EFR 863: Is DEI Really Over? The TRUTH About the Current US Job Market, How to Write an Incredible Resume and How to Quit Your Job and Not Burn a Bridge with Colleen Pelly

00:18 - Colleen (Guest) The following is an Operation Podcast production. Everything's going to stay the same, and so I do feel like there's those I don't really want to call them bad boys in business who are trying to still keep it in, but yeah, it's really sad.

00:29 I think there's a way to look at this, and it through a different lens. I think some people feel like, oh, if I put the DEI lens on, that means I just have to hire more women, I think. Or you know, we have to hire people from different countries. But it's like let's look at it in a different, let's like paint a broader picture, um, and I think it's like diversity could be just eliminating bias from your recruitment process and eliminating bias in the way we look at people.

00:52 - Chase (Host) Like I think it can still be diversity of thought and like hiring people from different backgrounds and maybe it was hurting your bottom line, maybe you weren't finding the qualified people that you needed right to deliver your products and services.

01:02 - Colleen (Guest) So I will say to that ultimately, at the end of the day, you need to hire the best person for the job. Hi, I'm Colleen Pelley. I'm the CEO and founder of the Lynchpin Co, where we focus on recruitment with purpose, and this is Ever Forward Radio.

01:19 - Chase (Host) Hey and welcome back to Ever Forward Radio. I am Chase Chewning, your host Army veteran wellness entrepreneur, and today I'm joined by Colleen Pelly Colleen is an instinctively positive person who has always been drawn to the people side of business. This is a passion that started with helping others find their dream job. That has grown into a desire to build a company that provides an incredible experience for clients, teammates and business partners alike. She is the founder and CEO of the Lynchpin Co, and Colleen and her amazing team at Lynchpin. Their goal is to bring crucial people to your company, train and develop those already working with you. And see, their goal is really wrapped up in the name, because a Lynchpin is a person or thing that is vital to an organization and is also the fastener that keeps a wheel on its axle. It's the tool that holds the various elements of a complicated structure together. And their goal at Little Linchpin Co is to bring these crucial people to your company and train and develop those already working for you. See, with the right people in place and the right tools available to develop them, you will be equipped to succeed way beyond your wildest dreams.

02:32 I'm so grateful to have sat down with Colleen. Lynchpin is actually today's sponsor. So if you want to check them out, if you were interested in sourcing, full cycle recruitment, executive search, training, even recruitment, monthly subscriptions and consulting, they have you covered. They even specialize in diversity, equity and inclusion, and DEI is a key word, key term that we're actually diving into right out of the gate here in the episode we're going to be talking about. Is DEI really all but gone? President Trump seems to make it his primary motive, politics aside here, you can't deny the facts that he has it out for DEI. Is it all but gone in the workplace in America? Also, if you are in the job market or on the side of hiring, this episode is going to be a masterclass in what to do and what not to do to land the job of your dreams and to recruit the ideal candidate of your dreams.

03:28 She's going to help us all think like a recruiter, so that thinking like a recruiter can give us that edge in the marketplace. The worst things to put on your resume, and even diving into things like what to do, how to process the fields, how to navigate the professional landscape when going through a layoff. All this and more is waiting for you in today's episode of Ever Forward Radio. I'm going to have Colleen's information and the Lynch Penco's information all linked for you down in the show notes. But definitely check them out. If what she does and her values behind what she does rings true for you and your organization, check them out at the lynchpencocom. Welcome everybody. Welcome to the first ever. This is my first dad cast, my first time back in the studio. Being a new dad, I hope the editing has done a great job, making me look less tired and I'll just be keep sipping on my coffee. But I've got a new mom, a mom and a new mom here with me, so we can kind of like commiserate together.

04:23 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, congratulations, I'm so excited for you. Thank you, yes, are you saying it publicly yet? That's fine, we're expecting number three.

04:30 - Chase (Host) Man number three.

04:31 - Colleen (Guest) Here we go.

04:32 - Chase (Host) Three kids running your own business and, just you know, take it on the world all at the same time Trying Doing my best.

04:38 So, colleen, here we are, 2025, you know Q1. I Q1. I'll use all my business terms I can remember and we just had a major change of leadership new president in the United States and, politics aside, there was a policy that was kind of like undone or something, I think big that was undone in the professional world. So DEI is seemingly going away, commander in Chief does not seem to think that it is as important as his predecessor or has a place really for large corporations or business as a whole in America, and we're kind of seeing a lot of businesses follow suit pretty quickly in absolving those departments.

05:17 I know what's your stance on that. How do you feel about that?

05:19 - Colleen (Guest) My first reaction is sad.

05:23 I think there's a way to look at this through a different lens.

05:27 I think some people feel like, oh, if I put the DEI lens on, that means I just have to hire more women, like I think, or you know, we have to hire people from different countries. But it's like let's look at it in a different, let's like paint a broader picture, and I think it's like diversity could be just eliminating bias from your recruitment process and eliminating bias in the way we look at people. Like I think it can still be diversity of thought, and like hiring people from different backgrounds and I'm sure we'll get into this but like skills-based recruiting versus like traditional hiring methods, and I think so my initial reaction is like you're missing out. It's really sad, and diversity, equity and inclusion is so important. If we hire the same people with the same background and the same skill set into every role, nothing's going to be innovated, everything's going to stay the same. And so I do feel like there's those I don't really want to call them bad boys in business who are trying to still keep it in.

06:18 But yeah, it's really sad to see. I don't know how you feel about it, but it bums me out.

06:23 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I mean for any. I don't want to say this. I think for any department of any form of business to just go away, it feels like you're just taking away.

06:36 - Colleen (Guest) I don't know.

06:38 - Chase (Host) Just for it to be like gone, like that, just because someone else feels so strongly about it.

06:48 - Colleen (Guest) It's kind of like I think it shows a lot of businesses true colors of. It really didn't mean anything for you to begin with. You were doing it because you felt like you had to. Yeah.

06:50 - Chase (Host) You're trying to check a box.

06:51 - Colleen (Guest) You were trying to be a part of the diversity inclusion club.

06:54 - Chase (Host) So then you know I, but then I also have to put it in. Being a business owner, I have to put on my business lines and go. If it was for lack of a better term just an add-on to your business to be more appealing to maybe consumers, employers, maybe it was hurting your bottom line, maybe you weren't finding the qualified people that you needed to deliver your products and services.

07:15 - Colleen (Guest) So I will say to that there is one thing like ultimately, at the end of the day, you need to hire the best person for the job. So I think there is a challenging piece where it's like fundamentally and I've come up against this with clients that like, we need to hire the best person for what you need for your company and for the technical requirements for the role, but that doesn't mean we take away thinking about who we're hiring, like I still think you need to like so I think you can. Yes, fundamentally you need to hire who's the best person for the job, but on the other side of it, are we putting thought processes into making sure we're not hiring everyone who's the exact same? But I still think you can have a diversity lens without feeling like you're just doing it to like tick a box.

07:51 - Chase (Host) Totally agree. So, but it is hard and I agree with you.

07:53 - Colleen (Guest) I like the way you put that, like showing true colors, and it's true. It feels like if it's just eliminated and you're not asking questions and you're not being curious about why this is happening, then you didn't really care in the first place. Those who went all in went all in and they hired like entire DEI departments and functions, and so I think I guess my overarching message would be like don't eliminate it from your thought process, but like still have a diverse lens on the way you're recruiting. I don't know, it bums me out that people just like give up on these initiatives.

08:29 - Chase (Host) My sister-in-law is actually a C-suite chief diversity officer for a global law firm and, yeah, I haven't spoken with her directly about how has this impacted your world, but I think someone at that level, when that's your exact job title, and especially at a C-suite level, a lot of people might be really worried about job security.

08:42 - Colleen (Guest) What happens now? Yeah, yeah, because, yeah, you're right On the different levels of it. You can kind of transition that skill set into something and there's always a transferable skill set. But if that's her passion and what she loves, then that's sad, because you want to be able to be authentic in your work and feel good about it. But again, there are still companies who are not going to let it go not going to let it go.

09:05 - Chase (Host) So there's still space, yeah. So, as someone who has worked in the corporate world and now running your own business, I'm sure you've got, you've gotten and given a lot of advice. What is one piece of work advice that you have ever been given that has, like, stuck with you to this day?

09:15 - Colleen (Guest) Oh yeah, there's so many, which I'm actually very grateful for. So when you ask that, my brain kind of like a few things come to play, which is so good. But I think two that come to mind immediately. One is you give permission, or no one can make you feel any certain way without your permission. So I'm allowing myself to feel upset about something, or I'm like I'm letting them make me feel that way, so like that's the one, I've said it before, but that one always comes to my brain.

09:39 And then the second piece would be when you're thinking about a tangible goal or a big goal or something that's like a huge accomplishment, remembering that the path isn't always linear and that it's about kind of just consistently moving forward, because I think especially you know this, but when you're starting a business, it feels like there's consistent setbacks, and so it feels like you're like.

10:01 I did it, I'm gone. I did it, I'm gone, and it's like, no, this actually doesn't look linear, yeah. And then the last one is just giving yourself grace. I had a mentor who said that to me a lot. It was like be kind to yourself, because I find it really easy to fall into a space of like, oh, that didn't work, I did this poorly, this is wrong.

10:28 - Chase (Host) And so it's shifting. Shifting that mentality from like these setbacks can actually be like incredible feedback for how you can like be resilient, essentially For sure. I mean, there's definitely a place for resilience, and if we just gave ourself grace all the time, maybe we kind of lean too heavily into grace. I don't know if resilience would ever fully get developed when you're especially an entrepreneur. You know you got to kind of have those hard moments, you know to kind of really find your metal.

10:44 - Colleen (Guest) This isn't working, Colleen. You need to figure it out.

10:47 - Chase (Host) So to kind of expand on that. How do you kind of navigate or do you have a litmus test for okay, now is the time for giving myself grace or no, now is the time I really need to develop resilience.

10:59 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, that's a great question and I think the short answer is no, I haven't figured it out. But what I'm trying to do is I think, if you can come into a space to like, say, a tough client call, but if I came into that call and I prepared myself, I showed up the way I wanted to show up, I set boundaries, we performed the way we wanted to perform, and it still doesn't go well, that's a great example where I'll be like. I'm actually in the situation where I think I did everything I could do.

11:26 So I think the grace piece comes when I'm like I know I went into this properly, I tried my best, I set boundaries, I was clear, we did what we needed to do, we did what we said we were going to do like in personal integrity, that's for sure grace. When that doesn't work, the resilience part is if you can hold yourself accountable to the error. So I think personal accountability is such a huge thing, and so I'm not. We all make mistakes. I've made tons. I don't know, maybe I didn't leave enough time and I didn't make a deck as clear as I could have, and then the client didn't pick us because they were like I don't understand what you're trying to do. So there's things like that where I'm like okay, Colleen, what, where can I take? Let's take a step back and be like what can I take accountable ability for here and like what could I have done differently? And that's when it's like, okay, let's have a tough conversation with ourself. So a lot of for me, a lot of the like resilience versus grace is like preparedness.

12:15 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

12:16 - Colleen (Guest) So, like, what have I, what have I gone into this with? And yeah, you know, when you're juggling 8,000 things, sometimes you're not, and so it's like priority setting. You know, for me it always comes back to priority setting and sometimes I miss that and then I have I've missed out on big opportunities because of it.

12:30 - Chase (Host) What I'm kind of hearing in there is a perfect segue into another question I had about. You know, sometimes really should get granular about effort or capability.

12:39 - Colleen (Guest) Right, okay, yeah.

12:41 - Chase (Host) My question around that is do you think people fail more in business because of lack of brains or lack of effort, and how do we know the difference? When is the time to focus on developing skill sets or when do we just need to work on outworking everyone else?

12:55 - Colleen (Guest) Right, because they both have their place too, right? Yeah, I think you shouldn't be over-promising and under-delivering, like it's going to need to be the opposite, right? So in a space where you don't commit to something you know you can't do, it would. I mean, that's just the way I operate. So I think, like there's a space there from a skill set perspective, make sure you at least have some semblance of ability to do the thing they need to do.

13:21 Because there is still a fake it till you make it peace where you're like, where it's like, yeah, I got that, but like make sure you have some idea. Um, otherwise you will fail and then you're gonna hurt your brand in the long run, those kind of pieces. But, um, the other side of it would be out hustling everyone to a certain extent. If you think of it as a numbers game, if I reach out to more people than anyone else about do you need help with hiring, someone's gonna get back to me. Yes, there is a reality to that. That is true, you can out hustle. But if I'm intentional and I put the energy into curating my skill set and putting the effort into like who I want to be working with and I'm mindful about who I'm reaching out to, I'm probably going to get maybe a lower response rate, but it'll be from the right people who I want to be working with.

13:56 So I think there's like there is truth to it, like it is a numbers game to a certain extent, but if I'm more mindful about it, those numbers are going to maybe be smaller, but they're going to be aligned with what I want for my company and my brand.

14:12 - Chase (Host) I do agree in a lot of business and a lot of aspects of life. It is just a numbers game. You know, you got to get the reps in. You got to just shoot your shot until one of them lands.

14:16 - Colleen (Guest) Something's going to stick, yeah.

14:25 - Chase (Host) That's what we hope for. But when do we draw the line? When do we go? Okay, you know what? I'm just spinning my wheels, I'm just shooting, shot after shot after shot. You know, am I even aiming? Am I in the right court? Am I in the?

14:31 - Colleen (Guest) right arena.

14:32 - Chase (Host) You know how do we kind of really kind of take a better understanding, take a step back of like, is it me or am I just, you know off?

14:40 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, great question. I think, like, let's bring this all the way back to like metrics and data. So tracking everything you're doing is, for me, that's just the way my brain works. So tracking every shot, what the response rate is based on this messaging, and then I can try. Sometimes it's just changing a sentence in your outreach, but and then I'll try this and I track that and you're seeing what's working and what's not. So my advice there would always just be like you need to like be able to bring things back to trackable data, cause if not, what are you working with? So if I have metrics that show that this worked and this didn't, then it's easy for me to know to go down that path, cause otherwise, to your point, you're kind of just going to keep going and obviously it's not working.

15:26 - Chase (Host) So what's not working?

15:30 - Colleen (Guest) And it could be the people you're reaching out for me for recruiting. It could be like the people I'm reaching out to, it could be my messaging, it could be my angle and then, on the other side of it, ask for feedback.

15:36 - Chase (Host) So how do we ask for feedback? Yeah, great question so what's the best way to ask for feedback? That's going to actually help us change the way we're shooting our shots.

15:45 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah. So for me, like, if I'm, a lot of the time we are, obviously companies hire us to help them hire for their teams, right, and so I'm reaching out to candidates a lot. So these people who are job seekers and potential job seekers, and often a lot of the time, especially in like really saturated markets, you either don't get a response so, like software engineers instance, like they're reached out to all of the time but often I'll get responses that are like you know what? I'm not looking right now, but thanks so much, um, and I will take that opportunity to be like I really appreciate you getting back to me. I know you reached out to all the time. Would you mind giving me some insight into why you reply?

16:19 I see yeah, and then often for us, like um, giving away of our superpowers. But it's just transparency. So a lot of recruiters will reach out and not give you any information, but it's like I'm going to tell you the company, the pay, the location, everything, and then it's your decision to let me know if you want to chat but yeah, I'm not embarrassed or ashamed to, I guess ask for feedback and then, yeah, on the client side too, consistently checking in what's working.

16:48 - Chase (Host) What do checking in? What's working? What do you like about the way we're working together? What's not working? What can we change? Um, and not having an ego around if I need to change something. Yeah, you know, it makes me think so. Part of my world in podcasting is, you know, fielding pitches. Yes, okay, yeah so it's kind of like there's a recruiter out there for podcast guests as well, yeah, and um there. I have certain systems in place with like email or a website or application forms.

17:06 I have things in place to kind of be that initial filter, an initial way to feel that let people know hey, yes, I received it. Here's my process for reviewing them, here's the timeline, and sometimes that will just do the work for me. Other times you know, eight years now doing this I can take a glance at a pitch for a guest and more often than not I can go immediately.

17:29 - Colleen (Guest) Yes, Immediately no yeah or.

17:33 - Chase (Host) I'm going to wait on it, and usually wait on it has kind of even two variances. I'm going to wait on it because I think there's something here, but I want them to kind of show me a little bit more effort. So I will play a waiting game with them. I'm giving away my secrets now.

17:47 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, yeah, there you go.

17:48 - Chase (Host) Like, okay, how bad do they really want it, right? Or I think this is a good custom, unique pitch, and it tells me that they know about me and the show and they have a topic in mind that we can, you know, kind of parse out Right, but I feel like there's something more. I want them to give me more because ultimately, I don't want anyone to be able to listen to the show and go get the same guest conversation on another show and then on top of that, I'll go okay, I'm going to get to this later, but just I can't right now. And so where I'm going with this is, you know, I think having systems in place for outreach and for timeline and communication is amazing, but the ones that I reached back out to, they tell me the same thing. They're like oh, even if it's a no, they're like oh, thank you so much for getting back to me Any particular reason why?

18:35 So how can we take the next step with feedback like that? Because sometimes you know like, hey, you know what, you should be glad that I just responded. You know like I don't want the job right now, you know, but thank you, you know how do we get that person to kind of take the next step to give us feedback as to why it's like a yes or no right now.

18:54 - Colleen (Guest) It's more so a no right now.

18:55 - Chase (Host) Yeah, often.

18:57 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, I think like immediately when I'm thinking about, like if I'm bringing it just into my world because that's where my brain goes, but like if you're thinking about candidates who are said no to a lot. Obviously you didn't get the job and there are some companies who have mandates around what feedback you're allowed to give.

19:14 So like. I've worked internally at a lot of companies where it's like we can't actually tell them X, X and X, and I am a big believer in it shouldn't just be a no, there should always be feedback Like and it shouldn't just be a no. There should always be feedback Like I think, how are you going to grow If I decline you for the job and you're trying to get a job somewhere else, especially people who are new in their career? You're not learning anything.

19:32 So there are certain policies in place with certain Not everywhere I've worked, but there's some companies who have like there's policies around the feedback we're allowed to give.

19:37 - Chase (Host) So you could be applying for a job and be getting you know surface level feedback Like a generic template. So you're really never going to know why you didn't get the job.

19:46 - Colleen (Guest) Right, and it's typically at the interview process. So it's not just like so either, like from an applicant tracking system, like if someone applies to a job and like 800 people apply, right, you can kind of go through. Some companies don't even do this. This is how low the bar is. But you can go through and just like, click these 10 and you'll get an email that just says hey, we've looked at your resume. Unfortunately, you're not a fit for this role. Right now. Here's our careers page. Like a generic decline.

20:08 - Chase (Host) Thanks, right, and you're like cool yeah.

20:11 - Colleen (Guest) But what's sad is companies don't even do it, like the bar is so low that people just get ghosted, which is so sad. But if they've hit the interview process and you've actually talked, can I share and what can I not? And, um, yeah, some companies are like just don't why is that?

20:25 because of a like legal reasons I have to assume it's from legal, but I think, um, there's nothing really in there for me. In my opinion, there's nothing in there that would ever be. It's not like it makes the brand look bad, or the company.

20:37 It's more like you know, like Colleen had the technical coding experience that we needed for the role, and this person didn't Like sometimes. So it's interesting though, when you're like as a recruiter and like. What I've loved about recruitment is transparency and authenticity in the way we operate, and if you're put in a space where you can't do that, it's kind of not fair. So I would always give feedback anyway. I would just keep it super generic, just to feel like at least it was something.

21:00 Just something I've noticed, so like I think people those who are maybe less experienced, but people forget that, like communication is something that's valued throughout the whole process. So I could share something like even if you've read my email and I know that you're set for the interview like just accept the invite and communicate back that you've got it and you're excited, and then I know that we're on the same page. Like that's easy feedback for someone who's junior, but, um, in general, like, like internal employees, all of it. Like if you're not giving people feedback consistently, like they're never going to evolve as a in their career or change and you're going to get the same output from them too. So I don't know, feedback is so important.

21:36 - Chase (Host) It is, it really really is, you know, and kind of. While we're on this aspect of hiring, I want to jump into kind of more of your world of recruiting. I want to jump into kind of more of your world of recruiting. I want us to really think like a recruiter here. So let's say, you know we're looking for a new job, or you know our first job or just any job. A lot of us are probably going to be fielded through a recruiter if we're applying to corporate America.

21:56 - Colleen (Guest) Whether it's internal or, like me, externally, exactly. That's a good point, that's a really good point.

22:00 - Chase (Host) So I want you to answer this question. While like thinking like a recruiter, I want us to think about. You know, it's not just me that wants a job. I also have to get through this middle person basically. So how can thinking like a recruiter potentially give us an edge in the marketplace?

22:19 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, that's a great question. I think one thing I'll say really quickly. First is just remember that the recruiter wants it to go well, just like I have a job.

22:24 - Chase (Host) I need to fill. It's their job to give jobs. My job is to fill it Exactly I hope you're the best candidate I've ever talked to and you have everything I need.

22:31 - Colleen (Guest) So if someone's more junior, usually, but if you're nervous about it, just remember that. I'm hoping it goes really well because I want to fill this, so take away the pain.

22:38 - Chase (Host) That's an important thing to remember, because it's Think about what my job is.

22:47 - Colleen (Guest) Okay. So I'm given essentially bullet points, but I'm given a list of things I need to find. I'm given sort of some information about the company culture and I need to find someone who fits those two things. And so, if you're evaluating the job spec, it's like here's the six things this company is saying that are important. Here's the one designation I need to have.

23:06 This company culture focuses on wellness and leadership and development. Can I find a way to articulate responses that touch on these three things? And I always say this, and I hate it because I'm not trying to like dumb down my industry, but we're pretty lazy Like really, it's like I need to find a way to say can you do this? Is it going to work? Do you agree with the culture? Do you have the emotional intelligence to be able to do this job? And if I can make that connection quickly, so like thinking like a recruiter to me would be like just think about what I'm looking for. You know, obviously I don't want you to like read the job description to me. Of course, I can think outside the box.

23:42 - Chase (Host) Proficient in Excel?

23:43 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, exactly Right. But I think like there's a way for you, you're hitting those points and so usually on a job, like some job postings are written differently, but there's usually like a must have nice to have section like requirements for the role.

23:56 - Chase (Host) I've seen those yeah.

23:57 - Colleen (Guest) And so look at what's actually required for the role and make sure your responses incorporate those things. So if it's like talk to me at a project you led, it's like okay, but can I talk about a project I led? That includes those two requirements for the role.

24:14 - Chase (Host) Oh good, catch Um cause, as the recruiter, if I'm thinking like I'm listening, and then I'm like, yes, okay, they said that, check. So it's really just a matter about a matter of how well can we um communicate on paper, email and verbally uh, using keywords Like. I feel like we're kind of, especially in the recruiting world, like we're given the answers to the test a little bit here, it's literally right in front of you, if we can match up with it, then you know that's thinking like a recruiter.

24:31 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, and then the hard part is the hard part to like if you want to call it like a screen, like that first round. The hard part is the emotional intelligence part. So like when we talk about, it's easy for me to say, do you have this designation or have you, have you managed a project that's over a million dollars? It's easy for me to like check those things, but I think companies are forgetting about the importance of eq. And like, how do we talk about your ability to like read a room?

24:57 and handle a really challenging or give feedback to your teammates, and so I think it's like remembering that you want to showcase that you're not only able to do the role technically but, you're able to take on sort of like the behavioral aspects of what this role looks like. Um like if you're a leader, like the feedback piece, but if you're a leader being able to speak to like here's how I've managed a team.

25:16 Here's what succession planning looks like for me. Not just I can do these six things that are technically required yeah, what does that really look like?

25:23 - Chase (Host) you know, maybe literally verbatim on a resume or like. In response to those um bullet points, let's say we get to this preliminary interview with a recruiter.

25:31 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, I think there's a way to so. If you're thinking about the technical side, like the sort of core requirements for a role, that's when you're using your data and your metrics, Like I increased or I reduced turnover by 30% by doing this, and then on the behavioral side, it's sort of like when you're answering a question, there's something called the star method you can think about, and it's so. So. S is like the situation, so like I'm like I'm going to sort of create a situation where I'm going to ask you a behavioral question Like what would you do in X situation? Or give me an example of a time that you were in X situation, so like you're going to talk about like here's the story, here's where I was.

26:08 T is task, so here's what I was required to do or what they needed from me. A is action, so like what did I do to accomplish this? And then R is result. But in that space it allows for you to like have the data that's needed to showcase your technical skill, but also have the ability to say here's how I managed the situation or here's an error I made and I held myself accountable. So you can hear about integrity.

26:30 So you have this chance to not just say I can do the job, but just say like I'm also emotionally prepared to do it as well.

26:35 - Chase (Host) It's kind of like the, the humanization aspect to it.

26:39 - Colleen (Guest) That's my whole goal. Yeah, like.

26:41 - Chase (Host) I can.

26:41 - Colleen (Guest) here's how I did the task I got the job done quite literally what you know the job is looking for but you know then here's like and from a result perspective, like here's what worked, here's what didn't work, here's what we did next time, that kind of thing too. And so I think, yeah, like talking about the human side of business, the human side of recruiting, that's like literally why I started everything.

27:01 - Chase (Host) So it's important, I'm glad to hear that that is like the secret sauce. I've shared this before on the show, but it takes me back to you know, I was a clinical health coach for years.

27:17 And I would sit in my office when we had personal training equipment and body fat scanners and I worked with doctors and all this stuff and I had to remember, you know it can be very intimidating. You know I'm this person that you know you would come see, usually after seeing their doctor, and they're like you know, hey, we need to work on these labs, or hey, like, if you don't change your lifestyle you're going to go on this medication, and so I, you know, I had answers, you know that's what I was trained in, I had degrees and certifications and all these things and you know, and I could just like bark orders, basically.

27:50 But when you say people want answers or no no, people want it to be heard right and so the quicker that I realized that like chase, yeah, the nutrition plan can work, the workout plan can work if you do this. If you do this, it'll exactly yeah but what's going to keep them adherent, what's going to keep them actually finding joy and be able to repeat success?

28:08 - Colleen (Guest) or or yeah, being invested in and wanting to do it Exactly yeah.

28:11 - Chase (Host) Exactly so with your health and with your career, I think, being in a position where you can remember that there's a human across the table from you is always going to take you further. Yeah, it's always going to take you further.

28:22 - Colleen (Guest) A hundred percent and actually on all sides, but like candidate side, client side, whatever, like if you can find a human connection to that relationship is much more authentic and from a business building perspective like they're going to refer to me, to people, or they're going to continue to come back and work with me, because I've created that time to like remember that we're all human and we're in it together for now, until the ai robots take over and you're not actually human.

28:43 - Chase (Host) Yeah, there's definitely a future of work around ai it's real. I think we can I don't know make it friend I saw something today that was like I use it a lot All the time, but I saw something today that was like I'm going to be okay, because I always say please and thank you to my.

28:55 - Colleen (Guest) AI, I'm sure I got that.

28:57 - Chase (Host) Honestly, that goes a long way, it's true.

29:00 - Colleen (Guest) Kindness and like leading with kindness and being mindful.

29:03 - Chase (Host) And nobody likes feeling like they're being taken for granted. Ever no.

29:07 - Colleen (Guest) No, and that's actually if you could.

29:09 - Chase (Host) Superior subordinate.

29:10 - Colleen (Guest) Well, you can bring that all the way back to communication. Yeah, like the way we talk to each other or you know for you, when you're like figuring out who you want to work with or who you want to partner with, you can tell what it's going to feel like. Oh yeah, and as you grow your business, you can also start to get particular about who you let in that bubble.

29:24 - Chase (Host) Well, now, going into year, seven years, seven living in LA, everything I do is based off catching a vibe first, yeah, if we're hanging out or if we're doing you know a business venture together, it's like, okay, you could check every box but I'm like, I'm just like, yeah, I get that.

29:39 - Colleen (Guest) No, hey, but it's working. I think there's like there's some there's value in gut instinct and I use it all the time and that's what it is in business. It's like your body kind of tells you a little bit like oh something, something didn't feel right about that.

29:50 - Chase (Host) How many times in business have you gone against your gut, gone against your intuition, and it comes back to buy you? Too many to count.

29:59 - Colleen (Guest) And what's great about it is, if you can take that as a learning, you can like move forward with it, but definitely sometimes it feels well, why would I miss this opportunity?

30:08 - Chase (Host) You're like I need the money, so like let's do this.

30:10 - Colleen (Guest) And then you get in and you're like, oh wow, this is a terrible decision and I shouldn't be here. So you're right, I feel like that sounds like you're simplifying so many things, but it's true that instinct really is powerful.

30:19 - Chase (Host) It will save you a lot of time and frustration, for sure no-transcript.

30:33 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, people have photo. It's like a headshot on your.

30:34 - Chase (Host) I don't understand it, Cause like that's got to immediately DQ them from the job. Isn't that like a bias?

30:39 - Colleen (Guest) Well, it makes me feel like if you're declined, you're going to be able to come back and be like Because I'm white, I'm brown.

30:46 - Chase (Host) I'm a woman, I'm a guy.

30:49 - Colleen (Guest) So that's a part for me Also. I just don't understand it.

30:51 - Chase (Host) I've never understood the why. I've never seen that before.

30:53 - Colleen (Guest) Oh it happens all the time. It's strange to me.

30:55 - Chase (Host) Who does that A lot of people.

30:58 - Colleen (Guest) Typically it's younger, like newer grads.

31:02 - Chase (Host) Oh, okay.

31:06 - Colleen (Guest) It's like they think maybe someone, I don't Just stop.

31:08 - Chase (Host) Anyway, that's probably a trend. Yeah, like that's the world we live in. Yeah, it's probably a TikTok trend.

31:14 - Colleen (Guest) Okay, I think I don't see this a lot, but like, okay, taking it back super tactically, edit your resume for spelling mistakes and spacing and things like that. So one thing I will say is people get really, really worried about how their resume looks and no one really cares. So, like, remember that no one cares about what a resume looks like. No, what's important is the information that's on it and that it's accessible and easy for me to read. But I'm not worried. I'm not looking at Chase's because he has a cool blue line on it, more than John's because he has no cool blue line.

31:43 It's just for me. I want to be able to look at it and clearly be able to separate where your work experience is, what you've done, and don't make it crazy long. And so I think there's the negatives. For me would be like you don't, I don't need detail about everything you've ever done at your job. I think it's like there is a reality that you need to curate it for each job you're applying to because you want to make sure it reads. Like I said, you want to make sure. I can make that connection super easily. But the problem is when people and in the interview process and on the resume when they like, bash other things.

32:14 - Chase (Host) Like what. What do you mean?

32:15 - Colleen (Guest) Like your old manager or your old brand or your old company. So this is more interview than it is resume. But people will sort of like be like, well, this isn't working because I hate my manager and I need a new job. And it's like, well, I'm not going to hire you. That's an immediate flag and so and that might be true I'm not saying it's like if you feel that way, please get out.

32:31 I think people should always leave if they don't feel aligned with the leadership, because it's going to suck your soul away. But there's a way for you to you know. Put on your resume Like what am I like? I'm looking for a new opportunity with a place, like a company that aligns with my values and a place that will see potential and growth for me, not I hate my manager, I'm never going to get promoted right.

32:50 - Chase (Host) So there's like a different way to put it. Well said yeah, yeah.

32:53 - Colleen (Guest) I think one thing about resumes is I feel like people overthink them. It's not that complicated, it's like actually, this like brings my brain to like, when we think about traditional hiring methods, I almost not that resumes are outdated. We need them. We need LinkedIn profiles. I need resumes and LinkedIn profiles to make sure I like I can find people. But I do think companies are so focused on job titling and years of experience and things and we're like really forgetting about the like the skill based.

33:20 So just because your resume says I don't know, it has the right title, it has the right whatever, it doesn't mean that you're the perfect person for the job. There might be someone who has an incredible transferable skill set who actually might be better. So how do we showcase that on our resume? Because sometimes people are trying to change industry or like jump in, like leap into a new space that feels easy or sorry, feels hard to get to, but it's like if you can showcase what's transferable and we can find clients who want to celebrate that it will be an easy move.

33:49 - Chase (Host) Okay, I haven't done a resume in a while, but I do remember when creating mine I got feedback from I think it was like a course in grad school or something that you know. Oh, it's better for this type of job to include this type of information or this length of work history for this one, maybe you know, take this chunk out. How do we know when creating our resume to, you know, ideally tailor towards the job that we want? What do we include and what do we take out?

34:13 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, great question, and it's true. It's annoying because you feel like you should just be able to write one and apply to everything.

34:19 - Chase (Host) You would think yeah.

34:20 - Colleen (Guest) It's not that simple. So I think there's data. Again, we talk about data metrics, but being able to showcase what you've done successfully without making it lengthy. So it's a really scary statistic, but it's like I think it's six seconds a recruiter looks at your resume before they make a decision.

34:38 - Chase (Host) Six seconds. So I'm looking at this document for six seconds and I'm going yes or no to giving you the job.

34:42 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, wow. So if you, even if it's great information, if you have like paragraph mode. So I think like the only time I would say like paragraph descriptions are useful is like at the very top. If it's like you know, chase is a motivated leader who has an expertise in this technical skill set. Like that can be a little bit, but not like like a little thing that can be helpful. It gives me insight into who you are. But like in the actual job description piece or, sorry, the actual work experience piece, I'd rather see three bullets that have like data and metrics about like here's what I did, here's what I'm great at, um, as opposed to like lengthy like, and you don't need 15 bullets.

35:19 - Chase (Host) Okay.

35:20 - Colleen (Guest) So I think it's like figuring out again. Go back to the job description. What are they looking for? What, what, what story are they asking you to tell? And then you come back and you just tell it. Okay, I know I'm making it sound so simple and I feel like people are going.

35:32 - Chase (Host) this is hard. No, I think it's a good reminder. I mean, at the end of the day, like a resume is a resume is a resume is a resume. Of course we should be tailoring it a little bit, but like, fundamentally, this is what recruiters and jobs are looking for.

35:43 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah. So I think to your point. The answers are in the job description. This is what they want. How do you make sure your story says that and how can I look at that quickly? And when I'm talking about scanning quickly so there's a few filters I have like thinking like a recruiter but like direct competitors, like if companies want certain companies. So sometimes when we're hiring they'll be like I want you to hit XX and X and so I'll scan quickly for companies to make sure it's relevant or at least transferable. And then you do look at job titles, but like the recruiter lens is more like making sure I understand like what's transferable and what's not. Like I said, like just because someone isn't called a technical project manager doesn't mean, that's not the job they're doing.

36:20 And then being able to like. I think, when you're talking about storytelling, what I mean by that is I'm going to take away, if you've hired me to help hire for your team, I'm going to take away candidates and come to you with a story about each candidate Like here's Chase, here's what he's done, here's what's great about him, here's his comp expectation, all those things. So how can I articulate why you are the best person for the job? So you're kind of helping the recruiter form their story about you to give back to the client. Okay, really Okay. Okay, making my job easier, I guess.

36:48 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it makes total sense. Some people might take, we'll say, creative liberties on their resume and I'm sure some people might flat out lie.

36:57 - Colleen (Guest) Right, like about their experience, about their experience or qualifications?

37:00 - Chase (Host) Yes, when do you think is there ever a place to take creative liberties on a resume that you can back up, that you can justify, let's say, in the interview, or actually boots on the ground when you get the job? And is there ever a place for just putting something that's incorrect on a resume because you know you can deliver once you get the job?

37:22 - Colleen (Guest) Right.

37:23 It's an issue, or like a conundrum I feel like people probably deal with all the time because, like to your point, there's some people who are like I know I can do this, just like, let me do it.

37:33 Fundamentally, you should never flat out lie, and the only reason I feel like the truth will always come out, but I think, if you're talking yes, to a certain extent, creative liberties are okay and how I've probably landed some of my jobs as well, and I think the way I'd say that, though, is I'm never going to lie or be dishonest about my ability to do anything, and so if you're, if you're, in a space where you know you can do the job, it's like okay. Well then, how can you tell the truth about what skills you have that showcase that Um? But from the creative liberty standpoint, I'd say job titles is probably the biggest thing. People change Um, and I'm not saying, like, make yourself a C-suite or a VP, but company titling is so different, so, like I'm just thinking like a director level at a company like Lululemon would be like a manager at Meta.

38:22 Okay and so, but director seems more senior when you think about like just the way our brains work. But it's not necessarily that the role scope actually might be the same. So if I'm at a company where they're giving me the title manager but I'm actually operating in a director function, I think it's okay to kind of, when you're applying to it being like I'm the director of this department and here's like the functions I produce. So internal job titling is so different from brand to brand that it doesn't really matter. Like people do also get really hung up on titles and why I say don't worry about it is because it's recruiters don't actually even know it's so different at every company. Okay, so the liberties would be you can just make sure you're telling the story and you're speaking the truth to what your role scope is. But if you need to like alter how that fits, then that works too.

39:03 - Chase (Host) Okay.

39:04 - Colleen (Guest) But I wouldn't ever like. If you need to be a people leader, yeah For the role. I would never say I've managed a team of four, yeah, if you haven't. I think what you can stay instead is I have three younger siblings.

39:14 Yeah, yes, Well, people say that in interviews, but I think there's a way to say like I had to manage multiple stakeholders at one time and I was dealing with consistent communication and feedback and this sets me not it's not a good idea to say, because sometimes even like if I'm gonna do, I mean, this is a controversial topic because I don't necessarily think they're always useful but we like controversy. No, but like background checks are sometimes or sorry, not reference checks, sorry are sometimes useful and sometimes they're not.

39:41 But if I'm gonna do reference checks, I might be able to like find out that you never managed a team and then it's going to be an immediate no because you lied um. The reason I say they're not useful sometimes is because I feel like everyone can probably think of two people that will say nice things about them.

39:54 - Chase (Host) Sure, yeah, so is that another strength in our resume when applying for a job is should we only ever include people that we feel confident, are going to say positive things about us on a reference, or when do we lean into, like you know what? I think this might be a gamble, but I know they're going to be very honest about performance and it might actually be to my advantage. It might just be delivered in a little bit less warm and fuzzy way.

40:16 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, and that's happens a lot. My advice would I coach my references.

40:21 - Chase (Host) You coach your references? How?

40:23 - Colleen (Guest) So if I'm applying for a job that again going back to the story they're asking for I'm going to call my references and say first, you're going to ask permission. I wouldn't don't give anyone. Make sure they have a heads up, right, yeah. So make sure you're always asking permission and also know hey, this call is going to come in the next couple of days. Also, while I have you on the phone, here's the six things that are really important to them.

40:46 Can you make sure you highlight that? Fine, but hopefully you don't based on like that's why I'm picking you because of our experience, but I would say like there is a way for you to coach a little bit and say, like here's the things that are important to them. Can you highlight them? Because again, they're going to make the connection easily. They're like oh, they said this. They said this. This is the right person for the job. Makes sense, yeah, and effort, yeah, yeah. Who?

41:13 - Chase (Host) to thunk. So, um, you know, at our core here Everford radio is a is a wellness, health and wellness show and you know my background and a lot of the background of topics and guests here on the show. We talk about that and I'm a firm believer that how you take care of your your mind, body, soul, you know your physical wellbeing, mental wellbeing is going to be a strong indicator as to how your professional self can you know your physical well-being, mental well-being is going to be a strong indicator as to how your professional self can you know, show up and endure really.

41:39 Now I don't know. I haven't been in the corporate world for a while, but I don't think there is a place on a resume to put you know your biomarkers or how well you are you know, to kind of let the recruiter or this hire this company know like I take care of myself.

41:53 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah.

41:53 - Chase (Host) And me again, personally speaking here. If I knew a person was taking care of themselves, going to yoga, going on walks, working out, you know, within a certain range, body fat or BMI or, hell, even certain biomarkers, I could get a unique snapshot.

42:08 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, knowing your background and what you know, it, that's show people. You were like, oh, I can see what it is.

42:12 - Chase (Host) Do you think there's a place for that in the modern day workforce, so that a company, a recruiter, can go? Not only do they have the requirements, but like they're taking care of themselves and they're going to be a stronger contender in the job place once they get there?

42:24 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah. So I'd say I definitely wouldn't say it's like a traditional mode on a resume, but I think like the way we see that come today, the way we see it come through, would be like sometimes people have like fun facts about me at the bottom Okay. And it'll be like you know, I've completed six Ironmans and uh resting heart rate is 48.

42:41 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's less that.

42:41 - Colleen (Guest) and more like I, um, I'm really passionate about nutrition. I wrote my own cookbook. Like there's pieces there where it also shows like here's like a little snapshot of me outside. But if I see, because like I'm using the iron man example because I remember being like that takes so much commitment for the amount of training you need to do that shows me that they can prioritize their time. That shows me that they know how to essentially calendar block. But like that shows me they know how they have time management, they have priority setting, um, they're clearly goal oriented. So I think some people might see that as like I just want people to know I did an Ironman. But you can see like not only do you take care of yourself, but you also have this mindset, Um, but no, I wouldn't say I've seen a true like a, a section on a resume that's like but I think there's a way to, but I do think there's a way to incorporate.

43:24 - Chase (Host) Like I, I value personal growth.

43:25 - Colleen (Guest) Um and I I value personal growth and I I value taking care of my myself in that, and I think it could be like mindful wellness is really important in the way, like I think, if you're talking about what companies are doing like mindfulness and wellness for their employees is becoming a little bit more relevant, which is useful.

43:45 But I think there's a way to you know, have that be like a part of depending on what the job is, but it's like, this is a part of like why I was successful in my role too, Um, and why my team was successful because we were grounded in the way we were communicating. But, um, I think you can showcase those things sort of in a in like a fun fact space without necessarily being like.

44:02 - Chase (Host) Here's my resting heart rate. Okay, although I'm weirdly proud of my resting heart rate, maybe you should be. I mean, or maybe if you, you know, when you apply for the job, you send a little friend request in your Apple Watch to like track each other's activities and I think like there also is a reality, like I don't do this every time, but recruiters do look at everything.

44:19 - Colleen (Guest) So I'm looking up your Instagram, I'm looking up your TikTok. I was just going to go into that, you know what or how much really does one's personal life.

44:28 - Chase (Host) Social media, the personal facing side of yourself, play a role into the professional side of you getting a job.

44:35 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, I would say, always have the mindset or the filter on that. Anyone can see it and so, whatever you're sharing, no judgment, but just know that that might come forward. And so I would say it depends on the role. I'm not looking at every search I do. I'm not looking at it, but there's some things like we do a lot of social content or content creator, influencer type hiring, so it's like I need to see how you're showing up on those platforms, but also like what's your message and your brand voice. And you know, like I've done internship hiring like pretty junior people too, like we do everything from sort of entry level interns all the way through C-suite executives, so we kind of have different departments that cover each one. But we did some intern hiring and we went on and this, this young woman was like just talking poorly about her old company loudly on the, you know, and maybe they deserved it, but it's like okay, well, there's a huge risk that you're just going to.

45:28 And I think also that's on the client to like operate in a mindful way and a nice like, treat your people well, like. This is a tangent, but it kind of goes off Everyone who interviews with you, at all times they're always going to be a brand ambassador for you. Even if they don't get the job, they're going to leave and talk about their experience. But yeah, I would a typical. I do a Google search of everyone and it's like what comes up? What comes up? So think about your imprint.

45:56 - Chase (Host) Well, it kind of leads me into another section I want to talk about, and that's you know, when we're looking at transitions by, you know, getting laid off, leaving jobs, promotions, pay raises, and so what do you think is the best way to quit a job and not burn a bridge?

46:12 - Colleen (Guest) Yes, great question. I think when you're feeling at the point where you want out, it's so hard not to be emotionally driven. So if you're at a breaking point, essentially like if you're at the point where you're like- this is it, I'm out.

46:27 It's like can we find a way to not yell and create a scene and like take emotion out of it? I'm out. It's like can we find a way to not yell and create a scene and like, take emotion out of it? So sometimes I, you know, like I don't know, even if you're trying to send a rough email, like take a day, take a breath, take a minute, but I think there's a way to, depending on who you're, I guess you'd be quitting to your manager, but being able to say like this isn't serving me anymore and you could be like I feel like I've. You can be honest, you're like I feel like I've given what I can to the role. I'm not seeing a growth path here. I found another opportunity that I think is more aligned with what I need.

46:57 - Chase (Host) So speaking more factually, less emotionally.

47:00 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, and you know I don't want to say like emotion's important, like again we're human beings and it's important to showcase that, and like there are exit interviews at a lot of company that allow you to sort of let that emotion a little bit more out. It's sort of like an anonymous like why are you leaving?

47:13 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I remember I had that with. It was like my last part with HR. Yeah, yeah, Like my last day and sometimes it's like an online form you fill out whatever.

47:20 - Colleen (Guest) And they are anonymous, so like we can't see, but you can kind of tell by timing. But I would say like you don't ever want to burn the bridge because so let's say, I work for you and it's not working out, and right now at this phase in my career it's not the right place and I want to quit. That doesn't mean in five years you might not be helpful for me in some way.

47:38 - Chase (Host) Yes, absolutely.

47:41 - Colleen (Guest) Especially in a small business ownership. Some of my clients are like people I worked with 10 years ago and it's just I kept that relationship. So I think, reminding yourself, even in that space where you want to get out and you want to quit your job, it's still a network and a piece Like they could talk to your next employer about you and it'll be like actually she handled that conversation really well. But I also like I want to be honest. I know it's hard when you're like, oh, I hate you and I want to get out. But I think there's a way to start. Take emotion out of it. There's a way to start. Take emotion out of it. You can still be clear about what's not working and just keep reminding yourself that they're going to be in your network.

48:16 - Chase (Host) And networks are useful for growth. I remember when I had this boiling point with my last career and I wanted to. It took every fiber of my being to not just like turn in my corporate card, leave my cell phone on the counter, Just like I'm out and just like walk out like. Jerry Maguire style. But I went out to the car and I called my then girlfriend, now wife. I called my brother and another friend of mine who you know were entrepreneurs.

48:42 Okay, and I just kind of used them as like verbal punching bags and I was like, hey guys, this is what's going on, like, and I just kind of like unloaded all the things, like I was pissed, I was angry and I just said all these things and they're like okay, cool, don't go back and say that, um, definitely don't say that.

48:57 Don't say that, don't say that, and so what? What worked well for me was kind of having that outlet and so I think just getting getting that heightened emotional state out and hearing it, seeing it, feeling it is very important for making helping seeing it feeling it is very important for making helping you make the next best choice. Now I did not go back in, I just let my direct report know like I'm leaving for the day and he can kind of sense that based on our last conversation, he's like okay, let's, we'll take this one, but you know we'll talk on Monday. So I think that's an important outlet. So it might just be the emotions aren't misguiding you, but you need to kind of reframe, yeah, and remember like they actually are telling you the right thing.

49:35 - Colleen (Guest) It's just like but how can I handle this and make sure that I always like to think about future, Colleen? Yes, so it's like is future Colleen going to look back and be like, oh, buddy, you shouldn't have that. So and we talk about AI, like you can put your exact angry thoughts into ChatGPT and say is there a way for you to take this feeling and turn it into a professional sentence?

49:57 - Chase (Host) So can we use ChatGPT to figure out the best way to quit a job?

50:01 - Colleen (Guest) Well, I just feel like I've used it before when I've been really frustrated and been like this is the situation, this is what happened. I'm so mad. Wow, can you help me draft an email response that sounds professional? I'm so mad. Can you help me draft an email response that sounds professional. And what's awesome is it's still and you can. You still have to edit it to sound like your own voice, but it allows you to be like oh, that's so much better than me just yelling.

50:18 - Chase (Host) That sounds so much nicer.

50:19 - Colleen (Guest) So I do think I completely agree with you Like take a beat.

50:22 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

50:23 - Colleen (Guest) It would be like take a minute, take a breath. Also, like don't hide the truth. I think there's just a reality that you can handle it in a professional way, because burning the bridge is never worth it. I know some people might disagree with me on that, but I don't know. I think really all of my success in building a client base has been through networking and people I know and people I've met. So I can't imagine wanting to like burn the opportunity that maybe in the future we could help each other. I don't know.

50:49 - Chase (Host) I've definitely come close. I think it's. It's definitely very important to me and at the forefront of my mind, no matter the situation or the circumstance, to not burn a bridge, but I have definitely put a lot of stakes in the ground and going Chase you never need to go back over this bridge ever again.

51:03 - Colleen (Guest) Trusting that and I will I think we should also add the caveat like if you're not safe or you're being sexually harassed or anything, burn it, but I, I think, like I'm I'm speaking in, like the high level overview of most of the time. You don't want to burn the bridge If you're ever in a place where you're being harmed or you're not safe or anything like that like yes, please burn that mother down, burn it down. Most of the time you want. You might be useful for you. I don't know. It's important.

51:25 - Chase (Host) Speaking of. I know that you were part of a mass layoff. Yes, how was that a positive catalyst? How did you eventually get to a point of using that for your benefit?

51:34 - Colleen (Guest) Because that's a hard thing to go through, man. It's so hard not to take it personally, even when it's like 2000 people at one time.

51:40 - Chase (Host) What was it like? Paint that picture?

51:41 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, so I also. This is a great example, too, to think about. Like companies, you should think about how you lay people off. Some companies do it so much better than other people. This one wasn't. It wasn't handled poorly, I think. For me, like my, one of my areas of opportunity is not making it about me. I'm sure, I've talked about this a lot, but it's like. So my immediate brain goes like oh, I'm bad at my job. Oh, I must be a bad person, Okay, you deserve this.

52:06 - Chase (Host) No wonder what took them so long.

52:07 - Colleen (Guest) Oh man, I guess they finally figured me out and so, but, um, I think the biggest piece was like so your part, all of a sudden you go from I don't know like having meetings scheduled for the day to then you see this little like bloop, bloop, do you have 15 minutes to chat? And it's with someone you don't normally talk to, plus HR, and you're like, oh no, and I think like, um, at this particular company too, like it had layoffs were sort of every couple years, like it felt common.

52:34 It almost was like oh no, it's my turn, sort of it's layoffs. Um, here we are, and so I remember the conversation and just me being who I am, I was, my media brain was like is my team okay? Like who's still safe?

52:43 - Chase (Host) like that's what I thought you're getting the axe and you're still asking about I know well because I'm a manager of these people, like everyone has livelihoods and families and things Anyway.

52:51 - Colleen (Guest) So but I remember, like the biggest shock, just being like you lose access to everything immediately. So all of a sudden you're like whoa, like I don't know. It felt, I think, the positive side of it. So let's find the, let's find the silver lining, cause that's who I am as a person.

53:04 But it's really cool to wake up the next day and not, I mean, I didn't have kids at the time, so, but like waking up and be like I don't have anything due, I have no one expecting anything from me Again no kids at the time and it forces you like if you're talking about like a catalyst, it forces you to reevaluate what's working and what's not working in your work life.

53:28 And, um, during my time internally recruitment like I've been in house for a long time before I made my own agency I worked with so many external partners and the experience sort of never landed for me Okay and this created a gap to start something. So I got to give my husband Brian shout out, brian, he gets all the credit. He told me for years stop complaining about what people are doing wrong, then and change it, cause I would come to him and be like I don't know why people treat people like this. And he finally was like I think you can do it, so why don't you try? And so, if you're talking about a catalyst, it created a space for me. So I started this this being Lynchpin on the side really side hustle, because I was still looking for another, I still needed money, so I was-.

54:09 - Chase (Host) So was your business alive while you were still gainfully employed, Did you have? Was it like? Side hustle or like oh, I got laid off. Now I got to create my own business.

54:17 - Colleen (Guest) No, I think I got laid off and it just created the space for me to start thinking about it. Okay, but then I still went back to work. I had two more jobs before I officially went full-time, but it allowed me to start being like what could that look like? And so I kind of I don't know started the wheels.

54:30 I guess and then I had I worked at a cannabis company and I worked at a tech company still, while linchpin was extreme side hustle um, it was like I don't know a couple clients a year, vacation money and kind of be like I'm creating what I want and it's working.

54:43 - Chase (Host) Free coffee every month and money, yeah, and then there's a small business entrepreneur struggle.

54:49 - Colleen (Guest) All the time is like, yeah, when do I take the leap and go all in, and sometimes you're sort of forced and sometimes you're not. But in my case I went on my first maternity leave and all of my business development efforts kind of came to fruition at one time and so thinking back, it's like what are you doing? That was like the craziest risk to take. I literally had like a one week old and made the decision that I was like, okay, I guess we're not going to take Matt leaving. I'm going to try this and um, having literally just gone through that two weeks ago.

55:20 - Chase (Host) I cannot imagine.

55:20 - Colleen (Guest) I literally don't know how I did it, to be honest, because it was like I was like trying to create this vision plus trying to learn how to be a parent, because when it's your first time, it's really scary, because you're like, ok, they let me leave the hospital with the baby and now I'm just allowed to have it. Ok, what do I do? I'm not qualified for this. Like superpower, like purpose, I don't know. Parenting for me really gave me intention behind, like I want to be a great role model for my kids.

55:51 I want to show them that they can do anything and I don't know. I feel like you make it work. You're doing it right now. You're probably so tired. You're probably getting up every couple hours.

56:00 - Chase (Host) My life now is just three hours at a time.

56:01 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, that's right. Every three hours I need to feed, I need to poop.

56:05 - Chase (Host) I need to burp, I need to eat, and it's just watch watch repeat.

56:13 - Colleen (Guest) So, but in that, okay, you're in this right now this is a good thing, you can see though they do sleep, especially when they're new.

56:16 They are sleeping for a significant amount of the day really. So those two to three hour windows, it just turned into like I I'm very present with him, with my son, when I need to be, and then I can work for two hours, and then I'd say, the part that's hard is your brain. I'm sure you're experiencing it. Your brain stops working a little bit because you haven't slept, and so I remember I had to be like very mind before you send anything like a lot of time.

56:38 - Chase (Host) I'd call my husband and because we tried to please proofread this, he was getting a little bit more sleep than me.

56:44 - Colleen (Guest) So I was like I need someone who's like a little bit more, or I'd like send it to friends or something. So like that was a big learning was like just don't put send right away because you haven't slept in three days. So, um, relying on your community, it takes a village or whatever they say so it does, it really does.

56:58 - Chase (Host) Um, so you were talking about. You know you were in a unique situation of getting laid off and then kind of jumping into your new business. But a lot of people struggle for too long. In my experience and I'm kind of raising my hand here- as well. You know, hindsight is 20-20. When I look back oh, I could have left my job way sooner than I did.

57:16 - Colleen (Guest) Oh yeah, like when to do it? So?

57:17 - Chase (Host) when is the best time to leave the 9 to 5 and to jump all into our own business?

57:21 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, so I think, and a lot of the time people call me a lot when they're trying to start a recruitment firm and they're like, what did? You do and how did this work and I'm happy to have the conversation. One thing I would say, just me personally don't go all in right away, would be my.

57:33 - Chase (Host) I think, no-transcript.

57:49 - Colleen (Guest) Not that you can't go all in, but I think, like for me, part of that decision was like, if I'm making more in this side hustle in six months than I make in a year, so like I think you can set a financial goal too, like I don't know, let's say your base salary is, let's use 100K. It's an easy number, so like I'm making 100K a year at this full-time job, I have benefits. Like let's weigh out all the things that are in this. I have consistency. I know I'm going to get the same pay all the time, but there is going to be a point where you're making that same amount of money or more. You at least know you're ready to move forward. I think the things you need to sort out are understanding it's very volatile and it's, I mean, especially in recruitment. We're only as busy as we are busy and so just knowing you have to be able to walk away and be like can I pay for things if I have nothing for four months or three months?

58:43 - Chase (Host) or whatever that looks like and so kind of have that like safety egg.

58:45 - Colleen (Guest) I feel like from like a Matt, like a numbers perspective, like I remember, like she called me and she was like, oh, I've made like my base salary in three months and I'm like, oh, you're fine, you're ready, yeah.

58:56 - Chase (Host) Important to note there. You made your base salary in three months months while also working a full-time job.

59:05 - Colleen (Guest) So I think the logic there is like imagine what you could do full in Well and from a recruiting perspective this may be an unpopular opinion but, like I told my companies that I was doing linchpin on the side Cause I'm I wanted to be honest and transparent about it and I was really open about it.

59:16 I was like, listen, I'm, I have a recruiting thing on the side that's like separate from your industry industry. So like when I was in tech and I also had a manager who was very supportive but she was like cool, don't, you can't have any clients in our space, okay. Like it was like we're in a very niche market no, because we're not stealing from any whatever, but like if I'm hiring like a lawyer and I'm not doing any legally hiring for them, like she's like I don't care as long as there's no overlap. And what's cool is when I decided to go all in, one of the first transitions was taking my roles that I was working on for them and I got them as the agency.

59:49 - Chase (Host) Oh, wow.

59:50 - Colleen (Guest) Because probably I think I was honest about it, I was transparent, I built that relationship. They knew I was great at my job and they're like, okay, well, if you're leaving, and I was like I'm happy to take those on, there's just going to be a commission now.

01:00:01 - Chase (Host) And so that allowed me, but it also allowed me to have that right I had money coming in pretty quickly, so I didn't have to build my client base from nothing.

01:00:09 - Colleen (Guest) So if you're thinking about a recruiting business, think about who you currently work for. They could be your next client. They could be your first client.

01:00:15 - Chase (Host) Do you think we should always let our current employer know that we have a side hustle?

01:00:30 - Colleen (Guest) That have a side hustle, it's that's challenging because there are some people who, like, would absolutely say no to it. Um, so I think, like only if it's in the same industry, kind of thing. Yeah, like I think for sure, I felt like I had to, to be honest, because, because it was the same, I felt. But like if I'm working in recruiting and I have like an etsy hustle where I like knit blankets, you don't need to tell them.

01:00:40 - Chase (Host) I think you're fine. Yeah, and that's great that.

01:00:42 - Colleen (Guest) That's an amazing, and I feel like we're in the economy now, like everyone has a side hustle. It feels like, but I don't know, it felt wrong to me. Um, I don't think you have to. I don't think there's like a legal requirement to do it. You just it cannot affect your job at all, like this isn't going to work, but I trust you and if you're going to do this in your evenings and your weekends and that's how you want to spend your free time, okay, um, but I, I don't know, I felt like it would be wrong not to, because it's the exact same job, um, and I missed out, right, Like, tech is a huge hiring space, all right, all right.

01:01:16 - Chase (Host) Yeah, there's this this mentality, this mindset to entrepreneurship that I've I've heard a long time and I've struggled with for years, but honestly I can say now I wholeheartedly agree with it.

01:01:35 - Colleen (Guest) Right, okay, I want to get your take on it. Tell me.

01:01:37 - Chase (Host) You can never truly be free until you work for yourself. Free until you work for yourself. I 100% agree with that, okay, great why.

01:01:43 - Colleen (Guest) Yes, because I, as an entrepreneur now, I am in complete control of who I work with, when I work, what I work on, how much I pay myself, all of it. And when you work for someone else, even if you love your job and you have flexibility and you're remote and you can control a lot of things, at the end of the day, you're still working for them and they're the ones dictating what you're working on, what your targets need to be, what project deadlines need to be hit, and so I think the counterpoint to that would be like how you're never really free, even when you work for yourself, is like it doesn't actually ever turn off.

01:02:21 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's like golden handcuffs.

01:02:22 - Colleen (Guest) You're free in the way that you're like I pick my kids up from daycare every day and I it's Tuesday and I don't want to, so I'm not going to work today and I'm going to go do this, and then maybe I'll work on the weekend, cause I need to make up. So there's like a lot of flexibility, but I don't think I'll ever actually go on vacation again. What do you mean?

01:02:39 like I'll be away, like a real like the hard, pto, like no like I'm turning my phone off and never yeah but I think that's because it's my baby and I care about it and this is my business and I want it to do well. But I've I've gotten a lot better at like again. When you start, you do everything yourself, right, but now I've hired a team and I can delegate so I'm able to like, even with new baby coming, you're like, oh my gosh, here we go again, we're gonna work, but it's like I'm going to be able to delegate a lot, but I'm still there because I want to put the fires out that need to be put out, or I want to. I want to know exactly what's going on, because I care about the growth of my company. So I think you're free yes and no, because it's gonna until I sell the company and I'm on a yacht somewhere I don't think it ever goes away, but you know, we chose it.

01:03:20 - Chase (Host) It never really goes away. I even I've thought about that more and more, you know, like, oh, if I sell the company, like what would I do? Like, could I, could I actually just do nothing? Um?

01:03:29 - Colleen (Guest) no, probably not no.

01:03:30 - Chase (Host) The entrepreneur mentality. When you care that much and you know, even though, like, you sell your company and you believe and you know that I can still make it better and you stay attached to it. I think that's just an incredible testament of like, what you can do if you continue to like, keep promises to yourself and, just like, put pedal to the metal and create something more than yourself.

01:03:52 - Colleen (Guest) And you also hear there's so many people too in this space who sell a company or get acquired, and they have so much money and they're like no, but then they just start another company because they love it.

01:04:00 Actually, my husband and I talk about this a lot Like if we won a gazillion dollars tomorrow, like, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of fun things we do, but I don't think you could ever do nothing, and I don't know what example is that setting for my kids either. So I think, like there's also like this again, you're in this like weird role model mindset where you, yeah, I'm sure we'd like travel and do a lot of fun stuff, but I don't think you'd ever do nothing. I think you'd find a way to give back, you'd find a way to start.

01:04:26 - Chase (Host) So on the other side of entrepreneurship.

01:04:28 I don't know if you've ever gotten comments like this, but I feel like there's some zingers thrown by people who don't know the full picture or think we live some extremely lavish lifestyle and just you know, oh, we created a company so we can do whatever we want whenever we want. And I've gotten this. You know versions of like this, versions of this before, of like oh you're, you're so lucky that you can do this, or it's so fortunate, or it's easy for you because, like, you can take off whenever you want, or you can blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you ever get comments like that? How does that land on you and what do you say to people like that?

01:05:01 - Colleen (Guest) There's two things that come up. One is it's so incredibly hard, and so when everyone thinks it's easy, I mean maybe that means we're doing a good job of making it look smooth. But, like man, it's hard, right. But yeah, I think I definitely get comments like, yeah, you're so lucky. And it's like well, you got to remember like I'm. I'm the luck is that I hustled and created it. So, yeah, but I think, more than anything, specifically in my industry, there's kind of a bad rep on a lot of recruiters and a lot of recruiting agencies. So I get more of like ugh, like, okay, you're a recruiter.

01:05:31 - Chase (Host) Ugh, slimy gross. Why do you think that is?

01:05:33 - Colleen (Guest) I think there is a reputation for not caring like the human. We talk about human side, so like not caring about the human side. It's just commission, I just need to put it like I need to hire someone, they need to stay for 90 days. So I hit my commission I don't care who you are, I don't know what it looks like, or we're not taking time to consider what the client wants. Like there's these big behemoth companies who have taken the human side out of hiring and that's what when they think of recruiting. So I feel like the more negative comments I get is more like oh okay, recruiting, cool, you're a headhunter and you're like ugh.

01:06:05 And it's like that's my job, though, I guess to showcase and like. Unfortunately, the best way to show someone is to have them hire you, so I need people to trust me enough to like let me get one role with you and I'll show you how different it could be. Side people think I don't like the word luck. It boils my blood. Yeah, because I like if you're saying like you're so lucky that you did this, it's like well, yeah, we can use the word luck around like I feel like gratitude around the life I have and like the flexibility I have, but like I worked really hard to do it, so it does feel a little dismissive to me.

01:06:40 - Chase (Host) Um, I made the hardest choice of my life by quitting my job and leaving safety and security and benefits to step into the unknown for years and we've talked about this all the time.

01:06:50 - Colleen (Guest) but like when you start a business, you're an expert in one thing. You're not an expert in every department. So all of a sudden I'm supposed to know how to do everything and it's like that's actually a crazy burden and there's guilt and pressure and nerves around it. So I think the luck piece to me feels like it sort of downgrades all the effort you put into it. But, I'm hopeful that people are saying it just because from a good place, but it doesn't always land that way.

01:07:11 - Chase (Host) No, it does not. Yeah, luck is what they say is where opportunity meets hard work.

01:07:16 - Colleen (Guest) Right, yeah, like I'm lucky, but sure. But but sure, sure, but I still think like and to your point. I do feel like people think it's a really smooth thing. Like I remember, at the very beginning I was like, oh my god, you must be making so much money.

01:07:27 - Chase (Host) And you're like oh no, at the very beginning I wasn't paying myself at all.

01:07:29 - Colleen (Guest) I was like just so grateful my husband had an income, um, so I think that's like a maybe a misconception, yeah, and like yeah, definitely you have the potential to make significantly more money than you would working in-house, when you have your own thing, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. So and I think people think that though- they do. And it takes a couple of years Like it wasn't. It wasn't until like two and a half years till I started feeling like, okay, I'm, this is okay.

01:07:54 I see it now. I'm like okay, like let's move into like sugar mama territory you know, but but. I do feel like that beginning is so hard and like you're hitting so many roadblocks and, I think, people, but maybe we're not talking about it enough. I don't know.

01:08:06 Maybe we need to, like, talk more about what's not working uh, yeah, because I think that's a really good point, because probably yeah, and I don't want to speak for everyone, but, like in my case, you want people to think you're successful I want everyone to think this is going well, and it's easy, and I'm making money and it's great you want the client to work with you, because I want them to come to me, but maybe there's a value in saying like this is really hard. I don't know, Maybe that was our own doing.

01:08:26 - Chase (Host) That's a really good point and I've you know kind of shared a few things of you know, the ugly side or the non glitz and glam side of entrepreneurship on, you know, just on Instagram stories before, and it's been like huge outpouring, Like. Thank you so much for sharing this and uh like oh, it also was a great connection piece for me with other entrepreneurs or just side hustlers.

01:08:47 - Colleen (Guest) But like oh, I see you, I see you, I didn't know anyone else struggled with the same thing as well, or like hey, here's what worked for me.

01:08:53 Try this and it's been like a game changer, right? Yeah, I definitely think one thing for me, like just the working mom side, is I remember when I first, like when I got pregnant with my second child um, with pregnant with her, I didn't want anyone to know why, cause I thought my clients wouldn't want to work with me because they were like she's going to go on mat leave and she's not going to be present, and so like I got really nervous about being like you know, at least you're on zoom and I'm like I'm lucky I didn't gain weight in my face.

01:09:19 So, it was kind of just like oh my gosh. And then you really were like oh yeah, I'm doing like three weeks whatever. But I think I remember like I hate, so I hate even saying it, I hate that. That was even a thought process. But when I started sharing it and being like oh my gosh, having a newborn and trying to run a business and this is really hard man, it was a game changer. Like yeah, you talk about outreach, outpouring, connecting with people, and then I actually got clients from it because they're like I love seeing this side of you.

01:09:42 - Chase (Host) Oh, I didn't know you were a mom. Yeah, me too, like you know.

01:09:47 - Colleen (Guest) I know we're going to relate more or like products that are for moms or like different things like that. So I think, like second child Colleen was like oh God, I don't want anyone to know. I want them to still think I'm committed and it's like, or I can show them that I'm all of these things and it's actually really helped. So now I'm trying to be like yeah, I'm a working mom and it's amazing, Own it.

01:10:04 - Chase (Host) I'm a firm believer the more we own our personal selves in terms of like, personal transformation and identity and comfort level especially as an entrepreneur like that is how you're going to thrive professionally, because it's all you, and so you'd be remiss to think that you can just be all you professionally without also being all you personally, because it's one and the same.

01:10:30 - Colleen (Guest) You can tell when someone, when something, feels authentic to someone or not. And like if even just think about hiring, like if we're super aligned with the clients, we're working with man, that process is easy.

01:10:38 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah.

01:10:39 - Colleen (Guest) You're so easy to hire for because I'm aligned with who you are and how you operate, and so, yeah, you're totally right, it kind of like they leak into each other. It's so true, that's so interesting.

01:10:48 - Chase (Host) Well, this has been incredible, kind of getting towards the end here. I have another question for you before I get to my final question. You know, as we look to the rest of 2025, we still got majority of the year left. How and I know this might be a hard question to answer, oh God, just blanket statement Okay, how could one future-proof their business as an entrepreneur in 2025?

01:11:09 - Colleen (Guest) Okay.

01:11:10 - Chase (Host) How could they focus this year on building and future-proofing their business for this year and the next 10 years?

01:11:15 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, great question. I wish I had an easy answer, but I think my blanket overarching statement, like my one word, would be preparedness. So I think there's like a um, oh, my gosh, what's the word? Colleen, mom, brain Contingency planning.

01:11:29 And so I think, that's one thing that I never really thought about. I think I just like consistently, was like well, I'm always going to get clients and it's going to be great and everything's going to be fine, and but it's like we want to have four months of overhead costs in the account at all time. But I'd never want it to go below that, to know that if there's, for some reason, but for some reason we have no money coming in, we can survive for four months or whatever.

01:11:53 So I do think there's an ability to like, if you're talking about future proofing one, find your own voice, like I think I get so distracted sometimes by competitors and what they're doing and I feel like I well, they look successful, so maybe I should be doing that. So it's like remembering your north star, remembering why you're doing it and stay true to that. And then, on top of that, like you need to plan for what might not work and what could work. And then, when you're thinking about future of work, like I think something that's so interesting is like AI and automation and what this looks like and how that's going to impact the workforce, and I think, yes, there's going to be jobs that are taken away from this, but I think there's also going to be a ton of opportunities. So, like, how can we find a way to integrate those things into?

01:12:31 our business I think we need to get on board is where I'm at on that.

01:12:34 - Chase (Host) Yeah, could not agree more. Yeah, what comes to mind for me in that is you know, yeah, tell me your thoughts.

01:12:39 I think you know, developing more revenue streams, you know, are great contingencies, you know doing things that, even if it's just, I don't know, everyone's in a different situation, so I'm not trying to downplay or upplay any dollar amount here, but you know, even just you know, if it's, if you got a couple hundred extra bucks, if you got something that is bringing in a couple hundred extra bucks a month for me, like those are kind of like dollars that I've grown to kind of like forget about.

01:13:02 - Colleen (Guest) And sort of like a push and play too, like you're not having to put a lot of energy, exactly yeah.

01:13:05 - Chase (Host) Like I've got some partnerships, just like old affiliate, like podcast partnerships and stuff that. I'm now grateful for like past chase of having the long road ahead. You know what's the word I'm looking for Like thinking far ahead, of not just like how can I make money now, but how can I build something that's going to like triple and trickle in later. So now I've got things that like I don't promote at all, I haven't talked about it at all, or like it's like no longer a good fit.

01:13:29 - Colleen (Guest) But there's still income coming.

01:13:30 - Chase (Host) But I'm still making. I got one last week. It was like 800 bucks. Yeah, for something that I haven't talked about. I don't believe it anymore. No, no, no, but it's just the fact that I did something, I set something up. So now, like you know, my wife and I were taking before I come back from my paternity leave we're taking like a three-day road trip, you know, up Northern California and like that, paid for it.

01:13:51 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, that's amazing. I got the Airbnb. Yeah, of like PDFs, that was something.

01:14:00 - Chase (Host) I did last year because that was one of my goals.

01:14:01 - Colleen (Guest) Last year was multiple intercom streams.

01:14:02 - Chase (Host) So you just kind of like brain dumped, you know your experience and like here's something that's useful and it's not.

01:14:06 - Colleen (Guest) this is by no means my bread winner.

01:14:08 - Chase (Host) Like I'm not making.

01:14:09 - Colleen (Guest) but yeah, I'll get a couple thousand dollars a month from, like, people picking up different training decks or onboarding decks or things like that. But I mean, I could learn from you too, like I only have one business right now. Is there something else I could be doing and how else could I continue? Because, yes, this one stream is working, but you're right, like, what else can I be doing?

01:14:27 - Chase (Host) and how else?

01:14:28 - Colleen (Guest) can I grow that? That's such a good piece of advice.

01:14:30 - Chase (Host) Another thing that's worked well for me over the years. I mean, you're in it now. My second business is the podcast production company in these studios and time podcaster and committing wholeheartedly to that to grow that as my main job, my main income. I realized that, like what I'm doing is also a business, Like I'm doing it for me as its own revenue generating platform, but that in and of itself is another business model.

01:14:54 - Colleen (Guest) And then you can help other people Exactly, yeah, so.

01:14:56 - Chase (Host) I just kind of like I took what I did to all one like offset my own costs. So, like you know, I don't rent my own studio anymore. I pay all the overhead. But like you know, what I guess I'm trying to say is like what you do to generate your own money might also be its own new business for somebody.

01:15:13 - Colleen (Guest) Yes, okay, I like that, so you can kind of like leverage what you're doing, cause it's well and it's already like yeah, it's transferable skillset. It's like it's already what you know and what you love and what you're passionate about exactly, yeah I think there's.

01:15:21 There's so much value in thinking about and you're helping people too, like you're still getting to give back, which is kind of cool too, but which is my ultimate goal with ever for radio how can I help the most amount of people, um and so now it's just like you can do it at scale and I can make money while yeah, hey, that's okay, yeah, I don't need to be.

01:15:40 - Chase (Host) That's such a point. I don't need to be recording a new podcast or putting out a new podcast episode to make money from podcasting. That's right, amazing One of my favorite things at home is like, I'll see like the booking notification will go off. Oh new client, oh new client.

01:15:52 - Colleen (Guest) Oh, new session. Oh, new session, that's so good.

01:15:54 - Chase (Host) Especially now with a kid.

01:15:58 - Colleen (Guest) I 100% what I we always joke about. I don't know why my husband and I always talk about space camp in our brain, but for some reason YouTube camp whatever, but it was like so, every time I close the role it's like oh Carter, you're going to space camp, buddy, that's so funny, that's so good.

01:16:12 - Chase (Host) So my final question tell me that. Ask everybody, let's bring it back to the theme of the show here. You know, hopefully this information, I know it's helped me, but I my goal is to bring on experts and people and community leaders and all the things to bring attention and awareness to key areas of our life, personally and professionally, to help us move forward in that area and collectively Ever forward those two words what do they mean to you?

01:16:34 - Colleen (Guest) Yes, this is such a good question and I think like it's so easy to like when your brain just hears the word forward, you move a forward momentum Like that's where your brain goes, but I think I'm going to hears the word forward. You move a forward momentum, like that's where your brain goes, but I think I'm gonna use the word forward and but talk about going backwards okay, how so?

01:16:47 so I think to me, ever forward means I'm gonna use the word north shore, but like really just end goal, so I have an end goal, okay, and ever forward is like I'm never gonna lose sight of that. But during that, I think like resiliency is to come into play, because you're never it's not a straight path to success, like I think it looks like and it's like back and forth.

01:17:08 So I think ever forward to me is like you're consistently moving towards that goal, regardless of what that looks like and it doesn't just have to be in your business, this could be in your personal life as well Like, I don't know, like a weight loss journey, it's not always going to be linear either, like nothing really looks like that. So I think, continuously taking one step forward, but maybe it's a step back, and maybe it's a step to the side and maybe, but like I think it's consistently reminding yourself that you have that end goal you're trying to get to and consistently evaluating if that end goal is still what you want because, that can shift, it can move, and so I think like I'm going to stay ever forward, but know that it's okay to go backwards too, but the forward motion is like I'm still moving towards the goal, that I wonder what I'm trying to be or who I'm trying to be.

01:17:44 - Chase (Host) What I'm hearing in that is that forward is not a necessarily a direction, it's a mindset.

01:17:50 - Colleen (Guest) That's right, a hundred percent, because by choice or circumstance.

01:17:53 - Chase (Host) Should we take a step back or not feel like we're advancing?

01:17:57 - Colleen (Guest) if we choose to believe that we're still moving forward, than we are Well cause, like when you make a mistake or take a step back. You mean like what, every day?

01:18:04 - Chase (Host) Yes, like it's all the time and so.

01:18:06 - Colleen (Guest) I think there's so much power and resiliency in taking those negative things or those setbacks and like how do we turn that into something positive and learn from it, Because that's gonna propel you forward right?

01:18:16 - Chase (Host) That's what we're all about.

01:18:17 - Colleen (Guest) I hope so. Great interpretation. There's never a right or wrong answer. I know I love that yeah.

01:18:21 - Chase (Host) Where can my audience go to connect with you and learn more about what you do in the world?

01:18:24 - Colleen (Guest) Yeah, so Lynchpin's platforms are sort of like Instagram and LinkedIn. So, like on Instagram, we're at the Lynchpin Co and then I'm at C Pelly, but I would say a lot of like my work, content and recruiting and that knowledge is going to be at the Lynchpin Co. Please follow along. And then, yeah, on LinkedIn, um Blinch Winko.

01:18:41 - Chase (Host) So those are probably two main platforms. It'll all be linked down in the show notes and video description box for you watching listening uh Colleen this was great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That was so good. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwarddradio.com