EFR 825: What Happens When You Die and Other Stories From Shared Death and Near Death Experiences, How to Cure Cancer, and the Consciousness Diet with Dr. Katie Deming

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production. What happens when you die?

00:05 - Katie (Guest) When medical professionals write these articles about consciousness, it's almost with the like incorrect understanding of what it is, because a lot of those studies look at like when the brain dies, somehow consciousness dies. But we actually are limited. When we are embodied in this 3D body, our perception of who we are and the information that we have access to is limited by this physical body and as you start to release the body, you realize you're one with everything and are aware of everything. We have experiences from people who've had near-death experiences and they say very similar things that absolutely that is data. We're fooling ourselves when we say, because we can't measure something, it doesn't exist, because everything that I had been taught in medical school was what makes us sick.

00:56 - Chase (Host) You help people die.

00:58 - Katie (Guest) Exactly, Death is a sacred event and me it's a privilege to be there with someone.

01:05 - Chase (Host) Can we cure cancer?

01:07 - Katie (Guest) Yes, hi, my name is Dr Katie Deming, the conscious oncologist. Welcome to Everford Radio.

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04:32 Everford Radio listener. I'm your host, chase Tuning, certified health coach, army veteran wellness entrepreneur and someone who is very excited to talk about today's topic consciousness and what is on the other side, what is waiting for us in the afterlife. Today's guest is Dr Katie Deming. She is a conscious oncologist, not to mention a TEDx speaker, Duke-trained, former board-certified radiation oncologist specializing in breast and gynecologic malignancies, host of the Born to Heal podcast and creator of the first cancer-specific patient advisory council with Kaiser Permanente nationally. So a very accomplished, very established physician. But she is here to talk about something that might catch you off guard coming from a quote typical MD Today's episode.

05:21 We're talking about the profound topics of consciousness and what happens when we die. Dr Deming is going to be sharing her unique insights, challenging conventional medical views on consciousness, and also through her professional experiences in end-of-life care and her own personal encounters with near-death and shared-death experiences. Katie is gonna be revealing how our awareness and consciousness expand as we approach death. In leaning into her history and training in oncology, working with people navigating cancer, she's gonna be sharing some profound clinical evidence that is gonna leave your jaw on the floor. I know it was mine, in fact. You can see it happen many times in the video If you check it out at everfordradiocom.

06:05 Also, you can check us out on YouTube. Make sure to smash that thumbs up button. Subscribe to the channel if you're a visual learner. That and so much more is waiting for you down in the show notes, as always. Everything we talk about, the great deals from today's sponsors, katie's content, her information and all these amazing resources are waiting for you down in the episode show notes under episode resources what happens when you die. And there's this article I found from the Cleveland Clinic on periods of unconsciousness, and I would love to kind of just get your take from this little blurb please and this is a quote. I'll have everything linked for you guys in the show notes.

06:40 As death approaches, you may drift from sleep into unconsciousness, much like being in a coma or dream state. You may wake up later unaware that you are unconscious. Toward the end, you'll remain in this unconscious state of extended rest. Research suggests that even as your body transitions into unconsciousness, it's possible that you'll still be able to feel comforting touches from your loved ones and hear them speaking. Touch and hearing are the last senses to go when we die. I feel like that has to be really comforting from a hope standpoint of the loved one. Maybe with someone that is transitioning, um, that, oh, like they're still in there and some level, some form of them can, can, hear me, feel me, sense me. In your professional experience, is that true, and what's your kind of take on what I just read?

07:35 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, well, I think. What's interesting is, I think that that what is being presented there is from the idea that somehow consciousness comes from the mind and as the body and the brain start to shut down, that consciousness diminishes. But my perspective and my own personal experience is that consciousness is not local and it expands as we start to get close approaching death and that actually my experience of being with people as they transition and then also having my own shared death experience, is that our awareness and consciousness expands as we loosen the grips on this physical body. And so actually, if you hear from people who have near death experiences who actually, you know, cross over and then come back, they'll describe that they were aware of even more and that's my experience is that as people get close to their own tradition, tradition transition, they start to increase their awareness and so absolutely I think, as someone is sick and approaching death for the loved ones, they absolutely hear what you say and they also are experiencing your love, and probably in a more profound way than what you see of them just lying in the bed, because, like Anita, morjani is a really good example of a near-death experience and where she explains that she could even see what her brother was doing when he was on an airplane, traveling right.

09:19 So all of a sudden she had totally expanded her awareness. She could hear what the doctors were saying down the hall and later she told them and they said there's no way you could have heard that. But it was because she was realizing that she wasn't just this body and that her consciousness was expanding, or maybe her awareness of her consciousness that already existed was expanding as the grips of this body and the veil started to dissolve. And so I think that when medical professionals write these articles about consciousness, it's almost with the like, a incorrect understanding of what it is, because a lot of those studies look at like when the brain dies, somehow consciousness dies. But my understanding is that we actually are limited. When we are in, embodied in this 3d body, our perception of who we are and the information that we have access to is limited by this physical body. And as you start to release the body, you realize you're one with everything and are aware of everything. So I just I have like I just see it all in kind of a different way.

10:37 - Chase (Host) That's so beautiful to think about, no matter what you might believe or what have maybe thought about what comes after death. Just to hear someone like yourself who is so professionally, medically, clinically trained, in end of life to kind of talk about these things, about as this form might be ending, other forms, other entities of our form kind of begin or like heightened so it's really kind of no end and no beginning. It's just like a exchange really.

11:11 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, we want a shift of who we think we are Right, and I think that's one of the beautiful things about death.

11:22 You know, don Juan from the Carlos Castaneda Don Juan books talks about death as being the greatest advisor, and it really is.

11:30 As we get close to that door, the veil of this reality starts to thin and you start to remember right, remembering who we, we are, because when we come into form, we forget, and that's part of this life experience, and the lessons that we're meant to learn is through the forgetting. And so as you start to transition out of this lifetime and this body, this vehicle that you have, you start to integrate back into your wholeness, and that's what I see life as Like we come in, we're, you know, this infinite being that takes form, that then feels like we're finite, and we forget who we really are. And as we start to get close to that door again, we start to remember. And actually that's what drew me into working with people who have cancer, because when people face their own mortality, there's so much that opens there that they start to remember, they start to see, they start to say the things that they wish they had done differently, and for me, I've learned so much from being close to that For me.

12:42 - Chase (Host) I've learned so much from being close to that. Another article I found from BBC Science writes, quote we have no proven way to investigate what people experience during dying. Recent research shows that even close to death the unconscious brain responds to noises in the room, kind of like what we're just talking about. And they wrap up by saying we don't know how much sense music or voices make to a dying person.

13:14 - Katie (Guest) We have no proven way to investigate what people experienced during dying. Do you agree with that? Yes and no, right, I think that yes, from an objective data standpoint. How do you collect something that is, you know, beyond this physical limitation of the body? But we have experiences from people who've had near death experiences and they say very similar things that absolutely that is data and that is information. It's just not in the way that our scientists, science has developed to be able to tap into that yet, but I so I think they're correct in that. Yes, maybe we don't have the objective information from a measurement standpoint, but we absolutely have information from so many people who've had these experiences. Right, and some people might say, well, oh, when someone's having a near-death experience or having electrical impulses in the brain and it's not real, it's just all because of their body shutting down.

14:13 - Chase (Host) Which there probably is some truth to that right. There are a lot of changes happening physiologically.

14:18 - Katie (Guest) There absolutely are changes that are happening physiologically, that are happening physiologically, but for so the experience that I had, which is a shared death experience that happens most commonly to healthcare professionals or emergency personnel who are at the scene where someone else transitions, those people describe very similar things to the people that had near death experiences describe, and so I don't think that you can explain that with electrical activity or shutdown of the brain, because here you have people who are completely conscious, did not die, but have very similar experiences, and I think this is one of the limitations of science that we want to be able to explain everything.

15:05 But I think the reality is so much more magical and mysterious that I just think that we're fooling ourselves when we say, because we can't measure something, it doesn't exist.

15:17 - Chase (Host) Could not agree more. Could not agree more. Okay, so you mentioned a couple of times you were shared death experience. Can you walk us through what is that? What was that like? What does that mean? And then I actually want to ask some questions around is an NDE, a near death experience, the same thing as an OOBE, an out of body experience, kind of? Just get some some expressions and definitions around these various states please.

15:42 - Katie (Guest) Okay. So I didn't know what a shared death experience was until it happened to me, and it's not common, but when it happens, it most commonly happens to healthcare professionals or emergency personnel who are at the scene when someone transitions. And what's interesting is, usually the people are at the scene where it happens. But in my case I was not at the scene. I was entangled energetically with the person, but not physically with them. One night when I was meditating, I had a woman's voice come into my meditation and she said to me I can't let go, but it's not because of me, it's because of them. I can't let go, but it's not because of me, it's because of them. And I've spent so much time in my career around people who are dying and I instinctively knew that she was talking about dying and that she was talking about her friends or family that she felt like she couldn't let go because of them. And so I just started talking to her and saying there's no rush, you'll know when it's time and I'll stay with you.

16:51 - Chase (Host) And this is a sober state. You were just meditating.

16:54 - Katie (Guest) Yeah. So I hadn't been doing anything, hadn't done any drugs I've never done plant medicine I basically was just meditating and I um at. So basically I heard this voice and I just went with it and I just knew that she needed me and I had been with so many people who have transitioned that I just talked to her like as if I was physically with her even though it probably seemed very familiar for you, right it?

17:20 was exactly like. It just felt like I knew what to do and so I could help her. And so then I just sat with her in meditation and at some point during the meditation I saw who this was. And it was this woman and her name was Misty. And I had never met Misty, but I was connected to Misty because she was the best friend of one of my colleagues at work and the colleague had been helping Misty you know, make sure that she was taken care of. And so I was helping coach my colleague and I was making sure Misty's wishes were honored, that she could stay home, that she didn't have unnecessary treatments, and also supporting my colleague because both of them were very young, so they were childhood best friends, both in their early 30s, and so my colleague was losing her best friend, and so not only was I helping coach her through how to care for Misty, but I was also coaching her.

18:20 How do you grapple with losing your best friend in your early 30s? And so at some point I saw that it was Misty, and then I just sat with her and I think that I was in meditation about 40 minutes, but at some point in the meditation I started to feel her soul. The best thing I would describe is I could feel the essence of her pulling away from her body. It was like this tugging. And all of a sudden I heard these pops like pop, pop, pop, like strings popping, and I could tell something was pulling away from her physical body. And as the last string popped, all of a sudden it was like the sky opened up and I was inside.

19:03 The most bright, beautiful, warm, loving light that I've ever experienced Was just overcome with love and joy and peace. And at that moment Misty gasped and she was like, oh my gosh, I never had to worry, it's so beautiful. And she was like I could feel that she was like in tears from how beautiful it was. And all of a sudden she was gone and I was just in this space by myself and I I really didn't know what it meant, I didn't know where I was, but I just kind of soaked it in like just this beautiful love, this bathing light, and then eventually I came out. I don't know how long I was in that, because time doesn't exist in that space, but I came back out and then I was like what happened?

19:58 - Chase (Host) I mean literally.

19:59 - Katie (Guest) I was just like a 3D doctor, like I literally was like a straight up Western doctor and I had this experience and I didn't know what it meant, I didn't know if it was real, I didn't know what to make of it and I didn't even tell my husband. That night I just went to bed because I was like he's going to think something's wrong with me.

20:16 - Chase (Host) You're probably trying to figure out what the hell just happened. I didn't know what had happened. How do I even explain that?

20:20 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, I didn't know how to explain it, so I just went to bed and then in the morning when I woke up, I woke up to a text from my colleague and the text said Thank you for helping me with Misty. Misty died last night and I didn't have the nerve to tell her because I didn't. I still didn't know what to make of all this and I didn't want to upset her. I did, you know, and so I was like you know, I'm so sorry for your loss and do you mind telling me, like, what time did she die? Right, because I was just like trying to figure this out and she passed within a few moments of me coming out of that meditation, and so for me, that was confirmation that what had happened was real, you know, because I think I could have brushed it off if I hadn't gotten that confirmation. I might have been like I don't know what that was, but clearly this confirmation came in for me to be able to recognize. Ok, this really did happen. Something metaphysical happened in that experience and it really opened so much for me, because before that I had in 2019, so this experience happened in the fall of 2020.

21:35 And in 2019, I had had this like niggling, feeling like something was off, and that particularly that maybe I wasn't supposed to be practicing radiation oncology, which made zero sense because I had spent my whole life. I didn't have my first job until I was 32 because I was in training. Right, I trained my whole life for this job and I was the sole breadwinner in my family and I loved what I did. I, you know, had like my patients. You know I was doing good work. I had the respect of my colleagues. I was also leading at a very high level. I had just been nominated to become the national medical director for all of cancer care for one of the largest health care organizations in the United States.

22:19 - Chase (Host) Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, for you, that's incredible.

22:21 - Katie (Guest) Yeah. So I would in that position, I would have been in charge of cancer prevention screening treatment, all of that for like 12 million Americans.

22:34 - Chase (Host) It was a very big job.

22:34 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, here's this thought. Nah, yeah. So I had had this niggling feeling like something was wrong and then I was interviewing for this position and ultimately it came down to me and another another woman and she got the position, and I knew that happened for this position. And ultimately it came down to me another another woman and she got the position, and I knew that happened for a reason. I was like I know that I wasn't supposed to do that and literally like a week later, I had the shared death experience. And what that shared death experience just confirmed that, yeah, I'm not supposed to be doing this and that healing is not what I'm doing, like what we're doing in Western medicine is not how the body truly heals. But the hard part was that it didn't show me what the answer was.

23:12 - Chase (Host) And.

23:12 - Katie (Guest) I think this is one of the things for people who are having awakening experiences is that sometimes the only thing you know is what's not right. And my job was to let go of the things that I knew were not right but that had huge consequences. Right Because my whole career I still had student loans. I made a very good living. If I let this go, what was I going to do? My husband absolutely was not on board for it because he was like, well, what are you gonna do? You're just gonna stop. And he's like you're gonna go train and do something else.

23:49 And I was like I don't really trust the system anymore so I don't want to jump into like another job or another you know, do some administrative job. I could have done a lot of things, but I was like, no, I need to just step away and I need to start learning what actually creates wellness in the body, because everything that I had been taught in medical school was what makes us sick and like what's wrong with the body pathophysiology. So basically, that event just made it clear for me I'm not on the right path, I need to figure it out and I need to step off, and it basically blew up my whole life. I mean, I, I stepped into it and chose it. So, yeah, that was like the beginning of like unraveling my traditional career and stepping into what I'm doing now.

24:36 - Chase (Host) Isn't that the fun thing about awakenings? They're such this excuseedged sword of you. Have this awakening, this realization, even if it's not about a specific thing, it's just this box opening up of higher awareness, and with that comes usually to what? In my experience, there hasn't always been an awakening with a direct answer. It's an awakening to the work and awakening to to your point, not that which is so double-edged. It's so amazing and next level and what I think a lot of people might be looking for in terms of meaning, fulfillment, or just knowing that they can control their destiny, or there's a higher purpose, or just something other than what they're currently experiencing. But then, with that, is what is it?

25:28 - Katie (Guest) Well, and I think you know, I feel very fortunate and I and I really believe that all of our paths are designed, you know, intentionally for things to line up, in a way to give us the clues that we need to find our path.

25:44 But for me, spending so much time around death actually really helped me know what to do with that event, and that in 2019,. So a couple things. One is that, being around people who are close to death, they would often say to me I wish I had the courage to just be myself, to not do what everyone else wanted me to do, and I regret that I wasn't true to myself. So I had that as a very clear message I had heard over and over again and so when this event happened and I could sense that something wasn't true for me, I knew that I would regret at the end of my life not letting go and seeing what was there Right. So I had that. But then the other thing is that in 2019, I had helped a patient transition using medical aid and dying, and this is something that's legal in Oregon, where I live, and it's not euthanasia because basically, the person takes it's, they take the medication and you're not administering it, yeah it's not administered by a doctor.

26:57 The doctor writes the prescription, but the person needs to be of sound mind, have a terminal illness and take the medications on their own volition.

27:07 - Chase (Host) So you help people die, but you're not the one that actually technically makes that happen.

27:13 - Katie (Guest) Exactly. We provide the medication and then they yeah, but what's interesting is most people don't end up taking the medication. It's like only a third of the people who start the whole process actually take it. It's like only a third of the people who start the whole process actually take it. It's more to give people control so that they can avoid unnecessary suffering, and so when I decided to participate in medical aid in dying, I had said that any patient of mine who chooses this route, I would be there with them physically when they took the medication which is not required.

27:49 - Chase (Host) So most doctors don't they? You know that's off to you. That's an incredible. I mean, what an honor to be chosen to, to be that person for these people at their end of end of time, but also to like go above and beyond. That's incredible. Hey, friends, quick break from my conversation with Dr Katie Deming to bring your attention to something that provides immense relief to my mind and my body, something that I really honestly look forward to pretty much every day. It's kind of the end of the day ritual for me. Now I'm reaching for these Serenity Gummies from today's sponsor, cured Nutrition.

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29:53 - Katie (Guest) Yeah well, I think it's a sacred event to save 20%? Yeah well, I think it's. It's a sacred event. Death is a sacred event, and for me, it's a privilege to be there with someone, and so I just. For me, it was one of those things where I just had decided that I would make that available, to be there, and so in 2019, I had gone through the process with multiple patients, but this was the first one who had gotten to the point where she was going to take the medication and had a date and everything, and so I was there with her. It was the most beautiful transition I've ever seen, and just really, is this a capsule?

30:30 - Chase (Host) How does it actually happen?

30:31 - Katie (Guest) Well, it's multiple medications that they take and actually I can't remember off the top of my head exactly what it is, but basically there's like digoxin that stops the heart, but basically it's a cocktail that you take these medications in sequence.

30:46 - Chase (Host) And they just kind of slowly drift off. Yeah, slow down.

30:51 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, so basically my patient who did this she took the medications and then, within like three to five minutes, got sleepy, and so then I just helped her down like rest in the bed, and then it can take anywhere from like 40 minutes, and she and her daughter, or myself and her daughter, sat with her and held vigil until she transitioned. But it was such a beautiful and sacred event. But I remember leaving her house and knowing that when I leave, that when I leave this lifetime I'm leaving alone, when I leave, that when I leave this lifetime I'm leaving alone, and that I couldn't point fingers to anyone else to say you know, like my husband in particular, because at this point we're having these conversations about me wanting like maybe not being aligned with radiation oncology and him just being like this makes zero sense Like he just could not wrap his head around it and he had said maybe there's something wrong with you because you have everything someone else could want You're treating cancer, you're good at your job, you make a ton of money, you've got a beautiful lifestyle, you've got a wonderful family and colleagues. Maybe, if you're not happy, maybe something's wrong with you, maybe you're never going to be happy with whatever you have, and actually I really don't. I think he was just scared, you know, and so I.

32:24 But I internalized that for a little while and was like, ok, well, maybe something's wrong with me.

32:28 But when I assisted this patient, I remember I came home and I said to him I said when we leave, we leave alone and I cannot live my life according to what anyone else says, because when I leave here, I'm going to leave alone, you're not coming with me, nobody's coming with me.

32:48 That I can point to you and say, oh well, he wanted me to stay in the job or whatever, and that I was going to be accountable to myself. And the knowing that I had about that was not like there was some fire and brimstone, that I'm going to be judged, but it was like that I'm accountable to how I live this life and I'm only given one life and if I'm not living authentically with who I am, I'm going to regret facing myself at the end of my life and saying I didn't have the courage to do that, so that had happened in 2019. So when the shared death experience happened and then it was clear that I saw this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing, I was like I have to have the courage to, you know, let it all go, because I'm going to regret it at the end of my life, and I knew that. So my past professional experience kind of prepared me to, you know, take that leap of faith and and just release what wasn't working, even though I had no idea what the answers were.

33:52 - Chase (Host) I want to go back to what we were talking about in this your shared death experience and my original question of near death experience versus out of body experience. Have you ever had a patient, or have you ever I don't know read something about an out of body experience being the same thing as a near death experience? Are they the same thing? To have a near death experience, you have to have an out-of-body experience. Vice versa. How would you kind of differentiate those two?

34:20 - Katie (Guest) I don't know.

34:20 - Chase (Host) No.

34:21 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, because I'm not an ex. What do?

34:22 - Chase (Host) you think about it? What do you think about out-of-body experiences?

34:26 - Katie (Guest) Well, I definitely think that people have out-of-body experiences without having near-death experiences, so I definitely know that that is, that's something that they don't have to be connected. But then people who have near-death experiences often have outer body experience as part of the experience, right. So I, you know, I think that when we're in this body, our awareness, it's almost like when we're awake. We're really asleep In that there's a veil of consciousness that is overlaying what we perceive and that we don't see the full reality, right, and there are ways that people can thin that veil to have experiences like visions or outer body that is kind of penetrating through that veil, right.

35:39 And so children actually often will describe out-of-body experiences because the veil is thinner. When we're younger, you know we're born into a body and we know who we are and we slowly forget, right, and so that veil becomes more solid, right, and so that veil becomes more solid. And when we're young, it's it's in some children who are encouraged to explore that are more likely to report those events than someone who their parents are like that's crazy, that's not happening Whatever. It kind of shuts down faster. But so you see it in young children and then you also see it at the end of life, and I think it's just like the two ends yes and.

36:22 I think it's related to that veil, you know, and the veil is gone when we're sleeping too. So, you know, people talk about dream time. Dream time maybe even more real. You might be getting more accurate information in dream time than you do in your waking time, because the veil is is not, as it's, thinner during dream time as well. So, um, I don't know why that is, I don't know exactly what is happening that limits our consciousness, but it's definitely, and I have more experience on the end, you know. But clearly things start to open and and people who are dying will have out of body experiences, not a near death experience necessarily, but they'll see their relatives, like who are living somewhere else, and they can clearly see it. And I think you know these are just things that happen as the veil thins.

37:14 - Chase (Host) These are just things that happen as the veil thins, do you think?

37:23 - Katie (Guest) consciousness is in place to keep us from the actual reality. Well, I think the level of consciousness is dense here on this planet, both by our lifestyle and also things that are put in place to keep us from seeing the full reality. And I don't know if that's just planned, that's just the design, or there are, you know, entities at work to limit that. But I see it as more like consciousness is infinite, but our perception of conscious and level of consciousness is limited, based on the way that we've been conditioned into this environment.

38:06 - Chase (Host) Is it possible for us to even comprehend, or even hope to understand, fully understand consciousness?

38:14 - Katie (Guest) if it is that level of infinite humans, we can't really grasp that concept of infinite right yeah, but there are masters who've lived and who have achieved that understanding and and I would say it's less of an understanding and more of a knowing and experience and I know you have experience, you, you know working with ketamine and this is, like you know, part of what plant medicine does is is allows people access to higher levels of consciousness, but our reality in like regular living is just, you know, keeping us at this, where the information we can receive is is at a lower level.

39:00 - Chase (Host) Could the argument be made that you know because you work in oncology, end of life, you know be there's a people? These are people who have diseases that are terminal, right, Not?

39:09 - Katie (Guest) all, but yeah, I mean so in my traditional practice it was 60% was curative. So in my traditional practice it was 60% was curative people who had cancer that's potentially curative and then 40% was palliative.

39:22 - Chase (Host) Oncology just refers to cancer. Yeah, oncology just means yeah.

39:26 - Katie (Guest) So I take care of people with cancer, and so I would say my practice is mixed. So I have people who have earlier stage disease and then people who have been told that they have stage four cancer. That's incurable, but I would argue that that's also a limitation of our consciousness and that, truly you, it's never too late to heal. Anita marjani is a perfect example of that. She died with a body full of lymphoma and her kidneys had failed, and yet she came back from that and that healed herself during that.

39:54 - Chase (Host) Yeah, thatof-body experience.

39:58 - Katie (Guest) Yeah. So she had the near-death experience and when she came back she knew that she wasn't just this body and that connection with her divine essence and being basically allowed her to heal herself. And so I think that even stage four, even people who are right up against what we would say is like the end, there's the potential actually to heal yourself from that.

40:20 - Chase (Host) And I want to get there. But where I was going with that original thought was could the argument be made or is there any evidence to suggest or show that it's cancer? It's cancer that is causing these wild physiological changes, that just manipulates our consciousness or understanding of consciousness and therefore triggers these type of experiences. So a little bit of devil's advocate, I guess.

40:45 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, well, I'd say most people who have cancer don't have these kinds of events. You know they don't. It's but the oh you're talking about, like the P, when I, at the end of life people seeing these, you know kind of the veil thinning. Is that what you're saying? Right, yeah, it's just something.

41:01 - Chase (Host) if the common denominator there is this high level of cancer. Could we, could we look at cancer and go oh, that's because. Why it's? You know it's manipulating cells, brain activity, all these things you know. Is there more like a physiological devil's advocate response here?

41:17 - Katie (Guest) Yeah Well, I think the argument that I would make against that is that it's not unique to people who are dying of cancer. People who get close to transitioning, you know, for many reasons have these same kind of experiences and if you talk to someone who works in hospice they'll explain that right. And of course there are different illnesses. So you could say, okay, maybe it's the illness that's doing that, but near death experiences that people say the same thing and people can die of an accident, so that's not an illness. The events that are reported are quite consistent across all different events that led up to someone you know either dying or having a near-death experience. You know, when we start to think about the senses and we talk about perception of consciousness through a particular sense, we're confining that concept and I think that it's so much bigger that our physical senses actually may limit the perception of consciousness.

42:27 - Chase (Host) So consciousness is not a sense.

42:29 - Katie (Guest) It's not a sense. We perceive the world through our senses, but consciousness is infinite and beyond that, and actually a lot of the things that you perceive from higher levels of consciousness may not be perceived through the physical senses Like we're used to them, like you know. Example, in that shared death experience that I had, she was talking to me but I didn't hear it and I didn't see her although I saw her.

43:01 So, having had that experience, and then also since that happened, I realized that I can help people transition. So I've done that with patients and I connect with them, and all of the information that I receive is outside my traditional senses of my sight, ears, smelling, tasting. I just question the idea of like connecting consciousness to a specific sense, because I think that higher levels of consciousness transcends our five senses as we, as we think of them.

43:41 - Chase (Host) So then, what can we do with this information and understanding of? There are? There is consciousness and there are things that happen to our consciousness while alive, while transitioning, and with near death experiences and your shared death experiences? How are you taking this information and knowledge and translating it for people into something actionable? Yeah, absolutely. What's the point?

44:03 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, I love it, okay. So, yes, I'm like glad you asked this. So if you think about Anita Marjani as an example of someone who basically died of lymphoma, both like from the tumor burden in her body, and then also kidney failure, and then she came back and completely healed right Without the treatment, you know you expecting to have that result of just like tumors melting away and walking out of a hospital in two weeks. So that is a miraculous healing Right and that resulted from her connecting with her wholeness and her divine self. And so my question was can we reverse engineer this? My question was can we reverse engineer this? Can we help people access higher levels of consciousness, to heal short of dying Right? And so the work that I do really helps prep people to access that higher levels of consciousness. And in my practice, there's really six pillars that we focus on in conscious oncology, because there are things that we can do to prep ourselves and to get ourselves cleaned out to access higher level information. So the pillars are diet and supplementation like cleaning out your diet and getting the right supplements, the right inputs and nutrients for your body, so really nourishing the body with the correct nourishment and getting rid of the things that are not nourishing and detoxifying. So diet and supplementation water, so the water that we drink, but also the water that we hold, because we are 99.9% water by molecule, and water is the source of all life and as I've learned more about water, it's kind of the foundation of everything. But so diet and supplementation water, physical practices, which are really just connecting back with the way we were designed. So we're human beings living on planet earth and so we're designed to be in the sun, you know, see all the rays of the sun and and be out in the sunlight to connect with the earth. And so looking at practices that help you get back in tune with how you were designed.

46:21 And then emotional healing using the power of mind, and then spiritual healing. And when I talk about spiritual healing, I'm not talking about necessarily someone's beliefs and, like you know, god's going to heal me, or that kind of thing. It's more about what are you here for? Who are you at your core? Why were you born? Are you living the life that you were meant to live? Because you know that is part of what disconnects us with our higher selves is living out of alignment. So I basically work with people on balancing their body by getting the proper nourishment and detoxifying all the toxins which toxins can be food, it could be environmental, it could be emotional, it could be mental.

47:11 Doing all of that work to get people in alignment so that their body can do what it's designed to do, which is heal, and that I think we also block ourselves from our higher self through inflammation in the body, through emotional toxicity, holding on to baggage, not forgiving and, you know, living with these things that, like, keep us so contracted.

47:38 And so what I'm doing is helping people balance, helping them lighten their physical body so that they can allow the body to do what it wants to do naturally and this is what I think is so beautiful is that anyone can heal, but most people aren't able to achieve radical remission or spontaneous healing because they're too inflamed and they don't understand what are the inputs that are blocking me from doing that and I like to think about.

48:08 Like you know, if you cut your finger, you don't have to think about your finger healing, it's just going to heal on its own. But if you have diabetes, it's not going to heal because sugar in your blood is prohibiting that healing from occurring. Right, most of us can't heal serious illness because we have things going on in our bodies that are inhibiting the healing, just like a diabetic sugar is inhibiting the healing when they cut themselves. And so I'm looking at all those pieces and saying, okay, what is it that's in your past, what is it in the way that you're living that we can start to shift, to get you in alignment with who you are and your optimal? You know life, and what's beautiful is that healing, then, is the natural consequence of aligning with who you are.

49:03 - Chase (Host) Healing is the natural consequence of aligning who you really are. The natural consequence of aligning who you really are. Wow, what if I'm listening right now and I go? There's nothing I need to heal from. I don't have cancer, I don't have diabetes. I'm a healthy weight, a comfortable weight. I'm happy in my body. My labs are good.

49:30 - Katie (Guest) What would you say to them? Well, I would say that I think most of us are fooling ourselves that we're actually um. There aren't things that we could do to get healthy, and if you look at the statistics like now, one in two men will have cancer in their lifetime and one in three women. That is astronomical.

49:51 - Chase (Host) Look around listening, watching. Right now You're probably in that stat.

49:55 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, and I think that most people are surprised I mean, everyone is surprised when they come in my office or, like I didn't that, like I eat well and I do all the things. And the thing is is that our modern lifestyle is making us sick. Right, we are disconnected from each other, we're disconnected from nature and the way that we were designed. And I'm not saying that you have to, like, you know, go sleep out on the dirt and, you know, live your life outside of modern technology. But it's like if we're going to live in this modern world, we need to understand what that is doing to our bodies and what that is doing to our physical health and start to look at ways that we can control the technology and the modern lifestyle to get us those things that we need so that we can be healthy.

50:49 And I think that we've been sold a story that cancer and illness is about genetics and it runs in families. That's just not the case. Breast cancer was my specialty when I was practicing and only 5% to 10% of breast cancers are genetically related. 90% are just sporadic. So 90% of the time we're like I don't know, it's just bad luck. Well, it's not just bad luck, it's like let's look around and see. You know, all of these illnesses from cancer, diabetes, obesity, neurodegenerative disease are all exponentially rising with our modern lifestyle.

51:25 So let's look at what has changed. Know our diet. Our diet has changed the way that we're living, disconnected from nature, not following day night cycles. You know emotional toxicity. Just turn on the you know tv and see everything that's projected at us in terms of fear and that kind of thing.

51:46 So I think it's just becoming aware of you know what. You might be in danger because of the way that we're living today, in 2024. And so there are things that you can do that are really pretty simple and they're cheap. You know it's like go see the sun, go, you know, into the sunrise and sunset so that you're getting, you know, the red light from the sun and go out in the midday. But the things that we've been taught like I was taught that you know you should never go in the sun and you should wear sunscreen and you should wear sunglasses, and it's like all of this there's a lot of misinformation that is in the mainstream. You know medicine that is just incorrect, and so you know it takes a little bit of time to tease out, but starting to look at, okay, what are the things that we've been doing for, like you know, in modern, in recent history, and maybe we should stop doing those things and start, you know, looking at how our ancestors lived when we didn't have cancer.

52:46 - Chase (Host) How can we for you know, lack of a better term skip to the front of the line? Is there a way? Because what I'm hearing you talk about is, if we can get there, this really does help heal the body. It can provide a lot of healing or healing steps. So then, why wouldn't we just go directly there and work on that stuff first?

53:03 - Katie (Guest) Working on the consciousness first. Well, this is the thing is that I think we're too inflamed and that our bodies are full of toxicity that we can't perceive those things. It's blocking ourselves, and so that's why, you know, for me it's like we focus on the physical of like eating the right things, getting your timings right of your body for wake and sleep and rest, and eating and starting to decrease the inflammation in the body and through that process of cleaning yourself out physically, emotionally, mentally, and then aligning yourself spiritually is how you access that, and then aligning yourself spiritually is how you access that. And so I think this is actually part of what I'm seeing is that a lot of people are like well, I just want to like go to the consciousness, I just want to like go up there, but the truth is is that you're in a vessel.

54:04 - Chase (Host) The body's not prepared for that.

54:05 - Katie (Guest) The body needs to be prepared. And that is like what I'm really seeing in my practice is that if you prepare the body and if you prepare these other pieces, like looking at the emotional trauma and you know, helping kind of, I think, of emotional trauma is like a backpack. We're all carrying around a backpack and some people, a lot of us, have like boulders in that backpack or just like weighing us down, and if you can start to release some of that trauma, it'll lighten you. And if you get the body functioning, there's a lightning that happens that opens us to that higher level of consciousness and connecting our higher self or being with this vessel that we have. And so I think the two can't be separated and that's why you see masters do prolonged fasts and you know they're preparing their bodies to access higher levels of consciousness.

55:03 - Chase (Host) You mentioned diet and the right foods and supplementation a few times. Is there a diet for enhanced consciousness? What are the supplements to reach higher levels of consciousness? What does that look like?

55:16 - Katie (Guest) Well, I think that you know my like focus is cancer, and cancer is a metabolic condition. So the work of Otto Warburg, who's a Nobel Prize winning physician and biochemist, basically described that cancer, by definition, is dysfunctional mitochondria because or deficient, deficient or dysfunctional mitochondria because if you have functioning mitochondria, then our healthy cells use oxidative phosphorylation in the way that they generate atp, but cancer, by definition, uses fermentation, which basically can only use sugar. And so in my practice, we're really looking at lowering blood sugar, lowering carbohydrates, getting ketones circulating in the body. I don't go full ketosis, like telling people like just eat a ketogenic diet all the time, but finding a way to help them lower their blood sugar, raise their ketones, so that the ketones are circulating in the body and helping with the healing. And also, you know, when you are eating a low carbohydrate and higher fat diet, you think clearer, you know like. So I know that you know this because I just cheat us.

56:51 - Chase (Host) Use ketone IQ here, right, but you did exactly that.

56:55 - Katie (Guest) So that is, you know, part of it, and that's why fasting fasting basically puts someone into ketosis and a lot of people have elevated, or you know, higher levels of consciousness during a fast, and that's not an accident. So, um, you know higher levels of consciousness during a fast and that's not an accident. So, you know, in my practice, I'm not rigid and being like you have to eat this way, but looking at limiting carbohydrates, eliminating sugar completely, looking at, you know, making sure processed foods were eliminating that and and really you know, getting a clean diet and making sure also that the the energy of all of the food that you eat. So eating biodynamically farmed, you know, fruits and vegetables and food that any meat, that it's grass fed, humanely treated all of that, I think, is really important. So, thinking about whatever you're bringing into your body, that you're bringing in the energy that you want, right, and so from a dietary standpoint, it's mainly low carbohydrate, higher fat. Shooting for a GKI glucose to ketone index less than two is generally what I do.

58:12 - Chase (Host) Kind of getting towards the end here. Before I get to my last question. Who do you think needs to apply what we've talked about the most? Is it someone that is sick, or is it someone that? Or is it everyone else really?

58:26 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, well, it's interesting because when I started into this new work, I was like I want to get upstream, like I don't want to see half the population get cancer in their future, and if people understood this then we wouldn't have to have that Right. And so I would say everyone. But I know the people who are really ready to radically change their lives are the ones who are in crisis, and so for me, you know, I think that those people who have some sort of health challenge, you can use that to radically transform your life and create something so much better than what you dreamed was possible, and to use that opportunity. So crisis in Chinese is symbolized by two symbols. The first one is danger, which makes sense, but the second symbol is opportunity, and so really any crisis, there's opportunity.

59:28 If you think about this, when everything's kind of going okay, like I'm healthy, I don't really have any problems, why am I going to go radically change my life? Right. But when you have a crisis, and especially with cancer, this I would tell my patients even before I left. Western medicine is like now's the time. If you have a crisis, no one's going to question if you make big life changes. But when everything's going well, everyone's like what are you doing? You're like I mean, I'm an example of that Like why are you?

59:58 - Chase (Host) blowing up. Why would you abandon your career of 10, 12 years?

01:00:03 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, so my my husband left me because he thought this is crazy. Like you've got a perfect life, what are you doing? And it's like. So I do think that all of this is relevant for anyone who just wants to take their health to the next level and not get sick. But I'm also a realist and know that you may have to have that crack. You may need a crisis to really motivate you to make the changes necessary to live in a different way, because, I will say, it's not easy in the world that we live in to make those changes, and so you have to have a clear why and reason for what you're wanting to create. So I would say it's for everyone, and I realized that I, you know the people who are going through illness are the most ready.

01:00:55 - Chase (Host) One more question what are you currently doing that is exciting you the most in regards to what we've talked about? Are you currently, are you doing any studies? Are you working with anybody? You know, of course we'll say HIPAA compliant here Um, is there anything going on in your world professionally that just has you so excited about? Like this is kind of proving what I'm talking about beyond an experience, or is there some kind of breakthrough happening coming soon?

01:01:20 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, well, what's interesting for me is that my new practice is new, so I launched in October of 2023. So it's a very new practice. But I recently had a woman who she had breast cancer that had spread to her brain and she came to me at that point when her cancer had spread to her brain and we started doing this work. And you know, many of the people that I've seen are doing other treatments, like maybe they've had surgery and it's removed or whatever, and so it's hard to say, like ifurgery, which is a very focused type of radiation into that tumor, but when you have radiosurgery, the expectation is that the tumor doesn't go away. Basically, if you do an MRI in three months after the radiosurgery, the tumor will be slightly bigger because a little bit swollen, but maybe a little bit less intense, and then at six months it should be about the same size as it was when you first treated it. And then at a year, there's just, like you know, some scarring there, maybe some you know dead tissue, but basically never goes away completely and this is kind of what you expect to see. But anyway, so this particular client, she had the radio surgery and then we were working together doing the deep emotional work and we ended up doing a prolonged water fast for her and during the water fast I just saw it happening in front of my eyes where she was just opening and at 17 days, when she finished, she just was like unstoppable. She's like I never thought I could do this and this experience has just completely changed me. The cancer is gone. I'm telling you, I'm like it is like the cancer is like not an issue for me anymore. And she said and also I know now why I'm here and what I meant to do and that she was going to step into um mindset coaching, where she had been in a completely different business and it just like. It was like at the end of that fast, it was like who is this person? And like I could just feel her power, like she just like was so powerful.

01:03:44 And, um, when she went to go get her MRI after treatment, which was like three months after treatment, her neurosurgeon was like it's gone and she's like that's amazing, like it's supposed to be gone, right. And he's like, yeah, but it's gone, like that's not normal, like we don't see this and she didn't have the images so she couldn't tell. And she's not. You know she doesn't do this all the time. She couldn't tell. And she's not. You know she doesn't do this all the time. So when I finally got the scans, basically there is literally nothing in her brain. Her brain is completely clear. There's no remnants of anything. It just basically, on the report even says empty cavity where the tumor previously was. And what's remarkable about this is that number one, we don't expect to see that. We expect to see that. We expect to see something even years down the road.

01:04:32 But then the other piece is that necrosis or dead tissue you would absolutely see with giving that high dose of radiation in there. And she had no dead tissue, no necrosis, no nothing.

01:04:42 - Chase (Host) Can we cure cancer?

01:04:44 - Katie (Guest) Yes. So this is what I'm saying is like I knew it was possible. But now I'm seeing it with my clients and this is, you know, anita Marjani is an example but the thing is is that we don't have ways to systematically, you know, make that happen. But that's what I'm doing in my practice is helping people put the pieces in place so that you can do this and it is absolutely possible. And now that I'm seeing it, it's frankly exciting and I can see and I can sense when it's happening.

01:05:18 I have another client who I think it's already happened, but we just don't have the scan yet to show it. But it's like I can feel it when they have that shift and they just all of a sudden are so powerful in their being and they have this like conviction that they just know that they're not their body, that the healing has already happened, they know why they're here. And what's interesting is and this happened with that particular client with the breast cancer that had spread to the brain is that the other thing that comes spread to the brain, is that the other thing that comes, seems to come with it, is knowing why they're here. And Anita Marjani talks about this. She says remission is remembering your mission, like why you were born, and now that I'm seeing it in my practice, I realized those two are connected and that you see that when people connect with their higher self and heal, there's also this awareness of why are we here and what am I meant to do, which, for me, is the most rewarding, exciting thing that I've ever participated in.

01:06:23 - Chase (Host) That's miraculous and it kind of reminds me a little bit of familiar with Dr Zach Bush.

01:06:29 - Katie (Guest) Yes.

01:06:29 - Chase (Host) A lot of his work. Anybody curious about more about what you just talked about? I mean this guy, his research in cancer and what he had proven and healed people from to just get literally shut down from like patent blocks from big pharma is wildly familiar with all that. It's just literally finding ways to significantly reduce and I think even in his work what I saw was, you know, eliminating curing cancer, um, but then you go to big pharma to like get the clinical studies and it gets stopped because you know well there's no money in that.

01:07:04 - Katie (Guest) Yeah.

01:07:05 - Chase (Host) My last question for everybody is how can we package all of this up? How can we wrap all this information up um up to help us move forward, to live a life ever forward? What does that mean to you?

01:07:14 - Katie (Guest) Yeah, well, I think that ever forward for me means letting go of our past and really just living in the present. And what's true now? Because I think that we get caught up in our story of who we've lived as, and if there's one piece of advice that I would have for people is let go of the story of who you think you are and be present with moving forward with what feels right and feels aligned, you know, and just keep stepping into that and letting go more and more of what is not aligned.

01:07:56 - Chase (Host) Letting go, letting go, letting go it. Um, it helps a lot, I promise you. So well, dr Katie, this was a pleasure. Um, where can my audience go to learn more about you, your work, your clinic, your practice, all the above.

01:08:09 - Katie (Guest) Sure. So my website is katiedemmingcom, and I also have a podcast called Born to Heal.

01:08:15 - Chase (Host) Great name, great name. I love it. Well, thank you, this was a real treat, thank you.

01:08:20 - Katie (Guest) It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

01:08:30 - Chase (Host) For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com