do that. They can only burn sugar. They have to eat carbs and that's their only substrate. God forbid they had to fast for 24 hours. They would be blubbering, irritable. They would not be able to do what I'm doing. Right. But the thing about the metabolism I'm so glad you said I want a fast metabolism or I have a. I hear that all the time. But here's the thing about the metabolism it doesn't operate in speed.

24:19 - Chase (Host) How many people are scratching their head right now Like wait what?

24:21 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it doesn't't. It's not fast or slow, it's efficient or inefficient very different. And the animals in this world, in the wildlife, that have the fastest metabolism have the shortest lifespan. Say that again. The animals in the this wild, let me say it again the animals in the wildlife, if you study, that have the fastest metabolism, they have the shortest lifespan on this planet. Why? Because the more the metabolism has to work and produce energy, the more accelerated the aging becomes, the more processed. It's like using your car and you buy a brand new car and if you drive it every single day and put pedal to the metal, you're wearing it out. It's like that. So we don't want to do that. We want a metabolism that is efficient, that can use the energy that comes in as efficiently as possible. And when we think about efficiency versus inefficiency I already mentioned it 93% of Americans have an inefficient sugar burning metabolism. And one more thing here to kind of wrap this up, not the conversation, but this question I hear so many people blame their age for their metabolism.

25:32 I'm sure you heard it too. I'm 40 and my metabolism slowed down. I'm 50 and it's nothing I can do. They use it as like an excuse to why they shouldn't do keto or fasting or whatever it is, or these biohacks that you talk about.

25:43 Well, when I looked at the studies for metabolism Chase and I dug deep into many of them for the book one of them stood out to me. This is a Duke University study from 2022. Pretty good study 6,600 people in the study, and it was a worldwide study looking at the US and other countries and get this in the study out of the 6,600 people. The age range from the participants in the study was from age one a baby, to age 95. And everybody in between. And they used a gold standard of measurement for the metabolism. It was a urine test to see what changes happened throughout our lifespan when it comes to the metabolism. And here's what it said Between the ages of 20 years old and 60 years old, it said there are no significant changes in the metabolism. Come on, not at all. But then it said between the ages at the age of 60 and above, every year after age 60, there's a 0.7% decline in the metabolism every year after that, that's nothing.

26:48 Pretty low. But here's why the metabolism starts to decline and here's how you prevent it. The study said the reason why it declines is because of loss of muscle mass. So that means your excuse that you're 40 or 50, your metabolism slowed down? Nope, studies show that doesn't happen. And if you're 60 or above or before 60, if you work on building lean muscle mass and preserving it, you could be 95 years old with the same metabolism as when you were 25 years old. I think that's pretty cool.

27:17 - Chase (Host) That is. That's amazing. That's the muscle-centric life I know Dr Gabrielle Lyons probably jumped over joy right now. She probably contributed to that study, if you know her. So I mean well not to open up a can of worms about muscle, but is that really the key here? So, besides maybe the dietary changes we're talking about to enhance metabolism efficiency, is it really optimally about having more muscle on the body compared to fat?

27:45 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it is because when you have more muscle, you're going to burn more fat. It raises your metabolic. You burn more calories. When you're sitting down, pretty much, you get more of an efficient metabolism. You know why? Because of insulin. Right, Going back to insulin, you're more insulin sensitive with the more muscle mass you have. And I think when we start talking about muscle mass, people have this maybe a picture of like a bodybuilder and a CrossFitter.

28:07 - Chase (Host) Yeah, like I got to be some jacked human being in order to be, you know what we're talking about.

28:11 - Ben (Guest) And that's not the case.

28:13 No, we're talking about lean muscle mass. So many people are not. They're not eating enough protein. There's something called the protein leverage hypothesis, and it states that. I don't 100% agree with it, but there is some truth to it. It states that the reason why we have obesity and Dr Gabriel Lyon believes in this for sure the reason why we have obesity is because of people trying to meet their protein requirements through processed food. And you have to eat so much processed food to get your protein requirements so we overeat to get there and then we become obese. Well, we don't have to do that. We could eat high quality protein rich foods. I talk about this in the book. We want to focus on protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, and most people could do that with just at least 30 grams of protein at each meal.

28:58 - Chase (Host) That's not unrealistic, I think for a lot of people Not at all. Yeah.

29:01 - Ben (Guest) One egg is about six grams of protein, so you have five eggs. Boom, you're right there.

29:05 - Chase (Host) Okay, you talk a lot about post-meal walks, blunting speaking of insulin, spiking insulin. What's the ideal walk prescription for fat burning and metabolism efficiency?

29:17 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, so walking after a meal, as you just said, is key for fat loss. It's one of the greatest things you can do Now. Ideally, if you could walk after every meal great. Now when I talk about that on my YouTube videos, people are like dude, I have no time, I have to work and I get it. So if you could just choose the biggest meal of the day and usually it's dinner for most people and use that as the meal that you go for a walk right after you're going to get the at least 10 minutes 30 minutes would be optimal, but at least 10 minutes.

29:43 Here's why, when we eat food, we convert that food into sugar and we convert it into gluconeogenesis, into our glycogen stores, liver and muscle cells. And what happens is, when we eat food and it turns into sugar, we need to produce insulin to clear that glucose, which is the sugar, out of the bloodstream, because the body has this very tightly controlled mechanism in place for glucose. So we raise glucose, we produce insulin to clear the glucose and then shuttle that glucose into the cells for energy. When we don't go for a walk and let's say we had a high carbohydrate meal, processed or not, there's going to be a glucose spike and then your body has to produce the appropriate amount of insulin to clear it. The more insulin that's produced, the more you're storing fat.

30:26 When we go for a 10 to 30 minute walk after a meal, instead of producing that much insulin to clear the glucose, we activate our glute for transporters, which is like a sponge to absorb the glucose into the bloodstream. So we're essentially using the glucose for energy versus fat storage. So it's a great thing you can do, whether you're diabetic, overweight or just not, and you go right after your meal's done. I get that question all the time Do I do it right after? I wait 30 minutes Right after it's done 10 minutes at least, but 30 minutes is optimal and use your biggest meal of the day to do that with.

30:55 - Chase (Host) I see quite a bit of controversy online these days around this whole insulin spike thing or, excuse me, glucose spike triggering the insulin response the body. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's meant to have this you eat some carbohydrate, you eat fruit, you, whatever. You're going to have this glucose spike. It's meant to then trigger insulin to mitigate that. Are these glucose spikes really as bad as people are making them out to be? Is it a matter of how high the spike is, how long the spike is, how many spikes we have over time? Are we demonizing the wrong thing here?

31:31 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, to your point. It's a really good thing to bring up because it's not bad to have a glucose and insulin spike. The body is well equipped and designed to do that. We don't want to just like have flatline glucose and flatline insulin. That's not realistic. It's not realistic and it's also not good for you too. We want our pancreas to go to work and produce insulin and clear glucose. But to your, what you just said it's it's a matter of how frequently we're doing it, what your state of your metabolic health currently is. I mean 93% of America. I keep going back to the stat, but it's a big stat. It's a big stat. That's almost everybody in the US. They have been doing glucose and insulin spikes, constant insulin spikes, for years and they need to mitigate it. They need to create more sensitive levels of insulin. They do. If you're like you, you have 2.6, I got it right. You don't have to worry about that.

32:19 In the beginning, like I mentioned, you're a little bit strict. You're a little bit regimented, but over time you're a little bit strict. You're a little bit regimented, but over time you don't have to be as regimented and strict. You could be more flexible. You could have those glucose and insulin spikes. I have an approach personally where Monday through Saturday, I eat a carnivore diet, so I'm in ketosis and I do intermittent fasting and I get my protein requirements. Sunday I feast bro. I have 400 to 500 grams of carbs. On a Sunday, I have 400 to 500 grams of carbs on a Sunday. I eat low fat on that day, high protein, high fat, and I feast it up. I want to maintain metabolic flexibility Like that's my current approach that works for me. So it's a matter of working on your metabolism and then finding your groove of metabolic freedom. I see you Is that?

32:57 - Chase (Host) a CGM? It's not, it looks like one.

32:59 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, everybody thinks it is Mona asked the same question.

33:03 - Chase (Host) So the CGMs continuous glucose monitors have become a great tool in the biohacking community. And just, you know wearable technology I used to rock it. You know, shout out levels. I'll rock one once or twice a year just kind of get that snapshot. Do you think that's necessary for most people to better understand their current metabolic state, or can we go more off a qualitative? You know how do I feel? Am I feeling sluggish brain fog carrying around this? You know, extra weight or maybe even obesity Is that necessary?

33:35 - Ben (Guest) It's not necessary, but it's a very valuable tool for sure. You know levels. I've rocked them. I've rocked some others as well. I think it's a very, very valuable tool because it gives you a 24-7 look at your glucose levels. It tells you what you look like fasted, what it looks like after a meal. One of the most important things you can do is look at your glucose before you eat a meal and then two hours after, and a continuous glucose monitor will show you that. And here's what you want to see.

33:54 When you test your glucose before a meal let's say it's 85, which is a good fasting glucose 85 milligrams per deciliter Then you eat your meal, then you test or look at your continuous glucose monitor two hours later. It should be back down to 85, to where it was before. That showed you produced the right amount of insulin to clear the glucose and go back to baseline. If it's elevated at 122 hours after eating, that's not good. That means you're not producing enough insulin. That usually shows you're in the latter stages of insulin resistance. And if you see it lower your glucose to like 65 or 60, that's hypoglycemia. That's also an issue too. That means your body produced too much insulin. So you would see that with a continuous glucose monitor it's not necessary. You could pay attention to your body, definitely get a fasting insulin, but it's a valuable tool. You could see what food does to your glucose. You could see what sleep or lack thereof sleep does. You know you have a new baby, so you might be I don't want to wear a monitor.

34:52 - Chase (Host) Maybe we're getting better, but definitely not as a newborn. Yeah, you probably should attract it.

34:56 - Ben (Guest) Right now. You can see what stress does um. You know, when I started wearing my my continuous glucose monitor back in 2018, I was, uh, eating coconut whipped cream, thinking it was healthy, and, dude, it's jacked up my blood sugar levels like 160. Like I would have never known that if I didn't test and track it and see that. And now I don't have coconut whipped cream.

35:16 - Chase (Host) So yeah, so I think, um, using these tools is great, but then also like the knowledge of uh, what do I do with that next? This is, I think, where a lot of people might struggle with. The whole metabolic freedom aspect is okay, I learned all these things. Maybe I tracked it, I got a CGM or I got some fasting labs or I just maybe just dropped in more. I sat with my body more and I learned how to really listen to, how I really truly feel. Then it's like well, what is the next best step I can take? What should I be doing to control these glucose and insulin spikes? What should I be doing to really lose those final last five pounds? Or maybe it's 50 pounds you need to lose. It's what are the next best steps that I think keep people from taking and keeping consistent action.

35:57 - Ben (Guest) What would you say to them yeah, you start with the foundations, first and foremost, with your food, right. So you eat whole foods over processed foods. It's a thing we hear all the time, but it's the truth. You start there. I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. If you go to the grocery store and you eat or you buy a potato, or you're about to buy a potato and you look at the ingredients list, you're going to see the ingredient listed is a potato, right. You see what you get. You get what you see.

36:20 And then if you go to the inter, then you start eliminating your snacks. You have your three meals a day. Then you start gradually lowering your carbohydrates right, but you also focus on the other foundations of health, which is stress. I call it masterment, stress masterment, sleep quality and movement, like. Once you've mastered those, then you start applying the cold plunge. Then you start applying the red light therapy. Then you start applying the sauna. So many people major in the minors. They skip the foundations and they're they just want the supplement, the bio hack and I'm not against any of those things. But you can't skip the foundations first and get there, because then you're going to say, oh, sauna doesn't do anything for me, or that cold plunge wrecked me, or that supplement doesn't do anything for me, it's because you skip the foundation. So mastering that, those things first, and you stack those habits and tweak a week sort of mindset, then you start adding in other things that appeal to you.

37:19 - Chase (Host) Uh, you hit on a keyword I want to drive home, and that's stress. I think this is where it's kind of the opposite of what you're talking about, where a lot of people are doing the right things, the foundational things, consistently, um, but they're just not seeing the needle move. They're still holding on to excess body fat, their blood sugar is still through the roof, their brain fog is crazy All these things that are the antithesis of metabolic freedom. How important is it to address stress as maybe the thing, the sleepy thing that's keeping them from the success they really want?

37:48 - Ben (Guest) It's so important. I know so many many people. They could be eating clean, intermittent fasting, working out, but yet they have a lot of stress mental, emotional stress and it's not a matter of eliminating stress. We don't want to live in a bubble. It's a matter of adapting to the stress better. And we've heard of this, something, this concept called the, the cortisol belly. The cortisol is a? It's a thing. People have this cortisol belly. Know why? Because the a it's a thing. People have this cortisol belly. You know why? Because the visceral fat is the fat around your organs and subcutaneous fat is the healthy fat around your body. But the visceral fat is the nasty fat and we have two times the amount, twice as many cortisol receptor sites in our visceral fat than our subcutaneous body fat. Wow, so the more stress and cortisol you have, the more visceral fat you're fighting against.

38:35 - Chase (Host) It's fighting against us twice, yes, twice, two times the rate.

38:38 - Ben (Guest) Double the effect, probably. So one of the things I use with my clients and I also talk about this in Metabolic Freedom to track if you're adapting to stress or not, is heart rate variability. It's the best metric and it's looking at your nervous system, because we have our sympathetic nervous system, which is the stress, the fight, the flight, adrenaline which we want in spurts, but we don't want to be locked in this sympathetic tone. Then the other side of our nervous system is the parasympathetic, which is rest, digest, detoxify, recover Also great, but you don't want to be locked into parasympathetic. So your heart rate variability, which is not your heart rate, it's looking at the variability in your heartbeats every minute. The higher that number, the more you are adapting to stressors, the lower that number. The stress is dominating you. You're not dominating the stress, right?

39:29 So you track your heart rate variability with I have an Our. You could use an aura ring or a whoop. Uh, is that a whoop? Yeah, so you could use a whoop. You could use um. These are going to be more accurate than, like, an apple watch or a fitbit, but those also track it. And then you get your average of your heart rate variability and then you work on increasing that average and everybody's average is different yours. Do you know what your average is for hr?

39:51 Well, again new dad here Okay prior to the baby Okay prior.

39:54 - Chase (Host) I was getting 110, 120s. That's great.

39:59 - Ben (Guest) That's really, really great. That's actually above what I typically see. I'm curious to know what it is now with the baby.

40:05 - Chase (Host) Yeah, let's just say I haven't been tracking as much just because I know it's in the crapper. Okay, but we're back on our game now.

40:11 - Ben (Guest) Okay, cool yeah. So you find your average track for seven days.

40:15 Like forties, high forties sixties, like high for me now. So it's a perfect example of like stress, right, what it does. So, yeah, you then you start working on on the stress and identifying what's, what's causing that sympathetic dominance, what's causing a parasympathetic suppression, right, sleep is where you work on first. I know with a newborn it's hard to do that, but sleep is what you work on first and then you could kind of understand if your cold plunge or your sauna is helping you or hurting you. Because if you do a cold plunge and your HRV drops the next day, well, that cold plunge wasn't good for you. Either it was too cold, you did too much too long, or whatever it was, or the sauna or the fasting schedule these are all stressors. So the HRV helps you identify if these stressors are helping you or hurting you.

40:58 - Chase (Host) Yeah, this not to get too nuanced here, but literally right before this conversation I had a whole podcast with Kristen Wetzel and we're talking about cold plunging and the amazing benefits that it has on a lot of different things. But again, it might not be for you, it could be detrimental. I don't say detrimental, but you could be getting other benefits, but not this one, Correct?

41:18 - Ben (Guest) Correct, and I love cold plunge. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I have a plunge at my house. But if your mitochondria are not healthy and you're not healthy, you have no business doing a cold plunge. And if you do, you start very slow and you start with like 10 seconds and get out and then 15 seconds and then 30 seconds.

41:33 - Chase (Host) Just crank the shower to cold at the very end.

41:35 - Ben (Guest) Yeah exactly Start right there, right, but there's so many benefits to a cold plunge. I'm sure Kristen got into it. It's phenomenal, but it's so different for everyone and you said it might not be detrimental. Actually it can be for some people. My colleague, dr Rob Kamanarik, who's a doctor. He has two patients that had a stroke after a cold punch, two patients because they were not healthy. They heard about cold plunging. They probably did it too cold and too long. Cold plunging is a vasoconstrictor. That doesn't mean it's bad. But if you're already inflamed and susceptible to heart disease, you go in that boom, you trigger something that's bad, so you got to adapt to it. It's called hormesis. It's a positive stress. When you apply stress and adapt, you're benefiting. When you apply a stress and you don't adapt, you're losing this hormetic curve and I have a chart in the book that shows it and all of a sudden you're not getting the benefits.

42:24 - Chase (Host) So you recently had this book come out and always I'm always curious with authors there's always got to be one thing that was just solidified in your mind writing a book about you know a particular topic and just going, oh wow, yes, I dove into the research and this was like verified, this was solidified. What was that one thing for you, and what maybe was one thing that were like, oh wow, I had no idea I was going to find this out?

42:45 - Ben (Guest) Okay. So the solidified? Well, what's solidified for me is that a lot of people reach out to me because they're trying to lose weight, trying to burn some fat, get healthy. And the book does talk about how to how to burn fat and fix your hormones. But the premise that I used to operate from many years ago when I was in the CrossFit space, personal trainer, and so the premise that a lot of um, like fitness bros and gals, still operate from is that it's just a calories in versus calories out sort of thing.

43:13 If you want to lose weight, like if you just eat less, move more, and you know calories matter but they're not the most important thing. And what solidified um, some of the research as I was writing is is this we don't lose weight to get healthy, we get healthy to lose weight right. So when we think about cutting, focus on calories. Calories, that is the symptom Chase because, look, I used to be obese 250 pounds, 34% body fat. I never had a weight problem. Nobody has ever had a weight problem. It's a weight symptom. Calories focuses on the symptom. What we want to focus on is hormones and inflammation. So this book solidified that. That is the message. That is true because I found study after study showing that calories in versus calories out doesn't work and how fixing your hormones and inflammation does work. So that was the solidifying piece. I don't know if you want to add anything to that before we move to the second part.

44:10 - Chase (Host) No well, I mean, that would be a whole other podcast. There's so much around, you know, calories in, calories out. I really think it comes down to what I'll say to. This is just, it comes down to what is your goal. Yeah, I'll make the statement If you want to lose weight, if you focus on calories in, calories out, if you reduce calories, then yeah, you're going to lose weight, but you're not necessarily always getting healthier. Yeah, I do believe, and still, as a verified, bona fide, certified health coach over here, if you focus on, to your point, getting healthy, reducing inflammation, reducing stress, becoming more metabolically flexible, you're going to accomplish that goal and most likely, you know, lose weight or recomposition, I'll say body fats and muscle mass ratio. There you go, good verbiage there.

44:54 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, exactly, there's a difference.

44:55 - Chase (Host) I don't want to anger you know, Dr Lane Norton, by you know, going any deeper with the calories and calories.

45:01 - Ben (Guest) Yeah Well, he's already angry at me, so I don't. Really it doesn't matter. He's recorded like nine videos about me so he could do a 10 lane. Love you, bro, do number 10.

45:09 - Chase (Host) I don't mind Top three supplements or foods, you tell someone starting oh, wait, wait, wait.

45:15 - Ben (Guest) I didn't answer the second part of the question. Well, this is a surprising part, yeah, surprising part, yeah yeah, yeah, surprising part.

45:19 - Chase (Host) Okay, so surprise-. This is why you have a podcaster on as a guest, because they circle back.

45:24 - Ben (Guest) They circle back for you. Come on, bro, we get. Chapter 10 is my favorite chapter in the book to how your thoughts influence your health or disease, and I already was familiar with that. But you know, diving into these crazy stories and how powerful your thoughts are, just like really, it just really surprised me, like I already thought that your thoughts were really powerful and I knew they were powerful.

45:48 - Chase (Host) But, like when I dove into some of the stories, do you want?

45:50 - Ben (Guest) me to share a story. Yeah, what's it all the most? Yeah, I'm curious. Okay, I start the chapter off with this story. It's a true story from the 1960s, from Bob Proctor shared this with me.

45:59 So it was a railroad employee who worked inside of a train Get this and he worked inside of a refrigerator cart. And he was working late one night in this cold refrigerator cart and all of his co-workers left. He didn't realize it was past his time to clock out. So he opened up that door but they locked him in there. He was stuck and he knew nobody was coming around to him the next morning. So his thoughts started to get the best of him. He was like, shoot, I'm going to freeze to death here. It's freaking cold, nobody's coming in for like nine, ten hours.

46:24 And what he did is there was a wall and then he had a marker or a pen or something to write with and he was writing, kind of documenting his night. So at 12 am he wrote the words I'm stuck, it's freezing, I don't know if I'm going to survive tonight. At 1 am he wrote the words still stuck, shivering, can't keep myself warm. 3 am he wrote the words temperature keeps dropping, I'm going to die. All right, 7 am rolls around. His co-workers clock back in. They open up that refrigerator cart. The man froze to death hypothermia. But here's the crazy part about I mean, it's not that surprising.

47:00 - Chase (Host) I just want to think about it.

47:00 - Ben (Guest) But here's the crazy part, bro. When they investigated the temperature apparatus in that refrigerator cart, it had been malfunctioning for weeks. It never dropped below 55 degrees Fahrenheit.

47:13 - Chase (Host) Don't tell me it wasn't that cold. It wasn't cold enough. He believed it was, and it killed him.

47:18 - Ben (Guest) That is how powerful your thoughts are. If it could kill you like that, it could heal you as well, and I talk about that. That's the nocebo effect. There's also the placebo effect, right, so I talk about that. Oh my gosh.

47:36 - Chase (Host) That's my favorite chapter in the book. I'm already starting my next book. It's called Mental Freedom and it's all about an expansion of chapter 10. Belief is an incredibly powerful tool. Yeah, and I think we're all. If we're struggling with belief and believing in our capabilities to have the life and have the wellness, to have the health, to have the body, the sensation that we want, it's because I think we probably haven't gotten there. We're still stuck in fear. We don't believe that we're capable of it. More importantly, we're probably not believing that we're worth it. Yeah, yeah, oh man.

48:00 - Ben (Guest) You spot on. It's been said that it's sad when a child is afraid of the light, afraid of the dark. Excuse me, what's even more sad is an adult afraid of the light, bro. They're afraid of their power, they're afraid of the success they will have, and you're spot on. And belief is the starting point. It's everything, it's everything.

48:17 - Chase (Host) Well, you know I'll say I know you're a busy man, we got to get you rolling out of here. I think this is a perfect time to get into my final question. Let's go bro. Believing that we can move about, learning how to live a life ever forward is always what I try to drive home. Those two words ever forward, what do they mean to you, ben? How would you say you live a life ever forward?

48:37 - Ben (Guest) Ever forward to me is faith. It's faith over fear, and the interesting thing about faith and fear, they're kind of the same thing. It's something that's invisible, that you put energy into, that gets you a result. Why not choose the ever forward option, which to me, is faith? And Bob Proctor has the greatest definition on faith that I've ever heard. He said faith is the ability to see the invisible, to believe in the incredible, which will permit you to achieve what the masses think is impossible. Come on, Shout out.

49:09 Bob. Shout out Bobby P, that is ever forward. It's living on. Shout out Bob. Shout out Bobby P, that is ever forward.

49:13 - Chase (Host) It's living on purpose, with your purpose.

49:14 - Ben (Guest) Having the faith that you're going to do whatever you need to do and the people are going to come into your life. You're going to hit all your goals. So I love those two words. By the way, ever forward, thank you, because to me it's like it's better. It's create, it's collaborate, it it's you know, the opposite. It's either a crate or you disintegrate. This is moving forward, the way God designed us to grow and expand. Nothing stays the same. Everything is moving this bottle of water to this table. So you're either going forward, ever forward, or you're disintegrating and going backwards. So I love this concept.

49:47 - Chase (Host) No disintegration here, fam, just moving forward. That's right, brother. Well, congratulations on the book, having incredible success with it. Now Love to hear you're already working on the next one. Yes, where can my audience go to connect with you, get the book and learn more about being more metabolically free?

50:03 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, well, it's an honor. I know we had connected a little while back.

50:06 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, shout out Mindy Pills. Shout out to Mindy, who wrote the forward too.

50:09 - Ben (Guest) So I'm grateful that you allowed me to share with your community. I love what you're doing, bro. 900 episodes plus probably even more by the time this comes out, I know, I know.

50:17 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's wild, yeah, congratulations, thank you?

50:20 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, the book's available everywhere. But if you want to get a free course on the metabolism with interviews with Dr Jason Fung, megan Ramos, megan Ramos, cynthia Thurlow and Dr Daniel Pompa, if you go to metabolicfreedombookcom and buy the book there, put your information, you'll get the free course and the interviews delivered to you, right?

50:38 - Chase (Host) away Too easy. And one of the things I'll say to kind of wrap up here that I love about just hearing your work is all the people kind of surrounding and supporting it, so many people you're just sharing. There are past guests, friends of mine and just people that I look to to stay continuously moving forward in my own wellbeing. So to know that everyone's kind of coming together and supporting these multiple different missions just tells me that we're all doing our own thing but also collectively supporting the right missions, that we all need to be metabolically free to learn how to move ever forward. Whatever our tagline is, we're all after similar things and that's just to help ourselves and to help the community around us.

51:16 - Ben (Guest) Amen, brother. That's what it's all about, the world needs it, man.

51:18 - Chase (Host) Yes, yes. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradiocom.