EFR 874: Why You Should Consider Stopping Drinking and the Rise of the Alcohol-Free Lifestyle with Dr. Brooke Scheller

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Brooke (Guest) We get really, really tied up in the kind of polar spectrums of alcohol of like. Well, if I'm not drinking every single day and I haven't lost anything and you know I'm not homeless and living on the streets, then I don't have a problem with alcohol. What's really important and happening now a lot in the Sober Curious space is people are tuning into how alcohol is affecting their mental health, their physical health, their relationships, their career, their finances. You don't have to have a quote unquote problem to stop drinking. You can stop drinking at any time. People are taking breaks and they're realizing that.

00:40 Wow, but I am feeling more energy. I can go to a social event without drinking and actually enjoy myself. I'm a doctor of nutrition. I have a bachelor's, a master's and a doctorate in nutrition, and it really wasn't until my own sobriety experience where I started to realize the true impacts that alcohol was having, as a nutritionist who looks at not only what food we're putting in our body but anything that we're putting in our body that we metabolize, and that includes alcohol. I'm Dr Brooke Scheller, the author of how to Eat to Change how you Drink, and I am back on Ever Forward Radio.

01:14 - Chase (Host) All right, fam, listen up, let's talk gut health, because if you're like me, you've had those moments. You eat a big meal, you're feeling good and then boom, you're bloated, sluggish and wondering why your pants suddenly hate you. I've been there and I thought, okay, maybe I need a detox, maybe I need to cut out everything. Fun right. But then I found something that actually works Peaks Puerh tea. I'm not kidding when I say this stuff has really changed the game. I love starting my mornings with green Puerh and let me tell you, it's like flipping a switch on that gut health game. I get this calm, focused energy that doesn't come with the caffeine jitters or that dreaded afternoon crash. And even after meals, this is where I reach for black poo. It's my go-to. It's smooth, earthy and leaves me feeling light and balanced instead of like I just swallowed a brick. But here's the kicker Poor tea isn't just tea. It's fermented, which means it's loaded with living probiotics and prebiotics that actually support my gut health. It's like a reset button for my microbiome. And the best part is, with Peak, the science backs it up. The antioxidants in this tea help with digestion, energy metabolism and can even help with improving skin. Yeah, tea that makes you glow. Who knew right? So now let's talk quality, because not all tea is created equal. Peak's pure tea is made from wild harvested from 250-year-old tea trees, triple toxin screened and my favorite part, because I'm always on the go it dissolves instantly in hot or cold water. No tea bags, no steeping, just instant gut healing magic. Now, because you listen to Everford Radio, peak is hooking you up. You can get 20% off for life yes, for life, plus a really cool free rechargeable frother and glass beaker when you grab their Puerh bundle. It's an exclusive offer just for my Everford Radio listeners, that's you. And listen up, because not only are you getting a great discount, but you got a guarantee. Peak, they know you're going to love it. I know you're going to love it. They're backing it up with a 90-day money-back guarantee so you can try it risk-free. Head to peaklifecom, slash everforward to grab yours. That's P-I-Q-U-E-L-I-F-E dot com. Slash everforward to get your deal now. Your gut and your energy will thank you, hey. What's up everybody and welcome back to Ever Forward Radio.

03:47 I'm your host, army veteran wellness entrepreneur and certified health coach, chase Schooning, and I am back on the airwaves with Dr Brooke Scheller. She was here not that long ago in episode 785, which I'll have linked for you down in the show notes. You got to check it out. But this episode we're kind of picking right up where we left off from that one and we're actually highlighting a lot of the questions you all asked over on YouTube, youtubecom, just search Everford radio. You can find us there. Brooke came back in the studio, so if you want to check out the video, it's there for you as well. I'll have this all linked for you down in the show notes.

04:19 But a lot of key questions from you all asking about, you know, should I give up alcohol? How can nutrition, taking, supplements, movement, help with going alcohol free? Just so many amazing questions that, again, thank you, are just so honest and I think a lot of us are curious about this. Sober curious, or what could a life without alcohol, less alcohol, really look like? Why should I even consider it? And Brooke was gracious enough to sit back down with me to dive deep and to directly serve your needs, like I share in the last episode and this one, while my alcohol consumption has radically decreased over the years, it is something that I just have chosen to not cut out entirely and look as someone pushing 40.

05:03 Now. Even a glass of wine or a couple beers over the weekend, I feel way more than I used to and it's just not fun. I've got a lot to do. I want to work out, I want to be active, I want to be on. I've got a son now and so lately if I'm having literally a drink, if I'm having any alcohol, the drink before I drink is Z-Biotics.

05:28 Z-biotics is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic that helps you feel better the day after drinking. It's not a sketchy hangover cure, it's actually backed by science. It's super simple. You just drink it before you drink alcohol. It's the drink before you drink and it helps your body break down the byproduct of alcohol that messes with you the next day. So easy I keep them in my backpack, keep them in the pantry. Anywhere I think I'm going to have a glass of wine or alcohol or a night out Boom, I know Z Biotics has my back.

06:02 And so if this is you and if you feel like maybe you're not ready or want to cut out alcohol entirely, even if you're cutting down, but you're a high performer like I am I know that you are because you're listening to the show and you just want to maybe just feel as best as possible even while enjoying that glass of alcohol, then I would really encourage you to check out Z Biotics. In fact you can try it. If you don't love it, they got a money back guarantee. You can get 10% off. Just head to zbioticscom slash ever forward 10. That's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-Scom. Slash ever forward one zero. Or use code ever forward 10, ever forward one zero at checkout to get 10% off. So again, if you're having a few too many or just want to make sure you're feeling as best as possible the next day with any alcohol consumption, like me, then try Z-Biotics, the drink before you drink.

06:55 - Brooke (Guest) In fact, alcohol is technically considered a macronutrient because it provides caloric density.

07:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, they call it the fourth macronutrient, they call it the fourth, macronutrient Carbs, proteins, fats and alcohol.

07:06 - Brooke (Guest) And so, if we think about it in that way, it's a nutrition topic, and when I started to think about it that way, when the alcohol left my body and my brain had started to clear, I realized, wow, we're really not talking about the impacts that alcohol is having on our health, our nutrition, our wellness, and so it really became my mission to help educate on that more especially because a lot of us aren't just drinking a little bit of alcohol, we're drinking fair amounts of alcohol.

07:34 - Chase (Host) Enough to get intoxicated. Enough to get intoxicated Affect more than just like our digestion, but things like our liver or even cognition and brain health.

07:41 - Brooke (Guest) Well, and you bring up a really good point there, because I think a lot of us go to the liver as being the main site that's affected by alcohol, but that is just one of many. Alcohol affects every organ system in the body and that's not something that's spoken about. You know, on the broader scale, Good point.

07:58 Yeah, and so you know it affects the brain, it affects the gut, the microbiome, it affects our hormones. You know, as a new dad, you can probably appreciate that there are studies that show that alcohol impacts fertility, and if a woman is drinking or a man is drinking, that can impact how our body is, you know, essentially conceiving, and so it really affects everything and has been really tied to a lot of these different areas, and so I really believe it's just so important to think about as part of the broader health and wellness discussion.

08:32 - Chase (Host) Pretty alarming statistic I found when getting ready for part two, here with you where we are here in 2025 in America 49% of Americans reported planning on drinking less alcohol in 2025. And that's actually up almost 10% from last year. Why do you think that statistic in particular is increasing?

08:52 - Brooke (Guest) Well, I think it's a combination of things. I think one is we're talking more about alcohol's impact on health. We're seeing things like in January of this year, the US Surgeon General released a new advisory showing alcohols linked to cancer, and what you and I were discussing before we hopped on is that they actually show a statistic in that advisory that only 45% of Americans are informed that alcohol is directly linked to these seven different types of cancer. So there's a lot of these global discussions happening about it, not just in the US, but the World Health Organization released a statement about it in 2022. Canada changed their alcohol recommendations, their government recommendations, and we're seeing a lot of it in the media. So you've seen New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, washington Post. There's a lot of these big the media. So you've seen New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, washington Post. There's a lot of these big media outlets that are covering these shifts in alcohol use as well as these health impacts that we're seeing linked together.

09:57 So I think it's a combination of people wanting, maybe to pursue less alcohol from a health perspective, but also there's this acceptability around it that's happening now. There's this open discussion about sober curiosity. There's a huge amount of non-alcoholic beverages hitting the market, and so it's, I think, easier than ever to quit or cut back, and that's an exciting thing. You know, I think it's years ago. If you were the only one not drinking at a party, people would be like, oh, come on, have a drink. And now people are curious. I just said to you that I was at a bachelorette party a few weeks ago. Um, the only one not drinking in Vegas, uh, at a bachelorette party in Vegas with nine women and I'm the only one not drinking.

10:43 And that's not hard for me, because you know I'm happy to not drink. It's my thing and everybody knows that, but I show up with a non-alcoholic drink and everyone's going what's that? Ooh, can I try it Right? So there's an interest in this as well, even in people who are consuming alcohol still.

11:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I've even noticed. You know, like I shared with you last year, I currently have not decided to cut out entirely alcohol from my life. Every year, hell, every month it just becomes less and less and less and less. I've noticed that alcohol affects me, and I think I'm not the only one. You know, even just a beer, a glass of wine affects me, the way that several beers and several glasses of wine used to, and so it's just like a I'd rather not feel that way kind of thing.

11:28 But I've noticed maybe this is just an LA thing, but as I go to events or even like certain places of business, um, if there is a bar, if there are drinks to be had, and if I am asking for an alcoholic version, I feel like the tables have turned. I feel like I'm kind of getting like oh, you want like a drink, drink. Oh, you want tequila? Oh, okay, you know, we have other options too. And all that to say, I think the culture has shifted tremendously to where, thankfully so, no one has to feel pressured or some kind of way to make the choice that they want to make, without concern of scrutiny or peer pressure or anything else. And also it's kind of nice to know that the choice I want to make is backed by the masses. You know, we all kind of like being liked or like, you know, doing what everyone else is doing, kind of thing Right.

12:19 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, and I tell a lot of clients now again, you used to get this pressure from other people if you weren't drinking, and now people are. They're asking wait, okay, you haven't been drinking. How have you been feeling? Oh, can I try that non-alcoholic drink? Can I try that mocktail? So there's this really open-minded, beautiful thing that's happening societally around it, Whereas it's not as much the rigorous kind of perspective on. You know, you're either drinking or you're not drinking. I think now it's so much easier to not drink and have an option that isn't just a soda water or a Coke, for example, and so it's really, I think, just a great way that things are opening up for people to change their experience with alcohol and the societal expectations around it.

13:07 - Chase (Host) And honestly, they taste great. I keep at home and hell here in the studio.

13:11 - Brooke (Guest) I saw your mocktails.

13:14 - Chase (Host) Non-alcoholic beer I mean, shout out to swa is one of my favorite ones, and uh, athletic brewing makes a great 0.002% IPA beer.

13:26 - Brooke (Guest) And I think those beers are are really great Like they taste like a regular beer.

13:29 - Chase (Host) It's a great IPA beer.

13:31 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, and these are great alternatives for someone who's thinking about cutting back, just even substituting in a uh, athletic brewing for you know, your standard beer. And I used to say to people too if you're nervous about people asking, put a koozie around it because people, as long as you have a drink in your hand, a lot of times people don't really care If it looks like a beer, sounds like a beer, people just assume it's a beer. Exactly, exactly.

13:53 - Chase (Host) All right Now. So I want to jump into some amazing questions and comments that we're going to kind of put a spin on. Some of them are comments and we're going to kind of formulate a question. We're making some assumptions here, what people might really be asking outside of the actual hard questions. But again, this is coming from episode 785 of your podcast last year. On youtube you don't see the episode number but I'll have it linked for you guys in the video description box. This person writes 22 days sober exercise every day, healthy diet, taking multivitamins, omega threes as supplements and educating myself on mental health. I've never felt so alive before. Didn't even think it was even possible to feel like this. I'm not going back. So the question there I think we can make is how can nutrition, taking supplements, movement, help with going alcohol free or staying off of alcohol?

14:46 - Brooke (Guest) movement help with going alcohol free or staying off of alcohol. Well, first I want to comment on this person being 22 days sober and realizing how good they feel and maybe how trapped they were with alcohol before. It doesn't take very long to have your mind clear from that. A couple of weeks really is enough to allow you to kind of think very differently. Your brain is now working a little bit more efficiently. Your neurons are firing without alcohol kind of holding you back, and so I think it's really interesting just to point out there the fact that 22 days is enough to realize that you feel good without it and that you don't want to go back.

15:22 Yeah, amazing, just the testament of that. So I just want to point that out. So I talk a lot about supplements in the book. I'm a huge proponent of supplements and very strategic supplementation. I'm also a really big fan of having testing done micronutrient testing and seeing where we're deficient, because nutrient deficiencies in general are really really highly overlooked.

15:45 I run full nutrient panels on a lot of my one-on-one clients and 100% of them have a deficiency somewhere. That could be in the B vitamins, it could be vitamin C, it could be some of the minerals like magnesium. The statistic is said that it's somewhere around 70% of the population is magnesium deficient. It's one of those nutrients that we used to get a lot through. Food has been depleted somewhat in the soil, so there's kind of a food issue there. But it's also depleted when we drink alcohol, as most of the nutrients are.

16:17 This is a piece that I absolutely love talking about, because it does not escape me that these nutrients that are depleted by alcohol are also the same ones that make us have a good mood and make us feel energy, that make us feel like we can focus, and so magnesium we'll use as an example.

16:39 Magnesium is the body's relaxing mineral. If we're deficient, we will struggle with relaxation. Well, what do we use alcohol for? We use it to relax, so this is one of the supplements that I use often in clients who are coming in or or folks who joined my programs and they're looking for that support and helping with relaxation. Uh, sleep as well, which is another one that people use alcohol for often to help them fall asleep, and so optimizing nutrients in the post-alcohol world is a really, really helpful way to feel better, faster. In fact, there's some folks too that you know, when they first cut out alcohol, they feel kind of yucky, they feel really depleted, they feel really tired, and that could be because of certain nutrient deficiencies that depleted they feel really tired, and that could be because of certain nutrient deficiencies that are causing them to feel that way.

17:29 - Chase (Host) And magnesium is actually something that I use and a lot of people use for sleep. So calm, relaxation, sleep. It's funny I haven't quite heard it that clearly that distinction made of a lot of the things that we use for you use alcohol for are actually what we're draining out of our body. So no wonder if we put them back in we're going to kind of go oh, like I don't need alcohol, I don't need this thing to help me relax, and Omega three is another great example.

17:53 - Brooke (Guest) Omega three is important for brain health and cognition, and it is depleted when we drink alcohol a lot of the population another one that we're not getting enough of and so it can be important to supplement for most people, but when we are post-alcohol it can also. There's a study that shows that it helps with minimizing alcohol cravings, and magnesium no uh omega-3, excuse me Okay.

18:17 So these are. They're really potent in terms of what they can do in the post-alcohol world, and there are some really simple ones that I talk about in the book, like magnesium, omega-3s, optimizing B vitamin levels and things like that. B vitamins very critical for energy, but also for mood and what's. Another reason we drink is if we have anxiety or depression, and so if we can restore those nutrients that support dopamine production and serotonin production, we can then hopefully feel better, so that we aren't looking for a drink.

18:52 - Chase (Host) Speaking of the healthy fats, are you familiar with C15?

18:56 - Brooke (Guest) I am a little familiar with C15.

19:04 - Chase (Host) I have no science to back this up other than my personal experience, but I've actually been supplementing with C15, which my audience you probably heard me talk about fatty 15. That's a brand that I take. Uh, it's this incredible essential fatty acid that it's about three to four times more potent at dosage than traditional mega three supplements, um, or just mega threes in general. I'm curious if I've been taking this now daily for over a year, maybe a year and a half, and I'm wondering if, having that elevated levels of essential fatty acids in my diet but in my brain, um, if that's contributing to my just natural interest and decline in alcohol.

19:40 - Brooke (Guest) It may be because essential fatty acids, the omega-3s, form kind of a side. One of the challenges with a lot of the omega-3 supplements on the market is they're actually quite low in omega-3s and so also because supplements aren't very readily. What's the word I'm looking for?

20:02 - Chase (Host) Regulated.

20:02 - Brooke (Guest) They're not regulated, thank you, so that we might be thinking we're getting 500 milligrams, but it's cut with some other type of oil, right, and so we want to look for something that is more potent, that has a higher amount of omega-3s. I usually look for a 1,600, 2,000 milligram omega-3, which they're a little more expensive, but they're going to be more effective, and so that is the thing about omega-3s. Brain is, you know, I think, the number one piece of it. So not only is there, you know, research to support that it can help with minimizing alcohol cravings, there's many, many studies that show its impact on mood, on focus, eliminating risk or lowering risk of Alzheimer's or dementia in the future, but it does have an anti-inflammatory benefit overall in the body too, so there's so many benefits to it. It's one that I think most people should be taking on a regular basis for sure.

20:58 - Chase (Host) Another person writes your honesty. You, uh, your honesty is refreshing, thank you. I'm terrified to give up my best friend wine, but I'm getting close to my first day of no alcohol. I feel like I have to give my friends a heads up, because it's such a big part of how we socialize. Part of me feels guilty that I'm no longer going to be able to participate in our gatherings, as I don't think I'm strong enough to say no, but I'm not leaving or excuse me. I'm not loving how I feel and look. So I know it has to be done. So then I guess the question there is how do we socialize without alcohol?

21:34 - Brooke (Guest) Such a good question. And wine was my best friend too. I loved a good Pinot Noir and, you know, if ever the temptation came up for me in the early days, I used to remind myself that I probably consumed enough wine to, you know, fill a large pool um, and that I didn't really need to try any more wine. But I can understand and appreciate the relationship and feeling like we're losing our best friend. There's definitely a grief associated with letting that go and there's definitely uh, grief.

22:04 - Chase (Host) You would. You would use the word. I would use the word grief?

22:06 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, absolutely, because it's like you're losing a best friend. This is someone that came with you to every event you ever went to. This is something that you know, sat with you when you were sad at home, and you know you probably rely on.

22:20 Oh, absolutely Absolutely. And in situations like this we rely on alcohol to socialize. We have for the millennia, you know we've, we have since the beginning of time. And that can feel really scary going into that because we don't. It's almost like from Talladega Nights when he's like I don't know what to do with my hands Right, like I don't know what to do with my hands if I'm not drinking. I don't know what to do with my hands if I'm not drinking.

22:45 But a lot of it is that trial and error of going into it and just exploring it. See how you feel without it. You might actually, once you turn down that first drink, it gets a little bit easier to turn down another drink, having an alternative in your hand. Maybe it's a non-alcoholic wine, or maybe it is another non-alcoholic beverage that isn't as triggering. It's a non-alcoholic wine, or maybe it is another non-alcoholic beverage that isn't as triggering, it's a non-alcoholic beer or a mocktail. But I think, yes, tell your friends, because A it's not as polarizing as it used to be. So your friends might say I've been thinking about doing that too.

23:19 Why don't we all do an alcohol-free social gathering and see how it goes? So a lot of times we live in this fear of oh my gosh, what are people going to think? How is this going to change who I am? And it's usually like the monster under the bed, right, like it's scarier than it seems. When we do it, we go oh, this is like an old sock under the bed. It wasn't a monster at all. Do it, we go oh, this is like an old sock under the bed, it wasn't a monster at all. And yeah, it changes how we feel and I really believe it's a super empowering choice. I told a client not long ago and I love this like this is a superpower to go into a room and be the only one that doesn't drink, to go to the bachelorette party and be the only one that doesn't drink, it's a superpower a power move.

24:03 Yeah, badass it's badass, because everyone else is doing this thing and you are rising above that thing.

24:11 - Chase (Host) For one second, I think, are we down again positive superpower.

24:17 - Brooke (Guest) Let me have a word with my. Is it the? I think it might be the switcher Ah. Chris.

24:27 - Chase (Host) I know I'm sorry, we're still recording on the cameras, but it's just the feed to the backup, got it, that's the issue.

24:36 - Brooke (Guest) yeah Well, I was just blabbering on anyway. So no, no, no, no no.

24:42 - Chase (Host) You guys are doing great, and I actually want to kind of even go a little bit deeper here, because I not to like really pull apart this person's comment but like, the way they're describing this is like very, it's pretty intense, like I have to give my friends a heads up. I feel guilt to me. Yeah, part of me feels guilty. Yeah, I don't think I'm strong enough to say no, like if we substituted wine or alcohol for anything else that this person would be talking about, we would think it's a very heavy subject matter.

25:06 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah.

25:07 - Chase (Host) But you know, it's almost like a mad lib. You know, if you put wine in place of I don't know my boyfriend or my job or anything else, that people say is, like you know, a normal life thing, like why is wine holding this much weight in your life? So let's go back to what you're talking about, of, like you know the superpower and confidence.

25:25 - Brooke (Guest) This is a superpower to show up places and be the only one that doesn't drink. It isn't a weakness, it's a strength, right, but we often think of it as this weakness. We think of it as we can't hold our alcohol or we can't. You know, people are going to think that we have a problem and that this means something about us forgetting that we have a problem and that this means something about us forgetting that we have the ability to decide what it means for us. It means that, you know, I don't like how this was making me feel, so I've decided to stop drinking it and I actually feel really good. So, reframing it back to yourself as a positive rather than a negative, and not kind of hiding behind that fear, but instead making it an empowered choice and something that you're excited about, you're happy about and that is having an impact, that means something to you and people aren't going to push back on that Exactly.

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27:57 Caldera lab makes it easy not to like nitpick their words that much, but I mean very intense words they're using to describe alcohol. I feel like I have to give my friends a heads up. Like, what part of any personal choice we make in our life should we have to warn our friends about? Sure, maybe you know your close friends. If you're gonna be making a deviation in your norm, maybe changing things up that change how they interact with you, like if they're really your friends, you should be able to let them know and you can have a conversation about it. But to say that part of me feels guilty that I'm no longer going to be able to participate in our gatherings, that truly is your point.

28:39 The grief If you feel like you're losing part of your identity. You're losing your access card to social clubs, to parties, to events, to maybe even you know if this type of interaction was how you saw your professional life going like. The only people that get promoted in my job are the people that go to the events and happy hours and schmooze it up and get wasted with the team. Um, this is very serious subject matter and I don't think it up and get wasted with the team. This is very serious subject matter and I don't think it should be taken lightly. How this person feels.

29:09 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, it is. Alcohol is a very powerful grip on our society, on people, on our experiences, our relationships. So many relationships and friendships are founded on alcohol and it can feel really scary to change that. It can feel really scary to be the person that comes in and says I, I don't want to do this anymore. It, yeah, it feels like there's a loss there because we put so much into this relationship around alcohol. Think about it in this particular situation. It's the thing that brings them together, right.

29:49 - Chase (Host) It's wine night.

29:50 - Brooke (Guest) It's, it's why we've gotten together and if I'm not going to be participating in that, that makes me feel like I'm a bad person or that I'm doing something wrong for not participating. And again, it's a lot about this reframe of I'm making an empowered choice for my best self, for my health, for my mental health, whatever that might be, and maybe it does mean spending some time not going to the wine nights.

30:19 That's okay. I didn't go out for the first couple of months when I first quit drinking, because it's hard to be in those environments. How did your friends take that Especially well, just like you said the people who are truly your friends are going to support you through and through. Part of the reason why I attended that bachelorette party in Vegas is because this is one of my best girlfriends from growing up and when I quit drinking she supported me no matter what.

30:47 - Chase (Host) Amazing.

30:48 - Brooke (Guest) She was not upset that I kind of picked and chose which events I came to at the bachelorette. She made sure that there was options for me to drink. She went out of her way to, you know, make sure that I was okay and I was feeling comfortable. And true friendships and relationships are going to be supportive in that way. If the other person is projecting something, it usually means more about them than it does about you. So you know, if someone is upset that you're not drinking, it's probably because they're worried about their own relationship with alcohol and they're projecting onto you their own discomfort. So that's again where framing it back to the empowerment piece of, instead of going into it. Hey guys, you know I'm not drinking anymore and I know it's going to be really hard and really worried about it it's.

31:42 I've been following this thing and I haven't been drinking. I've been feeling good. Here's these non-alcoholic drinks I brought. I brought a little for everyone if you guys want to taste them. I am excited about this. I'm going into it with a positive mindset. It's a very different way to approach it. So it's taking our power back in the situation and even thinking about the intensity of those words. How do we reframe them. Part of it is. I love this quote that says fear is excitement without the breath.

32:15 - Chase (Host) Ooh, I like that.

32:17 - Brooke (Guest) Right. So a lot of times we're afraid of something, but we're actually kind of excited about it. Wow, what could this mean for me If my life isn't run by alcohol? Wow, I might be able to get up in the morning and work out. I might be able to lose that weight I've been wanting to. I might not be as depressed, I might be able to get a promotion at work Whatever those things are that mean something for you. Look at those positive things that it can bring to you instead of what you're losing. But I won't discount the grief that is a part of it too.

32:51 - Chase (Host) Yeah, very well said. Love that response, thank you. Another person writes this is the first video that has said anything about hormones and drinking. And I know we kind of touch on that a little bit. Maybe here's an opportunity to go deeper into hormonal health. How does alcohol affect hormones and why is this so important now to discuss?

33:10 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, this is a great question and it's a comment. I get a lot in regards to hormones and alcohol. Because we've heard about hormones and liver. We're hearing more about, or sorry, alcohol and liver. We hear more about alcohol in the brain. We're hearing more about, or sorry, alcohol and liver. We hear more about alcohol in the brain. We're hearing more about cancer.

33:28 But most of us think those two things are pretty far apart. Right, we think hormones are over here, alcohol's over here, so the two aren't really connected. Right, and this is very inaccurate, because if we think about the liver, aside from processing alcohol, the liver has many other functions in the body. It is not just a liver sponge, but it's actually one of the key sites of metabolism of hormones. So I always put it this way that hormones are, or your hormonal system is, the only system of your body that you could remove the entire system and still live. Right, you could do a full hysterectomy, take that out, still live. You can't take out your cardiovascular system, you can't take out your neurological system. So when the body's under stress, the first thing to get put on the back burner is going to be your hormones.

34:23 - Chase (Host) This is fascinating. I've never heard it described this way.

34:25 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah. So it's interesting because this is not just about alcohol, but this is about stress. This is about any other high toxic load. If there's any other major thing going on in your body, hormones are going to be put aside, because if you need to survive, if you need to breathe and live, you don't need to reproduce. That's going to be kind of put to the side. So hormones are are highly impacted in a lot of ways because of this. But with regards to alcohol specifically, one piece is the liver piece that when we are regularly putting alcohol in the body and causing the liver to have to prioritize that toxic substance out of the body, it's going to deprioritize regulation of hormones.

35:11 - Chase (Host) That's right. You say prioritize here, just because the liver has to get rid of that first before it works on other bodily processes and detoxification and everything else, because it's such a stressor on the body right, it's a toxin. It can't not work on alcohol first, exactly.

35:25 - Brooke (Guest) So it's going to put alcohol as priority number one because this is causing disruption in the rest of the system, and so we're going to prioritize alcohol metabolism. We're going to put hormones to the side for now. One of the reasons that alcohol is specifically linked to hormone-specific cancers, like breast cancer, is because of this particular mechanism. So when we have hormone-specific cancers, oftentimes it's it's estrogen dominance, it's there's a buildup of estrogen in the body. It hasn't been broken down and metabolized and that builds up in the system and causes damage. Well, again, if we are prioritizing metabolism of alcohol, we're causing that buildup in storage of these estrogen compounds. Alcohol, we're causing that buildup and storage of these estrogen compounds.

36:14 So that's one piece of it. We could dive deeper into that, but I want to mention the other things, which are that alcohol affects the brain. The brain produces hormones, or sends signals to different parts of the body to produce hormones. And the other key piece of it is cortisol and stress, because when our body is experiencing high levels of stress, overproducing cortisol, again it is going to deprioritize hormone production. The same precursor that produces cortisol produces our sex hormones, and so we basically reroute that precursor into the production of stress like cortisol, testosterone, estrogen, things like that.

36:54 - Chase (Host) Okay.

36:55 - Brooke (Guest) Correct. So it basically again becomes the priority, because stress cortisol is released to save us from a tiger or a bear in the woods, right, and we aren't out in the woods fending off tigers or bears, but we're going to work and we're having a stressful meeting. Or bears, but we're going to work and we're having a stressful meeting. We are, you know, driving around stressful Los Angeles, you know, almost getting into car accidents and yelling at the person in the car next to us, right? But cortisol and we talked about this on the last episode too is increased with alcohol consumption, so it does not actually effectively lower stress, even though we think it does. Yeah, that's pretty ironic.

37:36 - Chase (Host) A lot of people drink so that they de-stress, but it's actually having the opposite effect.

37:41 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, it's actually worsening stress. It's actually increasing cortisol production and that process. There's some interesting studies around it. There's also some studies that show that binge drinking the way that binge drinking affects cortisol levels is a predictor of future binge drinking behavior. So basically, we spike cortisol, we have this elevated cortisol and because of that elevated stress, we're more likely to drink. Wow.

38:09 - Chase (Host) So we kind of start building this negative cycle this thing that just kind of like gets out of hand, unbeknownst, to drink Wow. And so we kind of start building this negative cycle, this this thing that just kind of like gets out of hand, unbeknownst to us.

38:18 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, it is basically we. We are drinking because we're stressed, and we're stressed because we're drinking. Add in all the other stress of the world which we won't get into on this podcast. But we live in a highly, highly stressful world, and coming up with healthier mechanisms for supporting that stress is actually going to help us lower cortisol. That might be things like supplementation with herbs like ashwagandha, for example, or it could be meditation, exercise, therapy whatever that tool might be for you. But it's really important for us in this process and journey, for us to find those other ways that we de-stress and unwind and break that connection and that relationship that we have with alcohol being the solve.

39:05 - Chase (Host) Okay, a small caveat here I would say. Let's say, someone is listening, watching right now, and they're hearing you, but they're not yet quite ready to give up alcohol. But this whole aspect of hormone health has them intrigued. What can they do to potentially offset, if anything, the negative hormone effects that alcohol is having on their body until, if, when, they decide to stop drinking alcohol?

39:32 - Brooke (Guest) Well, I like you, Chase, because you always want to say, but how do we drink?

39:34 - Chase (Host) and get away with it, right.

39:37 - Brooke (Guest) How do we Trust me? I get it.

39:40 - Chase (Host) There's just a variety of people and approaches to A hundred percent To life and to alcohol, for sure.

39:44 - Brooke (Guest) A hundred percent what I will say as a baseline, and I tell this to a lot of people that I work with. If you have a health condition, you have a symptom, a diagnosis and you are drinking alcohol, it's probably impacting it, regardless of what that is. You know we could talk about anything from hormone imbalances to depression, anxiety to you know, you name it.

40:10 - Chase (Host) Wholeheartedly agree yeah.

40:12 - Brooke (Guest) What I will say is that it is person specific of how much alcohol may be impacting your body. I think it depends on the level with which you maybe have a goal or a diagnosis that you're trying to get under control.

40:31 So, for example, diagnosis that you're trying to get under control. So, for example, alcohol can worsen PMS. This is because of you know these hormone dysregulation, the hormone dysregulation that can occur, but also things like certain nutrient deficiencies. Um, something like B6 is used, and has been used for a long time, to support PMS symptoms, and alcohol depletes B6. So you can take some of these nutrients and try to support that. On the kind of farther end of the spectrum, if you have a, if you have breast cancer, right, that would be an area where I would say, yeah, full alcohol cessation is going to be best. It's going to help your you know your chance of, you know your risk to go down in the future a recurrence, and it's also going to just promote the further balance. So it depends on, I think, how intensely you want to seek support.

41:31 You know, there's definitely a lot of ways to restore the body after alcohol if you are continuing to use it. So supporting the liver with herbs, with foods like broccoli or beets these are some of the ones I talk about in the book, but I'm a big proponent of, if you're holding onto it, asking yourself why you're holding onto this so tightly and it doesn't have to be that you never drink again. But it's about evaluating what that relationship is and if you have these really intense ties to it and these fears around letting it go and asking more about that.

42:07 - Chase (Host) Yeah, well said. And I'll say this, I think, since our last conversation and again, just the way my life has been going the last couple of years, I have not landed on the ultimatum, the choice of to go. I am not drinking ever again. Despite being in the health and wellness space, despite having amazing guests like yourself that like break down, and I know you directly, there is no direct positive biological, biochemical, physiological benefit, health benefit to drinking alcohol. Can you, maybe just me, make the statement that you know, you know it's socialization, it's, it's, you know, maybe even a religious aspect. You know there can be parts to it that have other than benefits.

42:54 Um, but I will say that I have come to a place to where and I think a lot of people are looking at these statistics of we were much more comfortable asking that question why am I drinking? Why do I? Do I even want this? Um, or even just becoming more fair and evaluating, like just a quick 24-hour scan. That's really kind of where I landed recently of all right, what is this event? Is it worth me feeling anything other than my best tomorrow? And if it's not a hell, yes, then I'm like no, it's it's. You know, it's not like an ultimatum. It's just like. It's not worth it.

43:31 - Brooke (Guest) Well, and I think you're a good example of someone who alcohol is kind of a take it or leave it in in a lot of ways, and that's really where it's a spectrum, because some people truly can use alcohol sporadically, small amounts. Not the worst thing for you, right, your body metabolizes it. It's gone, it has minimal impacts versus someone who is drinking every weekend, five drinks a night or more, uh, or they're drinking a little bit every single day. That's very different than I think in your case and in a lot of cases. But there is a spectrum and, as you remember, in the book I talk about the drinking archetypes.

44:13 You, to me, are more of that like fourth, nonchalant drinker, which is kind of like the take it or leave it kind of person, whereas you can go to an event, you are kind of contemplating and thinking about it. People who are watching some like you, who maybe want to optimize by minimizing it as much as possible, versus someone who's watching and is a regular drinker and is sitting here with mood imbalances or specific health concern that, yeah, it's going to be more impactful on that person than on the next person like you. So it's really truly a personal choice. We all have our own experiences with it, our own ties to why we do it, who we do it with. The backstories run deep for all of us and it's that attachment, it's the way that the brain is associating alcohol with certain things right, absolutely.

45:14 So it's an interesting topic because, yeah, I don't want to sit here and say, Chase, never drink again or I'm never coming back on this podcast.

45:23 - Chase (Host) That's not my prerogative.

45:24 - Brooke (Guest) My prerogative is helping everyone to identify if this is an area of opportunity for their health.

45:31 - Chase (Host) Absolutely, and this kind of really wraps a perfect kind of fence around this. This next question, which we just kind of, I think, explained this comment this person left, was I think the host is feeling a mirror being held up to him about his own drinking. He me completely pivoted when the guest said she got a book deal and ran a half marathon right after she quit. I would love a book deal. Uh, that is huge, apparently. Yeah, that's huge, and that story is really important for the sober curious. Um.

46:00 So you know, I think it brings up how do we deal with our own ideas about drinking. And what really came to mind for me when you were just kind of breaking that down was how well do we, or how well are we willing to get to know thyself when we boil it all down, alcohol, if we don't have a reason for why we're drinking it, then why are we doing it? And if we have a reason, what is it? Um, and it's very intimate, it's very personal, like you're saying, and I think there's some fear, there's some uncertainty, there's some work that if we go down that rabbit hole, there's work to be done and, like with any behavior change, like with anything, we're trying to add, subtract minus whatever in our life. It's very, very rare, in my opinion.

46:48 This takes me back to my health coaching days. It's very rare that the thing is ever the thing right. The thing is just an easy excuse. It's a blockade that we can lean on, it's a crutch, it's a whatever that is keeping us from actually working on the thing behind it, and that's a deep rooted trauma. That's a inability to, you know, say yes or say no, or our levels of confidence, or scared that our friends might judge us, or scared that we might not like these people or like ourselves when we're not drinking. So there's so much more there. It's really the commitment. What commitment are you going to make to that?

47:24 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, not the alcohol. Yeah Well, I want to comment on this. It's really important. I appreciate you bringing this up and calling it out of, you know, the mirror being held up to all of us in this situation, and that's sometimes what makes this work challenging, because I never want to be. I try to take a really nonjudgmental approach to it and more of a sharing stories of my experiences, my clients' experiences, because you're right that it is very deeply personal. It's usually not the alcohol, it's something else tied to that, and I can say, in my own experience, addressing my own alcohol use and my dysfunctional relationship with alcohol, my fear of doing that was highly tied to the fact that my dad was an addict and my dad has an addiction history. Tied to the fact that my dad was an addict and my dad has an addiction history and I for a very long time told myself I'm going to be able to drink and not have a problem right, I'm going to be able to overcome this or break that generational I'm not them.

48:24 I'm not them, right, and that kept me from stopping. That kept me from looking deeper at well, what is actually the trauma underneath that, or what actually am I hiding from? And I always said, too, before I quit drinking, that I didn't drink because of my feelings. I drank because I liked to have fun and I liked to socialize, and I'm very outgoing and extroverted, and it became more so when I quit. Oh, I do drink for my feelings. I drink because I'm lonely, I drink because I'm sad, I drink because I want people to like me or whatever that feeling is. And a lot of times when we come into this, we realize we weren't even choosing to drink.

49:13 - Chase (Host) We were just drinking because that was what we always did.

49:17 - Brooke (Guest) So part of this process is just about going through that experience of like pausing before you pick up a drink or that you go to that behavior right away and stopping and sitting with those feelings and going, oh, what is that? And is there something else that I can do to soothe that? And I always tell people with alcohol cravings it's usually our body sending us a signal, and I talk a lot about how sometimes that signal is hunger, especially with, like afternoon alcohol cravings. So having an afternoon snack can be really helpful five o'clock when the you know the wine which comes. But it's usually our body sending us a signal. It's like a five fire alarm, five alarm fire in our body and our pattern has been to pick up the alcohol when this process is a lot about exploring what?

50:08 Okay, wait, what is that feeling? What do I need right now? Do I need to talk to someone? Do I need to take a bath? Do I need to have something to eat? Do I need to sleep? What is that feeling and how do I get better dealing with that without numbing it?

50:25 - Chase (Host) I think that what you just said is one of the most equally scary and liberating realizations anyone can come to, whether we're talking about alcohol, any, any addiction, any crutch, anything in life.

50:41 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah.

50:41 - Chase (Host) Because when you, when you really just think about what Brooke just said and kind of rewind and go, does that imply that I'm not in control of my life?

50:50 How much of our day. How many of our choices that we make or don't make are conscious, or are we just living in repetition? Are we just stuck in habit autopilot? We don't even realize it. And you know, some of those habits and some of those routines we make and we don't even realize, others are just formulated because it's culture, make and we don't even realize others are just formulated because it's culture, it's nature, it's nurture.

51:22 The second that you just question that is the moment you begin to become free. You set your mind free, and I say both terrifying and liberating, because it's very scary to realize, like I'm not in control of my life, like I'm not making these choices because I want to, it's just circumstance or habit. But then it's like the second, you say that you flip it and you take your power back and go oh, right now I have the moment, I have the power, I have the choice to, to make every choice I want for me. Or even if I don't know why, right now it's at least at least I, that moment that pause to formulate a new belief system, to formulate a new habit, like that is freeing your mind, that is freeing your life.

51:58 - Brooke (Guest) Most of us don't have that pause or we've lost that pause. We live in a world where, like pause is not really encouraged.

52:06 It's next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next next next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next next, email, email, social media notification, notification, phone call. We live in this world where it is constant and we're constantly expected to be on to be this, that alcohol does a really good job of hitting the pause Like wow, okay, I can like relax for a second. You don't need alcohol to do that. The problem is that we have gotten so used to using alcohol for that that we don't even think that we have a choice. And someone framed it to me very early on in my sobriety and it's funny, looking back, how much this rings true for me in this like not important conversation that life is just a series of choices.

52:55 Right Right now, I can say I can lift my right arm, or I can lift my left arm, or I could keep my arms on the table, I can pick up this coffee, I can walk out. Right now I can say this or say that. And if we break it down to all these little choices small, minuscule little things that we do, these little choices, small, minuscule little things that we do Alcohol is just one of those things. So, even with a social situation going out to meet up with your friends and you're not sure if you're going to drink or not. When someone comes over to you and says do you want to drink? You have a choice, small choice yes, no, you can say no, I'll get one a little bit. That kicks the can down the road, right.

53:32 - Chase (Host) So it doesn't have to be these big sweeping things.

53:37 - Brooke (Guest) It can be if that feels right for you, but it can also be, you know what? I'm not going to drink today. Like, if you're listening to this episode, my goal for you, very AA mentality, is just don't drink today, tomorrow. If you want to drink, you can drink tomorrow. And a lot of alcoholics use that mentality and they just kick the can down the road to the next day, next day, next day, and they just stay in the day.

54:01 And we live in a world, in a society, where we are always thinking outside of ourselves, right in this moment, and we very rarely stop and sit in this moment and think like, oh, okay, I'm all right. Right now, I'm okay. So, yeah, looking at all that stress too and this is a whole nother thing to go down the route of. But gosh, if you are so stressed and you need alcohol, let's lower your stress. Let's look at what are the top 10 sources of stress and start to figure out how do you manage those, how do you put those in other categories? How do you ask for help more, how do you say no to things so that you don't feel like you need to check out all the time? It's very real for all of us.

54:46 The thing is never the thing right, the thing is never the thing, and I'll tell you that, even being sober, there's still stuff. Never the thing, and I'll tell you that even being sober, there's still stuff, there's still stress, there's still all those things. But it has been about I'm going to cope by calling a friend. I'm going to cope. I'm a big bath taker. I'm going to take a bath. I'm going to lay down for a little while. You know what, as much as I don't love to do it, I'm going to put on a Netflix show because it's going to just take me out of this for a little while, and just practicing making a different choice is going to help you get there step-by-step.

55:20 - Chase (Host) That's such a key word practice. I think people might feel stuck or afraid to make any changes around their alcohol consumption because like, well, what if the choice I make instead, what if it's the wrong one? Or what if it's not the right one? What if it's just anything other than getting me to this feeling that? You know, I hear about it, we're talking about it's a practice. The choice you make instead of drinking doesn't have to be always the same choice that you keep making, but it does need to be something different. If you choose to lean into lowering your drinking, stopping drinking entirely, you also need to make the choice of consistently figuring out what choice you need to make instead of if that makes sense.

56:03 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, and it doesn't have to be this all or nothing.

56:06 A lot of us live in this black and white world and, yeah, for me, for some people, that choice might be none. It might just be again. You know what. I'm going to just try not to drink today, or you know what I'm not going to drink this week. I'll pick it back up next week if I feel like it, but let me just see how it feels for the next couple of days to not drink. Let me write down when a feeling comes up that I'm like oh wow, I almost just grabbed alcohol. I wasn't even thinking about it. So, yeah, it's a practice of just starting to pay more attention to how it plays a role in your life, consciously and unconsciously.

56:45 - Chase (Host) Which kind of brings me to my next point here. Someone was talking about drinking non-alcoholic beverages. So let's say you're, you're at home, you're buying groceries instead of wine, you get the non-alcoholic Instead of a cocktail, you buy a canned mocktail. Are we now just consuming sugary, sweet drinks, things that are going to overload our liver, increase calories, cause diabetes, you know, going down the rabbit hole there. What are the best NA drinks, non-alcoholic drinks, to gravitate towards? And what are some? Maybe, just maybe ingredients we should be mindful of when making this switch, to make the best switch in terms of our health.

57:32 - Brooke (Guest) You know we're in a great time. As it relates to mocktails and non-alcoholic drinks. There are endless options, really. You can get alternative to anything. You can get alternative tequila, you can get alternative vodka, you can get, you know, your favorite mocktail in a can or your favorite cocktail in a non-alcoholic version. You can get things that taste sweet, that taste sour. I mean really endless options, and they're actually pretty good. The beers have come a long way, the non-alcoholic wines have come a long way, and my perspective is well, it's multifaceted One. I will tell you that when I was in Vegas for said bachelorette party, I was able to get a non-alcoholic espresso martini at one of the high-end restaurants. It was not very good. Sadly, I didn't love it.

58:20 - Chase (Host) That's a shame. That's a shame.

58:21 - Brooke (Guest) But it was really nice that I could have, you know, the fancy glass and a couple of them had espresso martinis, so I felt like I was partaking Cost $18 or something crazy like that still, but and they sometimes do they they serve a purpose for sure when you're out and you want to feel like you're partaking or you want to have a fun drink, and I think that's really important and it's an important piece of people feeling more open and able to make the change. Of course, there is a lot of junk on the market too. A lot of them have a lot of sugars and, you know, can be maybe problematic if you're consuming them in excess. The difference is that they don't have that same addictive quality as alcohol does. So most people find they can have one or two non-alcoholic beers and they're not going to drink a 12 pack like they might of real beer.

59:15 - Chase (Host) Right yeah.

59:16 - Brooke (Guest) So it's actually quite hard to do that. I tried once to drink like several non-alcoholic beers in one sitting early on.

59:22 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I think I've kept out at two. Yeah.

59:24 - Brooke (Guest) It doesn't have the same. You don't have that same like pull for more. So most people aren't doing it in excesses. So most people aren't doing it in excesses. There is some controversy over yeah, if you're drinking a non-alcoholic wine, is it still mimicking the drinking? Is it really a healthy alternative? I personally was a big wine drinker just like my girl there in the comments and when I first tried the non-alcoholic wine it felt really uncomfortable to me because it felt too similar to wine, so I didn't go for it. But I do have one client in particular who was a rosé drinker and she essentially did a one-for-one swap with it in the beginning.

01:00:06 - Chase (Host) So like one alcoholic drink, one non-alcoholic drink.

01:00:09 - Brooke (Guest) No, she did. If she would normally have a bottle of rosé at night, she would now have a bottle of non-alcoholic drink. No, she did. If she would normally have a bottle of Rose at night, she would now have a bottle of non-alcoholic Rose. So she was drinking a lot of it in the beginning and again, because it doesn't have that same addictive tendency, she naturally just started tapering down on it and now she doesn't drink it at all.

01:00:30 So for for her case, it actually was a really good way to get her off of regular wine, but I don't necessarily recommend that for everyone. My point is here that there are a lot of options and ways that you can use them to your benefit. I am, if you're, a pretty heavy drinker or moderate drinker. I'd rather you, in the interim, have some extra sugar If it's going to help you lower the alcohol. The sugar usually takes care of itself in a little bit of time, whereas the alcohol is the one that can be a little bit trickier to navigate. So it's an interesting space. There's a lot of beverages out there. There are a lot of functional beverages that now have these ashwagandhas and L-theanine and things in them.

01:01:14 - Chase (Host) Do you have any favorites that you care to share, or like favorite ingredients or favorite actual products?

01:01:19 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, I love Hio. Hio is one of my favorite Curacy Elixirs another big fan of them. There's a lot that I like there's. Also I'm a tough critic because I know a lot about the ingredients that we use in these things and some of them I do think should come with warning labels based on the amounts and quantities they have in them, or that information isn't shared on the label. So I think it can be a little bit of a wild west, almost like the supplement space, and you do want to be conscientious of not over-consuming these things as well if there's supplements and things in them. So being mindful of that. But I do love the use of L-theanine, which is really great for enhancing GABA production, which is one of our relaxing neurotransmitters.

01:02:07 - Chase (Host) There it is, yeah.

01:02:08 - Brooke (Guest) So it can help with relaxation, it can help with focus, it can help with mental clarity. So it can help with relaxation, it can help with focus, it can help with mental clarity. So there really are a lot of these ingredients in these drinks that are making it easier for us to consume them in a way that's kind of fun and exciting and also mimic some of the feelings of alcohol. So with drinking an L-theanine drink you might still get that sense of relaxation not as potent, but it can kind of help ease you down a little bit. If that's something you're looking for.

01:02:35 - Chase (Host) Oh, maybe you can mix up something. I'm thinking, uh, going down my little wellness apothecary, if there was a mocktail that had L-theanine, reishi, little CBD, mm-hmm, vitamin D, and maybe I'm trying to think of all my calming agents. I think that might be. That might be something really good for somebody looking for that. Like I want to feel relaxed.

01:03:03 - Brooke (Guest) I want to feel calm.

01:03:05 - Chase (Host) I even see some. Now I don't know a product I'm not thinking of a particular product like that in mind but even a lot of mocktails that have, like microdose THC, small amounts of THC coupled with CBD, and things like ashwagandha and reishi all kinds of calming agents, adaptogenic, immunomodulating. Even so, I think you can really get creative. You spend just a little bit of time I'll even dive into your book of figuring out these key ingredients, what to look for and what to kind of like curate yourself, cause you can get a lot of these in like a tincture form, so you can make your own little mocktail and add a couple of drops here and there.

01:03:40 - Brooke (Guest) Totally, and I have some recipes in the book that use some supplements like mag. I have a magnesium mineral mocktail. So we use that in tandem with a couple of other. We use raspberries and lemon and things to give it a good flavor.

01:03:54 - Chase (Host) Tart cherry on top of that. Tart cherry is a good one.

01:03:57 - Brooke (Guest) Almost like a sleepy girl mocktail so yeah, there's, these are. It's really fun. I mean, there's a lot of opportunities.

01:04:06 I'm I'm an advisor for a non-alcoholic bar and cafe that's opening in New York, and we're putting together a lot of really interesting innovative drinks in that realm and, yeah, I think it's an exciting space. There's a lot of products to try, so it's good to maybe go to one of the shops where you can taste them or try different things so that you can see which things you like. And it's really an exciting time for the alcohol-free space and my belief is, if you're not getting into it, you're going to be behind.

01:04:36 So this is your uh kind of catapult into cutting back. It doesn't have to be no alcohol, it's just. It's a journey, it's an exploration, it's a practice, if you will, and really just seeing the impacts that it has without it. You know that, the how your body feels without it.

01:04:56 - Chase (Host) Well, this has been incredible. It's so good to catch back up with you. Um, I want to kind of get into another point that I think is very intriguing right now, and that's besides like the products, besides the marketing, besides the social media, whatever it may be is quote driving this alcohol-free, sober, curious movement. There's one generation in particular that seems to be spearheading it all Gen Z. Right now, they're proving to be the most prominent generation that doesn't just not drink, they're like the champions for it. Why do you think this generation, gen Z in particular, is so anti-alcohol and why they're like putting their flag on that hill?

01:05:35 - Brooke (Guest) I think there's a few pieces to it. One a lot of the discussion behind it is around how Gen Z has been particularly challenged with mental health concerns anxiety, depression, them seeing how much alcohol has been associated with mental health concerns. I also think that Gen Z is growing up with a parent generation that was heavy drinkers.

01:06:06 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

01:06:07 - Brooke (Guest) And they're looking at that with a different perspective. You can probably relate to this Chase Cause I know you and I are around the same age where alcohol when I was a teenager, when we were teenagers, was very adultified, like it was the picture of what adults do. We watched MTV and you know all the reality TV shows where everyone was drinking on TV and it was what you do as an adult and it was almost this like glamorous thing to drink and that's what we did, whereas Gen Z is exposed to a really different environment where they're seeing an abundance of alcohol and they're seeing it as more problematic.

01:06:58 I heard someone refer to it as boomer technology oh man, Like it's like old school way to like have fun. And so I. I think there's a few things playing into it. I think the mental health piece plays a big role, but I'm excited that they're drinking less. I think it is going to help shape the movement and I think it it has created a an interesting change in the next generation, Whereas I can imagine, if you were a boomer or a gen X, watching this younger generation come up as the partiers, that we were almost like carrying each other along, Whereas this generation standing up and saying like we're not going to do that. It's kind of gross. It's kind of like why are we losing control in that way? And so I like that they're doing this. I like that they're kind of taking a stand and almost breaking some of that generational uh patterning.

01:07:52 - Chase (Host) Yeah, they're not just repeating their questioning, pausing. There's the pause you're talking about.

01:07:56 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I think that there's been a lot of things that this generation has gone through that is causing them to to take a second look, whereas our generation has been exposed to a lot of stress, a lot of trauma, I think, throughout our teenage years, adult years, economically, politically, all of these different avenues. That alcohol was that crutch to get through it. And now we're sitting here and going whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like how did we get here? How did we end up, all of us with these behaviors? And it's impacting health. So, yeah, we're seeing younger generations, younger women getting diagnosed with breast cancer. We're seeing some of these health issues sneak further and further down the ages, and I think Gen Z is smart for making the change.

01:08:50 - Chase (Host) If this pattern continues on next generation, next generation in terms of going towards the no alcohol movement, do you think America would ever be in a place to where we bring prohibition back, to where it's not only just I'm not drinking, it's actually alcohol is illegal now.

01:09:08 - Brooke (Guest) So I love this question and before I jump to it, I want to say that, in regards to Gen Z, something that just came up for me is I think they all have technology addictions instead, so I think they're getting their dopamine hits elsewhere.

01:09:21 - Chase (Host) They're too busy making TikTok videos instead of going to the bar. Yeah, they're getting their dopamine hits elsewhere. So, yes, that's a great point.

01:09:27 - Brooke (Guest) I want to put that little dot on the I there. You know, I would love to see a world where alcohol was not as acceptable as it is. I think the challenge with looking at things like prohibition is we learned the first time that people are still going to do it. Where I think we can make a lot of progress is in this education piece of progress is in this education piece. I think it is really important for people to understand alcohol for what it really is, that it is a drug. I was just having conversation earlier this morning about how it's probably the worst drug of all of them because it is so socially acceptable and because it even having an addiction in a lot of ways is like celebrated, like you used to go to the bar. I used to go to the bar and be like oh, we're alcoholics. Yeah, you know, it's grand old time. As long as we're all doing it together.

01:10:23 - Chase (Host) And it's the only one that you can die from withdrawals.

01:10:26 - Brooke (Guest) Absolutely.

01:10:27 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

01:10:28 - Brooke (Guest) And we, you know, if someone came in and said, hey, I'm two weeks off cocaine, everyone would be like yeah. But you come in and you say hey, I haven't drank in two weeks, and everyone goes well, why? Instead of hey, this is a toxin, this is a class one carcinogen, on the same list as asbestos and radiation and tobacco.

01:10:52 - Chase (Host) This is crazy.

01:10:53 - Brooke (Guest) And we do not argue those things. We don't say, oh, if you have a little bit of asbestos and radiation and tobacco, this is crazy. And we do not argue those things. We don't say, oh, if you have a little bit of asbestos, it's fine.

01:10:59 There's no acceptable level of asbestos acceptable level of asbestos and yet it sits in the same risk category as these other toxins. And I always say this and people usually get a little mind blown that the reason we feel drunk when we drink is because it's poisoning our nervous system. The reason why we can't walk in a straight line, we can't drive a car, is because it is poisoning our nervous system our brain cells.

01:11:28 - Chase (Host) How did we get to a place where we equate being in a poisoned state to feeling good, having fun?

01:11:36 - Brooke (Guest) And that is the question. We have been trained as a society to believe that that's what we have to do, that's what brings us together, that's what helps us connect with others, that's what gets us a good relationship, the hottest girl or guy. This is what gets us the best job. It's put in front of us to so that we continue to think this way, because it's worth a lot of money. And if people stop drinking well, then we have a problem. In fact, 2024 is the first year that alcohol sales went down. I think wine sales went down since the pandemic.

01:12:10 And the really interesting thing gosh, we could talk about this all day is there's a chart that shows wine sales. Since the 1990, studies that started showing that it has a positive effect on health and you can see that the wine charts. As soon as you see health benefits with alcohol, the sales go up. So, of course, the alcohol.

01:12:37 - Chase (Host) I'm fact checking here. We're trying to find this chart, but please keep going.

01:12:40 - Brooke (Guest) Of course the alcohol industry wants to, wants you to believe that it's good for you, because then then you're going to buy it and you know we, we are a consumer. Uh, what is it Capitalistic?

01:12:54 - Chase (Host) society Right right and we want people to buy, buy, buy, and alcohol has high margins I was able to find what you're talking about here, talking going back to you know, covid, when it was at a really an all-time high 2020 867 million total table wine gallons. Actually, let's just go with a higher number here. Let's go total wine gallons just in general 1.04 billion 2021, 1.06 billion, 2022, 986 million, 2023, 899 million.

01:13:31 - Brooke (Guest) So it just keeps going down million, so it just keeps going down. We hit a really big maximum during the pandemic and there were studies 2021, 2022 and beyond that came out to show that, yeah, alcohol consumption really kind of went through the roof. And it's not surprising why? Because we were all trapped inside our homes and you know, trying to cope with what was going on in the world. And I think we're seeing the aftermath of that.

01:14:05 We're seeing people either continue on a high trajectory of alcohol consumption or they're going wait a minute, I used to not drink like this. Why. Why am I craving a drink every night? And the movement towards sober, curious and non-alcoholic drinks are coming out and people are questioning what they've been doing for the last couple of years and maybe what they've been doing their whole lives, and it's a really big opportunity. So, again, to get back to you know, I don't think prohibition is coming back, but I would like to see a world where, yeah, maybe it was looked down upon a little bit more than it is today and it became more acceptable to not drink, rather than you being the outcast for not drinking.

01:14:51 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and I think I'm just looking at some other quick stats here. In the non-alcoholic beverage world, 2024 was huge. 2024 was the year where it went from being seen no longer as a substitute for alcoholic beverages but rather a standalone product with its own skew on flavors, like own, like market Um. And in 2024, actually non-alcoholic beverages sales increased by 27%.

01:15:19 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, I think we're going to continue seeing that go up significantly because there are more and more products and options for people. Now you're seeing them available at more restaurants. You're seeing them really all over the place and they're being sold at grocery stores near the alcohol. So if you're going there and you see and you go oh, you know what, maybe I'll try this instead tonight and you like that product, you keep buying it.

01:15:43 - Chase (Host) I want to make a prediction here. If we keep on this trajectory, imagine a world like this. You know, typically you would go out clubbing, barring whatever parties, and you know you're hungover, you're sleeping in, you're wasting the front half of the day, right? Imagine this. Imagine a world where we do still go out but we're not going out to like two, three, 4am. We're in home, at home, maybe still by midnight, but no hangover, no alcohol. Imagine this, you know we're going to see gym membership skyrocket. We're going to see public parks maybe get back open to max capacity. We're going to see cafes, breakfast spots. I wonder if there's going to be a positive, a net positive effect that is going to cause an effect. We're going to see this kind of maybe economic boom or just like a change in culture, morning culture on the weekends. That society, america, america, is going to have to kind of pivot around, but that's a great problem to have Right.

01:16:37 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I think again, it brings it back to the, to the wellness sector. It brings back alcohol. Isn't this separate thing? To me, it is. Alcohol free living is very much a part of the broader health and wellness spectrum. So these products are supplements, these products are, you know, alternatives to getting a green juice, and people are choosing this now in these socialized settings as well. So it isn't just kind of this isolated thing for people who are just quitting drinking. In fact, somewhere around somewhere in the nineties I won't quote the exact percentile, 90 something percent of people who buy non-alcoholic options still drink. They're looking for alternatives so that they're drinking less, or they're exploring these options as potential alternatives. I believe that Absolutely, um.

01:17:31 - Chase (Host) Okay, I have one more question before we wrap it up and get to the final question here, the ever forward moment of the show. Yes, just to kind of wrap up everything we've been talking about, and again, your book, our previous episode I'm going to have links for everybody down in the show notes and video description but just to kind of wrap up in a nice little bow here non-alcoholic bow of what we just talked about. Are we finding different ways of that change state that so many of us are after when we reach for that glass of wine or that beer or that cocktail that we often associate with alcohol, that relaxed, buzz, fun state, or are we just now weighing the health benefits more?

01:18:14 - Brooke (Guest) Such a good question. It's both. It's both in the sense of there's more options, like we've been talking about, with non-alcoholic beverages that have ashwagandha and L-theanine in them supplements even using food really to change our state and how we feel. Low blood sugar can make us feel highly stressed and want to grab a drink too. So sometimes again, we just need to eat, and that is, you know, crux of something I talk about in the book. So I do think that there are more options and things that give us the alternative, even just looking at the wellness sector and the explosion and more sauna places and cold plunge places and change state right, this is all too.

01:19:01 This is an alternative to going to the bar after work. Hey, meet me at the social sauna social wellness clubs social wellness clubs shout out remedy place.

01:19:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah, they doing a great job of it.

01:19:11 - Brooke (Guest) And, on the other hand, we have more and more research coming out that is showing how detrimental alcohol is to our health, because we live in a society that at this point, has consumed so much that it has had that impact. In 2022, we saw the reversal of those studies that supported that alcohol was good for cardiovascular health, with new studies that show actually those were flawed studies. We did larger studies that show there's no benefit of alcohol in small amounts. In fact, it's more problematic for cardiovascular disease the more you consume.

01:19:49 - Chase (Host) How many people are screaming at their television podcast player right now?

01:19:53 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, so, and then we see more of these larger governmental statements on the health effects of alcohol. Alcohol is linked to cancer. Alcohol and the gut microbiome, alcohol and hormones, alcohol and you know this health condition. So it's two, it's twofold, and I think those make a beautiful marriage, because not only do we have people interested in changing, wanting to change because of their health and that being very, very valid reason to do it, and more options for them to feel stress relief or feel social connection, the things that we sought it out for previously. So it's, it's kind of a beautiful time for it all. It'll be interesting to see when we meet up next year and we do the third episode of this where things will have gone.

01:20:41 But you know it's a really important topic. I'm glad you're covering it again and for those of you who are listening, I think if you're curious, if you're feeling like this little like, hmm, maybe this is an interesting thing. It doesn't have to be big sweeping statements to your friends. It doesn't have to be a massive change. It could be buying a non-alcoholic drink instead. It could be picking up a book on changing your relationship with alcohol, like this one. It could be simply just not drinking today. All of those are valid choices, to just move in the right direction and it's worth it.

01:21:16 - Chase (Host) Yeah Well, speaking of direction, all of this content, every episode, every guest, is meant to help us move in the direction of forward, to live a life ever forward. So it's been a year since I asked you this question. But now if I were to say, Brooke, how do you live a life ever forward? Now if I were to say, Brooke, how do you live a life ever forward?

01:21:37 - Brooke (Guest) What does that mean to you? Last year, I believe, I said quitting drinking was a way to move your life forward. I think what I want to say today is being open to change and being open to trying something different. Open to trying something different because alcohol is one of those things that we expect that is going to give us all of these cash and prizes, right.

01:22:06 We think we're going to get the good job, the hot husband, the whatever it might be. And you might come into this conversation feeling one way and leave it feeling a different way and being like, well, I never thought I would quit or cut back, and now I'm kind of thinking about it, or I've tied myself to this persona who's a drinker, I've tied my identity to alcohol and by living ever forward to me right now, it means being open to the fact that that can change, that we can change who we are, the choices that we make in moving forward, and that, even if we think we know something or we think we are this way, that we can change that.

01:22:53 - Chase (Host) We can change and we have the choice to do that. We are only ever set in our ways if we choose to stay there. The second we just allow the concept, the idea of oh, what if I did this? What if I did that? That I am not who I have always been again is terrifying but also liberating. Take that, put it through the lens of the model here of alcohol and uh, fear is excitement without the breath. There you go, there you go.

01:23:21 - Brooke (Guest) It's. A lot of times we're afraid of change because we don't know what it means, but we're actually kind of excited about what it could mean, and so if you're feeling a little bit of that fear, take a couple of breaths and let it transform into excitement and all of the things that could actually be on the other side of alcohol. You know, like we talked about for me it was a book, it was a half marathon.

01:23:42 - Chase (Host) It was these other things.

01:23:43 - Brooke (Guest) Maybe it's these cash and prizes, but it could simply just be feeling better, having better relationships, feeling more comfortable in your own skin, whatever it might be for you.

01:23:56 - Chase (Host) Rook, this was incredible. So good to have you back. Uh, I won't make the same joke I made last time, or I think we wrapped and I was like, hey, let's go get a drink. Uh, now we can, you know, finish our coffee with adaptogens.

01:24:07 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah exactly.

01:24:08 - Chase (Host) Um, again, everything will be linked in the show notes and video description box for you guys. But if my audience wants to connect with you now, where can they get your book?

01:24:18 - Brooke (Guest) learn more about what you have to offer and all the things that you do. Yeah, so the book is how to eat to change how you drink. It's available wherever books are sold Amazon, barnes and Noble wherever you get your books. It's also available on Kindle audio book and if you get the audio book, I'll read it to you.

01:24:31 - Chase (Host) Oh, yes, I love that when the author reads it.

01:24:34 - Brooke (Guest) Yes, Very lots of fun, and you can learn more about me and my programs at functional sobriety dot com. And make sure to check me out on Instagram at Dr Brooke Scheller.

01:24:44 - Chase (Host) All right, and you're going to see her out in the streets of LA. Now she's a girl.

01:24:49 - Brooke (Guest) Yeah, I'm a West Coast girl now I. I'm a West Coast girl, now I like it.

01:24:53 - Chase (Host) For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradiocom.