EFR 861: The 3,000 Year-Old Secret to Mastering Stress & Anxiety and Why You Need a Moving Meditation Practice with Dr. Jenelle Kim

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Jenelle (Guest) And ultimately, when you do some of these techniques and I like to teach it in 10, 15 minutes, that's all you need. In fact, usually, like before, I'll walk into a room, even with you, Chase, if I'm walking on stage in front of 1,000 people, if I'm going into an important meeting, if my kids are acting cuckoo, you know you do some of these movements and sometimes it takes one minute. It connects with your breath. We all know how powerful breath work is. You do some of these movements and it very quickly rebalances your physical condition. And we say it all the time, but we have to understand what we're saying the mind and body have a connection. It's much easier in general that we can quickly rebalance our physical condition before our mental, Because if we could quickly rebalance our mental, we probably wouldn't be standing in the situation that we're in to begin with. Perhaps.

00:43 - Chase (Host) That's the human condition right.

00:45 - Jenelle (Guest) So, ultimately, what I really wish people to understand, and what's been passed down for thousands upon thousands of years from our medicine and the martial arts, is that hi everyone, my name is Dr Janelle Kim. I'm a ninth generation doctor of traditional oriental medicine and herbal medicine. Welcome to Ever. Forward Radio medicine Welcome to Ever.

01:05 - Chase (Host) Forward Radio. Hey, welcome back to Ever Forward Radio friends, I'm your host, chase Tuning, army veteran, certified health coach and wellness entrepreneur. And today I'm joined by the vibrant, the enthusiastic, the amazing Dr Janelle Kim. She is a ninth generation doctor of traditional oriental medicine. Janelle Kim, she is a ninth generation doctor of traditional oriental medicine, practitioner of qigong, moving meditation, as she calls it, and teacher of the eight keys of living meditation. In our conversation today, dr Janelle is going to be offering a centuries proven way to achieve a warrior mindset that allows you to balance with anything that comes your way in every area of life, including business relationships, even parenting. And that's because her principles are rooted in the Tao, the way of the universe, and have been passed down for centuries. Dr Kim's unique approach to meditation combines lessons on movement and natural medicine learned from a lifetime of experience studying Eastern philosophy, eastern medicine and even martial arts. So if you have any crossover interests in integrating the philosophy, medical wisdom and expertise of East Asia and the Western world, talking about the advancements of modern life and the medicine of the West in order to touch and positively affect your life and others, you are in the right place. If you have not yet done so, subscribing on your podcast platform of choice following, whether that's Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever right now. If you took three seconds, it would mean the world to me and my guest today, janelle, to let us know that you found value in our conversation. It helped you move forward to live a life ever forward, and it truly does help support the show and grow the show in big, big ways. Tap, follow, tap, subscribe now. I appreciate you. Thank you, without further ado, join me in welcoming Dr Janelle Kim to the show.

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03:44 I've been using Fatty 15 for over a year now and let me tell you I feel the difference. Also, I love knowing that I can get about three times the essential fatty acid health benefits from just one teeny, tiny daily vegan capsule, instead of having to take multiple giant, stinky, fishy, smelly omega-3 supplements. Fatty 15 has really replaced so much in my pantry. So if you're ready to give your body what it's been missing, head to fatty15.com, slash everafford to learn more. Grab your first bottle today and save an additional 15% off of their 90-day starter kit. Moving meditation yes, this aspect that's pretty new to me, I think. Meditation I think a lot of people do. You need to get still, you need to sit, you need to drop in, you need to close your eyes, you need to do a lot of these traditional things that we think of with meditation and we do.

04:37 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes.

04:37 - Chase (Host) Um, but what is it about your approach to meditation that is so different, okay.

04:41 - Jenelle (Guest) Well, that's a a whole thing that I'm wishing to share. That does stem from my lineage, but not just my lineage from thousands upon thousands of years of medicine. So, to begin, I'm a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, of traditional oriental medicine, ninth generation, the first woman, my lineage. One aspect when I came out with my book a couple of years after my father passed, it was very important that I put down the principles. In fact, he's in the book. I kind of go back and forth with him, with his master.

05:11 Soon after, because I did mention the three pillars medicine, movement and meditation I found that people naturally started asking me about the movement aspect. So, ultimately, what I really wish people to understand and what's been passed down for thousands upon thousands of years from our medicine and the martial arts because it all comes from the same root, okay Is that movement can be one of the strongest, most effective and quickest forms of medicine, if you will form ways that we can very quickly calm our nervous system. And so, ultimately, I teach Qigong, that's. That's a good place to start. So Qigong equals the moving meditation that I teach, okay.

05:46 - Chase (Host) And can you kind of briefly describe qigong for us?

05:48 - Jenelle (Guest) Well, qi is vital energy. So qi is the vital energy that flows through our bodies, it's all around us, it's everything, it's the yin and the yang. Right Also within our bodies is blood fluids like the substance. So let me backtrack for a second. I think this is interesting to people, if not just move me along, jace. So first came the Tao, which is the universe. From that came yin and yang. Okay, so people know that symbol. The black and the white looks like a fish.

06:16 Everything in life is that duality and that dichotomy. That's why everything in this life is about balance. For example, you cannot know success unless you know failure. You do not know happiness unless you felt sadness. Right, in our own bodies we have qi and we have blood In some way, like general 101 Eastern medicine, you can even imagine that qi moves the blood throughout your body. Now, of course, in Western medicine we know we have a circulatory system, we have our heart, we have pumps, we have all the things.

06:43 But another way of looking at it is that so qigong is vital energy and it's the consistent skill of cultivating it. So it's understanding that we are energy and that's Eastern, western alike, right? I mean, einstein talked about this. Okay. So energy exists, and one way of understanding our bodies, which also equals our mind and our spirit, is that we are kind of this ball of qi, and if we are just a vessel and if we don't have control over our own qi and vital energy, it becomes scattered and chaotic. It's an interesting way of kind of picturing us right, and so, for example, going to qigong or the moving meditation that I teach, it's a way to kind of collect, cultivate your own qi, and qi travels throughout your whole body and meridians.

07:27 For those that are interested, I won't go too deep into this, but the same understanding. You can visualize how your circulation goes through your body, so does qi in your meridians and through that. That's what makes all of your organs function, that's what brings ultimate beauty, that's what brings longevity, wellness, health, and so these meridians go through our body. We can kind of generally picture them running, touching every part of our body, but each organ system has meridian. It's all connected. So the ancient, ancient teachers, the martial artists, the doctors, they passed down medicine that helped our body to function properly and flow, which are the things that are necessary for ultimate health and wellness. But they also taught movement, and with certain movements like the ones that I teach that have been handed down in my lineage, almost always a proper traditional martial arts or any kind of that exercise. That really is a very internal, external, like a wellness approach to physicality and working out okay usually comes from a root.

08:20 And those people are the people who existed again thousands of years ago and it's been handed down. And the way I understand is it's been handed down for one reason it's because it works. People are not stupid. It would not exist for thousands of years if it didn't do something. So kind of concluding here certain techniques have been passed on my lineage.

08:37 There are other lineages out there and ultimately, when you do some of these techniques and I like to teach it in 10, 15 minutes, that's all you need. In fact, usually, like before, I'll walk into a room, even with you, chase, if I'm walking on stage in front of a thousand people, if I'm going into an important meeting, if my kids are acting cuckoo which they're such good boys. But we get it. You know, you do some of these movements and sometimes it takes one minute. It connects with your breath. We all know how powerful breath work is also connected to meditation. You do some of these movements and it very quickly rebalances your physical condition and we say it all the time, but we have to understand what we're saying. The mind and body have a connection. It's much easier in general Most people would agree I don't know anyone else who wouldn't that we can quickly rebalance our physical condition before our mental, because if we could quickly rebalance our mental, we probably wouldn't be standing in the situation that we're in to begin with.

09:27 That's the human condition right To some extent, whatever that means. So that's what Qigong does. It helps us to balance our physical through breath, work, through connecting the mind. It is a moving meditation.

09:39 - Chase (Host) Would you say that Eastern medicine has a place right now in the world of Western medicine, because I feel like we're predominantly Western medicine focus, at least here in the United States. Is there a place in our modern world for these ancient modalities?

09:55 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely. Is there night and day? Is there yin and yang? Is there a masculine, feminine, as I said before, is there happy, sad, particularly after the last couple crazy years? I don't even want to talk about covet anymore, but I will have gratitude towards, regardless of what anyone feels about it. I do have gratitude towards it in the in the sense that, in my personal experience and humble opinion, I have never seen so many people look to other uh more ways, if I maybe that's a good way of saying it to taking care of ourselves, to maintaining ourselves, to boosting our immune system.

10:28 - Chase (Host) Yes.

10:28 - Jenelle (Guest) To preventing things before they come. So oftentimes those ancient medicines will focus on that Right. So, in short, one way that you can kind of maybe define each is that Western medicine does focus more on symptoms, right, which can be incredibly beneficial. I think a lot of people expect for me to come in and say Western medicine is bad. I completely disagree. Let me say that very loud and clear. We each have to know the difference of when to do and when not to do. Thank goodness for Western medicine, things such as, for example, antibiotics, technology for diagnosis, certain emergency type surgeries I mean, why in the world would you ever discount that Right and many of the new innovations. We won't spend our time going through all of that. However, by the same token, the ancient medicines truly do look at the body. How do we, how do we live long lives? Right?

11:17 The Taoists, 10,000 years ago, when Eastern medicine first began, and actually there was a time where I even started putting out articles and I'm still doing that, but other things have. You know, I say I'm one person, but I'm joking, but there was a time where I wanted to, when everyone started speaking of this biohacking kind of movement. Let's call it, I don't want to call it a trend because I want it to last, but I say the original biohackers were these Taoist immortals 10,000 years ago, were these practitioners and they understood nature. They understood the way the body worked. They were the first to ever create plant medicine. They were the first to ever understand the human body. You know, and to some level I'm not here to speak for them, but one of the things I love and I think about often is they set out to be immortal, like I'm not a bad, Not a bad goal.

12:04 Right, we're like we just want to live long and healthy. They're like we never, ever want to die.

12:08 - Chase (Host) Immoral in the sense of like the physical being they're like how do we take care of this body so that it can physically live forever?

12:14 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, and the very interesting thing that I am speaking about more and more now is when you look back again what's been passed down, because they did not write this themselves, but all of Eastern medicine and the ancient medicines have been built upon the word of mouth and the lineage and passing down of these things. You look at what we talk about in biohacking and anything that has to do with our wellness, health, beauty, and you look at what they said and it is incredibly similar, because things don't change that much.

12:40 - Chase (Host) Principally, right, the human experience doesn't really change that much. No, no.

12:43 - Jenelle (Guest) Obviously time. You know, we live longer. Now we have all these things because of all of the modernization and uh, medicine and everything that we have. I mean, that's a whole conversation. But we can't forget, and I think more and more people, kind of in conclusion to this response, are going back to their roots. They are the ancient medicine, you know, it resonates and so, yes, when it comes to Eastern philosophy, eastern medicine, eastern movement, right, absolutely it's. It's along those same lines mindset, your mind and being aware of yourself is the most important. In fact, my book starts with key number one. Chapter number one is called know your true self, which, by the way, is forever. It's a forever journey. You know I joke, but I'm serious. To kind of like put it in our brains, I don't expect anyone to call me one day like a Janelle Dr Kim. I did it, I found myself this is really thank you for the book Like, okay, that's really amazing, but it's literally our human condition.

13:36 - Chase (Host) It's true, in that moment I've definitely been there. But it you have this realization of I know myself, you know thyself, and then you quickly realize, oh, how much you don't know.

13:48 - Jenelle (Guest) And how much, or or, yes, absolutely, and how much more I can grow. Right, so Confucian, right, the wisest man, woman, the wisest human never thinks they know everything. Paraphrase, but ultimately right. And so know your true self goes back to kind of in one. Know your true self goes back to kind of in one simple-ish phrase everything starts from within you. Right, so you have the choice. You are in charge of everything. The only thing in this entire life that you can control truly is your own self, and I don't even love that word, but it helps us to kind of, you know, wrap our head around it. That's it. You cannot convince anyone of anything, really, if they're not willing to move. Right, so you are. If anything ever happens in your life to you physical, mental, spiritual relationships, whatever that might be it all goes back to you. How are you going to?

14:35 I always like to think I break it into two words react or respond, because I have taught myself, trained myself. It's a training of the mind, is what I call it. But to me I have trained my mind, right, and I want to take that for a second. Like, we know how important it is to train our body, but if we actually think about it as a training of the mind. It's a nonstop that to me. We can move down. We can talk about this later. That, to me, is correct meditation. That's what we mean when we say that. But going back to this, we react or we respond Like. Those words mean something to me. So to me, reaction is based on emotion.

15:07 Now, of course, emotions are important. We're human beings, that's how we feel and that's how everything kind of processes through. If you will, long story short, but when we react based on emotion, we have to remember that emotions are always up and down. It is that dichotomy. Like I said, things are always. The only constant is change, and so we have to be aware of that. I feel very strongly and that's what has been passed down through many cultures and ancient philosophies, if you will, because when you just react, you don't pause. Basically, you're constantly letting the emotions and life run you, and it can be incredibly exhausting. And if that's what you choose to do, then so be it, and sometimes we do it. We're human. I'm certainly not perfect. There's times where I'll react, but I've trained myself to respond, and even when I say that word chase, I swear it calms my mind, it calms my nervous system, it calms my chi, because I've taught myself that even when I say respond versus react you pause right and when you respond.

16:01 what I mean by that is you balance with whatever's coming your way. I mean, that is what I say living meditation, that is what the ancient philosophers, a lot of which we resonate with.

16:11 There's plenty of philosophers out there, but the ones that certainly resonate with myself as well and many people I come across, that's what they're speaking of. No matter what, we can't control anything in life, things are going to happen to us no matter what we do. Hence life. But what are we going to do when something stands in front of us? How much are we going to let it take away from us? How much energy is going to take away? How much time are we going to sit there and have it take away from us? And I do want to say it that way, although it can sound a little harsh, but I think it's important for us, you know.

16:37 - Chase (Host) Truth oftentimes is harsh. Yeah, I think.

16:45 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, absolutely. And then you have to find a spark like what quickly can ground us and it can adjust and change. For me, a lot of times it's my children, you know, remembering losing my father like this, totally unexpected. One day he was here, one day he was gone, and I will say it's one of the greatest gifts I've ever received, which sounds crazy, but in honor of him, I will never forget that, to the best of my ability, and that I very much sparked by that, by everyone that I love, people that I care about. You know all the things that I wish to share to the best of my ability, but when I see my two young boys, they are my biggest spark that, no matter what is happening in this life and, believe me, this week was a crazy week Um, those are the moments where you know, no matter whatever happens, I am here right now and so, instead of reacting and letting it drain me which there's moments, of course I'll speak very personally and hopefully everyone will see this vulnerability, because I don't always do this, but I want it to be helpful. You know, when things are hard, it does drain you.

17:35 I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a business owner. I do many things. I have to. I have to tend to it. That is my choice, but I choose to. However, how much is going to keep taking me away, for example, in that moment, with my boys? That's my choice. This is an example, right, and so there might be a time where I tend to it to a certain amount, and I realize you know what, in this one moment, I call it zooming out.

17:57 That is living meditation. You take a pause. Very much. The physical aspect, the moving meditation, is also breath. I'm a huge proponent and many of us are becoming more aware of this that whenever you're faced with a situation that you really start to feel your chi rise, your nervous system, your brainwaves start to get a little chaotic. Right, you're reacting to what's happening. We can start to respond in a more balanced manner by breathing, in, taking a pause, finding some things that we are super grateful for. That's what is an incredible spark for me. Then we look kind of zoom out Okay, these are the things, and you start to train your mind. If I walk down this path, I have a feeling this is where it's going to go. If I walk down this path, there's a good chance that this is what's going to happen. So at least I'm going to pause for a minute, maybe even overnight, because guess what? It'll probably still be there unfortunately, or fortunately, yes.

18:46 And then we respond accordingly, and so I went a little bit more there, because I promised that why I wish to be here is to be effective.

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21:15 So if you want to wake up feeling truly refreshed head to Elevate Breath, linked for you in the show notes, to learn more about the science behind better breathing, and grab your first pack of mouth tape today that's E-L-V-T-B-R-E-A-T-Hcom, and at checkout, throw down code CHASE. You're going to save 20% off of any pack of their breath strips. Again, that's E-L-V-T-B-R-E-A-T-Hcom, check out code CHASE to save an additional 20% off. I promise you mouth no matter our philosophy or approach to life. A lot of times, if we just really sit and listen to what they're saying, we have commonalities and experiences or philosophies, and in my head immediately there's this term that we have in the military called tactical pause, and so you take that tactical pause just so like, and it's usually not when everything is going right.

22:09 Or you know sometimes, but you know it's usually when shit hits the fan. It's usually not when everything is going right. Yes, or I mean you know sometimes, but you know it's usually when shit hits the fan. It's usually when you don't know what's going on. You got contact left, contact right. You know everybody's confused or you don't really know what to do and the worst thing you can do is just to keep advancing. In some scenarios you need to take that moment to pause like detach and it can be a second.

22:27 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely, I think that's beautiful. Yeah, that's all you need. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, that is just, that's a whole, very one of the best examples I can think of in those types of situations you know, and I know, I know that that's what makes you all that much more special.

22:41 - Chase (Host) This other word came to mind, and that is responsibility.

22:44 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes.

22:45 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you were talking about, you know, kind of taking this pause and then really figuring out how to best respond to life's situation, our situation and for me. I've had so many people in my life where, like in my head, I'm just screaming you are constantly the victim, you're, you're the common denominator here. You're just refusing to really see what you are contributing to these circumstances that you are not happy about.

23:11 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes.

23:12 - Chase (Host) And that you feel other people are preventing you, life is preventing you from the same experiences or the same joy or successes.

23:21 - Jenelle (Guest) Right.

23:22 - Chase (Host) And I feel for most of those people. I want to tell them and I have told many of them you're not taking responsibility for your contributions to your circumstances. Yes, If we are struggling to take responsibility, how would you advise somebody to do that, so they can really figure out how to respond Absolutely Instead of keep reacting the same way?

23:44 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, responsibility, accountability those are the words that I often also kind of run through my mind and in what I share Um. Another incredible, uh, in my humble opinion, kind of phrase, if you will, that I always love is when one finger's pointing forward, how many are pointing back? Yeah, Like four, right, Three three, four, whatever, Same same.

24:05 But when you're pointing one finger, three are pointing back at you. That's another kind of visual quick thing, like to kind of check yourself Right, and I could not agree more. I think I started touching on this and then didn't, didn't move forward. But here we are. You know, um, that the only thing in this life you can control is yourself. That's the truth, and so when something keeps going amiss, you can keep pointing the finger.

24:27 But another way that I like to visualize this or communicate this, educate on this, is if we keep taking things out of our body right, ultimately in some way, shape or form, we're placing blame or not taking the responsibility and accountability it can become incredibly chaotic very fast. You know what I mean. It can be one of the scariest things recognizing and acknowledging constantly that I am responsible for my life, I am accountable for anything really that happens to me. It doesn't mean you know all the things that happen in life, but how I'm going to balance with them. It sounds repetitive, but I have the same answer because it doesn't really change.

25:00 So at the end of the day, no matter what, what comes your way, I agree, if things keep going wrong, sometimes life is hard in certain moments for us, you know, and that is part of our, our life, our destiny, whatever words resonate or whatever our beliefs are. You know, things are happening in front of us, but if the same kinds of things, we keep getting in conflict, we keep going down this road, it keeps happening. Wouldn't it be wise you know, I'm not going to tell, I'm going to ask wouldn't it be wise to sit back for a second and kind of zoom out, as I say, and look at the situation to the best of your ability and teach yourself to keep doing that, cause that is expansion of the mind, that is meditation. That's why I call it living meditation. Okay, so maybe I'll go here for a moment.

25:39 - Chase (Host) Okay, please yeah.

25:39 - Jenelle (Guest) Meditation we're all talking about it now. Well, again 20 years ago, when I talked about meditation, like wow, she's a big weirdo, I'm like, okay, whatever you know. Now here we are and it's the coolest thing on earth it is pretty cool and I'm like okay, it is pretty cool.

25:51 - Chase (Host) There's a reason again.

25:52 - Jenelle (Guest) it's existed for thousands upon thousands. They may not have called it meditation, but you better believe they were doing it. You know, my father learned in the mountains of East Asia. It still blows my mind, it's like from the movies. From the age of seven to 14, he studied in a temple, okay. And then my mom. My mom was blonde hair, brown eyes, you know, I came along, so on and so forth, right, so we get the idea here. It's not always what we think, okay, but what he taught me, what his teacher taught him, again, this goes back thousands upon it's, it's the human, it's principle, right? Is this understanding of what I call I made that phrase up living meditation? I don't think my ancestors were calling it that, but hopefully we're saying exactly the same thing which is meditation.

26:35 Why do we even sit down to do it, chase, I ask you, and there's no right answer, so I hope I'm not putting you on the spot.

26:41 - Chase (Host) What is?

26:41 - Jenelle (Guest) meditation to you.

26:43 - Chase (Host) Meditation for me now is something, a practice that I have been introducing into my routine really this last year and for me now it does look like sitting down, getting still, closing my eyes, going inward Um nothing, guided Well sometimes, but it's really just um consistent, intentional stillness.

27:05 - Jenelle (Guest) Why.

27:07 - Chase (Host) Uh well.

27:08 - Jenelle (Guest) I start. Why do I do it I?

27:09 - Chase (Host) do it now because I found that I really enjoyed it. I love how it made me feel, but I actually started doing it because I was actually a part of a meditation study Um and so, yeah, I did it to uh support a study, and then I realized I got immense benefits from it in terms of clarity.

27:25 I got a great energy boost. Oddly enough, it felt like a shot of espresso and um, I love the way that it makes me feel and I also love that I am consistently and intentionally making time to do nothing. Okay, because if I don't, the rest of my day is going to just take me with it.

27:40 - Jenelle (Guest) There you go. I love that there is no right answer. I mean, I suppose there could be a wrong answer. You know, meditation is to create chaos, like that would be a little odd.

27:47 - Chase (Host) What's going on in your mind?

27:50 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, there could be wrong answers but in general, meditation is clarity, is groundedness, it's being able to expand our minds, it's calming ourselves right, it's for our health benefits it's for beauty, even wellness, you name it right. And so why do we have to stop? Why do we feel who made the rules that sitting down, while I'm a huge proponent and I teach seated meditation, which, by the way, is incredibly hard for human beings?

28:14 I can't tell you how many times I go to an event. What's the number one thing? It's very hard to sit and meditate.

28:17 - Chase (Host) Well, of course it is. That's what everybody says. Of course it is.

28:20 - Jenelle (Guest) My response. I make everyone laugh, but I'm not joking, of course it is. You're a human being Like. If it wasn't hard for connect and have all the answers, the world would be a much peaceful place, you better believe it right. And so we have to remember that. So, by nature, of course, it is that's why we do this, but also we make it much more. I'm kind of tangenting a bit, but I think this is important, for how do we kind of go into ourselves, take accountability, take responsibility?

28:45 - Chase (Host) I haven't forgotten where we are, but the meditation.

28:48 - Jenelle (Guest) What I'm explaining is exactly that. Right, so we do meditation. I call it living meditation. Again, it's every single moment. Why do we have to stop just when we sit down to do meditation? If we start to look at life, you know, I kind of challenge everyone to stop, and just even for not forever, because I think we do that to ourselves and it never makes sense to me. From now on, I'm not going to have, you know, anger anymore. Okay, well, good luck with that. You know you've had anger all of this life, or grief, or whatever it might be.

29:15 God willing, you got a lot more life to go, so it's a big claim, it's an expectation that, again, if you were able to do that, you would have already done that, right? So, this next minute, this next hour, maybe, look at life like that. This whole life is in some sense. We have the opportunity to do meditation in every single moment equals living meditation. So, no matter whatever happens, we take that pause, as we were just talking about kind of going back, and we bring ourselves back into ourselves. Right, okay, we can take that breath, because it's very grounding in and of itself, and we start to realize that, going back to what we said, everything starts from within you, right? So, yes, the Eastern philosophies we were just in Greece the ancient philosophers, they all acknowledge this as well, that when we bring it back to ourselves, we realize that nothing can, can move us. You know, to some extent, Okay, Go deeper there.

30:05 - Chase (Host) Um, I think that is a great goal that one could have, and maybe one we have all heard that could be. You know the effect of meditation, but the world's a big place. We run into a lot of different people who don't meditate, who don't have that level of awareness. So how do we really, how to really get to that point of not being movable by other people?

30:27 - Jenelle (Guest) Well, I think it's a constant. Again, I don't know, I don't know of anyone who just, never, ever is unmoved, but you keep reminding yourself and building towards that for our entire lives. Chase, and I will guarantee that when we become better and better at this, it becomes a good habit. We can make it very simple. That way, we create bad habits for ourselves. Well, guess what? Through training our mind, our body, we can create good habits for ourselves. So I think that's a good way of understanding it.

30:54 So, in this next moment or this next couple of hours or during this day, I'd like to focus on being aware that when someone stands in front of me or work stress comes up, I take a pause, I don't let it shake me so much and I do. That's where I think the moving meditation aspect of it really kicks in. In fact, one thing I really want to share that I feel like our culture doesn't understand yet, and it's really important when you look at East Asia, when you look at India, some of those very old yoga, martial arts, before you ever sit down to do meditation, you usually do some form of movement, whether it's you know, it can be really any kind of to put you in your body, because, because you rebalance your body, you put your awareness into your body. Like if I were to right now teach you a few very simple qigong techniques, where a lot of times you're just in a stance or you can just do it here in a chair.

31:41 You put your feet on the floor, breathe in through your nose, exhale through your mouth, making sure to put the breath into your abdomen. That in and of itself, if everyone were to try that right now, you would and you have to teach yourself to become aware of this you would feel yourself ground, you will feel your nervous system calm, you will feel more present by one breath. Do you see what I'm saying?

32:04 - Chase (Host) Do you think is that why people, most people, struggle with meditation? Is because I can't get into my body. I can't get my body because you're trying to jump ship.

32:13 - Jenelle (Guest) I definitely think that's a. You know I'm not going to say that's what I was taught by my, but doesn't it make sense you?

32:18 - Chase (Host) know one of the things I've never heard that explanation before it makes so much sense.

32:20 - Jenelle (Guest) That's one of the things I love the most about Eastern medicine in my again, my experience is that it just move your body, you flow right. So the stagnation of the mind, the body, is the literally leads to illness, it leads to mental health, uh, imbalances, Stagnation is the worst. You always want things to flow. So when you get your body kind of flowing properly and then and simultaneously doing something that can also calm your mind and your body, then you sit down to do meditation and you don't have to sit there for hours. That's the other thing too. People are like oh, I did it for an hour. That's wonderful. And there are certain practices.

33:00 Let me tell you my father was in the mountains of Korea with his master. That was part of his training. Different than us, right that? He actually taught me much different. No, for 15 minutes. If you truly put your mind and heart into something, especially by following these techniques and what our ancient teachers taught us, and you sit down for five minutes, it's going to change your. I already heard you say that it changes your whole day, so I love to do this in the morning.

33:22 Again, kind of going back to your original question how are we able to do this? How can we keep bringing things back into ourselves? These are all the tools, the three Ms, as I call them, medicine, how we take care of ourselves, Of course, the products that I make through my lab, their internal supplements, their topical formulas, all of this matters because it keeps our body functioning and flow. Then you move into movement. What movements are you doing?

33:45 And there are certain ones I do want to note, like traditional martial arts, for example, yoga. There are certain movements and exercises, if you will, that have been passed down because they are known throughout history to quickly rebalance your body in the way that I have explained now for some time, internally and externally, so not just your muscles and your joints, but also your organ systems. And when all that starts functioning again, to really make it simple, your body starts going into a proper and more balanced flow. Right Living, meditation, the mind, the philosophy of it same thing, it's just tools to help us honestly, kind of, at the end of the day, calm ourselves. That's the truth.

34:20 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I was going to get to that. I feel like most people's understanding or meaning behind meditation, like what am I going to get out of this is to calm ourselves. I would describe that as meditation is great for general well-being. Yes, we know that. We have science and evidence to show it lowers cortisol, lowers your heart rate, blood pressure. So, aside from general wellness and kind of calming stress and anxiety, would you ever prescribe we'll say here air quote prescribe meditation for more acute issues?

34:55 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely. That is why what would be an application, kind of going back again that's why I started. I started on this. I can't remember if I completed, but that's why I started teaching moving meditation. It was kind of happenstance. My very close friend had me start sharing some of these movements because she said that's so interesting with a little bit of my community. And then it started to grow and then, you know, I find myself in New York with Diane von Furstenberg and all these. You know these huge beauty shows that I've been at for 20 years speaking about the herbal medicine and skincare formulations and treatments. Now I'm starting to go to these shows teaching moving meditation at the same time.

35:29 - Chase (Host) So would you? Uh, is there like a meditation protocol you have for skin health? Is there a meditation for a fatty liver disease, for diabetes, for kind of? Like a a air quote again here true medical ailment or issue.

35:42 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, now I want to be careful at what I say. Just let me put it this way. You know, starting thousands of years ago up until today, it is very common actually to be prescribed air quotes. If you're not seeing me movement. As much as I'd give you a formula or a medication or medicine. It is that powerful. In fact, when I studied Eastern medicine at the university not necessarily what's been passed down to me, but both actually apply. When you first begin, you learn Qigong as part of your curriculum period. End of story. It's just as important in the beginning to understand that as it is to go and study, and it's really not easy, as people soon find. You know all of the herbal ingredients that exist in the Materia Medica. You know every acupuncture point and how you treat people.

36:27 Qigong is right there as one of the first things that you need to know in your core curriculum.

36:34 - Chase (Host) It's pretty interesting, I know so again I want to ask is there and I know you have to be kind of, we'll say hypothetically here um, someone with, uh, you know, rosacea? Acne absolutely someone who is. I got my labs drawn and I see that, oh, oh, my A1C is creeping up. Would you say meditation could serve those people?

36:57 - Jenelle (Guest) Of course, and I know plenty of Western doctors nowadays, thank God, that 100% agree with this as well. That's why you're seeing especially on the different coasts, because it's known to do that particularly on the West Coast. We're very fortunate that you're seeing so much more integration. I mean, I've sat on panels with Western doctors for decades now, you know, and it's very when I stick to these principles, chase, I have found that it's very difficult to try to argue when you're really speaking of the kind of the same topics we're speaking of.

37:26 Is it important to calm our mind? Is it important to release stress from our bodies? Do we not know that stress is one of the number one killers, literally, and one of the number one causes of all, so many of the conditions that we have, from skin to your internal organs, to hormonal imbalance, to I mean, you name it metabolic, same same digestive nervous system, it all, of course, so kind of working backwards. That way, absolutely, it can have a huge effect and I I feel very strongly and I'm so grateful Again, I'm repeating that just so many Western doctors are acknowledging this now very much. So, you know, and working together, that's the way it should be, that is the balance right, you know, and there might be. It's a whole other conversation.

38:05 - Chase (Host) I'm not going to open up a lot of um kind of the. The more scientific application of meditation, mindfulness, calming the mind and the body consistently and intentionally, but even just consistently, has a lot of benefit for uh, heart rate variability beyond. Uh, that's at the. That's actually why I started meditation. I was doing this study and they were testing the correlation between heart rate, heart rate variability and this meditation absolutely Biofeedback, basically, and actually as of this is going live.

38:37 Kimberly Snyder her new book. I was part of the study in her new book. Oh neat.

38:41 - Jenelle (Guest) Okay.

38:42 - Chase (Host) And so if you want to check it out, the results are pretty wild. I don't know my. I got to get my results. So my specific results I'm kind of speaking collectively here.

38:49 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes results.

38:49 - Chase (Host) I'm kind of speaking collectively here. I believe the group had an average of like 25 or even 30% increase in a heart rate variability and this coherence rate. Um, can you walk us through a little bit more of that? More scientific application meditation for heart rate variability. What's going on there and how does meditation actually influence something like that?

39:09 - Jenelle (Guest) Okay, okay. So I'm going to divert your question because I'm going to stay in my lane, because I think that's the correct thing to do but we will speak on the same. We'll speak on the same thing.

39:17 - Chase (Host) And again.

39:18 - Jenelle (Guest) Sometimes I think part of my role on this earth, part of my duty, is to keep kind of bringing it back to a little bit more. You know, very profound and complex, but also keep it a little bit simple, because we all like to overcomplicate things. I think that we have a little bit of a an imbalance collectively right now that we love to complicate everything on accident. We're looking for a simple answer and then we start going crazy in our minds.

39:40 - Chase (Host) So having said that.

39:42 - Jenelle (Guest) I will say again that, of course, our heart rate, right right now, if we do our breath, just like I said, that will ultimately calm your heart, right. It will calm your brain waves, right. That's huge right. It will calm your brainwaves, right. That's huge right. So we want to go from beta. You know there's the beta, there's the gamma, the theta, the alpha, and we want to be able to all that. We can try to memorize all of that, but by the end of the day, once again, as long as we calm everything.

40:07 The way I like to explain it, chase, is this Our bodies are truly miraculous, eastern, western. There's not a doctor if they truly are a doctor, who would disagree how miraculous our bodies are, and people alike. But the thing is this is the way I like to explain it Our bodies go through so much every single day we don't even think about it. That's how powerful we are as human beings, right? Even when we're sleeping. The air that we breathe, like all of the pollutants, bacteria, virus, you name it, the list goes on the stress that we come across Nowadays, the food that we eat, the water that we drink I think I already said all the stress Products that we put onto our skin, filled with chemicals, preservatives, everywhere we look. Our body's hit with so many different things, and so my favorite way of describing this or explaining why do we go natural, dr Kim.

40:53 Why is it important to do meditation? Why is it important to do certain movement? Is it enables our body to calm? Because when our bodies are calm and balanced in that because I really do stick in my lane, because I think it's important, that's why I'm here to understand chi and blood and how it flows I also feel it's really important because when we keep it there, you start to truly become aware of your own body. We can go to all the doctors out there and I'm grateful I'm one of them.

41:18 So certainly I'm not going to say anything against that. But by the end of the day, going back to that responsible and accountability, no one truly is going to understand what's happening inside you. Or it should be this way you should be the first one to know something's off. How often do we have no idea when something is amiss? That's like a serious problem. And then then, when we have mental health imbalance moving into a condition, when we start to have a physical imbalance moving into now, a sickness, what in the world made us not even realize that that was happening? Because our bodies tell us for sure, you know. And but if we're not, because we are so powerful, we keep moving through and all of a sudden we look, we get stopped in our tracks.

41:56 Now I have this Shoot I'm in the middle of a panic attack. Actually, a girlfriend called me just the other night and she said I'm having a panic attack. This is my second one. I don't know what to do, and so honestly, even in my role, I first had to do it myself because, like chi, energy is that strong on the phone Breathe. I said exactly these things.

42:16 There's certain things you do to make yourself present, to make yourself know that you're here. This is a microphone, this is my hair, this is a table. It's a very interesting thing. You have to become present, but there are ways that, when we realize something's going off, equals going back to how does meditation help our heart rate? How does it help to calm our nervous system? Well, yes, I love all the scientists who sit there and figure this out. I'm a huge proponent. What I am here to share with everyone, because it is, in my humble opinion, the most empowering thing, is you feel it. You tell me, you take a breath right now, no matter where you are, truly just be, close your eyes, feel your body. What did you just feel? Do you need someone to do a test to tell you that?

42:53 - Chase (Host) I don't always say it this way, but that's the truth. Biomarker testing is great. I love it. It's so important. I'm not discounting anything, but sometimes we have to know what's happening in our own body.

43:03 - Jenelle (Guest) You can't just you know how many times I've hit roadblocks because the medicine that I was teaching way back when, or the herbs that were in this incredible skincare it changed people's lives, but they didn't understand how, based on this test, because our tests couldn't even catch up to what I was, what we were sharing. But at the end of the day, it worked right, and so we have to balance both of those things. So I love, love that people are doing this. I'm a huge proponent do these studies because they help us understand more and it resonates with people that that resonates with Certainly resonates with that part of my brain. But at the end of the day, you do it because it works for you.

43:37 - Chase (Host) It's almost like the more science we dive into and the more science we land on as an explanation for something. Yes, but what happens when it doesn't? It helps things make more simpler. Of course, more simple, excuse me, absolutely.

43:49 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely. That's why I'm all for it. That is literally I say I was put on this earth and this is a huge, huge duty that I'm giving myself. But I've committed, I'm put on this earth to the best of my ability. Exemplify like literally just being alive the East and the West, the old and the new. You know, I feel like we're really there. I do too.

44:06 - Chase (Host) I kind of joke, I laugh, just because I've been as a personal wellness enthusiast for almost 20 years now but also, you know, I was a working professional clinical health coach and wellness director in medicine for years. You know running an online coaching company as well for many years after that.

44:26 - Jenelle (Guest) You know.

44:26 - Chase (Host) so I walk the walk, talk the talk kind of thing I think it's all coming back to right now. There's this era of just boiling it down to as simple as possible.

44:33 - Jenelle (Guest) Thank God Of what do we need and look online.

44:36 - Chase (Host) Everywhere I look at least, is sleep move water relationships.

44:42 - Jenelle (Guest) And eat properly. Yeah, of course. Good nutrition, quality nutrition, same thing.

44:45 - Chase (Host) Yes, I know, you know this, really, there's no science in there, it's just basic, fundamental principles of just simple things you need to do repeatedly.

44:52 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely.

44:53 - Chase (Host) And then you know, we look at like Andrew Huberman, Peter Attia yes, you know, like there's all this finite stuff we can break down and get into the minutia.

45:00 - Jenelle (Guest) Absolutely, and that's an explanation. And it's incredibly interesting. Yeah, it is. It's incredibly fascinating. It helps us understand other things that we may not have known Truly. I'm all for it, however, and any I would imagine that they would be, I actually I know for a fact that some of the people you just said it has to come back to the root.

45:16 - Chase (Host) Just sleep more. Yes, yes, yes why.

45:19 - Jenelle (Guest) Let's understand all the details of it, but at the end of the day, just what do you mean, why you need to sleep?

45:25 - Chase (Host) don't you, do you need to breathe.

45:27 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, you need to breathe, okay. Yes, you need to breathe. Okay, that's good, we got that. You should probably feed yourself good things or not? Once again, it comes back to you.

45:35 At the end of the day, you have a choice to do. You are the one who's making the choice to go one way or the other, no one else. You cannot blame that on anyone. Someone could sit here a million times and tell me to do something, but if I decide I'm not going to do it, guess what? I've made my decision. And if I decide, if you, as a good friend, say don't go down this road, janelle, this is going to happen, this is going to happen, and then I choose to do it and it happens, what am I going to do? Blame you? These are very simplistic ways of but when we really do bring ourselves back to that, I truly know, not just believe that our life is going to change a lot in a time that is, um, I think most of us look around right now and you know it's very challenging for so, so many people right now, you know, and that's why I feel compelled to share these tools. That's why I like calling them tools, you know. Yeah, can we actually dive into?

46:26 - Chase (Host) um, kind of getting towards the end here, I want to dive into your. You have tools actually have eight of them. Uh, and in your living meditation, yes world. Yes, what are these?

46:34 - Jenelle (Guest) or maybe walk us through a few of them, I want to say like the most important ones, but you know, maybe.

46:38 - Chase (Host) What do you think are the three most important of these eight keys? That someone can really grab hold of and apply today.

46:45 - Jenelle (Guest) Okay. Well, the beautiful thing is and if someone is just tuning in I spoke about Be Like Bamboo. That's the eighth one at the end of the book learning how to be incredibly grounded and rooted, which is everything we're talking about. That's not an overnight thing, that's a constant, a training of the mind, body and spirit, for that matter. It is how we eat correctly, it is the supplements that we put into our body. It's the first pillar, that medicine. I literally have trained myself to look at it this way too. Right, by doing all of these things, we're able to keep grounding ourselves and rooting ourselves, and why I? One of my biggest goals in life is to keep grounding myself, keep rooting myself, because when I'm super rooted again, it goes back to that be like bamboo. You can't move me so easily. It doesn't mean you can't move me. Going back to what we were saying before, of course I'm a human being, but I tell you what I would hope that I'll come back to center.

47:32 Yes, yes, and that's so important to me. So be like bamboo is so important in so many aspects of life. Huge in business, I mean, not easy I was just having this conversation too. When you're an entrepreneur, you know this. But no matter what role, it's not, it's not easy oftentimes in our career path and it's huge in most of our lives.

47:50 But being like bamboo, how we look at our team, how we look at the people we work with, in that kind of environment, you flexibility, you remember, can often be the biggest strength Doesn't mean you can't put your foot down. That's the balance. Doesn't mean if something's not correct or you have a point to make, you don't just sit back. That's not what I'm saying either. That's not the Tao. You know when to do, when not to do that Be like bamboo. And parenting huge, huge. And taking care of our bodies huge. Again, it's always that balance. You know even my own children when it comes to food, you know they know what to look for because I teach them. A lot of us are doing this now. How beautiful for this next generation, you know. But if they come home and they had a bag of Doritos, guess what?

48:28 - Chase (Host) In my experience, in my life, it's going to be cool ranch Doritos. It's going to be okay for the most part, you know balance is what I'm saying in many different examples here.

48:37 - Jenelle (Guest) I also started and already mentioned the first key know your true self, right One that I think you're going to like a lot, chase, and I haven't talked about in a minute, but it's the third key and it's called stop being drunk on your own thoughts.

48:49 - Chase (Host) Ooh, what do you mean by that?

48:50 - Jenelle (Guest) Okay, so there's a Korean phrase called dochi I don't know what else to call it in the English language but it's basically being we have to be so aware that we have to always. Again, it's all about balance and fine lines. And I tell you what, chase, this book is not easy to put into words because you're taking these profound principles and, if I may say, tell me are you going to say something?

49:09 - Chase (Host) No, I was just going to say I have to imagine taking large, grandiose philosophies and boiling it into some words. Yes, and making sure I don't want to make a mistake, Right?

49:15 - Jenelle (Guest) yeah, you know it means the most to me to share to the best of my ability, and, of course, my father was not around so it made me paralyzed for a minute, to be honest, but like I got to keep doing this and he taught me enough, and I have years of notes and that he's been passed down and so on and so forth. So, on that note, stop being drunk on your own thoughts. Again, it's that fine balance. But we have to be aware, because when we're aware of our own selves, including our mind and the thoughts that we have, that is how we can live the most optimal life. Have, that is how we can live the most optimal life, right, our mental health, our physical health. That leads to ultimate wellness, that leads to beauty and longevity.

49:50 And what I mean by that is stop being drunk on your own thoughts. Just as we can drink alcohol I think most people understand this If you drink a lot of alcohol, you can't see clearly, right, our thoughts can do that too. They can intoxicate us, and if we're not willing to be open, to pause, to stand back for a second, to put ourselves in someone else's shoes before reacting, so that we do respond accordingly, you know those things are going to help us see so much more clearly. And that's know that we can be drunk on our own thoughts and it can be the most dangerous of all when we're so like tunnel visioned and we can't see anyone else's perspective. You know, that can be incredibly dangerous, as I think we were seeing a lot in the world around us right now, and the beautiful thing is it's not something that you have to go around sharing with everyone just within yourself. Just be aware that if you're really pushing, especially in relationships I can't tell you how many people around me right now are having, you know, imbalances in their relationships.

50:45 My husband and I have been together for 20 years, coming up actually in October 23rd. We've worked together for 19 of them. We have children together and you know so I even I'm starting to realize, you know, I think I can. I come from a lineage, you know so I come from a line of masters. To call myself an expert was even hard for me and my team's. Like Janelle, you got to just like oh, but that's hard, like.

51:04 I have to live lifetimes to become an expert. You know, not like this anymore, but I'm joking, but serious I do. Even I have to sit back and think, wow, we've been working together and in this relationship for this long, and it very much applies there too, you know. So when we're in a situation with someone you care about, or someone just out in your community, someone you're working with, or even a stranger, depending on how, what that means to you, that when you say there's conflict to sit there for a second, you know I always say take your sunglasses off or zoom out and just maybe for one moment try to understand where they're coming from. You know what I mean. It will help us to see that much more clearly. Then, if you choose to keep moving through with your what you feel very strong about, it doesn't mean that's why it's hard. It's not a plus b equals c right, the dow is it's always that balance, that yin and yang.

51:51 - Chase (Host) It's always two plus two equals five yes, basically yes.

51:54 - Jenelle (Guest) And when we start to understand, even the understanding of that chase breaking down that has helped me so much in my life, particularly in the last couple of years. You know I can be very linear and logical thinking. There's a part of me that really likes that. I'm very academic in many ways, you know. But when I started to realize, you know, sometimes you really do just have to sit back, take that breath, keep moving. I'm incredibly proactive, I'm not a passive person but, you know, really do sit back. A lot of it has does have to do with faith.

52:20 For me, something I haven't discussed yet or touched on it can be faith in God, higher power in nature, but something greater than our own selves. I find that that's really important. That's also very much in the principles that are in the book, as we were sharing the eight keys, as I call them, you know. So there's something greater than us. So if we calm ourselves, we zoom out, we're careful that our own mind can make us see, so tunnel vision, which can really really harm our lives and the people around us. Right, we use certain tools to help us keep opening that up, keep calming our mind the medicine, movement, the living meditation, the eight keys right Then, as we go through life, you're just much more connected.

52:59 Like even talking like this I feel more connected because that is chi you know, and then you can you see more clearly. You know to some of us, and certainly I look at life this way I can hear what my father has to share with me. You know what I mean. I can you know the universe can show me the correct way to go. I do trust in God, whatever that means to all of us. But you know it helps us connect and so that was I gave you key one know your true self.

53:27 - Chase (Host) Key three which is stop being drunk on your own thoughts.

53:29 - Jenelle (Guest) Key eight be like bamboo. There's other ones in between and then you know, I think, one that you're going to enjoy. That maybe can kind of round up the eight keys for now is it was very important to me that one light one match can light a thousand, and it's one of my favorite things and that's ultimately that's what you're doing, what your father did with the ever forward. One match can light a thousand, and it's funny because my whole life I thought of that. It was so inspiring and so beautiful. And it is right Literally one positive thing can light a thousand more. But I have to root in what I've been saying this whole time. Right, the yin and the yang where there's positive there's always negative. It's just the way it works, for lack of a better way of putting it. So we also have to remember that one negative thing can ignite a thousand negative things. It's very powerful.

54:13 - Chase (Host) Reminds me of this phrase that actually my brother-in-law has tattooed. I might be butchering this, but basically it's what is meant to. What is meant to give light must endure burning.

54:23 - Jenelle (Guest) Yes, okay, I love that, yes, I love that.

54:31 - Chase (Host) What is maybe one area of your life if you're open to talking about it a problem at home or at work, or just an obstacle where you really feel like you are having to burn right now, where you really maybe need to to to to own your own practices? How are you applying it into your life right now?

54:50 - Jenelle (Guest) Well, I think I started. So what a beautiful way to kind of close up. I literally could not live without what I'm, what I teach. I truly practice what I preach because a it matters so much to me. I could never stand in front of you if I did not practice this. Just not who I am, but also, chase, I couldn't live without it. So everything I've talked about today are truly how I go about, from the moment I wake up to the time I go to bed, and probably in my dreams.

55:14 And so the truth is, yes, balancing it all. I mean being a woman man and woman alike but being a woman with my two young boys. I have my husband. I'm very close to my family. I have a community. You know. I own businesses. I run a huge manufacturing lab. We make products for other brands out there. I mean there's so much to balance and I choose to have it this way. You know what I mean.

55:36 Again, we have to catch ourselves. Sometimes, you know, of course, sometimes I'll be like, wow, I wonder what it would be like. Quite frankly, I can't even go there because I have no idea. I have no idea what it would be like ever, ever, to go home and not think about these things, never, ever. But then I also practice what I preach. I sit back for a second and think would I win it any other way? And the answer is no. And also I'm so grateful to have like right now, right, I'm live, just got. I just left my boys, I came home. I left my boys, I came home, I came up to LA.

56:10 Today I live in San Diego. It's not like it's just a hop, skip and a jump. It's three hours driving up here usually Stay, I have to wait till the end of traffic, go back three hours. But what a beautiful thing, because then I focus on how grateful I am. It is my duty and it is my commitment to share all that I can with what has been passed to me.

56:21 My boys know this too. I communicate it to them all the time, since the time they were two and they could understand. They knew mommy's doing this because I love you both. I wish for you in this life to do something where you give positivity into this world and utilize it for yourself. But that is why I go and do these things, you know so, communicating the philosophy of it all, the practice of it all. But of course, sometimes it's hard, jason, of course, and like I already shared this, last week there were a hundred hiccups. It doesn't always happen that way, you know. See, when I came here and I feel like I'm cause, I had two hours in the car of quiet, so I was kind of quiet.

56:53 - Chase (Host) I'm beginning to feel that even now my kid's not even born yet. I travel quite a bit for work and I have even more so recently. And it's just, I already have this pull to. You know, I want to get back home. I want to get back home, but also it's this duality of that and I'm here for them, I'm here for my family. And it puts me even in this new level of check, whereas, before you know, I love my wife and I love being with her.

57:18 - Jenelle (Guest) But you know, sometimes it is different for adults.

57:21 - Chase (Host) It's putting me in this form of check of like really really asking myself okay, is this trip necessary? Is this time away necessary? Can you condense that time? Can somebody else do it? Is there or can they come with you? Right, Exactly when I traveled a lot and obviously how grateful.

57:36 - Jenelle (Guest) We worked very hard to be able to do this. Not everyone can, but, my goodness, right before you know, the whole world shut down. I was traveling to Europe all the time because we were. We have a lab to create these formulas in Europe as well, and I would get the kids I traveled. I was on stage a month after I was, uh, had my baby, and I was saying this is for everyone, but this is my choice. You know, with a one month old, you know, six months, four year old, going around the world. So you know, life doesn't have to stop, you know, but we do have to balance with it. You know, now I don't know if I could do exactly that A it doesn't work for their lives. They have to be in school. Now my oldest is almost 12, you know, and also I have a lot more. You know, things on my plate and, uh, it is a lot of times it's about also stopping and checking Am I exhausting myself?

58:21 - Chase (Host) It sounds funny but it's true, it's important.

58:23 - Jenelle (Guest) I think I'm invincible half the time and then I'm like wait shoot. I also have to practice what I preach with that Absolutely.

58:34 - Chase (Host) I have a lot of chi and energy.

58:35 - Jenelle (Guest) but come on Well, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for your time and your energy and your presence.

58:37 - Chase (Host) It's been very felt. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwardradio.com