EFR 871: The Continuum of Success and Why You Have FAILURE All Wrong - How to Use Fear and Failure as Data to Transform Your Life with Anne-Marie Anderson

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Because I think failure is necessary. If you're not failing occasionally, you're not pushing hard enough.

00:08 - Chase (Host) Failure. I love it. It took me many years to get to a place, to have this relationship and understanding of failure and what it can do for me, and I know a lot of people listening right now are here because maybe they feel like a failure or they're letting the fear of failure stopping them before they ever start.

00:28 - Anne-Marie (Guest) And it's that fear, as you talked about a failure, that's the other big F word to me, because people let it stop them. Fear of embarrassment, judgment, exposure, any of that will stop you from starting if you let it. But here's the deal If you stay the same right, because fear is an invitation to grow. And so if you stay the same right, because fear is an invitation to grow.

00:46 And so if you stay the same, the only thing that staying the same ensures it's not safety, because I think that's what people think it's not safety it is that no growth is possible. So, in order to grow, you have to experiment, which means you're going to fail sometimes, and that means you're moving. You are progressing forward sometimes, and that means you're moving. You are progressing forward. Hey everybody, I'm Anne-Marie Anderson, author of Cultivating Audacity, and I'm on Ever Forward Radio. You have to listen to it because we want to keep moving forward in an audacious life.

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02:51 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, chase Tuning, army veteran, certified health coach, wellness entrepreneur and, honestly, especially in today's episode a guy that is trying to quote cultivate audacity. I'm all about dismantling doubts and letting myself win, and that is what today's guest, anne-marie Anderson, is going to walk us through. Her new work, her new book, cultivating Audacity Dismantle Doubt and Let Yourself Win is the core of our conversation today. This one was a lot of fun because, actually, right as I sat down to hold the interview, my wife's water broke back in January, so very timely piece here. My son now is three months old and Anne Marie was such a trooper. She was like I'm a parent, I get it. We got through the interview and I booked it to the hospital A really truly memorable conversation, if I do say so myself.

03:42 But what are we going to learn here today in the episode? Well, keep a few questions in mind. What if I'm not ready? What if I fail? Have you ever felt the pull to pursue something bigger? But you found yourself stuck watching opportunities, watching other people pass by as you just keep second guessing yourself or even second guessing your potential.

04:03 Well, my friend, you're not alone. We're talking about the barriers of fear, self-doubt and the ever present excuses of quote not enough time or quote not enough money. These two things really keep even the most ambitious dreams at arm's length. But here is the truth, and here is the core of our conversation today with Anne-Marie. Your dreams do not have to wait any longer. Anne-marie is going to be walking us through.

04:29 What keeps us from starting, or maybe getting started, isn't our problem right now, but it's just hoping that we don't fail once we do, or the concept of failure, navigating failure once we do get momentum, and even keeping this inevitable failure in mind, the idea that, down the line, I don't care who you are, I firmly believe that no one is perfect. No one is going to start something and just execute it perfectly. We are all going to fail in some capacity. So, keeping that in mind, we can learn how to use it to our advantage and, even better navigate through it. That, my friend, is exactly what living a life ever forward is all about, and that is why Anne-Marie Anderson is here on the show today. If you haven't yet done so, take three seconds right now, please, and just smash that subscribe button, that follow button on your podcast platform of choice whether it's Apple, spotify, whatever.

05:19 If you have found value in any episode I've ever put out, or maybe just the one here today, it is the biggest and best and easiest way to just share some thanks to me and my guests for helping you live a life ever forward. It helps the show get pushed out to potential new listeners so that we all together can help as many people as possible in their physical, mental, emotional, spiritual well-being. To help the world live a life ever forward that truly is my mission. So I have in mind for this interview, this conversation, kind of three sections when I was understanding failure, when I was kind of researching failure and more of your work.

05:54 These three areas of it kind of stood out, and that's fear or failure can prevent us from starting. We have this concept of not wanting to fail once we do take action and get started and then, in my opinion, the inevitable failure that's going to come with any course of action we take. So let's start there. Let's start with what is keeping us from starting? This concept of, or these questions of, what if I'm not ready? What if I fail? Why is fear, why is failure keeping us from even taking the first step?

06:31 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Because we think we have to succeed at everything. That's where we somehow were sold a bill of goods Like well, when you're ready, then it's time to go. We're never ready, chase, we're never ready. And people talk about especially for women, about the glass ceiling, but it's the sticky floor, it's. We're just stuck to the floor waiting for the right moment, when we have all the credentials, all the qualifications, the timing's right, we got the money, we got the time. It never arrives and that's what stops us from starting.

06:55 It's either fear, time, money or your inner critic. You know, chatting to you back there. When you're able to look at fear and understand it's going to be with you your entire life. People talk about conquer your fears. That's not going to happen. Your fear is a passenger in your car, with you the whole time. So take it with you and start to learn from it. And what I advise people to do is fail first, and it freaks people out. But if you're afraid of failing, do the biggest thing first fail, see that you survive it and then learn from it and keep going, because it's it's like what's going to happen if we fail Are we going to crumble, are we going to disintegrate? Are we going to die destitute and alone.

07:42 - Chase (Host) All those things have come into my own head, Maybe, maybe, but that's only if we let them right.

07:47 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right.

07:48 - Chase (Host) These are kind of always worst case scenarios that in my experience, uh, I haven't really seen happen. No right.

07:55 - Anne-Marie (Guest) No, I tell people to catastrophize. Catastrophize your biggest fear. So if I can give you an example, I'm a broadcaster and my first I was a producer at ESPN for more than a decade. Then I decided I wanted to go on air. It's kind of an unusual way to go about it. So my first time on air was supposed to be on like a regional television football game, but some things happened. Somebody was unable to do it and I got put on ESPN2 opening weekend of college football my first time ever on live television right 78 million homes 78

08:29 million, 78 million homes is what ESPN2 was in First time ever live. And I think that the higher ups at ESPN, just because I'd always been producing, you know, super Bowl coverage and Olympics, I don't know, I don't think they realized it was my first time. I was in a complete panic outside the stadium, sobbing before going on air. Just what you want from your sideline reporter, like forget about makeup, right. Like it's all just brushing down ugly cry. And I was sobbing to my husband and saying like this is going to be horrible.

09:01 I can't do this, and so he tries to calm me down. He says, well, what's the worst that can happen? We all love that scenario, especially when you're afraid of fear because we've got ideas of what's the worst.

09:12 - Chase (Host) Or like I wasn't thinking about that, but I am now.

09:19 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Thanks a lot, exactly. And so I said, okay, here's what can happen. I can be so bad on air, so bad that not only will I never be on air again, but I'll also never be able to produce again, because the people I produce for who are all the big names will say I'm not going to listen to her, she can't do this, so I'll lose my whole career in television. And if I lose my whole career in television, I'm going to be a miserable person. And if I'm a miserable person, you can't stay with me, because I won't be able to be a good mother to our children who aren't even born yet. I won't be able to be a good mother to our children who aren't even born yet, and I will die destitute and alone, without a family or a job.

09:55 And he was like wow, you really went there. And I was like, yeah, of course that didn't happen. And I was like, yeah, of course that didn't happen. But I went on air and I was bad, I was choppy, I was everything I feared, and I survived. And that taught me a great lesson, because the next week I went on again and I was just as bad, but it wasn't the first time.

10:28 - Chase (Host) And so, being able to come back time and time again proved that that catastrophe never happened. Thank you for sharing that. Anytime we relive difficult periods of our life or quite literally, the most challenging, the most novel, the most fearful you're quite literally kind of reliving it. In a sense, you've come a long way and you're doing just fine now, so which is, I think, a testament to what really awaits us on the other side of fear.

10:59 I like to consider and I would be curious your take on this the alternative to fear is, uh, I think, another big card and what keeps people from taking action, and it's you catastrophize everything, right. But it's also the fear of what if I really am successful? Right, what if I crush this interview? Or what if? What if I do okay, but it's okay enough to get me the next opportunity to show me how to get better? And then I do advance and I and then, all of a sudden, I'm the thing, I'm the person that I always wanted. There's a level of fear. No, that comes with. What if I actually succeed, not just what if I fail.

11:36 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right, and the measure of succeeding, success right, Is measured differently from everybody. So if you are, let's say you succeed. What's the fear of the success? Are you afraid that people are going to come after you? They are. Are you afraid that you're going to be successful and then make a mistake that's going to cost you everything? Well, you're going to make a mistake. So some of it is that fear of success because you you have an idea of what perfection is going to look like when you succeed.

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14:36 - Anne-Marie (Guest) The whole thing is a continuum. Chase right. Failure to success is an absolute continuum, is an absolute continuum. So for me, you're never going to reach like where success if you have the number one podcast, is that success? You'll still feel shaky because now everybody's coming for you. So it's a matter of reframing our ideas of failure and success.

15:00 - Chase (Host) Cannot agree more, cannot agree more, and there's some great examples in there of, I think, what keeps us from starting. But I want to ask you just directly what do you think is the biggest thing, or a couple of the biggest things, that keeps anybody from starting anything?

15:17 - Anne-Marie (Guest) It's the fear of I'm not going to succeed, or the fear of maybe my circle my friends or the fear of maybe my circle, my friends, my family, my colleagues won't like me. My relationships won't be the same if I succeed. I think I see that a lot for people.

15:33 - Chase (Host) You think it's more of that inner circle kind of community ripple that is keeping people from starting their biggest endeavors?

15:39 - Anne-Marie (Guest) At times yeah, because I think you don't want things to change around you, and the fact is, things will change. You'll find out some friends, some family who can really hang with you as you continue to succeed and risk, and there's some that are just going to fall away and you have to live with that. And that happened with me as well, where there were people who were like, yeah, you should try it, you should go, and then, once I started to have success, I would feel a little envy or jealousy or whatever it is. It's disappointing, it hurts, but I think for a lot of us, we want to stay in our box.

16:13 - Chase (Host) What would you recommend anyone to do? Because the fear of starting is big enough enough, is big enough already for a lot of us. But then what I'm kind of hearing you say is we tend to kind of take on the fear of other people, the fear of others of how they're going to change or how this dynamic might change between us, because of me taking action with something I want in my life and for my life. So how do we really parse and navigate the fear, our own fear, compared to the influence of fear of other people that we genuinely care about? Do we prioritize them? Do we go about them differently, or fear is fear is fear is fear?

16:51 - Anne-Marie (Guest) No, I think. I think you create a front row. This is a key concept for me in my life and my book. Everything in a front row are the people who are also doing big things, and it may not be your mom, it may not be your best friend, because they want you to stay safe, understandably. So your front row are people who are either doing big things on their own doesn't even have to be your same field, it can be people who are where you want to be, some mentors who you can reach out to. But your front row is gonna tell you the truth. They're gonna push you forward, they're going to lift you up right, and they're going to reevaluate with you. And it's critical to have that front row. And everybody else is still around. Your friends are still around, but the front row is who you go to for advice and who you go to for consolation and who you go to for ideas and brainstorming, because you can't control what everybody's going to think.

17:46 Our fear with other people changing it's about fear of judgment. Right, somebody's going to judge us. They're going to think for me, going on air was like who does she think she is that she could go on camera and people are going to listen to her. Or it can be, you know, he's getting too big for his britches now that he's got this kind of success. That's that's their problem. That is, you know, my father. Once my father was the greatest right, just a huge cheerleader of me.

18:19 - Chase (Host) One time he said, when I was 11, I Emory you're getting a little bit cocky.

18:21 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Poor man At 11? At 11. Who knows what it was held on to it forever literally as I was writing the book.

18:27 I looked up the definition of cocky one day. I was like I'm just gonna look it up. The definition of cocky is so sure of one's abilities that it annoys other people. And I was like, wait a second. So sure of one's abilities? Yes, I'm sure of my abilities that it annoys other people. Well, as my teenagers would say, that's OPP, that's other people's problems. And that shifted everything for me, because we're letting other people's feelings about what we're doing stop us from doing the thing.

18:58 - Chase (Host) Yeah, what if we don't have fear about starting something? But we have this front row to these people, these friends, advisors, that we really value and trust, and if they're being honest I hope they are they present reasonable, rational fears. For, hey, maybe now's not the right time, or maybe you should do this before that, or have you thought about this? When is it pertinent to take on the fears of trusted other people? Is that ever the case? Should we ever let other people's fears become our own fears or just take them under consideration?

19:34 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I think you have to examine all of it. Is it really for your front row If they're carefully curated? Is it their fears or are they giving you different scenarios? Because if they're putting their fears on you fear of failure, for example, or exposure, or embarrassment maybe they shouldn't be in your front row. Now, if they're giving you real advice, hey, chase, I like the idea, but here's something for you to consider. Here's something for you to consider financially, whatever it is. That's why they're in your front row.

20:08 - Chase (Host) Right.

20:09 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Because they're going to tell you the truth. Everybody's coming at you from a lens. That's why I said it's not your mom and it's not your best friend, because they just want you to be safe and maybe they have a fear of whatever public speaking being exposed. Starting a family, as you talked about earlier. So if it's fears, no, don't take on somebody else's fears. But if your front row is telling you their fears, they may not be the right people for your front rows. This is your board of directors. As your front row, it's their role to present ideas to you, including potential pitfalls.

20:46 - Chase (Host) Cannot agree more. Cannot agree more. So let's say, you know, we've navigated our fears, we've gone through the advice and separated fears of this front row committee in our life and we're taking action. We start the side hustle, we apply for this job, whatever that thing is that we're here to advance forward in. Once we're there, I think it's human nature to just go all right, don't screw this up, don't fail, and I think to some degree that can help drive us, that can give us motivation. You know, the fear of failing can work to our advantage. But how would you recommend navigating that relationship of fear once we do get started, in a healthy way?

21:28 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Well, let's talk about failure first. What's the definition of failure?

21:33 - Chase (Host) That's why you're here Right In any particular endeavor.

21:37 - Anne-Marie (Guest) What's the definition of failure? So, as I said, for me on air for the first time, failure was being bad at it, being exposed, being judged, being embarrassed All that happened right, You're going to be bad your first time on television, much less your first time on television in 78 million homes, or whatever it is. So if that's failure, then I failed and got up and did it again, and each time I did it I was still bad the second, the 15th, whatever it is but you're getting a little bit of information. So honestly, Chase, I don't believe in failure. Like failure is just all data to me, information for me. Now, this is why I'm saying don't take your life savings and, you know, bet it all. There's a certain component that I call packing your parachute, where you and I say to people parachute is not to bail on your dreams, by the way, it's to ensure a softer landing.

22:29 - Chase (Host) Oh, I like that. I like that. It's a good reminder.

22:32 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah. So failure? There is really just data, and when you're packing your parachute, it means you've got your systems in place, you've got your front row, you're making smart financial decisions, smart decisions with your time as well. So I guess I just don't believe in actual failure. It's just all information to help me move forward in the next process.

22:59 - Chase (Host) I want to go back to what you're talking about of really defining failure. I think it's so helpful for us to understand, to really think about a map out okay, this is what I'm afraid of, this is what fear could look like in terms of failure for this endeavor and get very granular to this could define failure. This could be a failure. This could be a failure so that we kind of maybe know what to look out for, how to, to your point, you know, build a parachute, build a contingency plan for this soft landing. So walk us through, if you can, even more of how do we really define unique failures for each unique situation and to plan accordingly.

23:38 - Anne-Marie (Guest) So I think the first thing you got to do is just make friends with fear.

23:43 - Chase (Host) Okay.

23:44 - Anne-Marie (Guest) If you make friends with fear and realize it doesn't get to make decisions, it doesn't drive you, but it is always going to be a passenger, and stop using all that energy to push it away. I think we do that all the time, like, oh you know, conquer your fears, push your fears, overcome your fears. Look, they're a passenger in your life for the entire time and they can help guide you. Then, if we want to use the word failure, right then what does it mean? And I guess we're going to have to redefine that, because if you want to use the word failure, then we need to know are you going to fail forward? Are you going to learn something from each time it doesn't go your way?

24:24 - Chase (Host) Please go deeper here. I think so many of us have this idea of if I fail, that automatically means I'm taking a step back, I'm regressing in my goals and in my life. How do we adopt this mentality, and what does it really look like to choose to fail forward?

24:38 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right, it requires audacity. Right, the willingness to take forward, right it's. It requires audacity, right, the willingness to take a bold risk. And what's going to happen there is, you need to put away other people's ideas of what it should look like and have a very clear vision of your next step. So let's say you start a podcast, okay, and it's not going well. You don't have your audience, you are having a hard time getting guests. Well, you don't just quit on that, but you do need to have the data. Maybe you go to your front row and say you know, do you have any ideas how to get better, how to get more guests and stuff. But it is a mind shift big time in terms of failure. I'll give you a different example.

25:20 I was working with somebody who wanted to become a commercial real estate agent. He was in business and this is something he felt would give him more flexibility, a bit greater income, all that. So when we talked, I said what's the issue? And he said, well, I need to study for the test. I'm afraid I'm going to fail the test. Okay, test is $60. There is no limit to how many times you can take the test. So I said, okay, so just go take the test and he goes. Well, I'll fail.

25:49 And I said I understand he goes. You want me to fail on purpose? I said no, but if failure is what's stopping you, I assume you're going to fail the test because you haven't studied. So get that out of the way. So he took the test. He failed. He was like see, I told you I failed. I said great, now that's out of the way. What's the next fear? You don't have enough time? Worked with his family on it, how he created an hour block each day, which I believe you need to have For him. It was two half hour segments before the kids got up and when the kids were in the bath, so he could be out for book and bed, as every parent knows.

26:25 - Chase (Host) You know I'll be there soon. I'll be there soon. It's going to be amazing bath book bed at the end of every night. That sounds great. I want that in my life.

26:28 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I should have that, I know exactly what you're about to have it in your life. So once he was able to carve out that time, then he was able to study for the test, took it again, failed again okay, learned where he was most efficient, refined his studying process, took it again, succeeded, passed the test, left his other job. He's a commercial real estate agent doing well, very, very well now. But those two times failing the test he recalibrated in his head. That's information for him and that's the way he was able to fail forward, expected to fail the first time, second time failed, learned from it data-wise and went back a third time.

27:12 - Chase (Host) This brings me home to this kind of third concept I had in mind, and that's the inevitable failure. Yeah, I can't think of anybody. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if you have. But they chose to do something, they started it and it went just perfectly. Anything and everything they had in mind of what this is going to look like, feel like success, whatever it looks, it just, it just worked. I don't know anyone like that. If you do, please let me know. But so if we can just wrap our head around, kind of like your example of your friend here, this inevitable failure that is going to happen If we choose to get out of bed today, there's going to be a failure in some capacity. So how do we accept this inevitable failure as part of the journey to life and success and how do we use it to our advantage, even navigate through it?

27:56 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right. Well, if you're not failing, you're not doing enough. So that's the first thing I'll say If you have big goals, if you're perfectly content with every area of your life, good for you. I don't know people who really are, but if you're not failing, you're not pushing enough. And I ask people to look at three different components in their life. There's an assessment in the back of the book and it goes on. First part is career, professional life, then health and wellness, and then your relationships, romantic, friendships, familial, whatever it is. And this assessment to help you determine where in your life you need maybe to be the most audacious, to risk the most. After I wrote the assessment, I took it right. I took my own assessment Career, professional, going really well.

28:40 Health and wellness. The assessment I took it right. I took my own assessment. Career professional going really well. Health and wellness I'm doing a good job. Relationships I was spending so much time right on my career and and then, of course, taking care of myself as well that I was loose in touch with some of my friends.

28:57 - Chase (Host) Yeah, how did you know that? How did you kind of quantify that? Was it a just? Did you have a metric, this you know kind of assessment in the book you're talking about, or was it just like a feeling? More quantitative or qualitative Relationships can be tricky to really measure. Am I succeeding or failing Right To be objective about them yourself.

29:13 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right, exactly, no, it's. I mean, it's point scoring Once you take the assessment and you go through and you're asking yourself about your feelings of connection with people, about how much time you're spending connect, how much you're getting back. You know any of that. There's an assessment and it's literally just point scoring. And you can see like professional and career points were good, health and wellness points were good, relationships points were not good, so what did you do about that?

29:42 so I made more time, conscious time, the scheduling time to be with community, with friends, with my children, always had enough time there. But I did get better about turning everything off, like, don't even think about calling me when I'm with my kids, you will not get ahold of me because I travel so much. And then I would literally be very conscious in calling friends up because I needed to reconnect, like they were still there but they'd been blown off by me enough times that I needed to reconnect and say, hey, do you have time for lunch in the next two weeks? Or hey, you want to do a FaceTime wine across the country?

30:19 - Chase (Host) And I think, but scheduling that, the same way I scheduled my workouts, the same way I scheduled my career, yeah, hey friends, quick break from a conversation with Anne-Marie to bring your attention to something that I just cannot not talk about Now. Throughout the years I have tried a lot of different things. I've done different diets, different workouts, tried different healthy habits, and I am really dialed in right now with my day-to-day wellness routine, and with that comes key supplementation, of course. After I get my hydration, my sleep, my activity, all where I want them to be, supplements should be just that supplement, what you are already doing. And if I had to pick one supplement to take daily for the rest of my life, if I had to ditch everything else and can only take one no lie, it would be MitoPure from today's sponsor, timeline Nutrition.

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32:11 If you want to save 10% off your purchase, just make sure to use code EVER4 to check out when you head to TimelineNutritioncom slash EVER4. Head to timelinenutritioncom slash everforward, linked for you as always in the show notes today under episode resources. But again, that's timelinenutritioncom slash everforward Code everforward at checkout to save an additional 10%. That's so important. I'm really glad to hear that's working for you, because I do something similar and it's paramount. Social relationships, our community, are everything. And to our earlier point, your earlier point if we're not prioritizing that, then how are we going to have that committee, that front row committee? You know to be that sounding board. You know to get the advice to navigate the fears it all matters, it all matters.

32:57 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Well, if I can go, the our surgeon general talked about a loneliness epidemic in this country right, because you can have dinner delivered to your door. You can ask chat, gpt how to run your business. I mean, you don't need to leave anymore, and so that's part of what the front row does is create significance, right, significance is value and worth. So when you're asking someone and I recommend Chase, actually using the words hey, here's something I want to do, will you be in my front row?

33:22 - Chase (Host) Okay.

33:22 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Will you be in my front row?

33:24 - Chase (Host) So naming it, labeling it, it's also kind of like giving an authority and a position to people.

33:29 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Exactly A value, a worth, a role. So now you're reestablishing social connections as well, which fights that loneliness epidemic. And when we have value in any position, whether it's in our job and our family or in our friendships, when we have value, then we're invested. When you tell somebody, hey, jace, I want to do this and it's a little scary for me, and will you be in my front row, well, all of a sudden now you're invested in what I'm trying to do. Hopefully it's reciprocal, right. And now you have combated a little bit of the loneliness epidemic, you've created significance, you've strengthened your social connections, so it all weaves together.

34:09 - Chase (Host) And just communicating stuff like that, I think, can go a long way to your point of reducing fear in relationships. Because how many of us you know, as as life goes on, life gets busier and we, you know, we fear like, oh, we were such close friends, I'm afraid we're not going to be as close or we're drifting apart, or did I do something wrong? Um, but just keeping that little thread of communication can really mitigate or eliminate even a lot of that fear in other people's minds about what we're up to and how we can stay together. Does this tie into another concept in the work in the book? Is, you know, ego and kind of recognizing ego, befriending ego, just checking it, bringing it into the concept of fear and taking bold action? What role does ego take and why is it important to keep it at the table?

34:57 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right. Well, we learned about it. Ego and super ego, right, as we were all, graham. So the it is when your, your being, says I got this awesome idea, let's, you know, do this, and your superego is saying oh, that's, that's too risky, that's really scary, that's something that you know. You're just better off being safe because your, your super ego, is kind of like your inner critic and your ego is trying to find a reasonable way to satisfy both okay okay.

35:27 It's trying to say I see where you're going with the big idea. However, I see what you're saying about the risk yeah, over here and how we're going to make it work, and so ego. I think a lot of us thought was you know, oh, my big ego and I'm the I'm greatest. I don't see ego that way. I see ego as trying to navigate the safest route for us to our dreams, while still being somewhat safe and pushing. So it's important to recognize all of that, the voice in our head, right, that inner critic. Some people don't really acknowledge it or they think that's them. You know that voice that's saying the negative things.

36:06 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

36:07 - Anne-Marie (Guest) It's, it's not you. I picked up my daughter who 11 years old, from school and I was like, hey, how's school today? And she's like, well, I'm stupid, I can't do math and oh, by the way, I'm fat and I was like yo sis, like that middle school age, and so we had the discussion which always starts with would you say that to me, would you say that to your friends? And the answer is always, of course not. I would never go to somebody and be like you're stupid, you can't do math and you're fat.

36:34 I was like okay, so we're pretty clear that that's not you saying that. So let's separate that inner voice from ourselves and give it a name so that we're not saying it's Chase talking to Chase. So she picked the name Jerry and I said great. And I said what would you tell Jerry if he tells you all those things? And she said I would say shut up Jerry. And I said exactly. So let's understand that Jerry's going to be talking to you.

37:02 There might be a nugget of truth in there once in a while, so you can be curious about it without being emotional about it. And then recognize, once that's separated, are you really getting any help from your inner critic? Usually not, and so still, when I hear her in the other room and she's doing her homework and she goes oh, I can't do this, I'll yell shut up Jerry from, like the other room. And she'll be like that's fine, fine. But it's that recognition of the voice and I think a lot of us let it play in a loop in the background, bring it forward and say okay, say it. What do you? What have you got? Hmm, that's not helpful. I have an answer back If you can create a dialogue with your inner voice to say that's not really helpful right now. Or I'll take it under consideration, or you might be right, I'll look into it. But recognizing it's not the driver of us, it's just more information.

38:01 - Chase (Host) Now what about if we come up against a similar feeling, but it's more intuition?

38:06 - Anne-Marie (Guest) instead of.

38:07 - Chase (Host) Jerry, you know how do we navigate and differentiate between the voice in the back of our head, that fear driver, and that gut check intuitive response of hey, maybe this really is or is not the right course of action.

38:20 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right, I think it's all about creating all the possible outcomes and the action plans of it. So let's say it's your intuition, it doesn't feel good to put this much money into a particular venture. Okay, that's your intuition telling you. So let's figure out a different way and you're going to back that up.

38:41 - Chase (Host) Is that more of a feeling, or how do we really kind of tap in and go? Is there certainty to have to be had of intuition versus fear?

38:50 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right, well, do the data of it? Is intuition telling you it? Financially, that's a risk that doesn't make sense to me. That's not just fear. If you're figuring out, okay, if this doesn't work right now this way, it will put me in jeopardy with my finances, with my home, with whatever you got to listen to that. If your fear becomes something more ethereal or something about a reaction externally by somebody else, that's definitely a fear. That's not an intuition. If I do this, I'm going to look silly. No, that's not intuition, that's a fear. If I do this, I'm going to have and it doesn't work, I'm going to have trouble paying my rent. That's something that needs to be examined in a different way in intuition. And remember, you've got your front row to bounce things off of Carefully curated doesn't need to be a lot of people, but they need to be people going. I don't know. I'm feeling a little uncertain about this. What do you think? And they may be able to offer some ideas for you to explore your intuition a little bit further and dissect.

39:59 Is it really intuition or is it one of your fears, kind of coming up and masquerading as oh? You should definitely listen to me.

40:08 - Chase (Host) I love that aspect of an invitation to explore.

40:10 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yes.

40:11 - Chase (Host) If we can do that with and for ourselves, but, you know, be that sounding board for other people. If we can invite the, let me say that again. If we can invite the, let me say that again. If we can invite the exploration of what we're feeling, of what we're fearful of, that is a very, I think, productive environment to be in.

40:29 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yes, I agree Because, again, when we think about fear in general, the way that we've been taught, it's about pushing it away, where I'm saying bring it in and get curious about it. What am I afraid of? And then explore that. Are you afraid of losing your life savings? Well, that's a big problem and that's more than just a fear. That's something that needs to be mitigated. Are you afraid of being judged by whom you know? By somebody sitting on their mother's couch in the basement eating chips while they're judging you taking action? Why are you giving them a vote or a voice? You know, my friend Laura Gassner-Otting says don't give a vote to anyone who shouldn't even have a voice.

41:09 - Chase (Host) LGO. She's a friend of the show she's been on before.

41:11 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah, she's wonderful and that's one of her key concepts and I think it's really true Like why would you allow them to have a vote in your life if they're not trying to do big things themselves?

41:24 - Chase (Host) That's, uh, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna leave that right there. That's so perfect, so perfect. Uh, you know you brought up this word a couple of times already and that's, you know, the forefront of the book, the title, even your audacity. That's not a very common word. Um, what do you mean by it, what is your definition of it and why is it so important when we're talking about understanding fear and overcoming fear and letting the impediment to action become action?

41:46 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Audacity in this country has had sometimes a negative connotation, right so? The nerve, the audacity, yeah, like my parents would say to me occasionally you have the audacity to ask me that or whatever it is. That's where it came up. I was like mom, good job by you. But when you look up audacity, it's the willingness to take bold risks. I don't believe that we're necessarily born with that willingness to take bold risks. That's why I called the book Cultivating Audacity because you need to grow it, you need to practice it.

42:15 - Chase (Host) So it's not something we either have or don't have. It's something that anyone can invite in and grow it.

42:22 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yes, exactly. And I think a lot of people will say well, you're so brave, especially in my career. Now, well, you, you're so brave, are you kidding? I was so shy. I'm an introvert by nature, even though I talk for a living.

42:35 And so what I learned in exploring my own audacity and redefining it, this willingness to take bold, sometimes surprising risks is that it comes in three components. And there is the mindset, an audacious mindset, which is really just about optimism, chase, like, if you're playing in a basketball game and you're losing by 12 at the half, why do you come out for the second half? Because you're thinking maybe if we get our offense together, if our defense is better, we might win. We might not, but I'm going to survive the outcome either way. And that's the mindset, that optimism of knowing, no matter what happens, we're going to survive. We're not going to die destitute and alone. So the mindset. But you can be optimistic all day long and nothing's going to happen if you're sitting on the couch. So the second is audacious behavior, and a lot of people will stop right there saying I want to be whatever, but don't take the action toward it.

43:27 So audacious behavior is where the real practice comes Good distinguishing trait there and it can be very small and you can start immediately with the word no to something where you would have normally said yes or you would have said no, I can't because and give this long explanation why it can just be no. But when I'm coaching people I'm saying do something unexpected today in your behavior. Maybe it's reaching out to somebody who's doing what you want to do and see if they respond to you. If you're reaching out to them on social media or whatever it is, people kind of tend to want to help sometimes and by reaching out to them you'll get a lot of rejections. That's okay, but maybe somebody will help.

44:12 So do something behaviorally. The third component is the audacious identity and that's when you marry the first two the behavior, the mindset and the behavior consistently, when you consistently have that optimism and you can consistently take action. That's when you go from what is Chase doing to that's Chase. He swings for the fences. That's the way it goes and that audacious identity is where you really start to cultivate.

44:41 - Chase (Host) I did bat fourth. There we go Growing up, so I was always swinging for the fences.

44:46 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I love that yes.

44:48 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I played baseball my whole life, my whole childhood.

44:50 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah, cleanup is definitely an audacious spot.

44:55 - Chase (Host) So you also talk about this concept of time versus money, and I think that's a very fearful component, or two components, when we're thinking about starting something or even scaling something, taking that thing to the next level. Right, do I have the right amount of time, do I have the money? Or I might have both now, but what is it going to cost me in time later? Was it going to cost me money later? How do we weigh to cost me money later? How do we weigh this time versus money so that we can really assess our tasks and get things done this year more?

45:25 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Right. That's two huge reasons why people wait to be audacious when I have more time, when I have more money. So two components. Let's talk about time for a second Life is urgent. We have this urgency fallacy that anything that's urgent is really important and it tends to not be honestly the urgent stuff answer the text, the email, sign the permission slip, whatever it is for your kid, it needs to be done. But things that are urgent by nature are reactive. You ask me for something, I'm going to get it to you.

45:56 Things that are important move us forward closer to our values, visions, goals. I'm going to get it to you Things that are important. Move us forward, closer to our values, visions, goals, who we want to be. They require a little more consideration and careful planning, and we all like to check things off our list.

46:09 - Chase (Host) Love it Right, love it how many of us add things to our to-do list that we know we're going to do no matter what, or raise my hand here, I've already done these but I just want to look and see like, oh yeah, I did do that, I did do that. Oh, that feels good. That feels good. Yeah, yes, I'm the same way. You'll add it in.

46:26 - Anne-Marie (Guest) You'll be like, oh and then, by the way, I did this, so I'm going to put it there and cross it off. So there's that satisfaction and there's an imposing and pending deadline for things that are important. Oftentimes there's not a deadline, right, it's about you moving forward in your goals, but there's consequences if you don't do them. So the first thing I tell people is differentiate between urgent and important.

46:48 - Chase (Host) Okay.

46:49 - Anne-Marie (Guest) And you need to make room for important, because if you are waiting until you take care of your urgent stuff, it never ends. Urgent never ends. Your urgent stuff, it never ends, urgent never ends. And so if you're trying to create something new, trying to move yourself forward, you need to schedule time for important, which means you shut everything down. So for me, for writing the book, I thought, well, I'm going to get up at 430 every morning and write for an hour before the kids get up, which I did, and it was horrible why.

47:17 I was exhausted, so you weren't already getting up at that time. No, I don kids get up, which I did, and it was horrible why I was exhausted.

47:19 - Chase (Host) So you weren't already getting up at that time? No, I don't get up at four 30 in the morning and everything.

47:24 - Anne-Marie (Guest) So I was exhausted every day. And then, if I had cause I'm still a working broadcaster. So if I had an eight o'clock game at night, forget it, you know, by the time the kids would ask me for dinner I'd be, like you know, grumpy. So I needed a different system for so what worked for me was four 15 minute blocks. I literally wrote my book in 15 minute blocks.

47:43 - Chase (Host) Four 15 minute blocks. So you just found 15 minute pockets throughout your day. I scheduled them. Wow, wow.

47:49 - Anne-Marie (Guest) So I would have an alarm go off on my phone and as soon as it went off I would turn off my phone, set a timer for 15 minutes and write. And let me tell you, when you have three kids, sometimes that happens in the bathroom because you can lock all the doors and you're in there and the kids are like mom, I'm hungry and I'm like same. You know I'll be out in 15 because that's not an emergency, right, your kid being hungry, I will feed you in 15 minutes and that's the way I did. Other people do 20-minute blocks. I told you about somebody else I worked with who did two half-hour blocks. But once you schedule that time and it's non-negotiable to reply to a text can wait 15 minutes. Right, for an email 15 minutes. Everything can wait. 15 minutes is my theory. So that's the first component is finding that For money, what I learned eventually is that money is really energy.

48:39 They talk about money is time, money is energy. We all have our money stories that we grew up with and you have to look through those, and I have a whole section in the book where you're digging into your money story and your attitude toward it. Some people don't even want to look at their money. They don't even want to look at the bank balance and I literally work it in, like when you're brushing your teeth. Take a look every day and be grateful for what it is. If it's $10, thank you $10,. If it's a thousand dollars, whatever it is that's in there. But the next component with money is recognizing. Sometimes you need to buy back energy or buy back time.

49:15 - Chase (Host) What do you mean by that?

49:16 - Anne-Marie (Guest) So for me, I'm a working broadcaster, I'm an author, I'm a keynote speaker and a mother of three, so I don't know why I thought about writing a book with all of this going on.

49:25 - Chase (Host) Yeah, why not?

49:26 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Why not? And so I was overwhelmed early on and I realized that I was going to have to part with some of my money because I'm a saver. This is the way I grew up was holding it tight and spend some money on somebody to help me with the aspects of my day that I don't enjoy, and I did it in a couple of different ways. One I don't like doing the contracts, writing up the contracts, chasing down payment, any of that. So I have an assistant who did that for me when the kids were younger, and it was a big thing for me because I always had like I want to raise my kids.

49:59 - Chase (Host) Who doesn't?

49:59 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah, Well, there are some, I think but, but I want to raise my kids, so I don't want to have a nanny or an au pair or this or that. And then I realized I needed an au pair to take care of the things that I didn't want to do, to free me up, to spend more time with my kids.

50:16 So, for me, my au pair. She would go grocery shopping and she would prep dinner. I liked to cook dinner, so she would prep the food, so I'd come in like a you know a chef. The kids would be there, I'd cook.

50:28 - Chase (Host) Yeah, a sous chef had it all lined up for you, exactly.

50:31 - Anne-Marie (Guest) We'd eat dinner and then I would walk away from the table. She would do the dishes because I'd go up to do bath book and bed. So I bought back more time with my kids and less time doing things I didn't want to do, and that's the way we can use money to buy back energy and time for the things that are important to us.

50:52 - Chase (Host) That, I think, is one of the most difficult concepts for people, especially new entrepreneurs or growing entrepreneurs, myself included, over the years of just like, what do you mean? I don't have enough money to do the things, but you're telling me, if I spend money that I maybe don't have or I'm fearful of going away to get back the time, I can generate more money or generate more joy. I'm here to tell you, friends, it absolutely works out If you just get granular with the priorities and what you're going to do. Don't spend money to get back time and then squander it. Have a plan in place that time will generate more money, so you can just kind of feed the machine more and more and get back to the things that matter most.

51:34 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yes, as soon as I hired the assistant to take care of the contracts and the payment and all of that, I was able to spend more time prospecting speaking gigs, which increased my income, which meant I could pay her with no problem and still have excess.

51:47 - Chase (Host) Love it, love it. Okay, so I have a couple of quotes. I looked up failure and I want to kind of just get your take on them.

51:53 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Let's go.

51:55 - Chase (Host) Truman Capote Failure is the cond gives success. It's flavor. How does that land on you?

52:01 - Anne-Marie (Guest) It lands beautifully. Because here's the deal how would you know you're successful if you haven't experienced failure? How would you know, like for being on air, for example, if I was bad? How would I ever know that I had improved if I hadn't really dug in and been bad? So I, I completely agree, agree. And it's been bad. So I, I completely agree, agree.

52:20 And it's not ketchup, it's mustard, by the way, because ketchup's all sugary and this and that, and mustard has a little bit of a tang, a little bit of sour in there and it's pure, it's pure. Right, I mean a little sour with the failure, but then it sweetens the outcome. So, truman Capote, right on.

52:35 - Chase (Host) I'm team mustard over here. I love the incorporation of the flavor in there as well.

52:39 - Anne-Marie (Guest) He said condiments, so I mean ketchup's. Not a real thing for me.

52:43 - Chase (Host) Winston Churchill quote success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

52:50 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Oh, I love that. I love that, Isn't it? Because each failure and again you know, I've kind of eliminated the word failure from my life, meaning anything other than like information or data, but going from failure to failure is information and it's not a straight line success, right? So you go here, oh, that didn't work. Here, oh, until you reach your final destination, which is never really final, it's not real.

53:18 - Chase (Host) Yeah, that's not really final, you just keep growing.

53:20 - Anne-Marie (Guest) But people like to say when, once you get to, when you realize, no, I'm not done in any way. So I love that. It is taking those moments when things don't go the way you want. How about that? I'll call that failure. When things don't go the way you want, and learning from them. It's not a period at the end of the sentence, it's just a comma redirecting you. That's all it is.

53:44 - Chase (Host) Turn the page, my friends, turn the page. You got a blank one waiting for you. All right, this one, I thought would be more up your alley, mr Michael Jordan, all right, oh yeah, I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

54:09 - Anne-Marie (Guest) That's right.

54:10 I like to tell people I failed more times than you tried when people are thinking about it because what they see right is the tip of the iceberg. If you picture an iceberg, they see this much and under the water is all of this. So people will say to me occasionally I want to be on television. How do I get good? Well, you get good by failing repeatedly and surviving and getting information. People want to see Michael Jordan and say he's the greatest of all time. What happened there? Well, he got cut in junior high from basketball team. He didn't make the team. So it is about getting up every time and taking all of those failures, all that information, with you to go. 26 times he's missed the shot. How many times has he made the game winning shot times? He's missed the shot.

54:59 - Chase (Host) How many times has he made the game winning shot? Hundreds. And you know I'm not the biggest sports guy, but I know Michael Jordan. Um, fun fact, I went to middle school with JJ Redick.

55:07 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Oh, is that right?

55:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah I used to watch him.

55:19 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I think he was a grade above me, but uh, yeah, now he's the coach here LA. And um, yeah, Shout out, cave spring middle school back in Roanoke, Virginia. Yeah, Let me say one other thing about Michael Jordan. So I covered Jordan a lot when I was a producer at ESPN, including when he went to go to baseball. You remember when he did the little foray?

55:28 - Chase (Host) Of course, which a lot of people would say that was a failure in his career.

55:32 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah Right, no way Right. He needed to try something different, and what excited him was being the newbie again and not being just the expert in something, and the way that he put himself in a position to fail publicly. Right, because people will say, oh, he's not good, but he blocked all that out. Kobe was another tremendous one at blocking everybody out. I was a Los Angeles Bureau producer for ESPN for many years, including Kobe's first day in LA.

56:04 - Chase (Host) You covered Kobe's first day. Yes, oh, wow.

56:06 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Oh, I covered Kobe forever. So his very first day in practice, we were there for the press conference too. I mean, he's a teenager, so we're in practice. It's an open practice for media. He comes in and I think we all had this idea that he would come in and kiss the ring Like he's. He's a teenager and he was going to be maybe a little unsure defer to the other guys and he didn't. I mean, Kobe Bryant is exactly who you think he was. He. He came in confident of his abilities there, Didn't kiss the ring, Media loved it.

56:39 At what 17, right 17 when he was signed. Yeah, I think he was 18 by the time he showed up for his first practice, but 17 when he was signed Media loved it. Of course, it ruffled some feathers for his teammates, but the fact that he was able to come in and recognize that there were going to be a lot of critics within his area and in the locker room there was some animosity towards him, but he kept focused on what he was doing and eventually right, it worked out. He and Shaquille O'Neal learned how to work together. They won championships together. So it's a matter of like keeping your ideas of who you are and blocking out the noise in every way. Jordan did it with baseball, Kobe did it with being a young teenager. We can all do it in any aspect of our lives and say here's what I'm going to do. There's going to be critics, that's okay.

57:34 - Chase (Host) And you know, thinking of the greats, the goats. You know, like Kobe, jordan, anybody in their field, steve Jobs. You know anybody who's at the top of their game. I want to get your take on this concept of how our fear could actually be the most selfish thing in the world. What I mean by that is what if Jordan, because of his fear, stopped after he got cut in high school? What if Kobe let the fear of I'm only 17 going into NBA? What if? What if he stopped playing? What if jobs didn't invent the iPhone? What if the person listening right now has the next great idea, but their fear of starting or sharing or introducing it to the world is keeping them there? Think about what it is doing for society. How many other people did Jordan and Kobe and Steve Jobs, all these other people like inspire to take action. Walk us through. This concept of our fear can actually be selfish.

58:33 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yes, and my question would be like what is the fear of Right? So for Jordan, let's say right, he got cut and decided not to go. What was the fear of? Is the fear of getting cut again? Is that what it is, Of failing again? Because I think when you get curious about your fear, then it can kind of open things up for you. So I think there's a responsibility for all of us to kind of create I don't know a more connected community, certainly just not for our kids, but by way of saying, hey, I tried this, it didn't work. Other people can learn from your experience. I tried this, this worked. Other people can learn from your experience. So, selfishly, if you shut it down, your great ideas, you're not just limiting yourself, You're limiting other people who are trying to do the same thing or trying to expand on that idea. So, yeah, it is selfish because you're denying the world your lessons.

59:34 - Chase (Host) And you know, yourself included. I mean think about how many other young budding female broadcasters, sports journalists or anybody in the media field maybe found you, saw you do your thing and that inspired them to take action. I mean, you've been in this what 30 years, now 35 years. That's incredible. It's been fun yeah.

59:52 - Anne-Marie (Guest) It's a great job, but I'll tell you, I learned from other people that I worked with and other women, and I talked to you about crying outside the stadium before my first ever time. Right before I went on the air, one of my colleagues who I used to produce for called me and she said how's it going? And I was like, oh, not good, not good at all. I'm pretty sure I'm about to throw up on live television. And she's like listen, no matter how bad it is, it's not going to be as bad as my first time on television. And I was like, oh God, that just made it worse. Like what happened to you? What happened to you your first time on television?

01:00:27 And what had happened to her was one of the quarterbacks in the match or in the football game that she was calling was a Heisman contender. There was some conversation around him. So when the play-by-play and analyst in the booth talked about him, she said to the producer I can add to the conversation. That's the way you do it as a sideline reporter. You say I can add and then they say, okay, for more, let's go down to the field. So when they came to her it was her first time on television and what they tell you as a sideline reporter is to be the eyes and the ears of the viewer. What would they not know? Okay, unless you're on the field. So she's adding by saying guys, I know that you've talked about this particular athlete as a possible Heisman contender, but the fans down here disagree. They're chanting Heisman, my ass, you suck, you suck Bob back to you. Right and I. I was outside the stadium about to go and I thought you know what you're right? Um, I'm not gonna swear on live television right, you had it worse.

01:01:30 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I'm like, you're right, I'm not gonna do that.

01:01:32 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I may be terrible, but I'm not gonna do that. She still had a full career after that, a very successful one, which is why I'm not going to do that. She still had a full career after that, a very successful one, which is why I have not used her name.

01:01:39 - Chase (Host) Who's going to forget that? Yeah?

01:01:41 - Anne-Marie (Guest) But the point being, she didn't let that stop her. She kept going. And so when somebody gives you that gift right and that's where we talk about selfish and fear she could have chosen A to never keep going or B not to tell me that story, but she shared it with me. B not to tell me that story, but she shared it with me. She gave me permission to use it in the book. She gave me permission to use it in interviews. I just don't reveal her name, although she didn't even say I couldn't use her name. I just don't want to do that to her. But that's a perfect example of letting fear be selfish. And instead she was generous with her fear and said I know you're afraid. Here's what happened to me. It's not going to happen to you, because most people don't swear on live television.

01:02:21 - Chase (Host) And I still survived and had a great career. I love these two concepts you're introducing here. We're talking about fear being selfish and fear being generous. Yes, I love how we're kind of just navigating a new mindset to fear. And when we think fear, we think a lot of things you know we've all been afraid at some point in our life and we probably will be again. And a lot of things you know we've all been afraid at some point in our life and we probably will be again. And that just gets boxed in. But like anything in life, and what I believe the whole concept of the show to help us move forward in these aspects is to just like get ourselves out of that, to look at it. For this 3000, 10,000 foot perspective, get objective perspective, get out, dance around it, look at it. There are so many other ways to navigate it. Fear can be selfish, but it can also be generous.

01:03:04 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Absolutely. How novel is that for a lot of us right now? Absolutely. I made a decision to show my kids my failures, my fears, the things I'm upset about. My oldest son is in my front row. He's 20, right, my family's all great, but this one is in my front row because he just gives me sound advice. He lets me bounce things off of him, and so he has more than once been great about my successes. He'd be like, yeah, you're killing it speaking. So I decided to show him all the rejections.

01:03:33 - Chase (Host) Oh, wow.

01:03:33 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Hey, buddy, I just sent out 15 prospecting calls. I didn't get a call back from any of those. He's like wow, that's rough. I'm like not really. I mean that's just information. This is what happens, because I didn't want them to see only successes and think she's just lucky or she's just good at this. And there was one time in particular where I had a job set but I was waiting for the contract and the contract didn't come. And finally I called the production company. I was like what's going on? And they said well, the head coach and GM of the team has decided he wants somebody else. And I mean I had already cleared my schedule for this and I was like wait a minute, what do you? What do you mean?

01:04:11 - Chase (Host) I haven't even. They just left you hanging.

01:04:12 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah, I was like I hadn't even met him and they were like, well, he's more comfortable with his buddy. And I was like, okay, you tell him I'm coming when today. Okay, right now, yes, I walked out of my office, I'm crying, I'm a crier, right, the kids see me and I'm like don't let anybody ever.

01:04:27 - Chase (Host) you know, the kids are like scared Like mommy's really upset.

01:04:30 - Anne-Marie (Guest) I'm like don't let anybody ever tell you. And they're like where are you going? I'm like to the airport. Went to the airport it was a short flight bought a ticket off the plane Uber to the office, sat down and the guy did not want to see me. Obviously, of course, right. And he said look, it's nothing personal. And I said, well, of course it's personal. I'm a person, I'm sitting right here, you know what's the issue. And he just trusted the other person. I understand that, somebody he had worked with before and I said well, do you think that's the right person for this audience though, which was mostly a female LGBTQ plus audience, like, is this older man going to be the one to relate there? And we had a great conversation where I decided to start challenging him on some of his decisions, because at this point, I didn't have the job Right, and this is the fear component that I talk about. They can't fire you if they haven't hired you.

01:05:24 - Chase (Host) Oh true, Very true. I lived by that. What do you have to lose at this point?

01:05:28 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Zero, zero. So I had the conversation with him and then at the end I decided to take on audacious risk because, again, I wasn't working for this guy anyway. And I said listen, thank you for meeting with me. I'm going to let you know I don't want to work for you. And he was like what? And you know he flew up here and I said because the very last thing I want is to show up to work every day in the gym. It was for a professional basketball team, show up and have you be like here's that woman I didn't want to hire anyway. And I said so. If the production company tells me they want me, if the ownership tells me it's only you. If you decide you want me, I'm in, otherwise, forget it, I'm out. When I went home, production company called and said I don't know what happened in there, but he said he wants you. He said she basketball. And she's got, excuse me, balls.

01:06:20 And gave you a raise. Basketballs, basketballs, basketballs and gave you a raise beforehand Because I had no fear of the outcome, because I'd already lost yeah. I already wasn't there. And sometimes those audacious moves he could have easily still said no, the victory is in the audacious move, it's not in the outcome. So many times we're looking at the outcome and it's actually in the action.

01:06:51 - Chase (Host) That's where the victory is is in taking the action. Love that story. Thank you for sharing. Kind of getting towards the end here, I have a question in mind that I feel like could be a unique spin on our conversation here. What do we do if we feel like the failure is not on us, and what I mean by that is my team let me down. The government is failing us.

01:07:13 We can put blame or just shift the weight of failure to others. How do we navigate that? How do we know yes, actually someone else failed you because of fear or even just a failure for whatever reason. So how do we navigate life situation or career when someone else failed us?

01:07:35 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Because we don't have control over what someone else does, right? So if they failed us, what's our next step? I feel like you can spend a lot of energy blaming them. I mean, it happens all the time in my business, your business, every you know. Hey, they, they didn't hire me, they went with somebody else who wasn't good.

01:07:57 - Chase (Host) Maybe you think, or whatever it is or how many of us are cursing the algorithm? The algorithm failed me. Oh yeah, my content is a failure because the algorithm is shifting and all this stuff.

01:08:06 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Yeah, Right, so that's again you're. You're X. You're exporting your emotions and your ability and your your power by saying it's others that are failing me, Because, in the end, you're in charge of your life and so if you're not being supported the way you want in other ways, well, it's your responsibility to adjust, and I know that's happened. I know there's lots of people who my family has failed me. Is their story right? My family has failed me. Is their story right? My family has failed me, and that stinks, but you still are in charge of the outcome of your life because you're the one living it, so you can't just sit there and be a victim of it. As much as it stinks. I always say it's not your fault what happened to you, but it's your responsibility to respond to it.

01:08:58 - Chase (Host) Look, everyone's struggles are their struggles, but you have to come to the realization, I believe I have to come to the choice that these failures, this suffering, might not be your fault, but it is your responsibility.

01:09:11 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Absolutely, absolutely. A lot of times it isn't our fault, whatever it is. But you can either sit and blame, which gets you nowhere, or you can say I'm going to take action to work with that. And again, anxiety, ptsd, huge, right, huge, and it's. It's not easy to say, okay, I'm going to take responsibility. What does that look like? But it is. You're able to say, okay, what are my resources, how can I create some other pathways, whether that's getting help in another way or looking into like for anxiety, they talk about doing something creative can take your mind out of that space. So all of a sudden, you, who's not a painter, is like okay, I'm going to start drawing when I feel anxious and not judge it, just to get my head out of that space. So, responsibility, maybe we should use the word privilege.

01:10:09 Ooh Right, it's not your fault but it's your privilege to be able to try something else, to responsibly try something else. That's your gift.

01:10:18 - Chase (Host) You have a choice. I love that. One question before I get to my final here, as someone that has been in her career and navigating a lot of different offshoots of that for three decades now, can you take us back to a time Is there one in mind that you would consider your biggest failure, and what is your perspective of it now compared to then?

01:10:41 - Anne-Marie (Guest) What is my perspective of it now? I'm trying to think of my biggest failure. I think I'll go back to trying to get that first job out of college and I was able to get an interview at ESPN for a six month temporary job, working six at night to three in the morning, six days a week, Mondays off. And I went in for the interview and they asked me to um analyze the Mariners bullpen, and this is before Randy Johnson was on the Mariners bullpen. I know you're not a sports guy.

01:11:11 - Chase (Host) I know Randy Johnson.

01:11:12 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Okay, I had no idea how to analyze the Mariners bullpen, and so I fumbled in the interview. I never really recovered. And so I fumbled in the interview. I never really recovered, and at the end he said thanks so much, but I'm sorry, you're not what we're looking for. So there's the failure. I had no job, I was going to end up going home and living with my parents and that isn't what I wanted after college. And the response to that from me, which I'm kind of amazed of now because I'm like at 21, like how did you have that guts? But it was more out of desperation, right? Because there's audacity, like taking the bold risk, and then there's like I need a damn job.

01:11:47 You know kind of thing I wrote back and I said thank you very much for the interview. However, I don't feel I did. I showcase what I can really add. You usually have candidates that can spit out stats and numbers. I have a different perspective, because I'd already worked in television at my local station and I wrote this like audacious note, saying like would you please consider? Because I think, basically saying like I didn't do a good job of explaining to you how I could add value. They called me back and he said okay, we'll give you a shot. And when I look back at that now, I think what if I hadn't written that letter? What would my life be like if I hadn't said, no, let me try again with you? All 35 year career that I've absolutely loved would not have happened.

01:12:36 - Chase (Host) Well, I could not think of a better way to get into my last question just by that last story. And your, your work thus far in your perspective on understanding fear, failure, starting, not starting, is why I have you on the show, because you clearly embody this philosophy of living a life ever forward yes those two words. And Marie. What does thatMarie? What does that mean to you? What do they mean to you?

01:12:59 - Anne-Marie (Guest) How do?

01:12:59 - Chase (Host) you live a life ever forward.

01:13:01 - Anne-Marie (Guest) That's why I wanted to be on your show, because it is exactly kind of a motto I live by. And that is no matter what happens. Outside forces at us our own actions create none of it is a stopping point. When we stop, when we say the same, we're not growing. So ever forward to me means taking whatever actions are happening and seeing how we can advance them toward living a life that is closer to our values, visions, who we want to be. Not just our job, but our entire life. That's ever forward to me.

01:13:40 - Chase (Host) Never a right or wrong answer. Thank you for your interpretation. Where can my audience go to connect with you, get the book? Uh, all of this information will be in the podcast show notes and video description box on YouTube. But, uh, where are you hanging out the most? Where can they connect with you?

01:13:52 - Anne-Marie (Guest) Well, the easiest place is to find me on my website, where you can find links to everything. It's annemarieandersoncom. I also love getting notes on social media and questions and stuff. I'm a keynote speaker, so you can also reach me there. Find me on Instagram at annemarieandersonTV or cultivating underscore audacity.

01:14:10 - Chase (Host) All right, all right, all right. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com