EFR 877: Regenerative Medicine and How Stem Cells Can Help You Live Longer, Cure Cancer, Reverse Disease, Recover Faster and Boost Your Immune System with Dr. Joy Kong

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Joy (Guest) You're looking at something that's newly discovered, right Stem cells. What can they do? If you look at how the cells work, then you will say well, this person, there's a good chance this can help this person. However, there's still. All these doctors are still so limited to how they were trained that they couldn't see that this whole area of medicine is taking off. It's going to leave them behind. So all these things are not quite part of the medical system, which emphasizes usually drugs. What about deductive reasoning? Have you ever thought about deducing what the cells might do? Just looking at what it has done for autoimmune conditions, for all kinds of cancer? What about its ability to help tissue recover, to shift immune system, to not be as inflammatory? So all of these mechanisms and salvaging damaged tissue basically bring them to life and giving them new mitochondria. Hi, this is Dr Joy Kong. I'm a triple board certified stem cell specialist. Welcome to Ever Forward Radio.

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03:11 What's up everybody? Welcome back to Everford radio. I'm your host, chase tuning. I'm an army veteran, I am a wellness entrepreneur, I have an undergrad degree in exercise science, a master's in health promotion, concentration in nutrition, and you know I've actually been an ACE certified health coach since 2015. So 10 years now and I share all this with you. Just in case you're new to the show to go, who is this guy? What authority does he have? Why should I listen to him and the guests that he has on the show?

03:39 Well, I actually used to do this quote professionally for a living. I was a clinical health coach and wellness director. I ran upwards of nine practices back in the East Coast concierge medical practices, alongside our chief medical officer. I was in it every day, just working with patients to get them well and keep them well, and working side by side with their doctors, with a team of other health coaches, and I absolutely loved my job and it was during that time that I started the podcast.

04:06 Now, fast forward a few years. Here we are and I'm just doing this. I'm bringing all of my education, professional service to the show. And, speaking of professional service, I had the pleasure of sitting down today with Dr Joy Kong, who is still very much in clinic and helping people every day in similar ways that I did. But trust me, she's going to blow your mind when it comes to the world of longevity medicine and stem cells, way behind anything I was ever doing. Joy Kong MD is a UCLA trained, triple board certified physician. She's the president of Chara Health USA right here in Los Angeles, california, where she specializes in stem cell therapy, peptide therapy, ketamine therapy, as well as other integrated modalities to enhance overall health and combat chronic diseases.

04:53 I, for one, have been curious about stem cells for a long time and the way Dr Joy breaks them down today. Honestly, it was neck and neck. It was like the most scientific but also the most easily understandable way I have ever heard, and I feel like you are gonna walk away knowing so much more about the human body, longevity, regenerative medicine and what exactly are stem cells? Why are they so controversial? Are they maybe not ethical For the everyday person? Why should we care?

05:26 What are the benefits for stem cells in men? Do they hold any advantage for fertility, health, strength, muscle mass, libido, hair loss? For women, can it actually help fight against breast cancer? What about female fertility, health, hormone optimization, injury recovery and so much more. And if you find value in this episode, it would mean the world to me. The best thanks I could ever ask for is to just make sure that you are following the show on Apple Podcasts, spotify or your podcast platform of choice. It does wonders. It supports the show. More importantly, it helps us reach more people so that I can reach my mission to help as many people as possible live a life ever forward. Thank you, can you introduce yourself briefly to the audience to really highlight you as a professional, your expertise, medical background?

06:16 - Joy (Guest) I actually have a pretty unique background because I grew up in China. I spent my first 20 years in Beijing. That's why I wrote the memoir Tiger of Beijing. But I came to this country not knowing what I wanted to do. But when I actually shadowed this doctor OBGYN doctor I realized that medicine is incredibly exciting because you're dealing with humans, with science, with technology, so everything, all psychology, everything all in one. Um. So I went to UCLA for medical school and then actually specialized in psychiatry because I was very interested in the brain. I was fascinated with what happens when people go psychotic and and you know what is going on in that brain, Like how do we perceive the world and what makes thought go wrong.

07:11 But psychiatry is exciting, but I also think it's narrow-minded. In a sense it's not really looking at the body as a whole. Maybe the field is beginning to look at the whole body, but every specialty in medicine is very myopic looking at the body as a whole. Maybe the field is beginning to look at the whole body but, like every specialty in medicine, is very myopic. Everyone is just restricting their views on what they can learn within their own specialty, within their own conferences, and so they can't see outside the box and looking beyond. Unless you are a very special doctor that you're willing to search outside, you have to be very open-minded and it's absolutely amazing these days to see how far the other way of doing science and medicine has gone. It's gone very far, like stem cell therapy that I'm specializing in. However, there's still all. These doctors are still so limited to how they were trained that they couldn't see that this whole area of medicine is taking off. It's going to leave them behind and they have no idea.

08:13 So the moment I realized that there's a whole way of doing medicine that's holistic, that is, looking at the most current science. You're looking at something that's newly discovered, right stem cells. What can they do? What? What are the research? What are the studies showing? So all these things are not quite part part of the medical system, which emphasizes usually drugs, so it's very drug oriented.

08:40 So if you're doing something that's so different, then you're out of the system. So I basically jumped out of the system from a conventional psychiatry practice. You know there's some psychotherapy involved but a lot of drugs. So I gave a lot of psychotropics to patients. But now I realize that I can still do psychiatry in a sense, but I'm treating the body as a whole. So I actually can prevent people from getting on psychiatric medications because I'm helping their body to heal from a foundational level. Because if you don't look at all these things that's causing your mental health issues, then you're always going to be struggling because the, the, the foundation, is faulty. But if you can remove the toxicity, you address the hormone issues, you change your nutrition, you actually are moving the body and getting all your genes activated. All of a sudden your brain can function at a different level.

09:37 - Chase (Host) It's like a wild thought, but not really when we silo systems of the body. When we silo anything, yeah, you can get very focal with it and you know, really put blinders on, maybe when needed, but you are forgetting a lot of other things that directly play roles, especially in the human body. Like you, can't only ever address the pulmonary system and just think that the rest of the body is just going to stay quiet. You know when you have a problem or you present a solution, but you have to be holistic.

10:09 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, this is where the Chinese medicine kind of got a leg up ahead of us, right? They? Thousands of years ago, when people were meditating, they already saw the meridians, everything, all these energy channels connecting all these organs. That's why, when I was a kid, I remember when I got really angry and upset with my parents and I was thinking, oh, my God, my God, my liver, my liver. So I'm really angry because I know anger is connected to the liver, so that's really bad for you, and liver is connected to the eye, and so I was worried about my whole system.

10:39 - Chase (Host) So when you would get angry, I was.

10:40 - Joy (Guest) I was like nine years old I already knew. So you were not only getting frustrated, but also then worried about yeah.

10:49 - Chase (Host) I was like oh, shoot, well, I mean it probably speaks to uh, the path that you chose a few years down the road.

10:55 - Joy (Guest) That's incredible so growing up in that kind of culture, right, knowing already everything's connected, because why do this herb, that's you know, the chinese medicine doctor will look at your tongue, look, look at your pulse and then we'll come up with a diagnosis specific to you. So in Western medicine, two people let's say both people have gallbladder problems, and so Western medicine will give them the exact same diagnosis. But the Chinese medicine will base on what your constitution is and what different organ is doing and what you know just your body type and different organs and then they will come up.

11:36 You know, the same diagnosis in Western medicine can have five, six different diagnosis in Chinese medicine, because they're looking at each individual very differently. How that person got the gallbladder problem can be very different from how the other person got it. So there's the old medicine and then there's the super new medicine, and stem cell therapy is the super new. So it's interesting, the current medical system, the conventional medicine, they're resistant to both. They're like you're too old, you're too new.

12:04 - Chase (Host) Like no, we know the best yeah.

12:07 - Joy (Guest) We're familiar with what we know. So this, this is the only thing that matters. It's interesting we one of our doctors in our clinic actually drove down to San Diego to see a patient that suffered from cancer that she was a Kaiser and basically Kaiser doctors have given up, there's nothing they could do. They basically like there's absolutely nothing we can do. So in Kaiser there's a policy that if you have nothing to offer your patient, your patients and stage um, then you you need to allow any other form of therapy. So this is the only reason they actually allowed stem cell therapy to. So the family really wanted. The family were desperate. They didn cell therapy to, so the family really wanted. The family were desperate, they didn't want to lose a mother.

12:48 So yeah, that was difficult because different doctors at kaiser have different approaches and it's so funny nurses knew like which one is the good doctor like this one, actually it's open this one.

13:02 he's a good one, he's a good human. It was so a good human, it was so funny. So the nurses were telling our doctor yeah, the one that's coming up, he's a good human, like he actually really wants to help. And a lot of the other doctors they just look super stressed and kind of emotionally, like they're just ready to bicker. Oh, they're wrecked.

13:21 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, they're so exhausted. Yeah, they ready to bicker? Oh, they're wrecked. Yeah, yeah, they're so exhausted.

13:23 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, they don't want to do it, they don't want to do anything new. And they were asking oh, do you have evidence? What's the evidence of stem cell therapy for post-chemo recovery? So they're asking very specific things. What about deductive reasoning, you know, have you ever thought about deducing what the cells might do, just looking at what it has done for autoimmune conditions, for all kinds of cancer recovery, and there's a lot of research on using it to treat cancer? And what about its ability to help tissue recover, to shift the immune system to not be as inflammatory? So all these mechanisms and salvaging damaged tissue, you know, basically bring them to life and giving them new mitochondria.

14:07 Especially when you use younger tissue sources, there's fresh, new mitochondria that elevates your body's ability to recover right All your cells' energy. So if you look at how the cells work then you will say, well, this person, there's a good chance this can help this person. So eventually we actually gave the person stem cells and, what's really fascinating, my doctor's really really excited. She said, um yeah, within an hour she just perked up within one color.

14:38 Yeah, her color came back and instead of being lethargic, barely talking, she was. She was getting feisty. She was like I don't want this on my arm.

14:46 - Chase (Host) So she was getting her personality back.

14:48 - Joy (Guest) Her family was thrilled. Yeah, it was just really beautiful. So that opened eyes to these Kaiser doctors. All of a sudden everyone's like, oh huh, tell me more about the stem cells. And so now they want to learn because they're seeing firsthand that they could not do. But we're giving this simple infusion and then we're just like whispering life into this person. Right, she's perking up. Yeah. Yeah. So and I told you know our doctor, dr Gillingwater, I said you are, you are changing medicine there.

15:18 - Chase (Host) Yeah, Well, speaking of, tell me about, tell me more about these stem cells. Let's jump into here this next section. I want to just highlight stem cells first. Okay, so high level. What are stem cells? How?

15:32 - Joy (Guest) can we better understand them? I always want to take people to the very beginning of you yourself, because you were once a single stem cell. So just know that stem cell contain all the intelligence needed. Maybe it needs some light, you know, maybe you need frequencies, earth frequency, but but it contains all the intelligence that's needed to form you and this incredibly complex universe that we really. That. That's where we are. We're like a walking little universe.

16:02 So what is in that cell that has that kind of capability to know, to keep dividing and keep migrating and keep changing and forming new organs and they organize in such a precise fashion and perform these complex tasks? I don't know, it just does it. So that's intelligence. So if we're taking cell that has that kind of intelligence, so that comes back to what is the stem cell. So stem cell is a very primitive form of cells. So anything that's not a end-stage organ cell is a stem cell. So then, from the first fertilized egg to the you know, the little ball of cells, so all these are stem cells and they keep evolving. That now we have the beating heart. So once we have functional cells that are performing heart function, right, oh, now we've got real working cells, so they they're no longer stem cells, they're actually the tissue specific working cell.

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17:58 My personal favorite product the Good Serum. It's a game changer. It was their first to market. It's one that I swear by. It's such an easy, at the end of the day serum After you wash your face, put it on and for me, I noticed noticeably smoother skin, refined complexion, more even skin tone and even reduced wrinkles and fine lines. Your dad may not say he wants that, but trust me, he'll thank you for it. So this Father's Day, there's still time if you order today, because dads deserve more than drugstore aftershave. Right now, caldera Lab is offering you, my listeners, an exclusive deal. You can get 20% off your entire first purchase. Just head to calderalabcom, that's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-Bcom, and use code ever forward at checkout for 20% off. Every cell starts off first as a stem cell, but then, as it turns into a heart, a brain, a liver, whatever skin, it stops becoming a stem cell.

18:59 - Joy (Guest) Exactly so. So let's say your heart, it has a heart muscle progenitor cell. So that's the last bit of the stem cell. Because going from the very beginning, the first fertilized egg, you keep evolving, evolving. Every time you gain function you lose potential. You can never have both, or the embryonic stem cells, or you're full of capabilities and specialization and you lose ability to become everything Gotcha. So you can't have both. So as you start to evolve, the cells start to go down the pathway of where they're going. They gradually lose capabilities and potentials. Oh no, they lose potentials but they gain more capabilities. So at the very end, the heart muscle stem cell, the only thing they can become is a heart muscle cell. So just going from the, the heart muscle stem cell to the heart muscle cell, that is also a journey, because sometimes our body is so inflamed and stagnant that heart muscle cell doesn't know to devolve, to evolve into a heart muscle so what happens?

20:08 yeah, the muscle stem cells. Then you're not repairing right, it's damaged and it's not fixed. Then you have a lesion and then the rest of the, the heart, is sort of working but it's not regenerating but.

20:19 If you're giving it the signals to tell those muscle stem cells to start to come alive. Hey, your job is to become a muscle cell. Don't stay a stem cell. Do what you're designed to do. Now they can come alive and they can form new tissue. Now the heart is becoming repaired. This is the whole point of regenerative medicine. Your body is regenerating itself and we are capable of that. And that's the exciting part of you know this new way of doing medicine. You don't just go there and throw drugs and to try to combat the body. You know, combat different processes. You're actually coaxing the body. Hey, you can do this.

20:59 - Chase (Host) Make better, you know better version yeah, it's like you're right there. Come on like. Come on, little guy come on, come on.

21:04 I've never this is beautiful I've never heard this interpretation or description of stem cells. I think it's so eloquently put that you know, we all have this innate intelligence and this innate potential in us. It's just, for whatever reason, it gets blocked, it gets cut off. So it's not like we're trying to ask the body to do anything other than what it was meant to do, what each cell literally was meant to do. We're just trying to go to the place where it's stopped for whatever reason, and then stimulate it to go back to its course of action.

21:40 - Joy (Guest) Right, yeah, exactly, and the way I visualize it, I tell people it's like, um, if you look at the person that's really sick and diseased and stuck in in illness, in chronic illness. It's almost like when you look at a TV screen um, the the body is like that screen. That's kind of broken, you can't quite tell, everything's pixelated, you can't tell what the message is. It's really hard to decipher, um, but when you put stem cells into the body, it's almost like it's like turning your screen into a high def screen. It's giving you all the clear messages, clear signals.

22:17 This is what you need to do. This is so that those messages were lost, either from cell gradual dysfunction or raging inflammation or, you know, parasitic infections, all the things that are blocking your, your, your signaling pathways in the body. All of a sudden, it's given clear picture of the blueprint. This is what you do. Hey, you wake up. You know you're this immune cell and your job is to go to this site and and take away the degree right. All of a sudden, high def. Now you can carry out your job and you can, you can start to make that's so.

22:51 - Chase (Host) I mean the body is so incredible. It's just given the right environment and the right uh expectations. Man, it's incredible what it can become or what it can regenerate despite injury, illness, whatever.

23:06 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, despite the ravages that we allow ourselves to suffer through in this modern day, even you know, it's amazing that we are the way we still are, with how much toxins that we are bombarded with.

23:19 - Chase (Host) Ain't that the truth?

23:20 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, so your body's fighting pretty hard, but if you can give it more tools so that it can get the fresh signals, just think of your when you, you, just you had a baby right so between you and your wife, the baby? You know you and your wife are a certain age. Right, you're an adult, adults, but your baby's fresh new, it's like mint you know like fresh freshly minted, that's right you know it's this, and so what happened? There's a reset.

23:48 There's a biological reset process. All of a sudden, his dna is pristine, as pristine as possible, his mitochondria are pristine, so he can start fresh as the new generation. And what's happening there? And when we use umbilical cord derived stem cells, we're borrowing some of that reset. Because when we the fertilized egg, right, that's this the start of your, of your son, right of your, your son, um, and it starts to develop and eventually it's gonna, you know, form little fetus with a little umbilical cord. Yeah.

24:26 So that cord. There were a lot of cells that were trapped in that cord and the baby keeps developing. But a lot of the cells in that cord stay the same, stay very similar to how it was when it was trapped. So the characteristic of the cells in that umbilical cord is actually in between the embryonic stem cell and the baby's stem cell. So when I use umbilical cord derived stem cells, I'm giving you cells that are much younger than the baby's cell and it makes me wish I would have kept his uh umbilical cord.

24:55 Oh, it's okay, it's okay you know, science is evolving, um, and you can, we have, you can use other people's and you can use other people's cells to help, whatever condition, if there's a concern at all. Because what we're trying to use is the signaling capabilities of these cells, so another person's cells, because these are fairly blank cells. That's why we can give tissue transplant in between different people, especially when we use mesenchymal stem cells, because these are very immune, modulating, they're kind of immune evasive they're not seen as like a foreign threat yeah, so they're not seen as a foreign entity.

25:38 They're so young and they're also modulating your immune system so it prevents attack. Actually, these mesenchymal stem cells can be given along with organ transplantations and that could prevent these people's body from rejecting the organ or preventing the organ cell to attack the host. So there's this calming effect on the immune system. But what you're counting on these cells function is that they will go in, give you the signal so your body, your own cells are awakened and they will make new tissue for you. Not that we have to give you cells from you, you know, identical to you, to make new tissue. It's not the case. That's a common misconception that people think that oh, yeah, I have to.

26:26 I have to use my own in order for the cells to stay in my body, because I need to make these new tissue. Otherwise, how can they stay? They're going to be rejected. Well, the truth is, majority of the cells that we give to people, by the time they recover and we look for those cells, they're not in the body. The people still would recover. Where are those cells? They died, they did their work and they died. So majority of them will go away, just like any cells. When you bring them to life right, you extract them and you put them in the body. There's a finite lifespan. So they will do some work for you and they will die. But it's really we're counting on their signaling capabilities. So, uh, between between humans, the, the cells that are, even though they're not the same as you, but if you use very, very young cells, they have better ability to adapt. So it's very interesting the bone marrow transplant between adults.

27:23 You, you try to match as much as you can. So a perfectly matched would be good. But guess what? Even perfectly matched bone marrow transplants have a chance of rejection, because there's no two people that you can perfectly match, right, we're all a little different. Maybe you have some HLA markers that can cause major problems, that you can make sure that they are not conflicting they're the same. But what about the hundreds and thousands of other markers on the cell? Right, you can control everything. However, if you give somebody who needs a bone marrow transplant, but you give that person umbilical cord blood transfusion and cord blood, its composition is very similar to the bone marrow. It's all the same same system. The blood is flowing through the you know the bone and and so it's the same system. So if you give them a completely unmatched core blood transplantation so we can replenish this person's immune system, right, there's less chance of rejection than perfectly matched adult transplant. Yeah, so this just shows you, when you're younger, you're more ready to adapt. Yeah.

28:29 The cells do the same thing.

28:35 - Chase (Host) Wow. Okay, you're beginning to get into some areas that I definitely want to get into in a little bit, but I want to bring it back to just start off first with introducing stem cells and why should this really matter to the quote everyday person Like why should we care? I'm not a professional athlete or, you know, an extreme biohacker, but you know I am someone that is interested in feeling well for as long as possible and having quality lifespan and health span. Why should I care about stem cells?

29:06 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, so okay, everybody wants to live well and live a long time. Maybe it possible at least live really a healthy and happy life if, if they're alive. So some people don't care to live longer, it's just want to live well. So that's one population. The other population is the people who are sick and we never know who are going to get sick Right, and the rate of aging age is the biggest predictor of disease. So they're intertwined your decline even though you think you're healthy, but there's a decline process. So even if you say, oh, I'm just aging, well, that's kind of the precursor of disease, so you are on your way to disease. Really, that's just hand in hand.

29:51 - Chase (Host) So there's no stopping that we're all getting older all the time. You can't stop aging.

29:56 - Joy (Guest) Right.

29:57 - Chase (Host) Or can you yet?

29:58 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, right. So, um, yeah, there's some very, very exciting things going on Right Um. I think it's possible, very exciting things going on right. I think it's possible. It's definitely within the realm of possibility. That would be a very strange time.

30:13 - Chase (Host) To stop aging or just slow it down?

30:15 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, I think it's very possible. I think it's very possible to I think at one point in human existence that we can stop aging. So if we're all going to live, you know, as whatever 25 year olds, and we're all going to just keep existing unless you run into an accident, I guess it's very possible. But we're not there yet. But we are getting closer than ever in history. Because, let's say, just stem cells for longevity purposes Animal studies have consistently shown that if you give an animal regular IV infusions, these are middle-aged animals. They extend their lifespan by about 30%. That's pretty standard.

30:58 - Chase (Host) This is a one-off administration, or like a regular interval.

31:03 - Joy (Guest) So I think about two weeks or four every four weeks, something like that. Um, because rats and mice, they only live for about 20 months in general yeah, so, um, one study was, I think they started them.

31:17 Um, well, one was younger, they were middle age, like 10 months old. Another one was older, they were 15 months old. 15 months old is equivalent, human equivalent age of about 75 years of age. So, um, in the middle-aged rats and mice, you know, there are multiple studies it has shown that it's pretty consistent that these animals lived about 30 percent longer, not just live longer, they actually are staying in the younger state longer.

31:44 So they're, they look great, they they're walking and running around great and their cognition was really good, you know, as if they were young rats, so like their biological functions were preserved. Um, so they have a longer healthy lifespan. And then, for rats who were old, where half their peers have died, and for rats who were old, where half their peers have died, when they started giving them regular stem cells from younger rats, the time remaining on earth, you know, from 15 months until they die, were three times as long as the ones that did not receive stem cells. Wow, and not only longer, but again, they look better, right, their fur is shinier and their spine is straighter and they just they look like they're in really, really good condition.

32:31 - Chase (Host) So this is great for rodents, but what about humans? Are we saying, or are we seeing direct carryover? Well, that's going to be a very long study, right?

32:45 - Joy (Guest) So I volunteered to be one of the study subjects because I've been doing regular IV stem cells on myself every three months for the last eight years and there are some people like that. So not um, I've you know I have some patients who are doing it um, every uh, if somebody wants to do every two months, um, there most people are doing it every three to six months. So regular IV infusion, infusion, you know it'd be interesting to see what happens. But definitely the people I've met who have done regular iv treatments in the last seven, eight years there are not many of us, but they all look 10 years younger. So, but human, that's going to be a long study, right as far as studying lifespan. But know, you know a lot of the science. It takes deduction. We're really not that different from from animals. In a lot of ways Our genetic material are very similar, um.

33:35 So when they looked at mice and when they were given stem cells and I guess one thing that's easier to do in animals is that you actually can sacrifice the animal you know that's a whole other subject. I don't really like that, but still there are studies done and they give animals, mice, young stem cells and then they looked at their neurotransmitter level, their growth factors, their toxic waste, their biomarkers for aging. Everything was reversed to the younger state. So the levels of the younger state. So, on a biological analytical level that you can see by the number, that everything was back to younger state. So the cells, the, the, you know, animals, are younger. So then, you are bringing back your state and this is a fun fact. So your, your wife, is going to like this, because they found out women who have been pregnant compared to their peers that have not been pregnant, right so pregnant, given birth. Their biological age was four years younger than the women, the counterpart that did not get pregnant.

34:46 - Chase (Host) Really, I think general public thought would go oh no, if you have a kid like, it's less because of stress and worry.

34:53 - Joy (Guest) I don't know they sapped the life force out of you, but isn't that fascinating.

35:02 - Chase (Host) Hey friends, quick break from my conversation with joy. I know we're talking about a lot of different areas of our health, but I got to shine a light on gut health because, if you're like me, you've had some of those moments. Right, you're eating a big meal, you're feeling great, and then all of a sudden, seemingly out of nowhere, you're, you're sluggish, you're bloated and wondering am I going to have some disaster pants coming on? Why do my pants suddenly hate me? I'm just so uncomfortable. But I'm eating the foods that I love. Well, maybe the foods you love don't love you back. So then I thought, okay, maybe I need a detox, maybe I need to cut out some of these quote fun foods.

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39:49 - Joy (Guest) And I believe just like you said right, there's this stress was tough on the body. I think there's this constant stem cell infusion with the baby because we know there's DNA exchange between mother and kids.

40:02 - Chase (Host) Oh, yeah, of course, yeah.

40:03 - Joy (Guest) Because they found out that 60% of women actually have Y chromosomes in their body. So this is a widespread phenomenon. If people think that I'm so pure, oh my God, I don't want other people's DNA, I'm sorry. You already have, very likely, so the men probably the same thing. But the study is very easy when you're looking at women and checking Y chromosomes right. So because women shouldn't have Y chromosomes? So if 60% of the women have Y chromosomes, they could not account for that high percentage by pregnancy of male child or miscarriages that we didn't know about, or a male sibling that we didn't know about, or a male sibling that we didn't know about. So they were looking at all these possibilities. So eventually their conclusion was that through male-female intercourse there's DNA exchange. So there's always DNA exchange between humans. But back to the mother and child, I believe the mothers were getting these stem cell infusions basically from the baby. So they are reversing their age, they're getting stem cell therapy, yeah, Wow.

41:09 - Chase (Host) So here's the hack If you want stem cell therapy, get pregnant. That's a very loose interpretation, but I mean, yeah, it makes sense. I mean the umbilical cord, it's not just a one-way valve of nutrients, right?

41:22 - Joy (Guest) I think that's what we're saying here, exactly, exactly, wow, jeez, okay.

41:26 - Chase (Host) Well, actually speaking of, I want to kind of divide and conquer here a little bit with male and female uh, to the lens of stem cell benefits. Stem cells in men what advantage do they hold for fertility health?

41:39 - Joy (Guest) Um, you know, I haven't seen a lot of evidence when it comes to fertility. Definitely you're improving a person's um, you know, vitality and even sex drive. Um, so as specifically for fertility, it's hard to say. I have seen one study on female, but it's not on humans, it's on animals. But it's a pretty powerful study because they were looking at perimenopausal rats. So these rats were, you know, about, to lose their fertility and then they started giving them stem cells and they were looking at their ovary size, their the number of follicles they have and eventually, the number of pregnancies they have.

42:21 And of course, they check their estrogen, progesterone, fsh, lh. Everything was restored to the younger state. So they got increased hormones, they got increased number of follicles, their oversized was was bigger and they had more pregnancies. So so that's an indirect is an animal showing that. I don't know if I've seen human studies, although I have anecdotal patients who have, yeah, at least one doctor. She tried, I think, for four years to become pregnant and she always ended up in miscarriage. And then she did a stem cell infusion with me and within two months she said I'm pregnant and now she's already caring.

43:03 I think her child probably is over a year old now.

43:05 - Chase (Host) Yeah, so it makes sense. I mean, when we think about, you know, some cells aside, a lot of things in medicine, I mean hell, even sometimes a supplement or like a lifestyle change, we can't really say there's a direct causation, but because of the influence it has on energy, vitality, mood, probably even strength, endurance, things like that, it has like this cascade effect that does increase things like fertility health yeah or a lot of other areas that you're trying to directly influence right, well, yeah, also, we haven't studied it, so if very possible, it could be helpful or I guess even like have you seen anything?

43:42 we're talking male fertility health here. Does stem cell therapy directly influence sperm count motility? You know all of the things. When we think male fertility, is there any direct?

43:54 - Joy (Guest) science there that you're aware of? That would be very interesting. You know I haven't seen any doesn't mean they don't exist, but yeah, I think last I looked I haven't seen any human studies.

44:06 - Chase (Host) You also mentioned, like libido, you know, sexual health, excuse me, fertility health, libido, sexual health kind of go all hand in hand. What about stem cell therapy for men and libido?

44:17 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, I don't know about men per se, but the one reason I wanted to take stem cells for myself was because I met this girl. She had rheumatoid arthritis. This is the first person that I've known that received stem cell treatment. Not only the stem cells got her to cut back on her medication for rheumatoid arthritis and her swelling her fingers went down so much that she was able to wear the ring that her mother gave her but she also. She said, my energy level is through the roof and I have such high sex drive. And that's when I was okay well, there we go.

44:52 - Chase (Host) That sounds fantastic. Correlation maybe not direct causation vitality yeah exactly.

44:56 - Joy (Guest) So then I thought well, I want that vitality yeah, um, what about for hair loss?

45:02 - Chase (Host) You're actually sharing some pretty wild before and after pictures of things we're seeing stem cell use for hair loss. I know a lot of guys worry about that. I think it's more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's more top of mind for most guys, especially as they get into like late twenties and thirties of hair loss receding hairline. Can stem cells do anything for that?

45:22 - Joy (Guest) yeah, so of course there are different causes of hair loss if something that's more immune system regulated, like autoimmune origin, or infections. Because I've treated this one doctor. She was losing a lot of hair, she was, you know, really freaking out, and then then she, um, she got stem cell infusions. She said, when she was in the military traveling in Southeast Asia, she got infected by some kind of parasite and that caused immune problems, immune dysregulation, so, and so she was having this whatever kind of flare up, she was losing a lot of hair. So she did a stem cell infusion and then, very quickly, her hair. She said she's got all this new hair coming out and she barely is losing any hair. Wow, so so that's the autoimmune portion and that I think iv can be very powerful, but we can do a lot of things topically. So a lot of times the follicle just not, you know, it's like the signal is not there, they're just they're lost. I'm sitting there not really growing hair for you, I'm just doing nothing, but I am here.

46:28 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I just need a little motivation.

46:30 - Joy (Guest) If you're there because if you're not there anymore then we can't do it very much. Right, then do hair transplant. So if somebody's completely bald and shiny, then you know that's stem cells may not be the right yes, so let's look at hair transplant. But even with hair transplant, you may want to consider stem cell infusion or even local stem cells, because that's going to help the survival of your transplant. So any surgery, anything you do, if you add stem cells to it, yeah, you're going to amplify the results.

47:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, but uh, we can do a lot with local treatments with stem cell or exosome injections and doing a little bit of microneedling um, it can, it can get some great results yeah, when you get into application dosing even you know things like cost I know that are a lot top of mind for a lot of people but anything else in terms of men's health that you would really like to shine a light on, that you think, or have even seen in your own clinic, or you know in clinical evidence, that stem cell therapy directly influences or makes better for men.

47:35 - Joy (Guest) For men. Well, you know, I don't think it's exactly what you're asking about, but one thing came to my mind was this patient who was about to lose his last testicle because he had. It's important for guys, yeah he had repeated infections in one testicle I think he's um, he's 50s and repeated swelling and just you know it was terrible, if you can imagine right so he's urologist uh, cut it off. He said well, that's the solution, I will cut that testicle off. So so he lost a testicle right so.

48:07 So he was okay. You know, that problem was gone for for a couple years until the second testicle start to have the same problem swelling pain and then that's when he wanted to come to me. He said well, doctor, can this help my testicle? I said well, apparently there's no research about your particular issue, so it's very hard for me to say. However, I know how the cells work. Right, deductive reasoning, right there we go.

48:31 - Chase (Host) You want to use your brain to deduce what could happen critical thinking.

48:35 - Joy (Guest) What a wild thought exactly so I know the cells are anti-inflammatory calm the inflammation that's in the area. I know the cells are anti-inflammatory, calm the inflammation that's in the area. I know the cells are remodulating, can help the immune system to help you repair and remove the damages and to promote regeneration. And I know the cells have direct antimicrobial properties because they can secrete antimicrobial peptides.

48:57 - Chase (Host) Which is important for him, because you said it was an infection issue, right?

48:59 - Joy (Guest) Yes, he was getting repeated infection, him, because you said it was an infection issue, right, yes, he was getting repeated infection. And and then, um, stem cells had anti-fibrotic properties because he was having these fibrotic nodules, like a little, I guess, marble size nodules, multiple nodules in the testicle. So we know stem cells are anti-fibrotic, so it can break down scar tissue and um, and it can rescue damaged tissue and promote regeneration. You know forming new, healthy tissue. So we know this is how the cells work. That's been proven over and over and over by science. So is there a chance? Yes, there's a chance, so, but I can't promise you anything. So let's try it. And incredible results all the nodules went away within a couple months, all the swelling went away. He said you saved my testicle, yeah, so is it related?

49:45 Yeah, this is related to men's health, but it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, yeah, stem cells can help the overall vitality. You know, your body, I've heard people even helping with body composition. You know, helping with their metabolism, with weight loss, etc. So, yeah, there's. I remember one person, he with several people. They, after stem cells, they gained energy back so that they could actually work out, work or to the degree that they want to. All of a sudden, they're shedding all these this excess fat and gain all these muscles, so I'm sure that will be enhancing their testosterone levels and there's going to be yeah, I'm just going to say a lot of guys are probably perking up, interested in, uh, you know, testosterone boosting for motivation for strength for endurance.

50:38 - Chase (Host) For getting all back to this stuff, the through line here I keep hearing is that, uh, it's not like directly causing a change or manifestation physiologically, but it's just allowing that area I think probably better, because enhancing your vitality and the side effect is that your male health is going to be improved.

51:02 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, yeah.

51:03 - Chase (Host) So I want to ask some similar questions around female health. But I'm kind of hearing this sense that stem cells it doesn't really matter or there's not like a hard line in the sand of clearer benefits for men's health in particular, clearer benefits for female health in particular. It's kind of just human health.

51:20 - Joy (Guest) Well, you know, we're very analogous right the male sexual organ. The female sexual organ look very similar when you actually look at their, the real tissue that's buried.

51:31 - Chase (Host) Homologous, even I think, is another word, yeah so they're just, yeah, very, very similar.

51:37 - Joy (Guest) So even on the outside we different. But so when we do, we actually do sexual wellness injections. We can inject into the female genital areas, inject into the similar tissue as the, you know, the male, the.

51:56 - Chase (Host) So you would inject into male genitalia and female genitalia as like a local treatment for symptoms.

52:01 - Joy (Guest) So like the male penis shaft, the cavernosum, we can inject directly into the shaft, into the erectile tissue. The female, we are injecting into similar organs, right, homologous organs, and that's underneath the labia minora, so we can inject there and then we can inject into the clitoris or the male, the head of the penis. So they're very analogous, the same volume cell cells. So we're treating the two very similarly.

52:28 - Chase (Host) Okay, yeah, so now walk us through then. What is the purpose or the reason behind injecting locally or you're treating locally with stem cells I mean hyperlocally, and we're talking genitalia maybe some people might think of like a shoulder injury or something like that, versus like an iv drip I heard you talk about what's the difference between, just like the way you want to think about it is that when I give something to you through your veins, I can give you, you know this, let's say, 10 million cells.

52:55 - Joy (Guest) You know a bunch of cells, whatever 100 million, and but they will. They're going to be dispersed because they go back to your heart, get pumped you into your lungs. If your lungs have a lot of pathology, a lot of them are going to be attracted and stay there. If your lungs are fine, a lot of them will come back to your heart and then they will go all over your body. If you have an injury here, another inflammation there, another tear there, all of a sudden the fighting forces are divided.

53:20 - Chase (Host) They're getting diluted Exactly. They all might get to these areas of need, but it's going to be in less quantities, less concentration.

53:26 - Joy (Guest) This is why it's unfortunate so many doctors are giving everybody the same dose. No, there's a dosing. You have to look at the person, what you're treating. If the person is big or is older, older, so the person's much more depleted. And if the person is very inflamed, he's got problems everywhere. You know, whatever cells you put in the body is going to be diverted into all these places, so each place will have less forces to help you fight the battle sure yeah so, but either way is going to be dispersed throughout your body and interacting.

54:04 One beautiful thing about IV treatment is that it interacts with your immune system, because the first organs that it perfuses the cells are, you know, most prevalent in, is the heart, the lungs, the liver and the spleen, and the spleen is the largest immune organ in the body. So it's talking to your spleen, talking to all your peripheral lymphoid system. So that is waking up your immune system to help you. So nothing can replace that. So I can give you local injections all day long, but if I don't allow the cells to talk to the immune system, your response is not going to be as powerful okay, yeah.

54:41 - Chase (Host) So if we want, let's say, literal bang for our buck in terms of cost but also efficacy, should we go with a drip? Should we go with a local application, or is there a combination of both that really is going to maximize stem cell therapy benefits?

55:00 - Joy (Guest) Depending on your age and on what happened. So, on what we're trying to to treat right if you're talking about just a joint injury, uh, or joint a chronic issue, let's say I tore my acl on college.

55:15 So if you tore something, um, but if it had become a long lingering problem, we have to you ask the question why? Why aren't you repairing it? Because your body is fully capable of repairing. So what's preventing it? So, is it aging process that your body doesn't have enough reserves? Is it that your body is toxic? Is it because you know you don't have enough nutrients to help it repair? There's so many factors. However, we can accelerate repair by injecting locally. We're going to make sure that there's a lot of signals in that one area. But if the problem is long-term, is chronic, then likely your body has a poor response.

56:00 So there's a decline in your ability to repair. So I call it the. You know the decline in regenerative potential. So your potential is less. By us giving your stem cells especially IV, we're elevating your whole body's regenerative potential and now you can try to fix all these other places. Because I have had people with local knee problems. Where I was trying to save him money, I said well, you know we're doing iv for your brain and you're already spending a lot of money. So I know you have knee pain. You want me to inject your knee, but there's a chance that your knee can be helped by just the iv treatment. So why don't we wait and see? So, lo and behold, some six weeks later he's like doc, you know, my knee is fixed, I'm good. What?

56:44 - Chase (Host) was the issue with the knee that got fixed some kind of osteoarthritis, okay, yeah.

56:48 - Joy (Guest) So when it comes to osteoarthritis, if you're younger, in well. First of all, nobody should be having osteoarthritis because this is a chronic inflammatory condition. So if you just tore something, that's acute injury. That's one thing. So if you're a younger person and you just in damage something, I'm totally fine with focusing on the local area. But if the local damage was the inciting factor in triggering a long-term issue, then here we have a problem. Why has this become long-term? Because your body should have fixed it, so then your body's not keeping up. So why don't we boost your body? And also, when we look at bigger joints versus smaller one, that's there's a difference as well, because something like your finger or you know some some other smaller joints are much more well-perfused by blood, so there's better blood circulation. Whatever I give you in the blood is going to get to that little joint. You know pretty well. So I never need to inject your finger. You know the the joint in your finger. I mean, it's extremely painful and unnecessary.

57:48 I can give you iv and then it should you know it should get to your hand if, especially with our supplement, we make sure a person has good perfusion and then, uh, we may even add some ultrasound, some very simple ultrasound, that will agitate the area. So it will give the area a little bit of micro damage, which is really a tiny little jolt to the cells.

58:12 - Chase (Host) It's causing, like a mild acute inflammation, to draw in that inflammatory response Very mild but then it activates a lot of mechanisms.

58:19 - Joy (Guest) So you can do that. I've successfully done various tough locations because I don't want to inject into certain locations. But if you use ultrasound you can attract more cells and activate the cells more. So yeah, they're different tricks but for larger joints like the knee, the exchange of material between the blood and the synovial fluid that's in your knee capsule, the exchange is very slow. It takes about a couple months for anything I put in the blood to really equilibrate A couple months really. Yes, to equilibrate with your joint, you know, with the synovial fluid.

58:56 - Chase (Host) Why is that? Is that just because it has a lot of other, more important places to get to first? Yeah, it's very short. It has a lot of other, more important places to get to first.

59:00 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, it's very short, just the way the blood. You know it's, it's nourishing, it's nourishing the cartilage, but it doesn't really go directly into the fluid, so there's a very slow process.

59:10 - Chase (Host) What about something like the femur? What are, like you know, arthritis, osteoarthritis Same thing.

59:14 - Joy (Guest) Yeah that. So the shoulder, the hip and the knees are the large joints in the body. Those I would do direct injections because it's going to take forever for whatever I put in the blood to actually get there. But the knee I was able to help because he was, I think, in his early 50s and I was just hoping that may be enough, because the blood does nourish the outer one third of the cartilage in larger joints, but the synovial fluid actually nourished the inner two thirds. So so there there's a division. So I can, I can touch upon the cartilage, but not the whole, not everything. So if I want to accelerate healing and maximize the healing, then I want to put some right there and we, we do a combination, not just the cells but also some extracellular matrix that also the knee, uh, the joints, need to repair.

01:00:10 - Chase (Host) You need all those collagen, different types of collagens okay, the matrix, can you kind of walk us through? You know, is there a set protocol or timeline for really maximize, really to get any benefit of, um, stem cell therapy? Here Is it. You know I can if I got an injury or I'm just looking for longevity. I guess you know it might be case dependent or goal dependent here, um, but can I get a round or do I need to get multiple rounds? What really should we? What's a fair expectation for stem cell therapy to get results?

01:00:42 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, um, they're double Okay. So if you're just looking at um, how often a person should get stem cell therapy? If we are looking at somebody that has an acute issue, so let's say you just hurt your elbow and then we injected. You know, in that area of targeting the, the repair, it could be just one treatment. You're done, great, fixed, and we've seen that over and over because it was a, an injury, a specific injury not even even acute herniated disc.

01:01:12 We've seen incredible results one treatment done, straightened up, wow, functional, from barely able to walk yes, so it can happen that fast. It's acute issue. Chronic may take longer. The chronic, you know. The people always say, yeah, it takes you this long to get sick. It may take you know, long to repair.

01:01:32 So the body does have a rhythm of its own and this is why I don't agree with you know that this is a whole subject about what people are doing overseas and I know Dr Joe Rogan has become the guiding light. I didn't think about that for a second. The show and the show have, you know, guests that have their own biases. So you know I've been in space for eight years, I've looking, I've looked at everybody's treatments and you know all these different approaches. My goal is always what can I do that's the best for the patient? What can I do that produces the best results and is the safest for people?

01:02:16 So overseas people are giving treatments in the hundreds of millions of cells. If you are using hundreds of millions of cells that have been extracted directly from the umbilical cord, great Good for you. That's going to be astronomically expensive to have that many cells, which may not be necessary, by the way, but that's fantastic. But at a certain point you're going to hit a point of no further return. So it may be a lot of cells, but you're not getting further gain. So we are using cells in a number of, you know, low tens. You know like what we're using? Between a few a few million cells to maybe 20 million cells. So that's the range we're using, but we're getting phenomenal results. Why? Because we're using unexpanded. That means kind of unadulterated cells extracted from the umbilical cord. They have never been grown in a tissue culture. So when you put them in a culture, in an artificial environment, and let them just multiply and multiply outside the human body, they're in an environment that's stressful because that's very different from the human body, right?

01:03:23 yeah, so they can start to secrete yeah, exactly, they can start to secrete inflammatory molecules. And it's also proven in, you know, numerous publications that the cells start to change in their genetic expression. So they they change in how they divide. They no longer become identical copies of themselves, they start to produce daughter cells that are different.

01:03:49 So they, yeah, so they. One characteristic of stem cells is that, yes, they are capable of identical division, but most of the time they do asymmetrical division. What they do is that they divide. One of them will be identical to itself, but the other one will be just a little different, a little more developed. That's how the cells replenish the tissue but retain a copy of the self right, and what's the timeline of that?

01:04:19 - Chase (Host) How fast is this happening?

01:04:20 - Joy (Guest) Oh, I don't know, it can be pretty fast.

01:04:23 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I don't know how fast, but the cells can it's always happening kind of instantaneously if a stem cell is there. Well, a lot of times stem cells can be hibernating.

01:04:31 - Joy (Guest) So if they are triggered, if it's important for them to divide, then they would divide. So they are triggering these cells. They're sending, giving cell signals right in the tissue culture to make them divide artificially. Okay. And the cells have a tendency to divide in that fashion, asymmetrical fashion.

01:04:51 So if you start to divide into one copy that's the same as yourself, that doesn't have all these surface markers, doesn't trigger rejections, but then the other copy is just a little more expressed, which means there's more protein, there's's more function, there's just a little bit more capabilities. So you lose potential and gain capability. Right, there's only these two of two aspects. And then so now you have one cell that divided into these two cells one is identical, one is the daughter cell so that the one identical cell can divide again into identical self and a daughter cell and that daughter cell, so that the one identical cell can divide again into identical self and a daughter cell. And that daughter cell cannot go back, right, it goes forward, so it will further divide.

01:05:28 Now you've got a soup of mostly further differentiated cells. So it sounds great, it sounds like you're giving people a lot of cells. But is that necessarily the best for the patient, because if you don't divide it that many times, the negative effect is not as significant. But unfortunately, a lot of these clinics they're using cells that have been multiplied a lot, many generations, so they have a lot of you know, they have a lot of cells that they can divide A clone of a clone of a clone of a clone, kind of thing, right, so imagine.

01:06:04 - Chase (Host) Copy of a copy of a copy.

01:06:05 - Joy (Guest) Let's say you spent $10,000 getting the original you know tissue and then if you had just made cells from that, that's all you have, right, that's all you can only treat. Let's say you give to 10 people, that's it, that's your cost. But if treat, let's say you, you give to 10 people, that's it, that's your cost. But if you can grow them to 100 times that, and now you can give people a lot more. But you, you can, you know you. You can treat 50 people all of a sudden.

01:06:33 now your cost has drastically declined, so there's a lot more profit margin. But the problem is that people are having more side effects and I can show you research studies showing that a higher number of cells, when they're expanded, they actually end up producing lower benefit. It's not like, oh, it's a higher, it's no further benefit, you actually have less benefit.

01:06:56 - Chase (Host) So you do hit points of diminishing returns.

01:06:58 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, not only diminishing returns Negative returns.

01:07:00 Actually, yes, yeah, not only diminished returns, but you actually yes. That's why I'm a stickler about wanting to give people cells that have not been manipulated, because you have way less side effects and you're actually preserving the potency. Can you walk us through? You mentioned side effects. Can you walk us through what are side effects, potential side effects of stem cell therapy and what like what really could go wrong? Or should we be afraid of stem cell therapy and what like what really could go wrong? Or should we be afraid of stem cell therapy? Uh, no, um. Well, you need to be afraid of companies that are that don't have integrity, right? For example, we had that big incident with livion some, I think five years ago or so, that they had a contaminated batch, so somebody did not do things correctly in the processing contaminated with e coli oh, so I think about 26 people were hospitalized.

01:07:50 I can't remember if I think maybe a couple people died. I've I've heard so many numbers about this incident, but but a significant number of people were hospitalized um very, very sick.

01:08:01 So what happened was that that they were apparently they. They lied about having done sterility testing because after you process, first of all you, you, once you get the tissue donation, you're supposed to test for any pathogens, any infectious diseases, just like how you would test for organ transplantation, like a liver transplant. You test that tissue for all these infectious diseases, and the same thing is true for blochal cord cells. So it's processed by a tissue bank, so you're supposed to test for those before and then you process it. After you finish processing it, you're supposed to send it to a sterility lab and then it takes two weeks for the result to get back because they're going to try to grow your product to see if any bacteria exhaustive, lengthy process here which is a good thing.

01:08:49 - Chase (Host) You want this, right, yeah exactly.

01:08:51 - Joy (Guest) So you're not supposed to give it to doctors, to give to patients before your sterility test is cleared. But but these people lied about having done sterility tests when they didn't, and then they give it to doctors. And then all these people lied about having done serility tests when they didn't and then they give it to doctors, and then all these people got severely harmed.

01:09:08 - Chase (Host) So, besides contamination, what other side effects are we talking?

01:09:10 - Joy (Guest) about. But that's like you going to a restaurant. You know is spinach dangerous.

01:09:14 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you can get E coli at Chipotle, which happens a lot actually.

01:09:17 - Joy (Guest) So is spinach dangerous? Well, if you eat it at a restaurant that did not process, you know, some cook do not wash their hands yeah, it can be dangerous. So, but you can't say spinach is a dangerous, you know that. So. So it's the same same kind of philosophy. It's actually saying surgery. You know, somebody got a uh, you know, let's say, a knee replacement surgery, and someone died or someone had terrible, you know results. You going to ban knee surgery Just because some doctor maybe didn't do a good job and had contamination? So it's the same thing. So the product depends on whether or not the company has integrity and are doing all the right things, and also the results depends on the provider. If the provider put it in the wrong place for example, they did inject into someone's penis with something with lots of tissue in it it could clog a little artery and cause necrosis. Oh, no Right.

01:10:15 - Chase (Host) We're talking too much damage to male genitalia today. You're the one that we're removing testicles and necropic tissue in the penis. Oh no, that's pretty bad. Yes, okay, any other place.

01:10:31 - Joy (Guest) So potential side effects If you don't put the right thing in the right place. Yes, so that is the art of medicine.

01:10:38 - Chase (Host) It's a fair statement of anything in medicine Absolutely, exactly, exactly.

01:10:41 - Joy (Guest) But definitely even for something simple as IV, if you don't get the right product. Yes, it could be contaminated If you inject the product that's not appropriate. For example, a product that has a lot of tissue particles and you want to put an IV, boom, somebody got you know, embolism Right, so that can happen. Embolism right, so that can happen. Um, or you get these expanded product, the product or product that doesn't have a lot of mesenchymal stem cells, which is very calming for the immune system. So immune system doesn't go into this overdrive to reject. But if you are giving only hematopoietic progenitor cells, which is more prevalent in the core blood and they also have a lot of mononuclear cells, but the bottom line is that they don't have a lot of mesenchymal stem cells, so there's a much higher chance that they will have fever, chills, some maybe headaches, sniffling and malaise.

01:11:36 - Chase (Host) Are these common side effects of stem cell therapy?

01:11:38 - Joy (Guest) Well, if you use umbilical cord stem cells, the prevalence of that was fairly minor, so it's self-limiting. Maybe within three days people will be fine, but however, they tend to get these effects. I don't have the precise number, but I remember when I first started in the space, I did use umbilical cord blood cells and we were telling people yeah, close to a third. So a lot of people you know, experiencing headache getting some, some kind of side effects.

01:12:13 But if you have umbilical cord and mesenchymal stem cells, that's going to calm that down. Or if you just use a mesenchymal stem cells, you're going to have way less. But we can't predict. You know, we, we're not going to cover a hundred percent of people. Sometimes people have strange reactions to all kinds of things, but uh, the the, the mesenchymal stem cells from the umbilical cord, if it's unexpanded, the side effect is so minimal that it's yeah, it's pretty astounding. I I always said if we even have a fraction of the potential side effect of any approved medications, we've been shut down. Yeah, so wow, this is how safe we are.

01:12:56 - Chase (Host) um and you're saying we, like you, do this here in the clinic.

01:12:59 - Speaker 3 (Host) I think there's also a misconception we people in this space, you, we people um we, the people that like you can just get this in the united states, like you keep hearing people have to.

01:13:08 - Chase (Host) Like I have to go to mexico, I have to go out of the country. Like can we get stem cell therapy here in the united states legally?

01:13:13 - Joy (Guest) absolutely yeah. So maybe some states are a little different. Some states are more open, like in California, for example. There was a Senate bill 512 that was passed I forgot which year, but it basically says doctors, if you want to do stem cell therapy, you can, but you just have to put this placard on your door somewhere that people can see it, the patients can see. It says that you're in the clinic where this provider is providing stem cell therapy to you and this is your. You understand that this is not an fda approved therapy and you have looked upon, you know looked at the side effects, you know potential concerns and you discuss with your primary care doctor. So that is something we have to put so public consent yes, yeah, okay yeah so.

01:13:57 So in a sense it says you can do it, but people need to be informed of what this is. You can't overblow that. You know the, the, the benefits and make claims. So because it's not FDA approved. Well, there are a couple of FDA approval. One was for hemo reconstitution. After a person has either autoimmune disease or cancer, when we wipe out their immune system as part of the treatment and then we want to repopulate their immune system so you can give stem cells to repopulate, that's bone marrow transplantation, core blood transplantation. The other one that got approved was for graft versus host disease. So that's more recent, I think just within the the last six months. Um, it's from, uh, I think, bone marrow derived mesenchymal stem cells. So so these are approved therapies.

01:14:49 Everything else that we're doing will be off label yeah, well, more than 50 percent of medicine is practiced off label, so but, Look at.

01:14:58 - Chase (Host) Ozempic. Nobody's complaining about that. That's an off-label use for weight loss and fat loss and all this stuff Appetite suppression. It's a diabetic medicine, exactly. Ketamine as well off-label for therapeutic PTSD anxiety for mental health treatment. If you had a major surgery, if you've been under anesthesia, odds are you've been on ketamine, but now it's an off-label use for like helping mental health.

01:15:20 - Joy (Guest) Right, so we can do a few. So when can you use things for off-label use? When there is clinical evidence. So if there are published evidence showing that you can't do it, that becomes the new standard of care. So, even without approval, the whole medical community is accepting okay, now we can do this and that's how medicine is advancing. We were doing all these things that have nothing to do with FDA anymore. They did their first approval, but we've evolved and medicine is accepting it, so it's no different in this case.

01:15:55 I don't know how willing and open the FDA is at approving all these therapies. I think there's some innate resistance. But one, we can use the therapy for off-label use. Two, there's a different way of looking at it, which is that we are not using the medicine as a drug, because when you talk about FDA approval, you are categorizing these as drugs. But there's also a different way of doing medicine. Like blood transfusion, like liver, heart, organ transplantation, there's no FDA approval. Fda has nothing to do with approving whether or not you can take one person's heart into another person's body. That's not under their purview. This is under the governance of the medical boards of each state. That is called the practice of medicine and the FDA has no business in regulating how medicine is practiced.

01:16:51 Their business is to make sure drugs are safe and that there's some efficacy that people are claiming things and it actually is true, but when we provide natural therapies from one person to another, that's not who they can govern. So they want to make it a drug, and there's the battle going on whether or not it is a drug. Yeah, um, I don't think it's a drug I would agree.

01:17:16 - Chase (Host) No, like how, excuse me, how can something that we all have and like it's like the bare bones of life itself, like how can we consider that a drug unless we go the route of synthesizing it? Which?

01:17:28 - Joy (Guest) is that even possible? A synthetic stem cell? Well, I, I think who? Who produced cells? I mean, this is, this is something that we're still, you know, I still think that, as humans, we are not in the realm, in the matrix, that we know how it may take going above what we know currently in order to provide, to produce cells. We, we're not capable of making any simple, even simple cells. We can't, we don't know how. It's beyond us, at least at this point. So, yeah, so it's like, who made nature? Who made all the plants? Who made you know who? Who manufactured this, that's?

01:18:08 - Chase (Host) the ultimate question, is it not? You know?

01:18:10 - Joy (Guest) who did it?

01:18:11 - Chase (Host) what is life? Who made it? Where does it come from? How? How is life life?

01:18:16 - Joy (Guest) exactly? Yeah, that's my question. So so the, the tissue transplant that we're doing, is produced that this, these cells were made by tissue banks and these tissue banks can also you know, they're under the governance of american association of tissue banks. That's where all the, the tissue, the, you know, transplantation, all that, that's what they are they are able to to produce right to um, to provide um, and that is a whole different branch. It's the. The american association of tissue banks has nothing to do with fda. They're not under the FDA, they're a separate organization. So so what we're doing right now in the U? S is that we're providing tissue transplant. So I'm giving it from one person to another. The cells are performing the same function as as what was in the body before, and the cells always know that they're going to perform the same function.

01:19:16 - Chase (Host) And that's the irony.

01:19:17 - Joy (Guest) But uh, now we've come to philosophical different differences. So, um, because the cells will always do what they do. Um, so just because it's put in the in a part of the body that's different from its previous origin doesn't mean the cells start to do things that are different. The cells do what they do. The mesenchymal stem cells are aggregated all along your blood vessels.

01:19:42 - Chase (Host) They will always do the same.

01:19:43 - Joy (Guest) Everywhere you have blood vessels you have full of mesenchymal stem cells. They're all holding on to your blood vessels waiting for signals. If you have any stress, signal SOS from any part of the body, there are molecules floating through your blood that they can sense and they can squeeze themselves out of the blood, out of the tissue, into your blood vessels and start to swim upstream to find where the highest concentration of that signal is and then they can get out when they get to the highest concentration and then start to make their you know, magic right. They start to secrete signals.

01:20:16 - Chase (Host) So so if we?

01:20:17 - Joy (Guest) put these cells?

01:20:18 yeah if we put these cells directly into the blood, we're just assisting them of doing what they were doing anyhow. So so that's a big you know. I'm hoping that, instead of standing in the way of medical advances and standing in the way of people getting better, that we allow these natural healing therapies doesn't mean that we don't have regulations to make sure the products are safe. I think that's important. That's why these tissue banks are under the governance of american association. Tissue banks are inspected and they're supposed to register with the tissue banks and all that stuff.

01:20:53 So you still want to ensure quality just like organ transplantation but you doesn't need to make these drugs, which they are not.

01:21:02 - Chase (Host) Yeah I want to get into two other final areas here. On stem cells this has been fascinating, by the way. Um cost and ethics, um barriers to entry for health care, for anything really, I think, when it comes to taking care of your body or advancing it or healing it, um, in medicine and nutrition and supplementation, all the above um the various entry predominantly are cost and belief systems around it, and I hear a lot of variances of both when it comes to stem cell therapy. Can you walk us through expected cost for stem cell therapy and I know there might be a loaded question in terms of are we doing a one-off? How many millions or tens of millions of cells are we talking about, or is this like an acute or a chronic thing we need to work out on, like for a long period of time? But just general costs, and what do you think are the ethics behind stem cell therapies that people can't quite get on board with, that is, potentially keeping them from living longer or healing from a disease or injury.

01:22:04 - Joy (Guest) Okay, let's talk about cost. So, first of all, if somebody has an acute injury, it's very possible with one treatment. Then you're one undone and you're fixed. If you don't injure yourself again, then you don't have to come back, right. But if something is chronic, then we may need multiple sessions to really fully allow the tissue to fully heal. Have I seen chronic issues being fixed with one treatment? Yes, and even some very devastating, you know, unsalvageable conditions. You know, including somebody that was in hospice. So it can happen. But do I expect miracles from all my patients? No, I expect a medical norm which is that there's rhythm to how the body repairs, that you can bring about a wave of regeneration with one treatment and then you want to keep hitting your system until everything is fully healed how much does one treatment cost?

01:23:01 one treatment. If we're looking at iv treatment um, the range is wild I'm sure it is both in the us and abroad. So it's between five to fifty thousand dollars.

01:23:12 - Chase (Host) So it's a five to five zero. Yes, five to Five to 50,000.

01:23:15 - Joy (Guest) Exactly so. In our clinic IV infusion we start at $8,500. And that's including our whole protocol with ozone therapy, with a set of supplements, with different peptides, with laser therapy, so everything all included. So we start at $8,500.

01:23:32 - Chase (Host) And this is all out-of-pocket care. Is this insurance? Is there any combination of?

01:23:38 - Joy (Guest) There are very few insurances that actually are covering it, but I think the smart ones will begin to really look at the possibility, because it's going to save them a lot of money in the long run.

01:23:52 - Chase (Host) That's the age-old argument. With insurance, though, right Say hey, we can do this one thing now and prevent costs down the road.

01:23:57 - Joy (Guest) Exactly, exactly with insurance, though right say, hey, we can do this one thing now and prevent costs down the road. Exactly, exactly so. So there's, um, yeah, there are very few that cover, so majority, I would say uh, 95 of the insurance will not cover it. And um, uh, if you so, for we start at 8500 and for every additional uh cc of stem cells we use, we add $2,500. So in general people will. It will cost them between $8,500 to about $18,000 per treatment. If we also add exosomes, you know, depending on the person. So if a person's older, if a person has a really severe condition, really aggressively progressing one, then we'll, we'll, we'll add more. So, but in general that's, that's the range between 8,500 to 18,000 and of course it will be more if a person also want to add injections. I want to add this joint, that joint, you know. So we, we charge 2,500 for each additional joint injection, which is very low, yeah but but things can add up.

01:24:59 - Chase (Host) Yeah, familiar with ben greenfield? I think you had him on your podcast, yes, and I was on his as well. Okay, yeah, the dude's wild. Um, didn't he do stem cell injections in every joint of his body?

01:25:09 - Joy (Guest) he probably did. He probably did the makeover yeah I think I saw, yeah, something about that, yeah, right I don't know if that's necessary, but you, yeah, I don't think it's necessary, especially someone who is already here.

01:25:22 - Chase (Host) air quote like healthy, like I don't you know. I've met Ben a couple of times but I don't know his daily life. I don't imagine him having like horrible arthritis or injuries in every joint, I mean he's a really active, great, in great shape guy. I think he's in his like mid to late forties um, and doesn't look at it all so like to someone like that. Why you know.

01:25:45 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, well, there's you know, there are people offering it and I think it's very expensive, um, I don't know how much, but very expensive Um. So, yeah, you can do that. You have the resources you want to get all injected, that's fine, but I don't think it's necessary. You, if there are problematic areas, we can inject, but otherwise we can count on the iv route yeah, to achieve incredible results for all your organs. You know what about the organs, right? Are you injecting into your heart? Are you injecting into your liver right? You can't do that.

01:26:18 So you can't the full body makeover you can't possibly inject everywhere. So IV is the way to go.

01:26:28 - Chase (Host) Yeah. So that's kind of the cost. And then you know, walk us through kind of what do you think or what do you see, or what do you hear? Are some of these ethics behind, or even opposing stem cell therapy?

01:26:38 - Joy (Guest) some of these ethics behind or even opposing stem cell therapy. Yeah, I think the whole ethical considerations were a like old heritage from the the bush administration. When he banned federal funding for stem cell therapy, he didn't ban stem cell therapy itself just the funding he just said, we are not going to fund for any embryonic stem cell research that destroy embryos, so people can still do research with existing embryos.

01:27:03 But he said federally, he would not allow any grants, any funding for people who are destroying new embryos Because embryonic stem cells you have to destroy the embryo in order to get embryonic stem cells Because, just so you know, fertilized egg start to divide, divide in the form of ball, and at about day five to seven of this ball, on the inside of this ball there's all these cells, they're called the inner cell mass. So you can take one of those. Each one is embryonic stem cell. So that's the embryonic stem cell, very, very early. So he banned that because, um, you know the belief of a lot of choice Right.

01:27:42 There's a big divide in this country. So, yeah, he believed that you are basically killing a human, so that's banned. However, I don't know anybody that's doing embryonic stem cell therapy in this country. Maybe they're still doing research. I'm not in touch with that circle. What I care about is what we can give patients of things that we can actually do. What have we found out? So that's the research I care about. So embryonic stem cells we can use it. So I'm not going to bother. Not to mention embryonic stem cells, even though there's huge potential of what they can do because they're so early, so primitive. But they also have the problem of being too wild. There's a potential for them to form this uncontrolled growth called teratoma. They can form a ball of. You know teeth, hair, bones and you know soft tissue. I don't know if you've heard of women growing a tumor in their uterus.

01:28:41 Yeah so that's the embryonic stem cell going awry, forming this.

01:28:46 - Chase (Host) You just get random finished products of tissues yeah, exactly, and then a ball of a bunch of other tissue.

01:28:51 - Joy (Guest) Exactly so. You know, I don't know the percentage of pregnancies that end up in miscarriage, but it's a significant percentage.

01:29:01 - Chase (Host) We went through one. Oh really, Our first pregnancy was a miscarriage, and then we had our son.

01:29:05 - Joy (Guest) yeah, it's not easy to make a perfect human being, no, so a lot of times, the little mistakes here, little you know, dna changes there, whoops, we can't make a working human, so abort. So it's, you know, abort the mission. So by the time a new baby is actually born, it's almost like you have withstood the test of time, right.

01:29:29 - Chase (Host) You've gone. You can say that again. Absolutely yes.

01:29:32 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, so everything has to work in order for this human to be living and breathing for nine months and then for it to get ready to pop out. So it is not easy. So in a sense, nature has tested for you when you use umbilical cord derived stem cells, which the product we use only come from life, healthy newborns. Newborns, the mothers are young, under 30, and the, the baby's very healthy. You know with. You know free from any, any issues, and the parents are healthy. And then you know all the. There's a lot of screening going on so that umbilical cord, the cells in that cord, you know genetically it doesn't have a whole bunch of abnormalities, right, right.

01:30:17 It's, it's, it's pretty it's, it's pretty solid compared to the embryonic stem cells, that you don't know how this is going to turn out yet it could be a it could be a bad one.

01:30:26 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

01:30:28 - Joy (Guest) So so the uncertainty of what you were using. And also when they um, when they get the umbilical, get the embryonic stem cells and put another person, you are thinking okay, I'm forming tissue, I'm forming new tissue for this person and there's also a pretty good chance of rejection because it's totally different from you, it's from a different embryo. You never had a chance to become a human, so whatever genetic expression it has is very different from you. So if it forms new tissue, then there is a chance of rejection. Granted, they're very new, very young, very primitive. There may be more chance of adaptation, but there are certain risks. That's why you hear overseas have you heard like like a some guy getting embryonic stem cell treatment in the back and grew a big tumor on the back? Have you heard of that?

01:31:25 - Chase (Host) I mean, I've heard some horror stories of like don't ever get this overseas, kind of thing. But you know a specific example? No, not that one.

01:31:32 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, so the embryonic stem cells. So that's where the initial concern was that, oh, you're destroying embryo, you know you're killing babies. But again, in the US no one is doing that. Yes, overseas maybe, if I don't know which country, but I yeah, I think there's some research going on, but definitely not in the US. And also another concern people ask oh, are you killing babies? Um, no, in the us fetal stem cell therapy is illegal. You can't just get parts from a new, you know newly formed fetus and then use that to treat. That's not legal in the us. So that definitely ethically yeah there's a huge concern, right?

01:32:20 the only country I know that you do fetal stem cell transplant is is ukraine. Maybe there's more, I don't know, but the most famous is ukraine, and what they do is to get these aborted fetuses. And what I know is that there are clinics that Russian women go to and to purpose, purposely abort the baby so that they can actually be compensated for giving you know, giving up concern. But in this country we only use, if we use, birth tissue, derived stem cells. We use it from life, healthy births with mother's consent, and the mothers cannot be compensated in any way. We can't even give them a pen. We can't, you know, because the sales, the sale of human tissue is prohibited in america, so you can't try to seduce or you know right lure of any yeah exactly, and um, um and, and, of course, if you use your own stem cells that's, there's no ethical concerns yeah but, yeah, umbilical cord?

01:33:29 no, there's really. Because what happens to this? These umbilical cord? If you don't utilize it, they're going to throw them in the trash, and and they throw them by the thousands and thousands in the hospital in the past.

01:33:42 - Chase (Host) Throwing tens of thousands of dollars potentially.

01:33:44 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, in the past, but now there's a chance for assisting and healing.

01:33:51 - Chase (Host) Well, I feel like a billion other questions come to mind, and this is such a wild frontier. It's new to me. I feel like we could carve out so many other questions and talking points, but this has already been an incredible block of time. I want to say thank you, you're very welcome Before I ask my final question. I just want to ask you is there any other area of stem cell, stem cell therapy, that you would like to shine a light on that we didn't talk about. That you feel is worth people listening to.

01:34:20 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, so I think people need to understand that stem cell therapy, because of all these mechanisms of mechanisms, of actions that I talked about, they can really help a person with chronic conditions, get their body to assist their body. You know, like the image of the clear, high def picture right, waking your body up all of a sudden it knows what to do. Now, a lot of the conditions it could be from head to toe, all these different organs, it doesn't matter, it's the information, is a signal to regenerate that matters. So that's why people come to our clinic or any other doctor's clinic who do stem cell therapy, have a wide range of difficulties, from autism to Alzheimer's, to different brain conditions, traumatic brain injury, ms, parkinson's, als, to heart, lung, liver, kidneys, all these internal organ issues, and then to muscular skullal repair, to autoimmune conditions and yeah, so wide range. And then you know different organs, things we don't know yet in the forefront. You know somebody with testicle issues, so we're seeing just beautiful things.

01:35:33 We had a patient who was blind in one eye for 44 years because he had a surgery brain surgery when he was nine years old and they damaged the optic nerve and then, after one stem cell treatment, he started. He started to see in that one eye right. So these are the things that I don't even. I would have never even said there's a chance, because you know there's difficult. You know blindness, that's very difficult, so I wouldn't even give any. You know there's difficult, you know blindness, that's very difficult, so I wouldn't even give any. You know what I consider maybe false hope.

01:36:01 I wouldn't even say that's a possibility but then it happened and the patient's thrilled. So so just incredible potentials, right? So potentials to help people heal. Help people If you have to do surgery, it's going to make you heal two or three times as fast. I've seen that consistently. People get back to work, get back to their lives and the tissue healing as far as the completeness and the beautiful cohesion of the tissue that is just incredible so you can utilize it that way. Or people who just want to live a longer, better life. And of course, I've heard repeatedly from people oh gosh, you know, 60-year-old, I feel like I'm 30 again. So they feel this vitality and improvement in so many aspects of their lives, so from energy level to sex drive, to ability to their cognition, to stamina, um, to sleep, so everything is improving.

01:37:00 - Chase (Host) So, yeah, the the utilization is is just I feel like we're just barely tapping into it. Yes, in a way I might have to come talk to you. I'm actually pending some new surgeries. I've had both of my hips reconstructed uh, from old injuries, um and uh. Now it's like it's getting really bad again and they're telling me I need replacements at this point. Or I would do the femoral acetabular impingement reconstructive surgery again to just buy me maybe a couple more years before needing to get a reconstructive or a replacement therapy or replacement surgery anyway. So I don't know.

01:37:35 - Joy (Guest) I don't know well, can definitely buy you some time.

01:37:37 - Chase (Host) That's you know that's at least yeah, and yeah, well, one word that stood out to me throughout all of this has been potential. The potential for the human body is profound and I don't know if we'll ever really tap into its fullest potential. But you know, potential is really what we're all about here at Ever Forward Radio. So my final question is you know, maybe through that lens of potential, but you know potential is really what we're all about here at Ever Forward Radio. So my final question is you know, maybe through that lens of potential, how do you interpret those two words Ever Forward? What does that mean to you?

01:38:06 - Joy (Guest) I think of potential as, like the nature of the universe, we're ever expanding, we're ever flourishing. So the universe expanding, expanding our understanding and our human mind and our technology, everything is expanding. So the forwardness is reflecting this momentum of natural progression. So if you don't want to go forward, you're trying to fight against it, you're just, you know that's not, you're not going to win the end. So the eventual projection is forwardness.

01:38:38 - Chase (Host) Never right or wrong answer. I appreciate every interpretation. Dr Joy Kong, where can my audience go to connect with you, learn more about what you're doing in the world? Through content, through a clinic? What's the best way to learn more about you and your world?

01:38:50 - Joy (Guest) Yeah, the best place will be if people want to learn about everything I'm doing. It will be my website, joykongmdcom. So Kong, like King Kong, and my YouTube channel is a huge resource.

01:39:05 - Chase (Host) It is. I was using a lot of that for research. Today. It's great content there, yeah, so I have a podcast.

01:39:11 - Joy (Guest) the Dr Joy Kong podcast. But on YouTube I do a lot of education, just every aspect. I think I probably produce more content on stem cells than anybody. Um, and there's so many questions you know, people need to know, people deserve to know. And then, um, my Instagram, people want to get in touch with me directly. It's just Dr Underscore joy, underscore Kong. Okay, yeah, but, um, yeah, and I also produced a stem cell cream and we didn't even yeah, I know.

01:39:39 - Chase (Host) Thank you so much. Yeah, she hooked it up. We got a great little product to try the stem cell regenerative cream, deep penetrating, um, anti-wrinkle, skin tightening, anti-inflammatory collagen, promoting all the things. I have no shame in skincare games, so I'm going to take it and run with it and try to use it before my wife takes it. Thank you so much Thank you For more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode show notes or head to everforwardradio.com