EFR 827: Music Medicine - How Sound Can Reduce Chronic Pain and Inflammation, Lymphatic Drainage, Boost Mental Health and Treat PTSD, Enhance Meditation and More with Ray Kelly

00:02 - Chase (Host) Take a second and think about the most relaxed time of your life.

00:45 - Ray (Guest) Your body is being kind of hypnotized rhythmically with this kind of womb-like heartbeat kind of rhythm Not always about just, you know, emptiness and relaxation. Through silence we can also stimulate the brain to think. My name is Ray Kelly and I'm the founder and inventor of Tursa. Welcome to Ever Forward Radio.

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04:03 Friends, welcome back to Ever Forward Radio. I am your host, chase chewning. If you're tuning in for the first time today, welcome. Thank you so so much for tuning in. You literally have millions of choices when it comes to podcasts to learn about health, fitness, wellness, nutrition, mindset, personal development all the ways in which, I say, can help us move forward in life, and to keep moving ever forward. I'm so, so grateful and honored that you're here with me today. Make sure you tap that follow button on your podcast platform of choice, whether that's Apple Podcasts, spotify it really does support the show in a big, big, big way. And to make sure you're never going to miss another amazing episode like my one today with Ray Kelly, founder and CEO of Tursa.

04:45 Now I talk about the video a lot in the podcast, but if you're listening right now, odds are you're an auditory listener. You prefer listening to podcasts. But when I say there is probably no other video podcast I have done, that hits as hard as this one. It's the one with Ray. I'm going to link it for you in the show notes. You can always follow us and subscribe and check it out over on YouTube Just search Everford Radio. It's also posted up at everfordradiocom. But Ray and Tersa did this incredible pop-up exhibit experience here in LA recently, and when I tell you this was one of the most artistic, creative, mind-bending, immersive experiences I have ever gone through, I'm not lying, so check it out. It is a visual treat With that.

05:35 Who is Ray Kelly? Well, ray is a world-renowned celebrity injury rehab and human performance expert that has managed the bodies of so many high-profile clientele, ranging from professional athletes, musicians, supermodels, fashionistas, adventurers, directors, writers, executives and even royalty. Ray's career kicked off at an incredibly early age as a junior Australian athlete, but his footballing dreams ended pretty abruptly with a really gnarly injury. In fact, he had to have his first knee reconstruction only at age 14, followed by three more surgeries by the age of 18, in the midst of a lot of other injuries, including spine reconstructive surgery and autoimmune disorders. So this guy knows what it means to be in pursuit of his own greatness, but also to be down but not out. But since all those injuries, ray has spent the last 20 years as a leading expert with a focus on the music industry, managing the health and well-being for some of the world's leading music icons. During this time, ray actually developed his proprietary methodology for a more holistic view on healing and performance as this in-demand global practitioner across the US, europe, uk, really globally. So with that he is so excited.

06:50 I am so excited to introduce to you Tursa this is a lifelong passion of his with the ultimate goal to disrupt the health, wellness and medical industry with a more holistic and multidimensional view on how to fully integrate the mind and body to heal, recover and expand awareness of oneself. Before we get into the interview portion, I want the viewer, the listener, I want you to just take a second and think about the most relaxed time of your life, or think about if you don't have that experience, think about what you might imagine that to be and keep that. Keep that at the front of your mind, keep that feeling and with that I want to welcome Ray Kelly to the show we're going to get into. Like the design and the technology of this thing, people see behind us here. I'm curious what is your take on our current ability, the current American ability to even think that's possible, you know, to meditate, to relax, to de-stress on a regular basis.

08:00 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, it's, it's tough, you know.

08:02 I think right now we're seeing an epidemic of anxiety and stress and overthinking, and I think also this old idea unachievable goal for many, because this idea of sitting there in infinite silence and the mind is this completely quiet, void, um, it makes people feel like there's a sense of failure in the experience and it's setting people up um to fail, you know, psychologically, and you end up going through this cyclical pattern of um, you know, I'm I don't know how to meditate, I'm not good enough, and then you beat yourself up for your mind being so active.

08:50 And the truth is your mind is always, always active. So there's just different ways that we can, that we can kind of make that happen. But I think, broadly speaking, in America in general, where you know it's a country living on subscription pills, synthetics, sleeping pills I mean, half the population is living on sleeping prescription pills just to get to sleep, you know, and it's that's crazy right to think that we can't get to sleep or people can't stay asleep because of stress. So yeah, I think, in terms of what we're seeing right now in this country in particular, is a peak concerning moment of stress disorders that are rife through the country.

09:32 - Chase (Host) How would you even begin a conversation to not even convince somebody, but to open channels of communication to hear why down-regulating is important, why turning off regularly is important, why, separating from all of the inputs in social media and technology and even just our loved ones, you know, and really kind of getting to the us time, the quiet time, on a regular basis, how can we even begin to have that conversation with somebody that regular basis? How can we even begin to have that conversation with somebody that doesn't think it's possible? But also, I think the most common excuse is I don't have time for that. There's no way I could regularly introduce that to my life.

10:15 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I think in in general, I think to your point. You just nailed it with the family piece, I think, when you look at the impact that has in your relationships, right, so, when you're in these kind of high stress states and you're not grounded and you're extroverting all your energy, like everything's going out, and that type of energy and frequency you're putting out is infecting your whole family, it's infecting your relationships and your friends. So, a lot of the times, people are completely unconscious of these behaviors and that's where it becomes this very um, collective experience where your inability to heal yourself or an inability to have awareness of how you're projecting yourself to others can, can be hugely damaging just your relationships and your family as well. So, um, that's a big part of the question is actually, how can we get people to actually one have awareness of their actions? Um, and how can we get people to start traveling inwards rather than projecting outwards?

11:25 Because every, you know every, from the second we wake up, we're on our phone before we've even opened our eyes. We're immediately hitting the phone, we're immediately, you know, even with the whole optimization programs that are that we're all following. If we look at everything on social media right now. Um, if you don't wake up in the morning and get sunlight on your body within the first 10 minutes, your eyeballs are going to explode and if you don't get lemon water on your gut before you eat in the morning by 705, then you're you know, it's just a the, the wellness protocol in general is is quite intense as well.

12:00 So I think, um, you know, a big part of this is just simplifying people, to slow down and have deeper conversations with yourself, and I think that the fastest path to that is, um is that inward conversation and, and for me, moving people off this idea of having to repeat mantras or follow a specific meditation program, um, ironically becomes stressful right.

12:28 - Chase (Host) The irony of it is it becomes a stressful process, even more stress inducing.

12:32 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, and, and I know we'll get to it a little bit more in a minute, but for me the ultimate goal was music on its own. Is is the most universal human expression that we, we all, love and connect with right. And and I mean, if anyone, any human, doesn't like music, I'm kind of there's something very wrong.

12:52 I don't think I've ever met anyone on this planet that doesn't enjoy music? Um, so for me, in terms of getting back to that question, we're we're really kind of trying to bring people's awareness to using sound and music and vibration and frequency as a way to self-connect. Um, and if you think about um, you know, if you think about energy, like, the language we're speaking right now is something that was, was created. We as humans made that up. It doesn't. It's not real. And so what I'm what we're really focusing on is getting back to things that are real, and what is real in this universe is energy, frequency, vibration. That is the universal language of connectivity. That's how this universe works, it's how we as humans work, it's how our mind works, it's how our cells work. You're always in a state of motion. So really using these organic materials to ground the body is where I believe is like the beginning of helping those break those cycles, break those patterns and actually reconnect with the body let's, let's go there.

14:00 - Chase (Host) um, you know, a lot of what we're going to talk about includes music, um, but if you even really break that down, music is nothing other than a sequence of sound, and what is sound? Just wavelengths of energy Again, the person listening to kind of just go. When's the last time you were in a crap mood and you heard your jam come on the radio? Or you intentionally you know Heylexa play whatever your song is to introduce that change state?

14:29 yeah could be a great memory of that concert. It could be maybe a connection. Maybe that's your, you and your dad's song, or you and your daughter's song, yeah, um, but it introduces something that is undeniably causing a change state, you know energy.

14:46 - Ray (Guest) The energy you give off is infectious as well. Right, so you know, I think for us we're using music to connect, basically using music to play frequencies into your body that can help recalibrate that nervous system. And that's one of the things we found through science and research is that music has a profound ability to calm your nervous system and has the ability to your point. You can. You can hear an album and it can immediately take you back 10, 15, 20 years to that moment you heard it for the first time. But not only that you smell. You can smell the cologne that someone was wearing at that time, or if you were making out with someone for your first kiss in the back of a car.

15:31 - Chase (Host) Like you hear that song, the beer that spilled on you by the person next to you at the concert.

15:35 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, and that is the wildest thing about what music can do, it's timestamping. Right, it can timestamp you immediately, even take you back in time. So I love this idea of knowing that music can take us back to a moment in time so clearly and I can smell it, I can feel it, I can taste it, and then also then flipping that and saying, well, can we use music to project us in time?

15:59 can we use music to propel us forward and continue this um you know, continue to unlock dream states and unlock higher states of consciousness and download more information. Can it connect us to source?

16:13 - Chase (Host) can we?

16:14 - Ray (Guest) connect to a higher version of ourselves through music. So if it can take us backwards, it can also take us forwards, and that's something, um, you know where I'm excited to just keep pushing those boundaries and keep pushing people moving forward.

16:28 - Chase (Host) It's such a unique experience, so I'd love to kind of get into this beautiful device we're talking about here. Tursa, you shared with me earlier, after running through this group experience, some other responses people were having from other experiences and there was so much variety, so much variety and wow, I felt like I was on a journey. Wow, I only felt sensation on one side of my body. Some people were getting emotional, others, you know, having some kind of peripheral neuropathy stopping. You know diabetics. So there's just a range of physiological and emotional things happening from this immersive sound experience. Why do you think humans going through the same experience are having such drastically different responses?

17:21 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, it's a beautiful mystery. We're obviously still, you know, found everything we do is based on science and research of what we have now, but there's just still so much we haven't even unlocked yet as well, and it kind of as much as this feels like a very futuristic, progressive product. It's kind of wild to think that we're just, you know, in these last few years really having these serious conversations around sound and the impact it can have. And, yeah, I think in terms of I think in terms of what it can do is it's I'm just trying to think how to best articulate the-.

18:01 - Chase (Host) It's hard because there's so much variety. How do you kind of answer yes, all those different responses?

18:06 - Ray (Guest) yeah. So I think what we've seen already in such a short amount of time is this insanely wide spectrum of emotions, reactions, feelings. So we've we've encountered in one whole experience from multiple groups over and over again, a connection between both physical and biological reactions, but also spiritual and out of body reactions as well. So there's this really incredible paradigm that we're seeing, where we're seeing this cross section of both the physical and the spiritual components of conversation coming together and we've seen people have physiological responses, like um improved sensation in in dealing with neuropathy in certain areas. We've had uh, someone recently um had was deaf in one ear and yeah, it was insane like we had.

18:56 - Chase (Host) He said he was getting kind of not his hearing back but sensation of yeah, we didn't we didn't even know at the time.

19:02 - Ray (Guest) We had a.

19:03 We had a guest come in one day and got into the pod and a lot of people come in and they have no context around what their experience is.

19:09 There's no setup, they're just coming in blind, having this experience, um, and we're seeing everyone from all spectrums, from alpha type a's to, you know, the holistic gurus, to, you know, the, the unconscious to the highly conscious, and and this particular person came in just this week and we didn't know at the time but he was deaf in one ear and after the experience he was visibly quite moved and we could, we could see that there was, um, some emotion really kind of coming through.

19:37 And and when we asked him afterwards how he's feeling, we we learned that for the first time in years, since he went deaf in that ear, he felt balanced hearing through the experience, through this combination of the vibroacoustics physically stimulating the body, but also the way we've created audio to trick the brain and the hemispheres in that, and it's still a fascinating modality that we're able to in a short period of time, we're able to reprogram and calibrate brain hemispheres and and and hearing, um, and that's just the beginning of kind of scratching the surface of a lot of um, incredible, um, I wouldn't say miracles because it sounds.

20:20 You know it's, it's, it's out there, but it's definitely scratching the surface between medical information and also crossing these, these really delicate boundaries of some of the unknowns.

20:30 - Chase (Host) You know it's really powerful I'm curious on the front end, how do you go about crafting and curating an experience that you hope is universal for everybody? You know, you, you want some kind of baseline I'm assuming response, but then that response, that baseline response, becomes a springboard to to who knows what. So how do you? Is there a, a, an avatar in mind, a person in mind, like who is the person you're thinking of when you want them laying down in this bed and having this experience? How do you even craft something like that?

21:02 - Ray (Guest) Our goal was to not only reinvent the idea of what meditation is, but reinvent the idea of what meditation music can be. And if we look at meditation music in general, if we all pulled out our phones right now and went to meditation music, I guarantee you we're all going to find the same chimes the same tracks and there's, there's, you know it's without it sounding kind of cliche, it's a little predictable and it's not that inspiring right.

21:29 So if we want to use music to inspire the body and help you travel inwards, one of the goals that we had really identified through the years and years of research was in order for us to help you travel inwards and work through the layers, the layers of emotions and the layers of baggage and the years of trauma that we all hold and pain. We needed to use music to drive emotion right. And if you think about any I was saying earlier, like if you think about any cinematic moment that has brought you to tears or you've laughed like uncontrollably, just moved you in any kind of way, just moved you. But to bring the tears and make you cry in a movie cinematic moment that has brought you to tears or you've laughed like uncontrollably, just moved you in any kind of way.

22:06 But to bring the tears and make you cry. In a movie, that moment is driven by a musical apex that gets you to that moment where you release that energy. Now, if you watch that same movie Without the music, you're not going to get to that level of deep emotion.

22:23 - Chase (Host) So you probably feel pretty empty.

22:25 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, it's flat. And it's because music and resonance and vibration is the language of how we drive emotion. So we took, in terms of the creation of music, we kind of built it like a layer cake right? So the first layer, the foundation layer of everything that we've created, is always driven by science and research and fundamental vibrations and frequencies and scales that are designed to directly talk to your nervous system, to help take you out of these sympathetic states and driving these karma.

22:54 You know, taking you out of that fight or flight state and helping your nervous system relax so there are known wavelengths, known sounds that irrefutably do this to most people yeah in terms of like seeking that kind of like calming, parasympathetic response, exactly so there's there's, there's science-based, you know, researched frequencies and scales that are designed to help with anxiety, to help with stress, to help with sleep and as well as help with creativity, so depending on where you are on the scale.

23:25 So we've kind of built all the the base layers of everything we do in these foundations of science and research. Um, but then what we're doing is really kind of bringing in these really human and emotional kind of layers to it, and and what we decided to do was really kind of move away from this old idea of what meditation music is and and really took inspiration from a cinematic score. Right. So to my point, when you're driven to that moment, that high emotional moment, if we can get you in a state where we can drive emotion, that's the most human experience you can ever possibly feel is feeling, it's emotion, right, it's the most human thing we can do.

24:05 So the goal was okay, if we're going to help help you meditate in a totally different way, we needed to help you open up, open up motions and work through those layers. So the music we created was really driven by these cinematic scores. So the music kind of feels more like a soundtrack from like dune or interstellar than it does you know some?

24:27 some chachki bowls and chimes, um, and we found that that sense of journey and the the high level of production that that brings um was just so powerful and that's kind of why we brought just so many layers in and obviously nick littlemore is our musical director, who is just a phenomenal creative innovator um so, yeah, we're obviously very lucky to have someone like him behind the helm just really driving these musical kind of journeys which are so insane you know, I kind of heard you say earlier, it's really kind of getting people uh even yourself at first, to really rethink what this has to look like.

25:05 - Chase (Host) When we think calm, when we think quiet, stillness, meditation, we all tend to kind of go to a particular look, a feel, a sound. And I think that's probably one of the hardest things you probably had to overcome is to not only create something new, but to break the mold entirely of a concept that you want people to grasp for. The thing, the actual tangible thing, and the experience that you're going to offer them. How is that being received? I mean, because you're really kind of it's like a paradigm shift.

25:37 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, yeah and um. It's taken us years to develop as well like it's, because what's really fascinating is about the recording process, and being in this in the studio last few years with Nick is typically when most artists record music, you're getting instant gratification and feedback. So when they're when they're when you if you've ever been in a recording studio with a band or anyone watching and you know my background coming from, you know working in pain management within the music industry I've had years and years of exposure just watching these incredible artists just create and download from source and immediately interpret.

26:14 And it's the most beautiful thing is watching an artist in real time just in their zone, in their zone and downloading this information and immediately just watching them hit the piano and just watching magic come out and it's stream of thought, it's stream of consciousness and it's it's such a beautiful flow state to witness, um so kind of being in the studio. We're able to really see that and learn a lot. But we but that format, that that format was basically based on immediate feedback. You hear, you hear a hook and you hear a riff and you're like, oh, that's incredible, let's repeat that, let's loop that, let's stretch that.

26:47 And then, with this though, we spent months in the studio recording music with Nick and we basically plugged it in, we pressed play and in 30 seconds we were like it's a bust, it doesn't work right. And because it's not about this, it's a bust, it doesn't work right. And because it's not about. It's not about this, it's about feeling. So the entire experience is a sensory based experience. Um so any kind of like bump in the road, like if you're driving in a car and you hit a speed bump, it's, it's kind of like that. So every little finesse, moment of finesse, um had to seamlessly kind of take you there and actually the goal when we were creating it, and I'll I can certainly share more on that moment when we came up with this idea. But it was really about can we symbiotically connect you? I've, so. I've always been fascinated.

27:36 I'm such a lover of sci-fi and fantasy, and I've, I just for, since I was a little kid, I've always loved the conversation of the, the conversation of the, the conversation of man and machine or man and the maker right, always the. In every sci-fi, it's always about understanding who our creator is, and it's the one thing that we, we will never, never know the ultimate question, the timeless question, yeah and this, and then the irony of the man wanting to own machine.

27:58 Right, it's like we can't understand who our creator is, but yeah, so we have to create the god complex in us we want to then own machines, right, we want to have that connection.

28:07 So I've just always loved that paradigm, that kind of dissection, um, and with this it was really about can we symbiotically connect you to the machine, so to the pod, and can we help you become one with the song and can that song then seamlessly take you somewhere? And that was the biggest kind of goal was you know, in how we kind of created that experience. Can we connect you to a song and and literally take you somewhere?

28:35 - Chase (Host) was. Was there a defining moment?

28:36 - Ray (Guest) it sounds like there kind of was a yeah, we got a moment yeah, there was definitely a couple of a couple of moments, but, um, the big aha, it was something I've been developing this whole vision of an ecosystem of technology products for a long time and we had the whole blueprint. But it was really, to be honest with you, it was really our. You know, it was about 10 years ago. We had a life-changing moment with the introduction of plant medicine into my life and that, seemingly, was the gateway to opening up my creative pathways and my ability to have confidence in myself to take those, to take these ideas and implement it into a real thing.

29:15 Um, so I was definitely inspired by um you know, years and years of personal work and know years and years of personal work and breaking down these old archetypes that I had been holding on to and releasing that and using the plant medicine journeys and ceremonies to, um, you know, break these old patterns and and build these new archetypes and and become you know, someone that you know and actually listen to the information you're getting. And that was what I've, yeah, I'm most inspired about. What with this does is if we can get people to reduce their states of stress, these deep states of unconscious behaviors that they're in the ability for us when we're tapped into source and we're tapped into that higher state of consciousness it is, it is the most powerful experience a human can can can feel and have, and and that was always the goal of can we help people achieve a higher state of consciousness? Can we help people connect to the highest version of themselves? And the way to do that is by essentially creating a stress fee, a stress-free state for the body, and in order, in order to create a stress-free state, we needed to basically talk to the body in the language of the universe and the language of the universe is sound energy and

30:29 frequency and vibration. So it was really about okay, how do we start talking to the body in a language that it operates on, not a language of synthetic medicine and protocols and physical touch? We needed to treat the stress state before you can treat the body. And that was kind of where my background in sports science and injury prevention came from, where I, you know, I, was in this industry for 20 years treating the physical body and I went down every science, biomechanical rabbit hole I could go and I got to a point after 20 years and I was just treating body after body and just not making the impact that I knew I could do. And it was in that time I realized that we needed to really address the environment that your body's in. And if you treat the environment then you can get your treatments, then your body can respond to physical touch.

31:23 - Chase (Host) So it was really this kind of evolution of um, yeah, it's kind of like layers giving your car an alignment, you know, but then constantly driving down the same crappy road full of potholes and bumps and stuff and wondering why, you know, why isn't this working? Why isn't this sticking? Yeah, there's a lot of great things that you know in pain management, rehabilitation, physical therapy. You know a lot of stuff. I know that your background is in. That does the job and that's where a lot of great things that you know in pain management, rehabilitation, physical therapy you know a lot of stuff. I know that your background is in. That does the job and that's where a lot of us go, myself included. We go. I have a pain, I have an issue, I don't feel my best. Let me go adjust the body. Let me run, jog, yoga workout, get manual therapy, yoga workout, get manual therapy. But you're to your point. If we're coming back to the same environment internally and or externally. Yeah, we're just throwing ourselves back down that same crappy road again, exactly. Hey, guys, quick break from my conversation with ray to bring your attention to a brand new partner here on the show manakora honey.

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34:36 - Ray (Guest) I know you've had some injuries in the in the past, with your history and your story, and one of the things that's really important is is the, the archetypes that you, that you develop over time is the knowing of when to let them go and when to keep moving forward. And the one thing that I've, the work that I've done on myself through self-discovery, through the sava is has been I grew up as a as an injured athlete. Um, it was a big part of my archetype story and I I had three knee reconstructions, you know, from 13 years old, like 18, and then and you started young.

35:10 I started young man, I was on the physio table since I was a little kid, right. So like I had my first, like you know, major ankle injury at like 11 and from that it was just like a domino effect and so my whole childhood growing up was just pain, injury, back to the physio table like a ping pong table and and I kind of took that identity and I naturally went into the world of injury rehab and pain management and I wanted to help people. I'm I'm an empathetic, you know I'm an empath and wanted to help, heal and connect. So I I built whole 20-25 year career on this character that came from my childhood about this poor injured person and I wanted to help people. Now, where I'm going with this is, it's fascinating because while I built a great career in that and I my skills were certainly translated into helping people, but for myself I couldn't escape the pain conversation because I kept telling everyone this is who I am, I'm this injured athlete.

36:11 I am here to help you in pain. I'm also helping people in pain, so you get caught in this archetype of the pain body, right, you're physically talking about pain.

36:20 - Chase (Host) You're building that reality. You're building the reality.

36:22 - Ray (Guest) And I could never escape the pain and I, even as a practitioner I had so much self-guilt because I was fixing all these things. You know I was did very well in my career and, you know, worked with the you know, an incredible dream list of people that I, you know I still pinch myself of where I've been able to go and who I've been able to work with. But then I had to look at myself and say I built this whole thing on this, this really toxic kind of archetype where I keep telling myself about pain and injury and and I think once you can clip those cords and clip those archetypes, that's when the release can happen, that's when you can heal.

36:59 - Chase (Host) And make it sound so easy. Just whip out the scissors and cut the cord right. Yeah, and it's work.

37:04 - Ray (Guest) It's years and years of work in evolving your archetype and moving out of this stuck format of being in the pain cycle. And you know, pain in general is just it's. I've seen pain from everything from, you know, broken toes all the way through to really severe neurological disorders that you know make people's nerves feel like they're on fire, you know. So, over this time I've seen the full spectrum of pain very closely and and realized so much of it is unfortunately a major psychological conversation that you're having with yourself and that's where, for me, it was like okay, we really need to start shifting that conversation and really tapping into bigger conversations around our spirituality, our mental health and how our mind influences our biological state, which is really, really powerful, and how our mind talks to our body.

37:55 - Chase (Host) So that's kind of where absolutely to come from but that's kind of the whole point of all this and um, a really exciting opportunity for somebody to hopefully walk away from this conversation mulling over, and that's if you have not been able to cut the cord in your life on that identity, and I think I don't need to really describe it.

38:14 I think people you know, when you're out of truth with yourself and in truth with yourself, it's just kind of this inner pull and, for whatever reason, if you struggle with cutting the cord on that so that you can explore what your true identity is, or where your truest identity needs to kind of evolve to, um, experiences like this, altered states of consciousness, and I'm not talking jumping into the jungle, playing medicine, all in right away, you know, breath work, yeah, um, just getting out of your comfort zone and sitting in discomfort long enough to kind of just show you, yeah, your edges, yeah, um, I think that is such a beautiful point of all of this is that you don't need, there's no readiness required, um, if you are more ready, great, I think you might kind of, you know, tip over a little bit sooner. But if you're just at a point to where you're just open to the idea of being disrupted and being for what? 20 minutes up against your edges? Yeah, like that's really where cutting the cord can begin, yeah exactly.

39:18 - Ray (Guest) No, absolutely exactly.

39:19 And think of the, the most simplistic form, and, at the end of the day, we want to create a conversation around people using music as a form of healing.

39:32 And you know, for me, a big early inspiration was, you know, looking back at my childhood of, you know, growing up, I didn't have a smartphone. Growing up, they didn't exist at the time. So, um so for me, as a smartphone growing up, they didn't exist at the time. So, um so for me, as a, as a kid growing up, I would go to the. You know, I just have these powerful memories of going to the record store and buying a record and I would run home and I would put the record on and I would sit in my room on my bed and I would obsessively read the covers, I'd read all the lyrics, but I would sit there intently for that hour just listening to the album and just immersing myself in the music. And if you think about how, in the modern day now, how we experience music, we experience music while cooking dinner in the car at the gym while we're at yoga, at concerts, with friends.

40:20 When was the last time we just stripped away all the layers of information and download and actually just became one with an experience and? And that, if we really simplify it, just you sitting on a bed even if you kind of, you know, take one of these or you can't experience it. Just sitting on a bed and being connected with one thing that emotionally connects you, that is a profound form of meditation. That is a profound connection that drives emotion. And back to my point earlier the pathway to helping someone unlock these layers is driving emotion. And if we can have people having these emotional experiences, we then begin the process of awareness and self-awareness and we start creating self-awareness. We have the ability for people to change and if you can change, you impact people's lives.

41:07 - Chase (Host) Your family improves, your love life improves and it becomes this real, infectious pattern that can come from something so simple as just having awareness to oneself you've shared with me as part of the experience and everybody here, the depths to which you went to to really curate these sounds and this isn't no shade here to Shutterstock or you know stock supply, like it's not just going into a resource and pulling out Himalayan gong or tribal chants or ambient white noise and kind of putting it all together and finding one that works or is unique. You were sharing with me that you actually went to or on your team, someone went to and sat with Tibetan monks like 30 Tibetan monks to capture these chants, going down into the rainforest to capture these bird sounds. Why such great lengths to curate, curate such unique sounds and how do you feel like those are actually coming together to be something so different?

42:11 - Ray (Guest) No, I thank you and I love that because it's in the intention, right. The intention is to create something that is real, right and however way we want to mask it when you're using stock music or stock imagery or anything and no offense to anyone that does that, but it's there's. There's deep connection and emotion and intention that goes into that, and what we wanted to do with the creation of the music was we wanted to make sure that you're feeling the energy and the intention that's gone into it. So every single element has been handcrafted, handmade, like to your point.

42:47 - Chase (Host) We literally had cherry pegs all over the world world.

42:50 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, like there's a couple of tracks the one you heard today where there's this section where these birds just start kind of arriving in this kind of strange way. And we literally had our audio team go into the jungle in Mexico and they spent two nights camping with microphones just tuning into birds.

43:06 - Chase (Host) And we very Were you aware of the birds that you want to like. We want these specific birds. We also want to enable creativity.

43:12 - Ray (Guest) we had a, you know we gave what the concept was and then we sent our team in to go in and capture that and and it was really to you know, essentially to create these organic um moments, and also part of the storytelling of what we're doing with the music is also documenting it right.

43:28 So we want to tell these stories of of how these songs are created and and I think there's again to get to create a more emotional connection to what you're experiencing. I think it's really important for people to know that behind the scenes this is, you know, we're literally sending people into the amazon, we're sending people all around the world to meet with these monks and have these real incredible experiences, and a big part of what we're creating now, but also what we're creating in the future, is a series of sound journeys that connect with a lot of indigenous cultures and ancestral wisdom, and there's a few things we're still working through that I can't fully share yet, where there's a few things we're still working through that I can't fully share yet, but I think it's really important that, while this is clearly a very progressive sci-fi focused product and experience.

44:23 While everything's grounded in science and research, we also cannot forget the ancient wisdom that comes from generations and generations of ancestral wisdom, and I think, for us, we want to really marry that intention and make sure that you know everything that we create has, has impact, but also, you know, has a real, um, real depth to it. I think the depth in what we create is really important. So, yeah, and everything's, you know, as you've seen with the experience, like everything is attention to detail, right, everything in the product, materials, like the product, when you touch it. You know. This material, for example, um, it's something that we've been working on for years. We wanted this organic material to adapt to room temperature.

45:03 When I was saying earlier, we wanted to create this symbiotic connection between you and machine. It's not just through the connection, sorry, the connection of you and the song, it's also the sensory feedback and reaction as well. So certain materials will maintain cold temperatures and and when you touch something that feels cold, like you, you feel a disconnect, right. So even when you lay in the pod, this thing needs to feel like it's part of you and connecting with you. So everything's just in those little, little details from both, from the design all the way through to the music creation as well you have to watch the video, everybody just watch the video.

45:37 - Chase (Host) This design is stunning, and so to see something like this, I think first of all visually just be so appealing, already puts me and everybody else who's in the experience in a totally different state of thinking. Yeah, yeah, you're just you're, I. I'll speak for myself. It was in intrigue, it was in curiosity, I was in wonder, I was in sci-fi, I was already connecting the dots to a couple of our favorite films, you know Blade Runner and Tron, and it just immediately I'm in that kind of nostalgic, happy, centered to me place, yeah, and then I get to lay down and then please walk us through, like from design to experience, like what is going on here yeah, and so with the design, um, you know, I mentioned earlier the, what I wanted to do is, you know, the idea of sound and sound therapy.

46:27 - Ray (Guest) We wanted to really kind of raise the bar and reinvent what that could be um and for us to be taken seriously, um, we really needed to build something that um, from a design standpoint, made a statement and also objectively looks like a piece of art, right. So we wanted to create something from a high design standpoint and very much inspired by my sci-fi love of sci-fi and fantasy, from, you know, blade in the original blade runners to tron and you know all these incredible, like tron legacy, like they wish they had this on set exactly and I think you know for us to bring maybe a little bit more joyfulness and playfulness and and and some of the wonderful creativity and and curiosity that comes from sci-fi is kind of the dream state, right?

47:11 it's like fantasize, fantasizing and and if we're gonna put you in a pod that to help you travel inwards, it also needed to look like something that could potentially take you somewhere, right?

47:22 yeah so it was a big part of the design inspiration. I basically designed the pod to have this kind of asymmetrical form to it. So if you kind of see that the pod has this kind of sense of motion, like it's move, it has movement in it and it was really important as a product to translate that sense of motion right. Your mind is always in a state of motion. Your, your synapses, your cells, your, your entire body is always in a state of motion. You're never, ever, still, ever, um. So we kind of wanted to translate that sense of motion through it. Um.

47:52 And then one of the other things we did that was really important was you'll see these like contoured wings in the design, um. So we brought those in for a very specific reason. So in human psychology and when anyone is in a a really high stress state in fight or flight, anyone's having an episode, um, and the, the two most calming touch points for the human body is lateral touch, right. So if you really think about it and distill it down, it's a hug, right, absolutely the human condition needs to be hugged, doesn't matter how old we are.

48:23 It comes back from our time in the womb, from our childhood and in any states of stress the human condition needs to be held and comforted and feel safe. And if you can feel safe, your body will relax and you'll be able to recover from the traumas you're going through. So, from a design standpoint, when you lay down on top of the pod, your subconscious nervous system is gently receiving those hug touch points. So it's subtle nervous system is gently receiving those hug touch points. So it's subtle, yeah, but it's enough for your nervous system to actually acknowledge this kind of womb, like cradle, like kind of holding position, which creates an environment for your body to actually feel safe and it enables it to relax. And, for example, we did some research and found that any, any product or anything that has a lid or a chamber that you climb into, your subconscious nervous system stays in a sense of high alert because it's like how do I have to get out?

49:20 there's a risk, there is a potential risk of you being trapped in that, yeah, and that subtle subconscious awareness that's firing in the background is limiting your ability to fully let go. So even if you're getting the best, whatever therapy it is in that moment you're not fully allowing your system to let go.

49:38 So we kind of designed it to have this open top, so it created this kind of sense of space and freedom, but also that the, the cradling of the hug and the hold, um, it's very noticeable yeah and thank you and um, yeah, and then, underneath what you're laying on, we've created this specialized, uh, textured foam, uh, that we've worked years and years to develop to kind of make you feel like you're floating, um. And then we've, you know, built this platform so it has these um, we're basically channeling vibration and frequency into your body. So what happens is your, your body, is being kind of hypnotized rhythmically with this kind of womb-like heartbeat kind of rhythm, of bass kind of pulsating through your body, and then, simultaneously, your ears and brain is picking up on all this ear candy. Right, there's all this like spatial ear candy that's twinkling.

50:28 - Chase (Host) It's like what's that, what's that?

50:29 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, and we've worked really hard to kind of create this spatial sound um that that inspires you and just creates this kind of sense of of of curiosity and and joy and anyways, whatever emotion we're trying to create.

50:43 Um, so there's this kind of dual, dual pattern that's happening, where your body's being kind of put in this trance-like state of vibration and then your mind is being tuned into these frequencies and sounds that's playing through you, and we have the ability to play specific sounds and frequencies that tell your nervous system to relax and go to sleep or recover. But we can also drive your nervous system at the other end of the spectrum.

51:07 - Chase (Host) So it can really be kind of pick your own journey.

51:09 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so you can choose. So, whatever emotional state you're in, it's not always about just, you know, emptiness and and relaxation through silence. It's we can also stimulate the brain to think right. So we can actually, you know, if you're about to go into like a creative project and you just need that, like you've got that brain fog and you're just like I just need a little like reset, well, we can. You can go on a sound journey that has been designed to stimulate your brain and enhance the pineal gland activation to actually help creative pathways in information, and we've been able to use just various techniques and, between the, the technology we've developed in the pod to enhance that, and then the way the music's been produced as well. So it's this kind of like beautiful coming together.

51:53 - Chase (Host) That's incredible. It makes me think about people who say I can't relax, so therefore I can't meditate, or I've got brain fog, or I can't, for whatever reason, tap into those creative juices A lot of times. You know there could be a lot of factors contributing to those things, but it quite literally could just be your physiological state at that moment.

52:12 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, and I think there's a lot of like relief that should be found in hearing that, because if you can do something to jar your system in a positive and intentional way so that you can finally step into that state that you so desperately want or potentially even need, that's very rewarding to hear yeah very rewarding to yeah, and and how did like just on your experience, like how did that feel for you when you kind of went through that transition so you went from the calm experience and then went into the create experience, so you kind of got to experience these two very kind of polarizing experience very different. But um, just how does that?

52:53 - Chase (Host) on the first portion, the calm for me was much more. I felt the complete, full body mind release yeah it was just deep, restorative relaxation yeah and like this journey sensation. And then the second part was very, I mean just that transition of the sound into kind of the, uh, the, the japanese vocalists oh yeah, that was incredible, like japanese chants for lack of?

53:18 - Ray (Guest) am I saying that correctly?

53:20 - Chase (Host) yes, okay, yeah that was just so. I immediately came back back into my body, not in a non-relaxed way like I'm so aware of my body, I'm so aware, I'm so aware of what's going on, but just embodied, yeah, I should say, and that those kind of vocals just were a great reminder of the human experience yeah I felt so connected to that other human yeah, vocalizing and singing and chanting I love that and that was a that was so much.

53:47 - Ray (Guest) Something that we worked so hard on is to again, to keep coming back to that point of emotion, right, like emotion in terms of when you look at the product, how does that make you feel? You said before, it makes. It brings on curiosity, wonder, excitement. How does the music make you feel? And even with the way the vocals were coming in for the create song it was really about. It was even for me. When I hear that song, there's this kind of like a silliness to it, there's like a playfulness like I that's what I get from it.

54:12 I feel this childlike kind of silliness in the way we've used the vocals for the song which is great.

54:18 - Chase (Host) We all could probably use a little bit more there.

54:20 - Ray (Guest) And I think there's just these layers and you might feel a very different thing, right, because you're tuned very differently. You might feel a different type of emotion from that. So's just, and that goes back to our earlier point of like why we had someone literally camping in the jungle with microphones to tune the ears. We could have easily just pulled stock footage.

54:37 - Chase (Host) They all get paid enough for this. I know, I know, just find a Google track.

54:41 - Ray (Guest) We could have easily just pulled stock footage and maybe, look, maybe it sounds the same, I don't know. But we know it's real and we put that intention in there and that translates to your experience and that brings more feelings of emotions through it it's like what do they say?

54:54 - Chase (Host) you know the recipe. The secret ingredient is love. You know when you try to mimic your your mother, your grandmother, your grandfather's like favorite cookie or? Dish you know the exact ingredients are all right there, but it just doesn't quite hit it's good to grandmas, right, exactly that's such a good point. It's like when you have this knowing of the depths to which somebody went to create something for you In my experience, I'm always more connected to that experience, that thing, that food. So you know, I think there's a human knowing.

55:27 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, the intention in it is really powerful. And then the other thing is like, even with the LED, you know, as you caught a very Tron inspired and Blade Runner has been a huge you know influence for me throughout the design process but even with the environmental lighting, with the LED, the light will also change colors based on what sound journey you're on.

55:49 So we know colors like blue signify a more calm state for your environmental nervous system. So you're actually perceptually receiving that environmental mood shift by just being in a room with blue light like this. And then we, when the create songs come on, the whole pod will change color and it moves to like a warm orange, amber type color and that when you wake up from the journey, that you're waking up to this sunlight right, you're waking up to this brightness, this warmth which is also telling your brain from a creative standpoint to wake up and stimulate. So we've kind of really factored a lot, you know, everything in from just the environmental feeling of the experience to the ergonomic feeling of the experience and then to the sensory experience that you're feeling. And then when you kind of pair the to the ergonomic feeling of the experience and then to the sensory experience that you're feeling, and then when you kind of pair the environmental, the ergonomic, the sensory kind of feedback, it's a pretty powerful experience very powerful.

56:40 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, and I want to, um, I want to piggyback on that because I think there's some really strong takeaways. For somebody who's listening and going, I would like to just adopt this somehow some way in my everyday life and the struggles that we have to be able to set the intention, to execute and to keep that, that energy, that calm, that focus, that meditative state, whatever, um, you're, you're seeing some really important things and some things that we might be missing, and that's what colors are in our environment, what light ambient light, intentional light, sound, smell, touch, feel, temperature. I can remember the first couple of times I really intentionally tried to calm down, to meditate, to insert stillness into a regular wellness practice. I wasn't doing any of that stuff, I had no idea. You know maybe a couple, but they're so beneficial they really set the tone and the potential for that practice long before you actually even try to drop in.

57:43 So there's that component, but then also devil's advocate-ish a little bit. The wellness industry is booming right now. There are so many wellness technologies and health spas and tools and, you know, at the local gym or like these crazy retreats yeah, is this just another super high-end wellness thing that can only really be access to the already affluent, the already well person and kind of already has that advantage All intents and purposes. Couldn't we just lay down, close our eyes and, you know, get the same place.

58:21 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I think we've been trying for decades with that, like you know, with the various meditation apps and the modalities that have been available, and if we look at the data, right now we're in an epidemic of anxiety and stress. So it's it's clearly not the. The current format isn't, isn't working. So we need, we need that needs to change and you know, I think for us was absolutely um, you know, building. So what we've been doing behind the scenes is building an entire ecosystem of of products. Um, so what we're releasing right now is the salva pod, which is the, the kind of top tier, it's the, you know, the premium, ultra lux kind of version of what we've created. Um, and these are going to be going into um elite, professional sporting facilities, from medical facilities to luxury um of wellness hotels, social wellness clubs. You know that sector.

59:15 - Chase (Host) Already kind of going into that type of environment we're going into that environment.

59:18 - Ray (Guest) They're also going to homes, but what we're also doing is introducing, in probably short order we're probably about 18 months away, it's already done but basically we're going to be introducing a low-cost consumer version as well. Well, so the entire goal is to not we want to make this accessible for all, but in order for us to to educate the market, we kind of need to get these into these trusted establishments that people already have the trust and they have the experience to, which will allow us to give the, the broader public, the ability to go in and experience it.

59:52 So and then choose to maybe kind of bring it home exactly so we we are working incredibly hard in in developing these really strategic partnerships. That's going to allow um everyone access to coming in and experiencing this, even if they can't afford it. Right, it's even for for a low-cost visit like going to class. You can go in and have this immersive sound therapy experience.

01:00:12 - Chase (Host) Maybe this will be on someone's ClassPass account, you know, next year or something, yeah.

01:00:16 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, so you'll have this ability to access it and then, over time, as we continue to grow and scale, there'll be the more kind of home-friendly versions that's going to come out as well. So yeah, there's lots of exciting developments in the works.

01:00:32 - Chase (Host) Another question comes to mind for me what's the protocol? I'm curious. What duration are you all seeing the most benefit from in terms of a one-off experience? And then, what do you have, if any, in terms of longevity? Have you seen? This person has done it three times a week for 22 minutes for six months.

01:00:52 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, so the the, the current research and science right now shows that 22 minutes is the optimal window to receive the most benefits from fibroacoustic sound therapy.

01:01:02 Um, so on our app you can we've got express versions of 11 minutes to 22, 33, 44 minutes of each sound journey that you can choose from. But in terms of the, so the 22 minutes is the minimum, that kind of minimum recommendation dose. But like any practice, like daily exercise, daily meditation, the more you do it, the better you get at it, the deeper you go, and so it's really you know, I think, if anything from once a week to once a day is all applicable. But what we've basically done is we've just begun some incredible research programs where we're working with some incredible partners, where we're already. We have research programs underway that is studying the benefits for PTSD trauma. We've also got a research program underway that is studying the the benefits for ptsd um, really trauma. We've also got a research program underway right now that's studying the human performance benefits of the product for professional athletes, um and how are you measuring that?

01:02:01 um, so the programs are looking at everything from, uh, brain waves, so we're actually monitoring the reaction of the brain hemisphere and actually how sound is actually influencing our, our actual brain frequency, like cognition, like brain response time, kind of stuff yeah, exactly like actually looking at the actual entire brain hemisphere and actually how the, the music, is being able to retune it.

01:02:23 Um, we're also seeing applications where we're testing. So we're looking at everything from, you know, the, the brain waves and the frequency to hrv heart rate response. Um, we're also, uh, looking into the lymphatic um response as well, which is a really, really big one.

01:02:38 Yes, wow, yeah, isn't getting probably isn't getting talked about enough because, um, you know, knowing that the human body is over 70 fluid between lymphatic blood and water, you actually have more lymphatic liquid in your body than you do blood, and lymphatic disease and dysfunction is one of the biggest drivers of chronic pain. It's one of the biggest drivers of disease and neurological disorders.

01:03:04 - Chase (Host) So are you all seeing this move, the lymphatic system, are you?

01:03:08 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, so that's what we're, you know, that's why we have research programs underway right now. So we're we're deeply, you know, really prioritizing the, the deep understanding of these kind of impacts so I can stop dry brushing.

01:03:20 - Chase (Host) I can just do this guy from now on. That's the goal.

01:03:23 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of why for us, you know, while we're, you know, launching the company right now, but we're we're really prioritizing the deeper understanding on the medical applications. We already have incredible research on the benefits of it for Alzheimer's disease, parkinson's disease, musculoskeletal disorders. There's research that shows that test groups have, just from doing 22 minutes alone, have seen a 54% reduction in chronic pain, just general chronic pain, in per and permanent reduction.

01:03:57 - Chase (Host) So not just gone while in session. These have been long lasting through repeated use.

01:04:03 - Ray (Guest) Um, so these are just the beginnings of of the information that we're. You know, it's just we're just scratching the surface of where you're taking it next?

01:04:10 - Chase (Host) Like what I mean. We're just scratching the surface of. Where are you taking it next? Like what I mean. Clearly, this is a product of an incredible vision and someone who has immense creativity. Where do you pull your creativity from? I know we kind of talked about, you know, love for sci-fi and certain types of music, but where do you pull your creativity from? Maybe now, Because I'm sure you have to. You are thinking you know the future, you know this is an incredible example of creativity, but where do you go from here?

01:04:37 - Ray (Guest) yeah, so we've. We've done a few things. That's a little um against the norm in terms of how companies are built, um. So we've actually spent the last few years behind the scenes in stealth mode and we've actually been building the next 10 years of innovation behind the scenes and we've already built the next three products in our entire pipeline that's already designed, developed and ready to go.

01:04:57 - Chase (Host) You waited quite a long period of time until this kind of came out, so that you're kind of just doing the same thing again, right, well, we, we spent a lot of time kind of building.

01:05:06 - Ray (Guest) it was really important the the vision as we talk about creative states and you know my my love of world building and and and fantasy genres was really inspired around building these product ecosystems that talk to each other, and the goal was can we build a technology company that is really truly at the intersection of physical, emotional and mental health right? So the product ecosystem that we've built and are kind of implementing is a series of technology products that integrate all the elements of physical, emotional and mental well-being and while this is a, as you've experienced, it's a combination of mind and body right, it is truly and obviously, when you start saying mind and body connection, it's that your eyes start to roll after a while, because we've heard it a million times.

01:05:56 It sounds a little corny after a while in the wellness industry in terms of the overuse of mind, body connection.

01:06:03 But this is a real true. I think for us and I'm just digressing a little bit One of the earlier questions you asked was the inspiration, and I think what's really powerful is what we really wanted to ask through our research and experience, through plant medicine and just knowing how far we can push consciousness like how far consciousness can go, and actually having a sneak peek behind the curtain of source of information, and I'm sure you've had your experiences as well and you, you have these profound moments of of understanding of source and information and and that for me is the was the biggest goal of building this Can we get people to achieve a higher state of consciousness by at least just moving the population a little further forward?

01:06:56 So the goal was can we get people off the meditation cushion? And okay, so if you look at the whole spectrum of the meditation kind of line, you have meditation that we know of now. You have, at the other end of the spectrum, the psychedelic experience, which is the most profound human experience you can probably ever have, and I think every human being on this planet should just try that or not try it, but I just just to know what the human body can do and be open to that concept, to that concept of actually just understanding how powerful our mind is and and when we can activate it.

01:07:34 So I think it was really about okay, if we know the majority of the population is here in the typical meditation, 20 minutes a day listening to a mantra or listening to their guru, and then the other end of the spectrum is the psychedelic experience and knowing that even when psychedelics do become legalized and that agenda is incredible of what you know, people like rick doblin and maps are doing and just pushing this initiative, the mass population is going to take a long time to to really do that, and so our goal was can we get someone from here to here, you know, at least move us forward to that direction and start having bigger conversations and um, and I think that is where we're going to make the most impact. And even, you know, even today, when we finished our session, you know the integration component, which is so powerful, so powerful and necessary, in my opinion, that ability for us to not only go through the experience and and travel inwards, have these conversations work through layers of emotions.

01:08:30 But then what's what I love more than anything about this is experience is actually the post-conversation experience and where we get to, as also grown men, talking about our emotions and talking about our feelings and and watching how that opens people up like a flower like we've seen.

01:08:47 We've literally seen some of the most alpha type a kind of you know people come in and break them open immediately after that experience and talking about their childhood and their emotions and and that for me, that is healing right. That is, if the ultimate goal is is to help people, I think if we can do that it's's, it's really powerful.

01:09:08 - Chase (Host) So yeah, it's been a powerful experience to go through it individually and such an even more uniquely powerful experience to go through it in a group dynamic now. So I will say thank you for both experiences, thank you for sharing this experience with me and the audience. Before I get to my final question, in the kind of the, the wellness space in general, what are you most excited about? What? Do you kind of see the space, or maybe even on the consumer side, kind of progressing towards an area that you personally feel very aligned with and are happy about and kind of maybe see, you know, something really grabbing hold in a positive way?

01:09:53 - Ray (Guest) yeah, I think it's. It's a great.

01:09:55 I think the wellness industry is going through like a resonance right now I agree, sorry, a renaissance right now and I feel like there's this big catalytic shift that's happening right now and I feel like it's it feels so obvious, like it's like how have we taken, how has it taken this long to get to this point where we're? We're talking about ancestral wisdom, finally, right, like, like, obviously, finally, like, of course, people have been singing this song for generations, but I think, as a, as a collective, we're starting to have these conversations in in much bigger, bigger circles we're seeing you know these, you know these bigger circles.

01:10:31 We're seeing these bigger, more important conversations happening. So I feel like what's happening in the wellness industry is a deeper awareness to holistic healing, to a balance, I think, a balance between medical and also the unknown right, I think, which is really powerful, because everything right now is still. I'm loving all the neuroscientists that are out and I love all the science and data that's coming out, Cause I've been wanting that my whole life, but I'm also like I'm wanting everyone to take a breath and also look at the things that we don't know. Let's, let's let's keep curious and let's keep pushing all the things. Maybe it's not in a research paper right now, but it doesn't mean it's not feasible or it's not capable, and it's back to that God complex of us wanting to own the machines, right, it's like this, ironic, like balance.

01:11:22 So I think, and that's kind of why I have in here, I have this quote by Edgar Cayce, and Edgar Cayce is a, a, he was an american, he was one of america's first ever clairvoyants and psychics, and um, he, I think he was born in like 1870s and he um. But can you imagine being a, can you imagine being a psychic in the in the early 1900s?

01:11:45 - Chase (Host) you were a crazy man. Yeah, you're a crook, you're right.

01:11:49 - Ray (Guest) So and back then he was famous for being called the sleep prophet and one of his claims was he could transcend consciousness through sleep and meditation. And one of his biggest visions he had was he believed that sound was going to be the medicine of the future. So we kind of wanted to use that in this experience to really remind people that we are in the future and we also have to remember that some of these kooky, crazy people we've written off in history and time may you be onto something. Just because it's not in a science research paper doesn't mean it's necessarily real. And yeah, he was actually the psychic and advisor to, like Thomas Edison and Marilyn Monroe, houdini.

01:12:27 - Chase (Host) And.

01:12:27 - Ray (Guest) Houdini as well, like major, influential figures of our time. So I think it's like a nice reminder to balance the scales of yes, let's ground everything in science and research Absolutely, but also let's let's keep let's keep looking at what's ahead and maybe let's not forget some of the ancestral wisdom or some of the maybe the outside the box thinkers that have been in our thoughts over these years, cause I think it's gotta be a healthy balance.

01:12:55 - Chase (Host) It all matters. It all matters and I kind of feel like I got an interpretation of what could be your answer to this from that last statement.

01:13:05 but this is all meant to help me and the audience learn something new, or to be reminded of something we can come back to, um, for our own personal wellness, our own personal resilience, um, but then also to be able to learn how to apply these things in a unique way and to move forward in life and to keep living a life ever forward. I say so, what do those two words mean to you? How would you say you live a life ever forward?

01:13:29 - Ray (Guest) life ever forward for me is it's really grounded in a collective consciousness. I think that is, for me, is the ultimate goal of an ever forward life. Is is is creating a collective consciousness, raising our awareness and vibration, and I think, with the implementation of the salva pod, is is creating these experiences for people to talk about their emotions, talk about their feelings. Let's have people open up and I think, if we can create a better collective conversation around vulnerability and healing, that is essentially the pathway to better families, relationships, your partnerships. That is, for me, is the gateway to a healthier life, a healthier family caring for your loved ones. I think it's a really it sounds simple, but it's a profound goal is to, you know, create that more collective consciousness, which is what we're working towards.

01:14:30 - Chase (Host) If I can do it and if you can do it, and if we all can do it individually, then we all are doing it collectively.

01:14:37 - Ray (Guest) Exactly.

01:14:37 - Chase (Host) And that's what I'm after as well.

01:14:38 - Ray (Guest) Yeah, exactly, and just on that, we've talked a lot about vibration, energy frequency, but while we've kind of shown on the floor the frequency of energy moving through water but your energy, my energy is also it's a reminder for us that how you show up for people and how you show up to others directly impacts other people. Right, and if you've ever spent time with a shaman or someone deeply spiritual, you know, just being in their presence, you feel grounded. You, you get this sense of I want to make people feel like that. That's what I get when I'm around someone of that deep spiritual nature, I I walk away feeling I can do better. I want to make people feel like that when I walk into a room yeah and that is infectious.

01:15:29 That's a such a powerful thing to have. And in the same way, when someone walks into a room in a really bad state or you just meeting someone for the first time and you get this ping like something's off, you get that creepy kind of vibe.

01:15:43 And we've all experienced it. And that is, you know, a clear example of someone's vibrational frequency being so off scale that you're feeling their energy before they even say anything. You're just feeling it. And I think going back to that collective consciousness narrative is that is how we can make change, is through how we show up from a level of vibration and frequency.

01:16:06 - Chase (Host) Well, I'm down to feel this vibration frequency anytime. Two times has been incredible, very appreciative. Thank you again so much. Well, I'm down to feel this vibration frequency anytime. Two times has been incredible, very appreciative. Thank you again so much. If you all listening, watching, please got to check out this video. It's so beautiful. I'm so proud to kind of bring this interpretation of my experience here beyond just a conversation we could have had anywhere else. So again, thank you. Thank you. Where can everybody go to connect with Sava, to maybe tap into an experience and learn more about what you know?

01:16:32 - Ray (Guest) you know terça and the whole world's got going on thank you and thank you for for this, uh, this great conversation and it's it's been amazing. Um, so we're, yeah, so you can go to our website. So, terçaco, um, we've basically just announced, um, the, so basically, the units are now officially for sale. So we've, uh, we have our pre-order available. We are beginning delivery pretty much next month limited quantities, right, yeah, so we're doing limited editions as well.

01:16:56 So we're not um, you know. So we have a limited edition that we're selling and then um, but everything's available for pre-order and um, yeah, we can go to the website and learn more well, I'll leave for you guys down in the show notes in the description box in the video.

01:17:09 - Chase (Host) If you enjoy this video, please smash the thumbs up button, subscribe to the channel. If you're listening, come to the video. I'll stop saying it, but if you're listening, following subscribing on your podcast platform of choice does a lot of good for the show Supports us in some big big ways so we can keep doing big big things like this. So thank you and ever forward For more information on everything you. So thank you and EverForward.