EFR 875: How Your Brain Lies to You and How to Overcome Self-Deception For Good with Bizzie Gold

00:01 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:05 - Bizzie (Host) Your brain is a filthy liar and, worse, you actually believe it. That voice in your head, the one whispering that you're not good enough, that you're destined to repeat the same toxic cycles. It's not you, it's a glitch in your programming. Your brain is a filthy liar and makes it impossible for you to keep lying to yourself. It pulls your subconscious beliefs into the light, exposing every self-deception blind spot you've been running on autopilot. This isn't therapy. This isn't some feel-good journaling exercise. This is a science-backed interrogation of your own BS. Hack your negative self-talk, rewire the patterns that keep you stuck, build unshakable emotional resilience, or don't Just keep listening to that voice in your head and see where it gets you. Hey, I'm Busy Gold. I'm a neurocognition expert and the founder of Break Method, and I am here at Ever Forward Radio for the second time.

00:59 - Chase (Host) You know that awful feeling when jet lag hits you like a truck. You know the one I'm talking about your brain's foggy, your body's confused and you're just staring at the ceiling at 3 am wondering why you ever booked that red-eye flight. Yeah, we've all been there. That's why I want to no have to tell you about Flykit, an all-in-one jet lag solution that is radically different than anything else you've ever tried. It's not just another melatonin pill or generic advice. Flykit uses your personal health goals and your circadian rhythm, powered by AI-driven protocols, to dial in the perfect timing for key supplementation meals and even sleep. So, instead of crashing in your hotel room or sleepwalking through that big meeting, you'll feel refreshed, clear-headed and actually ready for the trip you just took. Even if I'm crossing just over a few time zones or international travel, I swear I do not get jet lag. In fact, with Flykit, jet lag is now a choice. If you want to save 15%, try it for yourself. Head to flykitcom that's F-L-Y-K-I-T-Tcom. Check out code Chase, just C-H-A-S-E. You're going to save 15% off of any Flykit kit. That's Flykit. Smarter travel starts with your biology.

02:28 Today's episode is for you if you've started to suspect that the real problem in your life isn't other people, it's the lies your own brain is feeding you. This is for you if you've done the therapy, the journaling, the self-help hamster wheel and yet you're still repeating the same patterns. This episode is for you if you're tired of living in a reality distorted by your subconscious and want to finally see the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it is. This episode is for you if you're ready to rip apart the mental traps keeping you stuck and rewire your brain for actual, sustainable change. Welcome back to Everford Radio. I'm your host, chase Schooning, army veteran, certified health coach, wellness entrepreneur, and it is my pleasure, my honor, to welcome back the one and only Busy Gold.

03:22 Busy first appeared on the show several years ago, back in episode 241, how the truth can be weaponized based on timing and intention. That title alone doesn't pique your interest. I don't know what will, but if you find value in what Busy talks about here today, definitely go back and check out her first appearance. But speaking of checking out, definitely run, don't walk to pick up her new book your Brain is a Filthy Liar, available at all retailers and Amazon now as of June 3rd.

03:51 And if maybe listening is more your jam which I'm sure it is because you're here listening to this podcast, you want to check out the audiobook version. You can probably get it for free. In fact, through audibletrialcom slash everforward, when you sign up you get a free 30 day trial, which equates to a free book. So if you want to keep listening to what Busy has to say and you want to crack open her book in an audio book kind of way and get a freebie, check the show notes today under episode resources. That's A-U-D-I-B-L-E-T-R-I-A-Lcom slash ever forward to sign up for your free 30 day trial of my favorite audio book platform, audible today. If you find value in our conversation today would mean the world to me.

04:36 If you follow the show, subscribe to the show on your podcast platform of choice. It takes literally just a couple of seconds to do right now and it supports the show in big, big ways. For that I say thank you and it helps me and my guests reach even more people to help them live a life ever forward. You say quote make no mistake, your brain is a filthy liar. It will do everything in its power to repeat patterns that sabotage your happiness, your relationships and your goals. Why? Because those patterns are comfortable, familiar and safe. What are some examples. What are some everyday lies? People tell themselves that feel harmless but actually keep them stuck in destructive patterns.

05:20 - Bizzie (Host) Let's break down a few mechanisms of self-deception to make this land for people, excuses, justifications and rationalizations. So more often than not, these are actually going to pop up in your brain. Imagine like a little thought bubble populating. They're going to show up like that and they feel really reasonable in the moment. I'll give you a very tangible example. That's something that would happen to me. I might go look at the laundry. No, full well, it is clean, it's been clean. It's been sitting there waiting for me to fold it. And I could sit there and look at it and say I think this is going to take too long. I don't have time to do this right now. And I could say like a hundred times I don't have time to do this right now. I'll do it later, I'll figure it out later, I'll work it out. It'll be fine. I could do that for a week. Or I could look at it and say I'm not, that's a lie, I will not figure it out later. I will keep saying this to myself for one week. And because this sort of mess doesn't bother me, I likely won't do it until I'm pissing off my husband. He's like um honey, what's happening in the laundry room? Sorry, honey, I'm gonna go take care of that right now. Right, so that's more.

06:34 My deeply ingrained pattern is avoid tasks like that because it feels like it's going to be so long and annoying. And yet I'll then look at a task that probably somebody else would be like bro, that's like a five hour long. Like oh, build a whole website for a client, yeah, I can. Just, I'll crack that out. No problem, that's self-deception. I'm not going to crack that out, no problem, it's my brain likes that thing. So my brain is telling me oh, yeah, I got that, I can. Everything's like, I'll figure it out, I'll figure it out.

07:04 And if you were to just take the, the like the phrase, I'll figure it out, that doesn't sound inherently bad. It sounds inherently good and in many areas of my life it has a positive outcome. But there are plenty areas of my life that that does not have a positive outcome because I'm figuring it out later at the expense of something. So there's always this borrowing and putting yourself into debt. So this is obviously very physically manifesting version, but this happens all the time. Positive self-deception makes you highlight the reward and minimize the risk. Negative self-deception does the exact opposite. Right, highlights the risk, minimizes the reward.

07:43 So our brain's kind of doing this sort of undulation all the time of like a little bit negative, a little bit positive, ultimately all in an effort to try to keep you in a container that it knows the cause and effect in all cases, so it'll get you to do things just similarly enough to just make yourself keep repeating. Do things just similarly enough to just make yourself keep repeating. Because your brain actually defines safety only as known cause and effect. And we build these rules between the ages of two and five. So what Chase knows to be air quotes safe at whatever age you are.

08:17 Now, how old are you now? 39. Okay, well, I'm 40. So, as your elder, we tell ourselves these things at 40. Like, there are things that I have busy gold consciously know from my life experience at 40. Does that mean that when push comes to shove, if I'm emotionally activated, I'm going to do the things that I know to do at age 40, or is something else potentially going to step forward and do things its own way? That part of us, until really rewired it can come out at any time and we get triggered in so many subtle ways that I think people don't notice, in part because I think this whole word triggering has been wildly overused and misused and distorted.

09:01 - Chase (Host) I hate that word deeply.

09:03 - Bizzie (Host) There's a process that we do in my work called trigger mapping. What I have found most of the time is that the triggers that people think they have are actually very far down the line from the real triggers, and in my work we also have created a device where you can track the biometric data that shows you when in fact you did get triggered. So then you know consciously you're like like, oh my God, like this and this and this happened. But if you really go back into it it's like, oh no, no, actually, three hours ago, this other thing that you thought was subtle, that went under the radar that may be positive self-deception you blanketed over and kept going. That's actually what started your nervous system going and then you just didn't notice it until it escalated to a certain point.

09:47 - Chase (Host) We can lie to ourselves all day long. The nervous system doesn't lie.

09:50 - Bizzie (Host) Correct. The nervous system is going to experience something and, honestly, if I look back I don't know if you know this, but I used to deal with really bad panic attacks when I was younger. I went from age nine to 19, having multiple panic attacks a day, every single day, like plagued my whole life. The very first time I ever had a panic attack, I remember consciously feeling totally fine, nothing. I wasn't consciously aware of anything that set me off and in fact I was laughing at a TV show and all of a sudden I just kept going and I looked at my dad. I'm like what, what is happening to me right now? And he's like I don't know, let's go walk it off. So my nervous system took off without me and my consciousness was having a completely different experience. I was laughing at a TV show.

10:42 It all turns out, if I really go back into it, what ended up triggering it was that really, at some point, maybe a week or two prior, my dad had just randomly said oh, you know that kid that you were playing with last week. Yeah, he just died Like just dropped dead of an aneurysm. He thought he had a headache, raised his hand in class, tried to go to the nurse's office and just dropped dead. And I just remember I don't. I don't think I like said anything at the time. I just kind of was like, oh, that's so sad, but we will keep replaying something, especially at that age. If that doesn't, if we don't know how to make that make sense, we're going to keep trying to move it around the laboratory of our brain and try to make it make sense.

11:24 So I hadn't yet consciously made it make sense yet, but I was watching ER with my dad when I had this panic attack. So I'm consciously laughing about whatever's taking place on the screen. But watching ER was enough to ping back to this. You can think you have a headache and just drop dead when you're nine years old. That's a thing, because that had never occurred to me before. So now these two things are pinging back to each other and I'm realizing very quickly like my nervous system is dysregulated and we are not okay right now. Then, sadly, what often happens with panic attacks is then you start to have anticipation panic attacks.

12:02 - Chase (Host) Oh, my God, yeah.

12:02 - Bizzie (Host) So then you have a panic attack because you're afraid that you're going to have a panic attack.

12:06 - Chase (Host) And then you become you're so meta about it.

12:08 - Bizzie (Host) Am I going to have a?

12:09 - Chase (Host) panic attack, or am I just so fixated on the possibility of having one?

12:14 - Bizzie (Host) Yeah, I think most anxiety attacks I mean obviously in a perfect world, like if we could all go back to the first one and handle it differently we might actually be able to prevent a lot of the future anxiety attacks, because what happens in that first one sets the stage for all the anticipation, panic attacks and most people where panic eventually goes is only that it's just fear of having another panic attack that in fact gives you said panic attack. It's a terrible cycle.

12:44 - Chase (Host) Let's, let's shift gears, cause I'm not thinking about panic attack. It's a terrible cycle. Let's, let's shift gears, cause I'm not thinking about panic attacks, and let's get away. Um, you described self-deception as a survival mechanism rooted in control, not protection. How can listeners begin to notice the difference between real safety and the illusion that their brain is creating?

13:05 - Bizzie (Host) begin to notice the difference between real safety and the illusion that their brain is creating. I think this splits based on brain pattern type and I think sometimes we the lie is that we tell ourselves we're protecting self or protecting other, when really what's actually happening beneath the surface is that may be one of the sneaky justifications that we're making Defense mechanism.

13:24 - Chase (Host) It's another defense mechanism. It's another defense mechanism. Justification to your point?

13:26 - Bizzie (Host) yeah. So I'll give an example For my brain pattern type. I tend to be extremely self-sacrificing and I'll always put other people ahead of my own self-preservation. So in any given moment, I might tell myself I have to do this because I have to protect so-and-so, or I have to do this because I have to protect zones, or I have to do this because they need me. Do I have to do this because they need me? Like that sounds, again, inherently good and could I help them? Yes, but actually one of the things that has a long-term detrimental effect on my life is not ever putting myself first, not practicing self-care, overloading my plate, enabling other people by stepping in and helping them rather than saying, hey, I can help you, but me helping you right now is robbing you of an opportunity. So I love you and I'm here for support and to cheer you on, but I will not do that thing.

14:19 - Chase (Host) Did you notice this about yourself before or after children, or was it?

14:24 - Bizzie (Host) Oh, I think long before.

14:25 This is my MO. I've always been this way so I've had to. That's one of the patterns that I've had to learn to unwind, where I've had to learn to meet that self-deceptive reflex with the right logical pattern interrupt. So I can see like, yeah, I can, and technically that sounds good, but I can see where I'm deceiving myself, when really I'm trying to control the outcome for this person. I don't want you to be in pain. So even though I'm telling myself I'm protecting, I'm really trying to control your outcome. I'm playing God with your outcome by stepping in right now.

14:58 - Chase (Host) That's a bitter truth, do you think a lot of people are kind of like nodding their head with that one and kind of feeling a little gut check. Is that something that's pretty common in your experience and in your work?

15:10 - Bizzie (Host) Yes, In general people split into three categories Overt control, covert control or what I call in my work a switch. People can switch based on different things. So in my work we break apart relational switchers, security-based switchers and contextual switchers. A relational switcher they may, in a work setting, be fully comfortable presenting more overt, dominating kind of operating in their masculine. But then they go into their intimate relationship and they go to more manipulative, placating, quiet, control style where they're trying to still control an outcome but they're willing to do it in a way that keeps the peace or at least keeps up the appearance of calm. Then you have the security-based switchers, and this is actually the most common type where, going into a relationship, they present covert and agreeable and sweet and maybe more passive. Whatever you want, babe. Whatever you want, Sure no, I don't, it's fine, you know. Whatever you want to do, I'm good with that, Doing a bunch of sports or activities that you really don't like doing, but you're cool with it in the beginning phase of the relationship.

16:21 - Chase (Host) And then what like three months, six months later? Phases of a relationship, and then what like three months, six months later? Well, and then, as soon as, commitment gets really anchored.

16:26 - Bizzie (Host) and as soon as they feel secure, thus security-based as soon as security feels like it's on the table, their real overt controlling self comes out Suddenly needy, codependent, clingy, opinionated all of the opposite things that they were in the beginning.

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20:09 - Bizzie (Host) And it was a tactic. They there's a part of them through what's happened in their life that adapted to equate me being agreeable and covertly controlling, with my ability to kind of hook you Like I can get the commitment that I'm looking for if I seem chill. Now the only thing is I'm not chill and one day my face is going to come feeling up, I'll find you.

20:34 - Chase (Host) This happens all the time.

20:36 - Bizzie (Host) And also, what happens typically is that in this sort of scenario, commitment gets anchored, which typically the person on the other side is completely blindsided, because this type of person tends to attract somebody who's quite the opposite. The needy, clingy person tends to attract the person who is more avoidant, detached, a little bit more cold and calculated, and the most toxic relationships I have seen are when both people are switch, but they go opposite directions.

21:13 - Chase (Host) That can't work right.

21:14 - Bizzie (Host) I mean.

21:15 - Chase (Host) Or is it just it's got to become a game?

21:16 - Bizzie (Host) I imagine like it's like mr and mrs smith they're both just like it can be so strategic and playing the other person at a high level well, and the key here is that if both are switch and they both have opposite cycles, no one's ever actually getting their needs met.

21:32 It it's only toxic. You could have a situation where and this happens too where maybe you have two switches that have the same same cycle, where in the beginning they're both agreeable, Then they make the commitment and then they're both wildly oppositional and overt about it, but maybe they're both trying to equally control each other. Sometimes that actually to some extent works.

21:56 - Chase (Host) They might kind of feed into it a little bit Totally.

21:59 - Bizzie (Host) Right where it's kind of like a my chips are all in or your chips all in, where everyone's a little bit more clingy.

22:04 - Chase (Host) You're always just trying to call each other's bluff and no one actually does.

22:07 - Bizzie (Host) In a way that actually stands the test of time, more than the previous example. Because the previous example let's call it a guy and a girl right, the guy is pretty like steady and his cadence stays the same. He doesn't really change, he's just gone from not being in a committed relationship to being in a committed relationship. Let's say he's just a covert control type. Then you've got the switch type that plays passive hooks. Him. They get into this relationship and now suddenly she's needy and controlling. He's not going to change, so she's not going to get what she wants from this. Over time he's probably going to push her away, maybe he'll even cheat on her. All of the things that ultimately she's trying to prevent she's causing and that's a really tough pill for some people to swallow.

22:56 But we might just want to really let that one marinate for a second, because in general, the people and this is not just exclusively a female thing, men do it too. The more you try to prevent cheating, your actions eventually create a scenario where that becomes a viable option, because you're going to control my life, no matter what I do Now. I just need to find ways to get away from you.

23:19 - Chase (Host) And it just probably drives a wedge in between the two of them. You know all the actions are trying to like keep them closer and together. It's just making the other person be more on guard and distant.

23:31 - Bizzie (Host) And here's a perfect example. I work with many people who struggle with this sort of behavior presentation in relationships. This is a perfect example of self-deception. Consciously, they do realize they can look and see that two plus two equals four. I know that my clinginess and neediness and blowing up my husband's phone 10 times if he didn't come home exactly when he said he would, I do realize that that's pushing my husband away and yet I cannot stop.

23:59 - Chase (Host) Why can't we stop? Why can't we stop we?

24:01 - Bizzie (Host) can't stop because the brain until you actually hack the language architectures that the brain is generating when we perceive reality, they can't see their way out of it because their brain in that state believes that it's reasonable. And it's only when they've come out of that because they they, their brain in that state believes that it's reasonable. And it's only when they've come out of that state to a different state can they reflect and say that was a little, that was a bit much. I maybe shouldn't have called 10 times.

24:25 I maybe shouldn't have gone to the bar where you are with your friends and driven around for an hour only, until the damage is done only until yeah, only until the damage is done or they're calm enough and regulated enough after the state to reflect, which not everybody's going to do. In brain pattern mapping we track nine different markers. The order of each marker tells us a whole lot about how somebody will handle any given situation. So not everybody will self-reflect at any period of time, but there are some that as soon as the emotional intensity goes down, they can see a little bit more clearly, because emotion really does. It blinds us, and emotion and self-deception have this interconnected relationship that really pulls the wool over our eyes and makes us repeat chaos, destruction, heartache.

25:13 - Chase (Host) It's all sabotage Makes me think of the most extreme example here. You know, and that's um was the act of rage or act of passion. You know, it's a totally different category of murder versus um uh not premedicated pre premeditated, premeditated, there we go.

25:30 - Bizzie (Host) Um, maybe, maybe, maybe.

25:32 - Chase (Host) So we can now kind of getting into. I'd like to talk about exposing the emotional mechanisms that trap us and keep us from growing. How does the brain use emotional reasoning to create false narratives, and what are some signs that we're mistaking feelings for facts?

25:50 - Bizzie (Host) It goes back to language. So perhaps let's give this some working definition. Back to language. So perhaps let's give this some working definition. Our brain functions on systems of language, much like a car would function on gasoline as its fuel source. Anywhere we look, your brain is tagging along subtle definitions, right, even if, like I don't know what my brain would describe this texture. But if I look at it, my brain thinks the word texture. Or this is black, that is blue, your chase. This is a microphone. This is salty. Shout out LMNT. I'm in love.

26:26 - Chase (Host) Okay, element Element.

26:28 - Bizzie (Host) Element, just element, okay.

26:30 - Chase (Host) Tasty sparkling treats. Now, I know that.

26:32 - Bizzie (Host) So tasty sparkling treats. Anywhere I look, my brain is going to try to define whatever I'm looking at. So if you know how things can get pixelated, right, you look at a picture and you can kind of see things get pixelated. Everything we're looking at, really, there's a field of projected data that can all be broken down to something similar to a pixel. Our brain is actually aggregating these pixels and defining them. So it's like these pixels make up Chase's face, these pixels make up his drink. We're doing this on a level that's not conscious. We're not really thinking about it all the time. We've either tuned it out.

27:11 - Chase (Host) There's no way we could.

27:12 - Bizzie (Host) There's no way that we could. There's no way we could. There's no way that we could, although there are some that I think have an overactive volume of this which can actually be a precursor to pure OCD, which is different than like the compulsive behavior We'd have to like wash your hands where it's like. As soon as a thought populates, they fixate on that thought and cannot get out of whatever that thought form is.

27:36 I see, okay, thought, and cannot get out of whatever that thought form is, I see Okay. So some people, I think this language that's happening in the background to aggregate our pixels, they can hear it and if they're low self-trust and susceptible to outside influence, even in the form of a thought, they can start to let that actually steer their course. So where maybe you or I would have, we're tired or sick and we have some sort of like negative thought and we're like, oh, I don't get out of here, I don't want to think about that, does that ever happen to you? Where, like, something negative will come in and you will?

28:05 - Chase (Host) actively push it away and be like you got to shake it off. Yeah, Get out of here.

28:09 - Bizzie (Host) And that happens to every single one of us. We all have what appear to be randomly negative occurring thoughts. I don't actually think that they're random at all, but we'll save that perhaps for another podcast.

28:21 - Chase (Host) Yeah, there isn't a randomness in the universe, right.

28:24 - Bizzie (Host) Yeah, everything is patterned, but what's interesting is how we're perceiving reality is filtering, how we're organizing. So my filter is going to organize things slightly different than the way your filter is organizing things, which is why I think it's important to really think about our whole world, like this projected data field that breaks down into pixels, because it's really up for very subjective interpretation. So, ultimately, our perception of reality and language architectures are completely connected. You cannot separate them because our brain to define our reality, we have to use language. So one of the things that I've found the most fascinating is that, in the mental health space save maybe, certain forms like CBT, which ultimately, I think, address it, in my opinion, in the wrong way- cognitive behavioral therapy.

29:16 No one's actually getting to that instance of the language that is generated as soon as we're perceiving. That is where I think things start to take a very sinister turn in how we carry out our lives. One example that might help, because I think sometimes analogies really help drive a point home have you ever seen the show suits? No, actually, I know, I know a lot of people are screaming at me right now.

29:43 - Chase (Host) No, they just revamped it.

29:44 - Bizzie (Host) There's a whole new like suits la version it doesn't have harvey specter, therefore it's not even really suits yeah, uh, it's always been on my list to watch. It's never it's it's so good, you totally started at the beginning. I'm watching the whole all the seasons again with my daughter. It's so good, okay, so for everybody except Chase, because we all know that you watch.

30:04 - Chase (Host) I've been under a rock apparently.

30:06 - Bizzie (Host) They're the primary lawyer. Who's the charismatic lead character lawyer? His name is Harvey Specter, and Harvey Specter rides a gray edge, I'll say, in his legal career. He's always slightly on the edge of doing something illegal. But, like, also has principles, and you like want to believe that his principles override his desire to win.

30:31 - Chase (Host) But also like sounds like a damn good lawyer he's a great lawyer fabulous.

30:35 - Bizzie (Host) But the whole point here is he's charismatic, he's articulate. You want to believe him. So even when he is like clearly doing something illegal, you're still rooting for him. Have you seen my cousin vinny? Yeah okay, yeah, so you know the initial public defender that they get where behind closed doors. The guy seems great.

30:57 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

30:57 - Bizzie (Host) What happens when he gets on the stand to do opening argument? Not so much. Ah, ah, ah, ah ah. He literally is stutter. He can't even talk and they both look at each other like we're going to get fried on the electric chair. If this guy is the one that's representing us, we're doomed, we're dead.

31:11 When we're thinking about how our brain is perceiving reality and generating language, it's like having Harvey Specter versus the stuttering man from my Cousin, Vinny, right now. Harvey Specter knows all of your deepest secrets, all of your deepest insecurities, every memory that's distorted or objective, and he's able to effectively use all of these in his little toolkit to push on all of your wounds to get you to comply and see. Oh yeah, he is right, he does make a good point. We should go back to that X he does. Maybe we won't ever find anybody else. He does make a good point. I am gaining weight. Maybe no one will ever want me again In the moment.

31:57 Feels reasonable, but is it really reasonable? Harvey just knows exactly how to weaponize our insecurity, our truth, our memories, to get us to fall in the trap, and he's really good at doing it. The language feels like you and I think that is one of maybe the harshest truths of the book is that however many years old you are, you've likely spent that many years thinking that these patterns are your authentic self. And they are not your authentic self and they actually don't even have your best interests at heart and the process of separating from them can be painful at heart. And the process of separating from them can be painful, it can be jarring. In my work we call this reality vertigo, because when you have to go face to face with this pattern of distortion and you see what it's done in your life and how much work there is to do to actually rewire it, it does feel like reality kind of melts for a second, because you realize pretty quickly that all of these things that you've constructed as the stable, dense reality are slippery gray.

33:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah you begin to pull on that thread and it's not just the thing that you're pulling, that you're examining or questioning you realize how deep that thread goes and how literally connected it is to every person, every relationship, every idea, thought, experience of your entire life, Because that through line, that thread is the entire belief system that you've built your entire life off of.

33:32 - Bizzie (Host) And it is a tapestry, All these interconnected threads of different colors that make these shapes and patterns. And once you start to pull it if anyone's ever had a sweater start to go with a thread out you pull it, even a little bit. Sometimes it doesn't take much for the whole thing to unravel.

33:52 - Chase (Host) It's like the whole thing melts.

33:55 - Bizzie (Host) One of the things that you brought up, when you brought up the Rumi quote, that I think is important for people to grasp is the way that we encode memory is again through that lens of perception of reality and the way we encode memories. At age three, for example, if we don't have a lot of context about our world, we haven't learned a lot. Maybe we've lived a very sheltered life. We could experience something with the knowledge base that we've gained already that ends up being encoded into our body, our soma, our nervous system, that isn't actually based on objective truth. It was just the closest we could get to it with our three-year-old aggregated knowledge. Okay, so we end up being patterned with these memories and encoded with memories that are not necessarily based in objective truth. Then those memories I don't know how much your audience is familiar- with SOMA.

34:56 - Chase (Host) Do you talk a lot about somatic experience or what the SOMa is? Yeah, but please give us a little refresher here.

34:59 - Bizzie (Host) So when we experience, when we experience memory, there's usually some sort of sensation with it. For each person that's going to be slightly different. So some people maybe it's like a slight warmth in your heart. If it's a positive memory, for some people, like your shoulders tighten and you clench down because you thought of something that felt scary there's usually some at least subtle physical body sensation, whether that's tightness, pain, heat, cold. There's so many different sensations. Whatever we experience in that child-specific moment we encode, and whatever position our body is in when we encode that memory now hold something called tensional memory. So whatever we were in, even if we were just kind of like, you know, running to grab something when that fear hit if I'm like this this physical body position can actually trigger that memory and trigger me back into that emotional state.

35:54 - Chase (Host) So it's almost like a physiological snapshot Correct Of the feeling, of the place, of the positioning, and anytime we might revisit that your body's like hey, last time we were here things weren't so great.

36:06 - Bizzie (Host) Yes, and maybe not even consciously thinking that, maybe even like a pass through. I mean, think about like how often you would do that. So many random times, right those not watching the video busy's kind of like I'm doing the robot, or robot?

36:19 yeah yeah, basically but essentially just the, that position of moving your arms like you would running right, where you're kind of like drawing elbows down to hips. There's so many ways that you would do that in your everyday life. Something as simple as that actually can start to trigger this flood of memory, trigger a nervous system response. And what's interesting is it goes both ways. So you could have a memory trigger physicality. You can also have it go the other way, where physicality then triggers the memory. Wow, because it's this whole closed loop system.

36:51 So when we're thinking about how memory right, because we're talking about language and we're talking about perception of reality Now we have to figure out, like, where do we put this memory piece in there? Because we've got all these subtle things agitating us throughout the day. Some are in our conscious field, others are happening far beneath the surface in the form of maybe tensional memory triggering something, or we hear a song. All of these are going to still go.

37:18 Imagine a funnel right, all of these different incoming stimuli or experiences are going to go back into this funnel and our brain still has to perceive them again. Right? So, no matter what, you never get past this filter because you literally you cannot perceive any sort of stimulus without it going through this filter, and that's why I just it baffles my mind that this is not considered to be the root of mental illness, because it absolutely is, and I feel like people have to know that. I just don't understand why we're not talking about it, because, ultimately, mental illness is a distorted perception of reality that then gives way to, in turn, distorted behavior, mechanisms, emotional states that are based not an objective truth, but in this sort of subjective mishmash of all the memories that we've included, in all the positions that we're passing through and the sounds that we're hearing, a mishmash.

38:13 - Chase (Host) Mishmash at best technical word. Yes, um, you kind of, were just hitting on it, but you know talking about how one of the most startling ideas in the book is that we can live an entire life reacting from an 8-year-old's belief system, a 3-year-old, a 12-year-old's belief system. So then my question is what's the first step to reclaiming the driver's seat from that inner child?

38:39 - Bizzie (Host) The first step is always going to be brain pattern mapping, because we have to know the what and we have to know the how. One way that I like to look at this if we're looking at more of a traditional either natural sciences or mental health approach, everything's now about labeling right. How many people do you know have ADHD, for example?

38:58 - Chase (Host) nowadays it's trending, now it's trending.

38:59 - Bizzie (Host) Adhd is so hot right now, so is autism actually.

39:02 - Chase (Host) Autism, neurodiversions, yeah.

39:05 - Bizzie (Host) So I mean, that's a whole other problem, but let's look at it just from the perspective of. Labels are trendy right now, which is a sad state of affairs. What happens in a more traditional mental health paradigm is that you get a label like ADHD, and I want you to now think of ADHD like a large country. So let's go with Russia, okay, russia's very large very large country.

39:33 So effectively getting that label is like saying, Chase, you have ADHD, You're here in Russia and then you're like, yeah, but where's healing? Well, we're not really sure that healing exists. We're going to teach you how to cope and adapt and manage. Accept your label. Healing, I mean, it may broadly be over here, but we don't know if it really exists. So you just have to stay in Russia and accept your fate and be primed by all these behaviors that are part of your label.

40:03 - Chase (Host) It sounds like something Russia would say.

40:06 - Bizzie (Host) So that's one paradigm. Okay, Then there's the brain pattern mapping paradigm, which is actually we can tell you your exact longitude and latitude on the map. And not only that I can tell you the exact longitude and latitude on the map. And not only that, I can tell you the exact longitude and latitude of you being completely healed. If you were to put it on a map way, number one, you're not ever going to get to a place that they're basically saying may not exist, and you also don't know where you are in the country. They've just placed you in a large country. If you know exactly where you are and you know exactly where healing is, you can get there pretty quickly. So first step is always the brain pattern mapping, because then we know exactly what we have to do to get you back to midline.

40:49 - Chase (Host) Is it really that simple, or is it? Is it? It sounds like just so short lived and oh, here's the solution. Um, I'm sure it's not easy work.

40:58 - Bizzie (Host) No, the work is not easy. So brain pattern mapping itself takes 20 minutes. So that's easy, that sounds pretty easy. We can demystify what, for many people, has taken 20, 30, 40 years of still having nobody understand or be able to describe in them. We can get to it in 20 minutes usually people are afraid. They're like it's so accurate that they're actually afraid.

41:20 - Chase (Host) Walk me through how? How can I get to a place? Um, what's? We're looking for metaphorically on a map of healing in 20 minutes.

41:30 - Bizzie (Host) So you can't get yourself to healing in 20 minutes, but within 20 minutes you would know exactly where your behavior set has prevented you from getting to healing. Therefore, we know how to reverse engineer the process to get you exactly to healed. I see so the process of getting to that healed state in my work takes between 16 and 20 weeks. Which big picture. If it takes four months to get you healed for the rest of your life, is that four months worth it? Absolutely.

42:00 - Chase (Host) I would say absolutely.

42:02 - Bizzie (Host) And I work with clients who are even 70s and 80s, and when they come to me like is it still worth it? I'm so old now. I always say to them I would rather live one day, five days one year with mental freedom than never at all. So even if you're 98, who cares? Experience mental freedom for the last two years before you. Peace out.

42:25 - Chase (Host) Yeah, this other aspect you talk about in your work around the science of belief and hijack perception. You mentioned the McGurk effect and perceptual set theory as evidence that our brains distort sensory input, and we've kind of been discussing this a bit, but directly. What does this mean for how much we can actually trust our own experiences?

42:51 - Bizzie (Host) This is going to be a tricky one for some people because on one hand, we want people to bolster self-trust. That's, self-trust and self-efficacy are typically the two biggest predictors of somebody reporting that they have a high quality of life. So on one hand, we want to bolster self-trust and self-efficacy but on the other hand, we want to make sure that a person is able to weed through or sift through their self-deceptive patterns so that they're not acting on faulty information and then impulsively driving toward that goal. Because if somebody has a high level of self-trust but they're deep in self-deception, that person could completely blow their life up. So there's that aspect of it which I would consider to be more behavior mechanism. Then there's more just the more pure perception of reality experience. Like, is Chase's hair brown right? Could there hypothetically be someone that calls it like a dark blonde?

43:53 - Chase (Host) Dirty, chestnut Dirty chestnut.

43:55 - Bizzie (Host) I don't like that one.

43:57 - Chase (Host) Dirty chestnut.

43:59 - Bizzie (Host) That sounds like something I don't want to know what it would be.

44:04 So somewhere between light brown, brown, dirty chestnut, something in here, that's all. It's a matter of perception, right? So on one hand, I do have an innately high level of self-trust. So if I look at your hair and I'm like, yeah, it's like brown, like pretty normal, like light brown, I'm not likely to question that, because I'm not likely to question myself anyways. But that's when it's coming to my would engage with a person. I'm always willing to be wrong. So there's perceiving a physical object, which is a little bit easier, because it's like tangible, it's concrete. We could all look at this, touch it, poke it, like what is this?

44:48 we would probably say more objective it's more objective because it exists in a three-dimensional space. This sort of perception is easier. It doesn't mean that it's still a slam dunk for everybody, by the way, which is even scarier, which even is mentioned in the McGurk effect, but ultimately this is going to be easier than trying to interpret an argument that takes place and what was said versus not said.

45:11 I don't know if this ever happened to you, but there've certainly been times where my husband has told me that I said something and I'm like I am 100% positive those words did not come out of my mouth. Oh yeah, who?

45:22 - Chase (Host) can relate to that. I feel like every couple can.

45:24 - Bizzie (Host) Right.

45:24 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and you make it out to be like am I crazy?

45:28 - Bizzie (Host) Right. So that's kind of the thing is, there's a very specific place on the left side of the brain pattern spectrum where I am, where I'm self-assured, and when it comes to perceiving like physical objects and stuff, I'm like, yeah, good, go, I'm very committed, I'm quick to take action, I'm not going to overthink it. But when it comes to interpersonal communication like that, I'm probably too much so like willing to be wrong. Like am I? Did I do something? Did I? I was like I could literally like if I were betting in Vegas, I would place a big bet on the fact that I did not say those words.

46:02 - Chase (Host) So it kind of sounds like self-deception is. Really, it comes down to this inner subconscious monologue, this, this very quick analysis that we go through of what to what level of risk of of being wrong or being questioned by others, or even questioning myself what level of trust do I have in and of myself that I'm willing to take on the choice I'm about to make, the judgment I'm going to make, the description I'm going to give?

46:54 - Bizzie (Host) And when it comes to other people it's a much to each other and it's just kind of passive, like every once in a while you look down at it, but it's still happening. You're, you're still taking in that visual stimulus, but you're not. You're paying attention to something else, you're distracted. That's a great analogy, because we're often distracted by what's happening in front of us, not realizing that our brain is actually subconsciously processing a bunch of things that we are blissfully unaware of. That is still, unfortunately, very much guiding our decisions and our behavior.

47:22 So this is really the crux of the problem is something that I call the paradox of self-understanding. Anyone who's ever been on a self-healing journey and understands the subjective nature of memory encoding you eventually hit this place, this inflection point, where you realize the more you seek to know yourself, the more you know nothing at all, and actually it can be both freeing and chaotic. You realize that really nothing is as stable and concrete as you really want to believe that it is. That can be both a freeing experience or that can also be a very destabilizing experience for some, and we make sure in brain pattern mapping to know which types of people, based on their brain pattern markers, need to slow their role into that process. Because if somebody already has a challenging time discerning the line between objective and subjective reality and perhaps does struggle with intrusive thoughts or suicidality, you have to be very careful about how you unravel these threads or these layers, because it can make somebody feel like they're going to lose it.

48:38 - Chase (Host) Oh my God, yeah, Because we make things.

48:39 - Bizzie (Host) We want things to be concrete because it makes us feel safe. Thus, self-deception is a way to control our outcome. But ultimately, the the ultimate level is to realize basically nothing's as concrete and stable as you want to believe that it is. And when you can let go of that desire for control, we can have more empathy for other people. We can kind of see through our own BS, learn how to poke holes in it and learn how to be a far more dynamic member of society rather than just be restricted into these loops.

49:11 - Chase (Host) Where I've landed on my self-healing journey personally is that I know nothing and nothing matters. Welcome back, isn't it nice, it's once you land on that, you're like it sounds. So it can sound maybe to some pretty bleak and just like dark, but it's the most freeing realizations I've ever had.

49:37 - Bizzie (Host) I agree with that Absolutely as more of a like a broad strokes understanding of how, like memory and perception works. I do think, though and I lay it out very definitively in the book and in my work with break method there is something very prescriptive that each person can do to get out of their pattern. So if you think of a brain pattern like a rut that has been developed for as many years as you've been old, it takes time to get out of that rut, because if you're 40, like I am, if you haven't done this work, that rut is very deep and trying to get out of it, your brain pattern fights like a virus to stay alive, and it will. Anytime you're kind of over the target zone or reaching that edge, we're about to have a breakthrough. A lot of times it will find a way to pull you back in.

50:29 - Chase (Host) And these are quite literally ruts, not metaphorically, and we're talking about like neural pathways like neural pathways. Yeah, so both like biochemical and metaphorical both, and we can create new neural pathways and new connections.

50:43 - Bizzie (Host) It takes work.

50:45 - Chase (Host) It's like you've got a train track that's been there forever, but if you want to start laying new ones, like you got to start steering right sometimes.

50:52 - Bizzie (Host) And herein lies the actual rewire work. So, once we understand where you are and we understand what essentially you'd have to pass through to get back to the middle, we know exactly what you have to do, when, how, how to dismantle the systems of language that are preventing you from being able to do that. So, instead of saying, chase, don't do that, do this. We're altering how you're perceiving reality, so you don't even see the previous choice, you're only aware of the latter choice, which is why, eventually, people come to me and they're like this is literally like magic, like how does it happen.

51:30 How does this work? Why doesn't everybody know about this? So ideally, we'd love to get as many people as possible to know about this, because it is possible and it is much more linear than I think people want to believe that it is. I think we're led to believe that healing is this painful loop that may take years or may never actually even happen, revisiting the pain and the mistakes and the learning and the unlearning and the doing and the redoing.

51:56 - Chase (Host) It's just until you finally become a new. You have a new relationship with it.

51:59 - Bizzie (Host) Yes, and giving too much weight to our narrative and to our feelings without actually poking holes and questioning why they're there and how that's impacting our behavior, cycles that we're perpetuating. I'll say you can fast track it and just do some ketamine.

52:19 - Chase (Host) ketamine therapy, I'll say ketamine therapy has just pierced so many fricking holes, it's like fast tracking. So much of your work what you're talking about here. Yeah, again, personally speaking.

52:29 - Bizzie (Host) Yeah, I think I'm pretty conflicted about this one because there I can, I have select clients where it makes sense. So an example would be for certain clients where their intrusive thoughts and anxiety have been so peaked for so many years that now it's kind of this cycle where they are never able to activate their parasympathetic and they're just completely run down. Ketamine therapy can give them the experience of feeling like they rested for a year in like a session. So I understand the benefits of that over the longterm, because it gave their body and brain enough of a break to actually not be destabilized so that maybe the anxiety is there but it's more dull or they're able to manage it better.

53:16 - Chase (Host) The possibility of not of that not weighing on you all the time you get to experience for even a brief moment speaking personally, and it completely changes your perspective of what healing can do, what it can feel like and even just that it is possible because you're so far removed from there's no way I'm ever going to not feel this weight, this pain, this pressure, this memory, this belief system. But, you get a glimpse of of that existing differently.

53:41 - Bizzie (Host) Which, for that reason, I do with that cluster of clients. I understand the application in general. I think that the way that it's been marketed, it's presented in a way that can have a bypassing effect for people where it feels like the easy way out and big picture will. Will it, or could it give you a break to feel like you've reset? Yes, that could totally be the case. I don't think that it will fundamentally cognitively rewire the patterns themselves that are now likely to pop back up again, needing eventually another rest.

54:23 - Chase (Host) Yeah, again if not done with, like, with a therapeutic approach. Um, I mean cause there is the whole incredible levels of neuroplasticity and neural crosstalk that happens, but again in my and I've talked a lot about this on the show like you have those physiological things that happen, but without the integration, without the therapy, without the work, you're just kind of like left in the wild wild west again and like you literally can't quite comprehend all of that. More importantly, you don't know what to do with this new information. You see the world again, that example of the railroad tracks. You see the world of infinite new railroad tracks, which in and of itself is overwhelming, like it's relief, it's healing, it's possibility. But if you don't have a guide, don't have a Sherpa, so to speak, or a therapist, someone helping you, then you could be almost just as lost or confused or in pain as before.

55:21 - Bizzie (Host) And in select instances potentially more. There's a large subsection of the human population that I would say should be very cautious with medicine ceremonies, anything hallucinogenic, anything that can intentionally cause a dissociation on purpose to give a break, which is essentially what's happening. So I understand that its effects can be profound. I think the bigger thing for me is that there's a process called neurocognition, which is, I think, what my work really centers around. So this is where your perception of reality generates language and then in turn, influences behavior. Big picture I have seen and worked with many clients who've done ketamine-assisted therapy. Where it's not completely altering the language structures of their brain. They're getting this sense of relief and like hope, for example. But relief and hope are not going to fundamentally change your neurocognitive processes.

56:19 - Chase (Host) It's not a language focused experience.

56:22 - Bizzie (Host) But I think ultimately, like pairing something like that together super profound, my thing there would be and it's the same way I feel about EMDR I think there's a specific order that things would need to be done. So I don't ever recommend for my clients to do EMDR prior to break. You would do EMDR after break method. When we're going through the initial phases of that four month experience, we need to be able to actually feel and experience where these pieces are connected and something like ketamine assisted therapy and also EMDR can actually sever those connections.

56:57 Because that's what's trying to give you relief is that it's it's basically changing the wiring of those things or severing them we actually need you to grab the whole web so that we can map it and understand it, so then we can pull it out at one time and if someone's done the other thing prior, as you're trying to go through it, it'll almost feel like you're getting stuck, like there's an echo of something or you know that there's something else there, but it's slightly disconnected, detached or dull. That makes it harder for us to do our job.

57:27 So I do think that kind of the sweet spot is break and then EMDR or ketamine-assisted therapy, unless, of course, there are plenty of people that I think are absolutely candidates for ketamine-assisted therapy. I just do want to call out that it can make that sort of connection a little bit more dull or echoey.

57:45 - Chase (Host) I totally see where you're coming from and agree yeah, what you're kind of talking about here reminds me of a quote I found in preparation for this, and I think ultimately, what we're talking about with self-deception is to get down to it, it's just like we're liars, we're lying to ourself. It's just to what level are we aware of the lie and are we going to choose to try to stop the lie? I found this great quote from Jordan Peterson on self-deception.

58:07 - Bizzie (Host) He says, quote you don't want to lie to yourself, because you program yourself falsely and then you automatically see what isn't there, and then the world will slap you in the face continuously and you will think, oh my God, the world is such a pathological place, when the truth of the matter is, you keep running into things that you refuse to see. Mic drop, agree. I know there's that sort of social media trend the pass, smash, pass. Oh yeah, smash, no, smash is the good one. Smash, smash that one. That one's a good one.

58:46 - Chase (Host) Let me see where else I want to go here Kind of getting towards the end of our conversation. Let me see where else I want to go here Kind of getting towards the end of our conversation. Let's kind of begin to land a plane here with clarity, hope, call to action. Even you say self-deception is a quote, self-sustaining loop. What does it look like to finally break that loop and how can people tell the difference between real growth?

59:12 - Bizzie (Host) and just another layer of the lie. There's a part of the book called rebellion zones. The latter portion of the book are each broken up into rebellion zones for each brain pattern type. There's five primary brain pattern types and there's subtypes. From within that I believe it's at the beginning of chapter eight, there's a QR code so people can go do their brain pattern mapping so that they can know what their nine markers are. To read the rest of the books so that it's very focused on what you need to be paying attention to personally Although I will remind people all these other brain pattern types are in your life somewhere. So it behooves you to read the books that you understand what's driving them, because when we understand someone's brain pattern type, we understand their underlying motivations. Some of us are aware of our underlying motivations and some of us are unaware of our underlying motivations. Going back to that Jordan Peterson quote, some people are completely blind to it, although it's very much the driver of their behavior.

01:00:10 - Chase (Host) Is there one that I hate to use the word better? But, is there one that's better than the other, so to speak, in terms of?

01:00:15 - Bizzie (Host) like the work that's cut out for us. So let's, we'll define better in a couple specific ways. So reported quality of life is something that I would consider better. Right, if someone is saying like, yeah, my life's pretty great, yeah, things are good, like I would probably attach that to better. Yeah.

01:00:35 - Chase (Host) Sure fair.

01:00:36 - Bizzie (Host) Because it's a tricky one, right Like happiness, like people that chase happiness, for example, don't report a high quality of life. So is happiness the metric? I think probably not.

01:00:47 - Chase (Host) Yeah, better than what.

01:00:48 - Bizzie (Host) So I'm going to go on highest reported quality of life and even with some of those things like success, the feeling of being aligned with purpose, all those things. There's a very specific section, which I will. I'll send you a screenshot of it so that you can maybe put it with the show notes the middle left side of the spectrum. There's a square there that has a crossover with two subtypes. This is where the majority of the top one percent are the top entrepreneurs and the people that report the highest quality of life wow, no way and it's a very small number of the population pretty interesting venn diagram right there.

01:01:27 Yeah, that overlap there's also something with the brain pattern spectrum called the mirror effect. So if you because the spectrum folds in half if you were to find somebody who's basically the equal opposite on the right side some of their behaviors out in the world may look similar you might say with an untrained eye like this person is just like this person, oh yeah, like these guys. You guys are so much alike.

01:01:50 - Chase (Host) And then they meet oil and water and they're like no bro, we're not alike at all perception of reality is what's different with each of these two.

01:01:59 - Bizzie (Host) So, while their behavior markers may be similar or even unfold in the same exact order, where how they're perceiving reality and then, in turn, making decisions and prioritizing things and they're undermining motivations, can be completely antagonistic to each other. This is one of the misses, I think, in how substance use disorder is treated. Well, you guys are both opiate addicts, so here do it this way yeah, same diagnosis equals the same pathway of treatment way to work, yeah and this is not true.

01:02:29 You have to understand the underlying motivations, the the dangling carrots, so to speak. Right, if you know someone's underlying motivations, you know what carrots to dangle and in what order, and also what language you have to dismantle to get them out of their pattern of views. So you can't treat these two people like they're the same, and even in mental health I see people all the time who have they're the same, and even in mental health I see people all the time who have like maybe the same diagnosis, total opposites of each other. How can that be? Well, their mental health, for the most part, is a process of observation. If I, as a human being, have to observe you, chase, how am I going to get out of my own personal perception of reality and my own subjective filters? No matter how much training you have, you can't completely remove that. So I'm now having to perceive and observe you. I'm taking notes on what I think I'm seeing Sounds pretty great to me. What if I'm having a bad day? What if you remind me of somebody who did something to me when I was in middle school? All of those things are going to come through this little funnel and I'm going to be taking notes.

01:03:33 Definitely bipolar, is that true? That's why we go at it from the exact opposite side. We in Break Method have a clear understanding Our senses can't be inherently trusted. Our senses can't be inherently trusted. We have to go with the data, and the historical data of these 200 points is actually what tells us who you are and how you behave in the world, with 98.3% accuracy. So I don't need you to tell me your life story. I don't need to know whether you have mommy wounds or daddy wounds. I need to know these 200 historical data points and I can tell you everything there is to know about you, because we are a byproduct of nurture, almost exclusively.

01:04:16 - Chase (Host) It makes me think. Is it possible, then, for us, collectively, to ever get on the same playing field of reality?

01:04:27 - Bizzie (Host) With each other.

01:04:29 - Chase (Host) Yeah, with humanity, with our peers, with our community, with our world and the world. Is the same experience of reality ever going to be possible, or is it always, only ever dependent upon perception?

01:04:43 - Bizzie (Host) In Break Method I talk a lot about co-reconciling reality. This is going to be a function of learning new communication skills and understanding somebody else's underlying motivation. So it's almost like you can correct the distortion. So it's like my brain pattern type gives me a specific glasses prescription. If I know what brain pattern type you are, I know what distorted lens you have, so I can remove that from both of these things and we can actually co-reconcile reality. It changes relationships overnight. It's the cause of most relationship conflict and that is part of the process that we do in Break Method. Is you actually learn to understand what drives everybody else, where you clearly stop taking things personally, you stop feeling slighted by people because you understand what drives them, even if they don't know what drives them. So your empathy increases significantly. Your patience and ability to actually step forward and collaborate and co-reconcile reality goes up. When you have those things, you have a drastically different world, and that's the work that I'm trying to do. I want to change the world. Chase.

01:05:50 - Chase (Host) I'm trying to. I always joke, I'm trying to do. I want to change the world Chase. I'm trying to. I always joke, I'm trying to change the world.

01:05:54 - Bizzie (Host) I'm trying to take over the world and change it, at the same time Trying to take over the world and make it better at the same time.

01:05:57 - Chase (Host) But like Dr Not-So-Evil Dr Shaka, well, I think overall, I mean, this conversation has just been a peek through the keyhole of your work in this book and it will all, of course, be linked down in the show notes and video description box for everybody watching and kind of like the biggest takeaway I had in, you know, my notes here is just really boils down to your brain lies, your brain lies, but it like that's okay and that's what it's supposed to do, out of a level of safety, first and foremost, because if we were only ever the ones in the driver's seat of keeping ourselves literally physically safe in the world, we wouldn't last a week, maybe. So it's just a matter of, I think, recognizing that and respecting it. Maybe. So it's just a matter of, I think, recognizing that and respecting it, but then also going okay, through my understanding, through my levels of awareness, through pulling that thread, through my willingness to accept my perception of reality, I can actually get it there's like a secondary driver's seat.

01:07:09 - Bizzie (Host) That is there that most of us don't know about. Learning how to poke holes in your faulty logic and how to ask the right questions will change your life, and most people don't know how to ask the right questions, and this is why I kind of subtly brought up CBT. For example, when you are emotionally activated, you can't ask your brain open-ended questions or emotionally driven questions, because the whole point is you cannot be logical when you're in that state, which are very specific language architecture questions that dismantle your emotional response, disrupt it, with a very specific series of sequential logical questions so that you can be in the present moment and actually respond intuitively, because that's where I think humanity is supposed to be and we've lost touch with that because we're so instinctively driven, which is all like more of a fear-based survival pattern, and not in the present.

01:08:10 And not in the present, and not in the present, they're only, interestingly enough, inside of this entrepreneurial square. Those are some of the most present brain pattern types. Virtually everybody else is either very future or past oriented.

01:08:26 Yeah ruminating on the past or worrying about the future. The people inside of the square tend to be more present, more impulsive, adhd, potentially more stubborn, hyper-independent, some. One of the things that I actually find the most interesting is that there's a very specific the inside of the square, I told you, there's kind of like the two subsections, the right side of that. Frequently people misunderstand what drives them and they get called a narcissist, although actually their underlying driver is to do everything for everybody. So they're out there failing somebody and making them feel like they're self-centered, because they're actually being selfless for other people and that light is like getting robbed from the other person. So this is something that I feel like I've helped correct a lot in relationships where a person on the receiving end and, by the way, people tend to end up in relationships where one person's on the right and one person's on the left.

01:09:25 - Chase (Host) That's probably kind of just human nature right Absolutely, and I think it creates polarity.

01:09:31 - Bizzie (Host) It serves kind of just human nature right, absolutely. And I think it creates polarity. It serves many purposes. One of the things that I think we experience is the feeling of polarity. Where's the line between polarity and toxicity? For some people it's, uh, it's gray. Then if you go a little bit further than that, then you've got kind of masculine, feminine energetic dynamics right. All of these things kind of play into a mix here. When two opposite pattern types end up together, it creates something called symbiotic dysfunction. So exactly the way that I need to be triggered our favorite word for me to carry out my cycle is what you do to me, and then when I'm reacting to that, then I give you your fix. So we basically are each other's dealers for, subconsciously, the pattern that we're seeking over and over again. Great analogy.

01:10:14 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

01:10:15 - Bizzie (Host) And it's an easy source. We can get it whenever we want it. And then sometimes and this is truly the case when one person in the coupling heals and the other person doesn't, they may escalate or agitate to try to pull you back to the way it used to be, or they might start trying to get that same toxicity from somebody else, Because people are addicted to this at the foundation level and this pattern doesn't without the right tools and without the right sequence. It doesn't want to let it go because it really believes that it's keeping you safe, but ultimately all it's doing is it's saying here are the confines of your cave and inside of this cave I know how to keep you safe.

01:10:59 But for most people, the walls of that cave are like rejection, not feeling like enough, feeling like they have to anticipate their next move so that something bad doesn't happen to the other shoe, doesn't drop. Your brain pattern keeps you in this cave and makes you fear anything outside of the cave when really, like freedom is outside of the cave. It's just there's so many unknowns that you'd have to follow breadcrumbs to get out of the cave. That if people don't know how to do and they don't have a flashlight or they don't have a sherpa. They're just going to stay in their cave and say that that's their authentic self or it's my genetics, isn't?

01:11:36 - Chase (Host) uh, is it descartes? I think. Who the ancient philosopher who talks about that? Really, the reality is a perception. You know we're in a cave just watching like the shadows on the wall, when actually, like the real reality, is the light outside the outside right.

01:11:51 - Bizzie (Host) That's just the projection.

01:11:53 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's a beautiful analogy uh, yeah, I think, was it descartes someone much older, and why? I'm not good at that kind of stuff actually I want to wrap on a quote before I get to my final question uh, from mel gibson, none other love mel.

01:12:06 - Bizzie (Host) I'm so glad that you're Mel.

01:12:07 - Chase (Host) From his interview with Joe Rogan actually, where he's talking about self-deception. He says it's your second thought and your first action that you're actually responsible for. Your first thought throw it away. That's where self-deception lies.

01:12:25 - Bizzie (Host) Smash Totally accurate.

01:12:27 - Chase (Host) Pretty damn good Mel.

01:12:29 - Bizzie (Host) I love. Mel and I will say that interview. I don't watch all joe rogan episodes. I'm not well. That's my husband, my husband loves loves a joe. I mean, I love joe rogan too, don't get me wrong, but that episode in particular. As a believer myself, I feel like mel gibson's interview actually did more people brought. Probably more people to Jesus than some of the actual religious people that have gone on there.

01:12:55 - Chase (Host) I haven't seen the whole thing.

01:12:56 - Bizzie (Host) He's just got such a like potent, experiential way of talking about his relationship with Jesus. That is a major draw. It had to have planted seeds of curiosity in people instead of it being dogmatic or legalistic or arguing Cause. I think a lot of times people go on Joe Rogan, it's more of this argument about its validity or more the legalistic argument. Mel's was just experience and heart and love. So if anyone is you know, jesus curious, it's a good one to watch.

01:13:31 - Chase (Host) I have to check it out. I mean he's uh. What he's done in the world is is pretty damn impressive. I love his movies and his work and he's any, any clips or anything I've ever seen of him. I mean he definitely is not somebody I should say he really, I think thinks a lot about what he says and he clearly has a lot of like personal research and experience and he definitely seems to speak from the heart. Yeah.

01:13:58 - Bizzie (Host) Yeah, he's deep All right.

01:14:00 - Chase (Host) So the final question all of this is meant to help me and my audience bring awareness into a key areas of our life and wellbeing, to help move us forward in that area and then collectively to live a life ever forward. I say so Busy? I don't think I. I don't know if I asked you this last time. I don't know if this was EF protocol back in 2019 yet but ever forward.

01:14:23 What does that mean to you, those two words. If I were to ask you, how do you live a life ever forward? What does that mean to you?

01:14:28 - Bizzie (Host) Prioritize momentum and action. I talk a lot in my work about how. For me it's more of a spiritual thing. The opposite of control is surrender, and I think where we are served best in our lives is trusting some sort of higher power whatever that is for you and being like a water on a water slide and just trusting. I don't know what turns this water slide is going to take, but I literally just have to get myself on the water slide and start going because I'm somehow going to get spit out on the other side. And I think so many people get stuck in their freeze response and they don't want to take a step until they feel like they're confident about it. But that's not actually how confidence is created. You have to commit and be courageous to experience confidence.

01:15:20 So ever forward is taking action and practicing what I call controlled surrender, like I could slam on the brakes and try to prevent or anticipate or be hypervigilant, but ultimately like why? Why am I going to play God? I have to learn how to trust in this life and keep taking action and not to go, little kid, but in frozen. All you can do is the next right thing there's. There's some deep truth to that All you can do is the next right thing. You just have to stay in momentum. It's much easier, I think, for spiritual corrections to take place on your behalf.

01:16:01 If you're moving, if you're stuck, what are you going to do? So, even if you make mistakes? I've made so many mistakes in my life. One of the things I know for sure is I many mistakes in my life. One of the things I know for sure is I have always lived my life in this ever forward capacity and I have a ton of success and life evidence of life to show for it kids, marriage. You lose out on that stuff if you're stuck, standing on the edge of something, afraid of what's gonna happen. So go out there, collect evidence of your life. Oh, go out there collect evidence.

01:16:31 - Chase (Host) Live your life. Ooh, go out there collect evidence. I love that. I always appreciate every interpretation. There's never a right or wrong answer. Thank you, and that's a wrap for part two. Thank you, everybody for watching. Make sure to check out Busy's work. Get her book. Everything will be linked for you in the show notes in the video description box. Get her book. Everything will be linked for you in the show notes in the video description box. Her first interview will also be there and did I leave anything out?

01:16:59 I don't think so, all right, thank you so much, my pleasure For more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwardradio.com