EFR 862: The Navy SEAL Art of War and Leadership Lessons from the World's Most Elite Fighting Force with Robert Roy

00:01 - Rob (Guest) The following is an Operation Podcast production. What do you think are two of the most important lessons you learned about leadership during your time in the Navy SEALs? I learned two things.

00:13 - Chase (Host) And that is what you do as a leader. Your job is you know you can spend 90% of your time working on your stuff, but you still got to spend 90% of your time working on the other people's stuff, and the 10% of the time is for other people. But so you have to balance those two nineties. You have to combine them somehow, because your number one job is to inspire people to do the jobs that you need them to do. You're the visionary or you're the strategic person within that organization. That's not leadership, that's managing. You're managing expectations, and you don't want to do that as well. You never want to manage expectations. What you want to do is encourage people to always push forward. Whatever those things you don't want them to do, they will start doing and it becomes infectious, and then it's like, well, let him do all the work. He can do all the work. He's the number one guy. People get bitter if they don't have an opportunity or they leave because your people want you to leave. Hey, I'm Rob Roy.

01:10 - Rob (Guest) I am the CEO, trident Coaching and Consulting, and I'm here today with Chase on Ever Forward. Hello and welcome back to Ever Forward Radio. I'm your host, chase. Schooning Army veteran wellness entrepreneur. And that veteran part is going to come into play today because my guest is none other than Rob Roy akaka Rob Chief Roy.

01:25 He is a 25-year veteran of the US Navy and, get this even, a member of the prestigious, probably one of the most notable badass special forces groups in the military Navy SEAL Team 6. He has effectively moved from the combat zone to the corporate world as an acclaimed business consultant and management advisor. Now, with over two decades of expertise in clandestine operations, crucial missions and instructing over 500 aspiring SEALs, rob has decided to apply his distinctive background to create what he calls Trident Coaching and Consulting, and this is where, in his work and in our conversation today, he helps provide effective development courses, advice and insight for leaders and businesses really across the globe, on things like management, organizational dynamics and, honestly, just getting out of your own damn way. If you like what Rob has to say, check out his work. I'm going to have it linked for you down in the show notes, as always. He's got an incredible book out called the Art of War Leadership Lessons from a Navy SEAL, and in that and again in our conversation today, he extracts crucial insights from the military experience and transforms them into applicable guidance for you, me, anybody, everybody out there in the professional world, but especially for you working professionals and executives. In our conversation today, you're going to learn how applying Navy SEAL mental toughness techniques are going to give you optimal health and wellness, how the discipline and resilience he learned in the military can lead to a healthier lifestyle, both physically and mentally, leveraging leadership principles from special operations to inspire wellness, and how to live a life ever forward in all of us, and so much more. All right, I'm going to shut up because even though I did some cool stuff in the army, I am no Navy SEAL. So let's go learn what Rob has to say.

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04:58 - Chase (Host) environment. Well, it's not managing equipment. So a lot of times people think those two things are synonymous, like your supervisor is a leader and they're not. It's the role they play, or your director is as a leader. That's not. They usually say those things are together. They're not.

05:14 A leader is a person that inspires you, that they, they inspire you and then they guide you right. Inspiration and guidance those are the two things a leader can do for you, um, and what we should expect them is they're always going to take care. So there's an integrity, part of what of that as well. So does this person have the integrity to follow through and have the boundaries that they set with me and they set with everybody else? They don't do that, then I can't trust them. If I can't trust you, then I don't want to really work for you.

05:43 Um, I was explaining to a friend of mine when I was driving up today and they were like, well, I kind of trust them, and she's talking about her boyfriend. I said, whoa, um, no, no, she was talking about her boyfriend, but she was talking about something else that was related to her boyfriend, about a business deal, and she said, well, I kind of trust him, so I may invest in this company. And I said, um, you kind of trust him, she goes. Yeah, you know not 100. But I said so if a guy cheat on you and you think he'd ever cheat on you again, she goes. Yeah, I said, do you trust him, she goes? Well, I said, do you kind of kind of kind of trust him she goes because, no, I go.

06:16 It's the same thing in the business if you kind of trust somebody, you don't trust them yeah, what kind of trust is?

06:20 that that's not trust. I said if they're 90 percent, it's in business. If you can't trust them 100, then you shouldn't be in business with them. And that's same with the customer that goes and gets a product. I can't trust that the salesman's gonna be 100 honest with me. And here's the thing about honesty. Honesty is about, uh, giving you the correct answer for the question you ask. But I want them to be transparent with me. I want them to tell me everything that's related to that question, as opposed to saying, yeah, that car won't break, how about? That car has a safety record of 10 years and we've had very few failures of this device or this car has. I'm using car as an example automotive. But to give me the entire story, just don't give me the answer to the question that I have, because omission is still a lie. So people confused that I'm going to be transparent with you. No, you're going to be honest with me, but that's not transparency. Transparency is telling me everything.

07:14 - Rob (Guest) Take us back to this inspire and guide principle. I love that combination of a good leader inspires I don't think anybody would disagree with that. But it's the second component, that really where the rubber meets the road. So walk us through the difference, or even the necessity in a good leader to inspire and guide.

07:32 - Chase (Host) I'll give you let's say you own like I like telling stories. Let's say you own a mail company and this is for the young people this is going to sound crazy, but let's say that that kid you have working for you. Mail or field doesn't matter these days. I got to say that and that person sorts the mail. In the old buildings they used to have the mail sorters and they would take the mail up to the office. So you go down there as a CEO of a company and you say, hey, that person sorts the mail better than everybody else. They deliver the mail on time. They're fantastic.

08:00 I want to move them up to another job. I want to give them a sales job. And they're going to work for Bob over here or Susan, it doesn't matter. We're going to put them out there, put them in there. We give them very little training on the new job for sales. Now they were performing 100% down this other place. They were magnificent, everybody loved them and you were having them help other people train other people to be just as good as they were. They pulled. Now he works for sales or marketing and now he's just, he's the lowest performer and they're not functioning well within the group. It doesn't, doesn't get along with anybody else fish out of water at that point?

08:30 definitely fish out of water. And so how do you get them to be that same performer down there? Well, there's a transition from that job to this job, but you have to guide them to the new organization or new group they're going to be a part of. And that's what I mean by guiding them. You got to guide them to be successful. You just can't hire a person and say, well, they're going to be successful because they were successful over there. Well, there are people out there that are like that, but not very many.

08:50 In my lifetime I've never seen it where somebody was good at everything they did in every department they worked at. So, as a leader, you would take because you have to take 90% of your time working on your stuff, but you still got to spend 90% of your time working on the other people's stuff and the 10% of the time is for other people. So you have to balance those two 90s. You have to combine them somehow, because your number one job is to inspire people to do the jobs that you need them to do. You're the visionary or you're the strategic person within that organization and you're not supposed to be doing all the work that they're supposed to do. So you need to train them and take that 90 you have so they can. They can pick up that 90 where you can spend all your time working with your people and ensure that they're doing the things they're supposed to, training them, setting up training for them so they can do it. That goes back goes back to delegation as well.

09:44 - Rob (Guest) You're kind of rattling. This, I think, age-old analogy that we've heard and see in movies. You know, I'm the CEO now or I'm the senior manager now, but I used to be working in the mailroom, started from the bottom, now we're here, kind of thing, and that all sounds well and good. But what I'm really hearing you say is just because someone is really performing well in one environment, at one task, at one job does not always mean that you pick them up out of that environment or those duties and responsibilities and put them into another. That that's going to carry over, pull up from, let's say, department to department to department, or just expand their skill sets and capabilities and duties and responsibilities in a unique container and keep them there, just add more to their plate.

10:33 - Chase (Host) I think it's a little bit of both, and so what I was referring to earlier and this is a good baseball analogy is a player out of position or you take them out, you put them somewhere and they don't perform well, and then can you put put them back. You actually can't put them back either, because someone else is doing their job now yeah and they're not the top dog.

10:50 They're, they're another person that's. That's the top dog now. So now you got to play your position, so you have to train them to the new. Do new duties now as a, as a company that does training, and you know coaching and now therapy, um I would actually give.

11:04 Before I moved anybody, I would give them a, not a competency test, but I would give them a. It's called an inventory. What are they really good at? Like I, I can look at you like an aptitude test, yeah, like an aptitude. Can they do this job? That's your very first thing. Can they do the job before you move them? And if they can do the job, then you basically train them to do the new job. If they can't do the job, then you would expand their role in where they're at right. I'm saying a lot of people well, I don't want to work in the middle room all my life. Well, while you're at this company, you have to show us you have the aptitude to go to the next level, right, right, and then we'll move you up to the next level. We believe in you. We want you to do this. We're not going to tell you stuff like that, because it become. You become a. What's it called the best word for you?

11:44 - Speaker 3 (Host) become um bitter if you don't move, if you're not moving at the same pace.

11:49 - Chase (Host) Some people show up at a company and they're working there and they move on and become, you know uh, partners at, say, a law firm, uh, but some people don't. They stay working as a paralegal the entire time, like some people get their degrees in three years, some people get their degrees in six years. People move at a different pace because of what they're, let's say they're extrinsic. What's their locus of control? Right? Like what's happening outside.

12:12 Is that determining whether or not I'm going to be successful because of what I don't do, or do I want things just to happen to me to be successful? Most people I would venture to say that most people want things to happen to them, not that they make things happen.

12:24 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, yeah. This other kind of analogy in the workforce comes to mind, and that's you know, dress for the job that you want, you know, perform as if you are already that manager or shift leader or vice president or whatever in that role. Now is that? Would you recommend that?

12:42 - Chase (Host) should we do that so that we continue to move up the ladder, or are we then maybe dropping the ball on the job that we're supposed to be doing because we're trying to shoot for the next one. Yeah, I saw a TED Talk like that and I don't disagree with fake it until you make it Right. So, and that's probably not what you were saying, but yes loosely. Yes, yeah.

13:07 So I think that works for you to get the job, but you still have to perform. When you get the job, I think a person coming in and you're going to exemplify who you are in that particular position you are in now and then people who see you performing will want you. Now we have to be careful because not every leader sees you performing and not every manager or supervisor is going to recognize your performance and, even worse, that most managers that have a good person working for them they're not going want them to move. That's my best performer. I do not want them to move, uh, and I gave you an example um, I did a tour on saturday for this company and we were walking around and I said how do you do your um, uh, your employees of the month, employees of the years, and can they get them multiple years in a row?

14:03 Can they have multiple months in a row? Can they be the same person? They gotta go. This guy has been the same person for the last 18 months the same employee of the month yeah, and I said, well, that's great for where he's, where he's working at.

14:16 I said has any, has anybody else won? Because you have this other person won once and this other person won once. So so the last 20 months two other people have had that position. That's not going to feel good for the others it doesn't. And I said well, you know, at some point it's demoralizing to the rest of your staff that this person wins. I said I don't know what your metrics is, but when you're dealing with people and you want them to take that role, what are you doing to ensure that they're having the same opportunities as this person is to to be successful? And then he said well, he's been on that same floor the entire time.

14:55 - Rob (Guest) So he doesn't want to advance?

14:56 - Chase (Host) No, no, no, he doesn't. He's been on the floor doing the job. That's the job. He does Like he knows everything about that job and he hasn't done anything else. And I was like, oh, does like he knows everything about that job and he hasn't done anything else. And I was like, oh, that girl, that's interesting. I said so he knows everything about the position he's in, so he's not going to make any mistakes because he's doing the same thing all the time and he's being rewarded because he does the same thing all the time. He doesn't have to change anything because as long as he doesn't change anything, he wins, yeah, the award. But what are you? I said what other? What other I? What are the? I asked him. I said, well, so what are the things? Go into it. They're like well, being on time, like okay, the bare minimum job requirements.

15:32 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, he showed up. Killing it, killing it, killing it making it happen.

15:35 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and then he's a. He has to make a mistake. Come on, I was like, I was like uh, and I said okay. So I realized I wasn't going to get anywhere with him. I said okay, so when I talk to them next week because I have to meet them again when I talk to them next week, I gotta gotta kind of let them know. When I talk to them next week, I've got to kind of let them know that, okay, that's not the best approach.

16:08 It's easier for you as a manager because he's your top dog, but if he gets sick or he gets injured or something like that, then everybody else is going to be like oh, now you want me Because your people want you to lead, and you don't want to do that. You never want to manage expectations. What you want to do is encourage people to always push forward. How can they get to that job? Because otherwise it'll be like my smoke breaks 10 minutes longer now, or I'm going to walk outside and whatever those things you don't want them to do. They will start doing and it becomes infectious. And then it's like well, let him do all the work. Yeah, he can do all the work. All right. He's the number one guy because people get better if they don't have an opportunity or they leave so then, does it come down to a proper incentive?

16:54 - Rob (Guest) is incentive really the only way to get people to to level up and to self-lead before they ever become a leader of their department?

17:02 - Chase (Host) um, I would say it depends on the person. Some people like, uh, titles and structures. They like the. You're the. Let's say you want to be the manager of the floor. That would be something that some people would want, um, and some people would want to be. I want to be incentivized financially to do this, but you got to be careful with incentives because, uh, you know, one person's um incentive is another person's nightmare. That's not the way I wanted to say that, but basically, what motivates one doesn't motivate, doesn't motivate another, yeah.

17:35 That's a better way of saying it. And so, if you go with financial incentives, and where does it stop?

17:41 - Rob (Guest) It's also training them, conditioning them, right, like the only way to get more out of me or for me to have any more skin in the game. Your game, especially when I'm working with somebody else, right, is gotta give me more money. Yeah, and that's a lot of extra weight on the business owner because you got to keep not only producing the same level but now producing more because you can't grow. Yeah, if they don't grow, they're not going to grow unless you pay more.

18:05 - Chase (Host) Well, unless you're in California and they just raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour and you get the same employees. So, but look at it this way the military does a very good job of promoting people without paying them because they love it.

18:18 - Rob (Guest) Say that again.

18:18 - Chase (Host) They love what they do and they're given tasks and there's a reward for completing those tasks. And they're given tasks and there's a reward for completing those tasks. If you can somehow use that model, you know not the structure of it, but how do you encourage people to do things? That's what's best for the organization as opposed to what's doing best for the individual. And then the rewards and accolades come with that. Yeah, that's a yearly sale of the quarter, sale of the year, instructor of the year, those kind of things. Those things do work, but those are rewards. They're of things, those things do work, but those are rewards, they're not incentives. And some people use those rewards as incentives.

18:54 You know, do I get a day off? Do I get an extra pto day? Do I get a week pto? Uh, pay time off or do I get, you know, I don't know. It's something that you would work for, and if you can't do it, then you can. You can layer it right, you can go, okay. So there's say, there's 10 people in my office, okay, only three of them are going to be able to get the award. I got a chance. Right, that's the second place guy is gonna. It's gonna suck for them because they, like I, was that close, because usually one and two are good to go and number three is kind of way out there or never but that second person will be like I'm gonna try harder next time to get the award, yeah, but then, and then they're dejected.

19:24 The third person is just happy to be there, right? You ever see a long race when they're just like I'm not even going to try to catch that, I'm not even going to run that guy down, I'm just going to be back, I'm just going to fight for a number two. You see that NASCAR, you see that in a formula, wonder. And I would be like what? Why are we fighting for number two? Because you need to be the best you're going to be on that day. You're not running somebody else's race, and that's my mindset is that you're never running somebody else's race on that day, at that particular time. Your clock you're running against is your clock. The minute you start running somebody else's race, you're already lost Because you don't know what they're going to do. You have no idea.

20:01 - Rob (Guest) No, oh, that's for sure.

20:02 - Chase (Host) Yeah. No, you brought it up.

20:04 - Rob (Guest) Military For my audience, if you don't know Rob's former service, prior service, excuse me retired Navy SEAL, correct? So let's tap into that wisdom and those experiences a little bit. What do you think are two of the most important lessons you learned about leadership during your time in the Navy SEALs?

20:29 I learned two things good leadership and bad leadership. Friends, listen up. This is an intervention, a coffee intervention. We need to talk about your morning coffee, and that's because I think a lot of you are. Look, no shame here, but just you don't know any better If you're still chugging any old cup of Joe, it's time to level up.

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23:26 - Chase (Host) I learned a lot about bad leadership. I learned a lot about expectations. I learned a lot about delegation. I learned that you still, no matter what you do, you have to encourage your people to be successful. That's what inspiration comes from. Like you may not be doing a job as a leader, and I trained this now as, like you know, no one's no one's expecting you to be the expert as a leader, and I train this now as, like you know, no one's no one's expecting you to be the expert as a leader. They're expecting you to take care of them. Like I'm going to do the job.

23:51 If I'm a visionary of a company, I have my, my staff, and they're they're they're the strategy people. They're like this is how we're going to do it. Sorry, this is how supervisors your managers. They're the ones that resource the drivers, hire people, fire people, make sure the payments get done. That's what they do. So I'm sitting up there as a chief petty officer in the Navy and I'm like, okay, I'm going to resource this out to my LPO. I'm going to resource this out to the other people that have specific jobs. They're called collateral duties to get these things done. Now, I'd expect them to get this done in the right amount and they report back to me that it's done, am I going to follow up on it? That's not my job. It's the LPO's job to follow up on it, right? So if it's an officer, it's the same thing. I go to my chief and say I want these things done. The chief makes it happen. He's you don't right. But trust has to be verified. Follow up with you, check in on them. You follow what they're doing. You walk out there and you you do those things because you want to make sure that they know that you know that they do care about them. You have a conversation up to with them about not what's happening with whatever they're doing, but what's happening with them is personally. So you understand where your team's at, how they feel about what they're doing. You know how they feel about what they're doing. You know they're going to do a good job.

25:06 Let's say you know someone's kid's dying. You know you probably don't want them out there working on weapons and stuff at that particular time. So you have to be aware of that, cognizant of that. In business it's the same thing. You know some kid, some know 60 hours of work a week, is he going to be focused on that? Is he a good kid and I don't mean that like the negative thing I'm like but he's 25 and I'm 62. So you know it's like, hey, you know how's it going with the wife. What do you want to know for him? I want to know about you, you know, I know you're sad that you know that there's going to be some problems or you're expecting a time you can't focus on work.

25:48 - Rob (Guest) I can focus on work. You think you can? Yeah, you can't.

25:51 - Chase (Host) You're worried about the kid, you're worried about the wife. So you know you have to give people a leeway, to be appreciative of what you're trying to do for them and not hold it against them and not anybody else. Hold it against them as well, and not hold it against them and not anybody else. Hold it against them as well, because you're building loyalty, yeah, commitment, yeah, you're doing all those things and they may leave you. They may have been planning on leaving you, but that's not the point. They say were you doing what you're supposed to do as a leader? And if a person decides they're going to leave, your company can't stop them from leaving. Or you can delay their departure, but you can't stop them from leaving, like, if that were the case, people would still be in the military, right they?

26:30 - Speaker 3 (Host) wouldn't do four years and get out, they would be in forever.

26:33 - Chase (Host) If I could trick you or you know whatever, hold you against your will there would be. We would have a robust military, with people who didn't like being in the military.

26:40 - Rob (Guest) You Back in my day, they got pretty good at tricking those re-enlistment bonuses. That's the incentive right. Yeah, just say, here's $100,000.

26:49 - Chase (Host) Ooh, I can put it with it four more years. Yeah, it's an incentive to stay, but your loyalty, that's different. If you want to be patriotic, that's great, that's patriotism. But loyalty to your team I don't want to get out because I want my guys to go without me Okay, that's loyal. If it's the team, that's great. But I tell people, don't be mistaken about it, that bonus is to keep you there, but that's an incentive for you to stay. It's not a reward, it's an incentive for you to stay. It's the one thing that, between finding a job and having $100,000 in the bank $100,000, I can wait another four years, which I promise you, speaking from experience it ain't gonna be as much money as they say and it's gonna be quite a bit longer to get that money as well and taxed.

27:33 - Rob (Guest) Oh my god, yeah, you can tell you that my bonus. Yeah, yeah, years later, and like half yeah, half yeah it's almost like you forget about their royalties, or what they're calling this like oh, it's spread over six years, like what? I remember being like year three, yeah in and I, I finally got the last installment of my initial enlistment bonus and I was like, oh yeah oh yeah I forgot about it there's an extra like 3500 in my les.

28:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, that's yeah that's what it is, and you forget all about it like, well, maybe I'll do that.

28:17 - Rob (Guest) Four years you yeah, it's like I don't know. Direct leadership that, per your opinion, was poor leadership. How did you navigate? How did you stay on point on mission? And even you know, keep your morale and the morale up of your guys when under poor leadership.

28:35 - Chase (Host) Oh, that's easy. You talk shit about him, you just talk, talk mad shit about him. You know, my enemy is my enemy right. You're just talking, you know. You know you're, you're, uh, I remember, um, we were at SEAL Team 2 in the Arctic Circle. I knew, uh, newfoundland, newfoundland I don't know how you pronounce it it's in Canada. It's cold as shit up there, where this is.

29:01 before cell phones or cell phones were used in sat phones or briefcases we had back then and we were using um a uh uhf radios to transmit, um bouncing it off the atmosphere and getting it back yeah I worked in second for a little bit.

29:13 Yeah, yeah, so you know it's like unwind this and how far away is, and I'm going to bounce it off of here and do your math formulas. So, um, we were, um, we were out there and it was supposed to be very cold and we were supposed to experience extreme cold, you know, as in Canada, and I think we were going 60 clicks or 70 clicks or something like that, out in the desert, not desert, but out in the Henderland, where there are no houses or anything. It was just out there, it's called, it's been so so long. Um, we weren't ski or and we were doing the telemarketing with our 80 pound, 80 pound backpacks, right, because the snow is deep, so we telemark that's snowshoes, but that would have taken us as long. So we were skiing and you, basically the heel pops up when you, when you ski yeah, yeah, cross-country skiing, right, yeah, basically, but they're wider though okay they're

30:03 100, I think they're 105 is what we were using the the length of 105 centimeters, okay. So, uh, we're out there and it's like this guy's, he's a beast, a physical specimen, just you know, for him it's a workout, for us it's like where are we going? Why are we? Why are we doing this? What you know, all the questions of why do you know where we're going? We're going to go that way, and it's like he knows where he's going, but he doesn't know where he's going and he won't let us know. He doesn't know where he's going. Like I'm just going to do what I tell you to do.

30:32 It's like, well, that's not, that's not good enough, and you can't ring mutiny. You know you're going and you're sitting back there talking and a long line of guys there's 18 guys at that point in our team. So 18 guys spread out three or four feet apart. So that's like a long line or less than like 100 yards, and you're just in each other's tracks to make it easier for you. And then we pulled over underneath a bunch of trees and he says I think we got turned around when do you think that happened?

31:07 We we when do you think that?

31:09 happened? I've been following these tracks for a full day. When do you think that happened? This is what I'm saying to myself when do you think that happened? And we're sitting there on the top of our skis, like you know, exhausted. It's like we need to either. So you have to either stop and get clothed up right away, or you got to keep moving, right. So if you're the front guy, you're breaking trail and you got barely anything on because you're sweating so much. Then when you pull over, you step off the track and you had to put a jacket on and you got to get back in line. So now all this is freezing on. You got to, you got to keep moving the entire time and we stopped and we were just like all, just indifferent. So we need to do something because we're all going to get cold.

31:47 And he was like we're going to figure out where we're at first. It's like you know, we don't have time for this, right? So we're all going to get cold. So then I think somebody made the calls that we're just going to. You know what? We're just going to get dressed. We're going to put our winter stuff on, our big jackets on, so we don't fucking freeze out here.

32:00 But you know you're out there that the things that aren't moving get cold. So now everybody's feet are now cold. Now our feet are too cold to ski, man, because now your boots got all the icicles around them. You know, because you know vapor barriers. We weren't wearing those. So now we got to figure out a way to get everybody warm. And this guy's still trying to figure out where to you know where we're at we wind up cutting down a bunch of trees. They were like fuck it you know I think we're the one of the chiefs like fuck it, just cut the palm trees, uh, uh, pine trees, and then set them on fire, right in a fire, you know we're like yeah, yeah, set canada on fire.

32:34 - Rob (Guest) This is an arson. We gotta be careful how we yell that out here.

32:38 - Chase (Host) Yeah right so we, we, um, we build a bunch of fire and I didn't know at that time, I had no idea that those trees went up that quick. It's like a, you know, it's like a, um, yeah, they'll burn, they burn, they burn quick all that oil that's in them. And we, we basically set them on fire, heated up the area and then went down to the cat, went in their tents for the night and, just like this guy still doesn't know where the hell we're at, because at that point you got to wait till nighttime. Now, because you know, gps's were the big, uh, I don't know um, when you ran, but they had this, these big GPS, big yellow things we used to have.

33:07 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, like large handheld devices.

33:09 - Chase (Host) Yeah, handheld Right with bad batteries, I remember seeing them from my dad.

33:15 - Rob (Guest) He brought some home he was in the 101st Airborne, yeah, and he first got some new toys in and showed them to us. It's pretty badass what they can do, but it was like a big ass. It was like a console. Pluggers is what they're called.

33:26 - Chase (Host) They were huge and they were supposed to. You had to have all the satellites. I think at that time it was like three or four satellites. You had to get to get a general idea where you're at. But back then the maps or charts weren't on. They weren't done at the same time. Now it's not an issue the charts or the maps. Eight digit grade cord.

33:47 Yeah, and then you had to put that onto the, onto the map. And if it wasn't, if the map wasn't done with the GPS, and then you had to figure out if the I think it's like a whiskey 84 or something like I can't remember exactly what it was, but the map had to be dialed into the GPS to give you the eight digit grid to find out where you're at. Like, really, you don't know where we're at, and uh, so we went to bed that night. The next morning we got up, we, I think they looked at the stars and I had an idea. I don't know where we're at. Celestial navigation. They're like, okay, we're probably 50 clicks away from where we need to be. So we start off with 60 clicks, traveled the entire day on skis and we had 50 clicks. We had to go. We had to meet these canadian guys out in the middle of nowhere. We skied up on them in like a day and a half later.

34:28 - Rob (Guest) It's like two and a half days out there so the situation you know, such as that or, um, where, maybe in a situation where talking shit amongst the rest of the team might not get you where you need to be, but what does it do, in a sense of you know, through the lens of leadership well, I think there's always a ground truth with the troops, and then there's the real truth.

34:52 - Chase (Host) Well, I should say the real troops with the ground guys, and then there's your truth, like if you're the leader. There's your truth and there's their truth. Those things have to line up because they need to know your vision of what you want to have. And I think the biggest problem or the biggest thing I saw in the military and I did, you know, 25 years over and over and over again, these people were promoted. And I don't mean these people, but people were promoted that don't know that. And I know the Navy is trying to get around teaching leadership, but they teach how to manage people. They don't teach people how to inspire people. They don't teach people how to mentor or motivate a person. They go. This is what happens. This is how you do evaluations Very regimented. This is how people are promoted. It's like that's not true. You should promote the best person for the best job and if you're not doing that, we're not getting the best people. The best people are getting out because they feel that they're being stifled because this guy's made it. I can't believe that person made it, although you know it's their turn. It's like what do you mean? It's their turn Right.

35:45 There has to be some accountability when you promote people, otherwise it's not. If you're not promoting the right people in your organization, you're not. You're basically telling everybody else they're not worth it. And what do you have to do to become, you know, the teacher's pet, or you have to be the, you know the go-to boy or something. What is that? What is that? It's like I can do my job very well, I can excel among everybody else, I can do extra stuff, but am I going to be acknowledged, not rewarded? But am I going to be acknowledged for doing that, and will that show up in my evaluations?

36:15 - Rob (Guest) because doesn't that land more? I think for most people maybe I'm alone, but acknowledgement hits home so much more than reward. Yeah, it does, especially in the workplace.

36:26 - Chase (Host) Yeah, well, I think for any place and you know, if you're you, if you, if you're and I'm looking at the camera going if your wife tell them yeah, tell them yeah.

36:36 If your wife, if your wife goes out and gets her hair done just a minor change, a minor color change or highlight and then you don't acknowledge that she did that, you're going to feel the wrath. You're going to feel the wrath 're gonna feel the right you can get a haircut. She was like you had a nice haircut today. You're like, oh thanks, you don't think anything about it because it's not important to you. That's true. That's true, yeah, but she gets a. She goes out and gets her hair done. Oh, you guys gonna like this. They're talking about the at the hair salon. Oh, he's gonna love that. You get home and it's like do you notice anything different? She's gonna whip her head around and, yeah, talk to you in your face like what's wrong with a new shirt? When you want to go. No, no, did you notice?

37:09 anything. When they get to the point with did you notice anything? It's like you know, uh, you didn't acknowledge, and then you gotta now you gotta fight on your hands because you didn't take the time to recognize it. And I think that sometimes leaders tend to acknowledge, uh, their people. I'll tell you a quick story. I, I work with this cosmetics company. I work a lot of different types of company food service companies, technology companies and um, we work with a cosmetics company and I went in there and I thought, man, you know, it's cosmetics, right? This?

37:39 - Rob (Guest) is uh Calabasas, you know how to put on loam green pretty well, I'm sure yeah, I was like we're gonna, you hit the highlights.

37:49 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I know how to do that. I went out on my team and I was like, uh, I? I said, you know, I was talking to the girls. I said, uh, I don't know what to do. What I mean, what do they want to do, your cosmetics company? They're like, well, they want to work with you. And I'm like, yeah, but uh, I don't. And I was like I wasn't questioning why we were there. I was questioning, you know, the type of training we do is pretty extensive and that it's very intense. And so you know, we go there, we walk in the door and we meet this lady. She's a receptionist. She's probably at that time. She was probably in the late 60s at that time. She was probably in the late 60s and she was by far the nicest person I've ever met before in my life.

38:35 - Rob (Guest) The first person you meet at this company walking through the door she was so accommodating, just so nice, just overly friendly. As it should be.

38:42 - Chase (Host) Right. So I asked her some questions. I go wow, you're, how long have you been here, she. I asked her some questions like, oh, wow, you're, so how long you been here? She was I've been here for like 10 years. I love this company. It's the best company in the world. She had nothing but good things to say about it and they were going to take care of you. They're wonderful people and you're going to see you know, she gave me a list of people and I said, yeah, those are people we're going to see. They're great. They were like 30 minutes late for the meeting and they were like, oh sorry, we're in a meeting like you couldn't call down and tell this lady, who was real nice to us, that you're going to be 30 minutes late. So we sat out there and I wasn't upset with them. I was like, yeah, it's fine no issues.

39:19 But I'm like, okay, our timeline was for us because you know, people recognize your time, they value your time. So now we're going to be in LA traffic going back across, going back, going back down to la to go back to san diego, and I think we're just gonna have to. I told my team, I said we're gonna have to make some changes because we're not going to be out of here by four o'clock. We're gonna get here like five. That's gonna be right in the middle of traffic. So let's look for a restaurant where we're going to debrief at the restaurant, because we should have this should have been a 30 minute meeting, and now it's going to be an hour and a half because we hadn't gotten in there yet. This time we're not in there yet. But I go upstairs, we go up to the room and they're like what can you sell us and I?

40:08 go want to offer us and I said well, I don't know what you want. That's usually not the way I was. I was honest. I said that's not usually how we do. This is, people know we do leadership training before you come in here and they go what kind of products you have? And I go well, they're specific to the, to what you want to do as a program.

40:24 We write programs for the clients. It depends on what the clients want. And then we can go okay, this is a program that'll fit your needs right, and then we basically make adjustments to the program based on what your needs are. If you have communication problems, it'll be high in communication. If it's it's uh, if it's um loyalty, we'll work on that. If it's across a functional team, so we'll work on that. But to say this is a program that fits for you, it may not be. The program fits for you and you will not be satisfied. So we would have this conversation this is me talking to to their board, it's like. So we would have to know from you what your problems are and then we would ask questions and then, while we're at the table because my team is here we can kind of tell you what would work for you?

41:04 but to say it's pretty great yeah, but to say that, hey, what do you have? And I said we have a lot of products, but I don't want to have to go through all the products. And you go, no, no, no, because then what's going to happen is you're going to be like what do they have that we want? So I don't know what you want. But I said, let me, let me tell you this, this isn't a meeting. And I said I would work with her any day of the week, whatever she wanted, and she's the reason why we're still here. Cause I would have left.

41:34 Wow, I said. I said, cause she's a reason why you're here. I said I'm sure that she's. She's like that with everybody. And they were like, oh, she's great. And I go, yeah, but nobody else is Cause they were kind of rude. I said but nobody else is, so I don't know what you want us to work on. I said you want us to work on who she is. You can ask her because she's fantastic. They're like, well, she loves it. She would be here 24-7. And I said, but what about everybody else?

42:02 - Rob (Guest) It's a big, it's a big, yeah, Cross the road.

42:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah, we wound up working with him and um please tell me the front desk lady got promoted.

42:15 - Rob (Guest) No, I don't know. She got incorporated in some capacity.

42:18 - Chase (Host) We did the program with them. It was a three day program out in the middle of nowhere. It was great. It's a really good program. They had a great staff. They learned a lot. They did a great staff, they learned a lot. They did some things that we thought were inappropriate. Um, we don't put a lot, we don't have alcohol at our events and the ceo brought alcohol. It's like because why? I thought I could just have a couple glasses you have like this is in front of the entire class. I said, uh hey, we went to you guys stuff and we found this bottle. He's like well, that's my bottle.

42:44 It's like well don't you want to share with everybody that's here, because these are all your people, they're all going through the same thing. Because my programs are built around trust, right, and if you're going to trust us to help you, then you have to really trust us to help you. I'm not like a bad person, but I can't. If they know, if we know they know right. So if they think that you're not in it for a hundred percent, then they know you're not in it for a hundred percent. So we said, okay, we're going to do this. And we some people came up to me afterwards. He goes that's the best thing you could ever done to him. He does not like working with us and, uh, I I'm not. I'm like, well, that's what we would normally do. It's to him in front of everybody. And I said, well, he's a leader, right, and that's the thing about being humble is that you need to be humble in front of your people, accepting their faults and changes, just not just telling people what to do. So we did our program with him. It was successful. It lasted two, two and a half days.

43:49 We left, came back and then he was in new york for another meeting, met him one of my other clients because I haven't heard from rob and uh. And then my my uh he's kind of a mentor to me. He goes how come you haven't called this guy back yet? I said I. I said I said I'm not selling him anything. It said, if he wants me to, he wanted us to work with him.

44:03 He should have told me I don't do that, I don't like, oh hey, let me call you up on the phone and talk to you about this is what we did for you last year, we'll do this year. So that's not how it works, because I'm not begging you for your work. I'm there to help you because my process is to help people and I can't ask people. That's the way it works. I can't beg for you to give me a job to work for you, and my number one reason is to help you. I'm not asking. I'm working. I'm. I'm now doing this for profit, and I don't ever want to do a profit, even though I like making money, yeah, so we don't.

44:32 - Rob (Guest) You can't really chip away at somebody to be like ask me for help, ask me for help, yeah, ask me. It doesn't really work that way, right you?

44:39 - Chase (Host) gotta, you gotta want to do it it's not real help and we said give us an evaluation. If we did something wrong, let us know so we can fix it. Yeah, yeah, right, it may not be for you, but it'll be for the next line, but we do evaluations all the time, I think it's. I think the hardest thing for me to do when I started this particular company was to get feedback right. It's scary.

44:59 - Rob (Guest) What's a good way to go about getting feedback, as a leader, from your peers and subordinates? Ask Is it just hey, how am, am I doing, or what have you found to be kind of? The best, best ways to ask for feedback that you can really receive in the way that it's meant and then, therefore, the whole team wins and you can grow well, you have to build a team where they know you're receptive to it what does that look like?

45:26 - Chase (Host) um, it's a I was talking earlier about this is a level one, level two, level three relationship. So your level one relationship, or can, where you communicate with people, would be trade, transactional, right. It's like you go to a restaurant, you order a menu, you order something from the menu. You don't tell the waiter that you know, um, you own the business, and you know, or waitress, that you own the business, you've been there for five years and that you, you, you know, you love hot chocolate and so on and so forth, and they don't go. Yeah, you know my wife's pregnant and I'm going to have four kids and this job is the only job I've had for the last five years and I want to be a manager of a company, but I haven't put all my eggs in one basket because I haven't finished school. That doesn'tional.

46:06 A level two relationship would be kind of like what we're doing. We're sharing this stuff about ourselves, bits of information, and we're learning to like each other and understanding who each one another is, and I know I'll know a lot more about you in 10 minutes than I would if I never said anything to you, and then that way I can make kind of a judgment call of what you do. You know, okay, you know, okay. You know now, I'm receptive to criticism. Or you know, well, I'd like to be, I like accolades, or I like this, right, we know that because it's level two. A level three would be like a marriage, right, or you share everything, but there's also um the emotions that come with it. Level two, you have some of it, but level three, you definitely have a lot of emotion, but you also have history too, so you can formulate you can, formulate, you can formulate decisions based on the history of the person and you don't actually have to ask him to know.

46:51 So a level two relationship with your employees, on your people, on your staff, will allow them to be able to talk to you because they know how you're not how you're going to respond to it, but are you receptive to it. You can't go tell me what's wrong and you're standing there with your hands on your hip and no one's going to tell you anything. Yeah, unless you Unless you got an alpha in there, right or a person who just doesn't care. But those betas that aren't going to say anything to you at all, they'll just kind of you know whatever he said.

47:14 - Rob (Guest) That's such a good point. I'm just kind of thinking back on, you know, being a small business owner myself, being an entrepreneur now for eight years, going on nine, a small business owner in terms of, quite literally, where we are now going on year four, two different business models, and I realized over the last couple of years I have applied the same, if not a very similar, method of asking for feedback on how am I doing as a leader, how is the environment, how would the duties, responsibilities Like, how's the culture basically? And I want brutal honesty and I've realized that I don't always get the same level, like that marriage level feedback, even though that I present in that way, or I'm choosing to, I'm trying to show up in that way and I'm asking it in that way. You know that's, that's very one-sided, right, and so I I don't get the same brutal, honest feedback that i'm'm looking for because of that one sidedness.

48:10 You know where, if you have history, you know this is with someone maybe that's been working for me for four months compared to two years I can ask the same question and I do get that yeah, chase, like this, this sucks, or this is amazing, or you're too much of this or not enough of that, or he, she, this, whatever. And again I'm not showing up any differently, I'm asking the same questions, just kind of my, I guess, leadership style. But this is good live feedback for me and kind of really recognizing both people have to be kind of in it at that same level to get that same feedback Right.

48:43 - Chase (Host) Cause they cause. They think that their jobs are on the line.

48:45 - Rob (Guest) Right, right, I say the wrong thing.

48:47 - Chase (Host) No, I didn't like to be. You know I should never, have said that, and the more honest you are with people, the more they're going to be honest with you. They know that I can, but you don't want to. But if you hire the right people, you don't have to worry about them being malicious just to be malicious. You know I'm not going to get a group answer that's so well said.

49:10 - Rob (Guest) Okay, walk us through why. Why can we not always rely on becoming a better leader if asking for feedback or in in a group dynamic versus one-on-one?

49:24 - Chase (Host) because even though it's the same people, people, followers, right, you've been in me, you're in the military, you know that. You let me iterate what he just said. Let me second that it's. It's like okay. So we're saying the same thing over and over again, so you give a really good statement. They're receptive to it. That leaders are receptive to it.

49:40 - Rob (Guest) You've been in the military, you know that yeah, how many after action reviews you just get like it's the same thing.

49:44 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's great, it's awesome. Let me second that. I just want to reiterate what he said. Yeah, like okay. So are you thinking for yourself, or what did you see? That's different? We weren't even, we weren't even the same platoon attacking the same target. But obviously you have the same answers as me. So I don't think the group, the group thing, doesn't do that. They've done some, some studies where, um, even though you know that pin's longer than all the other ones, because everybody else said that pin was shorter, now you say it's shorter because you don't want to deviate.

50:12 No, you don't want to deviate, unless you get somebody who's not an alpha, you get somebody who's not a beta. I think it's called, I guess what. I'd ask a person that basically they don't care what other people think they're going to say what's on their mind and they're not necessarily looking for leadership, but they are leaders.

50:34 - Rob (Guest) But they're not like an alpha would be a person. I believe those would be Aries yeah. Yeah, but you're looking at it.

50:41 - Chase (Host) They're kind of like they'll tell you the truth because it's the truth as opposed to there's something being behind it, Right, and then they're also your top performers. They perform because they want to be top performers. They have their own self-efficacy, they're driven by not by greed or anything. They're just like I got to get this done, because it's important to me to get this done, I want to get this done. I don't care all the awards, I don't care about all this, I want to get this done.

51:03 Me a question yeah, you did this wrong. You did this wrong, but not in a mean sort of way. But other people will be like you know, what did they say? Does anybody say something? Why did I do something wrong? So they won't do it. So it's very. If you have that level two relationship with them, then they'll probably tell you probably not right away, but if it depends on how you build that in right, absolutely how you build it in it's, it's leadership isn't something you do yesterday you did, did it the day before you did it. It's all the foundation. When you first hire them, the conversation, when you first have with them, you can do. I'm an open book. I tell people, I told a group last weekend. I said I got how many of you guys got open door policies? We all got open door policies Cause you're all you know the thing later have an open door policy. I said that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard before in my life. Why? Because you have work to do. They have work to do.

51:49 - Rob (Guest) Thank God, somebody said it. I hate the open door policy. On paper it sounds and looks good right.

51:54 - Chase (Host) Oh, it's great, it's fantastic.

51:55 - Rob (Guest) How is anybody ever going to get shit done?

51:57 - Chase (Host) 90% of what you do. 90% of what you do it's because somebody above you passed it down to you and, as an 90% of what you do is to keep the company running, 10% that's left over you pass to other people. That becomes their 90%. So if they're coming into your office, they're not messing with their 10%. You're going to give them. The 90% that you're doing is what they're taking away from and you can't run the company.

52:20 - Rob (Guest) One of the best things I did here. So in this studio I also kind of use it as my office a lot of times. On the other side One of the best things I ever did. Yeah, auto locking door. Yeah, you can't just come in and out, nobody can. I'm talking like you know guests, team members, the mailman, right, you know, just like I mean. That's a whole nother tangent.

52:39 - Chase (Host) Everybody wants to talk to you, cutting off distractions yeah, that's what it is, because you have things you have to get done, right? I'm the same way. My uh, uh, carrie, who's runs um a lot of my stuff. It's like you got to do something yourself. I'm like, what do you want me to do? It's like it's too many emails. I'm like, okay, what's the solution? It isn't me right. These are emails that come to me, emails coming to her, emails coming to different people, and I said, you know, like, let's sit down and go over what we need to do, because we have a lot of. We have a social media person we're getting now and it's like, well, I'm like, what do you want to do with her? If she wants to do the social media stuff, then let her do the social media stuff. I don't want to have to follow up on her with social media.

53:18 - Rob (Guest) She's like 20 years old and I think that that's all she does is social media.

53:25 - Chase (Host) So let her do the social media. If she has a question, she'll contact you or contact me. That's just set up a way of doing that, because if we don't do that, then we're like second guessing her and she's like, well, they don't give me autonomy, and so on and so forth.

53:38 - Rob (Guest) You're never going to break through the next level of trust, then she's never going to break the level of trust.

53:42 - Chase (Host) But you guys are my parents and bad, bad, bad and it's like let's just figure it all out and then let her do it. Just let her do it If she makes mistakes. Maybe she's not the right person, but she knew a lot more about us. She knew a lot more about social media at the table than you and I did. Yeah, she knew the metrics, she knew everything. She was like I can't, you guys don't know what this is Like. We're looking at each other. Like that's why you're here.

54:04 She's eating and talking to us. Like you know we're stupid. I mean she wasn't, but she was just eating and talking and about you know what social media is and everything, and then it's easy for her. Oh yeah, yeah, it's like breathing, yeah, I was like I was looking at her, like what, what are you saying? It's a good you got the job? I don't know.

54:23 - Rob (Guest) You said the word TikTok yeah that's how did I get the job.

54:28 - Speaker 3 (Host) You use TikTok in a sentence more times than anybody else. That's like OK, yeah.

54:33 - Rob (Guest) Speaking of, you know age. I think this is an important area when we look at leadership, whereas on a lot of people's minds, especially younger people, no-transcript our mission or objectives for the team, the job, whatever, and if you get the same, like yes, like what they said, or just like if you get a lot of agreement, I believe that should also be a great sign of my leadership style. Isn't working because I don't have enough or any people coming to me with anything different.

55:15 - Chase (Host) Right, that's correct. That is absolutely correct. They basically siloed everything.

55:20 - Rob (Guest) It's not them, that's me which, again, ultimately, at the end of the day, leadership is all you.

55:24 - Chase (Host) What's your vision? Right, right, there, it's your. You know I tell my client I don. There, it's your. You know I tell my client I don't know my client. Tell my, my group. I said it's my vision of what I want to happen. But the direction we go on is dependent on you guys. Right, if you want to go after this client like a large, like I'm going to be in, I'm leaving.

55:39 After I leave here, I'm going to go over to europe and they're like well, how are we going to get this client? I go, uh, already got the client. It's what we can sell them is what we got to do. Can we sell this product, these events and products to these, this client? And they were like, well, how are we going to do that? I go, I don't know, how are we going to do that? I'm doing my part. I said, but I'll do everything I can do. And they said, well, here's some things we want you to do while you're there. It's like, okay, I can do that.

56:03 The vision is to do xyz with. What are you guys going to do to make it happen? They're like we can do these things. I say, perfect, so that's the way it works. So your vision. They strategize strategy sessions and then they resource it out to people that can get it done. Because if we did this as leaders, it's too much. It's like being on the battlefield as a battlefield commander at 30,000 feet in the plane and then skydiving out of the plane and jumping into a tank or a jeep and go let's go forward over here, and then being the number one man breaching the door, going in the room and then, you know, handcuffing everybody.

56:36 - Rob (Guest) And now you know, now I'm gonna do the interrogation no I mean, it's another age old kind of cliche about leadership is uh and this is something that you know, I've even reminded myself more of over the years is, just because you can do everything doesn't mean that you should. Yes, exactly, and more often than not, that's where I've gotten out of my own way, that's where I've removed a lot of bottlenecks in my businesses over the years. Is I I'll detach? Look at everything and the more of me that I see in every role. I know that I'm wrong.

57:06 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah I'm not meant to do everything. Yeah, because I can.

57:10 - Rob (Guest) And maybe you know I teach certain capacities of everything. If I am collectively in more roles in my business, then I'm fucking up.

57:18 - Chase (Host) You know, what's funny about that is um, uh, somebody you said a second ago um, I think I remember this about the roles.

57:32 - Rob (Guest) Just because you can do everything doesn't mean you should.

57:36 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I lost it. It was something specific.

57:38 - Rob (Guest) I said that was beautiful what you said, and I thought, okay, yeah, that means X, y, z, and now it's, oh, the feedback, so collectively, if I'm getting the same feedback or no variance whatsoever, then that should be a good sign for me as a leader.

57:53 - Chase (Host) Oh yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not the right environment. It's not the right environment you have no depth to these levels.

57:56 Well, you cause. You hired people that that do what you want them to do. You've hired people that are just like you, and if you hire people just like you, you're not going to give the. You know that way you get the actions out of it and you allow people to create things and let them fail. Right, oh, that's what I want to say. Because you're a positive outgoing, you know, an entrepreneur, we tend to do this one thing that most people can't do and that's continue to fill. When that glass of responsibilities and delegation goes away, we'd like, oh, I got more room to do something else.

58:34 Yeah, we keep filling up. We're never we're never completing what we're doing. We're always moving to the next level, always, man, we have to say ever forward, right, we're always what's the next thing for us? It's always going to be what's the next thing for us, and I think that that is good, but we need to delegate some things out. Once we establish, this is the benchmark of what we're going to do, or let's just say more of the anchor, or where we start from.

58:54 We need to pass that off to other people and give them responsibility to other folks.

59:00 - Rob (Guest) Yeah. Well said and thank you for that feedback. Yeah, you know. Speaking of age, going back to that statement, what advice would you give to young people? Let's say you know you're out of high school or college, you know your your first job kind of thing, or late teens, early 20s? What advice would you give to young people who aspire to be leaders but feel like others will not or do not respect them due to their age or perceived inexperience?

59:24 - Chase (Host) That's a really good question and I think people should stand on who they are. Um, you, typically a young person is going to come into it with, uh, the understanding that I'm not getting these people listen to me because I'm young, and it may not be that. It may be they're um, they're just not qualified right. They're not seeing it like I have a 34 year old, that I mean she's a female and she's like you know, because, because I don't have the right equipment, guys don't listen to me. And I said why do you say that? Because they just don't listen to me. I said what do you mean? They don't listen, they don't do what you say.

01:00:03 She goes yeah. I said that's funny because every person that I know that knows you. It says you need to do what she tells you to do. She's's gonna get in your ass. I said so I don't know your perception of what's actually happening, because they don't listen. I go no, they listen, they talk about it all the time. I go my son worked for her and he's like, yeah, she's so hard, dad, just she's so hard. She wants things done a certain way. And I think I go yeah, she does. That's what I love about her.

01:00:29 - Rob (Guest) Well, if it's the right way yeah, it's her way, yeah which is which is the right way for what we're doing.

01:00:35 - Chase (Host) She goes I put a lot of time and effort into it. If I can't do it right, I'm not going to do it at all. That's her mindset. So I'm going to do it the best of my ability. And I was trying to tell her that not everybody looks at it like that. They're Young people come out and they were like I'll try it and if I don't like it I'll do something else.

01:00:52 She's like you need to do it to your best of ability and if you can't do it, then you can stop it, but ask for help before you stop. Young people have a lack of confidence of what their abilities are and it's within their own minds of whether they think people are determining whether or not they can do it or not. That's what I believe it leave. It's just that that's not necessarily true. You know I work for a younger person. You know if they, if they know what they're talking about and know what they're doing and they need some guidance from me. But the minute they go, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, oh okay, all right, then I'm going to sit over here and do what I'm supposed to do. And then you will never get advice from me, ever again yeah, I think they were looking at splitting hairs over.

01:01:31 - Rob (Guest) am I after good leadership or am I after experience?

01:01:35 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you can hire a younger person to do it if they have the experience behind it.

01:01:40 - Rob (Guest) But I'm saying, a younger person, I believe, can also have really strong, positive, inherent leadership qualities, despite lack of experience.

01:01:51 - Chase (Host) I think leaders are born.

01:01:52 - Rob (Guest) Yeah.

01:01:53 - Chase (Host) I think it's harder to make them though. Why is yeah, I think it's harder to make them, though.

01:01:55 - Rob (Guest) Why is that?

01:01:55 - Chase (Host) I think it's harder to make it because you can't teach empathy, right. You can't teach humility. You can advise people on it. But to have a person that's humble, sometimes they just can't get there right, especially if they're young, like a Kobe Bryant, right? What was his? How long did he play in the NBA? Sometimes they just can't get there, right they, especially if they're young, like a like a kobe bryant, right? What was his? How long did he play in the nba before? I mean not before he died, but you know, before he became humbled in the nba, right? Or? Um, what's the other guy's name? I can't think.

01:02:25 I don't follow basketball, so the players are because of their attitudes more than anything else I'm not a I'm not a basketball guy so I only know, because he died, yeah, but do you know, there's that arrogance that goes along with it. Well, he's the best player.

01:02:35 - Rob (Guest) Well, jordan, I mean, I know, yeah I'm not a basketball guy, but I know there's a lot of talk about jordan. You're getting hard to get along with certain teammates and like that arrogance, that perceived arrogance, but it's really just. I mean, the true champion's mindset is like I if I demand excellence of myself right, and I am leading at this at this level, then you know, god damn it. Everybody else should be too.

01:02:55 - Chase (Host) Right, cause they're all on the same mission, same team. Yeah, exactly. But a lot of young people given the same opportunity to be like I'm the best, you should do what I'm doing. Well, how do I do that? Well, I want you to mirror what I'm doing to be better, right. So if best company is that you're like you were saying earlier, if everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing, then you're not a good leader, right. But if everybody's doing what you're saying, what your principles behind getting things done, then you are a good leader, because then your principles are out there, your vision is being seen, just not the way you would do it. No-transcript, very good at what they do.

01:03:43 - Rob (Guest) I can't do seals.

01:03:44 - Chase (Host) Right. I can't. I can't do industrial psychology Right, but I got a guy that's that's unbelievable, and I listened to him, sometimes like well, you bore me. But I think what you're saying is absolutely correct. I don't he bores me. I mean, that is something I don't want to have a conversation about, because it's so like. You know, metric debase he's fantastic at it, people love it. It's just not something I would want to do. You know that sounds great. Then over there, do that.

01:04:17 - Rob (Guest) So then, would you say, the foundation of a good leader, maybe, if we are a leader right now, listening, and we feel like we're struggling in our entity, in our workplace, in our home, whatever is, maybe we should shift from focusing on showing or telling everyone how to do things to a philosophy of the way this space should feel, should look, should operate, kind of shifting from SOP to core values.

01:04:40 - Chase (Host) Right, it is core values, but you need to have a commander's intent. What do you want them to do, Like at your organization? Here, what's your commander's intent? I'm not asking him, but you need to have a commander's intent and people would follow that. It would empower people to make the right decisions and then you have your vision right Of what you want to have happen. So your commander's intent is what you want them to do and your vision is how you're going to not how you're going to do it, but how people. If I were to explain to people what I did, this was my vision for the company.

01:05:07 - Rob (Guest) But explaining vision is kind of tricky, it is. So how then, as a leader, can we effectively convey our vision to our peers and subordinates so that they pick up and run with it?

01:05:22 - Chase (Host) That's very simple. I have a level two relationship with them. Yeah, if you have a level one relationship, you're like hey, we're going to do this ever forward, like okay, whatever. Man.

01:05:33 - Rob (Guest) Cool, we got a catchphrase. All right, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

01:05:35 - Chase (Host) Okay cool and they don't know what that means. Yeah.

01:05:37 But, your commander says like this is what I mean by ever forward. You know, my grandfather, or my father, said this is what's going on in his life and this is what it means to me, and everything they do will be based on that. That would be them marrying your values of what you want the company to do and then going forward with your commander's intent. And I want to be a successful company that has, you know, guests every two weeks, and so on and so forth. I have a million followers. That would be huge. How do we get there? And they will always go back to whatever your vision was and you can strategize that your sessions with them.

01:06:10 So, okay, this is what we're going to do for this quarter. Second quarter, third, we're going to revisit everything in third quarter. We can go right to the end of the second quarter and then see how we're doing on that. But someone's got to track it all. I think that most companies and this is really big for entrepreneurs is you come up with your January plan for 2025. You're like, oh, this is what we're going to do, do it's gonna make it happen. We're gonna do this and then, by march or april, if you're lucky, if you're lucky, they haven't implemented anything.

01:06:37 Okay, we'll get back to that later. And then you're still stuck in week two or three.

01:06:41 - Rob (Guest) We have implemented your plan and you're already 15 weeks into the year I think it's something like 80 of all new year's resolutions have died completely by 12 weeks into every new year. That might have died completely by 12 weeks into every new year. It might've been a stat I heard around just like particularly to you know, like a weight loss goal or something, but I think I think it across the spread is pretty common.

01:07:02 - Chase (Host) Well, the worst thing to do is go to the gym within the first two weeks after the new year.

01:07:05 Get away for all those people to get all those memberships bought in January you know, and trying to, you know, and trying to, and then they spend the rest of your trying to cancel them. But for business, it's the same thing. You have your, you have your, your review of what you're going to do. We got this great plan and this is what we're going to do, and we're going to make all this money, because they always have these conventions from january to march. This is what we're going to do. We're going to make everything happen. It's going to be great, and then some second quarter like oh, we haven't got started on that yet.

01:07:31 Third quarter was like well, we times got away from us. And fourth quarter okay, we're gonna redo this for next year.

01:07:38 - Rob (Guest) Copy who's been following?

01:07:41 - Chase (Host) what we're doing. What are the metrics involved with with, uh, achieving our goal? I work with the company went to, we went to event and I was like, how do you measure the success of the of your sales teams? They're like, well, this is what we do. And if they're not performing, this is what we do. And I was like, well, if a person I said so, this team always hits their goal by third quarter, they're like, yeah, and what happens in fourth quarter? So we don't know. They don't perform in fourth quarter.

01:08:19 So, but your, your, your, your program, that's like your, your little program tracks all this. And they're like, yeah, why don't we? What? Why is why is fourth quarter problem? And they said we don't know yet we haven't talked to them. This is like years they haven't talked to them. It's the same thing every year. They do the same thing. They're like, and then I found out it's one guy, there's one guy on this, like 20 person sales teams that gets all the goals for the year. And I said so, uh, why, uh, why aren't you teaching the other sales teams to do what they're doing? And that's when I found out, well, there's only one guy over there doing all that. I'm saying what about everybody else.

01:08:50 Well, we only get the metrics for the team, we only get the metrics for the individual. What it's like? You've got all this stuff and you do the. They're like, yeah, but it's not a problem right now. Like, well, it's probably not a problem, but no one else is going to be working. If he leaves. Sales is sales is like. They're like the lions of any company, right? Everybody else's lamb that everybody worked. The salesman should have it. So if your sales team or your sales team guy leaves, then your sales are going to collapse and that you probably should have something instituted where either he shares how he does this relationships or, um, you fire all those other people and just have him. I said I'm not telling you what to do, but I'm saying that you need to go around and examine what each person's doing, as opposed to just as one person.

01:09:35 Because I said the other thing is that you're not challenging him, right? I say he's done by third quarter, which means he's really done in second quarter Probably.

01:09:44 - Rob (Guest) Yeah.

01:09:44 - Chase (Host) Yeah. So I don't know what his dollar amount is he's supposed to get, or anything else. I'm just looking at the same thing, you're looking at going and I'm an outsider, or anything else. I'm just looking at the same thing, you're looking at going and I'm an outsider. I'm like, well, it sounds like he needs either to share what he's doing with other people or you need to learn what his model is, what he's doing with all these other people, and share this with all this, because they were a worldwide company. They were a global company and they were complaining that they weren't reading all their goals at all. The locations, like what is Like it was obvious that he was ahead of everybody else, or that team was ahead of everybody Cause it went by regions. This region was like way of everybody else and I said what does that person do? And I went up and saw their office in Massachusetts and I was like, well, no one does anything. He's the only one that's doing anything. He's like I got it and then he spreads to work out to everybody else.

01:10:34 And I that's a problematic. You said you know, maybe need to let all the other people go on the team. Well, it had to be the extreme thing, but they're not producing anything right they're doing. If you made him a department head, would he be as successful?

01:10:42 - Rob (Guest) right, probably not well as a leader, and definitely most likely. Uh, there's gonna come a day where you need to have that hard conversation. You got to let somebody go. You got to have that hard conversation. You got to let somebody go. You got to have, just you know, a hard performance review. Then maybe it's just a difficult conversation, but maybe it does result in letting people go as a good leader. How do we have those hard conversations and how do we know when to cut the cord?

01:11:07 - Chase (Host) Well, you know, in this day and age, hr does that. It's like we're going to let him go. Hr get his stuff together. He's done. I don't think a lot of leaders actually go down and talk to people before they let him go Do you think, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

01:11:20 I think it's a bad thing because they work for you. You hired them. But then again the example was a client the other day they're like we can't find good people. Are you looking? Hr does that. And I said my second question was does HR know what you're looking for? And so usually when I go to a conference we have communication. There's a part of it where I go back and forth with them. I said, look, if I ask you a question and you don't have the answer, just know that another question is going to come Right. So if you're just telling me what I want to hear, I'm going to keep asking questions. And by the time I get the fifth question, you're going to be like is he ever going to stop?

01:11:57 - Rob (Guest) Also, it means we don't have a level two relationship.

01:11:59 - Chase (Host) Right, right, yeah because I'm like I don't know. I don't know these things and you're saying you don't know, Then I'll offer a solution. So have you ever tried going to a place that has mechanics, or you have a place that what do you? Where do you need people to work at? Where are those people found? As a leader, are you looking for those people? Are you waiting for them to find them on LinkedIn? And then he says I.

01:12:24 This guy said well, we're looking on. Indeed, and I started laughing. I go for an employee. I go that's great, but you're not getting the employees you want. So you know, there's other options.

01:12:38 I said you know, part of being leadership is that you need to get out of the office and then go around and talk to the people. This is for the warehouse workers. I said no one has somebody in the warehouse where their friends hang out that they have free will. They want to work for the company and then you go out and talk to them. There's nothing wrong with you going to a job corps or this is for that particular company or going to a job corps someplace and find out where people are working. If you want manual labor, where are those people located? Some of them are still in high school. Some of them are at trade schools. What do you want? What are you looking to get? If to get, if you wait for somebody else to do it, you're not going to ever get the people that you're looking for, and if you're not telling them what you want, you know you're never going to get them?

01:13:17 and and, by the way, do you guys do? Do you do not placement tests, but do you do inventories on people you hire? I would just hire whoever wants to work here. I'm like, well, that's why you have a high turnover rate, because people don't understand the job they're getting into. So these are, these are simple things, and I'm sitting there, you know, I'm usually sitting there going, okay, this is pretty simple. Why? Why don't they think about it? Because they're they're basically supervisors right they're not leaders.

01:13:44 Yeah, because if the leader, if you're, if you're, if you're a coach on a football team or any, any sports team and you want the best quarterback, you're gonna go. Or you're gonna send somebody to scout to want the best quarterback, you're going to go, or you're going to send somebody to scout to find the best player, right, no matter what you do, right, girls, baseball, basketball, soccer, track, whatever it is, kids, sports you're going to go and you're going to find the kid that you want on your team. And I think a lot of leaders don't do that. They like wherever, whoever hr hires is fine, they go through. The hr does that for us.

01:14:14 So when you fire somebody, you don't know who's hired and who's fired. The large company probably. That's not a good thing, but what are you setting up as a type of people you want to work for you, right? If you are a family-owned company and that family-owned company has, uh, has a family type, a community, not a community, um, an environment, then less like once you get hired, you're less likely to be fired by them if you were. I work with a fortune 500 company, um, a hedge fund guy in um and new york and uh, these are all his senior executive guys and he would not fire those guys because they went to the same school. Yeah, no matter how much they screwed up, because we all went to the same school. We've known each other for years.

01:15:01 We've got all that history yeah, well, either that, or they worship the ground he walks on. He likes having that around him and you have that as well. Like I just won't give them as much. It's like but but okay, you got a lot of money, but I don't understand what you're trying to do, because you, you want this loyal group around you and you want this professional group around you, but then you have a person that's just there to you know, tell you how great you are one of the worst mistakes I've made over the years as a business owner is keeping someone on board with me just because we have history.

01:15:39 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I have banging my head up against the wall, having the same issues, the same problems, the same bullshit, the same excuses, and it all boils down to my. You know, I feel. I feel bad, but level three relationship.

01:15:53 - Chase (Host) We've been together for years. Level three, yeah, hard to get rid of people when they get to level three. I'm not saying you should hold people back, but I have one of those. I can't get rid of him. I like him, I think he's a great guy, but he violated one of our policies. But one of our clients loves him. So it's like you violated, I love you, but you violate one of the policies and I can't. We're restricted to what we can do to him. I mean on that particular contract all the other contracts he's not part of, but that particular thing. And I understand his point that he feels he's more valuable than he's valuable to the company and I think he is. Then he's valuable to the company and I think he is. But when you cross the relationship bounds between us and our client, that becomes an issue. You can't have that relationship with the client. That's a different game, right? What are you trying to do? Why I offered them something that you're not offering. You know? Huh, and what would that be? Please enlighten me.

01:16:54 On what planet and what phone call were you wrong with? You had that conversation with them outside of what we hired you for, and when did that happen? Well, they asked what you mean.

01:17:04 - Rob (Guest) That that just came up in conversation, that, uh, you do this also and you know but that's that brings up another unique point, kind of getting towards the end of one other question after this, but are actually to. That also, I think, is another area that we should lean into as leaders. When we have people direct reports that We'll say they're going above and beyond, yeah, but On paper they're not doing the job they were supposed to do. Hey, here's a template for this project. The client wants it in this template. This is how we do things.

01:17:43 They deliver, they follow the template, but put a little spin on it, a little flare on Now that might look to you like something oh, this is good, or it's new, or it's different, maybe better, but it's not what the client wanted and it's not what we're hired to do. Can that also be a problem? It is, Even when, oh, I went above and beyond, I did something different, I went better than how. Is that still a problem Without approval? Yes.

01:18:13 - Chase (Host) Yeah, no, you can't. It's like, um. An example would be we had a client, uh, and uh, our vendor was making, um, uh, some merchandise, right, it's like probably five, six thousand dollars of merchandise. And uh, he says, well, I didn't get a chance to talk to you guys, so I just, I just made a call and uh, and then changed the logo, a logo, a logo changed the logo. He said, well, you couldn't see the writing. And I was like it didn't fucking matter, right, that's what they want, that's what they said. They said do not change the writing because he sends his note back, said, hey, the writing is too small for this logo to fit in that particular point, and it was a bunch of things he said.

01:18:53 I said, no, you have to print it the way it's supposed to be printed, it's, they don't care about that, just do it the way. So we, um, I figured we were doing something and it was like a deadline day. We said do it by this time. And he said I couldn't get a hold of you guys yesterday, so I just went ahead and printed everything. It's like five grand in um merchandise plus another, you know, six or seven thousand dollars, and um, you know the actual uh embroidery. It's like a twelve thousand dollar job. And um, the clients, you know you go to your client and you go, hey, um, you know that thing we talked about with the logo you know that thing?

01:19:31 - Rob (Guest) you explicitly said yeah, that was one of those conversations and, um, my event coordinator was like I.

01:19:42 - Chase (Host) I said I don't think it's gonna be okay. She's like well, let me talk to them. And uh, I was like I don't think it's okay, I think we're gonna wind up eating this. And uh, they're like, well, let's see what it looks like. Right, it can't be that bad. So I asked him to rush ship one one item.

01:19:58 He didn't do that. He goes. Well, just ship the whole thing, because it's going to get there at the same time as like it's going to get there at the same time, no matter what I do. So let me just ship the whole shipment to you, because there's nothing I can do with it.

01:20:07 Like he's, like you, already bought it, right so let me just expedite this new problem, yeah this new problem is this uh, you know, like 500 in shipping cost, let me just send that out to you and then you you'll have them and then if they don't want them, you guys can keep them, do whatever you're gonna do what don't do? Whatever you want, they get out there and I'm like it's like that doesn't. That's not even this is so wrong, but that's the only color. Because I never said anything about the color shirts and I was like you know, they, they like their color. It's like you may not like their color, but it looks better on that color I go, I don't disagree with you, but that's not their color. If they want to wear pink and purple, that's what they want to wear. It has nothing to do that and the logo's wrong. And then, uh, my coordinator was like, well, you know, I'll, I'll show it to them and, um, we'll see what happens. And I was like this just says you know, I'm just gonna put them into gift bags and then we'll see what happens.

01:21:11 Ah, so, you know, they walked in and checked the gift bags and they were like what the fuck is this? They were like we told you about the vendor did it wrong. They were like, yeah, but what the fuck is this? This isn't our color and the logo's fucked up. It's like you've got to take all these out of the bags. You can't give these away. So we had to go. So it's like do you got to take all these out of the bags? You can't, you can't give these away. So we had to go. So it's like all the work and they're sitting in my or still it's two years later. They're still sitting in my work, can't do anything with them. Can't do anything with them. So they were logoed out wrong color. Can't destitch them. Eat that whole project. Yeah, okay, they have to have to final say on any artwork we do with them now good save, well, good save you've worked with a marketing department before.

01:22:02 They're like they want to know as centimeters, uh, now, when they we do a project or what it's going to look like before. So we have to start way in advance. And now we just have him work. He works for us, but he works directly with them and he goes okay, okay, I get it, okay, okay, I get it. I made him say because I'll never do that again. He did it once more where he sent the wrong fabric. He told them my son, he told my team it's wrong fabric, it won't work. You know, we already had this problem before and my, my coordinator was like no, send it anyway.

01:22:29 And she's one shirt. And it was, uh, I think that shirt cost me 400. And she said over. She said overnight it. And I go is it the right shirt? She goes oh, it's, it's blue. What, what difference does it make?

01:22:43 I said but is it the right fabric? She says but that's the right logo. But is the right fabric? It's the right color, it's the right logo, but it's the right fabric. She goes what? Like it's a shirt, they're like we don't want that, it's not the right fabric. I was like yeah, it's not the right fabric. It's like he had to rush ship that one shirt so that cost us. It's like a 40 shirt, so rush shipped it to him 200. He rushed the artwork another 150 bucks and then ship it to us another 150 bucks because he had to. This is where we're located, so this all had to happen within three days. He rushed the artwork another 150 bucks and then ship it to us another 150 bucks because it had to because of where we're located, so this all had to happen within three days all those little micro stings, but then it's just.

01:23:19 - Rob (Guest) You just pray that it's not stingy enough to lose the client right, I have that shirt framed for um here's what not to do, our biggest lesson. Why do you have that in that?

01:23:30 - Chase (Host) box is that? Because I want to remind us that you, this is a lack of communication. That shirt's a lack of communication. That's what it reminds me of. I should have put a little plaque on it lack of communication and then get one of the other shirts. This is what it's supposed to be and this is what came out when people told us you should put the price tag up.

01:23:55 Be like oh t-shirt, I know right, it's like fuck me man. Yeah, I, I I've made some mistakes like that in the past with people, but I've been very clear in recent years with my team about what I want. I'm very clear on the expectations of what we're trying to do and it's always been for the client. That never do anything for me. I said do not do anything for me. Good, do it for the client, because the clients are what matters at the very end and that's servant leadership. To explain, to explain to people what servant leadership is, is probably the biggest thing I've done in the last couple of years and how do you?

01:24:17 define that Basically being there for the client, everything's for the client and basically on our values. But what does the client want? What does the client need? And some clients are fickle, but they're fickle because they don't know what they want and as you, as a salesperson or marketer, you have to guide them to a solution.

01:24:33 - Rob (Guest) Sometimes you got to tell them what they want.

01:24:34 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah, if they don't know, and they're like, oh yeah, yeah, if they don't know, but at the end of the day they have to agree.

01:24:43 - Chase (Host) I learned a long time ago is I don't like talking to people who don't make the decisions. I said just put me in the room with the person that makes the decision for me to. If we have to go through iterations to get something to give to them, that's cool, I'm okay with that. But if I'm being led to believe that you're going to make the decisions and then it has to go up to somebody, it's, it's a waste of time agreed yeah because that person may be like no that's not how I want.

01:25:03 because you, because they don't understand that person's vision, and so you waste all this money, all this time, all this effort, on something that's not going to happen because this person well, I thought I had the decision to make. I learned that with YPO it's like the CEOs I can go to a CEO and get a job, but if I have to go through their HR team and their marketing team and everyone else and I'm not going to or department head, I'm not going to get the job, because now they got to sell it right and eventually they're going to have to bring me in any way to explain what I'm trying to do with them, because they don't have any idea what we're trying to do, and so, um, I mean they understand what we're trying to do.

01:25:35 I don't mean to say it like that, but they're trying to explain something where they don't have all the answers sure, sure yeah and so you need to ask me so I can tell you what the answers are, for what this is, especially if it's a large company endeavor where there's 30 people involved, there's 30 two years of coaching involved or a 60 hour program, and you know it's like you know half a million dollars or eight hundred thousand dollars for like the year or year and a half. So the company's gonna be like, well, why are we spending that amount of money? Well, here's your cost analysis for it. This is what the return is going to be for you if you invest in your people. Now, that's nothing compared to what it would cost you to keep people around. People want to know you're going to invest in them. This program's going to let you, let them know you're invested in their future, and then you're going to give them coaching to make sure they get it.

01:26:16 And I would say that most of the people in our programs the last couple years have been promoted. Right, they're like these people are great, they're awesome. They're like, yeah, yeah. Well, it's not, but I would say it's that's nothing to do with us, right? Yeah, we just open the door for them to learn about themselves and to communicate with one another and to move the ball forward within their own lives, and that's what we're there for.

01:26:37 And whether or not your company makes a bunch of money, I mean that's a nice benefit to have, but I said we don't promote that. You doubled in size or 80% of the people have been promoted to other jobs, because that was the intent anyway is to promote them. If they were able to garner leadership lessons from us, I mean that's the whole program is to get people to become more like leaders, and that's what I was saying earlier about. There's born leaders and there's people you can train to be leaders, but you don't want them to be managers. Managers manage equipment. They fix things. You know, like I manage all the equipment in this room. That's a manager.

01:27:12 Right right yeah, people are not equipment. People are constantly changing, evolving, developing organisms, so you have to be able to constantly change and evolve for them. There are no two people. You can train them the same or treat them the same, because the outcome has to be different. They have to feel that you're you're only talking to them and that your only reason for talking to them is you want them to become better, exactly.

01:27:40 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, exactly.

01:27:40 - Chase (Host) And then they feel like okay, they want me to be better than where I am. Okay, I get that. Can they understand my position?

01:27:47 - Rob (Guest) You know, speaking of the decision maker. Recently, as we're recording, the U? S just went through its top level leadership change new president and yeah, crazy so, politics aside, what leadership qualities do you see in our new president that others might not, and what do you think is his biggest flaw in terms of his style of leadership?

01:28:12 - Chase (Host) 2015. I was at the New York Athletic Club and I was sitting around a bunch of people. I was in New York and they were like hey, what do you think about Trump? They were laughing. I said what do you think about Trump? I said I don't like talking about politics with clients because I just generally won't get any more jobs for you guys if I say what my views are. I said I'm in New York. I said I have different views than you and I said I don't. That's not why you hired me. You hired me because I do this leadership training. Like no, no, no, drink with us and tell us what you think. And I said I really don't want to tell you what I think, because if I tell you what I think, then I probably won't get any employment. I'm like basically telling them what I think. Tell us. I was like okay, so just just go ahead and piss this away.

01:28:57 Um, I said I think trump's gonna be president. They're like why? I said because people look to him as a visionary, as a leader. Uh, he's saying the things that this is 2015, so he's saying things to people that they want to hear. Like I don't know if he's going to get those things done or not. I said but people, he's saying the right things and people look to light. Right, they look to light and people like the underdog. So that's what I think this is before he even this is after he came down the escalator and all that other stuff he becomes president. He leaves. Now he's president again. I think that, um, the, the shooting thing made a difference to him, changed his life. I think that he's talking about the assassination. Yeah, I think that he still You're talking about the assassination attempt.

01:29:34 - Rob (Guest) Right, the assassination attempt yeah.

01:29:35 - Chase (Host) I think that he's, and I don't want to be political about it, but I think any person that's learned it, that understands what they did wrong the first time and they learned the second time. What I need to do is a person that's learned a lot about themselves. They reflect it and said I am not going to do what I did last time. I'm not going to make the mistakes I made last time. I'm going to come in there and the only way we can change is a catalyst. Something major happens to us. So our country changed at 9-11. After 9-11 attacks, we changed the country and there's very the economic crisis. We changed the country. There's very few things on planet Earth where an entire country can change unless there's something major hurricanes or those things. They'll change the dynamic of that organ of us. The election in November and him immediately jumping on it is people are ready for a change. Um, whether you agree with the policies of the last president, president biden, and and what trump's doing? Trump's coming in there saying I'm an agent of change, I'm chaos and things are going to be different, and people don't really care that it's different. They just look for the change and they think think that he's going to do. He's going to be different.

01:30:47 I have friends of mine that say, well, he's a convict, and I go yeah, okay, but the last guy was too. So I'm not sure where you're going with this. I said people feel more comfortable. You can see it what people do on the holidays, they feel more comfortable. They're more patri four. Listen, if that's all he's done, that gives us consumer confidence, that gives us a way forward and we believe in ourselves and we will go forward from there. All the other stuff he's doing, I'm like I'd rather see his actions. I said he talks a lot, he's very bombastic in what he says, but I don't believe everything he said. I think he says stuff to get the media off track of what he's actually doing. They fall for it every time he's. He says stuff all the time and they're like they're in this state of which ball do I chase?

01:31:26 yeah, yeah, and he's doing this other stuff at the same time. He did stuff I didn't even know he was doing because they were so caught up on these other things.

01:31:33 - Rob (Guest) Um, but he's petty so I'm hearing you that, uh, you know this, this ability to go through a catalyst and change for the better, or we'll just say, at at least change is a good leadership quality Right, and then maybe this pettiness would say it's kind of his biggest flaw.

01:31:51 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I think that that's. I think. Sometimes I hear him speak, I'm like I can't have heard this before. I need to hear something different. I know you're going to do what's right by the country, but there's this pettiness that he has that it's. It's kind of like I got this great cup of coffee and how old did you say that milk was? It might still be good. He put in my coffee. He's like oh, is that curdling? I might be okay if I drink it, so so it's spoiled all the times. But he goes. He's cause he's pretty lucky.

01:32:19 I think he talked about Biden all day yesterday. I, all day yesterday. I didn't watch it. I didn't watch the. I didn't watch the speech. I heard the first part of it and then he started going with biden. I was like, okay, biden's sitting right there. I don't know if that's a. Uh, I understand why he does it, but we're not doing it for ourselves, we're doing it for the country. If you're gonna pull the country together, no one cares that. You think biden's a criminal, right, we're. We, we accepted it, we understand it. It's like them talking about you. No one knew you were like all these bad things about it, so we ignored that about them saying about you, then I feel that, as a country moving forward, you should ignore all that stuff at this point and move the country forward. It's not about the other man. You need to move forward beyond that stuff.

01:32:59 And I think that's if somebody were to give me advice like, look, if you're going to be the change agent you want to be, you got to get away from this stuff and stop dividing. People don't want democrats and republics, they want americans and what's best for us? I always tell people that we could be so much further along and our technology and our education if we just all work together. You know?

01:33:20 - Speaker 3 (Host) crazy concept yeah, I know what a concept we'd have the floating cars and all the stuff that we don't have now we should you know the Jets, cars and all the stuff that we don't have.

01:33:42 - Rob (Guest) No, we any leader in any self. Really, you're not progressing, you're not moving forward. Look to pettiness, look to ego, look to. Are you just saying yes and no to things because it serves you, or are you losing sight of what your real mission is?

01:33:57 - Chase (Host) Well, the problem that we would have or will have I don't think people are like this now and I hope it doesn't become this is that I said this about obama is that he doesn't have to tell people to do stuff that's wrong. He just has to infer that this is my policy and this is what we're going to do and this is what I want to have happen, and then people take it upon themselves to do the things they're not supposed to do, like we never said that. It's like he didn't have to. He's the leader of the group of people that are, that are that are actually I'm not talking about january 6. I'm talking about, just in general, if they were like, well, we're going to go after if bondi gets in there and she goes, well, I'm just going to go after all the people that trump doesn't like he didn't say that, but I I think that's what he would want. It's like no, no, no, no, no.

01:34:40 The people don't want you to do that. The people want you to apply the law equally to everybody. Moving forward, just moving forward. Let's just do everything equally Right. So I think those kind of things, when you're petty, people catch on to the pettiness and go. Yeah, we're going to make them pay for this. I don't think we should go through another four years of lawlessness of you know these court cases and seeing the president out there being, I don't think Biden should be attacked. He's 82 years old or 84 or whatever. He is His family.

01:35:07 - Rob (Guest) This man's old he is, let him rest.

01:35:09 - Chase (Host) He did do a good job. I mean, probably the presidency probably wasn't a thing you should have done in the end. I'm not saying one way or another. I think that where we are now is where we are now, and this is what we should be doing. To look forward is stop all the pettiness and stop who's side we're on the Republicans or the Democrats. It's like we're Americans Every speech he has is about being American and he's like we're Republicans. We're going to do this.

01:35:35 - Rob (Guest) I like that shift. I like that shift. Let's go back to just think we're all Americans here. Yeah, I like that.

01:35:41 - Chase (Host) Yeah, take all that stuff out of the. What race are you? What, uh? What nationality are you? What's the other gender are you? This is, we're americans.

01:35:47 I was talking to a guy I was doing a sorry, I'm just going to go off on a tangent for a second. I was talking to a guy that uh was a homeless guy and I was doing a what they call an intake find out who he is, what I can, how we can do helping with them. It's called a mental health intake and I go I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions. Some of you're gonna say you're 60 years old. You see, what do you understand? That's about gender identity. Because I go through this. You're gonna hear me say these things. I said I'll laugh because I want you to know before I ask you a question, so you're not shocked that I'm about to ask you a question that you're gonna think is stupid. So he says, uh, because there might be a lot of questions. I go there are a lot of questions. They're gonna make you feel that, uh, that why is that even on there? And I'm like I don't know why it's on there. I just have to ask you the question. You need to. You need to answer it and he would always say what do you think? And I go. I can't say that. I gotta ask you the question. You have to tell me what are my options and what options do you want? There's a bunch of them, um, and there's a question.

01:36:35 He says I said, uh, race. And he goes what, like a race? Because I'm an american, because, yeah, that's not one of the questions, that's not one of the answers. He goes. Why isn't it? I don't know. I don't disagree with you, but I'm like it's not on here, it's like it's not anywhere on here. So you have to pick one of the other ones. He goes. What other ones? I go? All the ones that are on here. He goes. Which ones?

01:37:10 - Rob (Guest) I go black, white, Asian, non-Hispan, that's all government reforms.

01:37:11 - Chase (Host) There's not an american. I'm like. I know there's not an american on here. I said you have to, you have to go to your race. It's a nationality, but I understand but I was. When you go to europe, it's like, are you an?

01:37:14 american are you? A canadian are you? I said that's on there, but in the united states it's all divided, subdivided. We're continuing to divide each other, I see that's my point is is that you all. We were always dividing, all the way down to not even the color of your skin. But are you Hispanic or non-Hispanic? Like what I think it's black, Hispanic, non-Hispanic that's what it is, and Caucasian, or is that even on there anymore?

01:37:38 I think it's white now, okay, but I don't think that's one of, I think that's a race. And then when you go to ethnicity whatever Ethnicity, ethnicity, yeah, you got it It'll have Hispanic or non-Hispanic or black. It doesn't say white, it just says Hispanic or non-Hispanic.

01:37:55 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I don't know Got to take a look at some forms. These days. Yeah, I don't. This is the government forms.

01:38:01 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it's just nuts, I, I, but I think, as long as we continue doing that, if you want to change something on day one and say we're going to simplify these forms, you're going to be an american or non-american citizen, non-citizen, that's it. Nobody cares about any other stuff. Right, your neighborhood sucks because you make it suck. Right, your benefits, uh, and and on that subject, just one day. One last thing is that you know, uh, because I do track everything there's a large number of people that are on Social Security, disability, and I think that that's one of those things that people just won't get off of as citizens.

01:38:35 - Rob (Guest) I believe in a big way. That's a mindset. It is that's a mindset.

01:38:40 - Chase (Host) But people strive to get free money because that's what we're teaching them. The government teaches them that that's free money.

01:38:47 - Rob (Guest) It's easier than actually applying yourself and doing anything.

01:38:49 - Chase (Host) You didn't work, you didn't work for it and now you're getting it. So it's hard to find people to employ that. They still want that money. So when you go out there to employ somebody for $20 an hour, $25 an hour, they want to make that. They want to stay under that money, so you still get that money. It's free money and it's so much work and it's we need to change. As leaders. You need to change people's mindsets or thoughts about what work is work is, and it's free and it's in it's control of your own personal destiny. The government is not there to help you. The government is to make you a ward of their control.

01:39:24 - Rob (Guest) Yeah, Rob, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate your time here today.

01:39:29 - Chase (Host) Sorry about the tangent. No, no, no.

01:39:31 - Rob (Guest) It wraps my head and my audience's head all around your vision and definitions and approaches to leadership. And my last question for you is you know I view this mantra, this question, as a form of my own self-leadership, um, but I'm always curious in my guests ever forward those two words. What do they mean to you?

01:39:51 - Chase (Host) well, for me I have something similar to that it's um and there's no finish line. And I think that that if you're always looking to move forward and at the next hill, you know in the military they you don't. You do the um, you do the marches and stuff over the hill and it's always a false flat. And if you false flat where you walk up the hill and also you get to the top. It's like I didn't see that from where I was oh, yes, yeah, yeah, you've got.

01:40:11 There's always another mountain it's always another mountain, so always forward. To me it's always there's always something to conquer, there's always something to do. There's never a finish line for you. To always keeping not keeping track of what you're doing, but to never look for the finish line for what you're doing. I think that's the best thing. And I was the false flat is the big one, cause you know you get up there like oh you gotta be kidding me.

01:40:28 And it's usually higher than the one you just came up. Jesus Christ, we got an 80 pound pack in your bag. You're exhausted.

01:40:35 - Rob (Guest) That's no joke. That's no joke, especially when you make a mistake. For For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com