EFR 832: Cellular Fragility Syndrome - Newly Discovered Cause of Insulin Resistance, Type 2 Diabetes, Fatty Liver Disease and Aging with Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production. We're in a world of a new nutrient deficiency and in fact, you're here to share that. One in three people have this new nutritional deficiency of C15. Walk us through this. Do most people even know what C15 is?

00:17 - Stephanie (Guest) Most don't. Yeah, so C15 is an odd chain saturated fatty acid, one that we've known about, for, you know, since the 1950s this nutrient has been known. It just hasn't been known until recently that not only is it a beneficial nutrient or fatty acid, it's essential. So what we have discovered since then and it was really pulling together 10 years of studies coming from us and others, and what's culminated from that chase is that we now understand that if we don't have enough C15, which, and again, this should happen, if it's truly an essential fatty acid that our cells physically become more fragile, because C15's job is to stabilize our cell membranes. One of its core roles is that it's a stable fatty acid resistant to lipid peroxidation.

01:03 Our cell membranes have to have. At least 0.2% of our cell membranes of all the fatty acids needs to be C15. It's like having enough bricks in our cell membranes to keep them stable, and without having enough C15, it causes what we're calling cellular fragility syndrome, and this is the C15 deficiency. So, like vitamin C deficiency in scurvy, c15 deficiency and cellular fragility syndrome so self-explanatory our cells become more fragile, we age faster. Hi, I'm Dr Stephanie Van Watson, veterinary epidemiologist and one of the discoverers that C15 is the first essential fatty acid to be found in over 90 years. Excited here talking with Chase, and this is Ever Forward.

01:56 - Chase (Host) Welcome back to Ever Forward Radio. I am your host, chase Tuning, certified health coach, army veteran, wellness enthusiast and entrepreneur, and I am so excited to welcome back my team from Fatty 15. I'm sitting down with Dr Stephanie Van Watson, and I say welcome back because just a few months ago, earlier this year, I had her husband, dr Eric Van Watson, on the show to bring our attention this incredible new discovery of an essential fat called C15, the saturated fat that it turns out many, many, many of us are not getting in our diet, and there's a really, really cool backstory as to how they discovered this in nature through this experience working with naval dolphins. I'm going to link that episode down in the show notes for you. If you would like to learn more about the origin, the discovery of C-15, this essential fatty acid, I would encourage you to go ahead and check that out. But what we're diving into today with Stephanie is this incredible new finding that it's not enough that we know about C-15. It's now that most of us are, in fact, deficient, and this is where their new literature and the new science is pointing us in the direction that this is not just something that we can benefit from, but it is, in fact, essential. We need it. Our bodies are not making it. We're not getting it from our diet anymore, and this is leading to a myriad of other unwanted health effects.

03:18 Today's episode we're talking about cellular fragility syndrome. This is a deep dive on nutritional C15 deficiencies and, more importantly, how to fix them. I'm going to link C15 information, fatty 15 information, a lot of this research we're talking about in this episode down in the show notes, and this is coming from this really big paper that was just published on a newly discovered nutritional C15 deficiency syndrome called cellular fragility syndrome, and this is a huge deal, because nutritional deficiency syndromes like vitamin C deficiency and scurvy, or vitamin D deficiency and rickets are rarely discovered. These are things that we think are done in the past. We have moved on from them, we have evolved in terms of healthcare and nutrition and we're no longer needing to worry about a nutrient deficiency. Well, I don't know. Pump the brakes on that. This latest paper describes how deficiencies in C15 and essential fatty acid can cause fragile cells and a phenomenon called fair optosis this new way that we are seeing cells die In turn. Fair optosis accelerates aging and impacts our metabolic, liver, heart health and so much more.

04:26 Stephanie was in studio with me, so if you'd like to check out the video, I'll have it linked for you, as always in the show notes. You can find us at ever forward radiocom or head over to youtube and subscribe to the channel and join us over there on video. And I would like to thank stephanie, eric and the whole team over fatty 15 for continuing to believe in the show. You guys have been crushing the support with Fatty15 this year and they are bringing this episode to you in its entirety sponsored by Fatty15.

04:53 If you want to learn more about why I love Fatty15 and how to introduce this essential fat into your diet through supplementation with one single, teeny, tiny capsule a day, no more needing to cram down all those fish oil or omega-3 oil supplements, no more fish burps, no more weird tastes no, no, no, no. One single tiny vegan-friendly capsule is all you need. In fact, you can even save 15% off of their 90-day supply starter kit. You got a 30-day money-back guarantee. If you'd like to learn more, save all the dollar-dollar bills. Head to fatty15.com slash everforward to learn more. That's F-A-T-T-Y 1-5 dot com. Slash everforward. Stephanie, welcome to the show.

05:38 - Stephanie (Guest) Chase great being here.

05:39 - Chase (Host) We got you the better half here. For those not in the studio, we got uh eric uh in the audience with us.

05:46 I don't know we're gonna have to argue about the better half part, but wonderful to be here I'm so glad to sit down with you because we have some really exciting, exciting but also very important news in the world of health, wellness, longevity, um, and for anybody interested in learning more, the backstory of c15, it, its discovery kind of the maritime world discovery. If you will, I'm going to link down in the podcast show notes and the video description box here on YouTube Go, check out. It was episode 805 with Dr Eric Van Watson, your husband, for kind of more of that backstory. C15 in general, essential fats, kind of rewriting that narrative of saturated fat and why it's good. But we're here to really dive into this brand new discovery of nutrient deficiency. But before we dive into C15 deficiency, let's kind of let the audience understand more of what are nutrient deficiencies in general. Why do they matter? Why is this concept important for my health today and my longevity tomorrow and year after year?

06:44 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, absolutely important for my health today and my longevity tomorrow and year after year. Yeah, absolutely, I mean geez. When we talk about nutritional deficiencies, right, we're often thinking old day like old timey issues of pirates and scurvy with vitamin C deficiencies.

06:55 And yeah they're alive and well. Today, in fact, there's been a threefold increase in scurvy among children. That just got reported out a couple of weeks ago. So it's timely with regard to talking about nutritional deficiencies, but if we talk about the broader story and the broader picture of it is, it's exactly as it sounds, that there are specific nutrients that we need, of vitamins, essential fatty acids that we need, and if I and we have to get it from our diet because our bodies don't make, it.

07:22 - Chase (Host) So that's what essential means. They're essential because we need to consume them.

07:27 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah right, it's nice it works out that way. And as these essential nutrients, if we don't get enough through our diet, we don't have enough in our bodies. The consequence of that is a direct nutritional deficiency or nutritional deficiency syndrome. We just talked about a scurvy and vitamin C deficiency, vitamin D deficiency causing rickets. Vitamin B12 was the last one, prior to this one.

07:52 - Chase (Host) Nutrient deficiencies are not new. They kind of ebb and flow with time and nutrition and culture are mistakes really. But the seven common nutrient deficiencies right now pulling this article from Healthline are iron, iodine, vitamin D, vitamin B12, vitamin A, calcium and magnesium. So these should not really be super foreign to most people. Can you kind of maybe expand on a couple of those key ones and what people might be experiencing? We're talking about? You know, rickets, scurvy.

08:20 - Stephanie (Guest) How does this kind of present Right, so something like vitamin D deficiency. So its role is with regard to helping to strengthen our bones, and it plays a couple of roles. One is it helps us absorb fats it's a fat soluble vitamin and it also helps with regard to calcium and activating this. Having an activated vitamin D, that when you combine vitamin D with calcium, it helps our bones be stronger. And so when you have something like rickets back in the industrial revolution of the London days, it was literally. There was literally so much pollution in the air that the sun didn't make it through to children.

08:57 - Chase (Host) Wait rickets was because of pollution and not getting enough sunlight. I didn't know this.

09:02 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, and so this is where it was first discovered on this population-wide level. So the sun was blocked from the streets in London. Children were not getting exposure to sun which activates the vitamin D. At the same time, there was also a decrease of their intake of milk, so they were getting less calcium. So when they combined the two, they started seeing children getting these bowed leg effects and basically their bones were getting weaker and they were seeing these effects on bone health, especially with regard to children, and they found that at the time the initial fix was. They found that if they fed these children shark livers which I don't know why shark livers?

09:40 - Chase (Host) Yeah, how do they just go? Oh, give them shark, liver. How?

09:43 - Stephanie (Guest) about shark liver set.

09:44 - Chase (Host) More shark liver, governor, do they just go? Oh, give them shark liver how about shark liver?

09:47 - Stephanie (Guest) is that more shark liver?

09:48 - Chase (Host) all right, nice um it's always governor for me any english accent. We're gonna find a way to get london in multiple times.

09:53 - Stephanie (Guest) But, um, that shark liver livers uh, fish liver is very high in vitamin d and they were able then to fix the deficiency syndrome. And that's a key part of a deficiency syndrome is that it's fixable when you get that nutrient back into the body. So they were able to find that that then led to now it's a much better known of cod liver oil of grand. You know our grandparents shoving cod liver oil down their children's throats and saying you've got to have this for your health. It was all actually originated because of vitamin D deficiency.

10:24 - Chase (Host) No way. Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks to my grandmother. She was team chicken liver all the time, just like livers. Just liver, which was disgusting as a five, six-year-old, but I just made a note it kind of made me think about are we just talking about organ meats in general and how important they can be for a lot of vitamin deficiency, important they can be for a lot of vitamin deficiency.

10:42 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, it's a good point that there are organs that concentrate, so liver really good at concentrating not just vitamin D but vitamin A. And so it also helps. So cod liver oil really became popular once we got out of the industrial the 1800s and into the 1900s 1950s, of cod liver oil being really popular because it was helping not only with vitamin D, but vitamin A is what every caring mother gave their child and if you didn't do it, you didn't love your children. You know it's one of those.

11:11 - Chase (Host) Keep calm and liver on apparently right?

11:13 - Stephanie (Guest) Oh yeah, I'm just. I am full of myself today. All right, You're on.

11:17 - Chase (Host) I'm nothing. This is great because I'm about to be a dad, so I got all the dad jokes and just lame one-offs coming.

11:22 - Stephanie (Guest) I think get him out now, maybe for his sake for a little while.

11:26 - Chase (Host) Yeah. So let's jump into what we are realizing now that we are actually in a world where we are, you know, besides scurvy, kind of coming back, we're in a world of a new nutrient deficiency and in fact, you're here to share that one in three people have this new nutritional deficiency of C15. Walk us through this. Do most people even know what C15 is?

11:51 - Stephanie (Guest) Most don't, but they watch you Chase.

11:54 - Chase (Host) So now they do Watch our last episode. Go back, yeah, about 50,000 of them.

11:59 - Stephanie (Guest) See the cuter, cuter.

12:00 - Chase (Host) Ben Watson.

12:01 - Stephanie (Guest) Talk about C15. So, yeah, so C15 is an odd chain saturated fatty acid, one that we've known about, for, you know, since the 1950s this nutrient has been known. It just hasn't been known until recently that not only is it a beneficial nutrient or fatty acid, it's essential. So we must have it, which you covered in that last wonderful conversation. So what we have discovered since then and it was really pulling together 10 years of studies coming from us and others, and what's culminated from that chase is that we now understand that if we don't have enough C15, which, and again, this should happen, if it's truly an essential fatty acid that our cells physically become more fragile, because C15's job is to stabilize our cell membranes. It does a lot of things. It's a promiscuous molecule that does all kinds of good stuff.

12:52 - Chase (Host) Team promiscuity Right, right, it's all good. No judgment.

12:54 - Stephanie (Guest) No judgment and it appreciates that. But one of its core roles is that it's a stable fatty acid resistant to lipid peroxidation. It's a stable fatty acid resistant to lipid peroxidation. Our cell membranes have to have. At least 0.2% of our cell membranes of all the fatty acids needs to be C15. It's like having enough bricks in our cell membranes to keep them stable and without having enough C15, it causes what we're calling cellular fragility syndrome and this is the C15 deficiency. So like vitamin C deficiency and scurvy, C15 deficiency and cellular fragility syndrome so self-explanatory. Our cells become more fragile, we age faster and we can talk through all the consequences of that.

13:38 - Chase (Host) Yeah, let's go there next please. So when we hear that, it's kind of like just imagining what people might be thinking and it's OK, why is this bad? Does this really matter? I'm doing a lot of other things maybe in my life in terms of activity, sleep, nutrition. Is this just something that is being literally put underneath the magnifying lens and overhyped, or should this matter for everybody?

14:01 - Stephanie (Guest) It matters, and it really matters because what we have understood and, again, this interesting list all came from two hits right. This was happening in our fellow large-brained, long-lived species, the dolphins, where they were getting less C15 in their diet at the same time we were, so we have this interesting coinciding effect happen, which is helping to underline why it matters and why we care. So when we talk about with regard to people, our primary source of C15 is from whole dairy fat and butter and we've taken those out of our diets purposely to avoid saturated fats, to not get heart disease and type 2 diabetes.

14:39 - Chase (Host) That's been the prevailing narrative for decades now right yeah, since 1977. Congress. Whole fat bad, saturated fat, bad, that's it.

14:46 - Stephanie (Guest) And so what we now know? It is indisputable. There's evidence far beyond ours. It's meta-analyses doing studies of studies and now multiple meta-analyses, all showing consistently that the higher C15 levels that we have in our blood, the lower our risk of type two diabetes, heart disease, fatty liver disease and certain types of cancer. Beyond association, we also know that C15 has those mechanisms of action that show that it's not just association but causation.

15:17 Oh really Right. So it helps not only strengthen our cell membranes, which then helps with keeping that cell stable, it activates AMPK, it inhibits mDOR I'm like your favorite mechanisms of longevity it inhibits JAKSTAT, which is an important anti-inflammatory. So it has all of these mechanisms that help explain that when C15 has been put to the test explains how it lowers glucose, lowers cholesterol to the test explains how it lowers glucose, lowers cholesterol, decreases the amount of fat and scarring in the liver. And a clinical trial just came out from Dr Jeff Schwimmer at Rady Children's Hospital, leader in fatty liver disease, and he showed that C15 supplementation with and he used fatty 15, that it successfully lowered liver enzymes among people who successfully got their C15 levels above that 0.2%.

16:10 - Chase (Host) No way Wow.

16:11 - Stephanie (Guest) Wow.

16:13 - Chase (Host) So what about men or women? Are we more likely, one or the other, to be more deficient?

16:17 - Stephanie (Guest) It's a good question. So we don't think so. If we had money on the table and I was forced to choose one or the other, I would say that women may be more susceptible to C15 deficiencies.

16:30 - Chase (Host) Why do you think that?

16:31 - Stephanie (Guest) It's more of the manifestation of the effects that we're seeing. So when we get, when our cells become fragile. So why do we care right? Because maybe, if we can't feel it, it doesn't really mean anything. Who cares, Fair cares.

16:44 - Chase (Host) Fair point Right. We now know that it causes our cells to undergo a new form of cell death called ferroptosis. So I have that down. I had to spell it like three times this came up in my research about it being a very important aspect to not only the cellular integrity but overall health, longevity, and especially as it relates to C15 levels.

17:08 - Stephanie (Guest) You got it. So, in 2012, a group of researchers at University of Columbia discovered an entirely new way that our cells were dying. So, prior to this, I would go to cell biology class. I actually didn't get the best grade in that class, ironically, but went to cell biology class in college and you learned there are three ways that your cells die. Right, it's like apoptosis, necrosis and autophagy. That's just how it's always been taught. So these scientists discover a fourth way that our cells are dying. This right, it's like apoptosis, necrosis and autophagy. That's just how it's always been taught. So these scientists discover a fourth way that our cells are dying. This is huge, and so when they discovered it, they published it um 2012. Since then, and they coined the term phoroptosis uh, since then, over 10 000 peer-reviewed papers have been published.

17:52 Chase on ferroptasis, trying to figure out what the heck is this, what it does and why did it show up suddenly out of nowhere? What we do know is it accelerates aging because it speeds up the cell death. It is caused by weak, fragile fatty acids in the cell membrane, which causes lipid peroxidation. It adds, it combines with this mysterious iron that's showing up in the cell. Those combined kicks off this massive reactive oxygen species explosion takes out the cell. So everyone had been able to describe it. They know it's accelerating aging. It makes things like type 2 diabetes, heart disease, fatty liver disease more aggressive, which is what we're seeing in younger and younger people. Nobody knew why until now. So we published this paper showing that when C15 levels are low, that we see all of the components of fructose just as important. When you put C15 back into a cell, it's all fixed.

18:51 - Chase (Host) So it's not just this happens, you're done, you're kind of screwed, but you've reintroduced it into your diet. It can actually kickstart back how it's supposed to.

19:00 - Stephanie (Guest) Exactly True nutritional deficiency syndrome. So it just truly means that we need it, just like the kids back in London. You give them their shark livers, and they were okay again. So same thing here, fixable.

19:12 - Chase (Host) So then, is C15 really this longevity game changer that it sounds like?

19:17 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, yeah it is, and actually it's super fun. The ARDD meeting. So the big anti-aging research and drug development conference, it's all the big wigs in longevity research.

19:28 - Chase (Host) I would love to see that panel.

19:30 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, it's an amazing group. So they're all meeting in Copenhagen in a few weeks. Yeah, it's an amazing group, so they're all meeting in Copenhagen in a few weeks, maybe the next week. And so Nick Shork, who's head of the NIH's Longevity Consortium. Nick is presenting C15 as the longevity molecule, and his argument is there is. He's like I've seen it all. I've seen all the longevity molecules. I've seen rapamycin, metformin, icarbose. There's nothing that has more evidence than C15 for longevity. Stop.

20:01 - Chase (Host) What about things like and I might be out of my league here, so excuse me, but NAD in comparison to that? And even I'm having a blank right now. But even people are going harder on NAD. They're like no, it's not NAD, it's-.

20:14 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, there's NMN, nmn. Yes, right. So how does it stack?

20:16 - Chase (Host) up against NAD and NMN.

20:18 - Stephanie (Guest) It's better and here's why so NAD is it's important. It's gained a lot of attention because it's a cog in the longevity path. So we look at the human longevity pathway. It's this whole wonderfully complex series of pathways that get you to. There are many ways to get to longevity. The whole pathway was created based upon caloric restriction, so if you take down calories, it's kind of a given that we'll live longer. The problem is it's not really sustainable and not eating kind of sucks yeah.

20:52 - Chase (Host) I just want to share it right now. Anybody interested in exactly what you're talking about, go back to I this again. I had an episode with dr charles brenner perfect, and this was his point. He was driving home as to how, yes, we can look at, caloric restriction can contribute to longevity and particularly, we're looking at mice studies. But what really is going on with these mice after the fact they're? They're so dormant and sedentary, they're not reproducing. Their sex drive goes down, so basically they can live longer, but their quality of life significantly diminishes. They're not reproducing, so you're going to have a longer lived species, but for how many more generations?

21:26 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, yeah, yeah and miserable.

21:28 - Chase (Host) Right, yeah, yeah.

21:30 - Stephanie (Guest) But, more importantly, not reproducing is kind of a big deal. So NAD is a cog in this pathway, and so this is the way most longevity scientists have gone about this chase. Right, it's like okay, we have this pathway, we understand all these mechanisms. So if you think about it in the way of a car and an engine which is silly for me because I know nothing about cars and engines, but just-.

21:50 - Chase (Host) It's a fair analogy.

21:51 - Stephanie (Guest) Okay, right, fair enough. There are pieces in the engine that have to work for the car to go well said.

21:56 Okay, we're doing well okay so understanding that that the way that a lot of longevity scientists are going about it is they're saying, hey, we know that we can get, let's try to get a car to run faster and longer, and we know that this is in the engine. So if we mess, not mess with if we adapt this part of the engine, can we then therefore make it result in the car going faster or longer? And so NAD, like increasing NAD, would be an example of increasing or turning up a cog or one reason why the car goes faster or lasts a long time the chances of it just going after that one thing in the engine is low and it's done remarkably well on mouse studies, but when it comes to human studies it's been hit or miss, and NAD is really good at helping cells move along. That also includes cancer cells, unfortunately.

22:53 - Chase (Host) All cells right. It doesn't discriminate. Yeah, good, bad ugly cells, unfortunately. All cells right. It doesn't discriminate. Yeah, good, bad ugly, yeah, yeah.

22:57 - Stephanie (Guest) So there's actually a whole group of researchers who are looking into turning up NAD to, or turning down sorry NAD in order to fight cancer. So it doesn't mean take NAD, you're going to get cancer. It just means it's not, probably not that perfect.

23:15 - Chase (Host) It's something to be aware of, and I hear this also being brought up when we're looking at peptides yes, certain peptides you know it accelerates cell growth, human growth hormone, all growth of all cells, which is why it's a huge, uh you know, kind of pre-existing condition really, or a fair question you should consider be asked when you're going through this process of maybe starting peptides, do you or your immediate family have any history of cancer?

23:37 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, exactly, so when you're talking about going that approach where you're tinkering with components of the engine, it's hard to know, it's hard to say that chances are it's not going to do what it is, that you wanted it to do for a long time without maybe causing other problems you wanted it to do for a long time without maybe causing other problems, right, right, and so for C15,.

24:04 C15 is kind of like oh, we found a better gasoline or fuel for the car, and the fuel helps the car run longer and safer, and it's not tinkering with who we are as humans, it's actually enabling this wonderful body of ours to be able to last longer. So it's just, you know, we've known that C15 has played a key role in longevity. There's this cell membrane pacemaker theory of aging introduced by AJ Holbert. He showed that the more stable the fatty acids in a cell membrane, the longer mammalian species lives. So he's showed humans have much more stable cell membranes than mice. Okay, great, he just solved the problem of long gen how do we live 38 times longer than a mom?

24:47 like evolution's already figured it out, let's tap into that and then see if we can push that a little further okay, so you've been pulling a lot of information from, I know, these new clinical studies.

24:58 - Chase (Host) Can you kind of help the audience and me understand more of, really lay out, this study? What were the requirements? What happened? What were the key findings? Was there anything really? Is it just statistical significance, statistical insignificance, but still an interesting finding? You know, really, kind of walk us through this study.

25:14 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, absolutely so. What insignificance, but still an interesting finding. You know really kind of walk us through this study. Yeah, absolutely so. So what it did was it said okay, if we have a criteria of a nutritional deficiency, here are the things that boxes that would need to be checked off. So step one it would need to be an essential fatty acid, so it's something that our bodies must have. It can't make enough of. So we had already published that paper in 2020 and scientific reports of laying out the argument of it being an essential fatty acid. So the second is saying okay, if you take C15 away, so if it is missing from a system, will you actually develop a disease specific to not having C15? And can you define an amount?

25:50 Because there needs to be a threshold right, not just kind of like an association of lower C15 is a higher risk of type 2 diabetes required in the cell and that, whether it's epidemiological or experimental in the lab, that when C15 was lower than 0.2%, the cells became more fragile and we started seeing these downstream risk factors of higher risk of type 2 diabetes, heart disease, fatty liver disease.

26:29 - Chase (Host) Can I interrupt real quick? And that number seems pretty low. So I'm wondering are people going that's so low, like how could a number so small really matter that much?

26:40 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, well, I'm short.

26:43 - Chase (Host) Yes, okay.

26:47 - Stephanie (Guest) I'm trying not to be insulted, but sometimes little things can make a difference right, yeah. So in and that is your exact question is why C-15 had gone and basically stayed under the radar for so long. So C-15 has been known about since the 1950s. It's present at such low levels in our blood that the response of C-15 is well, it's there, but it can't have any real significance because, it's at such low levels.

27:19 What we have found is that it's at this threshold where it really is just needed in small amounts in the cell, just enough to be a stable fat in the cell membrane, to keep it stable. If we have there's, the great hope is so. The downside right is if we have less than 0.2%, the cell becomes fragile, succumbs to feroctosis and all of the things that we talked about. You know the downstream. If we have between 0.2 to 0.4%, then it's a stable and we can kind of go back to where we were before. There were increases and type 2 diabetes used to be called adult onset diabetes and how children are getting it.

28:01 So let's get back to that, where we don't have children getting adult diseases. Juvenile diabetes, exactly so. Then there's that, and then there's a study in Sardinia, which is a longevity blue zone, and Sardinians specifically, they live a long time. It's really interesting for a couple of reasons. The first is that this is the area where men are the most likely to live over 100 of anywhere else in the world.

28:25 - Chase (Host) Of any blue zone.

28:26 - Stephanie (Guest) Of any blue zone, really, and they are less likely to die because they're not dying from heart disease. So a couple of interesting hints. A paper came out two years ago I think 2023, and they looked at their fatty acid levels and they showed that Sardinians have C15 levels of 0.6. No, way.

28:46 Three times higher than the average person today has 0.2, because we've taken C15 out of our. So most of us are sitting right on that cliff of fragility and so we're okay. Like you're saying, well, should I care, does it really matter? But we're just sitting right on that cliff that if we ourselves get challenged, or we get challenged, we don't. You don't want to be one step from the edge of a cliff, let's be 10 feet back, and so if something happens, it's some kind of challenge happens to our life, we have room for ourselves to be able to handle it.

29:18 Sardinians have freaking 0.6% even older people.

29:22 - Chase (Host) They're way back at the beginning of the trail before you can even see the cliff. Yeah exactly, there's no cliff, there's no cliff.

29:36 - Stephanie (Guest) And so as we get older, our C15 levels naturally go down, and even looking at the people who are 80 to 100 years old in Sardinia still have a 0.4% C15. So really impressive. They get it. Not because of fatty 15, though I'd love to say that's where we make it Do you ship to Italy?

29:46 - Chase (Host) You should. If you don't, I know right.

29:50 - Stephanie (Guest) But it is proof that you can get healthy C15 levels absent of supplementation in Sardinia right. And so what they have is they've actually traded out meat for dairy products in their diet. They have meat once a week and on special occasions, but otherwise what they eat are cheeses, and specifically dairy. It's goat and sheep cheeses from their own herds that feed on grass and get this. It's high altitude grass. When you combine high altitude grass eating goats and sheep and hard cheeses like Pecorino, you get double the amount of C15 than you do in any other products we get here on land.

30:28 - Chase (Host) So I have to imagine the high altitude, locally sourced goat and sheep fed cheeses. That market's about to boom.

30:43 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, I think it should, but don't take it away from us, our Indians. So yeah, so there's as far as like it doesn't matter how the small amount. We now know that it means a lot and that 0.2, 0.4% is equal to this like 20 to 40 micromolars, which, interestingly, in all of our studies where we look at how well does C15 bind to core receptors like PPARs and AMPK and all of these activities at the cellular level, over and over again, it's between 20 and 50 micromolars. The best mitochondrial repair activities 20 to 50 micromolars. So it is really the sweet spot that our bodies are really intended to get and it's by getting between 100 to 300 milligrams of C15 per day.

31:23 - Chase (Host) So it sounds like there definitely is this sweet spot and coming under that causes cell death for apoptosis and with that all the negative things we just talked about. But at the higher levels, is there an oversaturation point? Is there a point to where you can have too much C15?

31:39 - Stephanie (Guest) It's a good question. We haven't seen it yet.

31:41 We don't know yet we don't know. Yet what we know is Sardinians have I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a 0.6% and they're doing well. They're less likely to die of heart disease. There was a separate study done by a group from Harvard and a bunch of other universities involved lots of people over a long period of time. It was a prospective cohort study and they separately not looking at Sardinians they separately showed that people who have higher levels of C15, 0.4 to 0.6, were the least likely to develop heart disease. So they're really is supportive that higher is better. I think that what's happened is in our natural world. There is no. It would be really hard to get levels that are really really high. We've done lots of safety studies at like 100x this dose. No safety issues, so it doesn't everything has some like water can be toxic. Right right safety issues. So it doesn't everything is. Everything has some talk like water can be toxic right.

32:39 And so but I think it's what it is is another reason why we developed, you know, fatty 15 in the supplement at 100 to 200 milligrams per day. We're not trying to hyper dose, we're saying let's just get us back to where we are and like for me, I just measured my C15 levels and I'm 0.42, which is awesome, all right, all right, very on brand, all right. So, and I do think it's a combination of getting the supplementation, but I also have cheese and whole grain crackers for snacks.

33:10 - Chase (Host) And I saw that as well. You can now test for this there is. Can we walk down to the street to our doctor or lab core or something like that, and request this? I saw that you all are now offering even an at-home test kit. Is this such a's? Just like you know, Venus, draw or prick a finger kind of thing? Yeah, exactly. And it's just a test for this biomarker?

33:40 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, and a lot of. There's fatty acid panels. So the way we discovered this way back when we were assessing you know which fatty acids, which small molecules present in dolphins and they're all fish diets predicted the healthiest aging dolphins. That fatty acid panel luckily happened to include c15, like if it hadn't had included c15 in it, we wouldn't meet. So there may be, if your doctor has access to a fatty acid panel, they should just check and see if it includes c15. And you can get that. Any doctor can get that. Any doctor can get that measurement. Okay, we developed, we worked in partnership with Genova, who they provide, offer this at-home test and so that's the one I did. So it gets shipped from house. You prick your finger.

34:23 - Chase (Host) You prick your finger. Yeah, I do that with Cyfox Health. I do kind of like diagnostic lab tests to that. Super easy yeah.

34:31 - Stephanie (Guest) So it's another option, but again, it's something that most doctors should have ready access. They just need to make sure that that fatty acid panel includes not only the omegas, but also C15.

34:42 - Chase (Host) You know, it kind of begs this question for me and I feel like I have to ask it, even though I feel like we've already kind of talked about it so much. Now, in the longevity world, the optimization world, is there too much information? Do we have too much access to these abilities to test all these blood markers? There's so many people, I think, just get caught up in the minutia of I need this lab, this biomarker, this thing. I need to look at every level, I need to be optimal in everything for this kind of gamification and you know I've definitely fallen victim to that over the years because it's new science. Well, what if this could be the thing? Or is it correlation causation?

35:16 You know I personally like to know all the data. I get quarterly labs. Now this year I have two different wearables, I got a smart bed, but you know I personally you know it's been about a 20 year wellness journey to kind of bring all these things to the table and I have my own assessment and prioritization and my own kind of genetic predispositions to certain things. So I say all that just to kind of share. I'm not pro or anti anything here, but there's a lot of power in information, but sometimes too much information can cause more stress. Or just because something is high or low does not necessarily mean it should be cause for concern. Maybe right now, or should really be throw you off your entire routine or change your life Is this the case for C15? Or hey, this is a biomarker everyone needs to know because it matters for everyone.

36:07 - Stephanie (Guest) So it's the latter, and in most, because it's something that's easily fixable and, importantly, as we're educating doctors. With regard to the paper of cellular fragility syndrome, it's not just a matter exactly to your point, chase it's not just a matter of I have low C15. Oh my gosh right, go fix it. It's more of if a person has low C15, you need to be looking, knowing that one in three people have low C15 and have the associated cellular fragility syndrome. So this includes measurements of like things like high ferritin and high levels of lipid peroxidation, things where your doctors start caring about, beyond your super fancy functional wellness world that and that's still kind of on the border where there'll be looking for things like that.

36:56 But then what comes after that are do you have anemia and do you have insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes and evidence of heart disease and high cholesterol? Those and fatty liver disease, right, all of those are components of downstream effects of C15 deficiencies. So what's important about it is test for C15 or not. It's more important saying could my patient have cellular fragility syndrome? And what makes it important is, yes, there are all these tests you can do. But a big thing that Nick will be talking about Dr Shork at this meeting in Copenhagen. The reason why he got on the C15 train is because it wasn't just about epigenetic clocks and telomere.

37:41 He's like you're actually affecting things that will make people be healthier longer. If they don't have anemia, if they don't have type 2 diabetes, if they don't have heart disease, liver disease, we're going to live healthier longer. And Nick is like there's nothing else that does this in the way that he's aware.

38:01 - Chase (Host) That's so incredible what a great path we're on. I think for sure it's been good.

38:08 - Stephanie (Guest) And you know nothing wrong with accidental discoveries from taking care of other animals.

38:13 - Chase (Host) I mean look at some of the other amazing accidental discoveries. What is it? Penicillin Right Was an accidental fungal discovery on a cantaloupe, I think, back in England actually, and I mean imagine where we would be or not be without penicillin.

38:28 - Stephanie (Guest) Right, it's just, we just need to have ourselves enable people from all disciplines, even dolphin veterinarians, to be able to explore the world and come forward with hypotheses and, you know, big messages the world is so far like. This is such a simple discovery, right, and this was not a fancy discovery, it's just a simple one that the dolphins allowed us to see and to bring, to bring the light. It just means there's just so much more for us to discover in nutrition if we can apply the advanced technologies that we're applying for drug development and all of these other things, apply it to nutrients, and I have a really good feeling that there's a whole lot more that we can find to better our health in clinically relevant ways.

39:10 - Chase (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. So now I would like to kind of get into some questions that we have from the first interview with your husband, some great questions around the origins of C-15, supplementation diet, kind of pulling from the audience here. First one is how did the Navy dolphins get more C-15?

39:29 - Stephanie (Guest) Right. So C-15 in dolphins were dependent upon the type of fish they ate, so some fish and not all have C-15. The dolphins had access to multiple about five different types of fish and some of them chose chips of the sea, which we're now calling them capelin because they were like they didn't have any.

39:51 C15 in it, they were fine but versus other dolphins loved the super fatty fish that had high C15 in them. So the way we were able to basically analyze the data and understand differences in C15 levels by dolphins was really based upon which fish types were dolphins eating and that was influencing their C15 levels and the downstream benefits. The first study we did that was funded by Office of Naval Research. After making that discovery was saying hey, let's move dolphins to basically hire fish to more fish that have high C15 in them and we saw the metabolic syndrome anemia, hyperferitinemia, iron overload, all of those things get better.

40:36 - Chase (Host) But dolphins can have those diseases. They have all of it, so they have. Those are the issues.

40:40 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, exactly so. Part of the paper shows in multiple species that the dolphin has this very clean model which really helped us understand what was happening, because people there's a lot of noise Not everybody who has heart disease has C15, has heart disease because of C15 deficiencies In the dolphins. The dolphins were getting fatty liver disease specifically because one phenotype and it was C15 deficiency. So we were able to have this really wonderful clean picture where getting C15 back into their diet allowed the population to get better and it helped be a much clearer picture from a deficiency standpoint.

41:18 - Chase (Host) That's super intriguing, right. Thank you, super intriguing. Yeah, yeah, flipper, killing it All right. This next person writes the serum content of C15 has long been utilized as an indication of dairy consumption and I haven't researched this. I don't know the actuality of this just their statement here, they say 30 grams of butter. One ounce gives. Gives what they.

41:42 Eric Fatty 15, gives what they claim is the optimal dose of C15. When the creator of a new synthetic supplement presents research, facts like these are easily forgotten. This is more of a statement than a question. But how does that land on you?

41:55 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, oh, it's really important. And the person who brought up this question it's a valid question. And the person who brought up this question, it's a valid question. So the amount of C15 that we are supposed to get as an essential fatty acid is something that we should be able to get from food, right, and so they're absolutely right that just a couple of tablespoons of butter.

42:13 One ounce yeah back in the day, at least back in the day, because the measurements of how much C15 is in butter are based upon measurements that were taken by USDA a long time ago. If a cow is fed corn, it has half as much C15 in its dairy fat than if it is fed grass. So we don't know exactly anymore, even though we can look at USDA lists of how much C15 is in it. We really there's less control of that.

42:40 - Chase (Host) Unless we're getting grass-fed butter grass-fed cows fed and grass finished. It's kind of like a golden standard.

42:46 - Stephanie (Guest) Exactly. More importantly, in most cases, when the best way to get our nutrients, like omega-3s, omega-6s are from eating the foods that have them like that is a mantra, right, and so this person has every right to say just get it from butter. There was a group that met in Copenhagen, which Copenhagen has now come up twice. That were experts in dairy fat science, and their big question was we know there are specific ingredients in dairy fat that are essential. Every mammal gets milk at birth. Therefore it is the perfect food, and so there are because of it. It has specific ingredients in it that when you take that individual ingredient out and do the studies on it, they have remarkable properties, things like vitamin D and vitamin A and C15. And so the big question this team had was hey, we know that these nutrients in isolation do remarkable things in their pure form. Why aren't we seeing that effect when you do large-scale studies on the benefits of dairy products in populations? Why isn't it consistent that if people drink whole fat milk, they should see they should have a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, fatty liver disease, and so it's a very simple question. They did a deep dive and what they concluded was that there are over 400 fatty acids in dairy fat. For us, only 1% of fatty acids in dairy fat is C15. Over 40% are pro-inflammatory saturated, even chain saturated fatty acids.

44:26 When people have a high fat diet, their C15 levels actually go down. The hypothesis is it's because our bodies it's like being in a subway station and you're running as fast as you can through. Who makes it onto the subway are the bully, the ones that are there in higher volume C-15,. There may be less absorption of C-15 in the face of a high-fat diet.

44:49 Another example is a study that was done in which they fed a mouse that had type 2 diabetes pure C-15, pure C-17, and whole dairy fat and what they showed was C-15 had the best benefits lower liver fat, lower insulin, lower glucose, lower inflammation. C-17, lower inflammation great, but not as good as C-15. Whole dairy fat group got worse. They had worse liver fat and worse inflammation and they attributed that to these much higher levels of these pro-inflammatory fats. So that was a really long way of going about the the. We have an ability you know again, this was funded through the office of naval research to optimize an individual ingredient that if we could take the bullies and the competitors away from it, these pro-inflammatory fats, it has the ability to do remarkable things.

45:38 - Chase (Host) That's fascinating. So just to make sure I kind of am getting this correctly C15 good C15 found in foods in nature that are typically collectively more just saturated fats altogether. But having a diet that is predominantly high in saturated fat, although you're getting C15, is not a good thing.

46:01 - Stephanie (Guest) It's good. Or it may just kind of be like okay, but not, you're just or.

46:06 - Chase (Host) Maybe more bad than with the goods. Yeah, exactly it's this battle. You're kind of reaching the point of diminishing returns. Maybe that's right. That's exactly it, Okay.

46:12 - Stephanie (Guest) That's exactly it and that's what's been shown over and over, and so it's. How can we create a product that we could make money on? This was truly how can we solve for the problem of that? We have a uh, an ingredient that can have these remarkable properties and can we make it absent and, on top of it, make it, you know, vegan friendly and pure, so that people know exactly what they're getting? And the point that this person brought up was good, which is the studies that are done are on this exact ingredient. It's on pure c15. It is not done on dairy fat and butter, because if you do that, you you lose all the benefits.

46:49 So I saw we're like don't and and I I mix, like I said, I eat cheese and I take the supplement. So I think it's really probably getting to a world where we have a balance of, just like we have omega-6 to omega-3 ratios, of finding out foods where we can get uh, you know, even chained odd, like c16 to c15 ratios, or have butter report, have dairy products report how much c15 versus c16 is in their product and maybe right we could find a balance, yeah, where it's good, but for right now.

47:17 This is where it's good, but for right now this is just. It's another option for people that has very real reasons behind it.

47:26 - Chase (Host) Super interesting, super interesting. There's a huge difference this is another question here from the last YouTube video. There's a huge difference with natural C-15 and C-15 made in a lab which contains alcohol like PEGs, which can cross a blood brain barrier. Alcohols and sugars in a liposome can cause aggressive cancers and brain tumors a few years later. Dolphins also don't eat sugar. People do. I'll be happy to look at this product at a nano level.

47:52 - Stephanie (Guest) Okay, yeah.

47:53 - Chase (Host) So Kind of a lot going on there. There was a lot going on there, anything you can help us with.

47:56 - Stephanie (Guest) I can help you that the molecule is exactly identical to that in nature, so it's bioidentical.

48:02 - Chase (Host) Okay.

48:03 - Stephanie (Guest) The nice thing about C15 is it's 15 carbons. Sometimes molecules will have different it's called like isoforms, where it could be like a left version or a right version and, depending upon that structure configuration could make a big difference on what it does. And so when something is made synthetically that if you don't get that formation right or they're complicated, one little mistake it can make a really big difference. We're gifted with the fact that it's literally 15 carbons that are put together with no double bonds, and it is. It's bio-identical to what to that which is in nature.

48:39 - Chase (Host) So it's more air quote here, cut and dry.

48:41 - Stephanie (Guest) It's pretty cut and dry. Yeah, in foods, c15 can come attached to a complex lipid called triacylglycerides, but what happens is when we eat it, because we can't absorb these triacylglycerides, our digestive enzymes pull C15 off of it in its free fatty acid form, which is basically the same thing, so that it can be absorbed, which is the same that we have here.

49:03 - Chase (Host) So hopefully that helps answer their question. Yeah, so another one here, but I feel like we kind of already touched on it. Look up foods high in C15. This person found cheddar cheese is high in that, so I will have that Great Love cheddar cheese.

49:16 - Stephanie (Guest) We kind of touched on, you know, the source really being cheese being a great option here I'm biased because I love cheese, but again I think to get to those Sardinian zone levels. I think it may be, it could be, and again, everybody's journey is their own and nobody's forced to go take a supplement. But we are trying to find ways, gather ways that we can fortify foods with C15. The goal really here is a movement to help understand the importance of C15, get it back into our lives in many different ways, including infant formulas which have no C15, and be able to, you know, get our global health back on track. This supplements one part of it, but, oh my goodness, we have so many different ways that we can help.

49:58 - Chase (Host) You kind of really just blew my mind. I just began to think about fortification. You know like we see a lot of cereals and other products you know, fortified, enriched in a way. It's kind of well, it was stripped down and now you have to put it back in. So why is that happening?

50:12 But, that's a whole nother conversation with you know the food industry and lobbying and all this stuff, but you know, could we? Are we moving towards a future in the world, in the whole food, grocery shopping, buying, food world, where we can look for and see this product, this food enriched with C15? Is that even possible in like a biochemical level?

50:33 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, I mean it's a great ingredient from that standpoint because it has no double bonds, it's not susceptible to oxidation, just means it's really stable, so it could sit around at room temperature for five years and still be the same molecule, so it means that it can be mixed in really well to help fortify foods and so, yeah, so it's prime to be able to help fortify foods throughout the world for infants through all stages of our life. And you know where all the science is heading is that there will be stages of our life, and you know where all the science is heading is that there will be, just like you see, uh, you know, daily requirements of vitamin a how much does this have zero to, and sometimes it's zero percent, but you know c15 is heading in that direction wow

51:16 - Chase (Host) yeah, which is pretty exciting it's got a lot of momentum this is everything you say. Just keeps, you know, blowing more.

51:22 - Stephanie (Guest) The movement is on and what's nice, Chase, it's no longer us, it's people. Throughout. We have a whole group. That's two different teams that we have completely independent of us, that are looking at C15's anti-cancer properties and its ability to help reverse tamoxifen resistance in breast cancer cells and increase the efficacy of gemcitabine against breast cancer cells. You know, it's just. There's the understanding of importance to childhood developments and health. So there's all of these things happening and really what you know Nick would come back and say is it's the consistency of the data and this 50-year experiment that we've undergone of taking it out of our diet. Our lifespans are shortening, Kids are aging faster. It's a safe ingredient. Let's find a way to bring it back into our lives, both by revisiting dietary guidelines, especially around kids, Like when your little one turns two years old and they'll be told to come off of whole fat milk and go to low fat milk. Let's revisit those guidelines and make sure that you know people have those C15 levels that they need.

52:28 - Chase (Host) Wow yeah, the new dad brain in me is already beginning to think a lot about this stuff in a different way. Another question I thought was really interesting is I think it's because when the cell is fragile, the ATP leaks out. Is I think it's because when the cell is fragile, the ATP leaks out Also I didn't spell check this one, their grammar is a little off here Also a bet that the anemia is often anemia of chronic disease. So let's maybe go with the first part first.

52:53 Yeah, the first part first. So kind of we're looking at cellular fragility syndrome. Is this more because of the lack of C15 that it's causing ATP to leak out? I'm assuming what they're asking here.

53:05 - Stephanie (Guest) It's a little more refined. So cellular fragility syndrome our cells become more fragile. Ferrooptosis then evolves into this whole cascade of events that then end up attacking the mitochondria. The mitochondria make our ATP, our energy production. So what we've been able to show is not only does C15 help stabilize the cell membrane, but it also helps to directly repair mitochondrial function, and that then, because of repairing mitochondrial function, is more of that direct ability to increase ATP production. When our mitochondria break down, especially as we get older, there's this like chain of events that happens, and it's there's four complexes, and often that first complex goes down, can't make ATP anymore, because everyone's dependent on the other. C15 has the ability to actually help our bodies make succinate, which then feeds right into complex two. We can skip complex one that's broken and mitochondria is up and working again.

54:02 - Chase (Host) So, with all this information about C15, you have a book coming out the Longevity Nutrient. Why this book? Why now?

54:09 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, well, to be honest, Simon and Schuster reached out. So, as we talked about daily I have a daily or a weekly blog. Science Says all the science is coming out on C15, around the world, so it's not just us. I'd have to fill a book. And so Simon and Chusa reached out. They've been reading the Sciences for over a year and they said Steph, this is an amazing story, this is a book. Are you game? So I wrote the book. It's on sale wherever books are sold and excited to be able to celebrate it, especially around National Ballton Day in 2025. So all the science is there and hopefully it doesn't just put you to sleep and it's a fun adventure with regard to all the surprises that we had along the way.

55:01 - Chase (Host) Going into a book like this because there's so much new evidence. I'm sure there's still a lot of evidence yet to come more clinical trials, more science, more application. How are you kind of writing a book and delivering a book that is based on a scientific discovery of decades, which? So you got a lot of history there you can write on and a lot of things we can apply now. But what are you most curious about? What was maybe left open, ended, if, if you can talk about it in the book for the future applications?

55:21 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, it's a great question. Even while we were writing it, chase, we went from C-15 addresses four hallmarks of aging to, I mean, six hallmarks of aging. So literally papers were coming out saying, oh, it actually helps with epigenetic alterations and it helps with dysbiosis.

55:39 - Chase (Host) Probably the most live edit book ever.

55:42 - Stephanie (Guest) It was literally like adding these in. So absolutely to your point. There's a lot coming. One that I'm really excited about is we're starting to look and better understand the role of C15 and brain and cognitive development. There are early studies, epidemiological studies, showing people with higher C15 have better brain cognitive health, including development in children. We do have some science coming down the pipeline with regard to specific targets for treating Are we talking like Alzheimer's dementia, things like that cognitive decline?

56:16 Yeah, so coming at early stages, better understanding mechanisms of action of C15 that are relevant to being able to potentially treat Alzheimer's someday. So that one was. It's happening now.

56:31 - Chase (Host) That's incredible yeah.

56:32 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, stay tuned. We'll be able to chat about it more as those papers come out.

56:36 - Chase (Host) Because I've been diving personally into a lot of advanced longevity studies the last couple of years, through ever since really kind of partnering and learning more about what Timeline Nutrition has been up to and their product.

56:49 - Stephanie (Guest) Urolithin A. It's a great group.

56:51 - Chase (Host) It's a great group and a great product and you know, again, kind of like with you. I love how they waited to come to market about 10 years of these human clinical trials, these human clinical trials. And urolithin a is this incredible postbiotic that we naturally create, but only in the right circumstances, with quality, good foods, good gut health, no leaky gut, blah, blah, blah, particularly from pomegranates and walnut oil. And so I recently was even diving deeper into this because my in-laws are all persian and what is the number one ingredient in most persian food?

57:19 they love pomegranate as well as walnut oil.

57:22 - Stephanie (Guest) I did not know that.

57:23 - Chase (Host) Particularly this one dish I recently just had at our gender reveal called fesenjoon and it's all pomegranate paste and walnut oil and it got me thinking. I was looking around like my wife's grandmother. She's like pushing 90. She looks 15 years younger. Most Middle Eastern people, especially in the Persian community, barring any other chronic illness or disease or kind of lifestyle choice, it's really they're very healthy, they live long, they look great, they're mobile and I was like bam, okay, there's something to this longevity stuff and it just kind of re-solidified how important the science is when we're looking at mitochondrial health and again, if we're not getting it in our diet.

58:07 - Stephanie (Guest) There are key things we should be looking for and looking at to support these unique mechanisms of action. That's right. That's right. So, multiple shots on goal. With regard to getting to the mitochondria from C15, it's this rescuing method of getting mitochondria back up and running. Probably most importantly is what you first brought up with is let's stop for optosis from happening, which is the ultimate.

58:25 We're going to take out all your mitochondria and take out the cell so the fact that it helps with stabilizing the cell membrane, decreasing the um, this excess iron deposition, reducing reactive oxygen species and lipid, like every single step we've been able to show at these relevant levels, fixes. So yeah, it's crazy, yeah.

58:46 - Chase (Host) Well, this has been incredible. I I'm so excited to dive even deeper into it. I I love being on the email list for fatty 15. I get all the new studies, all the new, everything coming out and it's just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I also love and appreciate how you all are referencing all these other third parties. So it's not just here's what we're doing, here's what we're saying, but here are peer reviewed articles, here are other clinical studies, here are third parties coming in and supporting this. You know C-15 in general, so I love kind of seeing that approach and I appreciate that more. So anybody interested in more of the science definitely check out fatty 15. I'm gonna check out everything I link in the show notes because it's their information as well as everybody else's, and I'm really curious and excited to follow this journey of c15 because it's made such an incredible. I've been using fatty 15, I think almost a year now oh, that's, good, almost a year yeah, and it's also.

59:37 I think it's so great because a lot of people if if we choose to supplement, especially when we're looking at healthy fats, most people go krill oil, fish oil, omega-3, which are great, but typically for a quality one, you got to get a lot, you got to get a lot. Not all of them are made in the right purity, potency, quality, not are all very shelf stable, so they oxidize, they get that nasty fish smell, fish burps. What you can really do here is just one capsule. It's vegan friendly and so I actually. This is how great it is. I got my wife on board because she is so anti-capsule, anti-supplement, just because she doesn't like kind of that supplementation form, but she's like oh, it's tiny, it's like one teeny, tiny little thing. Easy, I can do this, it's easy and you're it, and it's like what? Three to six times am I making this number up like in terms of the efficacy of omega-3?

01:00:30 - Stephanie (Guest) yeah, so we were able to show that it had three times more cellular benefits um clinically relevant cellular benefits, than pure epa. Okay, okay, okay yeah.

01:00:38 - Chase (Host) So I mean we've covered how this is a deficiency. It's been clinically proven. But we can also remedy this by things in our diet. But, like we've talked about a lot on the show, the nutrition quality and access to whole foods has just gone down the tube over the last several years, unless you're really growing it yourself, or maybe you're up in Sardinia up in the high altitude, you know, which is great. But you know again, I love this product, love what you guys are up to. I'm so excited to see it grow.

01:01:07 - Stephanie (Guest) Oh, Chase, it's great being here with you and thanks for sharing your love with both of the Watsons, my pleasure.

01:01:12 - Chase (Host) My pleasure. Yeah, it's been great, eric, good to have you in the studio. Man, my last question for you, that I ask everybody is ever forward. This content, this message of the show is all meant to bring leaders, thought leaders, entrepreneurs, experts, scientists, doctors, to kind of help us understand a unique area of our life, to help us move forward. So ever forward. What does that mean to you?

01:01:35 - Stephanie (Guest) Yeah, I do think. I think it's for for me and for the ability to do what it is that we've done is. It's finding what it is that you're passionate about, diving in. This is the part that people don't like to hear, but you spend 10 years really getting to understand and know it because you're truly passionate about it and you invest a lot of time into it and by doing so, that allows you then to understand it enough to push the envelope and advance right that area that you're working in that much further. That then sets that potential up for the next generation and the next, and so I see that as that's how we move ever forward is being able to learn everything we can, be able to find new ways to advance ourselves and then always say we're not done.

01:02:26 - Chase (Host) And kids. You got some work to do Ever forward. That's amazing. There's never a right or wrong answer. I appreciate everyone's interpretation. So thank you All right guys. That's a wrap for today's video. If you're watching on YouTube, if you're watching Means the World, if you smash that thumbs up button, subscribe to the channel. Go back and check my last episode with her husband, dr Eric Van Watson, if you want to learn more about kind of the backstory and the scientific discovery of C15. And if you're listening, subscribe to the show. Follow really does support the show in a big, big way. So thank you for more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com