EFR 854: How to FIX Your Relationship to Money in 2025, Generate WEALTH and Break MINDSET Blocks to Have Money Flow Like CRAZY with Elizabeth Husserl

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production. Why are we intimidated by money?

00:05 - Elizabeth (Guest) Great question. We're intimidated by money because so much of my work is embodying wealth, like. How does wealth feel like? Is it empty calories that we're consuming, things that we're buying that we're like, oh, that didn't actually satisfy anything. Or is it really fulfilling and touching some of the needs that we have as humans, even as kids Curiosity, learning, participation, understanding, like we've all been there Wasteful spending. We know what it feels like sometimes because it like caught our attention. But then if you pause and take a moment, then you're like oh, what am I spending this for? Because consumption neutral, act Like there's nothing bad with consumption.

00:41 But we can be better change makers, and you know we can. We can catalyze those decisions better for us to feel wealthy right and actually be more mindful with our money and what impact it has, than to follow those impulses. There should be no one that stands between you and your relationship to money. And then we start to put it all on the table. And then I tell couples this is the most important thing. To put it all on the table. And then I tell couples this is the most important thing. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Husserl. Author, financial advisor and wealth manager and welcome to EverForward Radio.

01:14 - Chase (Host) What's up? Everforward Radio listeners, if you've been tuning in to this show for any period of time, you know that I've been working on my health and wellness for years and care a lot about finding the right supplements that are in alignment with my personal needs. That's why I was so excited when I found SUBCO. It's a new app for managing your supplement stack. It analyzes my entire routine rates. It based on data that they have on over 180,000 products and gives me real tips on what's working and what's not. Subco showed me how my products rank across their trust score, quality rating system, how much I'm spending, and even gave me doctor built supplement plans that I could follow, should I choose to. I might find value personally in how I feel or the research that I do for every supplement, but I'm always curious is this the right amount or the right product for me? Would I see better results or feel better results if I move a few things around? And by just plugging my current stack of supplements into SUBCO, it built out this incredible score, evaluated everything, and I am dialed in in a much better way now thanks to SUPCO. Supco is currently in beta, but right here, exclusively you, my valued listener, can get a 100% free access today at supco slash everforward. That's S-U-P-P dot C-O, slash everforward Join me Definitely. Check it out now because it won't be free forever, linked for you, as always in the show notes today under episode resources. But again, that's SUPPco slash Everford to get the 100% free beta app access today.

03:05 Hello and welcome back to Everford Radio. I'm your host, chase Schooning, army veteran, wellness entrepreneur and today, financial wellness no, financial abundance student. Join me in. Welcoming guest Elizabeth Husserl. Elizabeth is the first female principal and co-founder of a comprehensive boutique wealth planning firm. She holds Series 6, 63, and 65 licenses. Now, I personally do not know what that means I am not in the financial world but I do know that she knows her stuff and she has the credentials to back it up, not to mention a bachelor's in economics from Tulane University and a master's in East-West psychology.

03:48 And that last part might be leaving you confusing, saying why is someone here talking about money holding a master's in psychology? Well, she's not only going to take us to school on best ways to wrap our heads around money so that we can build an abundant, wealthy life, but she's going to be walking us through behaviors, mannerisms, emotions, feelings, memories, the psychological aspect that is crucial to finally welcoming money to a seat at your table. You got to check out the video on this one. She joined me in studio here in LA and she walked me through an incredible exercise that you got to. Just you got to see to believe. I'll have it linked for you, as always, along with everything we talk about, including her book, the Power of Enough, down in the show notes under episode resources. But you can always subscribe to us on YouTube. Just search Ever Forward Radio or head to everforwardradiocom.

04:41 In today's episode and in Elizabeth's work, you're going to learn, through practical exercises, ways to uncover your financial DNA, revealing the inherited beliefs, behaviors and habits that shape your financial decisions, create a wealth mandala to redefine your relationship with money and finally design a life that honors your whole self, bringing vitality, purpose, lasting joy and money. Money, money, baby. This episode is going to reveal to you how your attitudes toward money shape your wellbeing, illuminating the ways that financial systems block you from achieving true contentment. Elizabeth is going to help you embrace wealth as a way of being that is grounded in purpose and your core values, rather than something to endlessly accumulate. Thank you, welcome to the show as an adult this is the beauty of being an adult, right? Like, oh, if I want something, I'll do it, or I'll buy it, or you know, maybe not that at liberty with certain choices, but you know, I really don't think about them. In the store and I see something and I want it, I'm like I'm going to buy it, but now maybe I should kind of take a lap.

05:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) Maybe I should go all right.

05:51 - Chase (Host) Where's this feeling coming from? Where do I feel it? What does it feel like? Do I need it? Do I want it? What application does it hold in my life? Is it the most financially sound choice I can make right now, or is it just an impulse?

06:02 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right, exactly. I mean, we all know what that feels like Like we've all been there, wasteful spending. We know what it feels like sometimes because it like caught our attention. But then if you pause and take a moment, then you're like, oh, what am I spending this for? Because consumption neutral, act Like there's nothing bad with consumption. But we can be better change makers and you know we can catalyze those decisions better for us to feel wealthy, right and actually be more mindful with our money and what impact it has than to follow those impulses.

06:32 And so it's the 90 second rule, right? I talk about that with emotions, emotions. Last 90 seconds, urges, last 90 seconds. So take the lap, count out the 90 seconds and be like where is that in my body? Did I forget about it? Well, that's interesting, is it kind of nagging? And I see where it would go in my house, like for me. I love candles. I'm like that would be a really amazing candle. And then I'm like, actually, you know what, that spot already has a candle, I don't need one right now. And then you just start having more agency with with money. No matter how much you have, you can always practice agency.

07:04 - Chase (Host) You say, quote most of us feel overwhelmed and intimidated by money, confused by the complexity and abstraction of building wealth, nagged by the sense that, even if we make a good living and have material things, we're lacking something. Why are we intimidated by money?

07:27 - Elizabeth (Guest) thing. Why are we intimidated by money? Great question. We're intimidated by money because money, one represents so much. It can often replace things in our relationship like trust and confidence, our sense of self-worth, and it's also used in really complex ways.

07:40 Right, I wear different hats, and if I'm talking about investment management and wealth advisory, there are so many different ways we can invest, save, earn, spend, loan, get credit, and each one of those requires I mean, it could take you down the rabbit hole of information, especially in this day and age, and so there's a complexity on trying to figure money out in our lives as we apply to financial planning, but there's also a complexity of wait a second, what does money say about me? And both of those are always present. I mean, we are in relationship with money every single day of our lives, and so it's one of these kind of like silent family members that is always there, often nagging in our ear, because it has an opinion and we don't sit down and have a conversation with it. And so a lot of what I talk about, chase, in my book, is there should be no one that stands between you and your relationship to money. No expert, no CPA, no wealth management firm, not me.

08:43 Like you, chase, or anyone that I'm talking to, you have to have your direct relationship to money. And then it's like you and your partner, right, you and your wife. You have your own relationship. You can go and get help. You know from friends, families, therapists, you know counselors, whatever you need, but you have to have your own relationship.

09:02 And I think by taking that step of understanding what comprises your relationship who am I in relationship to money, who is money in relationship to me we can start to calm the interference and from there be like okay, let me lift the head, what are the areas in my money life that I need more guidance, more clarity, that I'm ready to implement? And so it starts from a different place. Because if you just look at the world of money, it is so complex with information and opinions and perspectives, and it changes every day. I mean, there is never a day, unless the market is closed, that the stock market is flat. It's kind of like flatlining a heart right, it is up and down. And so you have to take a step back and know who you are and who your relationship to money, what it is, before you engage. If not, it's overwhelming.

09:51 - Chase (Host) Relationships, relationship, relationship, relationship I talk about that word a lot on the show and how it is present or absent in all areas of our wellness physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial. You know all the ways in which I say you know we can learn how to move forward in life and live a life ever forward. And I don't think people fully realize the power to which the relationship, their relationship to money, and how money is or is not present in their relationship, how money is or is not present in their relationship. What I mean by that is, at the beginning of this year, 2024, last year, 2024, my wife and I sat down and we've been married for eight years and we just then joined finances.

10:38 We had like a joint account for certain things, but we had other, you know, like other credit cards or other savings accounts and other checking things, but we had other, you know, like other credit cards or other savings accounts and other checking. And once we combined everything, everything. I have never been in such a more positive relationship with money and finances. Also, I have not been in a more abundance of finances and I'm just blown Like was this the thing that was blocking my financial freedom and really truly stepping into financial abundance this whole time. Why didn't I do this sooner? What is your take on couples keeping separate finances, or should they combine finances?

11:15 - Elizabeth (Guest) Well, I need to ask you a question before I answer that. What changed for you?

11:19 - Chase (Host) Oh, okay, well, let's go there. So for me, what I realized came unplugged was this old belief that if I share every aspect of my finances with particularly a female in my life, that means I'm going to be restricted, I'm going to not be able to do things that I want or buy things that I want. And I trace it all the way back to no shade here, mom, but my stepmom actually, when I was growing up, she this was my parents' rule. They took a fourth, I think, of all of my earnings.

11:58 I worked in their coffee houses, they rent some coffee houses, and they took all of that and put it into a savings account. And then, if anything I wanted, if I bought anything that was a hundred dollars or more, I had to get their permission first, and so I got in trouble a few times.

12:11 - Elizabeth (Guest) I would sneak and I bought.

12:12 - Chase (Host) I'll never forget this. I bought this DVD player.

12:15 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, I'm aging myself here a little bit. I bought a DVD player. Oh, I know what those are.

12:20 - Chase (Host) And it was on sale at Best Buy for, I think, like $110. Okay, and I snuck it into the house, I installed it into my room and then a couple weeks later she saw it. She made me take it back because it wasn't our agreement. And so it was at that moment that I learned that there's this woman in my life. She ran all the finances in the house. There's this woman in my life, and if I tell her everything about my financial situation, that means I'm not going to be able to do what I want with the money that I earned.

12:53 And it was in that moment that I we shared everything together, my wife and I, and she sat there with zero judgment. She's like okay, this is what's coming in, this is what's going out, this is what, how you want to spend your money, how I want to spend our money. And it became this collection of money and our money. And I had all this fear just gone and I told her I, I, I'm pretty sure I, I typical me. I got kind of emotional. I was like thank you, like thank you for not scolding me, thank you for just hearing me out and thank you for just allowing us to come together to create the same page on how we want to spend our money. Yeah, yeah, kind of a long winded story, but it was pretty deep and I think I'm not alone.

13:32 - Elizabeth (Guest) No, a hundred percent, Chase. What's your wife's name?

13:34 - Chase (Host) May.

13:35 - Elizabeth (Guest) May, may, thank you. That was a really that. That was. The core expression that she could have given you in that moment was the nonjudgmental stance of Chase let's bring our finances together. Let's not even let's not apply anything from the past and do it our way, and that's the key piece let's do it our way. And so I can't. I can't say that everyone should commingle, because if you're commingling with someone who doesn't offer that nonjudgmental stance or that desire to do it our way, then it's not going to feel that way Right.

14:06 In some cases, I've actually seen, like I've never seen, two people in relationship do money the exact same way. So I'll say that I get to work with money and couples and cashflow all day long and I love it, and there's no one right way of doing things. But the most important thing is that we start to have conversations and we always start with what lesson shaped you in the past? So, for example, you just gave us a great lesson. I also remember one of your podcasts. You talked about the four-year-old who associated money with confusion.

14:34 - Chase (Host) Yes. So you know kind of like core at what my parents were talking about when they split up Right, and so then I would ask May, what has you know influenced you when it comes to your money lessons?

14:44 - Elizabeth (Guest) And then we start to put it all on the table and then I tell couples, this is the most important thing, you can become each other's best money friend, right? Make him know that. Hey, you react to judgment and you react to potential restrictions that don't make sense to you. It was probably a pretty abstract a hundred dollar limit, you know, and then like and how did your mom know that that DVD costs one 10? I mean, that's what I was like, you know and so, and so I think part of it is coming to the table saying what shaped you around money, right? What serves you that you want to actually pass on to your kid, what doesn't serve you anymore that you're ready to digest and release. What are our new agreements, collectively, as a couple? And then if you can do that in your relationship, then great, that becomes the new playing ground.

15:31 If you realize, oh, we're too soon, we haven't had those conversations, I'll start to close down. If I commingle, then you're like okay, then it's not time to commingle. Or maybe we commingle certain assets, not all of them, right? So it's a lot of. It is the why, like what are we trying to accomplish? What has shaped us? What are the landmines that we need to be aware of so we don't step on them? And how do we cheer each other on to becoming your best money self, and I think you had a great experience with me around that, which is awesome.

16:02 - Chase (Host) I did. Thank you, baby. And uh, you know, as anyone may be struggling with, I hate to say these words, but you know that's. I think it's what it feels like. There's a certain level of of shame and, um, bashfulness and fear around, fully, quote coming clean about your financial situation. I think especially, especially, to a significant relationship in your life and, as you were describing, that, it kind of made me think about. Do you think, do you think, people are more hesitant to come clean about their finances and to step into that financial abundance mindset truly with their significant other other, because that relationship is not yet where it needs to be?

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19:16 - Elizabeth (Guest) That's a great question. I mean I would say both right, like they're parallel paths, one does not replace the other. So I really need to say that. I do want to say actually, one thing before I jump into the question. Chase, I cannot tell you.

19:29 It doesn't matter where people are on the wealth spectrum or financial spectrum. So many people feel shame around money and I really want to demystify and normalize that. Everyone comes in and shares one story around shame because, guess what? We're not being taught how to deal with money in our schools. We're not being taught how to be in relationship. I mean much like we aren't necessarily being taught you know, a couple skills at school, and so it's similar.

19:55 We've all created. You know, we've all had money failures and money mistakes and we don't talk enough about it as a culture. And if we did, then we would talk about our mistakes and just keep moving on in life, right? So I just really want to emphasize that it doesn't matter if I've been working with someone who's like drowning in debt or has multi-millions in the bank. There are always money shame stories that come up. I love my job because I get to talk about money all day long and I'm like, oh yeah, tell me about that and let's go down that. And it's just another human talking about their human experience in the lens of money, and so I think that's a great piece just to kind of normalize. So, coming back to, um, the overlap in relationships cause that's what I hear you asking, right, is that? Is it my entry point with my relationship to money? Is it around my relationship to my spouse, my partner, someone new I'm dating?

20:46 - Chase (Host) Yeah, because I just want to say sorry to interrupt, but just, I think, to hone in on my personal story more. Maybe someone can relate is, I think what really prompted my readiness to have that conversation with my wife was I, especially at that moment, had never felt so secure in our relationship Not to say that I wasn't before Right, we just reached this amazing point in our relationship to where I think this was the very last thing, right, that I was like feeling some kind of way about letting her in on Right, and it was at that moment when I go no Chase, you love her, she loves you. This is a very safe space and container. There's no way that you letting this wall down is going to be met with anything other than open arms, nonjudgmental arms.

21:34 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly, exactly, and so I think for you it was money. For some other person it could be at any other topic in their lives. But I think what I loved about it is that component around the secure attachment in your relationship, to be like, okay, I'm going to take a risk, that's what I'm hearing. You're taking emotional risk because there's something that you want to grow, you want to take that next step in your relationship to money, and it's pulling that wall down, having someone interact with the younger parts of yourself that didn't feel good when you had those limits, or the really, really young part of yourself that felt confused, right, seeing that scene of your parents you know, I can't remember if they were fighting about bills, but there was confusion around it and so, um, you're letting someone in to heal those parts of yourself, and I think I think that was. You said that this conversation with your wife started about eight years ago.

22:23 - Chase (Host) Um, it's we've been married at this point, eight years. So when?

22:27 - Elizabeth (Guest) did you start the conversation with with your wife around money?

22:29 - Chase (Host) This was about a year ago.

22:29 - Elizabeth (Guest) Okay and I don't know, no, you weren't pregnant then. Right, like um. But it's so important if people haven't done that and they are parents. It is so important that we have these conversations with our partners, our spouses or whoever we co-parent with, because if not, we're going to pass the exact same patterns onto our kids. And there's two things that I see, chase you either absorb and literally pass it on, or you reject because you're like I'm not going to do that, and you pass on almost the opposite pattern, which isn't necessarily always the healthy one, right, and so maybe you would have made I'm not saying you did this, but if you hadn't talked to me about it, you could have said well, I'm going to let my kid not have restraint, right, I don't want restraint. I know how that felt Go to target, buy what you want, and then you start teaching someone they don't have parameters.

23:19 - Chase (Host) Absolutely Right and that doesn't feel good.

23:23 I think you're so spot on, because that was around the time when we were getting much more serious about trying to get pregnant, and at that point I think anybody, everybody, is thinking future, right? I hope so. I only want the best for my children, my future family. You know what habits, what environment, what do's and don'ts am I passing off, passively or actively, to my family, to my household unit? And yeah, absolutely that began to really put me in the mindset of, okay, you know, I, we live an active lifestyle, we try to be healthy, we try to be happy and, you know, be of service. What are other areas of my life that my child is going to witness me doing or not doing? And yeah, you begin to think about behaviors that you have that you don't want to pass on, right? And yeah, I was like, oh, I don't want them to be restricted. Why don't I want them to be restricted? That's because I felt restricted.

24:15 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, I mean financial. Dna is real, Like epigenetics is a. It's a science that's talking about how we pass on stories in our genes.

24:22 - Chase (Host) I know this is a big part of your work financial DNA, or the ways that family and cultural beliefs shape money behaviors. While we're here, can we dive deeper please? I?

24:30 - Elizabeth (Guest) mean, that's why I wrote the book Chase right, I talk about my grandfather in the book. His name is Walter. He was from Austria. I called him Opa, which is grandfather in German. He had to leave Europe during the world war II. He was a Jewish and he emigrated into Columbia. He was trying to get to Argentina. There was no more visas, ended up in Columbia without a word of Spanish, with $50 in his pocket in Buenaventura, which is this little port on the on the border of Columbia, and made his way to Bogota and, you know, over five years figured out how to speak the language, became a CPA, worked with the expats community in Colombia, but he was shaped by scarcity. He had to leave it all and his story isn't unusual, I mean how? I mean we all know someone who comes through some story of war or persecution and you do feel that- my in-laws escaped the Iranian revolution.

25:24 Exactly, and so we all know. And that gets passed on in our bodies, right? And so my grandfather ended up making an amazing career for himself, you know, saved a ton of money in the bank but never felt secure, never felt wealthy, would not spend to buy new socks, even though my mom would be like, oh, walter, you have holes in your socks, it doesn't matter, right? There was this sense of I'm always preparing for World War III, and so that was passed on to my dad. My dad was a super successful physician professional. My mom was a therapist. I had plenty growing up. I never lacked, but there was still that feeling of scarcity and I think my dad did a great job of teaching me you know how to budget, how to advocate, like there's so many skills that I'm so grateful for that I use today.

26:13 But the feeling of scarcity didn't go away and I was like, huh, what is that? That is my question. If we have so much, why do we still feel poor? That is my question. If we have so much, why do we still feel poor? That is my question, right? It's, you know, and I and I and after I graduated from economics I spent two years living and working in Oaxaca, mexico, where it was the opposite there was a lot less material abundance, but there was, there was so much more spiritual and communal and emotional wealth and abundance.

26:45 I'm like, hmm, check that out. I don't think my work is here, I think my work is back in the States, right, where again we have so much access to material resources and yet we feel poor. What is that about? And so that's been my journey of exploring that question around scarcity and how do you embody wealth. You know we'll talk about kind of where the abundance mindset fits within that structure. But I wanted to give my daughter a clean slate and so I needed to do my work around scarcity and how I still embodied scarcity, so that I wouldn't pass it on to her. And I remember about a year ago I finished the book. I mean there's a whole process in publishing, but I finished writing the book and I went to a special place that I have in nature and I wrote a contract and I buried it and I said this stops here. I mean I get chills as I tell the story. I do not pass this on to my daughter, I will teach her a different way.

27:42 - Chase (Host) Wow, what was it like physically creating, physically pouring out those conscious and even subconscious thoughts, I'm sure? I'm assuming it probably turned into like a stream of just you know, these are the things that I wanted to write out and this is what's actually coming out. And then you know, looking at that and then putting it underground and going this stops here.

28:05 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah. So I would say it's not just thoughts, right, it's thoughts that make the paper, it's emotions that make the paper, they're feelings right, like I'm sure there was tears on that paper, and so it's cathartic. It's cathartic because there's a lot of things, too, that we can't figure our way out of right. And so, yes, I can create financial plans to ensure that my daughter won't experience financial scarcity, I can work through the psychological and emotional blocks that I have. And then there's also that element of surrendering and letting it go and trusting that there's a universe bigger than me that can also help untangle some of those energetic threads that hold us all. And that's the.

28:49 You know I I often I love to bury things when I'm like I've hit, I've hit the max of what I can do and I got other projects to focus on, and so I'm just going to give it back to the natural world.

29:01 And you know, tree, you're going to help me kind of untangle that. Or rain, you're gonna, like, dissolve the paper that's on it, just give. I mean, we recycle, I'm recycling it back into the universe. Beautiful, right, and I'm and I know it's still continuing. I mean you haven't asked me the question of ever forward yet, but that, if we're being propelled ever forward at multi levels in our lives, sometimes we're focusing on things and sometimes we're asking for external support, and so when I buried that contract and I said that does not continue to the next generation, but I have to finish the book and I have other things I need to focus on I gave it back to the universe. I said help me, continue to dissolve this, because I started that and it will be propelled ever forward into a different, a different destination that I trust will happen.

29:51 - Chase (Host) I love that. That's beautiful, that's so beautiful. You spent over two decades now exploring the intersection of economics and finance with spirituality and psychology. So if, quote, wealth is a state of being rather than a thing to accumulate, possess and hold, then how do we get into and stay in the right state of being?

30:16 - Elizabeth (Guest) That's a great question. I'm going to bring that question back to a simple concept, like one of the principles in the book is called the power of enough, and so let me define that because I think that will be helpful. So the power of enough is, um, an experience of embodied satiation that emerges right, that naturally arises when we digest and integrate, or digest and release. Notice there's a choice there, right, moments of meaning in our lives that naturally arise.

30:48 - Chase (Host) So they can digest and integrate versus digest and release.

30:51 - Elizabeth (Guest) And so, basically, what I want to say about that right is that every day gives us the opportunity for moments of meaning. Some of them are great, where I'm like oh my gosh, I was so inspired by that conversation, or I felt the sunshine on my skin, or I just landed a new project. I mean, there's moments that we just stop and say that was amazing. There's also moments that stop us in the track and be like that was a really hard conversation, that didn't feel good, right, or that idea totally tanked.

31:19 Both of these are moments of meaning, and so the more we stop and digest them by either integrating them into our experience of like, okay, that actually adds to my sense of wealth and well-being and knowing who I am or actively release them, that doesn't bring me anything.

31:38 So you know, for me, I literally sometimes just like touch the ground and say I don't need this anymore, I'm going to release it and I give it back and I keep going with my day. So that active, that active decision to integrate or release moments of meaning. And for me, chase, I literally tell people swallow like swallow and consume that moment of meaning. Right, you start to nourish and feel satiated, fulfilled in your body. Wow. So do you see that difference? Right, this is, and the mind has a role to play, like abundance mindset is like, okay, I'm going to use my mind to actively manifest what I want to bring, but the mind by itself can't do it. And that's where abundance mindset falls short for me, right, because I can think all my way there, but if my body is experiencing something different, I have a disconnect, we're disassociated.

32:29 - Chase (Host) We're not fully present. Isn't this also a trick for, I think, memory, if you want to really lock in? This experience incorporating as many senses as possible.

32:37 - Elizabeth (Guest) How many athletes use that guided visualization? But it's a guided visualization that you have to ground in your body so abundance, thinking and mindset ground in your body can start to really create experiences of wealth. But the whole point is that when you start to take the time to integrate or release and feel satiated, feel fulfilled right and there's ways I have practices that you can do it on a daily basis and start to track what are the ways that you feel fulfilled, then you're filling yourself up from the core. That's the power of enough. I mean, that's a human freaking right, that's a human right. Is the power of enough. Then I can turn towards the resources I have because we all have resources in some capacity and be like okay, what's the best use of my resources? From this place of feeling full, we make different decisions.

33:27 - Chase (Host) My friends, to everyone sending well wishes, thoughts, prayers to us here in Los Angeles. I appreciate that, thankfully, I am one that still has a roof over his head, but I personally know countless people that lost everything recently in these devastating wildfires, and one way that I was able to connect with my community and give back was by sourcing a clothing donation out of our studio here and just anything and everything extra that I had in terms of essentials, wellness supplies, hydration tools. I actually was able to connect with a local fire department and pass them off to the firemen and first responders that desperately need our help. Now, look, I can't be out there putting out the fire. I don't know how to reroute water for them. The one thing I do know is taking care of your body, and I was able to pass off cases of element sparkling electrolyte water and boxes and boxes of their electrolyte sachet packets that they could mix in. These men and women are truly exhausted, and I know that I have found profound value, day in, day out, for about five years now, by supplementing my daily wellness routine with Element electrolyte drink mix, and I hope that they are feeling a fraction of the relief and the recovery and reduced fatigue that I get when they're out there keeping my city safe. Now, if you'd like to try Element on your own, whether you're a first responder fireman or just daily person out there getting after it in the gym or just noticing maybe recovery is dragging a little bit, your brain fog is kicking in, muscle cramps, fatigue a lot of these symptoms can be reduced by proper rehydration through scientifically backed ratios of key electrolytes like found in Element. I'm talking sodium, potassium, magnesium, and right now they're still honoring their exclusive deal for Element Hot.

35:23 If you want to heat up your winter, let me turn you on to the Element Chocolate Medley. These are meant to be consumed hot, so put in water, hot cocoa, or I love adding the chocolate mint hot salt to my coffee. This is a tasty electrolyte drink that delivers more electrolytes without sugar or dodgy ingredients, and now, for a limited time, you can get a free variety pack of the chocolate medley with any purchase. It's here for a limited time, a no question to ask, refund policy and free shipping on all US orders. Join me and Element helping keep our first responders safe and rehydrated out there, and I would love for you to do the same.

36:01 Head to drinkelementcom. Slash ever forward to get this exclusive gift for you my Ever Forward radio community, that's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dot com. Slash ever forward. If what you're talking about now is going to put us on the path towards financial abundance, you know this mindset shift by incorporating our senses and really taking in and integrating. This moment, then, is kind of the opposite. True that a lot of our money mindset probably happened through integration that we weren't fully aware of.

36:36 So, can we go back and visit maybe moments where my example of going back to my parents, controlling a bit more of my money and choosing how I could spend it, and maybe revisiting how I felt and maybe what I did with my body and choices in that manner to understand what integration looks like and maybe still looks like, so that I can better undo that?

36:58 - Elizabeth (Guest) and not do the same integration practice. So let's use your example. It's a great example, right? And so what if, in that moment well, let me take a step back that was an abstract parameter that your parents put on you, right? Would you agree with that? Yeah, was there a discussion on let's cap your spending on a certain amount? And here's the amount. Was there?

37:15 - Chase (Host) ever a discussion. It was like, Chase, if you're going to be making money.

37:21 - Elizabeth (Guest) This is what you're going to do with it and how you can spend it and how you can save it.

37:24 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and did they tell you the why behind that At that moment? It was because you're going to want to buy a car, and so they were helping me, thankfully, so helping me save money for a couple of years so I could buy my first car.

37:33 - Elizabeth (Guest) Okay, great. And then, but again, did any of that come from you? No, Okay. So on one hand, there is financial literacy and education, so I actually appreciate that they're trying to put some some savings parameters in in in hand. But so let's just go to the experience of buying the DVD, which, funny enough, was only $10 more than that limit, right?

37:52 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was like on sale, like 110 ish.

37:54 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right. And so if in that moment, instead of, um and I can't remember if you said that you were like you went and returned it, or et cetera, but if in that moment they would have had be like okay, chase, let's have a conversation about this DVD, tell us what inspired you to buy it right, what need was it fulfilling? What excited you about it? Um, how does it connect to the idea of potentially buying a car? And you start to have a conversation and be like, actually, in relationship to buying a car, maybe it doesn't bring me all the needs, maybe it doesn't bring me the level of fulfillment I want, let me go return it, or you're like you know what. Actually, in relationship to buying a car, this DVD fulfills a need for creativity because actually I've been wanting to see all these movies that are inspiring a different part of me, and I know that's hard for a 10 year old. I don't know how old you were when you had that I think I was like 13.

38:47 - Chase (Host) 13. But but uh, no, I was, I was 16. So I drove to Best Buy and bought it myself. I was 16.

38:54 - Elizabeth (Guest) You're like wait, I already have the car. But do you see what I'm?

38:57 - Chase (Host) getting at.

38:59 - Elizabeth (Guest) Is that we don't have enough conversations connected to what need is it actually trying to fulfill? And I think there's. You know, there's a big part of the conversation, of my conversation in the book is is talking about these human needs. Human needs are rights, but the way that we satisfy them are different, right? And so I think if we were to just agree collectively that human needs are human rights and we all have them and again, it's neutral but the way we satisfy them are unique and different and some satisfiers may be better than others, then we're having a more nuanced, interesting conversation. So I think if your parents would have been like, hey, maybe let's talk about conscious consumption versus waste and helping you distinguish Chase, was that a conscious consumption? And actually that's going to touch your need for leisure, creativity, connection, because you're going to invite your friends over and have movies, I don't know.

39:54 - Chase (Host) I'm making all this stuff up, or?

39:56 - Elizabeth (Guest) was it an impulse buy? That distinction is really important and I very much encourage parents, and like parents of teenagers, to have that conversation, but have the conversation.

40:05 - Chase (Host) I wish they would have given me a little bit more props. I waited till it went on sale Totally.

40:09 - Elizabeth (Guest) They were a couple hundred bucks back then. You were trying to be smart.

40:12 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I'm watching these DVD players, I was obsessed with Best Buy and I was just like it's on sale. Boom, I'm going to get it.

40:17 - Elizabeth (Guest) Well, and here's. The other thing is like when was that a hundred dollar limit set? Was it set when you were 10?

40:21 - Chase (Host) and you're like hey let's talk about inflation. What was a hundred dollars when I was 10 versus when I'm 16, maybe it's 125 and I came in budget it had been a couple of years. Yeah, cause at that point, like I said, thankfully with the savings my parents helped me put aside and I went and bought this and at that point it was this was our rule.

40:40 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah.

40:40 - Chase (Host) You broke our rule Right. Therefore, there are consequences to breaking the rule. You didn't come to us first, which I understand. So box it up, take it back to Best Buy, and that's what I had to do.

40:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly. And so there was no conversation. How'd that feel in your body? What was your emotion around it? Is that even what you would? What did your mind think? There was no conversation. And so that's when we start to shut down. We make up beliefs, right, I'm not saying you made up this belief, but it's probably like well, why am I going to let anyone into my money, life, right.

41:09 I'm better off doing it myself, so let me go earn as much as I can and then I get to decide on how I spend it. That's a lot of times the decisions we make, and so when we're like, oh gosh, now I'm in a relationship and I need to start to be a little more vulnerable or share or have that conversation, what are they going to tell me that I can't do? Why would I even expose myself to that?

41:30 Right and so yeah, and so the beauty is that may met you with nonjudgmental and probably with also inflation. Be like, yeah, we're talking about way different numbers and let's create a joint plan and so we can start to have these conversations that are more nuanced, so that we're not so stuck in these unconscious money patterns and beliefs and habits. But our mind isn't the only muscle that will get us to a sense of financial well-being and wealth. We have so many stories stuck in our bodies, so many stories stuck in our emotions, and so we have to just tell our money stories.

42:08 - Chase (Host) Could not agree more, and that's a whole other conversation. But I want to go back to what you were talking about earlier. You mentioned I wrote down what I already have, and you were talking about getting into this abundance mindset, and that's something I don't think I've thought about. I don't think a lot of people think about this in terms of their relationship to money and how to really think and be rich. When we hear abundance, we think probably I have to have more, I have to generate more. But how can we have an abundance mindset? How can we live an abundant life financially with what we already have? How can we shift and go? These are the resources that I have now. How can I turn this into an abundance lifestyle so that I then can generate more wealth, learn how to create more money or just make my resources work better for me?

42:59 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right, and so I mean. The first question I want to ask you is, when you say more, more, what?

43:06 - Chase (Host) I think everybody just goes more money, right.

43:08 - Elizabeth (Guest) Why? That's the default answer.

43:12 - Chase (Host) Why do I, why do I have to have more money in order to have financial abundance?

43:17 - Elizabeth (Guest) And so what happens? So two things when we say more money, money kind of like, why do you like? It's the scapegoat that our wellbeing and happiness is more of it. Imagine if you were to say that to May I need more of you to feel happy. She would start to be like come on, chase, you got to figure it out.

43:36 - Chase (Host) That would not go over well.

43:37 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly, Exactly. And so money is like why? Why is there so much pressure that I have to show up for humans to be happy? So, first and foremost, that's always a question. I'm asking more what right and so, and does that make sense?

43:52 - Chase (Host) Yeah, absolutely yeah.

43:53 - Elizabeth (Guest) And so. So two things is and I do want to make sure we talk about this Like I have a super easy way to start to kind of like break down some of the barriers in your relationship with money by having a conversation with it. So I want to make sure we get to that. But when it comes to the more so when I talk about the needs um, I'm going to digress for a second. So we all know Maslow and human needs right, You're right.

44:14 But he did not write it as a hierarchy, right. So when he first started talking about needs, they were linear, they were all on the same plane. And then, right, and so a management company came and made a hierarchy of needs right. So that's not what his original intent was, which is so fascinating, right, and so a lot of what I did was take his work on needs. And then there's another economist from Chile, manfred Max Neif, who I got to study with, and then I created a wealth mandala where I took the 12 needs and, for lack of better word, I kind of flattened it.

44:48 So we're on the same playing fields, right, and there's needs for four different centers. There's the needs that do associate with our abundance, scarcity cycle, like do I have enough to feel financially stable, physical health and safety, like some basic needs on the level field right. Then I have needs around kind of our body, touch, leisure, curiosity. The needs around the heart connection, belonging, participation. The needs around the mind understanding, freedom, purpose, and so a lot of the things that I do with my clients, right, and it doesn't matter if they're financially independent. I could say, well, my work is done here and I'm like my work is not done. Here I have them, look at the wealth mandala and literally color in right, how much, how fulfilled do they feel in each of these needs? And we get these beautiful maps, chase where, I'm like, and then we kind of put it up there and there are these amazing flowers. Some petals are super filled, some are lacking.

45:48 And then from there I'm like, okay, let's talk about this. Why are you scoring yourself a two out of 10 on the need of touch? Why is your participation a four? Right, your financial stability might be a nine, because you have figured out how to make money, how to earn. Are you an entrepreneur, a W-2, there's enough coming in, but in these other areas of your life you feel lack. That is the true poverty we need to address, person by person, right. And then we say, okay, those are my areas of concern, or development or transformation, however you want to name it. And then I look back at my resources right, because I love cashflow, I love spending parameters and we say, okay, in my spending or my budget, where am I wasting resources Because they're not adding to any of my needs? Where am I actually fulfilling some of these needs and where are there resources that I can recalibrate rechannel refocus on these areas that I'm actually feeling lacking. Wow, does that make sense?

46:50 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and so it's not mind blowing.

46:52 - Elizabeth (Guest) So it's not more money, because more money is like well, what are we trying to do?

46:57 - Chase (Host) Right, if we have more money, then we're just going to repeat the same patterns that got us in the position now where we don't have enough.

47:01 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly so. This is really important. I talk about this in the book. We get stuck in this abundance scarcity loop, where we think the way out of scarcity is abundance, and we get stuck in this loop of like, well, abundance of what? More money, more purchases, more goods, more tangible things maybe, but it's not addressing some of these other things that would actually make you feel wealthier.

47:25 - Chase (Host) Yeah.

47:25 - Elizabeth (Guest) And so that's the point. And so you know money, again, I find it to be a neutral tool. It's social technology, right, it's a neutral tool. And if we're like, okay, money, I did my work. I took responsibility for the areas we're going to come back to conversation with money in a second. I took responsibility for the ways that I'm scapegoating you for my happiness. I did my work. I'm aware of what my map is. Hey, let's come up with a plan. Guess what I actually need more touch in my life, right? So you know, I found this most amazing massage therapist or cranial, sacral. That's what I need more of, right? Or I just actually need to deal with why am I struggling, asking my partner for a hug or whatever. I'm just making this up, right. But then money and I can decide how are we going to really address what's going on? And I often like to tell people when you're addressing a need have strategies that are monetary, but also have strategies that are non-monetary. Those are just as important, because money can't be the scapegoat. No, no.

48:21 So I don't know if that helped answer your question.

48:22 - Chase (Host) No, that's amazing and it kind of reminds me, just as you're talking. It reminds me of the ways that I have really deepened the relationship that I have with money. Again, when we think relationship any good relationship in our life, takes what it takes work, it takes check-ins with your partner, with your business partner, with your employees, with your friends.

48:43 You got to have check-ins or else it's just going to. You're not going to know where you stand. So the second biggest thing that I did this past year to increase my money, to have a better money mindset and increase financial abundance was I set check-ins with money. Uh, we, it started off very strong I'll be totally honest of weekly check-ins.

49:01 - Elizabeth (Guest) What does that look like?

49:02 - Chase (Host) So that looked like me going into every account that I had and combing through every transaction on a weekly basis and going first of all is this correct? Am I? Are there fraudulent charges? There were. Am I double paying for certain memberships? I was.

49:17 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right, and so you're able to clean house. Are there subscriptions you're no longer using? Exactly, there are. Exactly.

49:22 - Chase (Host) So doing that, but then also really just going back and looking at okay, I chose to spend my money this way. How do I feel about that? Yeah, Is this too much for this product or service? Do I feel okay with this purchase? Could I have waited? Where am I, you know? Am I putting money aside for savings? Should I be putting away more? Once I really set regular check-ins, like I do with any relationship with my money, everything changed for me.

49:49 Everything changed. Now it's gotten. I'm probably like once a month now and that's just. Life has been life in, but um, having some sort of regular check-in has been crucial for my financial abundance.

50:02 - Elizabeth (Guest) And what I love about that chase is that you went through an onboarding process that was more intense, right, and those weekly check-ins probably were helpful at the beginning. Once you onboard and you find a system that works, monthly, monthly check-ins may be exactly what you need.

50:16 - Chase (Host) Just like any new habit, right? We kind of have to go all hands on deck at first until it becomes a part of your life.

50:20 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, or sometimes you know people will go to therapy every week and then they're like you know what? I only need to come in once a month, right? Or I'll call you as build a transparent, clear, active, proactive relationship to money, where you feel agency, because you're asking yourself am I aligned with my choices?

50:48 - Chase (Host) And my wife and I did them together for the first couple of months. We went through everything together and then now we just. You know we're good.

50:54 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, and I will say that with some couples um, I'm not saying that you may have to do this they will have maybe 90% of their finances joined and then 10% where they each I mean I've had people call it their mad money where they're like I just need an account where maybe it's like 300 bucks a month going in where I just don't want to. I don't want to be responsible to anyone and I want to allow my impulses to still be present if they're there, but there's parameters. That doesn't put any other plan in jeopardy.

51:26 That is also valid right so just know that everyone I mean I've seen it, I've seen it all. I've seen all different types of structures and it's really important that you know yourself, and I had a teacher once tell me, if you start to close down, it's not working. So so, by no means what?

51:43 - Chase (Host) do you mean by closing down?

51:44 - Elizabeth (Guest) Like if you start to feel restricted, right, and so what if, like you know, I've had people commingle all their finances and they start to have panic attacks?

51:52 Right, they're like, and part of it is because maybe they haven't had a conversation with their spouse, Were they feeling nonjudgment and they're they're. All the judgments are coming through. Maybe or maybe they haven't worked enough to know what it's connected to, and so we have to kind of take a step back and be like, okay, let's start to have these conversations of what's really inducing the panic, but let's also create some structures where you can breathe while we do that work. So I really want to emphasize there's no right way of doing it. You have to pay attention to how is your body, heart and mind reacting to the different structures, and when you find someone that works which is what you're describing make it a muscle. You have to go to the money gym, right, you have to keep going Absolutely. And then you find, and sometimes you'll be like, oh, wow, you know what. I need to go back on that weekly again because I'm feeling a little rusty.

52:39 - Chase (Host) You start counting my calories, you know.

52:40 - Elizabeth (Guest) I've been getting a little fast and loose with my meals. Exactly, it's really important.

52:43 - Chase (Host) Come back to the things that provide stability structure and that you know by past experience you have trust with, but also give you the results that you're looking for.

52:52 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, and I think it's really important is that there's there's a difference between a budget and a plan.

52:57 Right, A budget can feel restrictive, Like no one likes, I mean truly the word budget Everyone's like it's like I'm counting calories, I'm on a diet, Whereas a plan is like okay, I have X number of units to work with. How am I going to map that out? And I think it's really important that the needs mandala can help you get clear on. What are your negotiables and non-negotiables? Right, Like I have a client who's a musician, His piano lessons non-negotiable. It does not matter how much they cost, that is non-negotiable. It fills many different needs at once. But he's like you know what I could cut down on my lift, right? He's like I could either walk, ride my bike, actually maybe even drive, Like some of the convenience that doesn't necessarily add to it. So each person is different, right? What are your negotiables? What are your non-negotiables? You have?

53:46 - Chase (Host) a set number of units.

53:46 - Elizabeth (Guest) You have agency on how to allocate them, Doing your weekly now monthly check-ins with money. What has that brought you to your life?

54:09 - Chase (Host) that has brought me a level of knowing and trust that I have the right core principles in place that support how I want to live my life and where I want, financially, my life and my family to go. I'm no longer just shooting from the hip, so to speak. You know I related to health and fitness in a big way here. You know I've I spent years figuring out what training methods and what dietary approaches work best for my body, my body composition, my strength, my cognition, my you know everything. I no longer need to fall back on to those hard do this, don't do principles, because I've built that infrastructure, I've built that level of knowing, that kind of those edges that I can come up against and like, okay time to come back, okay Time to push, and I have that now with finances, and so it's that.

54:53 But then also I'm seeing the benefits, and so there's this, also this, this feeding principle of oh, if I do this, then not only do I just have a better feeling, but I'm being rewarded for that feeling I see progress. I see more income. I see more opportunities. I see my money working. I see our money working more for us.

55:15 And it's um, it's more passive, and that's where I've been taking the gas off a little bit. You know, I'm going from weekly to monthly check-ins. Um, and by passive I also mean just, you know, seeing investments pay off, and I see upward trajectory instead of just flatlining.

55:32 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, I mean, and sometimes you may see down right Like but yes, but generally speaking, the trend is up or the trend is in the direction that makes you feel like you've made choices and you see the impact and results of that.

55:44 - Chase (Host) Just like anybody on their diet journey you know, you kind of begin to see the number on the scale go up or down depending on your goal, and that's exactly what's happening.

55:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, and so let's use the I love the metaphor around health because you've, you've, you. You clearly are an expert and you've taken a lot of time to understand health and your body and fitness and you've put it all together and you kind of know, you have your parameters and you're flexible and fluid and you can kind of dance in life in a way that probably feels better than when we're trying to figure it out.

56:12 It's much more intuitive, exactly, and that happens. So, going back to your original question of like why is money so complex and abstract? No-transcript. Let me work with what's already happening and start to gain information about myself. So I just wanted to highlight that's a really important doorway in. If you're like I don't even know where to start with money, start there To be like what can I learn about myself just with my spending? Because guess what You're spending every day.

57:06 - Chase (Host) It's the exact same approach I would have with any client of mine back in my health coaching days of okay, before we put you on any diet, any addition or any subtraction. What are you doing? What are?

57:16 - Elizabeth (Guest) you eating.

57:16 - Chase (Host) Cause you got to eat and you got to move. So what are you doing? What are you not doing? What are you eating? What are you not eating? So let's do the same thing with our, with our money.

57:23 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly.

57:23 - Chase (Host) What are you spending your money on? What are you not spending your money on? Just learn your current behavior.

57:27 - Elizabeth (Guest) And I bet you you probably ask them okay, after you did that, what felt? What feels good, absolutely Right. And money, what feels good? What am I not paying attention to? What am I duplicating Right? Am I using that subscription anymore? Like what? What adjustments in those micro adjustments start to make you feel like you have agency and I can start to add to it. And then comes the next layer Okay, great, I kind of know my spending. What's coming in and coming out better? How am I consuming? Then? What's the next step? Okay, I want to start investing. Great, let's choose one book to start with or one account to research, like you just start. The micro steps is really important, but the other piece that I really want to bring to the table, um and I don't know what would be the metaphor and kind of like the health and relationship to body piece, but is is when. When I talk about understanding your relationship to money, I literally mean sit down and have a conversation with it.

58:30 - Chase (Host) So we should be talking to our money.

58:33 - Elizabeth (Guest) I love that.

58:33 - Chase (Host) Yes, we should be talking to our money A hundred percent.

58:36 - Elizabeth (Guest) You should be talking, and it's like if I have one mission in this world, I would love for everyone to sit down and have a conversation with money. So let me explain what that means, because every client.

58:44 - Chase (Host) Let's get real. Do I have any?

58:46 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yes, let's do this.

58:47 - Chase (Host) Okay, financial. I have to scan these receipts in later.

58:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) Okay. So Chase, okay, perfect, let's get tangible. Let's talk to our money. Okay, big spender over here, great, so let's put money right there $37.

59:02 Okay, $37. So I'm going to invite you to close your eyes for a second, chase, take a deep breath. And today you've been invited to walk into a space and sit down and have a conversation with money. Into a space and sit down and have a conversation with money. And so in a moment I'll guide you through it, chase, and you get to kind of do an initial body scan. What feeling does that evoke for me?

59:29 And when I invite you to talk to money, chase, I'm going to invite you to talk from the feeling place, less the story, because money knows your stories. It's sat in your wallet, your whole freaking life and knows the ups and downs. So you get to speak to it from a place of emotion and just feeling. So we hear a knock on the door, money walks in and it sits down in front of us in the form of $37. You get to speak to it from the first person and it says Chase, I'm here, what do you want to share with me today? And you get to open your eyes and look at money. What's the first thing you would say?

01:00:24 - Chase (Host) I have no real attachment to you. I know that you're always there, I can always access you through my actions and efforts and I don't need to feel anything in terms of my worth or capabilities by how much of you I have or don't have great and also I can generate you whenever I want mm-hmm.

01:00:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) Okay, great, now pick up money and hold it and you are money. Responding back to Chase Money. What would you say to Chase? I believe you. Why do you believe Chase?

01:01:13 - Chase (Host) I believe you through the actions that you have shown me. I believe you through the actions that you have shown me and the no longer needing to kind of have this chokehold on it or fear of other people's belief set around money influencing yours.

01:01:42 - Elizabeth (Guest) So money? If you were to tell us super concretely what was one action that Chase took to release that chokehold, what?

01:01:44 - Chase (Host) did he do that? Really felt better to you. He paid attention to me coming back to the relationship aspect, he finally noticed me, stopped taking me for granted or thinking that I was always going to be there. Um, and yeah, he checked in, he created a relationship with me. Yeah.

01:02:03 - Elizabeth (Guest) And why was that important?

01:02:06 - Chase (Host) Like in any relationship, everybody wants to be seen, everybody wants to be respected, everybody wants to know that their input is being met to some level same output, reciprocity, value exchange.

01:02:22 - Elizabeth (Guest) Great, okay, money, you're back on the table.

01:02:25 - Chase (Host) Also, it's very wild that I have $37. This is my number. I have a tattoo on my leg, yeah. This is blowing my mind right now. Anybody who knows me knows the level to which 37 influences my life.

01:02:37 - Elizabeth (Guest) Wow, that's amazing. So, chase, what would you say? Back to money, after it said it appreciated you taking responsibility and releasing the chokehold. You valued it.

01:02:51 - Chase (Host) I think we're going to have a long beautiful relationship together. We've learned how to really coexist together and we've known we now know how to kind of get the other one to show up more and all it takes is an intention and a continuation of action and just regular check-ins and that it's not going anywhere.

01:03:22 - Elizabeth (Guest) The relationship- isn't going anywhere A hundred percent. So as a way to close, you get to say thank you to money.

01:03:31 - Chase (Host) Thanks money. Thank you, I appreciate you.

01:03:33 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, and a part of me. Let's leave it here for a second. Um, I would encourage you I mean, I'll say something to the conversation with money in a second but to go home and frame these $37, you know because put it in a picture frame. We have picture frame of all of our family members and kids and spouses and important moments that we've had in our life. Just frame it. And ever so often, like I have framed money in my life, I have magnets, I and I just literally say, hey, money, it's just a family member and it will help you chase, stay in relationship with it and really just say hello. Because I think what I heard money say is that, wow, you finally decided to not take me for granted and value me by looking at me, right. And so I would say a couple of things, because what I love is that we just got to. So thank you for being vulnerable Everyone.

01:04:23 - Chase (Host) Thank you. That practice was incredible.

01:04:25 - Elizabeth (Guest) It's amazing, right, and I don't know if you felt any resistance, but most people feel resistance when I asked them to do it, even if it's for a slight second, because they're like I'm asking you to do something different, I'm all in. It's a gestalt chair exercise, right? So it's a therapeutic exercise where you talk with something that you're finding resolution. You could stick your mom in the chair, your dad in the chair, your spouse in the chair, and so a lot of what I do with clients is that we stick money in the chair. But there's two really important pieces. There is to get off what you need to get off your chest.

01:04:52 In your case, you have a lot of gratitude and appreciation. You're appreciating and savoring the moments of success that you've had in your money mindset, and you were very generous in sharing that with money, and then money responded in kind, with generosity, but also giving you a really important key chase, which it's. It's it. You all have this relationship because you took the time to see it and value it Right, and so that's key. And so the why I tell you, go frame it is because that will be a reminder physical reminder in your life how important that is. So if you start to pass too much time between your monthly check-ins, you'll see the framed money You're like oh well, I have to go back, right oh my God.

01:05:35 Yes, you know, it's just a much like you're like oh shoot, well, I have to go back, right? Oh my God. Yes, you know, it's just as much. Like you're like oh shoot, there's my mom. I got to call her, you know what I mean, like there's ways in which we have pictures of those we love in our world. We can do the same with money. Right, we can create a relationship.

01:05:51 It's not always even keel If you're like, wow, I'm really struggling with the money decision right now, or I got hit with a really big tax bill cause I'm making more money and I didn't plan for that and you're having emotions around it. Go to wherever you have money framed and say you know what money I got to have a conversation with you, I'm stuck and so share what you need to share. Switch roles, hold money in your lap, see what money has to say. You would be amazed, right? So for years that was my morning practice. I drink a cup of tea, I drink mate, so I'd let it seep, and while it would seep, I would literally sit in my journal and have a conversation with money. Some days we're like money, we're doing amazing, and some days, like money, I'm really struggling to make this decision. Or, oh, my goodness, let me tell you what my husband did. Or?

01:06:36 - Chase (Host) let me you know what I mean.

01:06:38 - Elizabeth (Guest) And you start to just create a different relationship that connects not just your mind and kind of the planning and strategy, but also your heart and your body and your digesting moments of meaning.

01:06:52 - Chase (Host) You're incredible.

01:06:53 - Elizabeth (Guest) Oh, thank you, it's a lot of fun.

01:06:55 - Chase (Host) This and I was just going to say I really appreciate your approach to talking finances through the non-traditional way of being okay with it and having fun with it. I think, myself included, a lot of us we have, even if we know or we believe this is what I should do to change my money mindset, or this is what I should do to change my financial situation. It comes with this like old, standard, cold approach again going back to shame and harshness around it, but like anything that we want in our life, or more of what do we do. Like James Clear says, maybe we have it stuck. We find ways to integrate it into our life that we're already doing and we can make it more, make it better. I don't think anybody has any habit in their life that they thoroughly enjoy, that they begrudgingly do day in, day out. Now, of course, not every day, you don't. You don't always want to go to the gym, you don't always want to work out, but you know you do things because you know they're good for you.

01:07:50 - Elizabeth (Guest) And you feel better when you do it Every damn time.

01:07:53 - Chase (Host) And that's on the other end. Again, you get rewarded for the behavior that you chose to do, that you are having fun with it. You get rewarded for your efforts and no matter insert any habit, any goal here, any which way we're trying to move forward in life. It's that discipline, it's the satisfaction, it's the reward that comes with it, that is going to keep us accountable and adherent.

01:08:15 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, exactly. And so what I love about that chase I mean the subtitle of the book, right, it's the power of enough, finding joy in your relationship to money. I think now that makes more sense to you. But I can't tell everyone's a little quizzical when they hear that they're like I kind of want that, but joy money how?

01:08:30 does that work? Can we have fun with it? And in reality, when you start to have your own personalized relationship with it, I mean we just, you know, we just I wouldn't have come in here saying, hey, you're going to frame $37 to be like what is she talking about? But it was such an organic unfolding in your, in your relationship to money, that I got to witness, and may I one day walk into your house and see money framed and say, hey, money. I was there when this happened.

01:08:54 - Chase (Host) I know exactly where I'm putting it.

01:08:55 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly. And then like it will spark a sense of joy because you'll start to feel closeness with it and you're like hey money, you know, even on days when you know markets are down, you're like Whoa, where are you going? Why are you disappearing in my investment accounts?

01:09:09 - Chase (Host) I thought we were friends.

01:09:10 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly, and money's like I may just be having a bad day, Right, Right, and do we need to make adjustments? Or hey, you know what, Just stick with me while I'm having a bad day. I mean, I love like going back to like. I love economics and number solving and mathematics. You know, like that's my family and I love the psychology.

01:09:31 And when I think of economic cycles right, Growth recession, depression, growth recession, depression, Growth recession, depression, Growth recession, depression. Recession is recess, Depression is depress, Take your foot off the pedal. What needs to adjust? Every time we go through big financial depressions, something changes in our administration, in our policies, in our legislation, because something isn't working Right and so we're deathly afraid of it. But if we hold it as a natural cycle, then we're able to kind of turn towards and be like, yeah, this is uncomfortable, kind of sucks, but we're asking to adjust and align and guess what? Let's do that collectively and not out of fear. And let me not push money away because it's not showing up the way I want it to, but it's showing up as it is right now and it's telling me something.

01:10:21 - Chase (Host) Can we go there a little bit please? You know, as we're talking, there's a lot going on in the world, or at least there's a lot going on in America, and we're going through a change of command and with that comes people making or not making very distinct choices with their money or thinking a lot differently about it. What do you think is so unique about this change of command in America? A new president or a new old president that has people not acting out of their right mind or maybe not recognizing fully this recession, depression, kind of ebb and flow of money?

01:10:58 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, that's a great question and you know, if I'm totally transparent, I will. When I'm uncomfortable with change, I try to zone out to the bigger collective story of what way, what's happening outside of what we can see in a very short period of time. You know what I mean. So, like the historic, and so maybe once a year I'll have a session with an astrologer who I deeply adore and I happened to plan it after the election that was not on purpose, that's when she had an opening and what was really helpful about that session was helping her give me context for how, astrologically speaking, we are in a time of radical change. That is what people want, and so if I can hold on to that essence and understand that people voted for radical change and radical change means different things to different people and that's why some people were disoriented if you got the outcome you wanted or not wanted.

01:11:55 But I think, in the end, what brings us together is that we do want radical change and I think what what that helped me do is be like okay, let me come to where we are aligned together collectively. Is that there is radical change right that we want to see. I mean, I don't know if you'd agree with me, chase, that we could argue that both were trying to run on radical change, but different expressions of radical change. And so again, independent of what happened, can we still stay connected to that desire for radical change, because that's what can propel us forward in potentially making policy and decisions, both governmental and societal, and also personal, that can help propel us forward to something better. I mean, I can't guarantee that it will, but I can stay connected to the desire for radical change.

01:12:52 - Chase (Host) Do you think, with this new president, are we going towards a more financially abundant direction in America, or are we just still trying to wrap our head around it?

01:13:05 - Elizabeth (Guest) It's tricky, I think, politics aside, there's two I find a little bit of contradictory things that are happening right. One is you know, the incoming government is very pro-business, right, and so, on one hand, there was an initial bump in the stock market right after the elections I would say that often happens, chase, that's not just this election. The stock market likes certainty, and so after any election and any change of command, it's like okay, there was like an exhale and there's a sense of what's coming.

01:13:32 - Chase (Host) So I think that is politics aside, we do see that happen.

01:13:35 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right, and that's a lot of what, as a financial advisor, we do during election years is to keep people steady and be like the markets. You know they do settle after an election because we have certainty, right, so we saw the bump in the stock market. I think what's potentially going to cause some conflict and tension is like, how do some of the policies that potentially come into force have an impact on tariffs and inflation and deficit? And I think that is potentially going to create disruption to what has been a relatively soft landing for the Fed. So that's the tricky piece is that, and we don't know, right, we don't know.

01:14:22 But yeah, and I think, going back to the idea of cycles, right, I think any change in governance brings a cycle change, change. And I think, if we go back to economics, right, growth, recession, depression, growth, recession, depressions the length of their timing differs, right, and we could sit here all day long and try to understand, you know, like the Fed founded soft landing, and how long do recessions last and depressions last? And how long do expansions last? Right, we had an amazing decade, um, um, pre, pre pandemic, and so the the timing of cycles differ, but the cycle still continue. Right, and I think that's the really important piece, is that if we I mean it's like you told money, I feel less attachment. Rubber hits the road chase, if you can say that even when accounts are down rubber hits the road chase.

01:15:21 - Chase (Host) If you can say that even when accounts are down, that's good Right.

01:15:26 - Elizabeth (Guest) That's good. Email me, be like Elizabeth. I did it. I was able to stay connected to money even when my accounts are down. Cause if there's one thing I can guarantee you, one day your accounts will be go down. They will go down, they will likely go up again. But can we still hold that same secure attachment? It's actually not so much non-attachment secure attachment, right, it's almost like telling May May, I'm still going to love you if you wake up one day on the wrong side of the bed, right, and hopefully next day you're on the other side of the bed we can't control the timing of those things, but that's when rubber hits the road.

01:15:57 What does your relationship look like when there's turbulence, right, when markets are down, when maybe you lost a job or you know someone stole from you? There's so many money traumas we can go through, so what? What is your relationship to money? Look then.

01:16:14 - Chase (Host) What are you most hopeful for in 2025 that you think can become a reality for anyone in terms of their financial abundance right now?

01:16:24 - Elizabeth (Guest) or this year? That is a great question. Um, what I love about the start of the new year is that you can all I mean we, we start the year with resolutions, right. But I think it's even more profound and impactful if you start the year with new habits. That's a different. I mean, you know that from the habits you've been building in your experience with health chase. It's habits will oftentimes create a different trajectory than just thinking it and writing it on paper. You have to put it to practice. So what I'm really excited about any new year and I love the zeros and the fives we're like halfway through the decade right, and so you can look backwards and be like whoa.

01:17:05 That was an interesting start of the decade.

01:17:06 - Chase (Host) Bigger benchmarks.

01:17:07 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly Bigger benchmarks, and so I think, in 2025, it's a good time not just to do your one-year vision, but your five-year vision. Take a step backwards and be like, okay, what was the first half of the decade, what am I learning about myself when it comes to fulfillment, satiation, money growth, money transformation, how am I feeling wealthy? How am I not feeling wealthy? Like, do an assessment, looking backwards and gather information to then do an assessment looking forward to where do I want to be five years from now, but also, how do I want to feel? What would wealth look like for me then? Not just from the financial standpoint, but go to your needs and be like, okay, you know what that need that I'm feeling like deficient in. What would that? What? How would I feel if that need were fully met?

01:17:55 And then give yourself that time horizon, because it never happens in a year, right, that's sometimes where our love-hate with resolutions. You're like wait a second, that was enough time. I feel like the new year doesn't actually even start until like, february 1st, right, january is this wonky month. So, if you can take some time mid-decade to do a little bit of an assessment backwards and envisioning forward and what I would recommend ask your heart well, ask your mind what your vision is five years from now. Ask your heart how it wants to feel. Ask your body how it wants to feel five years from now.

01:18:29 - Chase (Host) You think those are all three different.

01:18:31 - Elizabeth (Guest) These are all very different responses, very different. I mean, you know, right, if you have an argument with May, your mind is thinking one thing, your heart is feeling another thing, your body's probably closing down or wanting to punch. And so if we start to recognize that we have different parts of ourselves I mean we often talk about part therapy with, like, the younger part, the older, part right Parts work right, so same thing.

01:18:55 There's different parts of ourself having a conversation and much like we're tuning into a conversation with money, tune into these parts of yourself to create a more embodied vision of wealth and then break it down and say, okay, if I can take into account all the aspects of me, what do I want to focus on in this year and what habit, belief, mindset, expression, experience, emotion would best support that?

01:19:25 - Chase (Host) I love that breakdown of the parts. I think it's such an important part.

01:19:28 Pun intended to take note of is that with our relationship to money, with really any area of our life. It's very rare in my opinion excuse me, it's very rare in my opinion where our collective self physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, like our body, our heart, our mind are all on the same page about how we feel about something, or even how we relate to it or a memory about it, and kind of just trying to understand it. It's very rare. I can't think of anything in my life where I'm like oh yes, all of me felt this way. It's usually trying to get parts of me on board with the other or there's there's this resistance. And if I can better understand, this is where I feel this, this is why I feel it, this is how it makes me feel, how it makes me think. Then you really begin to kind of learn how to first kind of detach from it and then take a collective image of your approach to it.

01:20:21 So then you get to choose how you get to come back to it and understand different dynamics that that the things happen to you, but now the different dynamics in which you get to act upon them.

01:20:30 - Elizabeth (Guest) Yeah, no. So let me give you two concrete examples of the opposite Cause I think sometimes when we talk about the opposite, then what we're trying to say comes more clear.

01:20:37 And so, for example, when we talk about the opposite, then what we're trying to say comes more clear. And so, for example, um, uh, receiving an inheritance when a loved one dies, selling a house and leaving your community, right, or, for some cases, retiring. So these are very concrete financial moments, right? So let's just say you received an inheritance, but it came at the expense of someone you loved. Now you have a windfall of money, you are financially wealthier today than you were yesterday, but your heart is broken, yeah.

01:21:06 - Chase (Host) Right, so do you see how? How do you accept that?

01:21:08 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right. Well, so cause your mind may and this is natural your mind may start planning what you're going to do with the next windfall, but your heart is grieving and your body's in shock. So that's a great example of a moment when there's there's material windfall, but not all of you is a on board or ready to integrate what that means, right. And so you know the common wisdom is take a minute, right when someone dies and you're receiving inheritance, to grieve and get back to your core before you start planning how you're going to spend the money.

01:21:40 - Chase (Host) Right.

01:21:42 - Elizabeth (Guest) You sell a house and you're like, oh my gosh, windfall, I'm downsizing, I have more money. Or I'm you know what I'm going to try. I'm going to become a global nomad and, like now, I have, I sold my million dollar house and I have money to work with. But you may be grieving the loss of your community, you may feel scared that I don't know where I'm going Like. So do you see where you can have windfalls and not all of you is experiencing it as a windfall? Or you retire and you have this amazing party and everyone's congratulating you for the success in your career. And then you wake up on the first day of your retirement You're like what do I do today? I'm so disoriented, right? My rhythms and my routines are different, so notice that in.

01:22:21 We could probably break that down for any money moment in our lives. You have to check in How's your mind doing, How's your heart doing, How's your body doing? Anything? You need a little more integration, anything. You need a little more support. Let's you know, let's pay attention, let's get everyone on board. Then let's move forward, Right, so so. So when you start to break it down that way, no wonder money is confusing.

01:22:44 - Chase (Host) That is probably the best description of money mindset and how to step into financial abundance forever. I've ever heard.

01:22:54 - Elizabeth (Guest) Why? What jumped out at you?

01:22:58 - Chase (Host) It just is a reminder of what we've been talking about this whole time and it just how truly it is a relationship. Yeah, it is a relationship. If we take money off the table, how would you address relationship if you care about relationships in your life? Yeah, meaningful, nurturing, nurturing, reciprocal, but just an energy exchange, even some that aren't always the same. But I mean, how many of us have people in our life that you haven't talked to in months but the second you see them?

01:23:31 - Elizabeth (Guest) it's like no time in the world you pick up the phone.

01:23:33 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you can pick right back up yeah that is what we're all after. Yeah, if you take money off the table, put relationship back up there where money used to be, how would you live your life? How would you change your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors?

01:23:47 - Elizabeth (Guest) It would be totally different, but I would say it's slightly different chase. I wouldn't take money off the table. I mean, money is still on the table with us right now, literally on the table with us. I would say money has its right place at the table.

01:24:01 - Chase (Host) That is really important Money.

01:24:03 - Elizabeth (Guest) Right, we can't grip on it. We can't hold it too tight and say you are going to define me, you have the keys to my destiny and my happiness, but we also can't push it away. Right, money? It's like no, I just want to be at the table and Chase, bring all of you. What are you trying to do, right? Tell me about your next entrepreneur enterprise, and what are you and May trying to do, and what do you want to teach your kid? Money wants to participate, much like your heart, your mind, your body want to participate, so it needs its right place at the table.

01:24:37 - Chase (Host) How many of us are living a life right now where we haven't even put a chair at the table? We haven't even set a place? It reminds me of Game of Thrones. You know where. You know the, the King and all of his advisors. They all have a table and even when someone's not there, there's a chair. There's a place they have literally a tangible thing to to represent that person, so that you're always aware that there is this other person, this entity at the table.

01:25:02 - Elizabeth (Guest) Exactly.

01:25:02 - Chase (Host) To get us towards the end here. This has been incredibly valuable and fun and enjoyable. I'm going to have all of the information in the book Power of Enough down in the show notes and video description box for everybody. Let's bring it home. I know how this is helping me move forward with my money, mindset and abundance, and a new frame on my wall with my $37 here, but ever forward. What are those two words mean to you?

01:25:28 - Elizabeth (Guest) So I've sat with it, chase, because I know you asked this question and so at first no words came, because there was a movement and I even feel that when I say it today is a movement, and I even feel that when I say it today, ever forward is a movement.

01:25:40 Where we are, we are propelled forward, and so there's a leaning back and trusting by ever forward. Right when I hear the story of your journey with the podcast and whatever forward means in relationship to your father, there's a leaning back and trusting that you're going to be held by those relationships that maybe don't exist on this plane anymore but, you know, are still there. So the same thing and so the ever forward is both the action of moving forward in your life, but also the ability to surrender and know that you're being moved ever forward. And there's something about surrendering into the sheer fact that we're in relationship to money. Just knowing that is a step moving forward and you can be propelled. Sometimes we try too hard and I think part of the invitation is have fun, trust you're in a relationship with money, trust that you're being held by it, trust that you're being held by the relationships that are here, no longer here, and ever forward.

01:26:43 - Chase (Host) Like I always say, there's never a right or wrong answer, but thank you for your interpretation, a really, really unique one, and I'm going to, I'm going to take that home with me.

01:26:52 - Elizabeth (Guest) I'm glad In a big, big way.

01:26:53 - Chase (Host) Thank you so much. Yeah, for more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com