EFR 885: How The RealReal Founder Turned Failure Into a $1 BILLION Luxury Brand with Julie Wainwright

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Julie (Guest) Before the RealReal, you had to go to a brick and mortar store. You had to sort through a lot of stuff that you didn't really want and then maybe you'd find something your size. But now, when you have thousands of items on the site. When I left, the RealReal was getting in between 300,000 and 500,000 items a month. So if you look at that and you're like, oh, I have this amazing selection of products at my fingertips that I can sort by size, by color, by brand and know that it's been authenticated, it's going to come to me.

00:35 It was too hard before. As a founder with a founder mentality, I mean I knew it was going to work and I was going to stick with it no matter how hard I got. So there is a mindset shift. There's a beauty in having a dispassionate, quality, talented CEO come in and look at things. But what they don't understand it's not all about the numbers, and sometimes extraordinary things happen that can transform the business and bring in the numbers. That is the essence of the Real Real. Hi, I'm Julie Wainwright, the founder of the Real Real, and welcome to Ever Forward Radio.

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01:51 All right, let me get to the free part. I know you like Chase. Just tell me how to get the goods. So they're hooking it up to give you a multi-day sample pack of their gummies. All you have to do is head to timelinecom slash ever forward sample to get your free three day sample pack. That's T I, m E L I N? Ecom slash ever forward sample to get the goods. I think when it comes to running a company, whether you're this appointed CEO or it's your baby, it's your business. There are probably two lanes where most people go and that's financially driven. You know, I see the profitability on the horizon and it's just a matter of figuring out the logistics to get there versus. I really don't know how the money is going to work out, but I am so mission driven that I can't jump ship just yet and I'm willing to take that risk in hopes that the financial and that's how founders think and CEOs think the other way and and there's room Obviously companies need both.

03:00 - Julie (Guest) I wasn't the founder of the company, but as a founder with a founder mentality, with the RealReal, I was going to stick with it. I mean, I knew it was going to work and I was going to stick with it, no matter how hard I got. So there is a mindset shift. I would say there's a beauty in having a dispassionate, quality, talented CEO come in and look at things. But what they don't understand and especially the guns to hire, including me at the time is it's not all about the numbers, and sometimes extraordinary things happen that can transform the business and bring in the numbers. So what's an example of that?

03:47 - Chase (Host) Is this like a unicorn opportunity?

03:49 - Julie (Guest) No, no, I think I'll give you an example which I thought was fascinating. I just met with one of the bankers that helped me raise money for the rail rail, and he, in the company when I brought him on, was already at $500 million in top line. Wow, $500 million top line revenue, which is GMB.

04:11 - Chase (Host) How long did it take you to get there?

04:14 - Julie (Guest) Six years, I think maybe. Wow, 10, 20. Amazing, yeah, maybe five heading toward it in five. And because it went like 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500. So it was a lot. Anyway, to me that's substantial. That's sort of a proof point. We were still losing money, but he said everyone he met with again think of potential investors said it's crazy, this company will never work, It'll never get to profitability, there's too much back-end infrastructure. And he said every time we got a no, you'd go. Well, it won't matter, we're going to get a yes. And I'm like, of course and there was no doubt in my mind, but that was the way I'd been raising money I brought this guy in to help because I was getting tired.

05:04 - Chase (Host) You need someone like that running the money part.

05:06 - Julie (Guest) Well, I had a CFO, but this expanded our network past that. And, look, I mean, there was no doubt in my mind we were going to do it. And he listening to his stories. If I would have only listened to him. So think of him as the dispassionate person that came in. He thought we were nuts, but in fact I was right, you know, and he's like he said I did think you were a little crazy and what I knew is you were irrepressible, but I did think it was crazy and, believe me, I had a list of people that were telling me you know you were crazy and I'm like, okay, me, you know you were crazy and I'm like okay, but they were wrong, okay, and and yeah, exactly, do you think is it as important to have to your point you said a dispassionate?

05:55 - Chase (Host) is it as important to have someone dispassionate in your corner, on your board, so to speak, whether officially or unofficially, giving you that feedback when spearheading a business, as it is to have someone that's your champion and pushing you on?

06:08 - Julie (Guest) I think it depends where you are in the state of your business, because with the RealReal I ended up raising about $700 million, I think, if you include the IPO. If you hear this reasonable person, first of all, I'm a numbers person and I run P&Ls and I learned it from the best possible company, the Clorox company, running P&Ls and brand management as my first job for about three years. So I know numbers. I'm not a flaky person. I've done Berkeley Systems. You don't know, Jack. That was a turnaround I orchestrated. The turnaround went from a company that was failing to a company that succeeded and it was a combination of strategy change and expense. They were trying to do everything getting them focused on one area cutting expenses. They were trying to do education, edutainment, gaming, screensavers, so getting them focused.

07:01 - Chase (Host) Maybe too much, too much.

07:03 - Julie (Guest) And they weren't winning and they were too small to try to do all that. And then they had a separate product line for people that were visually impaired. So it was sort of like, okay, we'll keep that because that's but anyway. So I got them in line, turn the company around. So I know, I know how to do turnarounds.

07:20 - Chase (Host) But if you're back to your question. Jack was really trying to be Jack of all trades.

07:24 - Julie (Guest) Well, that was before. They really were, at its core, an entertainment company and they didn't know it. They were not an education company. And then they had productivity too. They had a calendar product, so they were doing way too much. But back to your question.

07:42 I think if you're a founder and you know you have to get to profitability and you're comfortable with P&Ls and running spreadsheets and what ifs which I was you get told no all the time. There's always a rational person out there in the world and if you have too many around you, it will kill the company early on. So I think it depends what phase of the company you're in, because no one would do anything listening to people who are rational all the time and who've never taken a risk in their life. So this is the other thing You've got people who would never in their can't even. First of all, they've never had an idea that's to take a risk and secondly, if they did, they would talk themselves out of it. So their mindset is risk aversion and a founder's mindset is, I don't want to say, risk takers, but they're always focused on the possibility. You have to believe in the possibility.

08:39 So, they're thinking about what's possible, not what is. So you have to watch that balance, because the world will always tell you what is, and it's usually not what you're doing. Yes, yes, ma'am, especially if we were creating a new category, so there wasn't a precedent. So it's not like they could say well, they tried this and it didn't work. No one had done it before.

09:03 - Chase (Host) Yeah, so it's not even really fair to anybody, right? Well, they tried this and it didn't work. No one had done it before.

09:06 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, so it's not even really fair to anybody, right, well, except?

09:07 - Chase (Host) When you get down to the numbers, maybe, I guess.

09:08 - Julie (Guest) Well, the numbers don't lie, but at the end of the day, I knew it was going to get to profitability. And then COVID hit and now they are at profitability. But the business was highly predictable and it was supply driven. So I would say, as if you're doing a founder story and you're raising capital, it's better to have. I had venture capitalists on my board. They understand startups, they understand the metrics, they understand the if you have experience once, understand the ebbs and flows. They know what a winner looks like, which is not necessarily what a PE guy or someone normal, because they don't deal in that world and they're about value extracting. Venture capitalists are about value add and rethinking the world. So it's just a collision of ideas and personalities and I personally I know they have a place on the planet, but I think in general PE guys are just really they're like bottom feeder value extractors.

10:11 - Chase (Host) You have a place in the world. It's at the bottom Right.

10:14 - Julie (Guest) I mean, they're not value creators, they're value extractors. So any I don't know of any company a PE company and I can. I'd love to hear about one. A PE company has taken over that's actually done better and grown again. What they do is they remove money and infrastructure and just create a cash flow for their investors. Like I said, they have a place, but it's not on innovation and value creation.

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13:21 - Julie (Guest) I'd stay away from them. If you're doing something new, all right you heard it here.

13:25 - Chase (Host) So you then waited until 2011, at the age of 53, to dip your toe back in the business world again with the luxury goods consignment shop, the RealReal. We've already been kind of talking about it. For people that don't know, the RealReal is a secondhand designer luxury store where I can take my Rolex, sell it to the RealReal. They can assess it, approve it all these things.

13:47 - Julie (Guest) So it's yes, it's authenticated luxury consignment and mostly online, like probably 97% online. Well, I don't know anymore. When I was running it was about 97% online.

13:58 - Chase (Host) So you decided to get back into the business world again with the real real. What was the impetus for this new venture?

14:05 - Julie (Guest) So after pets, which was considered a failure because I shut it down and I had a lot of negative press, let's just say and so think about, like I, success at Berkeley system, success at realcom, petscom, all the way down, not good. I was told by a. I got no good offers coming my way to run a company. Remember, I wasn't really a founder. Then I was a CEO to hire and I was sort of bluntly told by a recruiter who said didn't really mince words. So he said look, no one's going to make you. You've got petscom, which was a failure, and you haven't done much since then. No one's going to give you a good job. So your career in the Valley is sort of over you can, because I was offered jobs that were like the dregs. I'm like I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this with my time. And he said well, that's all, that's all that's going to come your way. You're not going to be offered another good opportunity.

15:12 - Chase (Host) Because of, directly because of what you did with petscom.

15:15 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, and the fact that I had taken terrible opportunities I have two of them after that that hadn't worked out, and he's like no, it's not going to come your way, and big failure. And now, basically, what have you done lately? Nothing, all right, and which wasn't entirely true anyway, but I took it as truth. So then I had a point I had to say I'm either going to start my own company or my plan B and I don't want to make anyone mad, but my plan B, which in my head was the worst thing I could think of I could be doing, was sell my house, move to Arizona, go into um and then do a lot of yoga, and I hate yoga.

16:04 - Chase (Host) You got to unpack that a little bit for us, so sell your house from where from from california northern california, why arizona and why it's?

16:12 - Julie (Guest) well, because, first of all, the couple things that really I hate, right one of us. I hate extreme heat. Um, well, arizona, because it's a lot better cost of living, all right, um, but I hate extreme heat, I hate snakes. Guess what arizona has a lot of those things. They have those. A lot better cost of living, all right, but I hate extreme heat, I hate snakes. Guess what Arizona has a lot of those things.

16:27 They have those A lot of those and the snakes really scare me. So that was like this is a bad plan B, and I think I knew all these people that loved yoga and I thought it was a cult. So to me it was like so basically, it was code, for I'm going to join a cult and live in a place that's way too hot for humans, that has a lot of snakes and do a job I don't want to do.

16:48 - Chase (Host) So it was just all under the umbrella of all things that. I'm so discomfortable doing that I have to do it, kind of thing.

16:54 - Julie (Guest) Well, it was sort of I was like my plan A is start my own business, plan B and I put my house on the market, by the way, because I thought what a plan B happens? Plan B is move to Arizona, take up yoga and be miserable. So that was sort of like there is no plan B. Right, the plan B is so untenable that there is no plan B. But I had to like think of something that for me, would have been horrible, I see, I see, I see.

17:23 - Chase (Host) So your plan B was creating something that was just so not what you wanted to do, and you knew it would be miserable that it drove you to make plan A work it just made me comfortable, that I, I don't know.

17:34 - Julie (Guest) It gave me some weird satisfaction that I don't, I'm not going to go there, right, but I did put my house in the market in case, because I was going to run out of money in a couple of years and I'm like, okay, I've got two years to figure it out. Two, years. Yeah, I was going to run out.

17:49 - Chase (Host) So that's where the real real popped up.

17:51 - Julie (Guest) So then I decided I want to get back into commerce and the world had changed substantially between 2000 and 2010 in terms of the economies, of getting into a market, and Amazon had gone from strength to strength. So I mapped out everything Amazon could do and couldn't do and had luxury as one of the categories and in my head I thought, well, I'm never going to create a luxury brand. And I looked at doing other product lines where I thought they would not go into directly, and when it came but, but every time I went down and explored different possibilities and having a competitive mode around them, like I have nothing.

18:31 - Chase (Host) So so you were building. Sorry to interrupt you, but just. In my head you were building this next venture out based solely on what you thought Amazon currently could not offer or an area they were not going to get into.

18:42 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, an area that economically they would never get into. And I've been right on that, no cause I'd been studying them.

18:48 - Chase (Host) I knew that what they could do, I mean that's incredibly smart, but I just I can't think of any other example of where someone is building a business based solely on I mean, you think you think competitors, right, right, but even then you know what, 20, 15, 20 years ago, almost you know it's. You know they're such a conglomerate that in order for you to even to get back into the game again, you're like I got to make sure they're not doing it.

19:08 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, right, yeah, wow, and I knew what they were good at and knew what they weren't good at, and I do. I understood their technology stack and yeah.

19:17 - Chase (Host) And so then you landed on luxury.

19:19 - Julie (Guest) No, then I had nothing, all right, so then so I had luxury.

19:22 - Chase (Host) They do everything.

19:23 - Julie (Guest) No, no, no. I had ideas, but every time I explored, could I, am I the one to bring this to market? I'm like I'm not the one to bring a new luxury brand to market. So I had this mental map. Well, it was actually on paper. And then I'm shopping with a girlfriend and we go into a full price boutique that has a little bit of consignment in the back and it was beautifully displayed, and that's where she shopped and I'm like whoa, what's happening? Because this person and I love shopping together. I've never seen her shop previously on goods and or walk into a consignment store. So when we got out, I'm like what did you just do?

20:02 - Chase (Host) What world did you just open up to? Yeah, what happened?

20:04 - Julie (Guest) No, and I asked her all kinds of questions like why did you buy consignment? She goes. Who cares? It's beautiful, it's like Prada, gucci, you know low price. Who cares if it's previously owned? By the way? She's a multimillionaire, all right.

20:18 - Chase (Host) That's how she keeps it.

20:19 - Julie (Guest) I'm sure I'm like okay, so all right, good, but have you ever shopped at eBay? She never, would. To my face, I said have you ever shopped in a consignment store? And she goes no, I never do that. Why would I do that? They're gross.

20:31 I'm like, okay, have you ever consigned? She goes no, it's too hard. I've got so much stuff in my closet I'm not going to have my she. You know, schlep it to a consignment store. Just it's sitting there. Sometimes my sister wants things, whatever. So I'm like this is it, this is my. So I'd already said no, I'll never have a luxury thing. And then, all of a sudden, I'm like no, this is the answer, this is it. So that was in November of 2010. The first thing I did when I got, I called the store owner, because she was a former tech person and her name's Lori, and I said Lori, can we set up a meeting? I really want to talk to you. I think I've got a great idea for a business. By the time, she got back to me with like a proposed date, because we're going into the holidays, blah, blah, blah. I already had a name, I had a legal team, I had a little bit of funding, I had put funding in it and I had already started the business.

21:33 - Chase (Host) What kind of time window are we talking about?

21:35 - Julie (Guest) Between like mid-November to March 5th.

21:39 - Chase (Host) So you felt that compelled to get the ball rolling that quickly. Yes, this was something extremely tangible.

21:45 - Julie (Guest) And I'll tell you why. Again, my experience in the tech world has said if you're pulling down this information, you're getting switched on. Other companies are going to have the same idea, Other people are going to have the same idea, so you have to execute beautifully and sure enough. By the way, four other companies, four other resale companies, when I went out to raise capital a year later, were out raising against me. And when you're meeting with the same VC group, then they're looking at their model.

22:16 - Chase (Host) There's no way I'm getting you the same pitch here or giving the same pitch, but you were one of four.

22:21 - Julie (Guest) I was. But we were focused on the luxury space and we were doing all. We were taking possession, doing authentication, and we had a service team where people come to your house and what every other company went the self-posting way, like eBay, which in theory have better economics In actuality it's yet to be seen because the repeat rate at the Real real is so high that your cost to customer acquisition drops much, much faster, um, even though you do have backend expenses and the average selling price is faster. But so you can pin, you can. By then I had no, I had minimal repeat right Cause I was only a year old. But that was my theory and I could. And people are like, where's the leverage? I'm like repeat right no, no, but I didn't have enough data to buy it. But anyway. So my back to I knew if I I got it, someone else is going to get it. Remember there were six other pet companies that came along.

23:14 - Chase (Host) So I'm like I've been here before.

23:16 - Julie (Guest) I've been here, yeah, I've been here before. I'm not going to. This is not right. And then what happened is well, anyway, then it was hard to raise capital. But then, about a year into it, oh, can I tell you a little interim story.

23:31 - Chase (Host) Please, yeah, all right.

23:32 - Julie (Guest) So I had enough money. I knew I wanted to make wearing previously owned things cool. I needed a fashion person and that's not me, I'm not a fashion person. So I wanted a great merchant and one of the hottest merchants was running a brick and mortar store. She was young, her name was Rachi Sahi. She'd be written, she had been written up and I don't remember exactly like refinery 20, 59 or 29, whatever it was. It was a fashion site that covered what was hot in fashion and she'd been written. She'd been written up locally.

24:06 I had, we had mutual friends. I asked to meet her, so we had coffee by her shop and I'm like she's my merchant, we and so she agreed to shut her store down. In 2008 had been hard. 2009 been hard. She was going to shut her store down. She had also had a little bit of consignment in the back, so she knew it really worked and joined me in my startup and I knew right away when I met her. I'm like she's my person. So then I had my merchant because and I could only pay her 2k a month. So I don't know what she was doing in the store, but I'm telling she was probably making that was compelling enough to jump ship um, no, I think.

24:45 first all she understood the power of the internet, that we're doing on the internet. She said to me I'm young, I'm willing to take a risk. And she was sort of at a point where she either had to have a chain of stores or no stores, and then she'd have to raise money. And she kept thinking retail is hard, brick and mortar is hard, and I know how well resale does. I have it in my store. I know that's where people like to shop. So why not take a risk? And she's young. She was like 25, 26.

25:19 - Chase (Host) Perfect yeah. So she's young, I can navigate if I need to bounce back, right yeah.

25:23 - Julie (Guest) But you know, $2K a month isn't a lot. Anyway, she agreed to join me as my first employee and also as my merchant, because I knew I couldn't make it cool. I knew one of the keys to making this business successful was making it cool. And I'm not cool.

25:41 - Chase (Host) Oh, says who.

25:43 - Julie (Guest) The fashion world. Let's just say they know cool when they see it. And I am not cool, but the but she's cool. She was cool, she knew it, she knew how to make things look presentable. Because we had to change people's behavior. Okay, what I did know is the only way to do it was to keep the romance of the brand alive, because these brands have spent millions of dollars building up their image and the last thing you want to see is some beautiful item on the back of someone's door being photographed. You want to re-envision yourself wearing it. You want to buy into the romance of it and their high quality. So to keep that alive and to have editorial, just like magazines did. So this was all pre-planned, because I knew we had to change behaviors.

26:31 - Chase (Host) Keeping the romance alive with it. I think that's. I've never heard that described when we're looking at luxury goods, but I think that's probably the most perfect word to describe the overall experience when we're looking at what we think a luxury brand represents or a luxury product or even service represents. It's quite romantic.

26:51 - Julie (Guest) It is romantic, it's an emotional connection, and experience Deeply romantic and deeply emotional and, to be honest, in most cases it delivers. You know the quality's better, the fit's better, the lines are better. Know the quality's better, the fits better. Uh, the lines are better, the fabrics better. On clothing handbags it's you. You can really tell a beautiful handbag versus not so beautiful and they appreciate I uh well, certain ones do yeah, rolexes do rolexes do birkins do?

27:21 - Chase (Host) I'm not a huge luxury brand guy myself. A few things like. I'm the kind of person like if I see something, I like it. I like it and, uh, I've been. I think Louis Vuitton luggage is like oh well that they are. I bought their weekender bag back in 2018 and it now like I could sell it now. So what? Seven years, almost seven years later? And uh, it's doubled in value.

27:44 - Julie (Guest) Easily, and I bet you didn't wear it out either. First of all, the materials are hard to wear out, and then, secondly, when you have something that beautiful, you tend not to throw it around. No, no, you're not going to be I'm romantic with it.

27:55 - Chase (Host) I love it, I cherish it. I told my wife I was like this is how when we make it right, when I have just F you money, this is what I want as like a gift or an anniversary present. I want the entire line of Louis trunk luggage. I'm not going to use it, I just want it stacked in my walk-in closet. I just want to look at it. I think it's just, it's art. I think it's beautiful.

28:16 - Julie (Guest) It is art. Yeah, well, that the best designers do create art like that, and they've been doing it a long time. The same thing with Hermes They've been doing it a long time. Those bags are handmade.

28:26 - Chase (Host) Well, louis Vuitton started in just trunk luggage, yes, and now we got everything else, yeah.

28:31 - Julie (Guest) They did. So that was the genesis. And she was the first employee and now she's the CEO, so that makes me happy.

28:38 - Chase (Host) Oh, that's a beautiful. What a romantic story.

28:40 - Julie (Guest) It is. I mean, there was a bad blip in the middle with some guy who got terminated, but she's now running the company.

28:47 - Chase (Host) So that makes me happy. You kind of shared, like your awakening to this need in the market. But what gap in the luxury clothing market did you see specifically and why did you think secondhand was the answer for the public, public?

29:01 - Julie (Guest) Well, there was no one monetizing it. So the only way to get money out of the luxury goods, which are quite expensive. So men have wait. Let me back up. That's not true. Men have always had an aftermarket for watches, and that's a vibrant market, and you'd see it on Sotheby's and Christie's too. So that was already happening. But beyond that, if you and I checked them all out, if you sold your jewelry you went to a pawn shop and it was so gross I write about it in the book.

29:30 - Chase (Host) There's nothing romantic about a pawn shop, I think it was.

29:33 - Julie (Guest) And the one I went to was um, I read it. I. I mean, people do have to read it. It happened exactly as I described it. It was, it was, it was eyeopening. So I knew I could do better than that. And then for clothing, it was brick-and-mortar stores, which didn't make sense, and handbags mostly, it was mostly brick-and-mortar. Occasionally, christie's and Sotheby's would run a handbag sale, but mostly only for Birkins. So I'm like brick-and-mortar stores trap the product in the store. They have limited traffic. It's not the best way to do it. So and if you think about the secondary market, if you're a smart consumer and, believe me, women are all doing the math If you buy well, you can resale and you either reduce your initial costs by quite a bit or, in some cases, you make more for certain things. Cartier appreciates Rolexes, appreciates Philippe Patek, so men's watches appreciate, cartier jewelry does, and certain handbags appreciate, and Louis Vuitton luggage appreciates. But even then, even if it doesn't appreciate if I buy something full price, well, these are real, real, never mind, these are all real.

30:50 - Chase (Host) Oh, she's on brand. I love it. They're all pieces from real, real.

30:54 - Julie (Guest) But let's say I buy a dress and it's a. I'm just going to go with a brand that has pretty good resale but it's expensive. Let's say I buy a dress for $2,000 from Oscar de la Renta and I wear it a few times but it's too recognizable, so I'm only going to pull it out maybe three times a year and after two years I'm like you know, I'm going to sell it. You're not going to get $2,000, but you may get 800. So you change the way you shop when you realize that.

31:29 And the RealReal has by far the best barometer for that because the goal is to sell things at an optimal price not the highest price, but the best price within 90 days. And people do the math. They're like I'm not going to buy this brand because it has no resale value. But if I buy this and let's say you never want to resell it, let's say you never want to resell it. There's a comfort in knowing you could. It's a big comfort.

31:55 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I think when we're buying you know consumer mentality. When we're buying anything, you'd be remiss to not think about that or let it influence your decision-making process at all. To know I don't want to, but if I had to I could.

32:08 - Julie (Guest) Or yes, or maybe, you know, in five years you know, you never know you could be like okay, I'm running out of space, do I really need that? And you may be like no your taste change, your space changes.

32:20 - Chase (Host) Yeah, a lot of different things happen.

32:21 - Julie (Guest) So it changes the way you shop. No, no one had created an aftermarket for any in the luxury space on an international level or a national level at all, except for what men's watches, and it just makes sense. So I knew there was a market, because I'm a consumer and I don't like spending money and then thinking, well, that money's gone and I'll never get that back again. And now you can, you can get some portion back. And what we saw is in the early days, um, when people that were early adopters of the real world would call customer service, they'd be like I'm shopping and this brand I can't really find on your website, does this have good resale? And we'd be like we don't even take it. They're like, okay, not buying it. So it changed the way people influence everything with people's shopping mentality.

33:12 Yeah, well, everyone, no one. Everyone likes a deal number one and no one likes to have a devalued asset that has no value in their closet. They spent I mean, these things are expensive. If you spend a thousand dollars for something and then that's just gone, you're not going to do that every day.

33:29 - Chase (Host) Here's a glimpse into my mentality of by the way.

33:32 - Julie (Guest) men don't think this way, so this is good.

33:34 - Chase (Host) So you've heard, like the whole, you know there's girl math and boy math. This is, this is chase math. Um, my wife and I last year last summer, we went to Greece for our baby moon and we were in Mykonos and I found we were walking to the shops and we went to this jewelry shop and, uh, I've been kind of eyeing this Cartier watch. My wife got, um, I think it's the panther. I just did a quick google look. Uh, she got a Cartier watch when we were in Paris a few years ago for New Year's and she had been looking forward to it for years.

34:01 - Julie (Guest) And you know it's a big deal romantic experience.

34:04 - Chase (Host) Yeah, see, there you go so I was over there, long story short, I found a watch I loved in cartier and it was going to be this incredible deal. I think after the tax savings and like the duty free and all this stuff, and they were even going to give me a little bit more discount it would have been about sixteen hundred dollars less.

34:20 - Julie (Guest) Wow and brand new not secondhand, you didn buy it.

34:23 - Chase (Host) I didn't buy it because I kind of. I felt some kind of way. I'm like, eh, do I really need that watch? I don't know. Now I think back. This is, this is the chase math part. I'm now going oh okay, $1,600 will get me my flight in hotel to go back to Greece to get the watch.

34:39 - Julie (Guest) So I'll break even.

34:41 - Chase (Host) Now it's over. So this is Chase Math. I'm always like, okay, well, I'm always trying to finesse or finagle some kind of trip in there. And so which is the romantic part, I think, of the experience here my wife is like, chase, no, that ship has sailed, that doesn't count. Now, like, no, like that would cost us more money. Now, it's not savings at the same time.

34:57 - Julie (Guest) You should have done it I should have done it.

34:59 - Chase (Host) I know, and again to your point, if I did get it, if I had purchased it and I didn't love it as much as I wanted or felt. You know, I don't need it, it has a really good resale value, I could have come back to the States and made money immediately $1,600. Yeah, yeah.

35:14 - Julie (Guest) So there you go.

35:15 - Chase (Host) Stupid chance.

35:15 - Julie (Guest) And then that is the essence of the real. Real it really is being able to monetize people's purchases, and at the low. So when I first got started, 50% of the people had never consigned before because it was too hard and that went for a long time. I don't know what the ratio is now. And on the buyer group, something like 80% of the people had never bought pre-owned goods.

35:42 - Chase (Host) Why do you think that is?

35:43 - Julie (Guest) That's a high percentage, because it was hard. You have to go think about it. Before the real world you had to go to a brick and mortar store. You had to sort through a lot of stuff that you didn't really want and then maybe you'd find something your size. But now, when you have thousands of items on, you know on the site, just for perspective, when I left, the real world was getting in between 300 and 500,000 items a month. A month, a month.

36:10 - Chase (Host) Bags, jewelry, clothing In aggregate yeah, Wow, wow.

36:13 - Julie (Guest) So if you look at that and you're like, oh, I have this amazing selection of products at my fingertips that I can sort by size, by color, by brand, and know that it's been authenticated, it's going to come to me, it's too. It was too hard before you'd have to be one of those people that loves wearing vintage. Well, the real real does a little vintage but, it's not a vintage site.

36:37 Really, they do a little vintage, and vintage is one of those weird words. Like someone may think 20 years is vintage, some people may think five years is vintage.

36:46 - Chase (Host) Vintage is just a word. Shop owners in LA throw around to charge whatever they want for an old t-shirt. Basically it could be.

36:53 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, vintage t-shirts are kind of hot, but anyway, so that's the premise. It really worked well. Yeah, it worked well.

37:01 - Chase (Host) Did you get any kind of backlash from the luxury brands themselves? Oh gosh it worked well.

37:05 - Julie (Guest) Did you get any kind of backlash from the luxury brands themselves? Gosh, did you?

37:06 - Chase (Host) I would have to imagine oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. I mean, chanel was one that really targeted I mean, we're not doing anything illegal here, it's just, you know, resale just on a, on a higher level um chanel.

37:19 - Julie (Guest) Look, I don't think any other brands brands liked it. Chanel overtly tried to do damage to the RealReal.

37:26 - Chase (Host) What did Chanel do?

37:28 - Julie (Guest) First thing that we were cognizant of although there were probably other things at the beginning, probably in the first three years, so we were probably in the $100 million mark then a deal with Neiman Marcus and Saks that what would happen was if they advertise, resell with your products with the real rail, then we could pay people in a Neiman Marcus gift cards, drive them back in the store or they could get cash and the Neiman Marcus gift card. They were going to give them 10% more if they went in that and they'd pay for the difference. So they set up the program and we did a full rollout with Neiman's, a smaller rollout with Saks Set up the program. It was running about nine months and Chanel we get a call from Neiman's and basically Chanel said you have to stop picking up Chanel products, otherwise we're going to have shut the program down. I'm like, well, we have to shut the program down.

38:28 - Chase (Host) No negotiations. You're like I don't negotiate with terrorists, kind of thing. It's just no, Well, no we couldn't act that.

38:33 - Julie (Guest) First of all, why would they tell me what I could pick up or not pick up number one, Number two, even if I wanted to? I mean, we got Chanel in every day. How can I know at an operation level, where is it a Neiman's customer or what?

38:47 - Chase (Host) if it had ever been a Neiman's customer.

38:49 - Julie (Guest) But secondly, it's like you know, screw them, that's not, they can't dictate what I pick up. So that boom, the next day, and Neiman's was very open about what they're doing. Then the next day I get a call from Saks oh no, and it's the same thing. But they say we're going to have to shut the program down. I go oh really, did Chanel call you and say we can't pick up Chanel? Oh well, we're not going to discuss that, but we're going to have to shut the program down. I said I see, so Chanel called you. I said look, we just got off this fall with Neiman's yesterday. And the person says and she was clearly sticking to the script there she's like well, let's just, we're just going to shut it down. I'm like let's shut it down. So yeah, that was number one.

39:33 So they obstructed our ability to do business when we wanted. Originally we were running ads in like WWD or the New York times and we'd get the ad ready. And they're like we can't run this ad. I'm like really, why can't you run the ad? Well, we have a vendor that doesn't want you to run the ad. I go is that vendor Chanel?

39:55 And occasionally, yeah, and occasionally they would break and say, yeah, it was Chanel. Chanel is prohibiting us from running this ad.

40:02 - Chase (Host) Did you get the impression, or were you even told like? Were they being told Like? Were they being threatened? Like hey, if you work with RealReal, then you're not going to get our business anymore? Or was it just?

40:09 - Julie (Guest) they're that powerful, that clout kind of carried over, yeah, that was sort of the impression we got that they were going to pull all ads if they work with RealReal. So then in discovery, because then Chanel sued the RealReal and the RealReal countersued.

40:26 - Chase (Host) And in discovery they had had For the secondhand processing, yes, what were the grounds?

40:31 - Julie (Guest) Well, chanel sued the RealReal because they said that the company sells fakes. All right, and the RealReal countersued the essence of it. I don't remember what it, but the essence was restraining the trade, and that's still going on. By the way, that's still a whole mess is still going on. But in Discovery they had done a PowerPoint presentation in an offsite in France, in Deauville, where they called out the RealReal as a threat to the whole management team. The RealReal was only in the US. They had called them out specifically.

41:06 - Chase (Host) Chanel thought the RealReal was a threat to their business.

41:08 - Julie (Guest) Oh, it called it out as a threat. And then it said they can either choose a partner to get behind that won't be as much of a threat, or they can try other tactics. So they did both anyway. They chose Farfetch, which didn't work out for them because Farfetch went underwater and that was a stupid tactic anyway, because Farfetch didn't really have a resale business. And then they kept doing other things. I'll give you one more example.

41:32 - Chase (Host) Please yeah.

41:36 - Julie (Guest) So this was a big. What I'm going to tell you was a big moment for the Rail Rail and it was a big moment for Rati and I. Rati was employee number one, who's now CEO WWD awarded the real world we were about 500 million, going to 750 as the small cap, the best small cap company, and it's a big night. It was an awards night and other CEOs being actually honored. So I was there. My picture like that's 20 feet by 20 foot picture of me was there, um, but first carl lagerfeld was getting a lifetime achievement award chanel all right, the creative director, chanel. Um, I was picking up for the railroad, so I was being focused. The ceo of patagonia was being focused on for sustainability. Um, the ceo of gucci was being awarded Marco Bizzari for I don't remember, but it was probably reinvention of a brand or something, because they were on fire again. And I want to say Montclair was also being honored. So that's it. So that was it.

42:40 And I mean Karl Lagerfeld is sorry he's passed now, but he was the monumental guy in the fashion. He was probably the best known creative director ever and he embodied creativity and embodied Chanel right. So he'd been at Chanel forever. So at my table. I was at table one, Karl was at table three and it's a big night, red carpet, paparazzi, the whole bit, not for the real, real but still, you know. And and Carl had all of his models with him at his table. At my table, sitting right next to me, was the CEO for Chanel North America and I looked at his. I got there before he did, because I would, because I was excited.

43:27 - Chase (Host) I wonder if that was strategic by the coordination, or if they had a job the next day. No listen, no, no, no Listen.

43:33 - Julie (Guest) And then two WWD guys so he's sitting there. So when he sits down, first of all he's like he said, oh, I want to. I said I know who you are and I said you're going to have a bad night sitting next to me. He goes oh no, no, no, I wanted to sit next to you because I hear you had a bad meeting because one of their guys had set me up in a really bad way to bully me in a meeting, one-on-one meeting. It was just the most horrific meeting. I describe it in the book. But anyway, I wanted to make sure the apologies, make sure the apologies I'm. I said I'm sure you did, I'm sure.

44:05 And he said no, no, and he goes. Didn't he send you a note? I said, yeah, he sent me a note to tell me why he was right to be rude.

44:16 - Chase (Host) I said so it was sort of a sorry, not sorry note.

44:17 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, like was there a sorry in there somewhere? There was no sorry. Anyway, he's like oh, excuse me, I'm going to go say hello to Carl and blah, blah blah. So he leaves the WWD guy leans over, he goes, he asked to sit next to you and he's they put so much pressure on us to pull the award so you guys wouldn't be the yes Come on. Yes, that petty he said, but we were going to honor the real, real anyway. Yes, so WWD execs at the time stood up, oh yeah.

44:44 - Chase (Host) So they were that rattled that petty, that petty.

44:46 - Julie (Guest) I mean that's a petty bull. You know that's like a bully move.

44:55 - Chase (Host) But you seem so unrattled by all of this. Anytime I've heard you know you talk about these, these, these big, biggest players in your field, coming up against you and you're like bring it on.

45:01 - Julie (Guest) Well, because if you have a good consumer and consigner experience, there's nothing they can do about it. Now they were beating me up. Like I said, they put me in the room and the guy who was supposedly me automatically got a phone call and he had to leave. And he left me with an IP attorney who just wanted to say negative things about the RealReal and I'm like I'm out of here.

45:20 - Chase (Host) So they didn't really have anything on you. They were just trying to just like beat you down and hope that you give up.

45:25 - Julie (Guest) Right, oh yeah, but personally coming after me and then trying other tactics, I mean how many-.

45:30 - Chase (Host) Julie, you're a badass. Wow, this is so amazing. Wow, what else are?

45:34 - Julie (Guest) you going to do? First of all, look, the company was over 500 million. They weren't going to stop it. What would stop it is if we mis-executed not them, you know. But yeah, did they try to come after me personally? Yeah, so did they. Um, one of the counterfeiters sent thugs to my house one night, so we confiscated the bags and that was. That was scary, I'm not going to lie to you. To deliver a summons, cause he was suing the real, real and we had lawyers.

46:00 - Chase (Host) These are some shady shadiest tactics.

46:03 - Julie (Guest) Oh no, they're personally intimidating tactics. Yeah, he sent, so at the time I was living with someone, he was not there Right, so he was out there. Do you remember the um the series Homeland?

46:16 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

46:16 - Julie (Guest) Do you remember how tense it was every time Like you'd sit there going? Why did I watch this at night? Cause now I can't sleep.

46:22 - Chase (Host) It's great television. They keep you back for the next episode. Oh my God, it was so good.

46:25 - Julie (Guest) But my house was being remodeled. I'm downstairs there was a three foot window. I'm downstairs watching Homeland and there's the huge pounding on the door Like huge, like 10 o'clock at night because it came on late, do you remember?

46:38 - Chase (Host) Anyway, it came on late. It was showtime right.

46:41 - Julie (Guest) Anyway, it came on late, so I'm sitting down there and my dogs are going nuts and I'm like this is not normal, even the knock on the door is meant to be intimidating.

46:48 - Chase (Host) No, it wasn't.

46:49 - Julie (Guest) No, it felt like they were trying to beat the door down. So I called 911. And I knew if I walked up the steps they would see me. So I didn't want to walk up. So I called 911 and said, look, there's something happening at my house and this doesn't make sense. And then I managed to maneuver and I saw these big hulky guys there just beating on the door. Then they shoved something in the door and left and the police showed up and they shoved the summon, the lawsuit. They wanted to serve me. But they didn't want to serve me, they wanted to scare me.

47:19 - Chase (Host) They wanted to rattle you yeah.

47:21 - Julie (Guest) So that was a little rattling, I'm not going to lie, but I was already in a heightened state of like, oh yeah, so that I mean that was when they physically came after you. But look, chanel sent me in a room with this really nasty person just to denigrate my business. I'm like, really, that's what this meeting's about. I mean it was the weirdest thing. I'm like this is how you roll. I mean, come on, the weirdest thing. I'm like this is how you roll.

47:47 - Chase (Host) I mean, come on, think about it, You're Chanel, come on.

47:49 - Julie (Guest) No, they're thugs. In my opinion, they're thugs.

47:53 - Chase (Host) Where do you stand now with you know, let's say with Chanel or the luxury industry as a whole?

47:56 - Julie (Guest) Well, I left the RealReal two years ago. Yeah, so I don't know. They're still in the lawsuit with Chanel and the Royal Royal are still engaged in a prolonged lawsuit.

48:05 - Chase (Host) How do you think they feel about you no longer being attached to that?

48:09 - Julie (Guest) Chanel.

48:10 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

48:10 - Julie (Guest) No, they probably love it. Are you kidding? Are you kidding me? They've got like people that are more rational and don't want to say F you, I don't care what you think, yeah.

48:19 - Chase (Host) Why the exit? Why? Why pass the baton?

48:22 - Julie (Guest) Why leave? I didn't pass the baton. Why leave? I didn't pass the baton. I got fired by the board.

48:27 - Chase (Host) And it was a new board.

48:29 - Julie (Guest) No, after building it to over a billion dollars, there was all right. Here's my theory. I have no proof, but it's a pretty good theory. So one of the things when you're building a company and you're taking money, the people that sit on your board tend to be your investors Only your investors, almost because you know you're raising money in the real world, raise a lot of money.

48:53 And it makes sense because they're responsible to everybody. Answers to somebody, right? So when the company went public, it was the first opportunity for those people to have liquidity in a public company. You have to. For those people to have liquidity In a public company. You have to exit the board to get liquidity because otherwise you're an insider and you have to follow. I mean you can get liquidity but it's not as predictable or as spontaneous. You have to follow SEC rules because you're an insider. So my original board, so my original board, except original investing board, except this last money in all got off because they needed to sell stock.

49:33 - Chase (Host) Once you went public yeah.

49:35 - Julie (Guest) I mean not mass lead, but you know, within about 15 months they were gone, and so I had to start recommending new board members. So they were new and I recommended the wrong type of board members.

49:48 - Chase (Host) By the way, We'll talk about that. What are the wrong types of board?

49:50 - Julie (Guest) members. Well, for the real, real, the wrong types. This is where my naivete comes in. I've been in tech for a long time and I've been in high growth companies for a long time, and high growth companies especially probably any companies but I know tech tend toward a meritocracy All right, because they have to be, because if you're not doing well and you're not accountable, you wash out. Because every person counts in a company. That's a startup. Every company, every person counts In a corporation and you tend to be risk takers. You're mission driven In a corporation. There aren't a lot of high growth corporations. They tend to be more political. They aren't risk takers. In fact, they've never experienced high growth because, in fact, they've never taken a risk.

50:39 - Chase (Host) They've taken politics Kind of by nature. Yeah.

50:41 - Julie (Guest) It's more hierarchical, it's not as merit. So I recommended women from corporations for the board and they were absolutely a wrong value fit. They were a wrong fit. They'd never seen it. They were the wrong fit, All right. So bad on me. I was going for. This person has an expertise here, they could help. So I had the new board members I think were absolutely the wrong. I would never do that again. If I would have read my book.

51:09 - Chase (Host) I wouldn't have made that mistake.

51:11 - Julie (Guest) And uh, then you have one guy who didn't get off the board to sell a stock and during COVID it went. The stock went from I don't know like something like 17 down to six. So what that meant was he lost all his money and everyone's stock went low, by the way. So, but so the real real in its comps or the comparable companies everybody fell. So we felt like everyone. But look, during COVID we couldn't pick up goods.

51:42 - Chase (Host) It's not a self-posting site, so it was a really tense time, the whole in-person exchange thing here.

51:49 - Julie (Guest) January and February of 2020, before the shutdown the business was growing 40% versus a year ago. By the end of March, we were down 40% versus a year ago, so it was an 80-point swing.

52:03 - Chase (Host) That fast, in just 30 days.

52:05 - Julie (Guest) Because everyone stopped buying and we and then we had no way to pick up product. It's a longer story, but anyway. So this guy. So here's my theory new board members wrong, fit right and all right. I'm sorry, women, if you're listening, but corporate women can be really nasty to other women and I'd never put a corporate woman on my board again unless I value, checked her all the hell. So I would say corporate women not a good fit for the company, not that their skillset wasn't, but they're them and their knowledge of a startup and fast moving and everything and technology. They weren't technology based. It was a wrong set. One disgruntled investor based, it was a wrong set. One disgruntled investor.

52:51 And then I got a new CFO which everyone loved. I was very excited because I needed a new CFO. This guy comes in, he goes the board's. Something's wrong with the board. There's this troika forming. It's wrong and it's led by this PE guy that's still on the board and he goes. But there's two other people. He goes. I don't think it's good for you and I'm like I don't know this guy, the new CFO that. I'm like are you thinking he's paranoid? You know, I'm still worried about getting the company back in track and I'm thinking he's paranoid. And then I'm like, but what if he's astute? And I would say he was astute. So they were laying the trap. They were laying the trap to get me out and then I didn't help either, because I basically called them all out and had a screaming fit. No one likes to hear a woman scream in a board meeting.

53:37 - Chase (Host) Why do you think they wanted you out?

53:38 - Julie (Guest) Because that guy lost his money he wanted to put in his own guy. He thought he could run the company better.

53:44 - Chase (Host) So they felt it was more like you still hold this kind of personal weight to this other board member that could keep us from.

53:49 - Julie (Guest) No, this guy who lost his money wanted to put his own guy in because he has phenomenal hubris and he thought he could run his company. Run the company better, I see.

53:58 - Chase (Host) So so what happened?

54:01 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, of course, because he lost, because everybody answers to someone. So his, he put in money, he messed up, he didn't get his money out, he didn't exit the board like other people exited the board. This is my theory, by the way, but it's a sound theory. He didn't get his money out. So then he's under pressure because now, whatever, let's say, you put in 50 million, it's worth 40 million and maybe 30 million, but it could have been worth 100 million. It's worth 40 million and maybe 30 million, but it could have been worth a hundred million, but he blew it. So he's which is true, by the way, it could have been worth double, but he kept the money in. He, everyone else exited the board, this guy didn't. Then he's like I got to fix this. I, only I can fix it. I'm going to bring someone in who's going to basically value extract from the company and, um, it's going to be my guy. So they bring in a guy and he got fired in about 18 months and now Rati's running the company.

54:58 - Chase (Host) And guess what?

54:59 - Julie (Guest) And guess what. The stock did shoot up to 10 once, but when I was there the stock was higher.

55:06 - Chase (Host) The stock did shoot up to 10 once, but when I was there the stock was higher.

55:09 - Julie (Guest) So that's what's up, that's right. So I have no proof. What I just said to you is true, but it makes sense because you always have to follow the money. For me, when things go awry in a business, it's either money or sex, or both, and it's more money over sex. But it could be money, sex and both.

55:23 - Chase (Host) I think there's my clip.

55:31 - Julie (Guest) There's my teaser right there. What's the secret of the real?

55:32 - Chase (Host) real success, money and sex. Well, I don't know about the sex.

55:34 - Julie (Guest) All I'm saying is when things go awry, when you know when people act differently or act, uh, it's either they've lost money and they're going to do something to you know, someone's going to take a hit or something else. Something other is going wrong, something else is happening that's not visible. So that's my theory.

55:55 - Chase (Host) You know, julie, I feel like I would be missing a huge opportunity to be across from such an accomplished businesswoman, ceo, founder mentality, individual and not just try to get selfish and ask questions. You know that would benefit my own business.

56:10 Okay, let's do it as a small business owner, you know I'm trying to even I'm struggling to even think about what question to ask. You know, as a small business owner, I'm not alone. You know someone who's in the first three to five years of their business. What do you think is a crucial, crucial lesson that you learned in those years that you would want to pass on to someone in those same years? And what is an area in a small business that you think most people aren't looking at enough, that we should?

56:36 - Julie (Guest) So you know it's funny because I always come back to what do you want to do, what's your goal and do you really know? And does it map to your values? Because, if you sorry, my stomach's growling.

56:49 - Chase (Host) I hope the mic doesn't pick it up.

56:52 - Julie (Guest) So I think that's where you start. What do you want to do and what's your goal, what's your overall goal and how does that map to your values? And because I've talked to people, I'm like you've got a good business. Why do you want to get bigger? Do you really want the headaches to get bigger? And or, you know, are you at a point now where you can run that business and have a little bit of a life? Cause it, as you know, nothing happens on its own. I don't care what size business you have, it's always hard. It's not magic that it that you have any success.

57:23 So it comes down to what's your values, what's your goals. If you want to get bigger, then it comes down to there's always two things. I always look at People hard to hire, people that are really great and aligned with you on a value level, but also in a work ethic level, and can also add value. But then it comes getting the right person in and the right technology and processes to scale. But so many people say, oh, I want to do this. But when you really ask them what they want to do, they just want to do what they're doing and they don't want all the headaches of getting bigger. So it comes down to really what do you want? And then this is the other thing. Once you determine it, then I do, then then this is the other thing. Once, let's, once you determine it, then I do.

58:09 And we did this at the real, real, very concrete, both financial goals by quarter and and um. Object other objectives that aren't financial, that actually drive the numbers, like what more qualitative driven? Well, they are, but they always can be tie into the number. But it's like here are the five things that I have to get done this quarter to do this, to set up next quarter and the year. Okay, and they're very concrete and they're measurable, but they may not all be immediately financial. So here are my financial goals by quarter, and then I mean the real world, measured it daily. And then here are the, the other goals, and I'm very, very concrete on a quarter and with a harsh quarterly review then. So you're like here's what works, here's what didn't, here's what I'm going to do next and and um. And if you do that, it's sort of like anything Once you have a bigger goal, when you break it into small pieces, everything starts working, um, because then you can measure it on smaller pieces.

59:07 - Chase (Host) We can actually understand and fathom that and, more importantly, act on those smaller chunks.

59:16 - Julie (Guest) It's in, then you have yeah. So you have a defined timeframe, you have defined actions and you either did it or you didn't, and then you go back to okay, why am I not doing this? Is it a people problem, a process problem or a me problem?

59:25 - Chase (Host) Or a sex and money problem.

59:32 - Julie (Guest) Well, those are the evil, Remember, those are the nefarious part. Or is sex and money coming in in a nefarious way? No, but look, when you look at anything that has some nefarious thing, it is either sex or money. It's usually money, maybe some sex, but it's always about money. It's usually not a personal vendetta and if it is there was some money tied in there somewhere before or some sex I'm telling you it's like one of those things she's speaking the truth here, people speaking the truth no-transcript.

01:00:13 The business quarterly objectives that are that you hold yourself accountable to. And and then the other thing which is really important, let's say you do well, which I write about in the real real. You can't believe your own press, cause if you like your good press you're going to hate. You know you got to take the bad press.

01:00:31 So just stay as pure as you can and don't so it comes into. Don't let what other people say about you or give you accolades affect you, because, even though I just told you about our big WWD night, the end of the day, we got back to work the next day at 8 AM, probably, 7 AM, um, between seven and eight, and we, and even the night of, we were both like how are we going to get out of work to get to this thing? Cause we have to change our clothes because there's a red carpet and oh, what are you wearing? So you know what I mean, you like?

01:01:11 - Chase (Host) it was really great and it was quite an honor, but at the end of the day, it wasn't going to make a difference if we didn't deliver the next day, so that's all. I love that. That rings true for me. There's a lot of stoic philosophy wrapped up in there of you know receiving accolade. It's you know. Okay, good, let me get back to work.

01:01:18 - Julie (Guest) Yes, yes, yeah, that's I mean, and I think you have to be that way, because accolades come from the outside, exactly, yeah, and I don't want to dismiss them because it's like one of those things which cause I've won a lot of awards and I'm like, every time I win one, I'm like oh, and then it's like, oh, an award, I can't take it seriously. But then if I don't get one, I'm like now, why did they pass me up on that?

01:01:43 - Chase (Host) I'm like now why did they pass me up on that? Yeah, you know, it's so true, it's kind of double-sided, it can be.

01:01:46 - Julie (Guest) It is, and then you feel like, okay, what's going on here? I don't want to take it too seriously, but I did want it. But then I wanted to act like it wasn't anything. Yeah.

01:01:55 - Chase (Host) It's funny. I mean you can't get wrapped up in it. It makes me kind of and podcast production company. We've got three studios across LA and I'm about to open. I'm pouring in a lot of time and resources into a new flagship location. Um, that's. My goal is to really just dominate the podcast experience in LA, but also okay, well, that's a that's a big goal. It is All right, it's a big goal.

01:02:20 It is a very big one, uh, and I'm up against some much bigger players, but, but anyways, what I was going to say. Oh, so, a few years ago, for one of our original shows that we collaborated with and co-branded, put out with this talent, we won an Amazon award. We won a it's called a hidden gems award and podcast.

01:02:39 - Julie (Guest) Okay, that's cool, it's very cool.

01:02:41 - Chase (Host) It's very cool, but you know what. You know what leads each day with any new initiatives my and my team, not just putting some kind of award on the table and just going, okay, where's all the success? You know, you know it's okay. Good, get back to work.

01:02:54 - Julie (Guest) Yeah and honestly, it is good it does recognize outside, and especially when you have a team working hard. So that that's whenever, even with the WWD award we got together, it was a whole team thing. It wasn't I mean I my picture was there, cause I was the CEO and founder, but it wasn't about me, it was about the whole company and that's a nice thing to rally around, but then it's over and you got to stay focused. Yeah, yes.

01:03:19 - Chase (Host) The bad, the good, the ugly, all of it. If you can wrap your head around, this too shall pass. I think it allows you to move forward after any or all of that in a much quicker way, to allow you to get back to the work. Right To get back to the thing necessary to put you back on your path or to move you forward.

01:03:37 - Julie (Guest) Yep, always Speaking of yes, my last question.

01:03:39 - Chase (Host) This has been incredible. I wish I had like two more hours just to extract life lessons and anecdotes and business insight with you, but to bring it all home ever forward. How do you live a life ever forward, julie? What are those two words mean to you?

01:03:52 - Julie (Guest) Gosh. For me it's such a good thing to think about. So I think about it as staying curious and having fun, probably in that order. So never stop learning, but always have fun.

01:04:08 - Chase (Host) There's never a right or wrong answer. I always appreciate everyone's interpretation, so thank you for yours.

01:04:14 - Julie (Guest) And what's yours oh?

01:04:17 - Chase (Host) you know, these days it's actually meant a lot more slowing down. I used to think Everford meant and quick little backstory ever, for it's actually the philosophy of my late father. It was this mantra he had his entire life that we heard as kids on my family and then he passed away in 2005 and something that, literally until his dying breath, he just embodied, and so it was a Phrase, a saying, and then it was like a lifestyle, and then it was something we got to witness, and so I used to think, you know, kind of navigating that loss, I had to keep moving ever forward, meaning I had to, no matter what, just like leave the past in the past and just damn the torpedoes, you know, full steam ahead, kind of thing, and that can serve a purpose.

01:04:57 - Julie (Guest) It does. That's a generational ideology too.

01:05:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, exactly.

01:05:01 - Julie (Guest) I would say my dad.

01:05:18 - Chase (Host) My dad was always go bigger, stay home. So anyway, yeah, to mull over failures and successes equally and to kind of just figure out how I want to choose to move forward next. So, but really, by taking a pause and taking a beat and being more present, being here now, I have learned how to better move forward, instead of just like bulldozing my way through problems and obstacles and then only being left later on, with you know the aftermath, to figure out. I might be further along my path, but I also have a lot of things that I might have overlooked, or opportunities, or lessons, or things to be grateful for.

01:05:53 - Julie (Guest) Yeah, well, you know what? That's great. I mean, we're all learning as we go everywhere. Absolutely so but I do, it's a great thing to think about, so thank you for that.

01:06:02 - Chase (Host) It's always fun it's fun.

01:06:03 - Julie (Guest) These, these podcasts are a lot more insightful than I thought. Well, good, we, you know, we try to be try to have some fun learn some lessons.

01:06:09 - Chase (Host) You know take ourselves seriously, but not too seriously, Uh, but you know, to wrap it all up again, just want to say thank you. Um, what an incredible example of business and, uh, just integrity and what you do. And, um, where can my audience go to connect with you, to learn more about what you got going on now in the world?

01:06:28 - Julie (Guest) Oh gosh, that's really good idea, Cause I I didn't put a website on. So first of all, time to get real, so they can get the book that's out June 10th. Um, and I Amazon and the audio. Can I tell you one funny story in?

01:06:42 - Chase (Host) the audio.

01:06:43 - Julie (Guest) So, uh, originally I didn't want to do the audio and then my agent kept saying no, look people that record their own books, especially books like this. They sell better and they're much more authentic. I really think you need to do it, but I had to audition to do it.

01:07:00 - Chase (Host) You had to audition to read your own audio book.

01:07:02 - Julie (Guest) Yes, because Amazon's the publisher. Their company is their company.

01:07:12 - Chase (Host) Yeah, so I had to audition and what qualifies you.

01:07:14 - Julie (Guest) That's me. No, it was funny so I did it. I did my audition tape. It was a five minute tape harder than you think to read five minutes without stumbling. And the letter back was I'm paraphrasing, but this is how it impacted me and I think it was really funny and I've got to find it. It went to my agent. The tone was basically she'll do, but an actor would be better. I mean, that may not be the exact words, I'm sure it was more diplomatic. That's what I extracted from it, but anyway I got the gig, so the audio version will be out too soon.

01:07:52 - Chase (Host) That's news to me. I had no idea you had to audition to read your own audio. Yes, you do.

01:07:56 - Julie (Guest) And you know, because they're publishing it. They invested money with a director and a sound booth. So they don't want to put money against someone who can't read. And what if my voice? I mean, that's the other thing If people don't like my voice.

01:08:13 - Chase (Host) don't download the audio voice. As an avid reader and audio book listener, I love Audible. When I, I will choose books that are read by their author more so than not, but I have listened to a few where I'm like they should have gotten an actor. I'm not even going to finish this. I can't listen to it. Yeah.

01:08:29 - Julie (Guest) See, there you go, Anyway, but that's not romantic. No, you have to be seduced in life.

01:08:34 - Chase (Host) You got to build the luxury audio book platform.

01:08:37 - Julie (Guest) Exactly, um. So anyway, that's one way to buy the book, and the other way is I'm an advisor for a VC firm, so I'm going to give out their email. It's Julie J-U-L-I-E at ShotKeyVC, which is S-H-A-K-T-I-V-Ccom.

01:08:56 - Chase (Host) We'll have all that linked in the show notes for you guys and a video description box on YouTube. So, julie, thank you so much. Congratulations on the book. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode show notes or head to everforwardradio.com