EFR 858: The Two Things You Need to Have Better Conversations With Anyone and the Best Questions to Ask to Get You What You Want in Life with Topaz Adizes

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Topaz (Guest) Be aware of the questions you're asking. We're not trained in asking quality questions. Well then, how do you have quality conversations? That's something we don't learn. That's something that you're modeled in your family and your friend group, but you don't learn how to do that. Any question that starts with are is do, would, should or have. I don't care what words come after those six words that start. The answer is a binary. You learn, oh, to have quality conversations, it's two things create the space and well-constructed questions.

00:30 - Chase (Host) Am I where I wanna be? Am I moving forward in life? What questions am I asking of myself and my environment, and are they getting me what I want?

00:37 - Topaz (Guest) Right. The answer is the question. Because the question, which is a starting point, which where all the power lies, because the question shapes the answer, that's where all your emphasis should be on, and then have faith that the beautiful answer will appear. If you're asking a beautiful question, I want you to come up with 30 questions. You're going to fill in the timeframe how it makes you feel, how it makes someone else feel, and here's the great thing about questions is you can always ask another one.

01:01 - Chase (Host) Yeah, how can I develop an anchor of trust so that I can go explore deeper? That's a great question.

01:07 - Topaz (Guest) Hey, I'm Topaz Adizes, founder of the Skin Deep, Super stoked to be here with you all here on Ever Forward Radio. Hey friends.

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02:48 Hey everybody, welcome back to ever forward radio. I'm your host, chase tuning, army veteran wellness entrepreneur. If you're new here, that's my quick backstory. If you're a repeat listener, great, it's so amazing to have you come back episode after episode, and no matter if this is your first episode or 100th episode if you haven't yet subscribed to the show. If this episode, or any other episode you have ever listened to, has added value to your life, has helped you move forward in a unique area of your well-being. I have an ask for you. It would mean the world to me and it truly does help the show grow in big, big ways and helps us reach new people to help them live a life ever forward If you would simply tap that follow button, that subscribe button on your podcast platform of choice right now if you're listening on Apple, spotify or any one of the bajillion apps out there to listen to podcasts Just following the show, subscribing to the show would mean the world to me and I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

03:51 But today, in today's episode, we have a truly special guest, a repeat guest, in fact, someone who has mastered the art of storytelling in the most profound way, say hello again to Topaz Adizes. Topaz is an award-winning writer, director and experienced designer whose work explores human connection through deeply immersive interactive storytelling. He's the creative force behind the Skin Deep, an Emmy award-winning creative studio known for sparking meaningful conversations through documentary films, digital experiences and even physical card games designed to bring people closer together. They're fun, they're amazing. I have some at home. I highly recommend you check them out. All of Topaz's work and his cards and everything in the skin deep you're going to find linked for you down in the show notes under episode resources. So definitely check it out.

04:42 But Topaz doesn't just tell stories. He creates transformative experiences. From his work with AI-driven interactive narratives to his innovative use of technology and storytelling, topaz and his team are redefining how we connect, reflect and grow as individuals. I can't wait for you to join us and dive into his journey, his creative process and how he's using storytelling to bridge the gaps between us all. More importantly, he's going to challenge you me to think of better questions, to come up with better questions and, in fact, get us to think differently about questions and answers. If we're not where we want to be in life, if we feel like we are still struggling to land on the answer we want for our job, our relationships, our finances, our fitness, our any form of well-being. He's going to challenge us to go. Maybe we're focusing on the wrong answer and need to shift to the right question. Welcome to the show. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a big part of your work is still around questions. Oh yeah, and asking what a lot of people might say are difficult questions, uncomfortable questions.

05:51 - Topaz (Guest) I call them. Well, to me it's just well-constructed questions and I think one thing I've seen this last year, talking about it, is that we're not trained in asking quite quality questions. We don't know, we don't know how to do that. And then we're also not trained in asking quite quality questions. We don't know, we don't know how to do that. And then we're also not trained in how to have quality conversations. And it comes. You know.

06:11 The equation is, you know, esther perrell is in like in this field, who's amazing and has her books out and you know, as a clinical therapist and incredible author, she says you know, the quality of your life is commensurate. Quality the quality of your relationships, okay, cool. Well then, how do you have quality relationships? One way is quality conversations To engage and explore your relationship and see the nuance and see what you're experiencing, and to see and be seen. Okay, you have those quality conversations. You have quality relationships, okay, well then, how do you have quality conversations? That's something we don't learn. That's something that you're modeled in your family and your friend group, but you don't learn how to do that.

06:47 My team and I have been doing this for the last 11 years, witnessing over 1,250 conversations. We've learned, oh, to have quality conversations, it's two things create the space and well-constructed questions. And we could double-click on that. But that's what I've learned is like the value, like this thing that the world that I've been living in and holding space for, which I kind of take for granted because it's obvious and it is, it's not for everyone, yeah, you know. And then, oh, we've been in this privileged position to witness so many conversations and how to construct it, how to hold a space for it, like what makes a quality question? Oh, now we've been offering it. Oh, now we've been offering it. And that's like the great feedback that I've been getting in this last year is the value offering of that is, oh, how do we have quality conversations, how do we construct good questions? That's something we're never taught.

07:35 - Chase (Host) Well, we're kind of teaching it actually in the other studio, Boom all right, there we go. I have the cards over there. I don't know how many people are using it, but we have some little prompt cards. They're great, little interview questions or for adding a little variety in the other studios. The question, and it's the fear of the answer, the fear of, is there. Do I know the right answer? Am I going to be afraid of the answer that I get from the other person?

08:14 when, I ask this question, especially in this intimate relationship. So, but that's really where the growth comes from. Right Is from the question, not the answer, right? So if we want to grow, especially in your world of relationships, how can we get over that fear of the answer, of having one or not, and get to the growth aspect of the question?

08:36 - Topaz (Guest) Well, first, let's just acknowledge that when you hear someone say, oh, vulnerability, I'm being vulnerable, or the courage of being vulnerable, we often equate that to the person who's sharing and what you're saying is sometimes you don't want to ask questions because you don't want to have the fear of the answer. And I think we should also equate the vulnerability to the one who's listening. We don't often talk about the vulnerability of what is involved when you're listening because we don't practice listening that much. Right, if you look at social media, like, we're not in a place where we actually practice sitting down and listening, holding the space to take in what someone else is sharing, and that does require some courage because the answer could be very vulnerable for you, right, confronting. So let's just acknowledge that, like when one person is listening, one more person is sharing, it's vulnerable. Sharing it's also a gift because they're opening up, but it's also vulnerable to take in because maybe the answer is confronting.

09:27 - Chase (Host) Right, that's one.

09:28 - Topaz (Guest) Two is it's not about the answer, it's actually it's not about finding the answer, it's not about getting the answer, it's actually sitting in the discomfort of the question. That's the question Can you in your relationships, whether it's your intimate, like romantic, or your best friend or your colleague at work is, can we sit in that uncomfortable space of the question and not have the pressure of actually having to answer that at the moment? Because if you look at your life, do answers come like this whenever you ask them, when you want to do something and achieve something? It doesn't just happen like that. When you're asking a profound question of what you want to do with your life, or if you want to marry this person, or where you want to live, it doesn't just happen like that. You ask it and then you give it time. Things sprout. I mean seedlings take time to sprout, become a tree, a plant, whatnot. So the same thing with answers. So are you in a space in your relationship, are you cultivating the space in your relationship to sit in the discomfort of the questions and know that in time, the right answers or the proper answers or the constructive answers will come?

10:31 Then the flip side is the answer is the question. What do you mean? The question shapes the answer. So the answer is the question. Because the question, which is a starting point, which where all the power lies, because the question shapes the answer. That's where all your emphasis should be on and then have faith that the beautiful answer will appear if you're asking a beautiful question.

10:59 So let me go back here. Simple, like yo, you're going to have a kid, and a year from now, two years years, when the kid's talking, you go hey, you want to go to sleep. Your kid's gonna yell no, okay, that's what's gonna happen. You're like but that question, yes or no, do you want to go to sleep? Okay, you're shaping the possible outcomes by saying do you want to sleep now? Instead, if you ask your son, you say do you want to sleep Now? Instead, if you ask your son, you say do you want to sleep on the couch or on the bed? Now, the answer, saying no, is not an option. Your questions shape the possibilities. The possibilities are the bed or the couch. The question shaped the answer.

11:38 When you run a race course, right, when you're on a race car, race cars driving one out, the race is shaped by one out. The race is shaped by the course. The answer is shaped by the question. Oh man, that's like fundamentally like we can end it now which, like what I've seen and learned, is that, like everything is shaped by the question and we in our society are so focused on the answers. We're running around answers, but we're chasing answers that are probably on the answers. We're running around answers, but we're chasing answers that are probably the right answers to the wrong questions. And not only that, but but the yeah, but not only that, but the questions that we're asking ourselves are they really your questions? Or are they your father, your mother, your society, your society, your religion? Whose questions are they? How much are they your questions? And the more unique questions you ask of yourself, the more unique the answers you'll get, the more unique of a life you'll live.

12:38 - Chase (Host) Let's go there. This is actually an area that I wanted to get to. I'm going to jump down a little bit. What you're describing the word came up for me is container Containers nature, nurture, religion, belief systems, where we grew up, our peers, the school. What containers do you think most people have that they might not be fully aware of? That predisposes them, if you will, to a certain way of thinking, therefore, a certain way of asking or not asking questions.

13:08 - Topaz (Guest) So do you mean like when you say container, like you were describing.

13:12 - Chase (Host) You know, is this even my question, right? Is this my father's question? Is this my pastor's question, right? Is this my great aunt Sally's question? Yeah, so how do we wrap our head around? Is this question my own? Yeah, and if it's not, where did it come from? And then I guess step three is do I even align with that?

13:29 - Topaz (Guest) yeah, exactly I think, just asking yourself where's this question coming from? Is this really my question? I mean, this is beautiful that we're talking about and then maybe it sounds too meta, but be aware of the questions you're asking. I mean, in my first 30, 40 years of my life I was asking the question am I genius enough, which was a fucking? Or do they think I'm a genius Because I'm a film director or whatnot? And that's a high bar to set? And also it puts the result on someone else's judgment and God knows you have to rely on someone else's judgment. It's like and whose question is that? That's my dad's question, which is basically nothing's of value unless it's basically genius. That's like the bar, all right.

14:11 When I realized that I was like wait, first of all, that question is not going to put me in a productive position. No wonder I'm always disappointed, never happy, never fulfilled and always basically sad. And then wait. Well, I'm even asking this question. Oh yeah, because I was raised to know that that's the bar. So I'm actually answering the question that my father posed to me. Do I want to answer that? And maybe you do, maybe you don't, but are you conscientious of the questions you're asking yourself? And if you're conscientious of the questions you're asking yourself, you can also change them and shape them.

14:45 - Chase (Host) So just to kind of, I want to make this very practical and tactical for the listener, the viewer, as they're kind of following along. So here we are, we're asking, we're aware of the question? Sure, so is my ultimate goal of this conversation is to really to wrap our heads around. Am I asking questions, what are the questions and how do I become more comfortable with them and the answers? Or just sitting with the question? Um, but ultimately, every conversation here is to help us move forward in life, to live a life ever forward, I say. And so I think, with that snapshot in mind of am I where I want to be? Am I moving forward in life? And if not, let's go back and say is it because of the questions? What questions am I asking of myself, in my environment, and are they getting me what I want?

15:27 - Topaz (Guest) right. So, oh, great man, this I'm sure you're. I'm wondering if you're honest, like wait, this is too much what met? But like there's, am I moving forward or not? Let's start there. That's a really answer, yes or no? Any question that starts with R is do, would, should or have. I don't care what words come after those six words that start. The answer is a binary one, meaning it's going to be a yes or no. Yes, no, left right good bad.

16:02 - Chase (Host) And you're saying we should get away from that.

16:04 - Topaz (Guest) I think it depends on what you're looking at. Sometimes you need a clear answer. But how often is life clear? Yes or no, minimally Right, like am I moving forward? It's like, well, it's been that one. Well, in which realm health maybe, mental health maybe not. Relationship, yes, and work definitely, but then mental help me like it's two grand.

16:29 So get specific about the question, like and that's where I think we need to pay more attention and constructing the questions, because that opens up opportunities, that creates nuance. So, for instance, it's like if I was going to say am I moving forward, it would be in the past three months, have I progressed in the field of my mental health? Okay, I can get a very clear answer yes, no, but it's a timeframe. And it's like very specific. But if we go, am I moving forward? It's like, well, you'll spend months like well, it's not because your mind is racing to serve the question. It is a faithful dog dude. The mind is going to chase whatever stick you throw. It doesn't question where you throw the stick, and the stick is the question. You throw the question, you throw the stick. So, am I moving forward? Your mind is going to race to try to find the answer to that You're throwing a stick in a very dangerous spot to find, because it's like well, how do I answer that? Maybe my mental health is challenging, but my physical health is better, but my relationship's good work is good. This is the whoa.

17:31 And what timeframe? Like right now, or the last year, the last six months, what so? Break it down Makes it more manageable, that's like, and I think, and I've been wondering why, like, we're taught critical thinking, but critical thinking is applied to a question like hey, critical think, process this information? Is this good or bad? Is this faulty information? What is happening politically? Or like what pulling this lever? What should you critical thinking? But you're not taught about the question upon which you're asking to begin with and how you shape it. Yeah, so then does that make sense?

18:11 - Chase (Host) oh, like, here's another one wrapping my head around it.

18:12 - Topaz (Guest) Okay, so let's do another one how many times you have entrepreneurs who, like I want to build a billion dollar company, or I want to build a company to exit? They're, like they know, before they even know what they're going to sell or how they're going to find their business model or product market fit. Like I'm building this to exit. Why? Why you that I'm going to build this to exit is an answer to a question which is I'm going to build a company what you, that I'm going to build this exit is an answer to a question which is I'm going to build a company, what you know I'm. How am I going to make my money? How am I going to be a genius? How I'm going to be seen by everyone? Oh, I'm going to build something exit. How I'm going to be the most badass entrepreneur? Well, I'm going to do what everyone else does.

18:43 I want to build a company to exit for a unicorn a billion. Why are you asking that question? And like I'm not saying it's a bad question per se, I'm saying why are you asking that question? Is that because that's what everyone in your field is doing? And on your feed you see the hustler culture, like, yeah, I'm going to build and that's what all great entrepreneurs do, and they're just going to build a company exit. Why am I doing that?

19:07 - Chase (Host) So is what you're saying kind of the familiar why you Is what you're saying kind of the familiar why? You know, we ask a question and why, sure, I want to build a business. Why? Because I want to exit? Why Because I want to make a lot of money? Why Because I want to have a nice life? Blah, blah, blah. So is it just that, or is it going?

19:20 - Topaz (Guest) how is it different? It's that it's why I call like why, why, why, why, great. Another one is why, what if I already have it? So you go why? What if I already have it? What would that give me? And then you go back to why, all right, so why am I doing that? Cause I want to build a billion. What if I already have it? Well, I don't have a billion. Well, what if you did? Well, then what if you already have it? And you do this loop, and it would take you in a different space to just dive deeper into the reasoning of what we're doing. We are programmed for answers. We're not programmed to realize that that's what we do, and therefore we should give more emphasis to the questions we ask. That gives us more conscientious life, and I do think it's a why, why, why. But what I'm saying here? Is that okay, great. So then the next question is how do I construct a good question? Ah, okay, three parts time frame, how it makes you feel and make someone else feel.

20:21 - Chase (Host) Hey guys, quick break from my conversation with Topaz to pay the bills over here. I love creating content and I'm so grateful that we have great listeners like yourself and very valued sponsors, like today, Comrade Compression Socks to keep the show flowing. So, yeah, I said socks, but let's think about it. Let's talk about something that most of us don't think about enough. That's our circulation. Whether you're on your feet all day, sitting at a desk for hours or just looking for a way to keep your legs feeling fresh and energized, I'm here to tell you one of the ways that has added immense energy and value and recovery and all the things to my day. That was a huge surprise were gradual compression socks, and I really do think they might be the everyday health upgrade that you didn't know you needed. And when it comes to the best in compression, for me it's Comrade socks. They've got you covered. These aren't your average socks, and that's because Comrade uses gradual compression to improve circulation, reduce swelling and keep your legs feeling light and energized all day long. Perfect for travelers, athletes, nurses, teachers or anyone who just wants to feel better from the ground up. Seriously, I have flown maybe twice in the last five years without Comrade gradual compression socks and I hated it. This is one of my biggest travel hacks of all time for just feeling more comfortable on flights, even if it's just a couple hours, and feeling more energized that day. Because I don't know about you, but traveling drains me. Staying seated drains me, but not when I'm wearing Comrade socks. And the best part, they're designed to be stylish, comfortable and breathable. No more bulky, medical-looking socks. So take care of your legs and feel the difference with Comrade socks. You can check them out at ComradeSockscom to give your legs the support they deserve and give your wallet a break it deserves. When you use checkout code CHASEC15 to save 15% that's C-H-A-S-E-C-1-5, CHASEC15 at checkout to save 15% off of the best energy hack you didn't know you needed Comrade Gradual Compression Socks.

22:30 Today's episode is also brought to you by Audible. Listen up book lovers and even those of you who wish you had more time to read. Let's get real for a second. Life is crazy. Life is super busy. I'm raising my hand over here now because, as a new dad, I am struggling to find time to fit in one of my favorite pastimes and that's reading. Snuggling up on the couch or on the chair with a great book and a cup of coffee. That's where I'm leaning to audible. So maybe you're a new parent like me or you want to devour books while commuting, working out or doing the dishes audible has you covered.

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23:53 So if you're ready to turn your downtime into discovery time, check out Audible today at audibletrialcom. Slash ever forward to get your free 30 day trial started, which equates toa free credit. So you're going to get basically, your next book for free for the next month. So start listening, start learning and start loving books in a whole new way, linked for you as always in the show notes today under episode resources. But again, that's audibletrialcom slash ever forward. A U, D, I, B L E T R I A? Lcom slash ever forward. Go deeper there for us, please, Cause that's what I wanted to go. Next is you know what is then the framework, what is the approach to asking you know the right question to get us to the next right question?

24:41 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, so it's great Cause we're usually all my work is in in um in the context of a relationship, and now we're really talking about your individual life and when you're asking yourself a question about your life, what you're doing, give it a timeframe. Give it how it makes you feel, how it makes other people feel. Why Timeframe? Because nothing's infinite. I mean, if you're just doing like, am I moving forward, it's like what's the timeframe? Because shit, things change all the time. We have to give this thing a timeframe. Shit, things change all the time. We have to give this thing a time frame, like to make it relational into the aspect of who we are and how we change over time, or else we can't really relate to it.

25:19 - Chase (Host) You can't.

25:20 - Topaz (Guest) It's infinite, it's like the whole lifetime. It's like where should I live? Well, should I marry this person? Okay, that's a great question. Right, you want a binary answer for that one. But it's like whenever you're stuck on a hard question, create a better question, and it has timeframe. Should I marry someone? It's like okay, hold on a sec. What I always tell okay, let me stop for a sec, I'm getting too excited, this is good coffee, it's really good Is look, I get calls from friends whenever they have a problem that they can't figure out.

25:56 I seem to be. I really love the fact that I'm. I get those calls because that means they appreciate my opinion and they're always looking for an answer. And I don't give them an answer. What I tell them is ask a better question, and they're like well, what does that mean? Time frame, should I marry this person? I'm not sure I want to know, but, like the time has come. What I tell them is ask a better question and they're like well, what does that mean? Timeframe, Should I marry this person? I'm not sure I want to know, but like the time has come, we're going to marry. I'm like, okay, great, Hold on my man, let's break down the question.

26:27 I literally had this call a month ago, Christmas break. He's like I was like well, I want you to come up with 30 questions, 30 to 50 questions, just brainstorm. You're going to fill in a time frame how it makes you feel, how it makes someone else feel one. You need a time frame because it's you got to contain time. It's forever. It's too big. Second, how it makes you feel is important because you're getting energy. The second one, how it affects others, is important because we are human beings that are living in a network of community and if it's always about you, you're going to burn out. It's got to be in connection with other people and also that kind of gets us out of ourself and our narcissism whatever we do has an effect on other people.

27:05 - Chase (Host) Other person.

27:06 - Topaz (Guest) But the point is that if I do it for there like there's an energy, that comes back to me too and it's more sustainable. So I said just brainstorm, like what can I do for the next six months that makes me feel challenged and uncomfortable, such that I can be in a position to raise a family in the future? What can I do in the next year so that I can, you know, build the foundations financially for a family, that for a family in the future, so I can support my family? What can I do in the next year two weeks, whatever it is that makes me feel safe and comfortable, so that I can recuperate my energy, so that I can be more present for what's to come and for others or something, just 30 of them, dude.

27:54 - Chase (Host) I want to pause you right there because that's incredible and no doubt very helpful. But I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the listener and going like I can't even think of those questions. How can I even think of these questions? I'm just so stuck in thinking of a question. You want me to come up with 30 supporting questions.

28:11 - Topaz (Guest) You have a question. You want me to come up with 30 supporting questions. No, you just have 30. You have a slot Time frame. Makes you feel inspired? Just, you could break it up, do 30 different time frames year, month, week, six months, whatever. You could have a few repeats, okay. Okay, inspired, challenged, comfortable, scared, growing, happy, fulfilled, joyful, um, you know doing the unexpected. Okay, just fill those slots. Then here, how suppose my family, my friends, sub, you know, community, what what's in things that are important to me, like for you know, in, uh, social justice, or like, um, causes that are important to me, or like my block, my house, you know my friends, my wife, my best friends, coworkers. Okay, you look at those and then you can create these questions.

29:03 - Chase (Host) So that's beautiful. Right there. I want the listener again just wrap their head around. You just gave us a framework and this isn't anything that you just plucked out of thin air, even though you're literally writing it in there. We all have that and this is a great reminder for us that, in order to move forward, I think the fear of making a choice or taking an action or the wrong action comes from us having to come up with the right next step or the right question. But all these things are surrounding us. We all have these people. We all can access these emotions, we all have felt them. So just by putting it out there and then kind of just immediately associating to it, you have your 30 to 50 questions.

29:36 - Topaz (Guest) You look at them and you're like the one I want to answer right now is this one.

29:40 - Chase (Host) There we go.

29:42 - Topaz (Guest) There we go, okay. So your first question is should I get married? Then you do this exercise. You're like, ooh, this is the question I want, this is the one that I'm agency, that I'm inspired, that inspires me. This is my question I want to answer right now. What can I do for the next six months that challenges me emotionally, such that I can be in a position to have a full gauge relationship for marriage?

30:06 - Chase (Host) Oh, that's one of the what a more robust question.

30:07 - Topaz (Guest) Okay, then you go all right, and that's the question Should I marry this person? No, no, no, no. Instead you should do this oh okay, listen, we're not gonna get married, but I'm gonna go full-on for the next six months with you did, or, I'm sorry, I'm not ready and I'm gonna go, or you go. Another question you're like what can I do for the next year that I play full out, such that I know I can build, such that I'm building a family? And you look at that. You're like you know what. What I could do to play full out is marry that person, all right, yeah, so when you're stuck on a question, it's because you're not asking a quality question. Yeah, break down the question. Then the answer becomes obvious.

30:50 And here's the great thing about questions is you can always ask another one. Like, life is not. That's why you need a time frame, because you know we talk about like, getting married forever. That's like implicit and explicit. But like things change, we change and they say, like, if you get married, for instance, it's the practice of choosing yes every day, right, and not taking that for granted. It's a practice every day. So you know, if you're going to make that example of commitment. It's like you choose that and you're going to be conscientious. You can always ask different questions and have different answers, and that's part of life that, and you're going to be conscientious you can always ask different questions and have different answers, and that's part of life.

31:35 - Chase (Host) What do you think is a question you hear directly from your friends, or maybe just kind of you have been observing in, let's just say, america, or most people? What do you think is a question most people are asking?

31:46 - Topaz (Guest) that is doing them a disservice, okay the big one and is like, regardless of what you are, the big one is like, regardless of what you are on the political spectrum, is like how could they have voted for that person? How could they be so crazy to vote for that person? And it's literally what I hear on both sides, right, like, how could they be so crazy? All right, well, how could they be so crazy? So then the answer you're going to fetch are all the reasons why they're so crazy. Is that a bridge builder? No, is that bridge builder?

32:17 Closer Set is like okay, how do we reshape the question? How do we shape? Because what are the answers we want to fetch? That's why the question is the answer, because the answers you get are shaped by the question. So if you shape a different question, you'll get different answers. So, if you ask the question, what is it that I'm misunderstanding about their journey that puts them in a position to support that candidate, then you're looking at what you're misunderstanding. Or what is it that they've experienced that puts them in a position that makes them feel that's the right way forward? Okay, then let me see way forward. Okay, then let me see you're fetching things that like we, that's you know. It's when you say why is it? Why are they so crazy? You're already pushing them away, you're not, you're not inviting them in, you're not looking for the common? What are the values we share, that where we would see the same things? And why are they seeing a difference than I am?

33:14 - Chase (Host) I have an idea. I'm thinking of some questions that I've asked of myself and that I think a lot of people ask themselves One why are they more successful than I am? Okay, how should I restate that question?

33:30 - Topaz (Guest) Mm-hmm, All right. So then the question is what is it that you want to get from that answer? What's the answer you want to?

33:34 - Chase (Host) get. So if I'm asking why are they more successful than I am? I want more success. You want more success Great.

33:43 - Topaz (Guest) What can I do in the next three months?

33:47 - Chase (Host) two months. So you go to the time first.

33:50 - Topaz (Guest) I think it's good to quantify months, so you go to the time first. I want to quantify. I just because I think it's good to quantify, like, okay, you know, or you could. Just, I mean me, most of me is like, instead of making like why they're more successful, what can I learn from them? What can I copy from them? What is it about them that inspires me to be more successful? What pattern do I see them do that, I think, puts them in a position for success that I can replicate.

34:14 - Chase (Host) What steps have they taken? What habits do they have? What resources do we have?

34:19 - Topaz (Guest) But like what resource? They might have resources you don't have. So you might be like well, that guy's comes from a trust fund. He's got, of course he's got money. You could do it. That's not going to help you, you know, but you could be like I'm just saying that's an answer, that like you read resources. Then again it's like but like you want to shape the question, it's like so that it gives you empowerment and agency. So like, what can I learn from them? What are they doing right that I could do right too? That would help me. Beautiful, right, beautiful, yeah, boom. Because that question why are other people more successful? Yeah, that is sending the dog to get an answer. And once you're more successful with that guy, guess what the dog is going to do?

34:56 - Chase (Host) It's going to go find another guy who's more successful than you and that's a never-ending pit of despair, it's never-ending and, to your point earlier, it gets us out of the comparison and I think if we stay in comparison we're never going to move forward.

35:09 - Topaz (Guest) But the answers that that question fetches, you are not going to empower you, they're going to disempower you yeah they're not going to give you something to climb, to get out and like do something with. Instead, you want that stick. The answer to come back there's like oh, I can use this stick to improve the situation I have. So I'm expressing more of myself, you know, or living more of the life that I want to live. That envision I got another one that I want to live, that I envision.

35:30 - Chase (Host) All right, I got another one. Why do they always cheat on me, oh?

35:35 - Topaz (Guest) that's going to put you such in a hole, right? Because where's that thing? Why do they always cheat on me? Long list of like because this da da da. Instead, what am I going to take into the next relationship so that I don't repeat the same scenario here? Why? What's the lesson? What's the lesson in their cheating for me? Oh wait, hold on a sec.

36:07 no, wait, wait hold on it's more like because that could go down. It's more like like where is the blind spot here for me and how can I carry that into my next relationship? So I don't repeat the same blind spot, right?

36:30 - Chase (Host) That's just a big entire world shift.

36:33 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, because as soon as you go, why do you always cheat on me? Guess what? You're just going to look for those answers, so you'll look for the other partners that are going to have the same dynamic. You're looking for it. A huge shift for me, and this comes from parents.

36:46 Being a child of divorced parents, throughout my life, I was always looking for how things would end. That was a profound question. It's like how's this going to end? I don't care if it was a relationship, a work relationship, a friendship, it was always. How's this going to end? I don't care if it was a relationship, a work relationship, a friendship, it was always how's this going to end? That was my question. Why and I read this in Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, which is a great book, which basically said kids who come from divorced families, they just know the show's going to end Because they're born and then the divorce happens.

37:16 They go to the corners of the stage, their parents take center stage, they're the whole center of attention. The whole family structure is destroyed and now, as a kid, you're just looking at the world like how is this going to end? It's going to go bad. It always goes bad. And I remember living in New York and a roommate and I just was mentioned something like, oh, no, it's going to go bad. I was like why? Well, because it always does he go bad. It's like why? Well, because it always does, he goes. No, it doesn't go bad.

37:42 And I just read the book I'm like realize, oh my god, this guy, his parents didn't get divorced, he doesn't have that question. He's like, yeah, you know. And I'm like, oh, isn't that beautiful. If you look, if you didn't even ask that question, because I'm asking that question, how's this going to end? So every, imagine, every work relationship, how they're going to screw me. How's this going to end bad? They're going to screw me. How is this going to end bad? Are they going to screw me? How is this going to go bad? Relationship, same thing. So if you go, why do they always cheat on me? You're looking for the cheating. You're looking. Instead, it's like, okay, what am I going to learn from this? What is the blind spot in here? What did I accept that put in a position for cheating that I won't in the next relationship, you know, just shape it. That's why the question is the answer.

38:23 - Chase (Host) Yeah, this is so good. I want to keep going, maybe one or two more. This is great. Why don't they open up as much to me as I do them?

38:36 - Topaz (Guest) Why don't they open up as much to me as I do them? And you're asking this of yourself, right?

38:45 - Chase (Host) I'm thinking, I'm putting myself in.

38:47 - Topaz (Guest) That's not a bad question in a relationship, you know, because you're like looking, and so I think that I don't think that's necessarily, I don't think that question would fetch you negative answers per se, like disempowering answers. I do think you can improve it slightly by just saying how can I create more of a space such that they can open up even more to me, maybe even similar to the amount that I'm opening to them? You know, how can? Um, what is in like, so that's an interesting, is like, and maybe is in like, so that's an interesting, it's like, and maybe it's in another introspective question, because that's a really nice introspective question, right, and I think that's worthwhile exploring. It's like what? Because then the answer you might fetch is like maybe they don't feel safe, maybe they feel like a judgment for me, maybe I'm asking at the wrong time, I'm not great, you know who knows, and so I think those questions fetch some good answers.

39:44 I think you could just improve it slightly, like by saying another one, that version that you could ask yourself is like why is that, why?

39:51 What is it about me that wants them to open up on the same level as I do? Please go back and say that again what, what, what is it in me that wants them to open up on the same depth and level that I do God, right, that's good and that could give you different answers. One is because I want to feel that sense of connection. Or maybe it's because, maybe secretly, I don't trust them unless they do open up. So maybe I have an issue with trust and I'm not actually letting them be who they are.

40:17 Maybe because I'm not recognizing that their language, love language, is not verbal, but actually it's action, and I'm not noticing the fact that they're cleaning up all the time and giving me massages with physical love, right? So you can ask that. So when you see a question, it's like how? That's why, for me, it's like how constructive is the question? I don't mean how well constructive it is, I'm saying how constructive in the sense of, in the sense that the answers it fetches are going to be constructive to your life, that you can actually do things with Right man.

40:46 - Chase (Host) That was really really good that that hit. I wonder how many other people are kind of like nodding their head right now. Listen to that.

40:53 - Topaz (Guest) If they made it this far cause probably.

40:58 - Chase (Host) But another point I've heard you talk about is this anchor of trust. And I think when we're especially, we're talking about well with ourselves, but especially in intimate relationships or just meaningful, deep relationships your friend, your co-worker, your family member, whatever um, and I'm kind of maybe paraphrasing your quote here, but you talk about how the greater the anchor of trust you have in your relationship, the greater the depths you can explore. Yeah, so then how, let's say, for argument's sake, let's go okay, maybe I've been nailing the questions, but for whatever reason, that anchor of trust is not there. Yeah, how can I develop an anchor of trust so that I can go explore deeper? That's a great question, that's a great quote. It's you man, no other, but it's a great question.

41:39 - Topaz (Guest) That's a great quote. It's you man. No, it's a great question. How do you develop more trust? I mean, we'll come.

41:50 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I was just saying cause that's also, I'll say it's also kind of making the assumption that if we're not getting the answers that we want to the questions we're asking of ourselves or of other people, and let's also say that we are making the assumption that we've done a better job of asking those questions. I kind of heard you say in that question earlier you know it's, there's not enough trust or any trust right.

42:10 - Topaz (Guest) So the first thing is you're saying you said if we're not getting the answers that we want to the questions we're asking, right, like you're, but does that mean you're not getting an answer?

42:20 Or you're not getting the answer you want, because the answer you want means you have an agenda. I was gonna say is there a difference? Yeah, there's a huge difference. If you're not getting an answer, that means that you're not getting a response. Okay, then maybe you're not playing tennis together, maybe you're not in conversation. That's a that's something to explore.

42:38 If you're not getting the answer you want which happens a lot in relationships, right, you have one person in a relationship who wants to go deeper, but they're not and they're not giving you the answers you want, well, that's because you have an agenda, and an agenda versus an intention. An agenda is where you end up. You want to end up at a certain answer. An intention is hey, I just want to ask a question and get any answer. I want to explore this. I want to ask you I want to have a conversation. An agenda is like I want this specific result, I want this specific answer. Now, when you create a space or conversation and you have an agenda and the other person feels it. They're not connecting you with their heart. They're protecting themselves with the head.

43:26 - Chase (Host) How many of us have shut down? We get that feeling. We know that.

43:31 - Topaz (Guest) You know that you feel like whoa, where are they coming from? What do they want? They want to get to hear why they want me to apologize, why. Now your head comes out, which is built to protect you, versus your heart is built to connect you. So that does not build a space that feels safe, and part of safety is there's trust, because you're not articulating your intention. Where we begin, you're telling me where you want to end up and I don't necessarily know if I want to end up there. I don't trust if I want to get there. So hold on a sec. So I gave you the formula Quality life experience means quality relationships. Well, quality relationships, quality conversations. All right, what's that Space? Well-constructed questions.

44:14 Now, when you talk about this trust, it's about the space. How do I create a space where I feel safe, such that I can be uncomfortable? Because it's not confused. Safety and comfort, they're not the same thing. You can be safe and you can be uncomfortable. It's okay. Oftentimes people feel uncomfortable. They go I'm not safe. I'm like maybe, but maybe not. Let's look at that. So what makes it safe? You got to trust that we're in the same space in terms of where we're going, what our maybe underlying values are. I trust that you have my benefit in mind as I have yours. Like I'm not here to stab you in the back. You're not here to stab me in the back, regardless of whether it's your lover, your business partner, your friend, it's like there's no malevolence here, okay. Your business partner, your friend, it's like there's no malevolence here, okay.

44:59 Now, part of that is when we come to conversation. Is there a clear intention? Because we're starting from the same spot. If I'm already at the end of the journey and I want you to get here, then you're like wait, wait, wait. How do you get here? Wait, wait, wait. You're like wait, how? Now? You're not stepping forward. You're like wait, what are we talking about here? You want to have this conversation because you want me to apologize to you. Why am I apologizing? Where is this coming from? Or you want me to say right. Or you want me to say to agree to your decision, but I'm not there yet. Hold on. If instead, you say, hey, I'm coming in with the intention and articulate, which is that we need to have a conversation about it. So now we're like oh, we're in the starting. That's a much more neutral plane. We're starting the same space Great.

45:44 And also you want to create the space. And the space is about intention, but it's also about boundaries. Boundaries another word for boundaries are rules. Why? Because certain things happen in certain places and you outline that with the boundaries, with the rules. What I mean by that is Chase, you don't sleep in the kitchen and you don't cook in the bedroom. You know, when you go to the bedroom there's like the space is built for certain things, the kitchen is built for certain things. You know what is permissible in the kitchen, like permissible what is expected of you, what you could do, right, what you're expecting of the space and what the space expects of you in the kitchen bedroom, different. How often do we express that in the home of our relationships, whether it's your lover, your partner, your coworker, right, your friend. So you say, hey, this is what's expected. I can give a very simple example of that like in the workspace, you want yeah, yeah great, Like just about the space.

46:48 Like sometimes you have a meeting at work and the person running the meeting is talking. And how many times you go to a meeting where everyone's just brainstorming and no decisions are made and then you leave going. What the fuck was that about?

47:00 - Chase (Host) that was another meeting.

47:00 - Topaz (Guest) That could have been an email it could be like what was that for? It's like well, because we didn't set the expectations. And if the leader says, listen, guys, this meeting, or someone on the team goes, hey, what kind of meeting is this? Let's be clear. All right, we're all in the kitchen, which means we're brainstorming, we're cooking up whatever it is. You're like this is a brainstorming meeting, which means we're brainstorming, we're cooking up a story, whatever it is. You're like this is a brainstorming meeting, which means we're going to brainstorm. You can throw out bad ideas, because bad ideas could lead to a mediocre idea could lead to a great idea. Yes, and energy. Okay, that's what we're doing. And at the end of this meeting, none of us are expecting a answer, a result, because we're brainstorming. So then, no one's pissed. So then, no one's pissed, they're not wasting their time. I get what this meeting is about because it was articulated the intention Versus another meeting you have with like, hey, this is, I'm talking about what we do in our company.

47:45 My team asked me what kind of meeting is this? This is a system analysis meeting, which is I'm getting info, collecting data and analyzing something. So in this meeting, I'm just going to ask questions. I don't want direct answers how much, what? So in this meeting I'm just going to ask questions. I don't want direct answers how much, what happened? What do you thought? Cool, I'm not asking for your opinion, I'm not asking for ideas. You know that, so you're not pissed. Why, every time I meet with Topaz he's not asking me for my opinion. He doesn't want my creativity. No, no, in this meeting I don't, and you know that. Why I'm not asking for a brainstorming idea? Because it's not that kind of meeting. So what kind of conversation are we having? That's part of the space. When you want a road trip, a road trip is great. Why? Because we're kind of in a closed space, not a lot of other distractions. You have a nice conversation. At some point you're done listening to podcasts or audio and, like you, fall into a convo, you're on a five-hour drive. Why? Because you're in a certain space. You made the container for it, you built a container for it.

48:45 I mean, I remember living in New York and sometimes it's crazy and noise, and one of the only places I could find solace and quietness was in church. And I'm not a Catholic, I'm not a Christian, I don't go to church, but I could go there and find solace and quietness. Why? Because in church it's a quiet place. People don't come running and yelling in it. I'm talking about outside of service. You know it's open all the time.

49:07 You go down on Mott Street there's a beautiful church, gorgeous quiet and you can walk in any time, just sit down and just like find a moment of quiet and peace and like meditate in space. Why? Because that quiet and peace and like meditate in space. Why because that's what's expected of that space. You're not expected to walk in and yell and flash photography and like, no, this is church, right, like there's certain spaces that we do certain things.

49:30 So in a relationship, why is a fireplace great? Why is it great to have like a chair that looks at the sunset and you kind of sit there two, three times a week if you can, or every night. You have pizza night every sunday. You and your wife know, hey, sunday afternoon we've done all the stuff you've prepared, you have eaten your calories. You know this. Like we're gonna watch a movie. What's expected? We're gonna chill and it's oh cool for you not to talk her to talk.

49:58 You guys do like it's a space.

50:00 You've created a container, curated, so we can create those containers.

50:05 You're going to talk to your family member at some point, maybe off of your thing from last year. One very important thing, if you ever do speak to them, is that you build a container in which to have the conversation in, so you find the space. We're not going to look at the phones and you've got to clearly articulate the intention, not that you want a certain result from that person. The intention hey, I want to create this moment for us to have a convo, just to explore. I don't know where we'll get to, but to know that this is what happened to me. I just want to create the space because for me it's important that we have this relationship or from maybe not our relationship, but for me I need closing to that. I just want to create the space for us to have this moment and then you can ask questions within that. But it's important to create the space for things, yeah, because that creates also a level of trust, because they're safe safe to be uncomfortable, safe to be, safe to be uncomfortable.

50:59 - Chase (Host) Safe to be uncomfortable, safe to be uncomfortable yeah, that's vital, that's a long riff, I'm sorry.

51:07 No, this is so good, thank you. What comes up for me as well in all this is curiosity. Yeah, and uh, I think a lot of us don't have as much curiosity as we once did. Yeah, I think it's something that kind of goes by the wayside as we age or mature, or just leave certain, you know again to your point containers or homes and jobs, and we grow up, right, and I think curiosity gets squandered, sure, so what role does curiosity play in developing these good questions, and how do we get back to it if we're not there?

51:41 - Topaz (Guest) So, in the framework of creating a safe space where you articulate your intention, oftentimes you're like fuck the intention, I'm pissed. I want an answer. You're pissed, you want to think you have an agenda. So you got to pause, you got to tap into your curiosity so that you can find what your intention is Like. I really want this person. I don't know why they did this. We're family I'm not talking about. I have this to myself too, right. I mean, this happened to me last year.

52:05 - Chase (Host) I think a lot of people can relate.

52:06 - Topaz (Guest) You know a family member says something, does something, really rattles your cage, yeah, and they're like, okay, I want them to see the light, I want them to understand, I want them to apologize, whatever. It's like, okay, that's not really going to get us there. Let me tap into my curiosity. Why am I so hurt? Why do they do that behavior when we're kind of family, when we're coworkers, when I thought we, you know, had been on the same journey? Let me tap into my curiosity about my own pain, or my own curiosity about them, and shape the intention from that space. The curiosity is the kind of the fuel that can help you get to finding what your intention is from a curious place versus a place of like having an agenda, yeah Right, having a political agenda or whatever, any kind of agenda that you want a certain result so if someone again, I'm just trying to quantify this for the listener if they're struggling with getting to an intention and getting away from an agenda, yeah, like I don't have an intention, what right?

53:12 - Chase (Host) what is the right? You know air quote here right intention for this. You're saying lean into curiosity to develop that intention.

53:18 - Topaz (Guest) Yes, okay to find that, because then you can. There's a plate when you're curious, you don't know the answer. Ah right, that's yes, when you're curious you don't. If you know the answer, you're not curious, you're like that.

53:31 So find the curiosity, because then you're in a place of openness, because you're like I don't know the answer, and it's from there that you articulate your intention, because when I come to you I say, hey, chase, I don't know the answer, I'm curious. We have these things, misunderstanding, hurt, but I'm curious, how did this come? Then? We're starting from the same point Versus hey, man, I want this resolved for me. You're like well, I didn't get there yet, I'm not there, we're in different spots. So in order for us to be, we have to begin from the same point. So to find the intention in which we can begin together is curiosity. And the other thing to mention about curiosity, which is such a big word and people are using, at least in my field, is that people are saying well, you know, some are curious, some are more than others. I think we're all curious, but we may be curious about different things. Some people are curious, like you know, in podcasts.

54:24 Maybe someone's curious about tactical solutions for how to improve your life. Someone else is interested in your life experience. Some people are interested in like how to solve problems. Like we're all curious about different things and just so feed your own curiosity and your curiosity doesn't have to be someone else's curiosity. That's where I think we're giving like one term for everything. It's like wait, hold on. Like you know what are you curious about and like own the thing you're curious about. Right, we are. There's many curious, many curiosities, not just one you know I'm saying yeah, yeah, there, I there.

55:01 - Chase (Host) I mean, think about go back to when you were a child. I mean I maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I was curious about a lot of things. The world is just one big curious place and of course, as we age and we grow up, we learn and we know we have certain truths. So the curiosity goes away a little bit, but that doesn't mean like it as a whole should go away, right? But I think a lot of us are detached from curiosity in general in our day-to-day life.

55:27 - Topaz (Guest) You know you're a kid. You grow up and you're like, oh, the world's amazing. And then over time you're like I'm really curious about football, science and this and I couldn't care less about math and philosophy and water polo, don't care, but I love football. Okay, then you get older and you're like maybe your curiosities get you know, maybe you find the answer to some of your curiosities and new ones perk up. Maybe you want to like discover. You know what. I need a new curiosity, I need a new hobby, I need a new thing. Where is that thing? You got to fuel that fire, the ember on it. Don't let the fire go out.

55:56 - Chase (Host) How would you recommend someone to to kind of kickstart that flame again If they're going, they're hearing this and going. You know what. I don't know what I'm curious about. I don't remember the last time I was curious about anything, or this was my last curiosity that turned into just a tangible thing. How do we start?

56:12 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, so the scope of, in my opinion, what comes up for me I see I hear that question in two contexts one is like your personal hobbies or things that you might be interested in. The other one is curiosity of someone else. So the one that turns your own personal life, I would say, if you really have no idea, like you have no little inkling, there's not even a thread to pull then I would go to the bookstore and I would walk down a random thing and see what pops out and open a random page, so again going back to put yourself in the right container find something that puts you in exposure to many different things and see what life presents you and just try to find that thread there You're like interests and pull the thread and see where it leads you in terms of relationship Cause you're like I've been with this person 25 years.

57:01 I mean when the book came out people were like Topaz, I know everything about my husband.

57:04 I've been with him for 25 years. I know how he's going to answer. I'm like wait, hold on, you haven't changed in 25 years. You haven't changed in 25? You met when you were this and now you have your parents, who are your parents of kids who are in high school. You haven't changed. You're telling me you know this response, like no, yeah, I disagree, right, you've lost.

57:28 So how do you create curiosity? Is ask different questions, ask different questions. Like I really love it when I ask questions and hopefully it'll happen to you this weekend with may is that there'll be a question, and hopefully a few, where you'll have to pause because you haven't explored that, like what you know, you haven't explored that question before and you're like whoa, okay, let me find again. The dog's gonna find the faithful answer that question. You're like whoa, let me find the answer, but I've never explored that one.

57:54 So like great, and now you're in a space because you don't know the answer. You're curious, ah, and I'm seeing a new side of you, because I've never seen this side of you, never had that curiosity. So a way to spark the curiosity in the relationship is a acknowledge the fact that we have changed. It's not just in order to make ourselves safe. We try to make ourselves comfortable, which means I try to know you so that you don't fall outside the box. So, true, and we have to make ourselves comfortable, which means I try to know you so that you don't fall outside the box.

58:21 So true and we have to fight against that. And the way to help that is by posing a question, because your mind's going to fetch that answer, that like forces you to like oh wait, oh now I'm a little uncomfortable. I'm safe, I'm in this space, but a little uncomfortable. Great, I'm going to learn something.

58:44 - Chase (Host) I'm really curious to see how this experience is going to go down this weekend, because May and I both love getting uncomfortable and we both really enjoy being proven wrong when we have an expectation and we're like, ah, damn, got me. So I'm really excited for this experience. Excuse me, I want to ask one more thing around curiosity. Yeah, uh, actually this quote that I pulled from are you familiar with rick rubin? Sure he had a book that came out.

59:07 I guess, yeah, the creative creative act incredible book, highly recommend actually. I love the audible it kind of reads as this meditation with.

59:14 - Topaz (Guest) Like the he's got a great voice. Oh it's incredible.

59:16 - Chase (Host) It's incredible. I would love to sit down with him one day, but um, this quote stood out to me linking to curiosity.

59:23 - Topaz (Guest) I want to get your take on it look for what you notice, but no one else sees yeah, um, the way I interpret that is what's obvious to you may not be obvious to everyone else. And that's like the. It's kind of the flip of that is like that saying, okay, what's obvious to you may not be obvious to everyone else, and that's where your value lies. That's a big learning, because it may be obvious to you. And when it's obvious to you, you're like this is obvious, I'm not going to talk. So if it's obvious to me, you assume, well, it's obvious to everyone else. Because it's obvious, sure, yeah. And then when you realize actually it's not obvious to everyone else, that's where your value lies, Because it's obvious to you. And therefore you're like oh, let me show that to the rest.

01:00:20 What's obvious to me that's not to everyone else, let me present that to them, right, so that it becomes obvious to them. And that's where your value is to them. Your community, you are sharing your life experiences and your conversations with people and you are seeing certain things that you're drawing out in our company, drawing out because you're like wait, wait, this is great, this is great, this is valuable, it's obvious, it's valuable to you. And you're like let me draw that out so that I make what's obvious to me, obvious to them and there's value there. He's saying basically the same thing, like look for the thing that no one else does. I'm saying don't deny the fact that what's obvious to you may not be that someone else and that's where your value is Offer that I remember does it make sense.

01:01:00 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:00 - Topaz (Guest) And I'm like I mean, look, I'm 48. I'm about to be 49. It's taken me a long time and I, you know my 20s and 30s. There are many things that are obvious to me Not obvious, but I thought were obvious and I didn't talk about them. And here I am talking about things that are obvious to me but people are going oh, there's value there and that's where I'm learning this last year, like, it's obvious to me, maybe not be obvious, everyone is. That's where my value lies. So offer that.

01:01:26 I remember seeing. It was a telluride, you know, I was a filmmaker for many years and I was a telluride. And there was Steve McQueen who out blitz, but he was talking about hunger or shame, one of those two movies. Shame, that's a michael fassbender movie, yeah, yeah, the second one. He had hunger first, then shame, shame, yeah, um, and someone asked him like why do you make this movie? First it was about hunger, and then you know the political story of margaret thatcher, time and the fasting the guy dies. And then, um, now about shame, sexual addiction, like why do you that he goes? Well, to me it was obvious and I remember going.

01:02:01 - Chase (Host) What does he mean? Obvious, what is like wait yeah it's obvious to him.

01:02:05 - Topaz (Guest) So he I was like, oh wait, so he sees the world through certain lens. That's obvious to him and it's not obvious to us. And yet he made this beautiful film that like reveals something to us. And that was an anchor point in me. And now, now this year, I realized oh wait, that's what he meant.

01:02:23 - Chase (Host) I want to piggyback off of that. I think it's incredible nugget right there that what's curious or, excuse me, what I can't talk. Let me go back. So when we're looking for what you notice but no one else sees, you're saying that is our value. But let's go back to we're talking about the beginning and go, let's ask the question.

01:02:41 - Topaz (Guest) The difference there is that he's like giving you go looking for what's what other people don't notice what you see, other people don't and what I'm saying is that sometimes it's not that far away, right, it's like. Right, like this is an act of let me go discover what it is. I gotta go find the thing that no one else sees. But I see was like what I'm saying is, sometimes it's not so far away, it's actually right in front of you. It's what's obvious to you but not to everyone else it's a flip, yeah.

01:03:05 - Chase (Host) So then I'm going to ask the question why isn't this obvious to everyone else? When you say this, what do you mean? So, uh, whatever the thing is, you know we're asking earlier. You know why. Why do they keep cheating on me, kind of thing? So if we want to take the same starting point of what is obvious to me is my value, could we also then ask what the question? You know, why doesn't everyone else see this? Why isn't this obvious for them?

01:03:31 - Topaz (Guest) that's that's like. I think that's an impossible question to answer, right, because there's so many who's them and how and like there's gonna be so many other variables, too many variables like what's why is it not obvious?

01:03:42 that would be a huge. Why is it obvious to you, like, why is it obvious to me? About this human connection, like, why did it work? Well, one thing I spent the last 11 years witnessing these conversations. Trial and error of watching people talk that's, that's what most of me is like. But then what led me to a place that, like, even put me in a position to want to watch them and pose these questions? Well, because I was always curious and question where did that come from? Maybe my divorce? Or looking for why my parents didn't get along? So that put me in a position to, like, explore something and and like I, I don't know, I've yeah then you have to break down the flip side of like why is it obvious to everyone else?

01:04:21 It's like well, god knows, everyone's got their own story. So if you've got a few days, maybe go down the route. Or like some, you know some psychedelics, you want to crack that code. You take the psychedelic, you'll find the answer.

01:04:30 - Chase (Host) Hey man, I'm going to get a vote for that one every time, personally speaking. Um, actually speaking of quick sidebar, yeah, when we were I think this was over christmas yeah, we went to lax and we were boarding, we were checking in, had check a bag and, uh, I shit you not guess who's in front of me at the ticket line christopher nolan really yeah well, I've. I've been in la for six years now almost that's why it's very private.

01:04:55 - Topaz (Guest) He's a very private guy.

01:04:56 - Chase (Host) That was the. I've never been more starstruck in my entire life, just because I love every single one of his movies.

01:05:02 - Topaz (Guest) I hope you didn't talk to him.

01:05:03 - Chase (Host) No, no, no, no. You left him alone. It took every fiber of my being to pass. I want to, just I want at least shake his hand. I was like Mr Nolan love your movies, thank you, that guy. Don't be that guy, don't be that guy. Also, I was like damn, christopher nolan's flying commercial still all right impressive he had two assistants with him.

01:05:22 But uh, yeah, I was like holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. And I told may? I was like look, look, look, look, it's mr interstellar, all the shit. But uh, yeah, there's just no, no question there, but just a comment, speaking of all the christopher nolan things. Um, all right, kind of wrapping up here, as this is coming out, we we're around Valentine's day, you know, february 2025. And I think a lot of people are thinking some, maybe some good questions. They're feeling some kind of way or at least this is the time of year where a lot of us might just have other people, our relationships, on our mind. What can we do different this Valentine's day to really surprise ourselves?

01:05:58 and to surprise our partner, yeah the keyword.

01:06:05 - Topaz (Guest) There is different keyword is you want the pause. You want to. You know there was research done about like what keeps couples together and what they found is when they do new activities together, and they could be activities because you just have new conversations. So, whatever you do, don't do something different. Create that pause, and the pause is the searching for the connecting to different ideas or thoughts. Or if you've never, you know, do something different, go to a different place, take a different route, ask a different question, do it at a different time. Create something where you're both starting from the same place, exploring something new together do that, love it, love it cannot just do that.

01:06:57 - Chase (Host) Everyone do that. What is one thing you think most people continue to do on valentine's day that they think is helping their intimate relationships, but it is actually not moving the needle as much as they think.

01:07:09 - Topaz (Guest) Well, I mean it's like a cliche Like I would think it. Unfortunately, it's the same thing of everything. It's buying the chocolates. It's like the cliche thing that we're sold and so we're asking ourselves the questions that were sold by the consumers you know machine so that we buy their products.

01:07:28 - Chase (Host) Kind of goes back to the beginning. Whose question is this? Whose?

01:07:30 - Topaz (Guest) question is this so what does Valentine's mean to you? Like? What if you were like look, I'm going to take Valentine's as fuck it. I'm going to see it through the lens of I'm a soul living in this body, having this adventure. I'm going to take this day as a moment of intermission from the rest of life to connect with this other soul and just share trail notes of our lives, like or or. We're together. I know we're together forever. We're having a family.

01:08:00 And I'm going to take this moment of Valentine's as souls, not as like parents, but two souls who are having these human experiences to market today so that next year we can do something else that markets it too. And we're going to make like the benchmarks, or like the trail knows a trail, but like leave a trail behind in our lives so that we can always like park back to these moments and share these special moments that encapsulates our love or encapsulates our soul journey, like. By the way, those are all answers to a different question. It's like how do I, what can I make Valentine really mean to me, what is really important to me in my relationship with people, and how can I use this moment to market it, to demarket it right?

01:08:49 - Chase (Host) Thank you for those answers and I hope people have wrapped their head around in this podcast what it means to be curious, what it means to ask a question and whose question am I asking. And the biggest thing for me to sit out was the whole aspect of intention versus agenda. And I think that's where a lot of us get stuck in asking any question but also getting frustrated with I feel like I'm just asking the same question over and over and over or you're just asking a bajillion questions. You're not getting any answers. You know, take a step back. What is the intention or what is the agenda? Is this the appropriate container for the agenda or is it the container for the intention?

01:09:33 - Topaz (Guest) Right, so helpful.

01:09:36 - Chase (Host) So, baz, I want to ask my last question, to bring it back home to the theme of Ever Forward. Excuse me, and I'm actually. I want to ask you the question now, but you've been asked this before ever forward what does it mean to you now, here, 2025, those two words?

01:09:52 - Topaz (Guest) what does it mean? Yeah, because last year I gave an answer which I remember, um. Now this year I've had three friends die. This year there's been a lot of deaths this past year and so, from the current standpoint that I'm experiencing life, I see Everford as like. I'm looking at a river and it doesn't stop flowing, like it doesn't stop flowing. And it doesn't stop flowing, like it doesn't stop flowing, and some you know just the river, just like, and so it's ever forward, it's ever streaming, it's ever flowing, it doesn't stop. And sometimes you know you're with a group of people, sometimes people get on, sometimes people get off, you don't see them again, but that stream is always. The river is always flowing, so it's always going forward. It's always going no matter what, even if you're here or not, even if they're there or not, it's, it's always going. So what are we doing while we're together?

01:11:06 - Chase (Host) I really liked that interpretation. I haven't heard a lot like that of taking yourself out of it. You know, like this is how I keep moving forward, this is how you know, no matter what we figure it out. But you know it's this, this collective, like it, the universe, we all are just moving forward, whether we like it or not.

01:11:26 - Topaz (Guest) I mean, I started this year with a death of I started this year with a death and I ended this year with a death and at the funeral I was in Sweden. I flew to Sweden for three days because my one of my best friends mom, mothers who was also close to me, obviously and I had this experience where I just was like we're on a spaceship called Earth and I know you, but it really felt like a spaceship, just flying through space and it's like you're on a spaceship and sometimes people get on and sometimes people get off. You know, a baby's born, you meet somebody, they get on and then one day they die or they disappear and they're off. That's it. The spaceship doesn't stop moving. The stream, the river, doesn't stop flowing. So what are we doing when we're together on the spaceship? What spaces are we creating? What experiences are we sharing? What convos are we sharing? You know what moments are we?

01:12:25 - Chase (Host) dropping into Sounds like the Cliff Notes for the next chris, for nolan movie interstellar too. God, I wish we could get interstellar too. But um to a best man, it's always good to see you, yeah, and I also want to give you a shout out, you, you introduced me to another great guy here in la shout out aaron scott lazar um another powerful conversation. Did you get my text when I heard that? Message yeah, yeah, that or my voice, like you sent Another great guy here in LA. Shout out, aaron Scott Lazar. Another powerful conversation.

01:12:47 - Topaz (Guest) Did you get my text when I heard that message?

01:12:49 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, that or my voice, like. You sent me a message about the interview. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:55 - Topaz (Guest) Watch that podcast. That's one of the top notch podcasts. I've heard that he did, but also in general I've been listening. Check out that Aaron Lazar podcast was.

01:13:06 - Chase (Host) I don't know what number that is, I'll I'll link it down the show.

01:13:09 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, Link it. That thing was like that one was.

01:13:12 - Chase (Host) I cannot think of a more perfect, if that's a word that comes to mind. Just the nature of you know I shared. You know the backstory before it comes to my dad, passed away from ALS. Yeah, aaron is currently battling. He'll say he's winning, he is. He's fighting and defeating ALS.

01:13:32 - Topaz (Guest) It's just this incredible full circle moment that convo was so deep and profound and wonderful, both of you guys. He's challenging.

01:13:39 - Chase (Host) He's coming.

01:13:40 - Topaz (Guest) Sunday with both his sons.

01:13:42 - Chase (Host) No way Amazing. He's going to do the end with both his sons. He's been a great new homie. This is a reminder. I want to holler at him again and check in, but yeah, yeah, thank you.

01:13:53 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, of course.

01:13:54 - Chase (Host) Well, Tobias, where can my audience go to connect with you and learn more about what you got going on? Theskindeepcom and all our socials are the Skin Deep, so that's talking about it earlier, but, um, I'm gonna be a part of my wife and I can be a part of you're, you're gonna have a video out on our youtube channel and yeah, talking all that.

01:14:12 - Topaz (Guest) Yeah, do you know anything about that yet? Or when it's released yeah I mean it's gonna go with a lot of production but yeah, yeah, I don't know when it's coming out, but I'm sure you'll let everyone know, yeah absolutely.

01:14:18 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I'm so stoked and honored to be part of this project. It's a beautiful experience and, uh, I'm gonna get my tissues ready. I'm sure we're going to have some feelings pouring out, but also, I'm going to have an eight and a half month pregnant wife. It's going to be awesome, super unique, super unique. We love this stuff. Yeah, thanks, man, appreciate you. Thank you, man. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com