EFR 881: Anhedonia - Why High Performers Crash (and How to Fix It), How to Reset Your Dopamine in 3 Days and Why Every Diet Fails After 12 Weeks with Vince Pitstick

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an operation podcast production.

00:03 - Vince (Guest) Hi guys, I'm functional health coach, Vince Pitstick, and we're here on ever forward radio Talking all about the psychology and the physiology of success and vitality. I've been watching some a lot of your content lately to speak to the business people, to speak to the high performer, to speak to the dreamer. On top of the health, the number one sensitive all hormones we should care about is dopamine and serotonin.

00:35 Because high performers suffer from a condition called anhedonia. Have you heard of this word? This is where we can drop some shit. My field, so the stuff that you don't see me always, the stuff I do on stage is not always the stuff that's online.

00:48 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and I you got to leave us one more for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51 - Vince (Guest) So anhedonia is pleasure deafness, where I can't feel. I get in place of indecision, I get in these patterns and these loops that I can't seem to break. I get everything I ever wanted and I feel miserable. I do the biggest event and now I don't know what to do with my life, like why does that behavior happen? Hormones, which we'll get to. I think this makes sense. Hormone sensitivity is different than hormone level, right, and the reason that you can understand the difference is what you're drinking right there. So caffeine, we'll talk about it on the pod, make it easy. Where it's like one cup of coffee, I feel great. Two, even maybe even better, three, I might go to sleep. But what happens is is the more dysregulated we get, the more inflamed that we get, the more in our alert, hyper-focused for problems, state what burnout actually is because they can't find it in the data. They look at cortisol and they can't find it.

01:40 - Chase (Host) It's not a real diagnosis, right.

01:48 - Vince (Guest) Adrenal fatigue. It it's not a real diagnosis, right, it's not, it's adrenal fatigue, but it's very real. We can all agree it is a real place. There's no fucking way in hell. You've not been there, oh no absolutely okay, all right.

01:51 - Chase (Host) It's funny you bring this up, because when I did that genetic testing one of the things that we know how to do, I can prove it now in a second he was. He was kind of like basically, uh, you know, do you ever feel some kind of way after, like, you know, a big event or a big launch, or you know, a big high in life, t-m-a-o-a, maybe what?

02:05 - Vince (Guest) yeah, how did I know that?

02:07 - Chase (Host) and he was like you're a hyper metabolizer. Yes, like everything. He's like you burn through dopamine so fast you get depleted. And then I literally was thinking I had my wife.

02:15 - Vince (Guest) That's what I was going to talk about.

02:15 - Chase (Host) She's an fnp and specializes in shit and she was like she did this uh depression questionnaire with me because I was feeling just yeah, depressed as fuck. Uh, she's like if you were my patient I would consider maybe medication, but once I found out that I was burning through dopamine, like that, I just padded more time to allow my levels to kind of come back and change my diet a little bit too. I brought up my healthy fats a bit exactly. Yeah, this is that's, but there's a wonder.

02:41 - Vince (Guest) There's a neuroscience to that now, and they do brain scans on people that show that parts of your brain, when you get there, are not firing. So this is why you can't hear your intuition. In those moments, you're only afraid of, like, what's missing, what you can't control, like right, and so you're only. Your lizard brain is on. Yeah, it's called your reactive mind. Yeah, that is not the fucking time to make decisions, because and this is where this is how the best make bad, big bad decisions because they don't know what's, you're on a path that's like a neuro condition and because you don't know what it is, you think it's you. Yeah, you think what I'm feeling is real. Therefore, I should act.

03:20 - Chase (Host) I'm trying to change everything all the time? Yeah, better any.

03:23 - Vince (Guest) Any woman will tell you there's like seven days where they shouldn't be making decisions, right, but they learn that. But think about the switch and this is why we can talk about this, if I see it, if I know what it is. Then I got the narrative and the narrative is oh, I'm going through a low, I'm going to observe it, I'm going to do the things to get me out and I'm gonna be right back out, exactly.

03:42 But, if you don't know, you're in a low and you don't know when it's going to end, you say it's me, I'm feeling this way because, and so then you start looking outside of yourself to figure out what's missing. That's exactly what I was going through.

03:53 Exactly, and I'll be able to explain the whole thing through my addiction journey, because that's the Matt and Hedonia, what you experienced in three days. I want you to magnify it by 20, and that's what it feels like to come off of, like high dose cocaine for months. That's why they always go back, because the dopamine receptors have to grow back. But literally you, yeah, are always burning your dopamine receptors and, just like blood glucose, you can only have so much for the cells are like, nah, bro, I can't only handle it, so they turn down sensitivity. So then guess what happens?

04:25 It takes a little bit more and a little bit more to make you feel the same, and that's why more is more is more is more is more, until crash and physiologically, a lot of things are changing in your body. This is why hyper informers like you and I will not get obesity, but we will either die from cardiovascular disease or cancer, and that's because when we're in that too high a dopamine, you have two parts to your immune system connected to your nervous system. This is the stuff that we work. So, even though it looks physical, where we start in our program is here. So half of my work is actually, uh, life coaching, because I'm trying to get in your head, because I got to get you to change the way you think while I'm working the body. The body's easy. Yeah, it's the mind.

05:05 - Chase (Host) That's what we realize. The hormones are psychological.

05:07 - Vince (Guest) Yes to your work, yeah, right, so that's. And we've learned that when we go bottom up meaning I work the 4f system to realign your body yeah, and we work top down through what's called our 4r mental framework and how we get you resensitized, we get stimulating other hormones, other hormones too. So the way to counterbalance and always stay good on your dopamine is to make sure that you do things that stimulate serotonin and oxytocin. And sometimes so when people are really burnt out, we give them low-dose naltrexone oxytocin Really yes and then we start putting them through brain retraining to start stimulating dopamine in healthy ways.

05:44 It's kind of like, just help them boost production again a little bit on there. We don't want to overproduce, we want you to get resensitive. It's like a bodybuilder everyone can understand this if I, if I give a bodybuilder a shit ton of steroids, okay, so let's say he's on 200 or 400 cc's testosterone. He gets that, he goes, he decides to go to 800. He'll feel great for four weeks, but if he doesn't stack more or add more, he'll actually have symptoms of low. And the reason that is is that at certain higher volumes, for too much, for too long, your body turns down its sensation. So that's what comes back to level. So how do I get a bodybuilder to feel?

06:17 good again, I pull it out right Start stimulating with natural so HCG or a little Clomid to get natural levels back restored. Then we do other things to help stimulate you on, just like other functional building and things to support muscle, but then all you have to do is stay there, usually if you haven't been messing around too much. This is where intensity will decide the duration after yeah, if you're a mad man like me, that was on the rage it can still be 8 to 12 weeks, but for most of us it can be three days. You can be locked back in after going through two years of a divorce and, like launch or whatever you're going through, you can get out of it if you know exactly what to do in like a three day process or a 10 day process. That is what my flush does. It's a dopamine reset and anyone can do it for $77 and it'll change their life.

07:04 - Chase (Host) That's the most precision nutrition thing I think I've ever heard.

07:07 - Vince (Guest) Awesome man, that's incredible man yeah, and so my book's coming out. That's part of what my book's coming out. Okay, great. But I'm going to start very much from the physical, explaining, like, what's happening in our bodies. First, because we can all agree on that. Yeah, if you hadn't lived what you just experienced, me and you may disagree on what the narrative you told yourself about what that moment was, we may have disagreement, but you know, on body it's like I'm fucking fat or I'm that fed directly into.

07:33 - Chase (Host) Uh, that was right around the timing that I got those results, the summer going into the fall, when I was turning 36, when I I went on trt, yes, and I was like, oh, like, well, this explains it. Oh, obviously I'm. I'm low, I'm getting old, my hormone's out of whack, my T's low, or it wasn't even low, it was like mid. I get it Mid to high fives, five, 60, 70, whatever Not technically low, no.

07:53 But based on my quote symptoms, I went on for like 14 months. This like it was just like only do I want it? Yes, exactly. And then clone it off for like two, three months and then now like I haven't been on anything in two years. Yeah, may, may will be two years and my natural t is like pushing 800 yeah man, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, isn't that awesome, yeah so you got.

08:16 - Vince (Guest) Well, hot damn, there was the episode.

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12:25 - Vince (Guest) Shit, and that's why. So research today, when you look at research as things change, it's very important that you read research and search your demographic Like is it data on you? And then look at the people what's their environment like? So what we like to do, rather than that, too, is take it a step further. What's the research based on your symptomatology and your genetic SNPs? Because you have what's called the warrior gene, which only about 20% of the world has.

12:54 And that gene, when it's activated, is it the APOE2? There's also that one as well, that goes alongside of it. That's also for Alzheimer's and things like that, but also cholesterol well, there's another apoe, I think, am I is it ma la?

13:10 - Chase (Host) yes that's the one.

13:11 - Vince (Guest) Yes, it's connected to comp t, okay, yeah. Yeah, comp t and ma oa are the warrior genes.

13:15 - Chase (Host) You know what I should have pulled? Uh, we should have pre-gamed on this.

13:17 - Vince (Guest) I actually have well, I got no problem coming back and just doing that, or you can bring it up, yeah but this interrupt you. Maybe it'd be cool to bring context. Yeah, of course it did Shit. Do I have it in here? Anyone, by the way, anyone that you absolutely admire, that's like did something great. You have that same gene.

13:37 - Chase (Host) They have that gene. Why is it called the warrior gene? Is it just?

13:39 - Vince (Guest) kind of how we and that's what we'll. We can cover this, but you make shorter dopamine strains and you detox slowly, not fast. You. You are a rapid metabolizer in your body because of how much dopamine you have. But when dopamine gets into your system it detoxes slowly. That's why you get a stimulation, you get locked in on some boom, You're in it. You don't even can you eat, You're, you're technically high.

14:04 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

14:04 - Vince (Guest) You're high on that. That's why we can outdo anyone. That's why we outthink we can do whatever if we go hard enough but that. But that superpower comes at a cost, so it's the van gogh effect. What's that? The van gogh effect is, if you want to become obsessed, as you can about anything, the more obsessed you become, the greater you become. But the greater you dance with insanity, the further you go. You can become the greatest painter in the world, but in the midst of becoming it, you cut your ear off.

14:35 - Chase (Host) I was just going to say, if anybody sees me doing a podcast and I'm missing part of my ear, I've gone too far. You see it? Call it help.

14:41 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, it's good, so so and all many of us have, of course, greatness within us, but individuals with the warrior gene right have a distinct advantage in the world of other needs the spiritual and emotional needs of love, contributions, the spiritual growth, because we get disconnected from that and it's very hard for us to maintain those relationships and stay in connection.

15:18 - Chase (Host) We disconnect ourselves from that. Yes, we disconnect ourselves Through the pursuit of our task.

15:21 - Vince (Guest) Yes, but it's the neurobiology of it. And once you understand it, when you know how to, like, oh, time stops. This is where I need to do this or I need to do that, you can get everything you ever wanted and actually love your life. Damn Powerful, right. Wow, that's what I mean. This is where I'm so my pivot and my content's pivoting. Yeah, that's why, like, um, I'm just, I was speaking, I'm speaking all over doing this talk.

15:44 I've got a 30 minute talk I'll share with you, like with the, with the slides and the science. Yeah, dude, the science is fantastic when you compare, when you combine the actual clinical evidence of my experience and over 55,000 people that I've worked with, but you combine it with the actual science that does exist, it makes this so cool. You can't say it's too holistic, but it does meet their needs, and you can't say it's not science enough, so the scientific community will listen to it. It's that I'm trying to find this middle ground between real life, bio-individuality and also the science. So the woo-woo community and the science community, that's the ultimate goal. You're speaking my language.

16:19 - Chase (Host) That's exactly what I uh, unbeknownst to me I've been after for years. I definitely it's more conscious the last couple of years, once I kind of got to a point, you know, I think, just a certain place in life, a certain age, you know, a certain place in my marriage and now having a kid, a certain place in business.

16:34 - Vince (Guest) Thank, you.

16:34 - Chase (Host) Relatively, it was three months, three months now. Yeah, yeah, Shout out, baby Dean, Awesome man. Well, I definitely. Before I forget, I just want to pull up a tab here in my notes because I definitely I'll have to put you on the clock for this man I'm going to pull up. I did this genetic testing. I was telling you earlier, a few years ago. They walked me through all these hypermetabolite situations I was going through, and even the warrior gene, and so, yeah, I want to dig deeper on there. But you know, shit, Vince, welcome to the show man.

17:00 - Vince (Guest) This is glad to be here, man to be here.

17:02 - Chase (Host) I'm definitely starting off with a bang and direction that I wasn't expecting, but ultimately where we all should be getting.

17:12 - Vince (Guest) I felt like this would be it for your audience.

17:13 - Chase (Host) So if you strap in, I think you guys are good for a really great time. I want to start first and foremost under kind of the genre of diet. You know a lot of what you do. Help I, correct me if I'm wrong. Everything you do kind of encompasses one's diet, and now that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I'm dieting because I'm trying to get ready for bikini season. I'm dieting to step on stage. I'm dieting just meaning I'm making different choices around the quality of my food. So diet is a very, I think, misconstrued word and is one that all of us are consciously or subconsciously after the best one. So is there a best diet?

17:46 - Vince (Guest) So I think you're asking a great question and so vital coaching right now is one of the largest one-on-one functional health coaching companies with a medical team in the United States. But we do life and health coaching because when you say diet, I would I would expand that word. We like, we redefine what nutrition means. What are you feeding yourself mentally, physically, spiritually? So what is the best diet? That is a great question, because it's not just what you're putting in your mouth. In fact, latest research would suggest it's what you're putting in your brain that dictates your health more than what you put into your mouth, not that we don't. Structurally speaking, it's easiest to start with your body. So that's where the journey begins, which is why you're asking me that question. It's like whenever I'm in a place that I don't know where I am, where I don't like where I am, or I don't know where I want to improve myself, it's easiest to start in the physical realm. Start with your body and it will clear almost everything else up. That's an easy roadmap from a bottom up approach. Yeah, but it is. What do you? What? Is it McDonald's or is it whole food? You know what I mean, and so that's the question.

18:52 And so when we say best diet, if we're being, if we go back to the nutritional space, the best diet, one wouldn't would have the most diversity. That's the first thing that no one talks about, because any diet that gets overly restrictive for too long all has a side effect Carnivore, keto, intermittent, fasting, I mean, you name it. Not that they're not great tools, they absolutely are but in the longevity game, one of the things that we see is the most diversity supports the best microbiome. So usually that's found in the Mediterranean. That's why people say plant-based, but it's not really. It's not vegan, but it's a place of like pescatarian Mediterranean. Or, if you're someone who loves diets, it's called diet variation. So what we do know about almost all human beings on this earth, no matter where you come from. So if we were to go to there's small tribes in antarctica that only live on seal blubber? So you've got a couple of those, wait, hold up people live in antarctica like are their tribes close to antarctica?

19:54 like like getting closer, I think in the lower arctic circle, yeah, arctic circle area, and or, and also like far out in alaska and then and then up, but they only live on like one food source, right, yeah, yeah, it's pretty rare to find that, though, and they're very acclimated to that.

20:10 - Chase (Host) I know there's a tribe. Actually I think in Alaska that they are the only people I think in the states allowed by the US government to like still hunt whale Because their diet is like 95% whale. Yes.

20:21 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, you got it Right so, but outside of that, variation occurred naturally, and so the thing that we're missing cause. When we're doing like tests on the microbiomes, we can correlate a direct relationship between your cellular age and your telomeres, or your general health, and the amount of diversity that you have in your microbiome. So as aging accelerates, your, your diversity begins to get less and less and less and less. That's a massive problem, right, and we don't value it enough, and we're learning that in the human biome project, which is what's still going on today, and so people don't understand that, like any diet that you eat, if you overeat it too long, it becomes the problem. I think that's news for a lot of people.

21:05 Yeah, but if you apply the logic to anything you've ever thought about, if you've ate the same food for too long, it eventually upsets you At some point. You start getting sensitive to it. You'll end up taking breaks to stuff or you'll get aversions. But I think that's another reason you get aversions. It's not meeting your needs anymore, it's like then you get a desire for something else variety.

21:27 - Chase (Host) Or you're not getting the same results with body composition goals, energy goals, strength goals, things like that.

21:33 - Vince (Guest) It comes down to fundamental physiology 101. Your body has a hormetic response to everything, meaning that if I do a new workout depending on what type of workout that is so if it's like hypertrophy and it's it's lower intensity, I will develop new mitochondria in relationship to that workout. Up to about eight weeks, but potentially a little bit longer. Um, you can get to eight to 12 weeks, but if you do hit cardio, it's only like four to six weeks. So you have a pro adaptive period in response to a stressor and then a maladaptive period. That's why runners can't just run more. You keep. More is not the answer to everything, because there's a, there's a, there's a hormetic window, there's a right amount of poison and then there's the dose equals the poison.

22:18 Food is no different. You know how they say like tuna, oh, it could have metal in it, right, mercury. If you're eating a diverse diet, it doesn't matter, but if I'm eating tuna 17 times from a can, that little bit of mercury, that one toxin, is going to build up in me and make me sick. We get toxins from all foods. By the way, let me just say there's no bad food, there's only bad things humans do to food. Let's be very clear about that. When clear about that, when we start getting into this stuff, this food's bad or that this is a terrible place to go, and we're creating more fear than good and you're just making people sicker with fear. So there's no, don't oversell fear. It's, it's, it's. It needs to stop on social media. It's gross. Right, I know that drives capitalism, but you're hurting more people than you're helping. And you say you're here to help people.

23:00 Absolutely, yeah, right fear this and fear that and fear this and fear that and everyone's going around. Ah, but doing that to your nervous system is gonna make you sick.

23:07 - Chase (Host) That'll make you sick yeah, and any dietary advice other than, like you know, consuming processed foods all day, every day, I would dare say, if it starts out with never or always turn the channel exactly.

23:18 - Vince (Guest) Go, follow somebody. They're selling your religion, not a diet. Yeah, exactly yeah. So I think the thing that's important for people to understand, though, is that what the trick is is that, because they're used, they're naturally used to be seasonal variation In your cell. You have two fuel reactors, you have your, let's say, coal burning furnace and then you have your recycling bin, so think of biodiesel.

23:40 So what people have to understand is, technically, what's happening in your body all day is I burn glucose and then I burn on the AMPK fat pathway, and it doesn't matter whether you're eating or not. You're doing it all day, and the reason this happens is simple physiology, where, if I run on sugar which is good performance go, all the things they're left over from burning the sugar are called glycolic end products. Think of it as like nuclear waste, oxidative stress that comes from burning the sugar. Okay, that is supposed to go away on the AMPK. So like, for example, if I eat food, my sugar should go up for two hours Don't be afraid of sugar spikes and then it's supposed to naturally go. Or one hour it's peak, two hours it goes back to normal.

24:22 After I've started to run through all that food, then I'll start to burn and um, restored sugar, uh, triglycerides, and then I'm moving more into fat. That's why, when I eat food, insulin and glucose will go into the fat cell. Fat cell will release leptin. Leptin will tell us to start burning fat. Okay, that's the natural process. So even when I'm eating carbs, I'm burning fat. Okay, why is that important? Not from an aesthetic perspective, but from an oxidative stress cellular perspective. The cell has to be healthy.

24:51 - Chase (Host) And preferred metabolic process in the body, initially at least.

24:54 - Vince (Guest) Right. So then there's all this leftover glycolic end products. Then when you switch over to fat, guess what? It cleans all that up, puts it through. It's a recycling of energy. Your body recycles everything by the way. It will recycle that energy and put it through AMPK. So that's where the recycling bin happens. We get rid of damaged cells. We get rid of like bacterias and different stuff that we can't detox through our liver. We break it down, consume it and then process the rest out of AMPK. Are you talking? Is this autophagy? Yes, it's part of what. It's part of that process. Like autophagy, autophagy exists in AMPK, okay, okay.

25:28 So ketone production to lipolysis is occurring over here for the most part. Does that make sense? Like breakdown fat. So you're supposed to go back and forth all day. So the problem with the same diet all the time, like the same thing. Let's say I eat this graham cracker and I freaking love this thing. That graham cracker has certain amount of toxins in it and you break down food. It's got glycolic end products in it. Whatever, that's not a problem. Okay, eat it for a while, no problem. But if you eat that a lot all the time, your toxic load doesn't get higher, maybe because you're eating the same amount of food. That's why calories matter. That's why calories and toxicity go together. If your body isn't healthy and can't clean itself up, very good good luck feeding up and and having good results from that long term. That's why bodybuilders a lot of times live 10 years shorter, even though they've got a lot of seven to ten years. They're they were looking at.

26:19 - Chase (Host) There's a couple studies out of the uk. Yeah, yeah.

26:23 - Vince (Guest) Because you can't run an mTOR all the time, and when we're pushing mTOR, which is how we build muscle and hormones. So, and then body size puts stress on the heart. Yeah, true, there you go, right. Yeah, so muscle is still good, but to a point there's a hormetic window, even to muscle.

26:37 - Chase (Host) Yeah, hypertrophy in all muscles, not necessarily a. That's where we see so many people, unfortunately, you know. Heart attack yes. Cardiovascular disease yeah right. Embolism Mass out die, yeah.

26:45 - Vince (Guest) Right, but then we don't want to over fast all the time. This fasting community thing is like way overdone. I'm going to get into that later a little bit more specifically as well, but again, stay on this topic. If my toxic load stays the same but it's not diverse, because you have about four or five main detox pathways in your body. So if that graham cracker is one pathway and I eat it all the time, what did I tell you? The dose equals the poison, so that one toxin, if it builds up even though my total toxic load hasn't changed, that can make me sick and it can build up in my body. But if I stay diverse and I'm getting a bunch of little, everything, it doesn't affect our immune system. Your body cleans it up just fine. This is why, naturally in human nature what used to happen paleolithic times? I mean we would be hunters and then we would be gatherers. So carbohydrates go high, protein would go low.

27:40 - Chase (Host) Our diet and fuel source changed with the seasons. There you go.

27:43 - Vince (Guest) Changed with what was available.

27:46 - Chase (Host) Which created natural variation.

27:48 - Vince (Guest) Not because we wanted to get shredded for the ice age or the summer Right. So the trick is we didn't know for the first 30 to 40 years of research that part of what we were looking at is the most well-studied thing in research today, which is the placebo effect. Today, which is the placebo effect, one out of five people, or at least a 20% improvement can happen in people just believing that the thing is working, which is why we test drugs against people's belief. Belief is so powerful that the only way we know if a drug works or not is to compare it against people that believe that they got the drug.

28:17 - Chase (Host) Yeah, okay, or even surgeries yeah yeah, I've seen some wilds. There's one telltale story came out of like this doctor. He kind of got shunned for it but he was doing knee replacement surgeries quote, knee replacement surgeries. He didn't actually perform the surgery with anybody. Uh, he put him under. Would like make a cut, make him think they went through it. Everyone reported no pain, getting back to their normal swing of life, and he's like I didn't do anything. Did he get in trouble for that?

28:40 - Vince (Guest) yeah, see, I don't see, I wonder. But that's where that you challenge. Is that I?

28:45 - Chase (Host) challenge the ethics versus do no harm.

28:47 - Vince (Guest) I know, you know, I know so you, you that I'm gonna find that because that's great, that's a great a surgeon out of, I believe, texas, yeah, a while ago, yeah, yeah so what I want people to to get out of this, what I want them to understand, is that there was natural variation occurring.

29:03 So the placebo effect. We didn't realize we were observing it for a long time. Then we put the standard in of the placebo effect, right, we now measure against it. What I want people to understand do you notice how all research on nutrition is probably eight to 12 weeks? Yeah, why is that? So? Your body will positively respond to any stressor.

29:26 You know the funny thing if I were to give you a, if you're a healthy person, and I were to give you just a little bit of mercury, just a little bit, the amount of antioxidants that you would, you would make to that mercury I could technically claim Mercury makes you healthier Technically. So remember, dose equals the poison, so now, so equals the poison, so now. So parts per million understand that toxins make you make antioxidants, which is why plants have lots of toxins. But the net effect of it provided if you're healthy and you have the genetics that make it work correctly the hormetic effect of that micropoison, just like going to the gym a pro-inflammatory event led to a bigger antioxidant event, which led to a net antioxidant event. The problem is how well your cells work to create the antioxidant event, not the stimulus. We blame stimulus but sometimes we're not realizing that our genetics and how healthy our cells are on a cellular level.

30:22 You fix the cell, you get well and then you can handle lots of calories. You can handle lots of toxins, you can handle toxic situation, people, places and things. Your capacity gets bigger. That's what all my book's about. We're missing the point. Like, like we. It's a race to the bottom right now where it's like. What I mean by this is that everyone says to keep cutting calories. It's calories in, calories out. So this is the idea If weight loss is your goal.

30:45 Yeah, but just in health too. They're saying keep your calories low. Okay, in general, you got the fasting communities, you got these communities saying this, and what I'm getting at is that if, every time you lower your calories to try to maintain your weight, what starts to happen? You're reducing your capacity, your metabolic capacity.

31:00 - Chase (Host) Your body's getting trained.

31:01 - Vince (Guest) Metabolic rate just keeps going down down, down, down down right. This is why this doesn't happen as much to guys, but happens to women all the time their metabolism start to get slower and slower and slower. It's called adaptive thermogenesis. Guys will overeat, we'll do stuff and our luckily, our muscles are.

31:13 - Chase (Host) Forgive us a little bit and we overeat it, kind of like it helps the fire.

31:16 - Vince (Guest) That's right, you got it right, you understand that, but that's in our that's, that's culturally okay for us and I think a lot of women when they get into, when they're very nervous about the world and they're trying to control a variable. It's very easy to just control diet in our bodies, especially with the. You know, women are very worried about their, obviously their their value in the sexual marketplace and like their value as a person, being in femininity and embodying that, and so then it ends up coming into this focus on that. There's that psychological aspect you were talking about before, right, so we'll get into that. So then there comes pleasure from restriction, right, and so then women just naturally begin to over-restrict.

31:57 So but the final statement that I'll make on this is that all I want people to realize is that dieting isn't as complicated as you might think it is, provided that, whatever the season, is that what you're trying to do? Try to eat diversely. In general, probably try to eat a little bit higher protein, okay, in general, um, make sure that there's an intentional time of the year that you switch your diet up, so, whether that be like eight weeks out of the year or a couple of times out of the year that maybe you get rid of your carbs and just go protein.

32:26 - Chase (Host) When you say change up your diet a couple of times a year, you mean like exactly like change of macronutrient, or are you fluctuating calories? Or like go from keto to Mediterranean?

32:35 - Vince (Guest) So you have multiple forms of variation that we I have a diet. If people are interested, they can always message me diet variation. We give them a guide. They can pick Okay, you can pick food source, you can pick a macro, or you can pick not eating, so you can do fasting, okay, right. So there's multiple ways to create variation in your diet. The easiest way for most people, if they don't want to think about it too much, is they eat Mediterranean because it has the most variation Okay so. Because it has the most variation, okay so they want to try to eat more diversely. That's harder to control your macros in that, and I don't want people getting stuck in a macro counting world. I don't think that's sustainable long-term. I think you should learn it.

33:14 - Chase (Host) Yeah, so you generally know, with your macro split in, you know fruits and vegetables, it's pretty damn hard.

33:19 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, so, but what I want people to understand is one of the easiest ways is eat diversely and then eight to 12 weeks out of a year, particularly 12. And we got to get back to the research on this. Eight to 12, 12 is about the sweet spot where you like take all the carbs out that's an easy way to do it or just totally switch up the foods you've been eating, like, go to. That's why I like I like people to go to like, go to like fish and other healthy like, like maybe buffalo elk good like.

33:42 - Chase (Host) Are you talking a total swap for the like protein source here, for example? You know, instead of like beef and chicken, I'm going just game and fish. So it's not just in addition to, it's a substitution, substitution, okay, yeah yeah, so you can just try substitution by itself.

33:55 - Vince (Guest) But if you want to get better at it, where you get really good result, you'd want to switch energy sources. So I always I would love people to go to almost like a paleo or a carnivore or a keto, um, or an intermittent fasting, because it pushes AMPK for eight to 12 weeks and that'll clean up your body. It's like a detox for your body. Uh, we teach this. You know, if you do that out of the year, people would, their lives would change Like they don't understand that I see this all the time.

34:22 - Chase (Host) I know mutual friend and client, uh Anna Nazary.

34:25 - Vince (Guest) Yeah.

34:25 - Chase (Host) She I see this all the time she's in her her keto era. I mean, you can't? You seem to just kind of like cycle through keto every once in a while. Now I know exactly why. This is why diet variation.

34:33 - Vince (Guest) Now you can create. You want to get real cool with it. You can create weekly variation where what would be the best diet ever it's not the diet, it's a 36 12. You don't eat one day, you eat the next. You don't eat one day, you eat the next. I don't think. I don't think human beings were actually all year round designed. I don't think, you know. I think the reason disease sets in is because we're eating all the time. I think the reason we get cavities, I think the reason that everything happens is because we have access to food, but our bodies were not designed for that. How do you think we got to this far? Do you think that there was water and food available to paleolithic?

35:07 - Chase (Host) I mean, they must have went oh no, it wasn't high noon and like oh, time for lunch.

35:10 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, not even close right and I think our remember science and technology have brought our caveman bodies that are still set on that genetic preset into an environment that is not really it's not really optimized for and that's going to continue to happen. And we've seen incredible. We teach 3612 strategies. Another way for like, but not all year, but another one is just OMAD, omad, eating eat as much as you can possibly eat in one meal. The crazy thing is when we see people doing that, all their health markers get better and like, literally, if you get good at it, you could eat Honestly, you could eat pizza, you could eat whatever you wanted.

35:56 - Chase (Host) So you're saying to get all your total daily calories just in one meal, one big meal For this, the 36-12 you're talking about.

36:05 - Vince (Guest) Now, of course, listen, or in a 36 12 where you can go to omad living okay, like for a while, like five days out of the week, like go mad. Like how I live is a five and two schedule. So five days out of the week I only eat, and if I go, if I'm in a week of performance, um, I'm only eating in a five-hour window to huge meals, right, and. And then on the weekends I'm eating all day. My hardest training is on the weekends. I I don't like training fasted, you know.

36:25 - Chase (Host) So you got to think about how you want to do that yeah.

36:27 - Vince (Guest) You can do it for a few weeks out of the year, but and and so, uh, but I, I'm telling you that the amount of oxidative stress from pizza, uh, is it doesn't outweigh eating lots of food all day. That's more inflammatory, okay, so, so, but, but remember, it gives you a lot to think about. All I want people to do is to start thinking a little differently and approach. There's so many things you can do that all you don't have to get it perfect yeah, you don't have to at all. Yeah, you start adopting some of the things that I'm talking about. The easiest thing to do is start adding very intentional variation into your home.

37:05 Hey, honey, you know, it's like, let's together eight weeks out of the year, 12 weeks out of the year. We're going to go ahead, maybe for spiritual reasons, which I want to thank Jesus Christ for allowing me to be here today. I always I forget to do that in the beginning. But, like you're fasting, what do you think? The principle, part of it's spiritual, but dopamine resetting, but then part of it's medicinal, which is why every religion in the world agrees on one thing, which is fasting. And so, hey, we're going to fast carbohydrates and we're going to focus on like proteins, and I mean or we're or we're just going to fast in the day, we're only going to eat from five to you know nine. You throw something like that in, just like eight to 12 weeks out of your year, you don't have to think as much on some of the other stuff. Or you throw in one day, one, one day a week, you throw in a OMAD Okay, beginning of the week, you just eat one meal, like it's a 30, you throw a little something.

37:55 - Chase (Host) Those are little things that you can do to create variation that will bring like value to your life, and there's so many cool ways to do it that you get to it's fun, because there isn't, it's not restrictive no, which, I think, where a lot of people might be hearing this or hearing familiar parts of what we're talking about and just hear all the things in the past of what someone has told them or what they believed that they can't have, they can't do in order to have the diet or the health of their dreams yeah, they've.

38:19 - Vince (Guest) Or the health of their dreams yeah they've shown that keto done too long possibly could cause cancer. They've shown how carnivore done too long can possibly cause health issues. They've shown how eating too much the diet that's worse is when people stand a lot of plants with no meat for really long periods of time, with not a good microbiome, and then they're trying to fast food vegan it. Those people get the sickest malnourished and all. That Doesn't mean I don't love plant-based diet I absolutely do. But the reality is is that you got to cycle off them plants. You're not supposed to be on them all year long like that. Like that's the. It creates overgrowth in the gut. Too much bacteria gets grown off. All that.

38:56 - Chase (Host) How many vegans are gonna be chiming in angry with the comments on that, I wonder but it doesn't mean that it's not right, so I'm validating them.

39:02 - Vince (Guest) in a way. I'm just saying that, like there is no one, we got it. We, we all want to find this path, like religions, and we're all fighting with each other. The answer is in between that there, there is it, there's a, there's a, there's a middle ground, and we shouldn't get too overly specific, or we start excluding everybody and then we live in an over-informed age Like.

39:21 This is the era of too much information and not enough organization and tailoring information that is particular to your demographic and your needs. And when you consume too much information and it isn't organized and it isn't applied, it actually leads to nervous system dysregulation, because I don't know how to sort what I just heard and I don't know what I'm feeling about it, and then I just leave it in this unprocessed space, which is why you see people, when they're trying to get healthy, consume all this information and get worse for it every time. This is why I created my organization. We have we have 20 years of experience. We know what we're doing and, more importantly than ever, we're going to organize it for you so that it manifests in your life and you shut your damn brain off because you're not going to find the answer.

40:06 So, like, stick here and you're going to do great. Right, we've done all the testing and we do pilot testing on almost every kind of diet, everything, I mean there's nothing we haven't done. In my organization of 120 staff we check everything, longevity, we're playing all the time that we're having fun with it, but then we learn how to apply it into people's lives where it's very practical and manifests a quick win, so that you can continue on and I mean that's incredible and that should be, in my opinion, the gold standard when it comes to.

40:34 - Chase (Host) I mean, you're dealing, it's not just health, it's people's lives.

40:37 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, absolutely and everybody at home, the reason that every, every supplement is studied in an 8 to 12 week window. Every diet usually is compared to an 8 and 12 week window and that is because I know that when I apply this is all physiology in general when I apply a stimulus, a stressor, so a workout stimulus or a diet stimulus or an emotional stimulus stimulus or an emotional stimulus, that stimulus will have a hormetic window, like of stimulation. That's observable in the biofeedback up to 12 weeks. But you won't find the negative part of that till you usually get into the second or third season drugs too. This is why most if you look at antidepressant research, you're going to find most of it eight to 12 weeks. You're not going to find long studies because because anything can be a positive input for a short period of time and that's why I don't want people to get tricked Like in it. Not that data isn't useful, and it is, but people know what they're doing. Any there's seasons, the body responds to seasons 12 weeks.

41:46 - Chase (Host) That's why there's such a push right now. I think so many people are having such a come down and horrible side effects, long-term side effects from years of SSRIs yes, because they work in the beginning, but then long-term, it's just like you know, we're on the tail end now.

42:01 - Vince (Guest) Easy example for anyone to understand is where, if anybody at home I hope this empowers them if they, you know, uh are on a mood or mind altering medication which is totally okay, by the way. Right, we're not shaming that decision. Like you got to do what you got to do to survive, I found cocaine, so it worked till it didn't. That was part of my journey, so I'm not judging fucking anybody. I don't know if you can cuss on here. I apologize, but, like I'm no better than anyone else, I was trying to find the way out of the. I'm trying to solve the universal problem of how to live, too, and I can understand it right and and so what happens, though, is that your brain, your body, is so amazing and it is so adaptive, and it learns there. We are not measuring brain chemistry on these drugs. We are measuring symptoms. There's a big difference. Okay, because there is not one study that exists that shows that your depression symptoms are because of low serotonin.

42:59 - Chase (Host) Not one okay, you, why not? You would think that would be kind of you can't measure it.

43:04 - Vince (Guest) You can't measure it. It's almost impossible to measure that level and know what's happening in the brain. They don't know how. They can't measure serotonin. No, not, not, not and not, especially like for me, when we're doing like you can do urine with some blood, what are you doing? It's very hard to to to understand the behavior of the neurotransmitters. You can see activity. You can see because, like, we're trying to measure it all the time, just like it'd be perfect, just to get your. You know we can see what you're excreting, but that doesn't mean that's what's like active and what's processing and what's freely available. That's why they can't. They're look, look for a study on low serotonin levels.

43:43 - Chase (Host) You've never seen really effectively measure that.

43:45 - Vince (Guest) Yes. So what they're doing is they're doing symptomatology, otherwise there would be a test. Oh, you have depression?

43:50 - Chase (Host) Let me test your urinary serotonin levels.

43:53 - Vince (Guest) It doesn't exist. It never existed. So what we're looking at is symptoms, okay, and saying, hey, this made you feel better. Well, yeah, guess what? If you feel low, I can give you caffeine, I can give you cocaine, I can give you psilocybin, I can give you an antidepressant, I can give you thyroid medicine, I can give you testosterone. I've got all kinds of things that I can provide as a stimulant to make you feel better. But if we don't solve the root cause, in eight to 12 weeks you feel the same or your body adjusted in that time, right. So what I want people to understand is that the reason that most research on antidepressants shows no better than placebo at about 12 weeks is because after 12 weeks, the normal hormetic cycle has occurred. Your body will adjust to the antidepressant. Your neurotransmitter levels are exactly the same at 12 weeks. Okay, now, now this is what we see behaviorally. Because we work at our, at our clinics, we get people off these all the time, yeah, and when we get them to understand that, do you know that right now?

44:55 You've been on it for three years, but actually your neurotransmitters are the exact same level than before you started it. You were in control. You were level than before you started it. You were in control. You were in control the whole time. You just thought the drug was doing it. Now, does that not mean that certain anti-psychotic drugs at higher doses are not helping people with rare conditions? That's only five percent of the population, dude. Okay, that is a very that is a. Most people are going through temporary periods of imbalance in there. Yeah, right, okay, there are real psychological disorders. Okay, I'm not saying that there aren't, but it's a very small part of the population. Okay, but what happens is, after you start taking these medications, your body will up regulate and down regulate metabolism. So you're actually the same, but you believe you're different. Coming back to the belief, it's like the belief.

45:48 - Chase (Host) There's a catch-up period of belief to physiology, to biochemistry, to like what our mind perceives our health levels and quality of life to be at, compared to what our body is actually doing.

46:03 - Vince (Guest) Yes. So then now the game becomes how do I help you maintain those levels and start weaning you off? We don't start with that. We start with the body. We started making the body really healthy. All of your other hormones, everything else get it real stable and then everything else is easier to come off of. So, the little bit of rebound that you go through because every other hormone feels good and you feel good, you can withstand that. And if you've got a coach with you, in a community with you, that's how you, that's how you approach someone and support them the right way so that they can actually get off that safely, effectively and get right back out there and go wow, I'm so powerful.

46:41 - Chase (Host) Hey, listen up. I have a very important question to ask you because, as you're going to hear Vince and I talk about in our episode today, there are a lot of things that we can be doing to optimize our health and wellness, but when's the last time you had your labs drawn? Are you trying everything you can, sticking to the plan, doing all the workouts, getting your sleep, getting your hydration, but maybe you're just not seeing the needle move, or feeling like the needle is moving, like you want it to or like it should? Well, I'm here to tell you and speaking from personal experience, that was me I was doing all the quote right things, but until I got my lab work done, I didn't know what I didn't know. So let me ask you, when was the last time you got your blood work done? And I don't mean just a quick glance at cholesterol or vitamin D, I'm talking about the kind of comprehensive labs that actually help you understand your body, your hormones, your energy levels, your metabolism and really everything else. See, most people are walking around guessing, guessing why they're tired, why they can't lose weight or why they feel just off. But what if you could stop guessing and start testing? I'm going to recommend you do exactly what I did and what I do regularly. I get labs.

47:51 That's where today's partner, joy and Blokes, come into play. That's because they offer deep dive lab panels designed to help you get real answers and build a health strategy based on you, not general guidelines or one size fits all advice. And right now, when you head to joyandblokescom, that's J-O-I-A-N-D-B-L-O-K-E-Scom Don't worry, I have it linked for you in the show notes under episode resources, as always. But you can actually head to the website, dive into any metabolic panel, any comprehensive lab, any lab at all, and save 10%. When you use code CHASE at checkout that's my name, c-h-a-s-e You're going to get 10% off. So if optimizing your health, energy performance or even just feeling like yourself again is a goal, start by knowing what's going on under the hood. They're going to help coordinate your blood draw at a local phlebotomy establishment of your choice or, in certain cities, they can even send someone directly to your house. There's really no excuse not to know what's going on with your labs. Joyandblokescom Code Chase for 10% off, because I went through it.

49:00 - Vince (Guest) I have severe OCD disorder. I was diagnosed, diagnosed. My story is insane. Seven years old, overexposed the chemicals on a farm, it made my immune system weak. I got a massive strep. Uh, three times in a row the strep turned into pandas. So pandas isn't those. So when you either get a viral infection or bacterial, this is a streptococcus infection that leads to severe mental disorders. So immediately I go from a strep infection to I think, everyone's aliens. I'm touching all four walls, I'm washing my hands, I can't leave the house. I was buoying a bubble for years, dude, wow.

49:36 And it makes you think different, cause my world was rocked like at a very early age. Plus, there's trauma in the home. My parents aren't. My father's trying to grow a massive business and also be a great father. He was not. He was not doing great at that at the time. They're getting ready to separate. So I'm living on this farmland, homeland. And now remember I'm. I'm 40. Okay, this is I'm seven. It's 33 years ago. We know, know nothing, okay, we have no idea. This is where. So I'm experiencing severe anxiety disorders. My parents think it's behavioral at first, because we didn't understand neurobiology and we didn't understand these types of things. We didn't identify them then. So it started out was I'm just a bad kid? Well, that was the narrative I told myself, because you're going to believe the worst thing. It always is that way. We're always going to listen to that one person.

50:28 - Chase (Host) Especially when it's a parent or a medical figure telling you something like we believe that they hold this position for a reason, and you know who am I to think anything different?

50:35 - Vince (Guest) But also because when your nervous system gets dysregulated, you're always going to think worst case scenario, because you're trying to protect yourself. So you're seeking for potential threats, so you're going to believe any evidence of potential threat over the safety of something that is good and safe. You're always going to do that to try to protect yourself, so that one person that said you're you're never enough, you're going to listen to that because it's like what, what about me? Isn't enough.

50:59 - Chase (Host) I need to see signs of anything and not see anything else where you are.

51:02 - Vince (Guest) Right, you know, and so so my what I want people to understand is I know all about this enough that then when we started work opening clinics and the doctors and all the people that we work with, and my battle through addiction because after I got sick and I became obsessive, compulsive, now it's a condition. It doesn't matter what, what caused it, it's there. So I have the same genes that you do, and so I have the CompT gene. It leads to addictive behavior. I didn't know this when I started using substances. It fixed me for a while, like the voices were gone, everything was gone. That's why I began self-medicating, but also having fun and partying wow you really kind of hear the opposite.

51:45 - Chase (Host) Usually, if people kind of go too far one way with certain substances, it kind of gets them to a place where you were coming from yes, but they go as the opposite member. Hormetic window the whole point we're talking about here is just like on what side of the scale are you when these changes are introduced?

51:58 - Vince (Guest) let me tell you all drugs, whether it's a medication or not, usually has a positive hormetic window. Alcohol, for like courage and strength and like there's opportunities with alcohol, any drug has a positive hormetic window, so it starts out good. Cocaine did solve my problem If I could prescribe it to people with generalized nervous system, obsessive, compulsive, like I like focused, oh shit, okay, congratulations, yeah, it works till it didn't. Yeah, and then I overdid it, right, and then that is where all the you know when my journey then goes traveling the world, learning from practitioners, opening up my own clinics I started to, and the 12-step recovery.

52:43 I was trying to figure out why the 12 step recovery made me successful in everything in my life relationships, business, all the things I was trying to figure out. What is the neurobiology of why these steps are working this way? So we unpack that through our studies, working with doctors and everybody else, and so now we can reproduce. I can help balance people's brain, like neurochemistry along with their physiology. In our four-step process because I understand it, one because I lived it I went from infection to to neurological imbalance, to then addiction, to then recovery and then getting into health now and then understanding those factors and what's happening to people in just life We've been able to reverse engineer it and that's why you see all the things that we do at Vital because of that. So it's like. I know that's a like a expansive topic, but it's a lot.

53:34 Hopefully that helps people understand, like why does he know it? Like help certify me for people that you know why is this guy, who's coming out?

53:41 - Chase (Host) of nowhere. I mean a ton of history there and clearly a ton of uh of evidence, but you know you, you kind of brought it up here. I want to get to. You do have this four F process, this process, this approach we're talking about and a pretty wild status. So you said quote you have a proven process with a 92 to 98% success rate of optimizing people's health and wellness sustainably. I want to ask what exactly is that statistic? A success rate of yeah, and what is the 4F process?

54:07 - Vince (Guest) When people come in, so when people you know from around the world you know because it's virtual we can see you wherever you are. When people come in, they do advanced assessments in the beginning. So we know that if you work the 4F process, which is all 11 systems of the body, One of your systems is your nervous system. Right, but your nervous systems is your brain and your central nervous system. Okay, you have 11 systems of the body and they get off like a Rubik's cube. Okay, so all your body's not broken. It needs to be realigned. Okay, that's the first thing. You're not broken, you just need to be optimized.

54:40 - Chase (Host) And so, real quick, just pause on that. Yeah, how many people needed to hear that first.

54:45 - Vince (Guest) A lot of people right, you're not, you're not broken, you just didn't know. I lost 20 years of my life to disease and I found out that when I put the right alignment, I got some functional medicine. I did some some detoxing, I worked with a therapist, I got into the gym, I changed my diet. Those were the alignments and when they fully gridlocked, one day I'm in with the therapist office and the obsessive compulsiveness I just went away Like no granted. Am I still like? Am I still focused? Like, do I still have OCD tendencies?

55:12 - Chase (Host) Of course, but you probably stepped way more back into the driver's seat of your life, your mind, your body for the first time, maybe the first time ever, one of the best therapists that I ever had.

55:22 - Vince (Guest) He showed me through cognitive, behavioral and using chess how I could. If I wanted something bad enough, it would trump my obsessions. But I couldn't. I didn't know that I was doing that. People. We'll show people this all the time. It's like you think everything is controlling you or whatever. But then when there's something you really want, all of a sudden you're totally in control. Or if you're really afraid or something, a need, a priority needs to get met Like if I don't have food or if I don't have a place to stay, all of a sudden your obsessions will be gone and you'll be figuring out how to get that. And that shows you that you're in control. When I, someone showed me that I had been in control the whole time, that I just didn't know how to control it. I didn't know how to regulate it.

56:06 - Chase (Host) That's the most liberating thing in the world.

56:14 - Vince (Guest) I'm like, holy shit, this has been an inside job, right, and I'm and and so. But you have to be physically well enough for that moment to happen. If your body is dysregulated enough, it's almost impossible to think your way out of a mental or a physical condition. It's almost impossible to think your way out of a mental or a physical condition. Only one in five people really are able to believe, and then their physiology changes, which is what the placebo effect is right. Not everyone has access to that ability.

56:34 - Chase (Host) Well, I was going to say, is that a an inherent trait or just a skillset that has? I believe it can be tracked?

56:39 - Vince (Guest) I believe it can be. I believe that I would, because the genetic work that we're doing, I believe that if we took those one in 20 people or those one in five people, I bet they have the comp TMAO gene that you have called the warrior gene. I believe that very much and I believe those people are so powerful in their belief. I think there are certain genes we could identify. I do, but I can I say that that is true right now? No, I cannot. I'm telling you anecdotally what I've seen Wow Right, wow, um. So I think what's important again to to go back to this is that the 4F process was designed because I was a sick kid. Then I ended up developing a health program. That health program gets picked up by one of the global leaders in functional medicine approaches to health. I trained under a doctor called Dr Jeffrey Bland and the team at Medigenics. I learned everything about functional medicine. I was already big into nutrition. I also was doing personal training. I was also doing a lot of other things and trying to find my place or where I could help people. I get trained under some of the best doctors in the world. Jeff Bland is the founder of IFM Institute of Functional Medicine world of jeff bland is the founder of ifm uh institute of functional medicine. I then become the consultant to doctors all over the country so I got to learn from the best of the best how they looked at healing and I took all their little things and I organized it okay. I organized it into a process that can help anyone anywhere, anytime.

58:00 Where we come up with that statistic is when people come in. They, they sell their overall symptoms sheets and then there we do their blood work and their genetics and stuff. Within six months, okay, over 92% of them have had greater than an 80% recovery, meaning that that we call that success right. So that's where we come up with that number. And when I say anything, I'm talking about autoimmune, I'm talking infertility, I'm you name it the body in a Rubik's cube. Actually, when you do the root cause stuff, there's not that many variables. When you put them back into alignment, the body will take care of the rest God.

58:37 - Chase (Host) I cannot agree more with that statement. It's when you get down to the root of what it means to be in homeostasis human to human to human and you foster an environment that allows those conditions to thrive. I'm with you, man. I mean barring a few things here and there. I really don't care what the prop quote problem is or what the goal is. You will get there.

59:00 - Vince (Guest) The one thing that we've learned that can hold people back is if, in the process of how long they've allowed themselves to be sick, cells can get there. The one thing that we've learned that can hold people back is if, in the process of how long they've allowed themselves to be sick, cells can get damaged and they can sit in your body and then sometimes we have to put people through a process of getting those cells out. Is this your flushing part? This is a fasting part phase.

59:17 F3. Because you can eat bad cells out of your body and then stimulate stem cells to regenerate new cells, to replace those cells that have healthy mitochondria, healthy DNA. You can literally reverse in within reason, reverse some of the aging process, and we've watched it happen over and over and over again and that's why I'm trying. We go around spreading the miracle that, like you, are your capacity. But neuro, neurologically, physiologically, you've been way undersold how cool that human body is and it's about time you go out there and test it and see what it can do.

59:51 Amen, brother, amen, you know you're capable of so much more, but the only way to get there is to be guided to the truth. That's why I believe all my primary goal is to bring coaching into medicine and I've proven that the model works because we have medical coaching, we have our coaches, but there's also supported by the medical team. Um, but the experience, the medical teams behind the scenes, what matters is this, right here, me, getting you through the hard shit, having you have breakthroughs. Ai is not going to be able to do that, but if we bring coaches into the medical space, you'll change medicine forever, period. There's already data that shows this.

01:00:34 - Chase (Host) I used to be one. I don't know if you know this, but I was a clinical health coach and wellness director. I ran the wellness department and worked every day with patients for four years in a concierge medical practice.

01:00:44 - Vince (Guest) That's it. So what vital coaching is concierge medicine, but I've added life coaching. Amazing, Making sure that we really we need it all in one place to organize it for you.

01:00:53 - Chase (Host) You know, when I tried, I introduced more of that into my coaching practice. Oh, I was. That's why I left Ultimately. Yes, I was literally this with our chief medical officer and he was like the numbers say this, this is what you do and I was like, bro, you're missing the fucking point. You're missing the person and the point.

01:01:10 - Vince (Guest) But you're getting. The greatest technology that ever existed in medical health Hands down is nursing. It's not penicillin, it's not cancer treatments Every bit of medicine is delivered by a nurse today, because a nurse is the human element of healing right, and I believe nursing is on the decline and what's going to take its place is coaching, the outsourced in-home virtual nurse, giving it a different name. That's going to guide you in different ways. So you're either going to go the route, ladies and gentlemen out there you're you got a decision to make right now. What's happening is AI is going to guide you in different ways. So you're either going to go the route, ladies and gentlemen out there you're, you got a decision to make right now.

01:01:48 What's happening is AI is going to give you a diagnosis. Amazon's going to drop off your pills. It's already happening right now. You can either allow that system to take care of you or you can say I'm not going that way and you start to find practitioners who have more well-rounded, root cause working nutrition mindset, or it can still use the medications until you don't need them anymore, and that should be guided by a coach. You should bring a coach into your life. You should bring a coach into your family's life and you will see the epic changes that occur from that. And if you underestimate what I'm saying, you will highly hurt your altitude in life. Hands down.

01:02:25 - Chase (Host) All I can say to that is you know, that's why I married one.

01:02:28 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, Amen bro.

01:02:29 - Chase (Host) Yes, my wife is now a nurse practitioner who specializes in longevity medicine.

01:02:34 - Vince (Guest) I'm now your wife's biggest fan Congratulations, that's amazing. So you see how you're blending them together Absolutely. We call that hybrid health.

01:02:40 - Chase (Host) That's why, who is also an IIN coach? She got her Institute of integrated nutrition coaching. Yeah well, she needs to be an MMU. It sounds like it.

01:02:50 - Vince (Guest) But that's the point and we have to fight for each other. And the problem is I can tell you a couple things about your wife. I guarantee I can tell you right now. Send it. She's a hyper performer but has a hard time. She's kind of on her own, so she's doing of on her own soap, but it's she's doing it almost not alone, but she's the one that gets the vision and it's very hard to organize everyone around here to move it forward. Absolutely Okay, all the greats, yeah.

01:03:14 The reason that functional medicine isn't further along is because we're not collaborating. Big medicine is collaborating, but we are on our own little soapbox affecting our own little like community of influence, and the only way that we're going to make it operational and nationwide is if we collaborate. That's why my mission is the one in 100, to create one of her for every 100 people in the united states. That's how we'll change the morbidity curve forever. You're not going to change it through policy. Don't drink 36 ounce cokes. We're going to tax it. No one's. That's not going to save the kid who's living in a home that's only got doritos in the cupboard, like who doesn't? It has toxic people around him and is watching cnn and scrolling from five years old that that kid doesn't stand an effing chance growing up with zero dopamine.

01:04:01 Right, you got it blowing it out all the time. Yeah, the only way we're going to stop this, this if people think that, like a comment, or like COVID, or like whatever, if you think that that's what's going to get us, no, we're going to kill ourselves. Dude, by by 2030, 60% of the population will be obese. Come on, not, not overweight. 50 or, excuse me, 51% will be obese, not overweight, obese. Okay, we can't stop it. And there isn't enough semaglutide to do it. I'm telling you now, although that's going to help because it's a good tool, but people are going to abuse. It is all things. It has to be. If somebody comes into your life, creates a relationship, helps you make a change, that's the only way to get it done. So how are we going to do that? We create a fucking army. Well, guess what the fitness community has been doing? Things that are helpful but not totally, completely useful in the bigger picture of things like fitness gets bigger and we can get sicker.

01:05:01 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it makes me think actually something. I want to go back to a little bit of what you're talking about at the beginning. It's kind of just blowing my mind of how much this makes sense now, and I think we kind of grew up around the same era of fitness. We're now in the second decade of, or coming out of, the if it fits your macros kind of period.

01:05:19 - Vince (Guest) If it fits it shifts FedEx dieting yeah.

01:05:26 - Chase (Host) But here's the thing I want to point out, and I don't know about you, but I probably 9.5 out of 10 persons that I know that went through that bodybuilding training period dieting, if it's your macros is now so far removed from that, and not only are they removed from that because of just like the boredom and feeling, but like they're having significant health problems, particularly everyone I know 9.9, whatever. Yeah, their hormones are fucked.

01:05:50 Fucked hormones are fucked, so it kind of that's how I got my start yeah, like I can't think of a single person right now that I know from that period yes, that is not going through some kind of massive reconfiguration of their diet, needing hormone therapy, needing hormone help, needing just like so much extra help. And it's like mind-blowing for them because, like, wait, no, I put the same amount of calories in the same amount of food. I got these results. Like, why am I having such problems now?

01:06:16 - Vince (Guest) because, because the people out there that want to make the body a machine are missing the point. The body is not a machine and what I mean by that is that a machine. If you give it an exact input, it gives you an exact output. A body is an ecosystem and it requires balance to be operational.

01:06:33 Okay, to optimize, to give it what you, to get what you want out of it, because we don't respect it as an ecosystem looking at multiple variables, because we're simple humans and we only want to look at macros to try to make life simpler, we're missing the bigger picture. And so when you want to say it's just calories in, calories out, and make other people feel shamed or stupid because they don't understand that you, sir, are the ignorant one. And what you don't know cause I went through that is you're going to hurt a lot more people on that journey than you're going to help, and you're going to get to the end of that road and realize that, like I, left the most important pieces out Most of the time. This is why life coaching and health coaching need to go together. Those people are actually looking for real leadership and guidance and they're getting macros, and this is the problem.

01:07:15 So then remember what I told you about diet variation. The problem is is that you got so myopic about calories in and calories out, you are missing the diversity aspect. And when you miss that, you've messed the body up. Yeah, that's why people like the billion dollar don't die guy. Then they're going to mess themselves up because they're overthinking and they're getting myopic.

01:07:36 And the body is not about getting too specialized, it's about generalists. We have to generally understand everything and organize it and then the body will give you what it wants. But because we don't understand any of these things, we get obsessed, we get locked in on a thing that we can control. And when we over control and we over obsess, we always ruin our metabolisms, our bodies, whatever In fitness. We go there seeking fulfillment, okay, we get a positive outcome, and then we get obsessed and there's nobody talking about the other side of it. So you just keep going. More is more.

01:08:18 And the problem is, if you don't learn about diet variation and you don't learn about how to optimize for both performance and longevity, if you don't learn about, um, how to change your metabolism, if you don't learn about how to keep your hormones healthy, and or don't learn about any of it and just go to a someone who's got wisdom and not knowledge or just a bunch of success stories, like I could make any woman lean, but if I'm, if I'm hurting seven out of them, but you don't see. You only see my success stories on my page, cause what I'm hurting seven out of them but you don't. You only see my success stories on my page, cause what I'm doing is I'm having him do an hour of cardio every single day, an hour of training every single day, and I'm feeding him next to nothing. That's going to make them look good. And you go Ooh, that guy knows what he's doing. No, that guy knows that is.

01:08:57 It's a stupid human trick button and I'm going to make, yeah, you give abuse anybody and make it look good for a little while when they're 19 years old, but then how are you going to clean up the mess that you left at 37? Exactly.

01:09:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I think now, if you're listening and if you've gone through that, if it's your macros period and you got these crazy results, you were so myopic to your point I'd be willing to bet one, if not all three of these areas. You are struggling with gut, microbiome, hormones and you're probably pretty damn lonely, depressed, lack of community, thinking all these things. We're going to get you attached to a community and solve a lot of these problems. Leadership, like you're talking about gut health, hormone health and mental Yep.

01:09:39 - Vince (Guest) Now I don't want to shame the community altogether, because the inspiration to go into that community and that community itself. Do you know that those people, all they really want to do is be good at something and then be useful. That's what they really want. The gym saved my life because it was the first thing that showed me I could be good at something if I applied consistency, and that's. The gym is beautiful, fitness is beautiful, but if it's not balanced correctly, then then we'll drive it off a cliff, like the number two reason the internet's uses pornography. Does that make the internet bad? No, it just means humans take powerful things and abuse it Right, and so that's why there has to be the right leadership as you're going through it, because I want to convert all.

01:10:19 If you go into any LA fitness or any gym, there are people in there that all they want to do is help people. If LA Fitness or any gym, there are people in there that all they want to do is help people, if you go, I hate Planet Fitness's view of fitness people because I promise you, if you take someone that doesn't know what they're doing and they legitimately walk up to any big guy or anybody that's fit and go. I really don't know how to use this. Can you show me how that's going to make their day? All they wanted you to do was ask them that. What do you think they're doing like they want to be valued they're in search, right, they're in search now there are some that go alpha and they get rude and like all that.

01:10:52 Okay, it does exist. Especially if you get on too much steroids. It just can make you more of what you are. I understand that. But most of those people want to be made useful and that's why I'm I'm a call to any of those people. If you want to call to a higher purpose, uh, we can convert people at our university in a couple weeks to teach you everything that I know and get you out there changing fucking lives really quick so that you because fitness is root cause medicine it is a component, but you weren't given all the other tools and when you learn how, putting them all together, you can still be a meathead and spiritually fit and like the all, all that stuff, and that's what my I want to convert those people. There's your army yeah, there's. There's the. There's 2 000 game. Still be a meathead and spiritually fit and like the all all that stuff, and that's what my I want to convert those people. There's your army yeah, there's. There's the.

01:11:29 There's 2000 game changers in LA right now and they're they're sitting at the 24 hour fitness. They're sitting at the. They just need to be activated. They just need to be activated. Dude, there's game changers out there. They just want to be useful. I know so many.

01:11:41 - Chase (Host) Absolutely yeah.

01:11:42 - Vince (Guest) Anyone listening, watching the show is one of those people Exactly you get it, yeah, and so again, I don't want to overshame the fitness community, but I want us people to understand that it will let us down at some point, because the end of that road is not what you're looking for, but it's part of the road.

01:11:56 - Chase (Host) I want to shift into a kind of getting towards the end here. This has been such a powerful conversation, man Like you're. It's palpable. I think a lot of what maybe people are already picking up on here is we're talking, we get to a point of optimization and I think a big mistake people make when they focus on optimization also I think it's just a trending word and aspect of life right now is they jump straight to optimization without having foundation, exactly, exactly yeah, I'm talking to myself so like walk us through why someone should not consider again not to like beat a dead horse, but we've talked about why should we not consider optimization?

01:12:33 What are things in the foundation we should be really be building and keeping first, and then what are the first optimization tactics supplements, peptides, hacks, whatever you want to do or call it, um that are really going to move the needle for the majority of people?

01:12:48 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, I think what happens is we become specialists and we need to be generalists. But generalists isn't sexy because it's not trending, and so the reason why what I'm saying this for is that, because of the world, we'll get focused on red light therapy cold baths, which I still love and I promote on my page, like I love that stuff. We'll get focused on red light therapy, cold baths, which I still love and I promote on my page Like I love that stuff. It's all great, but if, if you get lost in doing that and then you don't realize what you're eating, or you get lost in doing that and you're only sleeping four hours, or you get lost in doing that and your top five relationships are toxic.

01:13:20 - Chase (Host) You're doing all of that alone, without anybody.

01:13:22 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, or you're off in that and you don't realize that you're confusing social media for real connection, cause you know the number one illness, or like causes. Illness is not food, it's isolation. Wow, the devastating effects of isolation on our psychology and our bodies is outrageous. It's the most brutal form.

01:13:40 And I'm on here and I go Ooh, I'm getting connection, people are paying attention to me, though that's only meeting your need for significance, it's not meeting your need for connection, and so the problem is, when we get disconnected, we're not getting oxytocin and serotonin, it's dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, and when that happens, we become emotional addicts.

01:14:02 - Chase (Host) It's dopamine out, it's all dopamine out in that scenario. Yeah.

01:14:09 - Vince (Guest) And we're just trying to get more. Yeah, exactly yeah. The most addictive thing in human beings almost the most is just this, this finger movement. The psychology of it is insane. Like that movement is almost more addictive than anything. Can you believe it? How many times, how many times have you been on your phone, have you done this? I'm scrolling and I'm having an out of body experience. So now cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm over here, I'm sitting here, I'm watching me do this, and then the person over here is like are you going to stop? Are you going to keep doing that? Like, is this, is this what we're doing? Like, are you, are you going?

01:14:36 - Chase (Host) to? Are you going to back in?

01:14:37 - Vince (Guest) and you didn't even realize are you going to hold on a second, like wait. I'm just uh, I'm just doing this. All right, at some point I'll tell you what I'm going to.

01:14:45 - Chase (Host) I swear I'm going to stop in like one minute, uh uh, okay, I'm done, just waiting to see one thing that actually hits.

01:14:53 - Vince (Guest) So that's the search for dopamine. That's also called anhedonia, which is that that, that the low chasing certainty and significance all the time, because that's where dopamine comes from. We lose all connection when we lose connection, particularly with women. Women require enough oxytocin and serotonin to make their nervous systems work correctly and their cortisol stay combated. Men don't use oxytocin as much as women do. That's why isolation to women becomes so, so detrimental. All of us it is, but you'll see it more in women. That's why isolation to women becomes so, so detrimental. All of us it is, but you'll see it more in women. That's why high level female professionals, when they get to a certain level that it's hard to find men and all they're doing is working, having work relationships and then going home, you'll see the rates of illness go up 10%. So that's why high level professional female executives are very sick and they're overweight. They're all overweight, most of them, most of them.

01:15:49 - Chase (Host) Well, I would even say underweight.

01:15:50 - Vince (Guest) But a lot of health problems.

01:15:52 - Chase (Host) Yes, yeah.

01:15:53 - Vince (Guest) Either way, right. It goes one way your metabolism is really tanks and you get gained a lot of weight, or you're underweight and you're dealing with all kinds of health issues. It goes one of the ways. Yeah, so that's what happens, right, so, so, so that would be the thing. That's why I, that's why it's important. Fitness is a great example. Oh, I just go to the gym and I eat my protein and like I'm locked and it's like like that's yes, great, start there, build confidence, but you better have someone wise in your life that like keeps you going on that track. So I always like to start there, right, for people outside of that Okay, so now, sleep is the ultimate superpower.

01:16:31 We just you can burn the jets, but you've got to get and I know what they say People. Yes, you can get adapted to six hours, that's fine, but, people, if you actually averaged out your amount of sleep, you'd be amazed. So in our, we track all kinds of biofeedback. We got you on an hrv monitor. We're watching blood glucose. We've got a cgm. We're watching these variables through your process. We're also tracking the amount of hours you're doing different things socializing versus like, sleeping versus like whatever because we're trying to measure the variables to make sure you're getting enough of the right medicine this is all quantitative data measurements or anything qualitative in there as well.

01:17:05 Well, qualitative happens through our coaching sessions to say how are we feeling.

01:17:09 - Chase (Host) And then the notes section about how, feeling associated to all these biomarkers and biometrics? Yes, okay, yeah, crucial, crucial, crucial.

01:17:16 - Vince (Guest) Yeah. So we're watching all of this and then we also have we make people have connection. We have accountability pods. You're forced into pods. We want you to come to our classes. You also get your one-on-one coaching and we have our medical team come in and look over the top, that's. We've just kind of created a layer because I got tired of dealing with doctors Like you. Granted that, I said I'm done, I'm going to go ahead and open my own. That's why I opened my own medical clinics and then I just I leveraged them, that's weren't going to listen to me.

01:17:42 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I left too. I get it, man.

01:17:44 - Vince (Guest) I was like Don, I'm not doing this for you because you're not getting it. So, so, all of those things first, then then after that. If I were to tell people what some of the most important biohacks and things that you can do are, I'm going to tell you right now. Um, the one of the absolute best is is cold, cold therapy.

01:18:01 - Chase (Host) Um, if you're a water cold plunge yeah.

01:18:04 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, the mammalian dive reflex is the most important thing that people don't know about. Yeah, it's super important that you can calm your nervous system with cold exposure. Um, not, I hate when people misunderstand a stimulus versus the net outcome of a stimulus. Like, for example, everybody understands that with working out. Working out it hurts, but then it causes an anti-inflammatory health effect. However cold, no, you shouldn't do cold. So should people do nothing? Should they not work out? Because that causes an inflammatory effect too. Like, what are you saying? Like you don't even know what you're saying. Like it's, it's logical. It's not wise.

01:18:40 So I love that. I love morning routines. I'm telling you, your circadian clock, getting up before the rest of the world, is one of the best performance hacks on planet earth, or planet earth. I'm telling you now, if you get up an hour before the rest of the world, you will ultimately be more successful and much healthier. For it Period, typically Okay.

01:18:57 So keeping your circadian clock to the best of your ability is one of the best things that you can do. These simple things. I know they're not sexy. I understand. It's not buying the pemf, pemf mat, it's not the, I don't know like it's, it's, it's not whatever. I love peptides too. Yeah, and we go there next. Yeah, but you got to have these fundamentals together. Protein should be your probably your key macronutrient. You should switch it up a couple times a year. You definitely have to get in activity. The number one, the number one longevity thing is just walking or or something that produces serotonin while you do it so like bocce ball or whatever like creates pickleball now pickleball. What's crazy is the. The research shows that's probably better than anything in terms of longevity.

01:19:43 - Chase (Host) Yeah I I don't know if it was like a study or like people are pushing now for like to be the number one activity for longevity is going to be pickleball. I think it used to be tennis, yeah, but now, like, because pickleball is so much, has less intensity, yes, on, you know the joints and just you know risk for injury and stuff like that.

01:20:01 - Vince (Guest) But it's all community based now, granted, do I have all kinds of cool biohacks. I could go over and we could do a whole pod. We can have a lot of fun, the dessert of cool things that you can do If someone's at home, the best thing they could do for their health. In my opinion, if it's like something X's and O's, the number one biohack is make sure that you have a I like dopamine reset nervous system, resetting walks post meal so you can do one right in the morning. Your, your morning routine is super important, whether people like want to believe that or not. I know Alex Romo's. He doesn't have one, but this dude has one. Okay, I got one. Yeah, Damn right, right, or I get insane, right. So, like we, we want to. We're not going to, we're going to handle it and get, get get my glasses of perspective on and like rock.

01:20:39 - Chase (Host) The thing that rattles me the most, most in life, is when that gets you know, shifted exactly I wake up neurotic.

01:20:47 - Vince (Guest) I wake up as a natural state because of your genes. You wake up neurotic. You wake up for looking for what's wrong. Like you're looking, you're surveying the land. I got to get this done. This might happen, this could happen, right. That's why if, like that's why that's not a bad thing if, like zombie apocalypse happened, you'll survive because you're always looking for what's wrong, congratulations. It just it.

01:21:05 - Chase (Host) just I'm a prepper, but I've been planning, I know so.

01:21:07 - Vince (Guest) so just understand, you're a you are a beast set for a certain environment, and you got to recalibrate that to be successful in this environment. That's all that is right. You're not broken. You just need to be optimized. All right, all right, and so what? What I want people to recognize, though, is 10 minute post-prandial walks for longevity and health, but when I say walks, I don't want you. I want you in your body, not out of your body, so I want you thinking meditation. I want you to think about talking to God. I want you to think about going in your body of gratitude walking with someone conversing.

01:21:41 I almost want dopamine reset with no stimulation, Headphones, quiet or frequency therapy 532. Yeah, Love frequency therapy Because that calming of your nervous system and the dopamine calms your immune system calms inflammation. Micro amounts of that daily add up to a massive. Your body does more of what you want it to do. You're able to sleep better.

01:22:05 - Chase (Host) Are we talking the same kind of a magic eight to 12 window as before eight to 12 week window? Is that? Kind of, if we do these things, we can kind of get that same peak experience.

01:22:14 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, yeah. And I again and I don't want to take the fun away I'm people listening to this like, oh my God, I've heard that all the time and it's like, well, okay, if you've heard it all the time but you're still not where you want to be, you're probably not listening, you know, and so. But I did want to point those things out. I mean, they're just, they're just super fundamental that everyone should be doing that. They're not. I've. I've hard pressed to find someone who's hitting all of those. You know what I'm saying? Like. So it's like, why are we talking about anything outside of that if we're not doing some of those things? After that, then it's fun. Peptides of the future. If you don't know about them, you better know about them. They're here and they're not going anywhere.

01:22:51 - Chase (Host) They are the future I want to get there real quick and I know actually, uh, thomas man, I know, uh, we're over like block time for this. I don't have anywhere to go, are you? Are we good on time? Chantelle went over to studio. A. Okay, how are we looking on? What's the runtime? Hour 23? Okay, okay, okay, okay, cool. I'm thinking, okay, perfect, yeah, I would love to. You got time. I want to, kind of I'm going to really hit all this stuff. I might either I might split this up, but yeah, or man, listen, listen, I got no problem, I'll come out again.

01:23:27 - Vince (Guest) It gives you good content, because you shifted your. Oh my bad. No, no, you're fine, you just he did, or me, me, me yeah you know, amateur hour.

01:23:40 - Chase (Host) Um, all right, yeah, so I would love to get into. I think that first front end was like just incredible foundational wake up, yeah. So now let's get like the optimization got that nice segue. Let's you know the peptide stuff, because I am one. Peptides are something I've been um, I don't even know I couldn't call it new anymore in my life. They've been a part of my routine three years ish, um, and I think they have profound I I've experienced profound benefits. I've experienced some that, like I couldn't tell you if they did anything at all.

01:24:11 - Vince (Guest) That's why and anything, anything great, becomes predatory. So let's be clear Okay, anything that I tell you today is me with our teams, looking at the research, but then hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clinical experience. It's very important to find somebody when you want to know about something that you trust their wisdom. Do I think they're honest? Are they telling me something Cause they're trying to sell me something, or they're really in the pursuit of truth? Find that person that's also done it a lot. That's very hard to find. You understand. Those are the variables that I look for If I'm going to listen to somebody. Is there integrity? Because there's a lot of people that you're going to meet that have knowledge. No integrity. They may have integrity, but they're really trying to sell you something hard, so their bias is leveraged. So, okay, I don't like that. And then the third thing is do they do the thing all the time?

01:24:59 So you see a lot of doctors like Mark Hyman. You see Peter Attia. They talk about they slammed GLP ones. Slam them. None of them use them. I know their clinics, I work with their clients. You don't know anything about it.

01:25:15 So what are you spouting your mouth off for when you don't know? Cause you want clicks right, but that's that just is. You know. Could you say how? About you clarify? Hey everybody, I don't actually use these, but here's what I'm thinking.

01:25:29 The data says that's not what they're saying. They're making declarative statements. They're saying this is what it's going to do. That's bullshit and guys like that should be held to account. Okay, cause you're supposed to be the you know, the leaders of this industry and you're just out there spouting your mouth off and you don't know what you're talking about Me. That's why, when I look at people dead in the eye, I'm like I know I do the thing at a very, very high level and I've seen so much volume that I can give you wisdom related to the actual thing. I've seen it past 12 weeks in the peptide world. The only limiting factor is that the research is either vitro or vivo, meaning what You're not you're you're getting. You're testing cells by themselves or you're testing it in, like rats, mice or whatever they don't have. Now there are certain peptides that have lots of research, but they don't have as many randomized human control trials, which is the gold standard. So we have to realize that a new world is emerging, but it can be manipulated.

01:26:29 - Chase (Host) Now, does that matter as much when we're looking at something as a peptide not speaking personally? When you can take it and personally you get such an amazing benefit, shouldn't we be focusing on what moves the needle for us when we get into the optimization world, versus needing proof from a randomized human clinical trial?

01:26:49 - Vince (Guest) There are many things that you can take right now that will give you an early effect, but then the net is a negative. Adderall, that'll give you a lot of energy, right?

01:26:55 - Chase (Host) Cocaine we just talked about that.

01:26:57 - Vince (Guest) No, listen, there'll be a positive benefit in the beginning. Let me give you an example. There are side effects to overusing NAD. Like what? So not everybody needs it and not everyone needs it all the time. Yes, not everyone needs it all the time. It'll lose its effect and in certain people, it actually causes them to pass out, causes diarrhea. There's different things that, like, nad is still good, but is it right for you? That's why we like to do genetics tests, cause it tells us a little bit more about you and what it is so like. Yes, most things are good and we can be excited about them, but, like, there are people out there that get excited about something and take too much of it. Brian the billionaire overdid the ramp of myosin and screwed himself up. In my opinion, he looks older for going through this.

01:27:49 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's like the Benjamin Button effect, you know like. Yeah, you might be like technically anti-aging, but you look like a young old.

01:27:56 - Vince (Guest) I'm going to be honest with the telomere data. By the way, it's highly fallible, like to say that. Your exact biological age, like I don't. Yeah, how do we know that?

01:28:07 - Chase (Host) That at your exact biological age, like I don't.

01:28:08 - Vince (Guest) Yeah. How do we know that? That's what. Okay. So you're like is the reference data really good enough? And then we see it in people that actually live longer, like I. Just you have to be. This is what I mean. We have to be a little careful about the world that we hear.

01:28:19 - Chase (Host) I don't go off by, I don't even care about biological but I think also not to keep nitpicking brian johnson, but also like isn't that kind of his shtick to where we have no standard, we have no reference for really any of the things that he's doing. I think he's trying to become that reference, become that standard.

01:28:34 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, and listen, I'm not. I'm glad that people like him exist. I just want people to be careful getting too myopic on one thing and not realizing that it, like everything, has a pro and a con, and so we just have to understand that we, when we wade into the world of peptides, we want to listen to somebody who's willing to tell you the con too, because doctors don't about medications. Do you go in and go? Okay, here's the deal. Like we want to try and keep you on this long, because these are the things that can happen. When's it? When's an OB told, ob told, talked about the negative effect of a birth control? Ever? Right, we did. We don't have these conversations. It's not full disclosure, it's promotion and that damn, that's a harsh truth yeah shit, do you know?

01:29:16 most, most medical health organizations, uh, networks. The problem right now is that insurance companies are paying less and less and they pay out per prescription, so we're incentivizing health community to give more drugs for the solution.

01:29:37 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you know, in England doctors are actually incentivized through financial and other bonuses when their patients don't need to see them as often or they have actual. That's interesting yeah.

01:29:48 - Vince (Guest) I wonder how well that's actually playing out, cause I'm not going to say that the healthcare in Europe's better than it is here, but uh, I love, I love the idea, yeah, I love the idea of it.

01:29:57 It's like Plinko Sometimes you add a variable and it's like I have no idea where this is going to go. Is it going to be a good or a bad thing where this is going to go. Is it going to be a good or a bad thing? But I agree with you, something has to change there and we talk a lot about that. But, um, so, coming back to the peptides, now that we've had the adult like conversation about peptides okay, like warning, you're waning into waters where we don't fully know everything. But enough have been around for a really long time that have solid, fundamental research. That also we have seen in so many people that we can have really some fun conversations.

01:30:31 And peptides, because they're at the peptide level, have less risk of side effect than something that's at the protein level. That's why you have amino acids, amino acids. Amino acids come together in strands that are make peptides. Peptides come together to make proteins right. And so when you break things down to the peptide level just like take, for example, collagen protein, collagen protein has some benefits. You can denature a protein really easy.

01:30:55 But one of the benefits is if actually you extract a peptide that makes it medicinal and then make that in an abundant amount and then give that to somebody. That could be therapy. That's why I like collagen peptides versus collagen protein. So peptides allow us to get down a little more granule to what specifically is working inside of a protein, or specifically manipulate the body in a way that creates a very scalpel like intended outcome, which is that's great, that's cool stuff, which is which is why, like some people that are really worried about skin cancer, one of the things I tell them to do is, well then, stay out of the sun at key high radiation times, use very little zinc oxide and then, for the rest of it, use melanotan too. Melanotan, too, will make you tan. I don't think people know this. You can take a peptide that will make you tan and reduce your risk.

01:31:44 Yeah, that's what. So you know, it's like there's so many things that we can do that people just don't have no idea that this peptide world where things are heading that like help us make like all these little cool technical changes in our life and have a great like optimization. That's why I love peptides. So when we have this conversation, it's like, um, we could, we could start wherever, but um, what would you? What do you want?

01:32:09 - Chase (Host) to talk about. Let me ask you which currently popular peptide do you think isn't really worth the hype and which one is okay? Bpc one five seven. Are there other versions? I only know BBC has one five seven. One five seven.

01:32:25 - Vince (Guest) It definitely is good in tablet for the gut, unless you've got a really severe condition. Um, longevity can be great in high doses, but the micro dose that they're having people at 200 mics or whatever, 250 or one, 50 twice a day, that's not doing anything for anybody.

01:32:41 - Chase (Host) What about, uh the pill versus sub Q?

01:32:44 - Vince (Guest) uh for injury. I like subq better remember. I like bpc, I take it, but I have to really get a great outcome. I have to take it with thymus and beta 4 and bpc at high dose, called the wolverine protocol I just got this.

01:32:57 - Chase (Host) I haven't started it, but yeah, I just got.

01:32:58 - Vince (Guest) Oh, now that's good okay, but now you're spending a lot of money. I'm trying to be realistic to most people, right so I, so I don't know what your source is either. That's why I created.

01:33:06 - Chase (Host) That's why I created my own medical company. Well see, I don't want to. I hate this guy shit.

01:33:10 - Vince (Guest) So we're talking about peptides and people are going to try to go find where to get them.

01:33:14 - Chase (Host) You see, he's a biochemist, biochemist at a genetics facility.

01:33:20 - Vince (Guest) So there you go. You know, you have a good litmus test for who your guy should be. I don't trust that they do. Okay, like your best friend Tony, down the street and wherever he's getting his effing peptides from, like I'm, I'm good, right. So so that's why I opened up vital med um, vital med you. We, we sell peptides really inexpensive to try, but we but it's pharmaceutical gradec's off the shelves now right.

01:33:43 - Chase (Host) Fda pulled it, I think, last year.

01:33:44 - Vince (Guest) Well, no, the dude. Deca, penta deca, penta deca, what is it called? My goodness, now I'm gonna sound stupid. Guys, hold on, don't let me sound stupid.

01:33:53 - Chase (Host) Some like uh, I think, some no, they still have bbc, it's just under a different name and a lot of places are still making it.

01:33:59 - Vince (Guest) We still have it. Uh, it's is now Deca Penta.

01:34:06 - Chase (Host) Is that a formulation change or just like a, something like that?

01:34:09 - Vince (Guest) Peptide. Hold on, let me get the name for it. Yeah, it's basically. It's almost exactly the same. No, there's a new Penta-Deca-Peptide. Penta-deca-peptide.

01:34:22 - Chase (Host) PDB is the new BBC. Yeah, huh.

01:34:25 - Vince (Guest) Yes, so the game is going to keep being played. Yeah, to make a slight change to the peptide. They're not going to, they can't stop it.

01:34:32 - Chase (Host) So you're saying BBC you love, that's one that's really worth the hype.

01:34:35 - Vince (Guest) So no, bpc the way it is presented to everybody is this miracle thing is not true. It's very nice. It can help heal injuries a little bit faster by itself. It's when you add TB500 or thymus and beta-4, we see, oh my gosh, you stack those together, you can heal from injuries 50% faster. My COO broke his leg was walking on it in four weeks. I'm not kidding you. This is the Wolverine stack you're talking about. Yeah, dude, but you're getting in a higher dose. It's called chemical pressure. So the dose is that they're telling people and you're gonna have this amazing result. You're not okay, so this is the problem. So you need to be very targeted about what you want it for. In general, is bpc good? Yeah, it's a nice thing to have, but I'm not gonna have you spend 250 dollars every two weeks on it for a my like, iffy outcome unless you're kind of going through like an acute yes, like yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah exactly it can.

01:35:32 It can have. It can be scalpel, it can be great, but just like randomly taking it as a preventative thing, no, absolutely not. It's oversold, completely not true? Right, um, now this is where we can start having fun. The longevity ones that are the best are the secretagogues or some of the incretins. So this is like tesamoralin. Tesamoralin is one of my favorite because it has less like it helps. It's like a growth agonist, so it stimulates just like a growth hormone would, without overstimulating IGF-1. So one of the problems with taking a large amounts of growth hormone is that not that there's been any research that it grows tumors or anything like that, but downstream it will affect IGF-1, insulin growth factor. Igf-1 has been known to maybe increase the risk of tumors.

01:36:22 - Chase (Host) Well, that's kind of the risk I've heard overall with a lot of peptides, especially BBC-157. And I know a lot of people. A good clinician will ask you have any history personal or family history of cancer? Because you introduce some of these peptides it can increase every cell.

01:36:36 - Vince (Guest) Brother, oh brother okay, see, this is why this is just what I've heard yeah, no, this is good information, statistics without like the story or statistics without context is lying.

01:36:50 Okay, let me explain why. Okay, if you have cancer, anything can grow it. Glutathione can grow cancer. They've shown it. I see where we're going, yeah. So what are we talking about? Yeah, yes, if you have cancer, you probably shouldn't take anything. You need to be getting your cancer treatments. But and then? What does cancer talking about? Yes, if you have cancer, you probably shouldn't take anything. You need to be getting cancer treatments. And then what does cancer actually mean? Because your body, if you have a healthy immune system. That's why taking things that balance immune function, even if it could grow cancer, also could help your immune system get rid of cancer. It's highly likely in the data that you get cancer eight to ten times in your life, or you always get micro potential cancerous cells. Provided that your immune system works correctly, it will get rid of them when they turn multi-celled and they get too large. Now we've got a problem?

01:37:33 - Chase (Host) Yeah, Most people walk around every day with some version of cancer or or yes, building up to, but then yeah, your point, the immune system kicks in and clears it.

01:37:41 - Vince (Guest) Yes, and that's why it's you want to be careful over scanning yourself, because you might see something that your body's in the process with and then you go in to get it and you actually cause yourself the illness. This is why we sometimes, when we get too myopic, we hurt ourselves. So that's why I always want to be a little careful. It's like oh, peptides might cause cancer. Anything might cause cancer. If we're, if we're going to be, worried about a peptide like are you eating that chicken nugget? Do you know you have cancer Cause. Like that's going to draw like stress hormone. Nothing's going to draw cancer faster than stress hormone and glucose.

01:38:12 - Chase (Host) Okay, so like okay, what are we talking about? So we can back off the gas a little bit on, you know, peptides and the whole cancer thing.

01:38:18 - Vince (Guest) Yeah, okay, yeah. There's no evidence, by the way, that almost any peptide at this point the fundamental ones grow cancer. There's no evidence of that All right, yeah.

01:38:28 - Chase (Host) And then what about GLP-1? I actually saw some old content of yours or you talked about some old content to where, when they kind of came on the scene a few years ago, you were very anti, or at least anti in general application GLP-1. And I think you've kind of changed your tune. Why and what is the benefit here of GLP-1 for optimization?

01:38:49 - Vince (Guest) Here's a perfect example of why I feel like I can be useful to people. So when I was a medical consultant, I worked in all the major different clinics so metformin clinics, like different drug clinics that were that focused on either SSRIs or they focus on diabetes or they focus on so I got to see lots of patients from multiple different clinics, how the clinicians approached the problem of the condition and then what was the response of the body. And I got to see it and then watch the behaviors. You understand and, having my knowledge, glps early on, the early GLP drugs were not great. Okay, a lot of side effects, okay so.

01:39:31 But the problem is is that metformin is not holding people anymore. In fact, in some people it's making people way worse. So in the clinics where you start loading up metformin, remember your body is a what? Adaptive creature. So if you start to, if you're like, oh, the problem inside the body this is my going to be my argument for everybody. If I go to calorically restrict or go to low carb or I put metformin in to deal with my pre-diabetes or my diabetes, the argument that you're making is that the whole issue with my health is the supply of carbohydrates. Okay yeah, that is faulty as AF. It's not true, for example is are the cartels the problem with the drug problem in the United States today? No, we want to get high, okay. So it's the demand issue, it's not the supply issue, yeah. So what's causing the demand inside the body? Okay, it's the cell. So a cell can get damaged and then doesn't absorb the glucose.

01:40:27 So if carbs were the problem, then we can just remove carbs and everyone will get better. It's not Carbohydrates. While they convert into glucose in your body, so does protein. So we got to stop. The reason we think carbs are the problem is that when we eat carbs, we see a little bit of a higher spike for one hour, but not realizing that every food that we eat will spike us a little bit and then at two hours it should be gone.

01:40:51 The average blood glucose you have in your body is not because of carbs, it's inflammation, and that's governed by your immune system, like the reserve that the traffic jam in your blood vessels has nothing to do with the carbs. Now it can go faster if you eat inflammatory carbs. Okay, sure, yeah, they're not connected. Yeah, and so like that's why if you try to go get healthy when you're very unhealthy. Watch your blood sugars when you go to protein. It'll just it'll just make sugar out of that. It'll take your steak and make it a mars bar. Okay, we watch it all the time. Put a cgm on people that are really stressed out or really inflamed, it doesn't matter that's an eye-opening experience right.

01:41:31 So, like what I want people to get out of this, what I'm telling you is that the the so with metformin. This is comes back to this, the same principle of the ssri. You want to start, you want to understand ssris? Look at metformin. You put metformin in the body. What does it do? Shuts down what Sugar release from what the liver. So, basically, like releasing glycogen, basically, and sugar from the liver. Okay, so great news. Now your sugar's dropped for a little bit. Okay, you get a couple pounds lost Great, okay. Now your sugars are not spiking as much Okay, cool, that's good. Now, if you're making dietary changes, that's big. You're having an identity shift that's big. All that should hopefully be happening. That's why, if you take an antidepressant, you should be getting therapy. If I'm going to take metformin, I should be dealing with a nutritionist or coach, okay, but here's what happens. So I'm working in these clinics. They start using more and more metformin Every once. We got this figured out, we're just going to give people metformin. It's going to be fucking great. Oh yeah Okay, you get five years down the road.

01:42:32 Most of these people can't lose weight anymore and their sugars are skyrocketing. Why? Because the body goes. Oh, the demand in the body. We didn't fix the cell. We didn't fix the lifestyle either. Okay, so the demand didn't go down. You just cut off supply. The body's going to get what it wants. So what is it going to do? Oh, you, you raise me metformin. Well, I'll see you and raise you, and what I'll do is you're shutting me off at the liver. So I'll go to the pancreas and I'll start dumping glucagon. Glucagon is the hormone that will convert protein into sugar. Basically, like, it calls for glycolysis to occur, so a good glycogen to come out, so your, so glucagon will raise your sugars. So what happened to people is, you started seeing this explosive side effect of metformin and now people are trying to stack two or three other drugs, trying to get the sugars under control. They're worse now. You've seen it. You've seen it. So why was there an escalation? Why did metformin drop you and then explode worse?

01:43:42 It's adaption of the body. The body will adapt to what you're doing to it. It's adaption of the body. The body will adapt to what you're doing to it. This is why, if you try to play the neurotransmitter game and you're like, oh, I'll give you a serotonin reuptake inhibitor so that, like you keep serotonin active. That's what it does. It blocks it from recycling, so it stays active in your. What is your body going to do? It's going to stop making. It's not going to lower what you're bringing in it. You act like it's a machine.

01:44:05 - Chase (Host) It's an ecosystem no, it's what you're talking about really only when we're doing it long term. You know kind of said five years. I think we're at the point now where metformin has 12 weeks.

01:44:14 - Vince (Guest) Wow, so after 12 weeks, adaption starts to occur. It starts to occur. Okay, so it starts to occur. That doesn't mean it's like massive where you're going to notice it, but it starts to occur.

01:44:24 - Chase (Host) Should anyone be on Metformin for five years outside of like pre-diabetic diabetic?

01:44:28 - Vince (Guest) No, so it's. That's why, okay, do you know all my research? I'm not going to name names, because this is where I have many researchers in the longevity field that are my friends. These wonderful men are, um, we joke with each other. I can say this about me sometimes I'm dumb, smart. I can get so smart about something. I become dumb to everything around it. So like oh, metformin creates autophagy, metformin lowers blood sugars. Metformin good, I take metformin. Okay, so you start taking metformin and you keep taking metformin and guess what happens?

01:45:04 - Chase (Host) Your sugars start going up.

01:45:06 - Vince (Guest) Well, how does that happen? Principal formesis? We just went to this. A fat burner burns fat. You take it too long, it gains fat. You're going to get the opposite thing from the stimulus Caffeine. What stimulates will suppress. I drink one coffee, I'm happy. I drink two coffees I'm great, I drink three coffees. I'm tired but can't fall asleep. Alcohol I drink one drink, I'm great, I drink two drinks, I drink. I drink three drinks, I'm sleep, okay. So what will stimulate will eventually suppress? You, you, anyone listening to this now? Yeah, of course. Why is no?

01:45:37 - Chase (Host) okay If we understand we've all felt that, we've all been fucking think why is it not so?

01:45:41 - Vince (Guest) so, because the research doesn't go long enough. You're not oftentimes, and the other part of is that we so. So because the research doesn't go long enough you're not oftentimes and the other part of is that we're not seeing the side effects and we don't know what to do about it. So you just, you just keep going and you stack something to deal with the side effect that comes from the adaption. So what I want people to understand is that metformin there is a trick to it, and what I'm trying to teach doctors and what we teach at our universities pulsinging. What's that so? Pulsing is where you use something for a few days and take it out a few days, or you take it for 21 day cycles. It's diet variation. No, it's cycling. Cycling we all understand this in bodybuilding, but the world does not get that dude. We get that. They don't know that. When I teach doctors about cycling, their minds are melted and they go.

01:46:25 I've thought this forever. I thought this sounds familiar. You know, I've thought this, but I was too worried to do it. I was like you're diabetic, you want to get better metformin outcomes from them. Rotate it Right, Rotate it Right and so. So if you want to take metformin for longevity, cycle it Two days on high carb days, Two days off no carbs. Do not take metformin on no carbs, why? Because you're not feeding carbs, so it's not getting carbs. And then, when your body doesn't get carbs, what it's supposed to do is release some sugar into the body. If you're restricting that and you're not giving it carbs, it's going to create a severe adaption. It also leads to anxiety. So do you ever notice how every woman who chronically diets has anxiety?

01:47:11 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

01:47:12 - Vince (Guest) A nervous, dysregulated nervous system, reactive hypoglycemia. When your sugars get low from restricting too much, your RAS system controls your adrenal glands. So your RAS system is your heart, it's your lungs, it's your kidneys. So your rash system is your heart, it's your lungs, it's your kidneys, your and your adrenals. When your sugars get to go a little too low, your nervous system tells your rash system hey, we're not safe, it's not okay. So then the adrenals have to put out adrenaline. Why do they put out? Adrenalineine is the only hormone, or protein hormone, catecholamine neurotransmitter, if you will that stimulates the liver to release sugar. So when you're trying, when you try to diet too long, you will create anxiety because you'll constantly adrenaline has to constantly hit. So you're constantly in this like dysregulated state and it leads to and it leads to a state of living like that. Just like I told you, when I got sick with staff or the strep, it led to OCD and then the OCD became an independent problem. Chronic dieting leads to anxiety, which then becomes an independent problem.

01:48:17 - Chase (Host) This kind of reminds me of. Are you familiar with Chris Palmer? Dr Chris Palmer.

01:48:20 - Vince (Guest) A little bit Brain energy theory.

01:48:29 - Chase (Host) He has a pretty, he's been on the show and he has an incredible book, the brain energy theory, your brain energy method. Um basically making the claim and he's a harvard trained psychiatrist, um that all mental health is actually just a metabolic disorder yes, all mental health disease, all my all disease is metabolic.

01:48:43 - Vince (Guest) If you upregulate metabolism, you eliminate disease, which is why the clinics, what we do yeah, that's why we. How you metabolize hormones, how you metabolize toxins, how you metabolize food. And the last one is how do I metabolize my emotions? And they go together and what you'll notice is that someone who doesn't metabolize their emotions, they're holding trauma. What's their body start to do? Swell up. If they're not metabolizing their food. Very well, guess what happens to their emotions? They're not processing them either.

01:49:10 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, I mean, it seems so obvious, but it takes, it takes. It's swinging so far the other way for us to finally go. Huh, wait a second, maybe, maybe it is both, and that's the blessing of my life.

01:49:24 - Vince (Guest) because I was so sick, because I almost died with my addiction, because the path that I had to go, I was forced into this alternate reality that made me look at things differently and I started looking for patterns that mimic that, so that I saw things a little differently. And then I found practitioners who found their own little part of the missing puzzle, and another person and another person and I go, oh, I'm not that smart, I'm just obsessed. The comp teaching it makes me look really smart. And then I started organizing and putting the pieces together and then that's how I come up with these conclusions that then when you hear them, you're like, oh, that makes complete sense and you don't need to be harvard, you want to be a scientist, you don't need any of that, you can understand basic human behavior and and physiology and the behavior of the system and rare in in these conditions can be understood and that is always true, so like.

01:50:19 That's why I get a little worried when people are like who are you to say this? You're not the Harvard MD. Well, that Harvard MD, nine out of 10 times, has become so myopic. As a specialist, he has no clue what's going on, except for that one thing. If you're a children's heart surgeon, if you're a rocket scientist, then you better do. I don't want you to be good at anything else, just do that. But if you're trying to train the world on how to see things and what to do, I want generalist that are really good at organizing, like Steve jobs. You know he didn't build the phones, he organized it all. Right, people shit on him for that for the time, but no, that's what you need. You needed the organizer, yeah, and that's what I hope that people like you and me and others can help do it. It'd lead breadcrumbs to get people out of the things that are holding them back that they didn't even know. Liberate them from those things.

01:51:07 - Chase (Host) Well, shit, man, it's awesome, right? I gotta say, man, this has been so stimulating and eyeopening. And also, I gotta say I I'm beginning to get a little bit sidetracked, just because I feel so challenged in a positive way of what you were doing and what you're saying that I feel compelled and obligated to just like to dive deeper and to provide. We got to get you back on here, man. There's so many offshoot things that I'm like I got to research this, I got to look this up and like also follow up with what you're doing more of, because I love how we kind of started the conversation, kind of figuring out the basics for people and a wake up call for a lot of people to things.

01:51:43 I think some people it's going to be one of two buckets you have never heard before in your entire life and this is going to, like really put you on the right path. Or it's going to be a little like, hey, we knew this stuff all along, but you were ignoring your intuition, you were ignoring, ignoring what your body was whispering to you and then, maybe, unfortunately now it's screaming. You've got inflammation, you've got hormone disruption, you've got anxiety, you have, you know, a lot of things that we were talking about. But all under you know, collectively there is profound help that can be had without really doing a whole, whole lot. And that's where I think a lot of people stay stuck in their health is they think it's going to take this radical overhaul? It might for some people, but I would say going on a limb for most people it doesn't.

01:52:29 - Vince (Guest) The reality is, the smallest things could change a massive impact. And if anybody wants to try to quantify, like heard all this and then it was just too much information and you're feeling like I'm not going to do anything with it because it was too much, If you're not where you want to be, we have a simple process it's called it's a flush method that for 77 bucks you get a course. You can get two coaching sessions. We'll build a little program for you that kind of aligns. It makes it very easy. Organize it for you. If you don't get a massive outcome, we give you your money back. It's the lowest barrier to entry. Uh, vital V, I, D, A L flushcom. Okay.

01:53:01 - Chase (Host) Or check the show notes and video description box. It'll all be linked Listen.

01:53:04 - Vince (Guest) I'm not trying to trick you. I want to just give you a chance to see things from a radically different point of view and make you feel in a very short period of time, within 10 days, I can change your entire perspective if you give us a chance. And so if people would just be willing to just go check that out, if you've got someone who's struggling with a health issue it doesn't matter what it is a flush can help. It's this first start of the journey and then you can decide whether you want to go further, because it'll make more sense to you what I'm saying. Like you don't need to understand, just execute Right and then you'll understand.

01:53:29 Yeah, and so we, that's, we're all hands on. So I don't want people to get too much information to go. I can't do anything with this. I'm just simple as that. Like, check out vital flushcom.

01:53:41 It will regulate nervous system neurotransmitters. Flush it will regulate nervous system neurotransmitters, flush your body out, make you feel great, really give you a new perspective. And then, and then it introduces you to our ecosystem, our practitioners and our coaches, and go do I want to like go down this rabbit hole and start there? And if not, guys, at least go check me out YouTube, vince pit stick. Go to my Instagram, vince, underscore pit stick. It's literally pit and stick. You can't mess that up, um, and and at least just tell people about what you've heard here. That's that's all I can ask for because, uh, I think you can tell I like it, this, this stuff. It can be hard, cause I'm going against the grain on everybody, but it's very practical, it's very realistic, and then we've been able to reproduce it in over 55,000 people. And then my four F method is in over 1500 clinics across the world, reaches over 100 000 people a year hell of a population.

01:54:27 - Chase (Host) So that's what I mean.

01:54:28 - Vince (Guest) So like it's reproducible. What I'm saying to you isn't my one little clinic with 17 people and I'm trying to tell everyone how to live their lives.

01:54:33 - Chase (Host) It's very reproducible and documented so yeah, man, um, I got ideas. We're definitely gonna have you back.

01:54:39 - Vince (Guest) I want to get really we'll get technical about some nuance, for sure.

01:54:44 - Chase (Host) Um, but uh, to wrap it all up, man, the show is meant to bring on people, experts, thought leaders, community leaders, just people that I, you know, find value in, um to propel us forward in life, to keep living a life ever forward. So I always get my guest interpretation, those two words what does it mean to you If I were to say events, how do you live a life ever forward?

01:55:03 - Vince (Guest) What does that mean to you? It means I'm always approaching the two, my two spiritual needs growth and contribution. All organisms on a cellular level must continue to grow or they die, and people can. People want love, they want certainty. Sometimes they want variety, because they can't. Certainty is too boring. We'll get one of those things, we'll get significance or we'll get love and we think that that's enough and it won't be.

01:55:29 We have to approach our greater contribution to the world in one way or another, or we have to continue to grow personally, professionally, spiritually, because you'll feel like something's missing in your life without it and you'll blame your current life circumstance for it. But it's not that. It's that you're not meeting those final spiritual needs. Spiritual growth is required, and when I say spiritual, I mean you can put whatever name you want to it. But as you connect to the greater world, what is the connection that you leave and serve? You must complete that task or you have not completed your mission here and people don't understand that. So when you say, when you use those words, I'm saying that people need to find their way of continuing spiritual and physical growth without using the enemy of perfection to hold you back.

01:56:16 - Chase (Host) Oof oof man Never a right or wrong answer. I always appreciate every interpretation, but I love that one. Thanks, I love that one. Well, like I said, guys, you're going to check the video description box and the show notes. Everything Vince is talking about all this work, the coaching. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com.