EFR 887: Dating Coach Tells What Women REALLY Want! Top Turn-Ons For Women & How to NOT Be Single in the World of Dating Apps with Marni Kinrys

00:00 - Chase (Host)

The following is an Operation Podcast production. 

00:03 - Marni (Guest)

Hi, my name is Marni. I am the ultimate wing girl and it is my job to teach men and I'll teach women as well how to attract, date, seduce, get and keep the women they want. And I am here on Ever Forward Radio. 

00:22 - Chase (Host)

I haven't been in the dating world in 13 years. 

00:25 - Marni (Guest)

Okay. 

00:26 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, so my wife and I have been married almost nine years, been together for 13. Wonderful. So, dating back then was totally different. It was we actually went out in public and that's how we met people. And I talk to a lot of my single friends now and they're like bar, what's that? 

00:40 - Marni (Guest)

Right, exactly In person. 

00:42 - Chase (Host)

You just go out in public and talk to strangers. I mean, yeah, so you guys are so old school? 

00:46 - Marni (Guest)

Why would you do that? See, that's 13 years ago. So you still had dating apps when I was just starting. Oh no, I was dating. It was just starting, and I've been with my husband for 21 years. I remember we went for this shoot that he had right before I had my son Cause that's where I got pregnant. That's why I know that. But all of his staff that were there, they were doing a shoot in Brooklyn and they were all on Tinder. Tinder had just come out. This was 15. Oh no, actually, you're right, it was 13 years ago, you're right. 

01:13 - Chase (Host)

We were just dating and Tinder had just started to come out. 

01:16 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, and my husband and I were looking over their shoulder, being like what is this thing? Were like, damn, we'd be so good on this. Like we were both jealous that we couldn't be using these apps because it just seemed so easy. If you had some wit, if you had some confidence, if you could control yourself and you could present yourself well you could like rule on that thing, so I thought that was the most amazing thing that ever was created. So yeah you were around, as it was just-. 

01:39 - Chase (Host)

We got to witness a lot of our friends at the time and you know, tinder then was just basically a hookup app more or less, aren't they all? Yeah, now we know friends that have gotten married or engaged. 

01:48 - Marni (Guest)

You know, from bumble, from tinder, from all these things my sister who's now had a baby like six months ago, uh, she met her partner on bumble as well. 

01:57 - Chase (Host)

So yeah, they do great things there's hope out there for all you people. Absolutely use it correctly oh, okay, let's there. How are people not using dating apps correctly? Because they use it superficially, right. 

02:08 - Marni (Guest)

I mean, that's what real life is like as well. You look at people superficially, but you get the 3D version of them, so the rest of them comes in in the first one to five minutes of having a conversation with them or interacting with them or viewing them from a distance, where you get a more of a three-dimensional view of who that person is. When you're online, you're just looking at like your most ideal ideal of what you potentially think you should or could be with, and that's how you're choosing. You're not really looking at people's profiles, you're not really looking for your preferences, you're not really seeing do I have a vibe with this person? You can't even feel. 

02:42

If you have a vibe with this person, you just say you know, does this make me tingle in some way and am I attracted to it? And in my ideal of ideals, should I be with that person who looks like this Swipe right? In real life it's different. You have so many more moments to actually evaluate that person. So people that you would give a chance to in real life you would never give a chance to online and vice versa, people wouldn't give that same chance back to you. 

03:06 - Chase (Host)

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05:15 - Marni (Guest)

I think yes and no again. 

05:17

If you go into like, just with like with anything, if I go into a shoe store and I think I can have everything and everything's gonna fit my foot, and then you go in there and you're disappointed because this they don't have in your size, this is the wrong color for it. Like, if you go into online dating and you say, okay, I'm using this as one Avenue for me to meet other potential people that are out there that I don't get to come across every single day, I'm going to do it smart, I'm going to look at their profiles, I'm going to see if I'm really attracted to them and then I'm going to initiate conversation, then I think you can have a better experience. But if you again, if you go in thinking the world is my oyster, I can have everything, and then you realize quickly no, you cannot have everything and it's hard not to do that. So when J date first came out came out, that's when I had just started dating my husband. So I was just, you know, messing a little bit with. 

06:04 - Chase (Host)

JJ. At the same time, I wasn't a hundred percent sure about my husband, but I remember going on. 

06:08 - Marni (Guest)

I didn't even put up a profile picture because you didn't have to at that point, you could do a dating app without a profile. 

06:14

Yes, and I was too scared to put a picture up, and I remember I was like, oh my God, there's all these people on here and here's this good looking person, this good looking person, that good looking person and I wasn't looking at what their profile said, I just saw what I thought from their pictures I would like to be with. And then when they would ask for my picture, some people would write me back and some people wouldn't write me back and I'd be like wait a second, am I not attractive enough to be with that person? So I think that's everybody's first venture into online dating and then, hopefully, you get smarter. Instead of getting beaten down, which a lot of people tend to become is beaten down. Most of the guys that I work with. They go on there. They don't get served up a lot of options, or they get served a lot of options in the beginning that they don't get responses back from, they get rejected, they get ghosted or they get scammed. So they get very put off of online dating. 

07:02 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, I want to kind of expand on the whole getting a lot of options thing. You know, let's which I think at first glance would be great on a dating profile. I put myself out there and you know, by the end of the week I've got I don't know 10 responses. You would think, oh, that's, I've got 10 people interested in in dating me. Do you find that it actually helps or hinders guys? 

07:21 - Marni (Guest)

more so in the dating world right now is there's that they have that positive like too many options and not not to just keep saying too many options but you know, is getting. 

07:28 - Chase (Host)

I think that can't 10 people back in one week, because who, who was getting 10 dates in one week before? 

07:34 - Marni (Guest)

I don't know. I feel like a lot of people who did go out socially and like, made the effort to get 10 dates, did get that same feedback. But you're absolutely right. I think that that can't see that the guys that I work with don't have those problems. 

07:46

They have those problems after they start working with me, so they're they're very like, happy and welcome to have it, and then they can pick and choose, and then but I, I do I do think that it does become. What is it? Analysis by paralysis yeah. So I think that when you're like, yes, I have all these options, I'm on a date with you. No-transcript. 

08:30 - Chase (Host)

I do think you can. 

08:32 - Marni (Guest)

I'm not like a scientist at all, but I could see how that would be a problem. Again, not a problem for my clients and welcomed once they have all the options. 

08:41 - Chase (Host)

Good problem to have, I guess. 

08:43 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, there are worse, unless it's biting you in the butt and you find that you can't get into a relationship afterwards because you're always thinking there's something better out there, and then that's something you have to recognize for yourself. If that's the pattern that you're having is right I can't seem to meet a good person, or this person is so good and you acknowledge that you're thinking there could be something better. I mean just that acknowledgement on its own means that it's impacting you in some way. 

09:05 - Chase (Host)

So true, so true, absolutely yeah. If at first glance we're looking at someone you know, guys, you know on an app or in real life, and we're going they're not my type at first again, at first glance, but they, they still hit on you, they're kind of making, making a move, or you're getting some kind of rapport, how do we stay interested? Because, you know, I think it takes initiative, it takes courage for anybody to kind of put themselves out there. But again, if at first glance they're not your type, how are we going to stay involved, just to at least give them a fair chance? 

09:37 - Marni (Guest)

I mean, I don't know if you always have to give people a fair chance if you're not interested. 

09:40 - Chase (Host)

Oh damn. 

09:45 - Marni (Guest)

I mean, isn't that the truth? Unless there's something where you're saying to yourself I'm enjoying this conversation, but I'm not attracted to you. I want to give it a few more moments to see if there is some attraction there, and then you can view the conversation in different directions. You could even do that, If there, if you're having a conversation with somebody and you're not sparked by what they're saying to you, you could viewer the conversation in a direction that will give you more information to see if there is something there. So, for example, if you're on a date and you're like I was attracted to you initially, not enjoying this conversation, maybe she's nervous, or maybe he's nervous like vice versa. Let's see what I can throw their way in order to bring up the conversation. So, bringing up something that you're really interested in, something that you're passionate about, or a value of yours, to see how they respond and that can pique your interest in some way. But I would say I don't know. I feel like most people do do have a connection, right, there's something that's keeping them intrigued where they don't really have to force it. There may not be the same level that they like. I'll give you, I'll give a story. 

10:49

So my sister-in-law she got divorced like seven years ago and she started dating afterwards and she had met this guy at a barbecue through her friend. They had a really good time. They were flirting with each other, back and forth conversation. He asked her out. She went on a date with him. She called me from the bathroom and she said Marnie, this guy is such a dud, he is just talking about himself the entire time, Not the guy that I met at that barbecue. 

11:11

He was asking me questions at the barbecue. He doesn't care about what I think. What do I do? How do I get out of this? And I said to her he might be nervous, he might've gotten guidance to say don't leave any awkward silences. To say don't leave any awkward silences. And again, he's probably nervous as well because you're, she's an attractive woman and he wants this to work. You're in a very focused environment where it's just like an interview mode, because there's just the two of you and no nothing outside to help create a better atmosphere for you. Why don't you go back to the table, put your hand on his arm, look him in the eye and smile and see if that changes the way that he reacts? Because that can calm him down because you're letting him know I'm into this as well. Like stop trying to impress me, I'm in, I'm engaged. So she did that. She called me about two hours later and she said I just finished a 45-minute makeout session in my car. 

11:59 - Chase (Host)

I did what you said and it worked. He calmed down and it shifted it. 

12:03 - Marni (Guest)

So there are times like where there are nerves in place. But if, if in your first interaction you're not enjoying somebody, I think that that means something. It just means there's there isn't a match there. Like same thing for a job interview. You can kind of tell if you vibe well with somebody. Sometimes you're wrong. You can vibe really well in an interview and that doesn't work out long, long-term. But I just think if there there's there's nothing to keep you there to continue trying. I don't think you need to force yourself to always continue trying and make an effort, unless you're trying to do it for practice. If you are like the guys that I work with, they're trying to work on becoming more charismatic, having better conversation skills being more flirtatious, taking risks in conversation. 

12:48 - Chase (Host)

Maybe their old habit is bailing too soon or not taking any risks. So it's kind of like retraining, reconditioning Exactly Old norms. 

12:55 - Marni (Guest)

And you used to train before, so, like you understand, you have to work your reps right. In order to get better at something and stronger at something. So, if you want to use things for practice right now because you also may be, mr Stiffy right, that was a way that I just said it. 

13:07 - Chase (Host)

Well, maybe it's a different podcast now. Maybe the ding goes well on. Yes, exactly. 

13:10 - Marni (Guest)

No, but you know what I mean. Like girl or guy, I'm speaking to both people that are listening Like you may not be showing up the way that you should be showing up. So I would say, like, use that for practice, to work your new skills that you're trying to learn or trying to show or trying to hone for yourself, so that you can create more interesting conversation and you can spark something better in somebody else. It might be that you're the boring dud and that you're not pulling anything out of them. 

13:37 - Chase (Host)

Very true, very true. Maybe just I hear this more often. I don't know if it's actually true or not, but I feel like women, more so than men, can get there if they're first not attracted to them. Like if a woman sees a man and go, oh, he's not my type, there's no real immediate physical attraction. They can find more ways to find attraction to them by everything. Really, you were just saying versus with a guy and there's no immediate physical attraction. 

14:03

I don't really know a lot of guys that are like yeah, you know, she kind of just grew on me. 

14:07 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, her personality was dazzling, so suddenly she was beautiful. 

14:10 - Chase (Host)

I mean maybe, but I don't hear it as often. Is that true, you know? Why do you think that is? 

14:13 - Marni (Guest)

I don't hear that as often Again, not a scientist, but I know from I've interviewed about men the wonderful thing about women is that their perception of you can shift when you shift. So when I mean I even have that now where I'll be out somewhere and I see a guy and maybe I label him in my head as not so attractive, and if he comes over and talks to me, something like really magical happens. It's like his face morphs in front of me and if I find him more attractive through the way that he's presenting himself, the way that he carries himself the conversation that he has, how he has conversation, if he's witty, these things can start to shift how I see him is that? 

14:53 - Chase (Host)

because at first it's basically he just showed you confidence by coming over to you. Is that kind of well? 

14:58 - Marni (Guest)

that's one thing but then if he carries himself really well he's got great body language, he makes good eye contact, he really witty, he follows my lead I'm like a banterer. So if I'm throwing some jabs out and he picks up on the jabs and jabs right back, I'm like Ooh, okay, that again it's like sparking my brain, so it's hitting me on multiple points and then again it's like a face shifter. 

15:19 - Chase (Host)

So you're saying, if a guy does this stuff, we can actually become more attractive to women? 

15:23 - Marni (Guest)

Yes, oh, my God, I've had. I've had it happen that way and I've had it happen the opposite. So I remember being out with my friend Jessica and she said oh, Marty, you're a wing girl, Go introduce me to that guy. And I was like, well, I do this for guys, but I can do it for you. So sure, let's go over and talk to a girl, to a guy, and then it's like here, you guys talk, and so they were talking, and then two minutes later I saw her looking over at me, giving like help me eyes like very subtle. So I was like, oh okay, what's wrong? So I went over, saved her from the conversation and I was like what happened? He was so cute, she goes, he's the most boring person I've ever talked to. He's very good looking, but, but she's like that was a horrible guy. Like right away it shifted for her. She was like ready to do anything for him and suddenly she's like no, this person is not my type at all. 

16:09 - Chase (Host)

All right, fam. So my interview today, with Marnie at the core, really talking about how to get the girl or how to get the guy, or how to put yourself out there so that your sexual life, your relationships, your intimate partnerships become less scary and I can tell you from personal experience a lot of that starts with just feeling on, feeling your best, feeling confident, feeling like you look good, feel good, and while there are a lot of different things that go into that, I firmly believe for guys, especially getting into our late twenties and thirties, some of that can possibly be attributed to our testosterone. Let's get real for a second. If you've been feeling off lately, maybe you've noticed some unexpected weight gain, maybe your workouts aren't hitting the same, your sex drive has tanked, or your energy is just gone and you can't put your finger on it. It could be more than stress or just getting older. It could be your testosterone. See, testosterone is mission critical for men. It impacts everything from our muscle mass to our mood, to our metabolism and libido, and the only way really to know what's going on is you got to get your blood work done. 

17:16

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18:31

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20:34 - Marni (Guest)

The interesting thing as well for guys, like for guys who are in the friend zone if you give some time and space with somebody that you're in the friend zone with usually about two to three months, depending on how long you've been friend zone for and you come back more confident, having some boundaries, being a little bit cocky, a little bit witty, you can totally change her perception of you. You can totally do that, and you're right, Men, the other way doesn't work as well. 

20:58 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, okay, go, you can totally do that, and you're right, men can't. The other way doesn't work as well. Yeah, okay, go, go a little bit more there for us, because I think that happens to a lot of guys. They get more friend zone than women yeah relationships and it. This is you kind of. It's a story as old as time, right? You know, I've been in love with her for years, ever since middle school, but I've just been friends and yeah, I've never done anything. 

21:13

Yeah, how do I get out of that friend? So how do I get the girl to view me as more than just a friend? 

21:19 - Marni (Guest)

I'm hearing you say it's we need to kind of go ghost distance and time, because distance and time lets her reset her vision of you and then it lets you properly reset who you are by doing some work on yourself. Like you, if you came back a week later and suddenly were like jokey and flirty and witty, it would seem very inconsistent to her. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but it feels like incongruent and inconsistent and false. But if you take three months where lots can happen in three months, especially depending on your age, if you're really young, and you take three months off to go travel somewhere or go have a work experience or go do something else, you can totally come back a whole new person. 

22:00 - Chase (Host)

It's the summer that I got hot, exactly yes, the summer I got pretty. You work on yourself, you know, do whatever you want to not come back viewed as the friend A hundred percent and then, but you have to alter. 

22:11 - Marni (Guest)

you have to alter the way that you present yourself, and it's not saying that you have to fake it, but sometimes fake it till you make it. But use new things, challenge her, tease her, and I have many guidebooks and coaching programs that tell people exactly how to do this, with lines they can use so that they have training wheels while they're learning to do this. But you can literally shift the way that she sees you. One other thing that you can do if you're in the friend zone with women depending on the situation of how you have been friend, I'm trying to think actually this works in most cases you can friend zone her, so that's something that really works well as well. 

22:43 - Chase (Host)

What's the benefit of a guy friend zoning a girl? 

22:45 - Marni (Guest)

Because it takes away the neediness that you had for her, the longing that you had for this girl. 

22:52 - Chase (Host)

Oh, so you're saying for a guy to friend zone a girl in order to help yourself cope with the fact that you're actually in the friend zone? 

22:58 - Marni (Guest)

No in order for you to potentially turn around how she sees you oh, it's just another tactic. 

23:03

Yeah, it's another tactic to do it. So, for example, if a guy is in a work situation where he really likes this girl and he's been kind of polite and nice, like Mr Nice Guy behavior and he's not really attempting to flirt or ruffle feathers in any way at all, and he asked this girl to go out, maybe even just in a casual way, and she kind of blows him off a couple of times, the way that he could turn things around is that he comes back to work and he treats her as if he's friend zone her, which means don't give her too much focus time, joke around with her. You can even be like really bro-y with her as well, showing I don't view you as a sexual option for me, so I can do anything I want to in front of you, obviously with all respect, not being an asshole, sorry, not being a jerk, okay, um. And then you can start talking to her about other women, getting advice about other girls, friends on her. So if you're, she's gonna, if she wants to be your friend, let her be a good friend, and then you can use that as a way to shift her around. 

24:06

But what it really does is it resets your mind. It puts you into a different space where you're not as needy. You're actually being yourself and you're like. I know people make fun of this, of the statement of just be yourself, and I roll my eyes at it too, but when you do things like that, it allows you to actually get into the space to just be yourself, the yourself that you are in front of your really good friends, so that you can showcase who you are and then she can actually get to select you properly, because you're not being this like muted version of yourself anymore. 

24:37 - Chase (Host)

What is it about a guy talking about other girls in front of a girl that makes that girl want the guy even more? 

24:46 - Marni (Guest)

What is it about it? I don't even know how to put it into words, because I know how it feels. It just feels like. 

24:54

I'm missing out on something. I'm not going to get it. That woman is special, and I'm sure there are women who are rolling their eyes right now, but I'm not going to get it. That woman is special and I'm I'm. I'm sure there are women who are rolling their eyes right now, but I'm trying to describe the feeling. The feeling is just like I want to. I want you to view me that way, or I want to be that person that's at the top of the tier for you. Even though I didn't want you before, I still want to be in that position. There's like. It's like a feeling. It doesn't always work. It's not. It's not a guarantee that this will happen. It's just the ways to increase the opportunity for it to happen. 

25:28 - Chase (Host)

Do you think girls want to be viewed that way, Even if they know that they have no interest in dating the guy? They just want to know that they're also being viewed in the same way. I mean, I'm going to say yes. Why. 

25:44 - Marni (Guest)

I don't know. I really don't know. I do not know. Like again, I'm not a scientist. I don't know why. I don't know why I want this. Is it insecurity? Is it daddy issues? Is it like I don't know? Is it because I didn't get certain toys when I was young? I have no idea. I just know that I want that. I want to be seen as the best girl in that room, the one that most guys will choose. That's what I want. I don't know why I want it. I don't know if I still really want that. I definitely did when I was younger and when I was single I wanted that. 

26:08 - Chase (Host)

This reminds me of the scene, one of my all time favorite movies, but also, I think, great dating movie is Crazy, stupid Love. 

26:16 - Marni (Guest)

Oh. 

26:16 - Chase (Host)

I love that movie. I watch that movie anytime yeah every day. 

26:18

And you know spoiler alert you know ryan gosling's like this. You know suave single guy and he meets steve carell, who's going through a divorce, at this bar. Yeah and uh, it's not unique to this movie, but you know, basically he's saying, hey, if you want to talk to that girl over there, talk to her friends around her. Yeah, like basically talk to everyone else but her, yeah, and that will get her more interested than you. It's like going to the friend next door, kind of thing. 

26:43 - Marni (Guest)

A hundred percent. That's. That was the beginning of my business. I I was the wing girl. So 21 years ago I started my business where I would go out with guys in teams of two and we would go pick up women with him and help him look good to other women. That was. It was based on exactly what you just said. He's there with women, so it validates him, we make him look good and it creates some competition a little bit of competition for that man. 

27:14 - Chase (Host)

So is that like a pro tip here? If a guy wants to get the attention of women more out in public, if people are still doing that, you know, go out with other women. 

27:24 - Marni (Guest)

I think that's always a great thing to do, no matter what. I think I should be friends with women and go out with other women. I think that, like I don't, I don't want to come across as like a pickup artist where I'm saying everything's a tactic that you do because it's not a tactic, as like a pickup artist where I'm saying everything's a tactic that you do because it's not a tactic, but it is something that increases your attraction levels. If you are, if you are there with a couple of guy friends and a couple of girlfriends and you're having fun, you're being playful with women and there's other women watching you. They don't know what your relationship is, they just see a group of people having fun. They see you in your best element. Is that the? Am I saying that right? Are you in your best element? 

27:59 - Chase (Host)

Is that the am I saying that? 

27:59 - Marni (Guest)

right, are you in your element, in your element, in your element, right? You're smiling, you're joking around, you're poking girls on the shoulder, you're like tickling girl, whatever it is. They see you in that space and that's how their first impression of you is being evaluated, versus you sitting alone at a bar sipping on a drink. It's like it. It's like two, two different visions that people can have of you. 

28:20 - Chase (Host)

One is where ryan gosling would say sip, sipping on a tiny schvanz, get rid of the straw. 

28:25 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, I'm gonna watch that movie. I know, I just thought about that job. I can't show it to my children yet, but one day I will be better than the gap. Be better than the gap oh, you really know this movie. 

28:36 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, I watch it a lot, yeah, yeah uh, he's just so cool, he is so cool, he's so cool he is so cool. 

28:42 - Marni (Guest)

I will say so, like I, I started 21 years ago. I came up in the pickup artist era so that was the only advice that was being given to men, and so I have like a knee-jerk reaction to not to ryan gosling, because actually I love a lot of the advice and guidance that he gives, but there's some, there are some people who take it too far into a pickup artist territory and I do believe it's about the intent that you have. If your intent is really to sort of win over women, objectify women, use women, then I don't like these tools and skills being used in that space. But if your reasoning for using anything psychological is I just want to broaden my scope for who is attracted to me and who I'm attracted to and I'm going to use it because I can have great experiences with women and also give them a great experience, then then I'm down for those tactics you say you came up in kind of the era of the pickup artist, as if the pickup artist is dead, is is the game over. 

29:51 - Chase (Host)

Is pickup artist still a thing? 

29:53 - Marni (Guest)

I don't. I, I just don't hear about it as much. I don't people, I don't hear people identifying with that community. I like when I, when I do my youtube videos and I say that term, like is that an outdated term? 

30:03 - Chase (Host)

I don't actually know, are guys still considered players like? Is that still a thing? I think it is playing, the game playing. I think it's definitely considered. 

30:08 - Marni (Guest)

I watched this television show on amazon the other day called like unconsciously or something, and they're like such douchebags on this show. So there's definitely players out there still who are just like, yeah, let's get, like, let's get laid, which is fine, like it's totally fine to have that mentality. I don't. It's just I think the manosphere has kind of taken over for pickup artists because it's expanded and made it more mainstream. Like pickup artistry was more underground before, where now the manosphere, I think, has taken over that space. So it's like pickup artistry is part of that space as well. 

30:43 - Chase (Host)

What was a unique about the pickup artistry world? You think that actually still can hold some weight in today's dating game. 

30:51 - Marni (Guest)

I think it had some unbelievable advice in there. It was all based in psychology. It was all based in trial and error. I'm friends with many people who were the Kings in that space. The amount of practice and effort that they put in to creating these routines, figuring out what worked and what didn't work, was just absolutely amazing. Again, it was their intent, it was the way that they used it and for a lot of the guys that were in that world who I'm not friends with, many of them are really angry at women and so they used it against women, not just to enhance the experience for everybody, just like not to give them a leg up so they have better options. They used it to really like degrade women. 

31:38

I used to go I was the only woman in that industry for a very long period of time. I was the first female run and operated company to be part of the or welcomed into the pickup artist world and I would go speak at a lot of the events that they held. And all these men who would get up on stage and start preaching like, do this, do that, do that, don't let a woman do this to you, then they would get off the stage. They couldn't make eye contact with me afterwards. They, they could be great on stage, they could be great in their routine, but they couldn't because that's an act that's in front of you. 

32:06

They couldn't carry themselves yeah, and they couldn't carry that same character into an interaction with another woman. And I will say like at that time there was no other space for men to be getting advice and guidance on this stuff, so that was the only thing that was available to men. So men it was it's not very attractive, or back then it wasn't attractive for men to say I need help in attracting women. That's why it was kept very underground where women can say like I need help, tell me okay. Well, there's 20 articles that I can give you, 20 magazines you could read about the five things here, the five things there. Men didn't in the past I think they do now. They didn't have that same space to be able to openly and confidently say I need some assistance. 

32:50 - Chase (Host)

The times they are changing. They are, and I think it's wonderful. I think so too. Yeah, I've heard you talk about how one of the top turn ons you see, or you feel as a woman, is when a guy is confident, not cocky. So how do we skirt the line there, or make sure we're not crossing the line of being confident and not cocky? 

33:09 - Marni (Guest)

Cocky, I'm kind of OK. I am a little bit OK with it's egotistical. 

33:13 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, so there's like a level of cockiness that women are OK with. 

33:19 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, it's OK. Yeah, yeah, because I think, like it's okay to think that I'm really good at something. It's okay to be proud of who and what you are. It's when you're egotistical or you're disrespectful to somebody else, or you put somebody else down in order to feel good about yourself, that it's. It's not really that's degraded. 

33:37 - Chase (Host)

That's not cocky, yeah that's insecurity, exactly. 

33:40 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah. So I I'm not a fan of that at all, but I'm definitely a fan of you know, being like not jokingly cocky, but like obviously cocky if you're again. I feel like when you're like the real cocky is like arrogant and egotistical, and that's yes, that's, that's fed in by insecurity so that's not real. 

34:01

We can pick up on that yeah, but like when you're kind of cocky and like joking around and you like have a smile with it, and you know I'm not really taking myself that seriously, but I'm gonna say it anyway I think that's okay I think it's, I think like it's, that's attractive and very sexy. It's like I'm in on the joke too and I I get it, but I can pull it off, I see. 

34:18 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, If a guy feels like maybe he's getting feedback from from women or even his peers in the dating space, uh, you're too cocky. How can a guy kind of down throttle from cocky to confident? 

34:29 - Marni (Guest)

Well, it depends who's telling him this. So I would take all of that information lightly. So if you, if you're getting feedback from women, um, that you're interacting with and they're liking what you're doing, they're responding well, you're enjoying yourself, and your female friends say you're too cocky, or your guy friends say you're too cocky, just be like no, it's this, this is perfect, as long again as you're not hurting these women, you're not leading them. Whatever it is, it's like everybody's having a good time and good experiences. Whatever you're doing is attracting other people and it's working okay. So it's I like I would need more context into who's labeling it as too cocky. 

35:07 - Chase (Host)

if you're not getting women and they're hating you, then you shift well, let's, let's just go with um, a woman you're trying to date gives you feedback that uh, I, I feel like you're too cocky. How can a guy use that information differently from his guy? Friends are telling him yo bro, I think I think you're too cocky. 

35:25 - Marni (Guest)

That's why you're not getting the dates or keeping the dates kind of thing, then you can shift it, and then you have to really think about the things that you're saying. 

35:30 - Chase (Host)

So it really matters if it's coming from a I think a date or a guy both. 

35:33 - Marni (Guest)

If you get that feedback from the woman that you're dating and the woman says, like I really like you when you're you, but when you like, slip in these really cocky comments, I don't like it very much, then you got to pay attention to that right, because you, there's probably something that you need to adjust, because that means you're being like a little bit egotistical, a little bit arrogant. 

35:53 - Chase (Host)

She'd have to give more context. 

35:54 - Marni (Guest)

I would ask for more context too. And she's like okay, tell me more about like when I am being cocky so that you understand more about it. I would take that as something to take in. If your friends say it as well, because you're not doing very well and maybe it's ruining their game by you being too cocky, I would take that to heart as well. Really thinking about like what, what is it that you're doing? How are you putting yourself out there? Where are your jokes coming from? Are they putting people like? 

36:18 - Chase (Host)

that's when you have to really look at what it is that you're doing do you think there's any scenario, or can you think of any example, where a guy might be doing something that he feels is just me being confident, but objectively it's coming across cocky there's a million different scenarios. 

36:31 - Marni (Guest)

What do you think? 

36:32 - Chase (Host)

is the most common thing a guy is doing that he feels is exuding confidence, but to everyone else it's like no, you're being cocky oh, when he's talking about his accomplishments, about, I hate it I hate it too there's certain people who, like, do it really well. 

36:44 - Marni (Guest)

We have, um, actually this will air after this happens, but people can watch the replay. We have zach broman who's coming on to our show and he's talking about storytelling. He's we're doing a master class, not our show, sorry. All right, he's doing a masterclass for my audience of guys on telling stories. Because there are some people who, just like they, can weave in such amazing things into their stories. They can, they can make their stories engaging. They can weave in their status level, they weave in their value, they weave in their wit, they weave in vulnerability all into, like one story and it just comes across so wonderful isn't that called charisma? 

37:20

it is charisma. But there's other guys who can tell a story, who, where I can, just I'm good at giving feedback when it is becoming cross, too arrogant, not necessarily telling you how to do it zach will tell them how to do it but there are many guys who are just like, yes, okay, so I have to tell, I have to show my status, I have to show that I'm a leader, I have to show that I'm vulnerable, and and then they don't pull it off correctly so I can give the feedback to say you're not pulling it off correctly, try doing this instead. I can't necessarily say what it sounds like to you, but but an example and this is going to be really extreme would be like, yeah, when I was at camp, like all the girls really thought it was so hot all the time, so like everybody tried to like make out with me. It was very uncomfortable, um, but kind of a big deal. 

38:02

Yeah, I'm kind of a big deal, although sometimes something like that could actually come across as intriguing and sincere, so I'm not pulling it off very well, but we've all heard people where we're like rolling your eyes, saying like, why are you telling me this? It doesn't have anything to do with the story and you're just trying to position yourself a certain way where other people weave it in much more seamlessly. 

38:22 - Chase (Host)

I could go on for ages about how that is one of my biggest pet peeves with, I think, just the general public right now as people. If you have a conversation with someone and they don't ask you a single question, they don't ask you about your life or anything, and it's just me, me, me, I, I, I, I cannot check out fast enough from that conversation or that relationship, that friendship. 

38:41 - Marni (Guest)

I'm the same, but so many people tend to do it. I don't know why. 

38:44 - Chase (Host)

Well, you know, I think it's an insecurity because, like one, I think no one's asking them enough to feel like they're getting any kind of you know questions about their life and want to feel like seen and heard and loved, which maybe it's just my bleeding heart for some kind of people, but also I'm just like, oh my God, like you think that highly about yourself. 

39:06 - Marni (Guest)

No, they don't think that highly about themselves. That's the thing. Like that's, that's how I read it. When people talk that way, all I think is I feel sad, you, I, you don't feel good enough around me. And then I think, like, what am I doing to make them uncomfortable? I do, I think that way. So. So I have this one friend who was kind of like a friend of me because because of this exact behavior where we'll talk, we have really good conversations about things that we really like, but it is mainly like focused on her. She never asked me a single question. I tried to interject sometimes, but she cuts me off and then so I don't enjoy the conversation. I feel like sort of depleted after we have a conversation. But then I realized I never give her the feedback that shut up and like let me ask a question, or shut back and let me say something. 

39:50

So then I'm, I'm to, I'm to blame for it, because I think that she probably walks around the world thinking people really enjoy my conversations because I talk a lot and I'm engaging and nobody ever tells me differently. 

40:02 - Chase (Host)

They're just delusional, marnie, but maybe they're not. 

40:05 - Marni (Guest)

Maybe they should have never been told. You're selfish and start asking some questions, because she'll tell you 10 times how wonderful she is, how nice she is, how she's so good to her. 

40:16

Sorry, I'm spitting on you, she's so good is how she's so good to her Sorry, I'm spitting on you she's so good Like. I find a lot of people who do act like this. They also tell you how wonderful they are, so I know they're trying to reinforce it to themselves. Anyway, my point is it comes from? I think it comes from insecurity, but I also don't think that they've ever been told that they come across that way. I think people just tolerate it. 

40:37 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, absolutely yeah. So everyone out there, stop tolerating it. We don't need any more of these people walking around I know but then what do you do? 

40:44 - Marni (Guest)

Do you just say like, please ask me a question. What is the nice way to say to this friend? Or I guess if it's a friend, you say you know what. I have to be honest with you. Like sometimes when we have conversations I just feel like it's very one-sided and I'd love if you could ask me a few more questions, maybe something like that there's your homework, everybody, yeah, there's your homework and the dating scene, or just with friendships, honestly, yeah, I think well, definitely in partnership, if you notice things with somebody that you are dating cause at some point in your relationship after the gaga phase you're going to know a few notice, a few things that bother you. 

41:15

That is like the recipe right there for asking for slight change or alteration, or at least like enlightenment that something could possibly be tweaked. 

41:24 - Chase (Host)

Okay, and speaking of the dating scene, are people dating more these days just to date around, or do you feel like people are really looking for a soulmate? 

41:34 - Marni (Guest)

So again, I'm only going by the audience that I work with. So the guys that I work with, they're really looking for partnership or they're just they're really looking to throw their hat in the ring? 

41:46 - Chase (Host)

Do you think kind of sidebar or secondary part question of that? Do you think guys, right now more than ever, are actually looking for a soulmate rather than just wanting to date around? 

41:55 - Marni (Guest)

rather than just wanting to date around. The guys I work with are the guys that come to me. That's what they are looking for. That's the thing. I'm not immersed in the dating sphere for all the really confident people out there who are dating 10 times a week already. The people that I work with are the ones who don't have the options that they know that they can get, who get turned down by the women that they want the can get, who get turned by, turned down by the women that they want. 

42:20

The ones who are friend zone, the ones who are labeled as nice guys. These are the guys that we we shift into being, these charismatic men who have tons of options. So when they come to us, they come saying I'm really wanting a relationship, I'm lonely, I want to be with somebody. I've been trying so hard, but I the options are in front of me, or the options that I want are not in front of me, or the options that I can actually have don't want me back. So, from what I'm hearing, they want to end their loneliness and be in relationships or just potentially have options available to them, whether they just want to date casually or be in a long-term relationship. So I don't know that answer. 

43:01 - Chase (Host)

What if I'm a guy and I just want to date? What if, um, for whatever reason, I just I want to date, but I want to do it right. I'm not looking to settle down right now, I'm not looking for a soulmate right now, but I want to date. How, how would you coach a guy to effectively go through dating the proper way? 

43:18 - Marni (Guest)

I mean to be honest. So I would just do it authentically and honestly. Like what you just said is amazing and it's a bit of a challenge to a woman that you're like wife check it out. I'm perfect. 

43:30 - Chase (Host)

Is it cocky or cockiness? Yes, exactly, it's a little bit of both, it's okay. 

43:34 - Marni (Guest)

But like I think that if that's what you're looking to do, then that's what you have to put out there, it's just owning your goal. It's owning your goal Right. So last night I take a stunt class with my son. 

43:46 - Chase (Host)

A stunt class. 

43:46 - Marni (Guest)

Yes, it's like stunts, like in movies, which means I just sit on the side while he does all of his stuff. 

43:51 - Chase (Host)

This is the most LA mom son date thing I've ever heard. I got to sign up for that. It's amazing. 

43:56 - Marni (Guest)

It's a three hour class. It's six to nine on Wednesdays. It's in Culver city. If anybody wants to join, it's fantastic, um, it's so much fun. But so this other guy that was in the class last night he came up to me and he's like I recognize you from some videos. You teach people about dating, don't you? And then he just started like asking me questions. And he's 19 years old, this kid who's in the class, the youngest one in the class, and he's like okay, so what advice would you give to a 19 year old who constantly gets friend zoned? Cause he's like I hear all this mixed information, but here's what happens when I'm with girls that I'm really attracted to. So I usually pretend that I want to be their friend, um, for like a couple of months. And then I try to ask them out and like I'm gonna say why, why are you pretending? And don't, if you're going to pretend, pretend you're a freaking stud who gets tons of girls and has lots of cash. 

44:42 - Chase (Host)

Like, pretend to be that guy at 19, like, whatever it is like just stop pretending to be a friend, like, don't like even at 19,. 

44:49 - Marni (Guest)

be authentic about what it is that you want. It doesn't mean you sit down and you say I am looking for a relationship and I would like to have sex with you by the end of the night. It could in some circumstances where you can be that bold, but mostly you're doing it through the other actions that you have, through the way that you carry yourself, through the way that you have conversations, through the questions that you ask, through the type of date that you set up for the two of you, through the casual nature that you're interacting with her. I can give more specific examples if you want, but but it's really being authentic. And then, as you continue dating, you can even say things like you just said like, listen, I'm just really having a fun time right now. I'm looking to go for experiences. I'm enjoying every second I have with you. Just know that when I'm with you I'm fully present and enjoying every second with you, but also know that right now I am not looking for anything long-term. I'm looking for fun experiences with people that I enjoy. 

45:46

And then it's in the other if everyone's on board and then the person decides if they're on board, if they're like I don't want that, that's not what I'm looking for, then they can make the decision, and they can. If a woman or a man like, let's see who's depends on who's saying making the statement. If they want to walk away saying oh, I was led on, that is. That is their responsibility at that point, because they are getting clear communication about where you are, what you want and what you're trying to do between the two of you, and then they have free choice to do what they want as well. 

46:16 - Chase (Host)

She's so good. She's so good Me. 

46:18 - Marni (Guest)

Yes, you yes. 

46:20 - Chase (Host)

What is something you think most women do on dates that they feel is harmless but actually is a huge turnoff for the guy? 

46:30 - Marni (Guest)

Oh my God, what is a huge turnoff for the guys. Um being coy is a huge turnoff, I would say, on the flip side, not asking any questions is. 

46:43 - Chase (Host)

A girl not asking the guy any questions. 

46:45 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, it doesn't happen very often. Usually it's the complaint on the other side that the women are like I'm leaving this conversation. I'm asking all the questions, this guy is just or this guy is just asking questions, but not really engaged in the conversation. I'm trying to think, you tell. 

47:01 - Chase (Host)

I hope this doesn't offend anybody when a girl is being a quote typical girl it immediately shuts me off, meaning, meaning like coy that caught my attention and being, you know, kind of just very like aloof and just like seeming like just too damsel in distress or saying things that are just blatant insecurities, looking for me to chime in and go like, oh no, what are you talking about? 

47:30 - Marni (Guest)

like these, jeans actually do make you look great like I think it's just maybe a me thing yeah, well, you're a podcast host, so you want to get answers. You want like real stuff, so I understand that that would turn you off. 

47:39 - Chase (Host)

I want truth, I want confidence I want just like say what, say what you mean kind of thing and I understand that's different for everybody and difficult for certain people but yeah, again quote, like just being a typical girl, yeah, and just like saying these things and acting a certain way and just like you know, saying one thing but really meaning another totally see that, I'm just like bye again. 

47:59 - Marni (Guest)

I wouldn't say like, like again with with the amazing men that I get to work with. I don't really hear a lot about turnoffs for like, oh, I hate when girls do this, except for I hate when they ghost me. I hate when they don't respond for a long period of time, like those things are annoying. 

48:17 - Chase (Host)

My wife started to do it when we were dating. Like very, this was maybe like month two we were dating and I was she could tell something was off and I was like just stop playing games, like don't do this, like I'm not playing these games. So if you're going to say this but actually mean another thing. If you're going to do this and want me to do another thing, like I'm not going to do it. So if you can stop playing games, then I'll stick around. 

48:40 - Marni (Guest)

I love that. That's something very similar to what my husband said. 

48:42 - Chase (Host)

Cause. 

48:42 - Marni (Guest)

I remember when we first started dating, as I said, I was still on J data a little bit, so I was still window shopping for other people, but, um, I was like kind of hanging out with other guys too, not doing anything, but kind of hanging out with other guys. And at my husband's 10 years older, and at a certain point I remember he turned to me in the car and he said I know what you're doing, it's okay. 

49:10 - Chase (Host)

It's like you're 10 years younger. 

49:11 - Marni (Guest)

I get it. He's like but this is real, this is really good, and if you want to find out what it can be, then we got to stop the other stuff conversation. 

49:13 - Chase (Host)

I was like okay, I'll pay attention to you and then I stopped. Do you think it's because of an age thing? Because my wife is almost eight years younger than me maybe maybe it's, you know, the guy's a little bit older, mature, and we kind of know more what we want and we can see more of what we don't want more quickly. Yeah, and then we can just, you know, translate that for the girl. 

49:28 - Marni (Guest)

Maybe like I again, I was 24 years old so I also wanted that leadership. That's why a lot of younger women like older men because of that leadership. But I would say if that kind of communication continued through our relationship, I probably wouldn't like it. That one time it got me to turn my head around. But I think better communication later on down the road about things, where she says one thing but she means something else in a relationship, would look something like talking to your girlfriend at the time, or the girl that you're seeing, or your wife, whatever it is, and just say like hey, I just want to let you know I'm all about open communication because that's how I believe relationships thrive. 

50:11

So if you need me to do something, I want you to tell me and don't think I'm going to punish you Like whatever, whatever you think her fears might be to say I always value open communication and I can tell when you're not being perfectly clear. So I am going to call you out on it. I'll do it kindly, but I am going to call you out. I don't know when I see it. I want you to learn that you can come to me and talk to me, and then that's what I would expect, vice versa. So it's like a little bit kinder instead of always being like the bold leader. Yeah, but I like. I like the bold leader. When something's happening and you want a person to snap out of it, you have to hit their primal brain and that hits their primal brain. But once they're paying attention to you, then you can be a little bit softer and kinder, okay direct always works for me, but that's just me me too, and but it doesn't work for everybody, because many people are not comfortable with directness. 

50:59

they have to be trained to be comfortable with honesty, authenticity and then and then directness, cause it can feel too overwhelming for some people. 

51:09 - Chase (Host)

Yeah. 

51:09 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, I've learned that cause I'm very direct and I know that that it can make many people back away. I have many clients who they know my personality, they know I'm like a no BS kind of coach and if I am too direct with them on a call they won't show up for the second call. I've had that happen like seven times throughout my coaching but I know that I was too direct with them. So some, some people are not ready for that directness, so sometimes you have to ease them into it. 

51:36 - Chase (Host)

You know we've been talking about how we meet people in the dating game and how men are out there meeting women and you know apps and all this stuff and back in my day it was a lot of it was in nightlife and I see now it seems like nightlife is just like out the window. In fact, I think this year Los Angeles, one of the biggest metropolitan cities in the world, seemingly notorious for nightlife, was actually rated the worst nightlife in America. Is that true? It's every club I see closing Because nobody's drinking. It's every club I see closing every bar, like it's all shifting to like daytimes or non-alcoholic stuff. Yeah, the whole decline in alcohol. 

52:11 - Marni (Guest)

I got about 9.30, so I'm happy with that. Oh yeah, I'm not against that either. 

52:15 - Chase (Host)

But you know, I think the shifting in the dating world has come with the shifting in nightlife, yeah, and so it seems the whole quote going out scene is really dying down, if not going away entirely. So what are the best options for people to really get out there and meet people, aside from the apps, like we already talked about? 

52:29 - Marni (Guest)

well, the wonderful thing is that so many things are being created in this in place of going to a bar, because so many people are not drinking I just saw. Oh my god, what was it that I saw? There was this event where, oh my god, it was like there was a house there and then they rented a field. It was a non-alcoholic event, but also a cell phone free event, where you check your cell phone at the door. I forget if it was in Chicago or Los. 

52:51

Angeles, but you go there and they have like games set up and then they had spaces for people to hang out and play Frisbee, and I forget what it was called and no one just hangs out anymore. 

53:01

But that's what it is. It's like it's like all there's it, just just like before. It took effort to get dressed, go out to a club. It takes effort to go out and socialize and meet people and find out what's available in your area, and with the internet it does make it so much easier. It does. It really does like go into eventbrite meetup. Those are simple things to get you started and then you get into that world and then you can start asking people about things going on. Like in my area there's penmar I don't know if you know like the penmar um golf course has an event every friday night. 

53:32 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, they had live music, food trucks right on the golf course amazing, it's all single people there. 

53:37 - Marni (Guest)

And then they had um a silent disco at the end of last friday night. So it was so amazing. 

53:42 - Chase (Host)

I love it's absolutely the outside it looks like a bunch of weirdos dancing with no music. You're all dancing with, but you're in it. You're like yes, you're listening to my song and it's like you connect in a way. 

53:52 - Marni (Guest)

So I listen, I'm not a big clubber, so I mean this is like a blessing in disguise that all of this is happening, even though I did go to clubs a lot and that's where I met a lot of people. But I think, like it's, it just takes again concerted effort to find other spaces that exist, and there are so many spaces that exist. There's so many clubs that exist. There's so many communities that exist. Get involved in your church community. They have a million events going on. Um, if you're a person of faith and that's really important to you, get involved in a cycling community, in a hiking community, in a painting community, in a gallery community, in a running club in a I've had in a painting community in a gallery community. 

54:26

In a running club I've had trauma community there's. So the wonderful thing about the internet is that you can find 20 million people that are just like you, who have the same hobbies, the same complaints, the same whatever, and you can loop in with them and they can be your community and hopefully through that you can also meet other people to socialize with that at least are like-minded or like the same thing, and if you can't find it, here's your opportunity to create it. 

54:48

Exactly, I love that. Yeah, that's what I always say as well. So I'm glad that you said that, because I work with a lot of guys too who say, like I'm in a really small town, there's nothing going on. I said, great, make it happen, start. Everybody else is bored too. So I'm sure, right, do it. But then again, that makes that is effort. 

55:10 - Chase (Host)

If you think you're the only person that's into this thing or wants to do this other thing, I guarantee you you're not alone. You're not alone. You're just not trying hard enough to find somebody else. 

55:15 - Marni (Guest)

Exactly and I get that that it's. It is a lot of effort and I will say like, if you want to be successful in anything specifically dating or even being a social person, it takes effort. Like friends that I know who are really great with friendships and really social doesn't just happen for them naturally they put a ton of effort into it, into making it happen. 

55:35 - Chase (Host)

Following up with friends, texting friends, planning events for people, throwing parties at their house that takes effort to do all those I have reminders in my phone of key people that I don't want the relationship to suffer and I'm like, oh that's amazing, Text him, get coffee with her, do these follow ups. It's basically a CPM for friendship. 

55:52

It's kind of sad that we're in a place in the world where you have to have these reminders for friendship, but especially here in LA, everyone's just three sheets to the wind all the time and if you don't make effort, no one else will. 

56:01 - Marni (Guest)

A hundred percent, everyone is 100%. My husband does that with me as well, like give Marnie a compliment. Marnie's getting her period now. 

56:07 - Chase (Host)

She needs a hug. 

56:09 - Marni (Guest)

But I mean, these things help. They're just, they're all tools and that is about making effort. You can just say, oh, I'm going to be natural at everything and then screw up completely and, you know, destroy your relationship, upset your partner. Or you can be a good partner who on a Tuesday checks in because it said so in your calendar. I'm just saying like I love you and that's amazing. They don't have to know it's in your calendar. 

56:29

I happen to know it's in the calendar, because I have it in my calendar too, I think. I think it can be wonderful. There's too many people who want everything to be natural, want everything to be effortless, and don't realize that real success in any area of your life takes absolute effort. That's the one thing that I'm teaching to both of my boys you want something done, you do it yourself, you make an effort, and I want you to grow up to be fully capable men. I have many clients that I work with who they get on to their onboarding call with us. We have like an eight-week coaching program that we have called the Inner Circle and they get on to their onboarding call and the first half an hour is spent them trying to figure out Zoom. 

57:05 - Chase (Host)

Come on yeah, after COVID still. 

57:08 - Marni (Guest)

Yes, exactly. And my wing girl will say women want men who are capable. By our next meeting, I'm sending you three videos. I want you watching them. I want you to figure out how to use Zoom, and this is your first challenge, because you have to learn to use Zoom. You have to learn to. I don't like technology. Well, you need to if you want to date in this world, or you have to find other resources that are non-technology based and tell me what they are at the next time that we speak. Like, if you don't like something, then find other resources, don't just back away from everything completely. 

57:37 - Chase (Host)

Mm-hmm. One quick little hack to wrap up this other point about uh effort with relationships. This is my secret sauce for uh, my cpm for friendships. Every friday, every friday, I venmo a random person in my contact list no, you don't ten dollars and I say happy friday, coffee's on me no, that's really sweet yeah that's really nice. I'll miss a couple here and there, but it'll be uh well. Watch out uh past podcast guests or a friend, like they could be local, they could be across country. 

58:08

I'll, just, I'll, literally just like do a couple of scrolls in my text. I'm like who haven't I talked to in a while and I'll Venmo them seven to $10, depending on where they are how many. 

58:16 - Marni (Guest)

if they're in Chicago, they have four yeah. 

58:18 - Chase (Host)

Right. 

58:23 - Marni (Guest)

If will this get you a little sometimes yeah. 

58:25 - Chase (Host)

And it goes miles with friendships and it's just like a little you know. Investment in the friendship. 

58:30 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, that's so nice. I think that's really nice. I will never do that, but that's very nice. 

58:34 - Chase (Host)

Watch out Marnie Friday, I know seriously, you might be getting a little coffee on me, I know. 

58:39 - Marni (Guest)

It's such a nice thing so we've been talking dating. 

58:41 - Chase (Host)

Now let's get into. You know what a lot of us are probably going to experience, and that's a breakup. Yeah, what's the best way to get ourself back out there after a breakup? 

58:50 - Marni (Guest)

after a breakup you gotta become well. It depends how long you were seeing that person for, but I would say you have to spend some time working to get back to the I so that you're not dating as a we and it's going to happen anyways. You're still grieving, grieving after you break up, but you do. You need to adjust back to who am I as an individual. So I work with a lot of guys who are divorced, so they're with people the biggest breakup the biggest breakup ever. 

59:13

So they have kids. So they're still kind of like the old weed. They're still tied to it in some way. But um, and they've been in a relationship for a very long time and they've also gone into a divorced space, which means that they've been beaten down. Now I'm not saying like the wife is beating them down, but maybe the wife is beating them down and vice versa. They're doing it to them to a place where they're like I'm not sexy, I can never say anything right, I'm not a great man anymore. So they need to refine themselves. 

59:39 - Chase (Host)

They're so dressing at the gap. Yeah, exactly, be better than the gap we already went over this Exactly. 

59:44 - Marni (Guest)

So they need to really rebuild themselves again. And some guys are like, okay, I've done a little bit of this. I've got, you know, some new outfits, new style. I'm not dressing like a dad anymore. I look like a really attractive, sexy man. I'm going to the gym again. I feel good, my health's in a good space, I'm reading some books, I'm listening to podcasts. Like my head feels really good. I'm not in the we zone anymore and I'm ready to be in the I. There are also many people who are like I've been thinking about this for the past 10 years. I've been checked out of this marriage. I'm ready to go right away. So, like, my guidance is as long as you are in that space of I and you can set firm boundaries and you're not thinking as a we anymore, then you're ready to go back and start dating. 

01:00:25 - Chase (Host)

I don't know if I heard this from a movie or from my old dating days, but it was basically you're supposed to take one month off for every year that you were in a relationship and take one week off for every month you're in a relationship. Is there a realistic quantified timeline? For if you were in a relationship for this long I don't think so you got to wait until you get back out there for this long. 

01:00:45 - Marni (Guest)

I mean, you could go out there. You could see that you're not ready for it. 

01:00:48

I think it's just whenever you have the urge to go out and try, and then you're like oh, I'm not ready for it, I keep making this mistake, let's go back. I have to work on myself. But, like, I think that those timelines were created for some people because they're like okay, well, uh, every month, for every year that you were in a relationship. That's how long it takes and I feel like that can help people humans work better that way sometimes. 

01:01:09 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, okay, so that makes sense. I'm seven months in. 

01:01:11 - Marni (Guest)

I've been with him for eight years, so it'll take another month to get back to it. I feel like that's just a way to help people cope with it. But honestly, like if I think if I ended my relationship tomorrow, I would be on the apps right away. I wouldn't follow my own advice, but I would probably stumble and fall, I'd make a lot of mistakes, I'd think that I would be a rock star on there and then I'd be like, oh no, I'm not ready for it, and I'd back off and I'd be able to regulate myself. So I would say, once you're not in this needy space of trying to get attention and you really can do these things in a comfortable, confident place, then you're ready to date. 

01:01:44 - Chase (Host)

See what I tell you, smart lady, smart lady, speaking of breakups, yes, is it ever a good idea to get back with your ex? 

01:01:51 - Marni (Guest)

Yes, when you shift and change, I think it's fine, because I think some people break up because of circumstance, some people break up because of different situations that are going on for different people and if, just like with the friend zone thing, you give time, space and distance, if you come back and people are different and they've worked on themselves, they've shifted things, they've changed perspectives, they have a new lease on life, they maybe don't have that job anymore that was totally bogging them down and distracting them from being a good partner to you. I think you can totally revisit relationships, but nobody wants to get back together with the same person. 

01:02:26 - Chase (Host)

Do you think there's a difference or what would be the difference in terms of approach If I'm a guy and I broke up with my girlfriend, but I'm realizing later on, after you know I did all the things you just said and I want to get back with her, is there a different approach for me getting back with my ex when I'm the one that broke off the relationship or she broke it off with me and now it's kind of like me trying to win her back? 

01:02:47 - Marni (Guest)

Right, yeah, for sure, because one you're in control and one you're not in control, or seemingly in control of. 

01:02:52 - Chase (Host)

So how do we win back the ex compared to? Well, it depends why you broke up. 

01:02:55 - Marni (Guest)

Right. So if you broke up because you are emotionally immature which is usually why a lot of breakups happen from the females of the woman, which is usually why a lot of breakups happen from the females of the or women again, I'm not going to say gender proper things but like from a woman breaking up with a man it's most often because of lack of communication and emotional maturity. So if you you go and you learn how to be a good communicator and you understand now where you were falling short, you can go back and you can communicate that to her. That's the first way to show that you're a better communicator. You know what I realized throughout our relationship? I was shit at communicating with you. It was horrible. I did this, I did this, I did this and now I've really looked at myself and understand how I can improve on that and how it's hurting all my relationships. 

01:03:44

I've taken this course. I've read this book, I've listened to this book. Whatever it is, you state it, you state where you are and you see if she is open to potentially letting you back in in some way. She's going to be wary at first because words are just words. Actions mean a lot more. But if she lets you back in a little bit and you can show that you've learned the thing that she was missing before, then that can potentially open her up to letting you back in. All these things aren't guarantees, they're just door openers. They're just increasing your opportunities and your chances and that's that is the most like likely way to get another shot if you're not broken up over it, is there any chance of a relationship surviving cheating? 

01:04:32

Yes, and only because I know many relationships that have survived cheating. 

01:04:37 - Chase (Host)

What does it take to survive? What does it take for a relationship to survive? 

01:04:40 - Marni (Guest)

someone cheating. I've never had that experience so I don't know firsthand how it feels Someone cheating I've never had that experience so I don't know firsthand how it feels. But one of my best friends, um she had just had her first child and had just found out, like all this stuff about her husband um that comes from trauma and comes, but he was cheating anyway. But she was able to really move past it and forgive how I do not know. She's just a better person. 

01:05:09 - Chase (Host)

Do you think it's because they had kids? 

01:05:11 - Marni (Guest)

It might have been because they had kids. I don't know how she did it, but she always says, oh, I'm so unemotional. I was like no, you're actually very emotional. You're just really good at processing your emotions and weighing things out. Where I get really lost in my emotions, I'm not as logical she's. She's a little bit more logical with things Like. So I think she processed it. 

01:05:33

She journaled like crazy. She'll always go back and revisit those journals because now they're divorced because he did it again, but anyway, but they were together for six years and it wasn't an issue. And they were the couple that I looked at and it was like, oh, they're going to be together forever. They're like so. And she actually felt it. She was like very in love and very happy with their family. They ended up having two kids, um, and, and then it happened again. And then she's just like, no, no more, it's not going to happen. And then you know, then she thinks differently about things. But she was able to do it and really like, forgive, I, I don't know if I could do that. I'm not that, I'm also. I also can't like I couldn't be in a polyamorous relationship. I'm too. I would get too jealous. I just know I'm not. 

01:06:17 - Chase (Host)

I'm not mature enough well, you have to know yourself, know thyself first and foremost for anything yeah, it's just not my thing. 

01:06:22 - Marni (Guest)

I like monogamy. 

01:06:23 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, a lot do you think there's any difference, or does it give the relationship any more or less hope if the cheater confesses to their partner about cheating versus their partner found out without oh yeah? 

01:06:39 - Marni (Guest)

for sure, if you find out that somebody's lying, you're always I assume, again, I most of most of my advice is from interviewing people, which I don't really talk about this topic, but I should start talking about it, um, or from things I've felt myself, so I have to feel it in my body. I've never experienced that, I've never been cheated on that I know of, or maybe I'll find out soon enough? 

01:07:01 - Chase (Host)

exactly no, but like my husband's, too lazy to do that he would never do do it. 

01:07:05 - Marni (Guest)

But so I don't really know. But I would assume that when somebody doesn't tell you and you find out, that always creates distrust because they weren't forthcoming about it. But if they're forthcoming, you're like oh, you tell me when you make mistakes, so at least I can acknowledge that you will tell me if you do something bad. But I'm still, I would still be fearful, I'm always going to get that conversation Right. 

01:07:29 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, I guess. So Okay, it's still kind of sucks. Would you be able? 

01:07:32 - Marni (Guest)

to survive being cheated on. 

01:07:35 - Chase (Host)

Um, you know, that's a really interesting question. I think about this a lot and I think, like with anything in life, I always say, you know, it depends. I think it depends on how fresh the relationship is. Are you just dating? Are you in love? Yeah, and circumstance, and circumstance, absolutely. I think this is me wanting to believe you know the best in everybody and I firmly believe that if you do experience a betrayal in your relationship and if both parties can get to at least a conversation about it, but also, I think emotions have to be expressed, you know in a safe way, of course, but like, the worst thing you can do in anything in life is to bottle up and I speak from experience here, bottling up experiences like this, and then just that turns into resentment, that turns into you know what do they say? 

01:08:22

um, you know, resentment is like sipping poison hoping the other person gets sick, kind of thing, and so I think, if you can allow yourself and the partner to like just fully express those feelings, I definitely think time and space are going to be important here, but then it's just a matter of getting down to well, what do you want? You know, despite the circumstances if you can navigate those together and honestly, very brutally honestly then if you are clear with what you want and, like I, I want you, then I do think you can find a way through I think so too, but if you're, if you're unclear at that point in the relationship. 

01:08:56

I think that's just going to drive a wedge. 

01:08:57 - Marni (Guest)

You're going to be like no yeah, I agree with you and I do think so. The the more that I'm married and the more that I'm in a longer relationship, I can see that there's like all these gray zones, because I remember when I was 24, I'd be like, oh, if he just let me, it's done, I would never be with him, whereas now I can see how things can happen Like my husband and I had several years after our kids were born where we didn't like each other very much. It was just a lot of tension. We'd have like ups where we'd have moments where it was really great, but I had so much resentment towards him, I had so much anger towards him. It was horrible, it was absolutely horrible. And I felt and I'm sure he did too on his side, lonely, unattractive, and I could see how that distance could if there was. 

01:09:46

If I worked in an office space and didn't work at home, I could see how, if somebody else gave me some attention, how I could lean towards that way, and then it would be a bigger conversation for the two of us of. This was the circumstance. We both participated in this. We didn't work on it. I think we could get back after that to if we both wanted to get into that space, and I can see vice versa on the other side, how that could happen to him If he came and told me afterwards I think we could get back to a good space, and I will say so. After many years of being in that space, we decided to do this. I talked to you last time about this, about this course called safe conversations, which just like, transformed our relationship. Wow, wow Again. That's what got us back to a better space. 

01:10:30 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, again, here we are talking about the plot of crazy, stupid love. I know, just go watch the movie. 

01:10:36 - Marni (Guest)

It really is good. 

01:10:37 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, okay, so great, these have been incredible questions. I mean I could just go on and on and pick your brain on. You know what it is to be back in the dating pool again and do's and don'ts. But to pivot a little bit towards the end here, I actually polled a few of my female friends. 

01:10:53

So I reached out to a few of my married friends and single friends and I asked them some questions that I think are pretty standard in the dating scene, you know, like what's your biggest turn on, what's your biggest turnoff red flags, green flags and so I want to share uh, I picked one set of answers from a married person, a married woman, and another set of answers for each question from a single person. 

01:11:13 - Marni (Guest)

Okay, I want to share them. So all women, sorry, yes. 

01:11:16 - Chase (Host)

So I want to share their answers to dating and have you use their answers to kind of coach guys out there on how to hear this and actually apply it, okay, okay. So I asked them what's your biggest turn on from a guy? And the married woman said being driven and kind, yeah. And the single woman said masculinity Everyone has she's. 

01:11:37 - Marni (Guest)

She likes to talk, so it's like this long yeah, it's a little bit She'll say. 

01:11:40 - Chase (Host)

Everyone has their own definition of that, but I love when a man takes charge and has the confidence to let you know that they want to pursue you, takes the lead in organizing dates and is self-aware. A man that can take accountability without fearing that that will harm their ego is just a chef's kiss. 

01:11:57 - Marni (Guest)

I mean, that was advice right there, so how can? 

01:11:59 - Chase (Host)

I actually hear that Like listen to it, hear it and apply it. 

01:12:03 - Marni (Guest)

Okay, well, tell me where you're having the difficulty under, like taking it in. Where would you, as a man, have difficulty taking that in? 

01:12:10 - Chase (Host)

I think the current place in the world, I think masculinity is like a very scary place for for guys. Uh, you know, are we talk? Are we being? Are we in toxic masculinity? We're being too masculine? Are we not addressing our trauma? We're being too stoic or being too emotional? I do. I do think it's a very difficult time for a guy to be fully in his masculine self this day and age because he's feeling shamed for it, for being masculine, yeah. 

01:12:34

And so I think it's either far left or far right and it's really hard, like there's no middle ground, basically, for a guy to even but I'm figuring that out, I'm figuring out what it means to me to be a man, what I feel like that means and how I want to, you know, exude that into the world, which, if you're dating, I think that could come across very, you know, lack of confidence, be, you know, very not driven, maybe even not kind. 

01:12:57 - Marni (Guest)

Well, that's only when you shut yourself off, right. So I think that's what the difference is there. It's like so you take that advice and you're like okay. It means I don't say anything. That can be. 

01:13:10 - Chase (Host)

I don't want to rock the boat, yeah. 

01:13:11 - Marni (Guest)

Anything that can be negative to the other person versus I'm going to own who I am. I'm really confident in the choices that I make and in the opinions that I have. I'm not going to put somebody down, but I am going to talk about the things that I believe and be very open to hearing the things that they believe as well, and not shy away from my opinions. 

01:13:29

So like. Her description to me is exactly what I would have written as well. Like, just like somebody who takes the lead. So taking lead means that you fair or not fair, double standard or not double standard. This is, this is what attracts women and also what puts the man into a position of being attractive. 

01:13:45

Is taking the lead Meaning that you reach out, you initiate, you flirt, you tease, you ask out on a date, you plan the date? You can still give options of like I've got plans for Saturday, just want to know if you have any food allergies. Or I have plans for Saturday night. I'm going to pick you up at 7. Dress this way. To pick you up at seven. Dress this way, whatever it is that there's there isn't like complete dominance, saying we're doing this. If you want to allow her to be a participant in it as well, you can do that too. Um, leadership means that when you are there for a date, you walk into a restaurant and you put your hand on the small of her back and you guide her through the restaurant. You, you pull out that chair for her and if she's not not into it, you make a joke and you say my bad, I'll just pull the chair out from under you. 

01:14:29 - Chase (Host)

Like whatever you can joke around with her about that I'll pull the rug out from under you next time Exactly. 

01:14:34 - Marni (Guest)

But really, at the end of the day, it is ultimately up to you of how you want to present yourself as a gentleman. What kind of man do you want to be? What kind of man do you want to be? What kind of man do you want to be seen as? How would you want your son to view you? How would you want your son to act? How would you want a boy to treat your daughter Like? I'm talking about guys who are dating at a later stage, but for younger guys as well, it's like which characters do you look at and think like that's a masculine man? So for, to me, masculinity doesn't mean that you are in complete control all the time. You have no emotions whatsoever, you don't listen to anybody's point of view, you are disrespectful towards everybody. That's not kind or masculine. I don't think it is. 

01:15:15 - Chase (Host)

No, I totally agree. 

01:15:15 - Marni (Guest)

So I think, that definition again like teaching people how to be, that is a much longer process if that's a very new idea to them. It's about catching them in certain situations, in the way that they talk about themselves or they talk to other people about things Like so one of the biggest things that we teach men is about reframing the way that they talk about themselves in their head, the way that they talk about themselves to others and the way that they talk about other people. It's about putting positivity out there, putting positive spins on things. So I could say to you oh God, I'm so horrible at being on podcasts, right, and that frames me in a certain way as a little bit weaker, like kind of like the insecurity thing that you were talking about before, of like being very girly or whatever. But so, or I could say, oh, I don't do podcasts that often I'm a little bit nervous, but I know I'm going to have a fun time. 

01:16:09

So it's just a different way of framing these things and, like the guys that we work with, we help catch them in moments where they're putting themselves down so that they can start to see how they're constantly reinforcing this idea that they're less than that they should be ashamed of the way that they think or feel. So we help them spot these things and reframe so that they can present themselves more positively, without going over the top and being like a big old brilliant, brilliant. 

01:16:31 - Chase (Host)

No douchebags up in here, all right. So then I asked them what is your biggest turn off? And my married friend said being rude. And I'm seeing a trend here too. My married friend, she has like two word answers. My single friend, she has small paragraphs. Yeah, she said being rude. 

01:16:46 - Marni (Guest)

She's got more time. 

01:16:49 - Chase (Host)

And then my single friend said inconsistency, yes, something I used to consider a challenge in my younger dating years, but now consider a major turnoff. 

01:16:56 - Marni (Guest)

Yes. 

01:16:57 - Chase (Host)

Also someone who isn't driven and passionate about life, like not wanting to go to the next level or looking to improve themselves in any capacity personally, professionally. So if a guy feels like uh, am I rude or am I being inconsistent? Like how can I hear that? 

01:17:10 - Marni (Guest)

and like tactically change it in the dating, I would just ask people around you if you're, if you're really concerned that that's something that you might potentially be doing. You can say to your friends. You can say to past dates as well and just say, like I want to know if I I'm doing this, I'm trying to be like an amazing dater my goal is to reach back out to people we dated and it didn't work out. If you're really like, is this me, am I doing this we have like a post date survey you should you just fill this out at the end? 

01:17:37

I have a Yelp set up. Can you just like fill it out afterwards? 

01:17:39 - Chase (Host)

You yeah exactly, totally. You should just give it to the card. 

01:17:43 - Marni (Guest)

No, but I mean that's the way that, that if I really wanted to know if I was doing these things, I would ask for honest and blunt feedback and I wouldn't take the first responses that I get. I would positively reinforce to the other people that I want blunt honesty. So take another crack at it, Cause I know you're being too nice and give me the brutal honesty and then you'll get a little bit more from them. Okay, yeah, but but as to how to take that advice, I really believe that noticing is the the the first step to ultimate change. So if you're like, oh, inconsistency, and you pay attention to it and you're like, oh, that was a little bit inconsistent, I just said I didn't like that. And now I said I did like that. And now I said I did like that. Or I said I would call her and I called her that week. But then I said I would call her that week and I didn't call. 

01:18:27 - Chase (Host)

Like actions not lining up with words. 

01:18:29 - Marni (Guest)

Basically, yeah, that's what I mean. It just means it means that I'm inconsistent, like sometimes I'm really nice to her Sometimes. I text her all the time. Sometimes I don't text her that because I'm busy. And if it is because I'm busy, then you say to her I'm so busy this week I'm slammed, but just know I'm thinking about you. Like that's it. It's just like letting people into your head. 

01:18:51 - Chase (Host)

Is that real? I feel like that's such an easy scapegoat this day and age. It takes you know days to get a text back and it's like, oh, I've been so busy, like everyone's busy now. 

01:19:00 - Marni (Guest)

Like that's right, everybody is busy, it's just whoever happens to be a top priority. But if you're in the beginning of dating, where you could say to a woman like this week is slammed, and I'm the kind of guy who, when I give my focus to something, I'm not just doing it because I'm just knocking something off of my calendar. 

01:19:18

Right, I want to deeper into a relationship, you can do that stuff. But in the beginning you just say, like I want to give full focus to somebody. So if we're texting and we're starting to date, I want a full text relationship. So just know, I'm busy. I have a dinner party every night this week, okay. Or I'm working the night shift every night this week, whatever it is, but I'm free on sunday and I will follow up with you all right. And even in the beginning, if you just want to do that to establish like don't, don't, I'm not going to text every day Because that's something that's a problem as well. 

01:19:48 - Chase (Host)

It's like also to let her know what to expect. I'm going to a very busy period. 

01:19:51 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah, so yeah, and that's it. 

01:19:52 - Chase (Host)

Set expectations from the get-go go a long way. 

01:19:56 - Marni (Guest)

And I appreciate that, and I will say my under 30 me. I don't know if I'd appreciate that I, I, I probably would, but I think the disappearance of you, as your friend said, would have been a bit more intoxicating. 

01:20:12

but the over thirties like where, where the hell is this person yeah, this is playing games with me now, if you're okay, we were texting for three days straight and now you're gone for three days Like that's no good. And that's maybe what he would be thinking on the opposite end as well, because, again, as you said, nobody has time anymore. So it is about being consistent. If you're not going to have that same consistent behavior, it's just giving the reason behind it 100% agree. 

01:20:35 - Chase (Host)

My last little section here, before we get to the last question, is the biggest red flag that women see in guys. And my married friend said bad at communicating makes excuses slash, insecure. And my single friend said if the guy says he's never been in love, sure he may not have found the right person, but to me it sends the message that he's not emotionally open, vulnerable or available. So if a guy is going I'm bad at communicating, maybe I feel insecure and the girl's probably picking up on that and also going I've never been in love. Like how can I use these red flags and get ahead of them to turn them into green flags and dating? 

01:21:13 - Marni (Guest)

just use more words, which sucks, because men only have like a limited amount of words that they're supposed to use them or that they can use every day, compared to the amount of words that women use um, so just, but on sentences no, no, just like just just talk to her until she's like I don't want to hear anymore, I can't hear. 

01:21:27

No, but it's just like explain I've never, I've never been in love before I'm 45. I've never been in love before. How, how ridiculous is that? I spent my twenties working on my career, I spent my thirties working on this and now I'm in my forties and I've never actually been in love with somebody, because I didn't have the capacity to do before. But now it's what I want, but I'm open to it, I'm totally open to it. Yeah, and trust you can say like I. You know, I love my family, I love my mother to death. 

01:21:56 - Chase (Host)

Absolutely amazing. 

01:21:57 - Marni (Guest)

I'm capable of it, but just haven't had it in a, but that's more of like a defending, like I'm capable of it. I am, but I guess it's how you phrase it too, but it's really just like it's what I want now. It's giving information and context as to why this has never existed yet before for you, and I will say it's more of a red flag if a woman has never been married or more in love. I don't know why, but I know that it is for a lot of men. I do know that it is that that is a bigger thing. If a woman, if a woman is in her fifties and she's dating a guy and she's like I've never really been in a long-term relationship before. 

01:22:39 - Chase (Host)

Oh, yeah, like. 

01:22:40 - Marni (Guest)

I've never really been in love. 

01:22:42 - Chase (Host)

If you've never been in a long-term relationship after 30, I'm like what's wrong with you. You know what's going on. 

01:22:50 - Marni (Guest)

And there's. There's less leeway, I think, for a woman. I'm trying to think. I would love to hear what her, what the story is behind, why I've never been in love and if there is a better story of you know what. 

01:23:05

For the first 40 years I dealt with my trauma from when I was young. I was horribly like what. I'm sure there there's always context to it. I just I just know from hearing from men that it's a. That is a huge, weird red flag If she's never had that, unless there's context to it. But for for women they can be more forgiving and I actually think that even what I said before that can come off extremely attractive to say, like I spent my first X number of years working on my career, I was completely driven, totally focused on science or on saving the earth or whatever it was that like. 

01:23:35

I'm so center focused on and now I want to put that focus on to you Great, sign me up Like honestly, it's so attractive. Yeah. 

01:23:43 - Chase (Host)

Yeah Well, marnie, if I was dating and I listened to this podcast, I would go damn. This helped me a lot. It's going to help me move forward in my life my dating life, and you know, the whole point of the show is to do that in unique areas of our well-being, to learn how to move forward and, collectively, to live a life ever forward. Those two words, yes. What do they mean to you, marnie? How do you live a life ever forward? 

01:24:03 - Marni (Guest)

Oh God, because I'm always working to improve myself. It's, it is. It is my Achilles heel as well. Right, that's the right term. 

01:24:10

Like like it's my negative and my positive that I'm always moving forward, but that I'm always moving forward and maybe not really happy with the present, although I am pretty happy with the present. But I don't look backwards, that is for sure. But I I like, even even with my husband. That is the thing that that keeps us together and has us getting stronger every single year that we're together. We are both continuously working on making ourselves better, improving things for our children. We don't just settle for okay, that's not working, okay, that's not working. Now we have to figure out how to make it work together and both separately. We do that like my. My husband, um, found out that he has like a gene um, but anyway, you don't need to hear the full details, but it's not very good for him for later on down the road. 

01:24:56 - Chase (Host)

Oh, like a apoe2 gene kind of thing, alpha 1g yeah, yeah, it's like a can be a predict, predictor of, like Alzheimer's dementia a predictor of lung disease and liver disease. 

01:25:07 - Marni (Guest)

So this is this is alpha trips and whatever sky. Totally forget Anyway. But when he heard that, like other people, other people would be like no, that's my death sentence, I'm just going to live my life the way that it is Him. He changed his life around. Now he also. He listened to longevity podcasts all the time. 

01:25:23

He was a person who used to shove his mouth like the most horrible food, and now he's on this path for complete health, which is absolutely amazing, and I feel like I do the same on my end, and then we do the same thing together. So I think um ever forward means like just keep moving forward, keep making effort and keep working on yourself. 

01:25:42 - Chase (Host)

Keep making effort. 

01:25:43 - Marni (Guest)

Yeah. 

01:25:43 - Chase (Host)

Cannot agree more. Yeah, uh, this has been amazing. Thank you so much, you're so good at what you do, much better this time, yes yes, you all don't know this is the second time, because the first time I hated myself. 

01:25:55 - Marni (Guest)

I didn't. 

01:25:56 - Chase (Host)

No, Marnie was even better. Maybe I'll just stitch together the whole thing. 

01:25:59 - Marni (Guest)

You can do both of them together, two M. 

01:26:00 - Chase (Host)

Perfect. Where can my audience go to connect with you now and learn more and maybe even get help in the dating scene? 

01:26:06 - Marni (Guest)

Okay, so this is for men that I'm going to. I'm going to give this to men, but I made them a special little mini course. It's on the five ways to attract women, like learning the five necessarily necessary skills that attract women. So go to F with hercom, slash ever forward and they can get a little free mini class from me. Five videos that teach them all, like all the necessarily too easy necessary things I can't speak that they need to attract women. 

01:26:33 - Chase (Host)

We'll have that in the show notes for you guys and video description box If you're watching on YouTube. Marnie, this was great. 

01:26:39 - Marni (Guest)

It was just great, just wonderful, so much. 

01:26:41 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, for more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode show notes or head to ever forward radiocom.