EFR 853: Urolithin A - The Miracle Postbiotic That Boosts Cellular Energy, Increases Muscle Strength in 16 Weeks and Could Be the Key to Longevity and Inflammaging with Jen Scheinman

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Jen (Guest) The mitochondria. The first thing that comes to people's mind right is powerhouse of the cell. Right it gives our cells the energy and the life force that they need to do their job. Again, whether it's performance or whether it's just promoting longevity, we have to think about these little power packs, these little battery-operated, you know organelles inside our body and how they can help us to thrive. My belief is actually the mitochondria and mitochondrial health.

00:26 This is the next and I hate to call it a trend, because that makes it sound not science-backed, but the next wellness trend. Like when we think about gut health and where that was 10 to 15 years ago, there was incredible science, but the general public 15 years ago didn't really know what gut health was. And now it's everywhere the science around mitochondrial health and its importance, as you pointed out, not just in performance and metabolism, but just longevity. The science is incredible and we've barely scratched the surface, and so we're going to be hearing a lot more about it. We're going to be learning more about it, pharmaceuticals and more supplements that are coming out targeting mitochondrial health. So buckle up and get ready for it. There's a lot more to learn and uncover. I'm Jen Scheinman, registered dietitian and senior manager of nutrition affairs at Timeline and welcome to Ever Forward Radio.

01:22 - Chase (Host) My guest today is Jen Scheinman. She is a nutrition and wellness expert, registered dietitian, nutritionist and senior manager of nutrition affairs at Timeline. Jen has been diving into the scientific intricacies of a process called mitophagy and is equipping us with some extremely valuable tools for inducing this very important process for daily energy, vitality, longevity and so much more. We're going to be discussing advancements in longevity medicine, how we can better recycle dysfunctional mitochondria and promote energy and muscle strength in the most simplest, most effective, most science-backed and clinically proven methods. And Jen is not only here today to give us this mitochondrial metabolic health masterclass. She's also going to be talking a lot about a particular ingredient in a particular product urolithin A, this key molecule inside of MitoPure and actually MitoPure is one daily longevity supplement that I have been taking for about three years now, pushing three years and if I had to scrap every single supplement that I take, whether on a daily basis or maybe when I'm traveling or even just when I'm sick, if I can only take one thing for the rest of my life daily, it would be Mito Pure. You probably heard me talk about them. They've been a partner here on the show for the past couple of years and they are back in 2025. So thank you, timeline, for continuing to support this show, and I love it. I've been using it. In fact, last year I went off of it for about four or five weeks and one of the most noticeable dips in my daily baseline energy ever. So I was a believer. I knew how good I felt on it and the comparison being off of it was something that I didn't want to continue, not to mention I really haven't felt any muscle soreness in years. I have to push myself harder and harder and harder in the gym If I want that that DOMS. You know that, that muscle soreness. But now I'm able to have great workouts day after day and my muscles are just recovering faster. My endurance is through the roof. I am so happy with my strength now pushing 40 years old, and I do attribute a lot of this to my daily consumption of MitoPure.

03:32 If this is your year to regain your energy but no matter what your goals are for 2025, this supplement can help because it supports your health at the foundation by encouraging cellular renewal. Mitopure is a precise dose of the rare postbiotic urolithin A that Jen is going to be breaking down even further in today's episode. That's because it works by promoting an essential cellular cleanup process that clears out dysfunctional mitochondria. Mitopure, in fact, is the only urolithin A supplement on the market clinically proven, with over a decade of human clinical trials, to target the effects of age related cellular decline. With regular use, you'll see and feel the difference in the form of improved energy levels, better workouts, faster recovery, more endurance and so much more All the things that I just shared about in my personal experience.

04:20 Right now, exclusively today, in this episode, timeline is offering 33% off of your order of Mito Pure while supplies last. This is an unheard of deal. This is the biggest discount I've seen them offer yet and if you want to scoop it, try it out for yourself. I got it linked for you in the show notes under episode resources Head to Timelinecom. Slash EverForward33. Slash ever forward 33. That's T I M E L I N? Ecom. Slash ever forward three, three. Thank you, timeline nutrition for sponsoring today's episode. Thank you for tuning in and join me in welcoming Jen Scheinman. I feel like we can't talk about the mitochondria without first talking about mitophagy. Mitochondria without first talking about mitophagy. Can you break down for us what does that mean? How does it happen? How do we accelerate it? How does it?

05:15 - Jen (Guest) get slowed down. And why does mitophagy really matter? Yeah, absolutely, and I think that is one of the foundational pieces of mitochondrial health. So I'm going to talk in very simple terms and then we'll kind of expand from there. But I think of the mitochondria almost as like a little factory, right. It takes raw materials, which is the food that we eat and the air that we breathe, and it goes through a very complex assembly line and at the end we get cellular energy, atp. But just like any other factory right, what those raw materials are matters. You know, all the ingredients and the workers on that factory matter, and the factory is also itself going to break down with wear and tear as that happens right and so there's a lot of things we can do to improve the output of energy.

05:57 Right, we could build new factories, we could add new workers, but at the end of the day, once that factory is sort of dysfunctional, we need to demolish it, recycle it and then make room, have more real estate to build more of these factories. And so that recycling process I think of as really the foundational to mitochondrial health is that removal of the damaged mitochondria, and that is mitophagy. So mitophagy I think you know people are very familiar with the word autophagy, right, Especially if you talk a lot about fasting and that recycling of the cells Mitophagy is a very specific, unique type of autophagy that happens only to the mitochondria. So, taking those energy factories, breaking them down, building new, better functioning mitochondria building new, better functioning mitochondria.

06:50 - Chase (Host) What is maybe one way that someone listening right now can take action to help the mitophagy process before we even get into any of the nutritional components supplementation or before we even dive into really urolithin A, because there are a few things that we can do immediately to help this process. But I would love to hear you kind of drive these points home.

07:09 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our bodies are just so miraculous, right that they have these systems in place and you know so it's happening, sort of low grade in the background all the time, but similar to autophagy. You know there's things you can do that are going to help to upregulate that right, and the first one is fasting or calorie restriction. So we know that when you do restrict your calories, when you do go through these periods without consuming food, that recycling process is going to rev up. We're going to see more mitophagy happening.

07:40 The other thing is exercise right, and different types of exercise are going to impact the mitochondria in different ways.

07:48 From the way that I really understood it, like HIIT exercise seems to be really great for mitophagy, whereas strength and endurance are better for other performance of mitochondrial health. But any good exercise program is going to be targeting mitochondrial health in some sort of way. So those are the things that right, like there's no replacement for those things, those things need to be part of any foundational component. But to that point, also, like not everybody can or necessarily like should fast, especially for extended periods of time. And you know, while everybody should exercise, like not everybody does right, that's a behavior change that takes a lot of work, and we also get busy and sometimes we go through periods where we're injured or something's happening right, where we're just not exercising, we're traveling a ton. We're not doing these things as much as we wish we had the time to do right, and so it's helpful to know that there's other things that we can do that are going to help to stimulate mitochondrial health and specifically this recycling mitophagy process.

08:49 - Chase (Host) So the question comes to mind for me if we know that fasting stimulates mitophagy and we know that the more mitophagy that we have going on, we have healthier, more productive, even more mitochondria do people fast live longer? Do people who fast have healthier lives? Do people who fast have higher quality healthspan and lifespan? Should everyone be fasting?

09:16 - Jen (Guest) I have. Well, let me first answer to people like what we know about fasting, right? So in terms of do people live a longer life? This is something that's really hard to measure, right? Because nobody is like starting somebody at birth and following them through their lifespan and tracking their fast. We look at this type of stuff in animal models. A lot of lifespan extension, right, comes from animal models, but we can look at biomarkers and other things that indicate, yeah, this person might live longer or is healthier.

09:43 A lot of the data on fasting is in people who are metabolically unhealthy.

09:48 So who are, you know, either with type two diabetes or overweight, and we see amazing benefits of fasting, you know, does that mean that people who are already super active and you know fit are not getting benefits?

10:03 No, they might be as well, but I think it becomes a lot more challenging If you are an athlete and you require a lot of calories and you require a lot of protein in order to really fuel your workouts. It can be really hard to get all of that when you're fasting. I work specifically, really, with women who are going through perimenopause right now and their protein needs are, you know, something that they're increasing at this point in their life, and sometimes it's a real challenge for them when they're fasting to get their protein space throughout the day. So I don't think that fasting as a blanket is for everyone, unless you're necessarily like working with someone who can make sure you're getting all of the nutrition that you need. Now again, as I said, people who are metabolically unhealthy there might be a case for at least trimming that eating window or playing around with it in some other cases, but even then I think it's the type of thing that's helpful when done with a professional, to kind of make sure that you're still getting all the nutrition that you need.

10:59 - Chase (Host) And then there's just people who just don't like it.

11:01 - Jen (Guest) They're hangry, they're uncomfortable, like I, I, you know, I have some friends that like they fast and they feel amazing. I don't feel amazing when I fast, so I time restrict in the sense that like I don't eat for 12 hours, but I don't usually fast much longer than that. Or, you know, maybe I might do something more extended, like once or twice a year.

11:20 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I feel like we should maybe break down fasting a little bit more, particularly through the lens of what type of fasting. What duration of fasting are we talking about? That really focuses on mitophagy. That really helps us get this cellular mitochondrial revitalization. Are we talking intermittent fasting and does that look like an 8-hour window, 12-hour window, 18-hour, 20-hour window, or is it more? Once a week, do a 24-hour fast, once a month, do a two-day fast. What are we really talking about here?

11:49 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, so I call time-restricted eating like the fasting that's in these sort of short windows, right, when it's 12 hours, 14 hours, 16 hours People play with different windows right Then, where it's really just a shortened eating window where you are eating, you know whatever you want, Hopefully it's still healthy, nutritious food, right, but you just maybe eight hours a day you're eating. And then there are other types of fasting where it's like I think it's, you know, I only eat one meal a day or I go a full 24 hours of fasting For really the autophagy and the mitophagy benefits. It seems that these longer fasts are needed to really turn up the volume on autophagy and mitophagy. So again, these things are always happening in the background.

12:33 - Chase (Host) What do you mean by longer fast? How long is a long fast?

12:36 - Jen (Guest) Say longer fast, like over 24 hours, really, something more like potentially a 36-hour water fast. Or there's some of these fasting mimic programs where you're eating like you know, very minuscule quantities of food and almost like tricking your body into being fasted, and those are like five-day fasts. So Dr Walter Longo, who doesa lot of that research, he really feels that these longer fasts are more beneficial for triggering a lot of this cellular cleanup. The shorter fasts I think are fantastic for just helping to sort of regulate, you know blood glucose levels and sort of hit a little bit of a metabolic reset and also to allow the gut to rest. So you know, a 16-hour fast I think can have some benefits as well, but we're really talking about that cellular cleanup. The longer fast seems to be more beneficial.

13:21 And then of course you get into that concern of like, well, are you eating enough protein during that? You know, a three-day fast, chances are not right. You're either just on water or you're on a very, very low calorie, and Dr Walter Longo's work also is usually low protein. So I think if you're considering fasting it's sort of like what is your potential, your goal? You know, if you're somebody who snacks late at night, sometimes doing a fast is a great way just to like say I'm not eating at night anymore, right, and that's a great, either like weight maintenance tip or just a sort of great way to kind of just keep your blood sugar stable for a little bit of time and rest the gut If you're really looking for that cellular cleanup.

13:56 Sometimes these longer multi-day fasts, or at least a 24 hour fast, can be beneficial. Can be beneficial. And that's where I get even more concerned with meeting nutrition needs, making sure if you are somebody who is super fit and requires a lot of calories just to do the exercise that they want to do, or you're older and you're trying to maintain muscle mass, that's where I start to get concerned that if you're not thoughtful and intentional, that you could miss out on certain important nutrients and macros.

14:31 - Chase (Host) You mentioned earlier that you work a lot with perimenopause and menopausal women. Is that correct, correct? Yep, yeah, so is there more of a benefit for this type of person, in this period of their life, to consider fasting?

14:43 - Jen (Guest) I have really moved away from it in my practice, um and and this is based on my personal practice and not necessarily on science. Um, it's just been sort of. My more clinical experience is that I find that women and I I am a midlife woman myself, I'm 49. I find that women of my generation are very much into this sort of like calorie counting, like you know, almost like an unhealthy sort of like you know we grew up in like the Weight Watchers, like everything had points attached to it.

15:15 - Chase (Host) Counting points yeah.

15:17 - Jen (Guest) And so I kind of feel like they're using fasting almost as like a crutch of like controlling what they're eating than really like looking at it as like a health benefit.

15:29 And a lot of them are really struggling to get as much protein as they need in a day. And so if you're skipping that first meal a day and you're not getting 30 grams of protein in the morning which we know can help with muscle protein synthesis and help with setting the stage for the rest of the day, I find that they're just not having as great success as when they really start the day with a protein forward breakfast. So I again that's my own personal clinical practice, that's you know, different practitioners are going to probably have different things, but I've sort of but I do try to have my clients stop eating, you know, two to three hours before they're going to bed, and so trying to push that dinner to be maybe a little bit earlier, not an 8 pm dinner, trying to get dinner more like 6, 6.30 and hopefully not snack before they go to bed. So they're getting that rest there and kind of extending that window.

16:16 - Chase (Host) Yeah, can you go a little bit deeper for us there? Why do you feel it's so important for someone to increase the eating window, or, I should say, increase the amount of time between their last meal and going to bed? What benefit does that have, unique to mitochondrial health?

16:35 - Jen (Guest) To mitochondrial health specifically.

16:37 I, you know, I think of it.

16:38 That's a good question because I think of it more just in terms of like rest and digest and blood sugar and circadian rhythm, which I guess you know could all be tied into mitochondrial health as well. But you know, what I find is, you know, a lot of people are sitting and like snacking in front of the TV late night and there's just really A no health benefit to that. B, it just allows the body to fully go into rest and digest mode so that you're not going to bed. And I see this a lot with my clients that are wearing fitness trackers. Right, they notice that they get into better quality sleep if they eat earlier in the day or their dinner earlier, I should say People who are wearing CGMs might notice that their blood sugar is better regulated overnight. So yeah, I mean I guess that all technically is impacting mitochondrial health. But I'm thinking it more of like a broader lens of just sort of weight management especially again, midlife women, weight starts to become an issue and just kind of overall calorie control and blood sugar management.

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19:22 I'm a team whoop over here, physical activity tracker, running on almost five years of data now, and I've noticed personally that if I eat and not so much like a snack, but if I have, let's say, a late dinner or a meal within 30 to 45 minutes of going to bed, it has pretty much always, pretty much every time, it has the same effect on my sleep and recovery in a negative way.

19:49 As if I had a serving of alcohol, a beer or a glass of wine. I see a drop in recovery, I see a drop in sleep score, and so I'm like, wow, then you kind of get into this bucket of oh well, maybe I need more protein, or I need more calories for the day in order to hit my calorie goal, protein goal, or just I'm hungry. Maybe I trained hard or worked hard, or I didn't get to eat a lot today, so I'm trying to just get in my fill, but then you're kind of just trading one evil for the other, so to speak. And well, now I get less sleep, and so then I'm not getting as many of the regenerative healing benefits from sleep. I'm waking up a little more groggy the next day. I can't quite get after it the next day, and so it's really eyeopening, and so I can just personally attest to the larger the window I have from my last meal to when I go to bed. The better my sleep, the better my recovery.

20:37 - Jen (Guest) Yep, absolutely I agree. I see that in myself, I see that in my clients. You know, and sometimes you know it's just life gets in the way and you can't do that. But you know, if you live in an area where it's you can walk at night. I know we're getting into the season where it's dark, but even like a 10 minute walk after you eat can do wonders for like bringing down your you know, your glucose levels and just kind of helping to move things along and sort of you know the GI tract and kind of that can be sort of a little band-aid if you do eat later than you really intended to.

21:08 - Chase (Host) Yeah. So let's shift into something that I have talked about on my show for a couple of years now, but I would really love to have you unpack urolithin A, this postbiotic material that we are seeing have so many profound health benefits for damn near every age group physically active, inactive, in fact. Some of the most astounding science I'm seeing come out in terms of increase in muscle strength and endurance was tested in physically inactive people, which blows my mind. I'm how can someone who is not training regularly have an increase in muscle strength and endurance? You would think you would need to train more. But what is your lithium A? And just high level? Why does it matter for everyone? Before we kind of get into the weeds?

22:02 - Jen (Guest) Yeah. So you hit the nail on the head when you said it's a post-biotic nutrient. So I mentioned gut health on the head when you said it's a postbiotic nutrient. So you know I mentioned gut health in the beginning of this podcast and how everybody is so sort of like knowledgeable about gut health, you know. But I think one area where people are not quite as knowledgeable yet is this role of postbiotics.

22:21 Right, that is what our gut microbiome, these bacteria in our gut. One of the many benefits is they create these molecules. I like to say we give them room and board. These little critters live inside us. They get to eat the things we can't digest and absorb. So fiber is one of those things.

22:38 Polyphenols, which are these plant chemicals that are so health-promoting. We can't absorb all of those and so our gut does that job for us. Excuse me, our gut microbiome does that job for us and they pay us with these molecules that are so beneficial. And B vitamins some B vitamins are postbiotics, vitamin K, I mean. We get them obviously through food as well, but our gut also produces these, so those are more commonly known postbiotics.

23:03 Short-chain fatty acids like butyrate If you talk ever on your podcast about gut health. Those are really well-known postbiotics, and so this molecule, urolithin A, isand I don't even want to say it's a newly discovered, because actually the research has been at least 15 years, but it's getting morebecause there is actually now consumer-facing products that contain urolifin A. I think people are hearing a lot more about it over the course of the past couple of years, but it's been an extensively researched postbiotic that triggers that recycling process of the mitochondria, that mitophagy. And the thing that's so unique is there's a lot of things out there that will help mitochondrial health in different ways, but the only external molecule to date that's been proven in humans, so in clinical trials, in human beings. So besides fasting, besides exercise, the only other thing you can do is urolithin A is going to upregulate that process. So it's really unique and when you think about that foundation of how you take care of your mitochondria, that's why it's really just such an interesting and important molecule to explore.

24:09 - Chase (Host) I want to share with my audience and I know you're very aware of this study, the one that I was referring to about this increase in strength and endurance in people that aren't strength training or endurance training, and I'm going to have all this information linked down in the show notes for everybody. But the summary of this study from Cell Reports Medicine is about how urolithin A improves muscle strength, exercise performance and biomarkers of mitochondrial health in a randomized trial in middle-aged adults, and it talks about how the data shows significant improvements in muscle strength. Excuse me, me go back to actual the, the dosing. So they present results from a randomized placebo-controlled trial in middle-aged adults where they administered a postbiotic compound your lithium a, a known mitophagy activator, at two doses for four months. So not a crazy high dose, not a crazy long timeline.

25:05 And the data showed significant improvements in muscle strength about 12% with intake of urolithin A. They observed clinically meaningful improvements with urolithin A on aerobic endurance, measured as peak oxygen, oxygen consumption, vo2, and physical performance through the six-minute walk test. Physical performance through the six-minute walk test. So how is it possible that we can take a group of, we'll say here, inactive adults, or we should? I guess really we're not adding any new training protocol to this group and we're only introducing one new variable, and that is taking your lithium A. How is it possible that we can have an increase in muscle strength and an increase in endurance?

25:52 - Jen (Guest) So not only did we not add a new training protocol, there was no training. These were sedentary individuals, so it wasn't like they were active. And then we added this they're sort of your average American person. They also had a BMI of about 29,. Right, so they're overweight. We didn't change diet.

26:13 So you're absolutely right, just one variable and it all comes down to mitochondrial health. So I think one of the things that's important is this isn't like an anabolic type of product where we're seeing muscle growth that's happening, but on the individual muscle cell you have more energy producers, so of course, that cell is going to be able to do its job better. So whether that is walking six meters, you know you can do that better because you have more cellular energy. Whether it is, you know, lifting a weight, you can do that better because those cells have more energy to do their job. So that's really you know. When a weight, you can do that better because those cells have more energy to do their job. So that's really you know. When you think about the muscle cell, it can have thousands of mitochondria. I think we don't always think about that, right when we think about, when I think of high school biology and what I learned about the mitochondria. Like you had that like almost cartoon diagram of a cell right, and there was these two little like bean shaped mitochondria.

27:04 Where the squiggly line? No, we have thousands of mitochondria inside our cells. They talk to each other, which is super cool they fuse together and then, through a process called fission, they divide apart, and MitoPure Urolithin A is really helping this whole recycling process. So when you have more life in that cell, it does its job better. Have more life in that cell, it does its job better. And I think for people who can't exercise or are looking to improve upon their exercise routine, this is something that I think can be a real game changer because of what the data is showing.

27:40 - Chase (Host) This analogy comes to mind for me of imagine we have a rowboat and you've got 12 seats in that rowboat and, for whatever reason, you only get two active. So you introduce something like urolithin A and it begins to activate all of these other people behind the oars kind of thing. So it's all there. It's almost like we have just so much untapped potential at the cellular level, but it just needs this one ingredient, it needs this one thing to come in to activate all of that potential quite literally energy potential to get things going in a much more efficient way. So it's no wonder, yeah, we don't need to introduce any new training or any training protocol, because all the energy potential is just there waiting for us.

28:28 - Jen (Guest) I love that analogy and we'll be stealing it. I think that's perfect. I think that's like a perfect visualization, right? It's either like we're replacing empty seats, or we're replacing rowers who are not doing their job, or a better coach is coming in and getting them to work better, right? So it's all those things Exactly exactly.

28:48 And I, you know, I don't want to say we don't need a training program, because I think, you know, in the supplement world, right, people are sometimes looking for quick fixes, right, and you know I fully believe as a dietician, right, like the behaviors, you need a training program, you need an exercise program. This is really just that third pillar of health and wellness is kind of advanced supplementation that can help take you to the next level. Or I think it's also powerful for people who want to get into an exercise routine but they get fatigued really easily. You know, especially just even people who and I say older, I include myself in that as, like they start to get towards 50. Like I find that, like I do a hard workout and I don't recover the same way that I used to, and so this is a really powerful tool to kind of meet people wherever they are on their fitness journey. So if you're new and you need some support, if you're working out and you kind of want to take it to the next, or you're a performance athlete, this can also help. And we have some really interesting data, specifically, like you had mentioned, our data in our sedentary adults. We have this is unpublished data that I'm hoping will be published soon looking in active Olympic-trained endurance athletes, because these are people that we think are already doing all the things for their mitochondria right, they're eating, right, they're exercising but their mitochondria are actually damaged too, because it's almost like overuse. There's so much inflammation that can happen after you do an extreme workout, and so you know, this study was incredible. As I said, it was done with these Olympic-trained endurance athletes. They were at training camps, so food was measured, their exercise was measured. Training camp, so food was measured, their exercise was measured and hooked up to all the you know machines to get all of their biometrics and what the story seems to be there and we're still sort of analyzing the data is this recovery, and I hear that all the time and that's something I've noticed. So what we're seeing is a lot of those inflammatory markers that peak after an intense exercise workout, like C-reactive protein. Those are all lowered much more quickly. The runners also noticed their rate of perceived exertion was improved. So we're putting them on the same treadmill workout as the group that is getting the placebo, so they are working as hard, but they don't feel like they are working as hard as the placebo group. So that's more to uncover and unpack when that study gets published and we have more data.

31:11 But I hear that very often is like I don't get sore after a workout. You know, even this is an anecdotal story, but, like I had put my mom on this, she's 75. Well, at the time she was 75 and very fit. She happens to be a personal trainer. She works out with a trainer, but she'd have a back procedure, so she was going to be not working out for six weeks and you know, as a woman in her seventies, I was really concerned about her muscle loss.

31:34 That was going to happen. So I put her on urolithin A, put her on Mito Pure and while she was taking it she actually like didn't feel like she felt anything at first. And and then she went back to her gym and went back to her trainer and she was like, oh my God, I like felt as great as I felt like before I went for surgery. I mean not the pain piece, obviously, but she felt like she didn't have to start over again, she was not sore the next day, she felt like she had a great workout and like didn't feel like she was just had to start from like the ground floor again, and I hear those types of stories all the time, which is really, really nice.

32:10 - Chase (Host) I'm raising my hand over here because I'm in the same boat and ever since taking your lithium a daily now for over two years, I it is. It's gotten into my head sometimes about, oh, chase, you're not really working out that hard anymore because you're not sore. And when I kind of get analytical, I go back to like, no, I look at my old school principles, I look at my frequency, intensity, time and type of training and I'm like, no, like I did the work, I did the work, I did the reps, I did the frequency. You know, I'm feeling great, I'm within kind of this, this happy range of body composition for my personal preference, and my biomarkers are great and all this stuff like nothing else has dipped. But I'm like, why am I not getting sore anymore? And I'm like, oh, it's gotta be the urolithin A. And I've shared this story with my audience before when I talk about MitoPure and that's. I did a personal test to really see if this was influencing me the way that I thought it was. I did a personal test to really see if this was influencing me the way that I thought it was.

33:09 And at the beginning of 2024, I went off of urolithin A for about six weeks and when I tell you, you know I didn't like, oh my God, I'm dying I feel like crap. It wasn't like that, but it was, hands down, one of the most noticeable changes in my baseline energy. And then in that window I began to get more sore again, I began to really feel my workouts and then again I got analytical. Okay, chase, you didn't start a new workout program, you didn't try to kill yourself in the gym any more than you're already doing. In fact, if anything, around the same time period beginning of 2024, my training frequency and intensity definitely dropped Life, some other issues and I was. My training frequency and intensity definitely dropped life, some other issues, and I was actually not training the same way that I used to. I said, but okay, so if that's dipped, why am I? If I'm not working out as much, why am I getting more sore? Went back on your lethan A, no muscle soreness raise the bar again in my daily baseline energy.

34:05 So I think this is really worth noting that someone like myself and I feel like a lot of people listening, watching this podcast you're already regularly active. You know, maybe we're not all training for a competition, or you know high performing endurance athletes, you know professional athletes, something like that. But the Everford Radio listener definitely cares about moving their body and feeling well and moving well for as long as possible, and so could you kind of shift gears and go that angle more for us. So we talked about how we saw significant improvements in a middle age sedentary group of people in terms of increased strength and endurance. This matters should matter more for someone like me, right? Someone like my audience member that is regularly active has these peaks and valleys in their training, maybe through injury, lifestyle. Whatever. I had an amazing experience with it. I still do. Why does it matter for someone like myself, and what benefits can we realistically see?

35:01 - Jen (Guest) So you know the benefits, obviously right, in just your day-to-day performance for sure, right. But mitochondrial decline and muscle decline these things are happening as we get older, right? These things actually start in our 30s and these were things I really wish I had known in my 30s and didn't. You know, I was a cardio queen and now I've really completely changed that to being much more of a strength training queen or princess. Maybe I haven't made a queen status yet, but I think for people that are younger either like early middle age or just even younger than that right, these are the things. That's almost like you know. It's almost like your investment fund. You're like 401k of your mitochondrial health. Like 401k of your mitochondrial health. If you are building up this bank and helping to just keep your muscles in a healthy state when you're younger, the hope is these activities that you're doing today are going to make a difference 20 years down the line.

35:57 - Chase (Host) I'm here to tell you, once you cross over your 30s, you should care a lot more just about maintenance. What's the best way I can say this? I feel like my training, my 30s, my mid to late 30s honestly has been so focused around muscle maintenance, body composition maintenance and, yeah, I cannot speak enough about that.

36:20 - Jen (Guest) Absolutely, I agree, and the interesting thing about urolithin A is what we're seeing, though, also is we did that study in middle-aged adults. We now are looking at it in terms of performance in younger adults, but we also did a study in older, sedentary adults, so people who were 65 and older, and that was another, you know, randomized, double-blind placebo-controlled trial. That was with a higher dose of 1,000 milligrams of urolithin A, and in that study that you know, these again were sedentary. You know, average age 70. And what we saw was that in this group the muscle endurance was also increased, and with a thousand milligrams, after just eight weeks, which is after two months, we saw a 17% improvement in muscle endurance. So this is something that I really believe.

37:03 Wherever you are on the age spectrum like we haven't tested it in children, so I would not go there in terms of like people under age 18.

37:09 But you know, I think anyone who's in their like 20s, 30s, all the way up to.

37:14 You know there was somebody who was 90 in that study and it's interesting our chief medical officer talks about you know, our studies are blinded, so we don't know who is getting what and he talks about this one woman who was in her 90s and she was like I'm sure I'm on the supplement, I'm sure I'm not on the placebo, because she was a big gardener and she was like noticing that she had so much more energy and was like able to be more active in her garden. And then when we unblinded the data, it turned out like, yes, she was right. So any age can potentially feel a benefit from this, because our mitochondria, you know, they're not just like static at one point in your life, there's something that they are constantly recycling. They are constantly being utilized. They're giving ourselves energy. You know, if we have daily stressors when we're younger, it can help us feel more resilient to those daily stressors. And then, of course, the decline that's happening as we get older. It can help to kind of counterbalance that and slow some of that decline down.

38:10 - Chase (Host) Yeah, there was another study again. I'll have it linked in the show notes that I found from the NIH, the National Library of Medicine, and this was I'm trying to find the date. It wasn't that long ago, I believe it was 2023. And it was talking about the pharmacological effects of urolithin A and its role in muscle health and performance. And, to your point here, talking about maintaining muscle, it shows that urolithin A exhibits diverse biological activities, encompassing anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-tumor and anti-aging properties. Then, in terms of muscle health, evidence suggests that urolithin A promotes muscle protein synthesis and muscle growth through various pathways, offering promise in mitigating muscle atrophy.

38:56 So there's the science version of what we just talked about. Is there a type of person or an age group of person that you feel would have the most benefits from prioritizing their daily wellness routine supplementation diet with urolithin A, or is it pretty universal across the board? Do we reach any kind of saturation point or do we need to really wait until, biologically speaking, we're seeing that natural dip in mitochondrial health and revitalization? You know so maybe I guess the point that I'm trying to make is because sometimes, with supplementation specifically, we're taking something unnecessarily. We're taking something that our body is already pretty good at, or just through daily activities, sleep, diet, things like that. It can stay the course. So is there anybody that this might not best serve? Or getting ahead of the curve, so to speak? With urethane are you only going to be enhancing muscular strength, endurance, and then, of course, we're seeing more promise for longevity.

40:00 - Jen (Guest) So a couple of thoughts on that. So the first thing is our studies and I'm not talking about that one on endurance athletes that's not published yet. So our published data the youngest really is in that we've seen were in our 40s. So when we look at like actual clinical data which is, I think, where we have to start before we start talking about, like you know, what clinicians might be doing with their patients or what somebody might be doing for themselves doing with their patients or what somebody might be doing for themselves, so the clinical data really, like the youngest is in their 40s and I think honestly that is probably the bulk of people that start looking at this, because I think it's at that point in people's lives where they're either seeing their parents go through the aging process and they're really kind of trying to clean up their act, or they're noticing sort of their own, you know, not healing the way that they used to, or their energy is low or they're not recovering. So that's usually, I think, sort of the sweet spot of where people are starting and I think would be a great place. But as based on the research, but I think, as we think about how we know that the cellular processes and the muscle processes that happen in aging happen at a younger age, in our 30s. There is really a case that could be made. If you start doing these things at a younger time. There could be a benefit. We just don't necessarily have the research to back that up.

41:15 The other thing that I think is important to say is you know a lot of like the role of a dietary supplement, like and outside of people who are using, like either in like the biohacking community or using dietary supplements to really rev up what you're doing. My role, my thought on dietary supplements is they're meant to be a crutch for things that are missing in your diet, that you can't get in your diet. So vitamin D, for example. Most people are deficient in vitamin D. We're not getting out enough in the sun in the winter months. We don't get enough from food. We should take vitamin D. We're not getting out enough in the sun in the winter months. We don't get enough from food. We should take vitamin D.

41:51 Urolithin A is similar in that sense because remember, we talked about the fact that it's a postbiotic, so we need our gut to make it for us. However, we have studied various populations around the world at this point and the vast majority of people don't have the right gut microbiome to make it. And even like we we worked with you know some health, some practitioners like doctors and who are doing, like the, everything they possibly can to make to have a healthy gut and they don't produce urolifin A where you have the ability to test this. And I think you know the reason for that is is twofold.

42:22 Like I know myself, for example, I'm very conscious of gut health and making sure that I'm eating a rich diet and polyphenols and fiber. But I was a bottle fed baby and I was a C-section baby, so at the beginning of my life, like I just didn't get inoculated with all the goodies that I should have. So most people aren't making it, even if they think they have a healthy gut. It's really only about 30 to 40% of the population has the gut microbiome to make it. And even if you do have but this is something that we can make.

42:50 - Chase (Host) That's an important point to make. I don't think I was clear. That's my mistake. This is something the body can naturally produce it but, if I'm hearing you correctly, even despite best efforts, sometimes we are not in the most ideal gut microbiome situation to be able to produce it at all but also be in enough quantities to get these benefits we're talking about, correct.

43:13 - Jen (Guest) Exactly, exactly. So you know what I had mentioned. We have these little critters, these microbes that live inside us. You know only a select few of them are the urolithin A producers, and if you don't have any of that particular strain, you're not going to get this, and we don't know what strain makes it, so we can't even say take this probiotic and you can bypass it. The other thing that we've seen in our studies, so the dosing that we've talked about for these effects that we've seen on muscle, is 500 or 1,000 milligrams and in order to get a therapeutic like so, if you have the right gut microbiome and you can produce it, you'd actually have to have six cups of pomegranate juice to get that same therapeutic effect of a 500 milligram dietary supplement, and that's-.

43:57 - Chase (Host) No, my in-laws would love to hear that, because they're Persian and they put pomegranates on everything and some of them might even be pretty close.

44:04 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I'm. You know. I'm always curious about, like you know, populations that just traditionally eat a lot of you know, pomegranates, if they tend to be better.

44:12 - Chase (Host) A lot of pomegranates and walnut oil, cause I know we can get your from walnut oil as well, correct?

44:17 - Jen (Guest) You can get, so your gut can make it from the polyphenols. And there it is. There it is Okay, yep. So that's the key thing. It's not directly available from food, so we're relying on our gut to make it from what we eat. So that's where it gets a little tricky.

44:30 - Chase (Host) Maybe here's a new clinical trial for you guys, pulling samples of who creates the most amount of natural urolithin A. I'd be really curious to see if a Middle Eastern population has naturally occurring, or higher levels, at least, of urolithin A naturally.

44:48 - Jen (Guest) We might know that I'll have to do some digging. So I know we've checked different populations. The US and Canada are the worst producers. No shock there, because most of us are not and we're testing the general population right. So most of us are not eating a very gut, healthy diet. We're not eating enough of the dietary precursors. I think France has a higher amount of producers. Interestingly, I suspected that India would have a high amount because they eat such a polyphenol rich diet. They're not great producers and our chief medical officer, who's Indian? He believes it's because they use antibiotics so frequently to help like when you know when kids get sick, so they're killing the microbiome.

45:25 Yeah, yeah. So you know, I think that would be really interesting to look at. I'd have to get back to you if we've looked at Middle Eastern communities and see?

45:33 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I'd be curious. And then I wonder for the French population, is it because assumption here the higher consumption of alcohol, red wine, I don't know. Is there anything else in the French diet?

45:57 - Jen (Guest) You know, I think it's just again it's more of like a whole I don you know. I we didn't really study the why, just more the who and and what what we're producing, but I will. I will put a note to look at the Middle Eastern culture, cause I think that's probably would be interesting to know which brings me to my next question.

46:14 - Chase (Host) Is there a test for us? You know, can we get a lab test, a biomarker test to go? Hey, I want to know do I have urolithin A and at what quantities? So I know if I should focus on all right, I need to revamp or increase my gut microbiome to bring up these levels of urolithin A, or should I consider supplementation? Is there a test for urolithin A?

46:33 - Jen (Guest) So we have a test that's part of our clinical trials, as we can put the link in your show notes I think it's like challengemitopurecom, but don't quote me on that and what it is is you sign up and there's no cost because you're part of our clinical trial. And what we do is we send you an eight ounces of pomegranate juice. It's a little like finger stick dried blood spot. We send you pomegranate juice, you drink that, you take the little blood test, then you take MitoPure. You do the same blood test, you send it back to the lab and'll show you is any urolithin A in your blood after the pomegranate juice and how much, and then how much is in your blood after you take the MitoPure, so you can do a little bit of a comparison.

47:13 It's not going to tell you your gut is healthy or not. It's not going to tell you like you should have more. You know probiotics. It's just going to say like, do you have the ability of pomegranate juice into your erythin A at all? And then you know again, even if you can convert into your erythin A, you'd have to have those six cups of pomegranate juice to get your blood levels to the same as what you'll see after you take 500 milligrams of your erythin A.

47:40 - Chase (Host) So it's, you know Now drinking six cups of pomegranate juice a day, would you advise? Are there any downfalls to that? I mean, it's all natural, right, it's just good juice, but we're talking a lot of naturally occurring sugars, but sugars nonetheless.

47:54 - Jen (Guest) There's like 30 grams of sugar in a cup. I would say that's a definite no right. I can't think of a single instance why I would want someone to drink six cups of pomegranate juice a day. I love pomegranates. Eat them If you want to have some pomegranate juice, that's fine.

48:07 But for your urolithin a like, I suspect, like the sugar damage that would happen from having, you know, six cup of pomegranate juice a day probably outweighs any benefit that you're gonna get from you know, this is one of those things you know, I think, if you, I think there's an argument to be made that if you are a producer and you have a robust production, when you do this test and and you do eat a lot of it's walnuts, pecans, it's not just pomegranates, it's dark skin berries and you have a diet that includes a lot of those every day, could you get away with like 500 milligrams instead of in a thousand dose or potentially even 250 milligrams, maybe. I think there's an argument that could be made, but I would not want someone to drink six cups of pomegranate juice. Okay, yeah, fair point, fair point.

48:51 - Chase (Host) I would love to shift into uh dosing and time actually, if we could, with your lithon a. So, like I said, I, um, I kind of just I looked at my episode actually with uh, the co-founder of timeline, chris wrench. He was on the show back in January 2023, episode 670. I'll have that link for everybody in the show notes, as always, and so it was about two or three months before that I started MitoPure. So I have been quite literally probably this month, as we're recording October 2024, now at if not a little bit over two years, of daily urolithin A consumption through MitoPure, daily urolithin A consumption through MitoPure. And up until last week I've just been doing the daily dose, 500 milligrams of urolithin A.

49:34 But actually through talking to a few other people, some wellness homies in the field, they were telling me oh no, like we're seeing actually even more unique benefits in terms of feeling performance recovery, improved health benefits in terms of feeling performance recovery, improved health benefits overall by taking it more in a fasted state first thing in the morning and even doubling the dose. So I've been doing that so up for the last two years now. Up until now I have been taking it more or less in the morning when I kind of take my other supplements, but it's usually around my first meal with some calories, with some protein, a little bit of fat or a whole meal. And so now what I'm doing is I'm taking double the dose. I'm taking 1,000 milligrams of urolithin A first thing in the morning with water, in a fasted state, and I'm curious, other than just kind of my self-test, what unique benefits do you think someone could see from taking urolithin A in a fasted or non-fasted state and the 500 milligrams versus 1,000 milligram dose?

50:31 - Jen (Guest) Let's start first with the 500 versus 1,000 and then go into the timing and fasting. So we've done studies with 500 and 1,000 milligrams and do see significant benefits with both. It appears that when you go to that 1,000 milligram dose you are getting sort of a more robust benefit and the benefits seem to happen a little bit faster, and that's for muscle. But the study that I sort of mentioned, I'm talking about Sorry, muscle.

51:01 What do you mean specifically by muscle, muscle strength, muscle strength and endurance yeah, we are now starting to shift some research into some other areas, right? So we're starting to look at immune function, for example, right, our immune cells are, you know, also energy dependent from our mitochondria, and so we also. We just finished a study which I'm hoping should be published pretty soon. This was healthy middle-aged adults and we did this deep phenotyping of almost every single immune cell that's in their body and that was in a thousand milligram study. After one month we saw these robust improvements in mitochondrial function, mitochondrial number in these immune cells, the immune cells we had more of the types of immune cells that are these early scavengers of disease and infection and even cancer. They were more metabolically active. So that was at a thousand milligram dose. So I think the question is also starting to become what's your goal by taking your erythinae? That recovery study also with the endurance athletes, that was also a 1000 milligram dose as well. So here's how I look at it.

52:06 I personally take 500 milligrams. I'm sort of a middle-aged, healthy, physically fit person. My parents I have on a thousand milligrams because they are in a greater state of mitochondrial decline. When I'm traveling, stressed or like revving up my training, for some reason, I boost it up to a thousand, but on sort of maintenance dose I boost it up to 1,000. But on sort of maintenance dose, I take 500 as sort of like my regular dose.

52:38 Now somebody who is not active and maybe is looking again to like get some support as they start some exercise routine, 1,000 might be a great place to start and then scale back to 500. So people are playing around with the dosing and I think as we study this more and more and look at other areas where it can potentially help, right, like you know, if we're looking even at things like potentially brain health down the line, right there might be different doses that are going to be better for different systems in the body. Great place to start, notice, if you have any benefits, if you are still not feeling it, go up to 1,000. Or if you're somebody who's really struggling with fatigue, brain fog, something like that, and you need a little bit more oomph, start at 1,000 and then maybe scale back to 500. So I think that's how people can play around with it.

53:20 Now, in terms of fasted, not fasted, our studies were all done fasted in the morning, but we've also, you know, the studies that have looked at like blood concentrations of urolithin A. Those are done on people who are not necessarily fasting at different times of day, so we are seeing that the body is still getting saturated with it, no matter what time of day that you take it. I do know some of the people that are really like into sports performance are sort of timing it around either their workouts or it peaks in your bloodstream at around six to eight hours, so they're kind of timing it with that.

53:53 - Chase (Host) For me personally, that is oh, I didn't know that part really. So when you take it six to eight hours, you have the most concentration in your bloodstream. You have the most readily available.

54:02 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, that's when it's kind of peaked, which is why some people are even considering taking it at night, because then you get into like more autophagy or mitophagy overnight.

54:11 For me personally and the vast majority of people that I like work with, that is over complicating it, like I think that we're getting to in the modern new show here, really for general purposes the time of day that you're most likely to remember to take it is the best time of day to take it right, like to be honest, like I've had some people tell me that they take it at night and they feel actually more alert in the morning when they get up. So I started trying to take it at night. I forget to take supplements at night, like I just don't. I take them in the morning and I was like forget it. I've now skipped it like three days in a row.

54:40 - Chase (Host) This If you take it before you go to bed, most people, if you're getting six to eight hours of sleep, that is probably why, would you assume, when you wake up these people. They're feeling better.

54:56 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, exactly.

54:57 And maybe if you're someone who works out in the morning, maybe then that makes sense to take it at night. And I think this is just. People are experimenting on their own. We don't really have any science to back this up. As I said, we just, you know, for simplicity of a protocol, we just say it in the morning, fasted, but it also doesn't matter if you're fasted or not. Your body's going to absorb it, whether you know, because we actually have it as a soft gel. So there's a, you know, a pill form. There's also a powder form that's meant to be mixed into food. I mean, that's the design of it, and they both have the same bioavailability and the same efficacy. So it really doesn't matter if you take it with or without food. It won't break a fast. The food based one obviously will, but the soft rice it won't break a fast.

55:43 But I, you know, I haven't seen any like strong evidence that you know it has to be done fasting. You can absorb it. The gut is primed to absorb this because the gut should be making it on its own right. It doesn't need any sort of other carrier molecule to get it in.

55:59 - Chase (Host) Okay. So then it kind of begs the other question of well, if 500 gives us all these traditional benefits, 1,000 is a little bit more for acute application, high stress, higher training. Maybe you're someone who's super low energy, not quite in a regular routine with training or healthy habits. What about 1,500 milligrams? What about 2,000? What about cycling on and off or cycling high dose, low dose?

56:25 - Jen (Guest) So we have tested higher than a thousand milligrams and the benefits seem to plateau. At that. You kind of just get saturated. So there's really no. There doesn't seem to be any safety concern with taking more, but there just really doesn't seem to be any benefit. So you know why do something if there's no benefit to that. Right Like we are taking, so many supplements and pills Like I don't, I don't see any reason to take any more.

56:48 - Chase (Host) Save your pills, save your money.

56:49 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, exactly, but people are. As I said, we don't have the studies to back this up, but people are playing around to the head with like cycling, maybe doing 750 milligrams instead of 1000 milligrams, trying to kind of like stretch out their order and play around with that. And I think if you are doing that and you feel a benefit, that's great. I think if there's benefits at 500 milligrams and there's benefits at 1,000 milligrams we don't have the clinical data to show there's a benefit at 750, but I would imagine there are. It might not be statistically significant, but I think people can play with that and with their own lifestyle and their own regimen. Or if you're a healthcare practitioner and you're working and coaching somebody, I think those can play with that and with their own sort of lifestyle and their own regimen. Or if you're a health care practitioner and you're kind of working and coaching somebody, I think those are the things that you can use your clinical judgment and play with. But the clinical data is at 500 milligrams and a thousand milligrams.

57:40 - Chase (Host) Yeah, what comes to mind for me here is really the underlying importance of know thyself, know your baseline, and I'll kind of I don't know, I don't know if I said this when I was talking about when I started doubling my dose recently, this past one to two weeks. It's because I'm very aware of you, know what I'm doing, what I'm not doing, season of life, and where I'm at right now is I'm in another dip of my training frequency. I'm in another dip of my just ability to know for sure that I have as much control over my daily health variables as I would like, and what I mean by that is I've been in a heavy travel season. I'm talking bi-coastal multiple times a week. I'm talking weddings, I'm talking life stressors, getting into the holidays and, you know, business growth and all this stuff, and so there's a part of, I think, anybody that can relate to that and go oh my gosh, life is crazy, I'm living in chaos, I, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't. You know, I can't keep up, I can't train or I can't make the healthy choices that I want to make when it comes to my diet.

58:51 Now, there's a lot of information in that and we can get stuck in the I can't, I can't, I can't, or life is too crazy right now or go, oh okay, all right, because of what is going on, I'm still going to try to hold as many you know lines as possible in my you know wellness habits but, for whatever reason or reasons, I just can't quite keep up with what I want to do, what I like to do for me.

59:15 So what can I do about that? And which is why I'm leaning heavily in to increasing my dose of urolithin A and a few other manipulations in my diet and especially supplementation, because, all right, I need to really focus on immune health, I need to really focus on protein consumption and maintenance calories so that I don't lose muscle mass, that I don't atrophy, that I don't you know. Go back into the gym and I'm like, oh man, I got to really drop my weight, drop my reps, because that is just a slippery slope into, you know, that unreal or that non-ideal routine becoming your new norm For sure, and I know that that's how it starts.

59:55 you know, from personal experience in my years in clinic as a health coach, I can't tell you how many times I would sit down across the table from somebody and go like, oh geez, I blinked and it's been five years, 10 years, and like I just haven't gone to the gym. Or I blinked and I'm 20, 30 pounds overweight, or I just, you know, it hurts my back, hurts to bend over to put on my shoes or play with my kids, and I know, right here, right now, this is where that begins. And so I'm taking all those data points and just going all right. What can I do to hold the line as much as possible and also lean on the things that I know that already work for me? Again, know thyself.

01:00:35 I know that these rituals, these routines, this key supplementation, adds a lot of value to my life. So let me just double down on some of the things that I know work. And it's even greater because with your Lith and A, I can double down on some of the things that I know work. And it's even greater because with urolithin A, I can double down based on personal experience. But the 10, 12, almost 15 years now pushing 15 years of clinical research, human clinical research. So that's just you know, kind of my personal soapbox rant about it, but you know, I think anybody can hear that and relate. You know, don't get defeated, don't allow yourself to become defeated. Lean into the things that you know, that work, and just give yourself grace for the season of life that you're in. And just you know. Revamp a couple of things.

01:01:16 - Jen (Guest) I love that Right. I think we all have to respect the season of life that we're in, and everything can't be perfect all the time. That's just life, right, and that's why we train the way that we do and we eat the way we do, so we can be resilient and bounce back to these things that you know, these curveballs that life gives us, and know that there are tools to help bridge these gaps. So I love what you said. I couldn't agree more.

01:01:39 - Chase (Host) Yeah, and I think again, personally speaking, I'm someone who's been training strength training active for, I mean hell, his whole life. But you know, really, I'd say really daily, probably the last like 15, 20 years, um, and it almost, it almost like doesn't make sense how I'm able to keep my current body composition Cause. Again, I know my frequency, training style, intensity, time and type. I know that you know that hasn't been as much as I would like. I know that my diet has slipped man these days. I am just, I'm ecstatic if I can hit 100 grams of protein a day.

01:02:15 I, you know, I have training of education. I also have a lot of years of personal experience and I know that these are the things that humans across the board have to do in order to maintain muscular strength, endurance, body composition. In order to maintain muscular strength, endurance, body composition. Now I'm definitely, I'm probably running, I'd say, three to five pounds more body fat that I personally like to run at. But in terms of just my frame, my size, my muscle mass, it doesn't make sense. And I am not taking any performance enhancing drugs. I stopped. I was on testosterone replacement therapy almost a year and a half ago and so you know that might be an explanation, but I'm not doing anything else and for me it keeps coming back to all right, what are you doing? What does the science say? And urolithin A, I feel like has been one of, if not the biggest, contributing factors to helping me keep a healthy body composition, a preferred body composition that doesn't send me spiraling mentally.

01:03:14 - Jen (Guest) Yeah, I mean I, you know again, I don't know that there's like science to necessarily like link those two things, but here's my thought process right, if your mitochondria are more metabolically active, right, and they are converting this food that you eat into energy for your body to use and to be fuel, that makes sense. You know, the other thing that I think that's so important is, you know, when you just are feeling better, right? So even if you're not exercising the way that you want and you're not eating the way that you really like, want to, but you still are fueling yourselves with as much, you know, nutrient dense food as possible, and there you're getting your lithium and you're just have better energy through the day, it is easier to make the most of the little windows that you have to eat. Well, you know, that's one of the things I noticed with myself is, like I call it like a subtle energy that I have where I it's not.

01:04:05 It's not like taking, you know, caffeine or like if you get a B12 injection and you get this like energetic boost. It's more like I just get through my day. I'm somebody who tends to work out at the end of the day, so I do a full workout, a full work day, I work out, I make dinner like, and I'm not crashing, and so when things get busy, you can be more mindful. You're not just like reaching for, like or or going through drive-through, or like reaching for, like, the junk that's in the fridge, like you still have the energy to make the most of those smaller windows of of time. That's that's crazy and stressful. So I think there's a lot of things that go into that.

01:04:38 - Chase (Host) To have the energy to be able to make the best possible decision despite being out of your preferred routine is goals. I mean, that is where that's the wedge that starts in the slippery slope of you blink and you're 10, 20 pounds overweight, you're chronically inflamed, poor sleep you know all the things I just talked about. So I mean I think that's such an important point to drive home.

01:05:06 - Jen (Guest) right there we're sort of changing gears a little bit but I'm putting my health coach hat on for a second, but I, you know. So I mean Iining that in and finding tools that can help us, you know, a have grace with ourselves and B, just make these smarter decisions that aren't going to have us snowball right. I mean, there's been nights where I'm like I had ice cream for dinner tonight, guys like not proud of it, but like did it, and you know what. That's gone, and the next day like I'm back to my routine and I think that's is sort of the is sort of. The difference is that we, we have a really honed in on that skill set of resilience and have tools that help us make decisions that don't snowball as quickly.

01:06:01 - Chase (Host) So true, so true, and you know what we're kind of talking about here. Brings me to my final question, jen, and that's, you know, the mindset component of taking care of yourself, your health span, your lifespan. And where the mind goes, the body will follow. And the last question I ask everybody, or a question I ask everybody on the show here, is ever forward. Those two words. What does it mean to you If I were to ask you what does it mean to live a life ever forward? How do you live a life ever forward? What does that look like to you?

01:06:35 - Jen (Guest) So to me, I think, thinking ever forward and this is something I think a lot about as I get older, right is how can I keep doing as much of the things that I love that bring me joy for as long as possible ever into the future, right?

01:06:45 And whether it's, you know, I have come to a place where I actually like love working out, whereas in a much of a younger stage of my life it was much more of like a weight control issue, whereas now I do it for the joy of moving my body and just how I feel when I do it.

01:07:02 And so that's I think the biggest mind shift you know that I've had is finding things that bring me joy, that also happen to be good for me, and finding that perfect marriage of them and giving myself a lot of grace, kind of, as we were talking about that, that life is not perfect. Life throws you snowballs, or curveballs, I should say and being really resilient to those things and thinking a lot about you know we talked a little bit about like the things that younger people can do to set themselves up, like I think about that a lot, like where do I want my life to be at? In you know, like cause, I hope I'm going to be here in my seventies, eighties and nineties, right, and what are the things that I'm doing today that are going to help me live the best life, not only now, but into the future as well?

01:07:53 - Chase (Host) Never a right or wrong answer. I appreciate everyone's interpretation. Jen, I'm going to have all of your information and all the you know, the science and studies that we talked about in the show notes for everybody, and it's been a true joy to get to work with Timeline. These last two years. I have had just incredible.

01:08:06 I've had an incredible experience using MitoPure you know, the product with urolithin A here from Timeline Nutrition and again, we've got a great partnership with you guys and I'm going to have all that link down in the show notes for everybody. But if you want to learn more about why I love it, the science behind it, all the things, you can head to TimelineNutritioncom slash EverForward, ever forward. We got a great discount for you to check it out and I also know we haven't really talked about it, but, talking with other members on the team, I know you all are expanding the lineup soon, having some different offers, some different products and just even more amazing, more economic, more different applications, just different types to different ways to get your lignin a into your body so that everyone can get these benefits. I've loved, loved, loved using this and I'll say it one more time If I could only pick one supplement to take for the rest of my life, daily. It would be MitoPure. It would be this year's lithium-A product.

01:09:04 - Jen (Guest) I love it. You made my job super easy.

01:09:07 - Chase (Host) Yeah. For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode show notes or head to everforwardradiocom.