EFR 816: Why Everyone Needs Health Insurance, How to Pick the Best Insurance Plan for Any Budget, and Ways to Maximize Healthcare Benefits Regardless of Employment Status with Dr. Darrell Gray

00:00 - Chase (Host)

The following is an Operation Podcast production. 

00:03 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

And this is coming from someone who practiced as a physician. 

00:05

If you're not having that meaningful connection, don't give up on medicine. There's still so many people who don't understand the importance of having health insurance, having a primary care provider who knows you, and so, to try to not only prevent illness but to keep you well, and also, if you run into a crisis or catastrophe, you know exactly who you can call. But even before getting there, how do you navigate the benefit space, whether you're employed or unemployed, whether you're high income or low income, and so there's certainly a need for greater literacy, but what's critically important is that there's an option for everyone, and everyone can have an affordable option too, for your listeners who are getting the labs, who are doing the exercise, who have the Fitbit, who have the Apple watch and they're doing all the right things to try to stay fit, yes, yes. And and also have insurance and have a healthcare provider who knows you and can work with you and walk with you. To even optimize even further, you have access to so many different things, including sometimes even low to no cost medication. 

01:09

I'm Dr Daryl Gray II, and this is Ever Forward Radio. 

01:14 - Chase (Host)

Dr. Fifty Shades of Gray in the house. How many times do you get that? 

01:18 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I'm sure I'm the first time ever, not as often as I used to. Let's just put it that way. 

01:23 - Chase (Host)

Dr Daryl Gray, it's so good to have you here. Thanks for coming in today, man, thank you for having me. This is going to be a very exciting for me personally and professionally. I feel like I'm kind of blending a lot of worlds here, but also just such an important for lack of a better term campaign public health campaign, wrapped up in a podcast. 

01:44

Because this does take me back to a lot of my work as a health coach, as a wellness director, working one-on-one with people, and even I'm thinking back to so many internships I had in undergrad and grad school in employee wellness and little public health campaigns, so flabbergasted of the struggles that I had seven plus years ago, kind of getting started and literally trying to lead people to water of hey, here are these benefits that you're paying for, hey, here's what you have access to in your community, or here are just other incentives that you can utilize to maximize your health, optimize your health or, you know, maybe treat chronic illness, disease, injury, all that. And it was such a struggle then. And so for me now to kind of sit down with you to unpack this conversation, because it has to be had, has to. Have we not learned our lesson? 

02:36 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I'll tell you it's. I wish I could clone that former and current you, because we need certainly more ambassadors who are willing to go out there and share this information because, unfortunately, to your question, there's still so much progress to be made. I mean, you know, whether I am looking within my family or thinking about former patients I had in practice, or going out into the community and talking with folks, there's still so many people who don't understand the importance of you know having health insurance, having a primary care provider who knows you, and so, to try to not only prevent illness but to keep you well, and also, if you run into a crisis or catastrophe, you know exactly who you can call. But even before getting there, how do you navigate the benefit space? How do you, whether you're employed or unemployed, whether you're high income or low income, what's the importance of that? And so there certainly is a need for greater literacy around these things. 

03:40 - Chase (Host)

Yes, walk us through a little bit of your past training experience to kind of help the audience member know that this is someone that walks the talk. 

03:47 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Oh, thanks for that. I'll tell you I had the benefit of really having a spark lit in me by my father. It's funny, before this show you talked about your father and I get to share a little bit about mine. My dad practiced internal medicine in inner-city Baltimore and as a young boy I got to go with him into the office, into the hospital and to see how he was able to really help people live more empowered lives, well lives, how he helped to manage illness but also helped to keep people well, and the rapport he built with people, whether they were well sick, whether they were in a political atmosphere, whether they were well sick, whether they were in a political atmosphere, whether they were served in clergy or served in grocery stores. I mean he treated people from all walks of life. And to see the impact that he was able to have really lit a fire in me and so I kind of pursued a traditional course to get into a medical career. 

04:40

So college and then med school. I did med school in DC at Howard University College of Medicine after leaving Morehouse College and then did an internal medicine residency at Duke, subsequently went to St Louis where I went to Washington University to do a gastroenterology fellowship, so a gut health doc. At the end of that training I realized to go back to one of your opening comments around public health and the importance of public health campaigns I realized that I had a kind of deficiency that I wanted to fill to better connect with patients and people in communities but also to enact change, not just on a one-on-one patient encounter, but something that could impact communities and populations more on a national level. And so I pursued a fellowship it's called the Commonwealth Fellowship in Minority Health Policy at Harvard and after that I went to Ohio State. I was there for about seven years practicing in medicine. 

05:34

So I practiced, I saw patients in clinic, I did procedures like colonoscopies and upper endoscopies. I did NIH-funded research where I was in the community and helping to co-design studies with community members that would improve health, and we did. Whether it was cardiovascular disease or things about colon cancer, we did quite a bit. And so on that journey again I recognized the importance of population health, public health, and that led me into the health insurance industry, initially as chief health equity officer for Elevance Health, and now I get to serve in my home state as president and CEO of WellPoint Maryland, which is an Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield affiliate and ensuring that our 300 plus thousand members who are part of WellPoint Medicaid in Maryland can achieve their optimal level of health possible and so getting people connected to the benefits and the programs. Like you mentioned earlier, it's purpose-driven work, it's mission-driven work and it's personal. 

06:32 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, getting people connected to programs, to incentives, to insurance. Yes, I used to have there's this phrase right, you know you can't. You can only lead a horse to water, right? And in my experience I realized it's. Not only do I have to lead them to water, I had to convince them how thirsty they are because you're right in front of the water source. 

06:55

Hey, I'm your guy, I'm your girl. Here's the program, here's the offer, here's the free, here's the low cost, here's the. Just just fill out this form and so many of your needs are going to be made better. But even then, it was the struggle. And it takes me back to anybody else having an internship in the space. I'm sure can relate. Yeah, I did one internship in a hospital here in virginia or down in virginia, and I was literally in the hospital, going to people's offices in the stairwell handing out you out little incentives and flyers and things. And I'm in a hospital, I'm in the belly of the beast handing out. You don't even have to come to me, I'm going to you for free information and access to employee benefits and employee health care and employee insurance incentives. And even then it was just like it's like I had the plague or something. Yeah, what is it about? Access to information, even access to free information, resources that people still are hesitant to grasp, do you think? 

07:58 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

you know, I think there's multiple things at play. I think one is you know, you, you, you brought them to water. You're convincing them how thirsty they are, and then sometimes you just have to show them how to drink. 

08:10 - Chase (Host)

And I think you know he went further. 

08:13 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

It's. You know, navigating the benefit space can be very confusing, and so people even if they're well-meaning people such as yourself going and saying, hey, this is what you have access to, this is how you can tap into it. People, it's just a long history of hey, it's confusing. Yeah, I might have insurance, but what are my benefits? What do I have to pay for? What don't I have to pay for? Is this the best insurance plan for me, because I have so many options? So I think it can be confusing, and so I think that's one thing. 

08:42

I think the other thing is, particularly for those who are uninsured, they might be confused that, hey, yes, you're coming to talk to me, but I can't afford that. I'm not employed, so I don't believe I can afford it, not knowing that there are options for people who are unemployed or have no to low income. And I think there's another camp that say you know I'm healthy. Hey, regardless, I might have insurance, I might have employer sponsored insurance, I might not have any insurance. I'm healthy. Look, I don't want to contribute to sick care. 

09:11 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, I don't Good. 

09:11 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Exactly, I'm good. Hey look, I'm eating my broccoli. I'm running miles a day. 

09:16 - Chase (Host)

I'm in the stairwell bro. 

09:25 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I'm taking the, my Fitbit. You know I got my Apple watch, but not knowing that it's so critically important to be plugged in. Because the last thing, like I said, you don't want to be in crisis trying to figure things out. You want to have things figured out before you head into crisis and that's where understanding your benefits, having a healthcare provider who knows you and can get you connected to the different levels of care or the benefits or to the kind of coordination of care that you need, is so critically important. I mean, you know what's been that, what was the main dialogue through the pandemic and even as we have come out of the pandemic, particularly around mental health. I mean, it can be so incredibly difficult to find a mental health provider if you're not already plugged into a system and care providers who know and understand your needs. So that's just one example. 

10:13 - Chase (Host)

So before we even get into programs, benefits, insurance, does it start with provider. Do we need to have access to understand the importance that a primary care provider, yeah, can actually have for us? Because I think that's where a lot of people have the most aversion. Is you had a bad experience with a provider? I can't afford it. It's too far access. For whatever reason, it's not gonna take my coverage. I don't have any coverage, yeah, how can we navigate those barriers to entry for a provider? 

10:40 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

yeah, I think that's critically important and that's also where health insurance can play a huge role. I'll give you an example. So we have, through Anthem, blue Cross, blue Shield, have what's called myhealthbenefitfindercom, and that's how I mean just easy, you can type it on your phone, you can go to your computer, laptop, type that in. You're able to add some information hey, I'm employed, hey, I'm not employed, not employed, hey, I make a certain income, etc. And find out what kind of insurance you would qualify for. For some they may qualify for Medicaid as an example, where they have low to no cost for being able to see a provider or have these other benefits and access to programs. 

11:20 - Chase (Host)

That's just one example which is already pretty mind-blowing because yeah and this might be kind of my own ignorance or misunderstanding is that you think you hear Medicare, medicaid. You kind of think one thing, you think like you have to be in dire straits or a certain you know economic status or you know some of those things definitely are true. But I'm hearing that's not necessarily a blanket case. 

11:41 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Exactly so. As an example yes, traditionally, when people think of Medicaid, they think of low income. They think of moms and children and those living with disabilities. When people think of Medicare, they think of 65 years of age or older or things like end-stage renal disease Right, yeah, I'm not retired, I can't get Medicare. 

11:58 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, exactly. 

11:59 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

But what's critically important is that there's an option for everyone. Everyone has an option for insurance and everyone can have an affordable option too, and so that's what I highly recommend that website easy to find around, what, what are the affordable options for you and what you might qualify for? And I think that's going back to your question. I think that's one critical first step, because even through that insurer that you get connected with, you can get connected to the doctor that you want. Very true and to your point. 

12:29

I think bad experiences can be really triggering for people or may be very off-putting for people re-accessing health care when they need it. But I always encourage people find the doctor that is kind of sensitive to you, that listens to you, that believes you, and it's okay to have a second or a third opinion and this is coming from someone who practiced as a physician. I would encourage people to do the same. I do the same in my family. If you're not having that meaningful connection, don't give up on medicine. Don't give up on seeing a physician or a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant. Find another one, but stay connected. 

13:08 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, remind us please the difference between Medicare and Medicaid. 

13:10 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

So Medicaid is a both federally and state funded program. It's like a public health insurance program. It's largely catered towards those who are low income. So based on their income they may qualify In Maryland. We also have access for those who are particularly moms. New moms who are undocumented can also get access in Maryland to Medicaid. So moms, children, those living with disabilities and low income. 

13:38 - Chase (Host)

Dr. So is Medicare more for those on disability, dr it can be Particularly. 

13:43 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I gave an example of end-stage renal disease but typically people age into Medicare, so they're 65 plus Okay okay, my audience knows my story, I'll share it with you. 

13:53 - Chase (Host)

My career ending injuries in the military and I was in such a weird gray area of technically still on active duty, but I was pulled from duty and I was in a medical hold unit for about a year and a half and I was basically just in hold to go through surgeries, rehabilitation and transition out back into civilian life. 

14:14

And due to the nature of that status and my physical condition and disability at the time, I actually was able to get Medicaid to supplement outside care. Yes, I was able to use Medicaid, I believe, total honesty. I believe I also got a. I think it was like a few hundred bucks. It was like a small monthly allowance plus coverage for outside care and what I used that for was really different rehabilitation and therapy needs that I was not getting from the doctor or my active duty assigned doctor, orthopedic surgeon, rehabilitation specialist was like, hey, I really think you could benefit from this stuff. We don't offer it, you can't get it on active duty. So I was able to kind of use that to go off off base to get other treatments that, honestly, I really do feel at the time gave me a lot of need a lot of therapy, a lot of rehabilitation. 

15:12

Yeah, but definitely opened me up to things that I still use today. Yeah, you know, like acupressure, acupuncture, massage therapy, a lot of different things. 

15:19 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, and, and a couple of things you said that really I think the audience needs to kind of double back on and rewind is you were connected to an orthopedic surgeon who then gave you the recommendation about hey, consider these other options. But you were connected and one of the things that helped you to get connected is that you had access through your insurance to these different things. Right, yeah, and through that, what you also said was hey, I got a stipend, I got these other benefits that helped me to recover and helped me to get back on my feet. You know, literally and figuratively, literally, yeah, so yeah. 

15:55 - Chase (Host)

Twice. Yeah yeah, hey guys, quick break from the conversation today with Dr Gray to remind you about how important it is to, if nothing else, just become more aware to the potential benefits coming your way. But certainly if seeking health insurance is in your budget, in your lifestyle, in your plan, there is a plan for you, there is a plan for any budget, and if you head to myhealthbenefitfindercom, they're going to walk you through for free how to find the right coverage at the right price for you, no matter what you have going on in your life. Thank you so much for tuning in and ever forward. 

16:28

A lot of times we have benefits right, whether it's through our provider or we get insurance another way, and we think that's it. Yeah, and that was me. I was like I'm an active duty soldier, I have this form of coverage, that's it. But that's not necessarily true. So can you walk us through maybe some misconceptions people have about I have this coverage, that's all that I can have access to. But is it true that by having access to or having coverage in one capacity opens you up to other coverage as well? 

16:59 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah. So I mean, you gave a really great example that I'll leverage here, in that you had insurance through the military your time, but you also needed supplemental insurance, right. And so people, depending on their needs, their situation, they may need a supplemental insurance. Most times for those, I'll give the example of where I am, through our members at WellPoint in Maryland they might not need supplemental insurance If they're on Medicaid and they have access to all the programs and all the benefits that they need to successfully traverse and achieve the health outcomes that they want. They may not need any extra programs, but there is the option, as you think, of employer-sponsored coverages and things like that. There are supplemental options that people can explore for their benefits. But the point that you made I want to go back to and really emphasize is that it's so important that people understand what are the benefits. 

17:54

Don't stop at just getting the insurance card in the mail. Yes, I got my card, I can access it when I need it, you know. Take the next step and say, okay, well, let's dig deeper. Okay, what, what? What does actually involve? Do I have, if I'm a mom, do I have, access to lactation services? If I am um, if I have high blood pressure and I know I need to be taking a high blood pressure medicines. What's? What are the pharmacy costs associated with this Can I get? Can I get free meds, depending on what meds are taking and what pharmacies align with it? Most people don't think about free. 

18:25

Yeah yeah, you have access to so many different things, including sometimes even low to no cost medication, depending on what the formulary is or what you need from your pharmacy. So that's why it's so critically important that people don't just stop at the card or you know, you can now download it on your phone. 

18:43

So don't just stop at that, that, but explore what the benefits are. Matter of fact, if you, if you go to let's say you go to a health care provider, and now you'll get something in the mail from your sure that says EOB explanation of benefits yeah, and so it's you know, take the time when you get something in the mail, even if you don't owe anything, based on what your clinical visit is to review that. Look at that paper, flip it over, just see what your benefits include, cause that's so important. 

19:09 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, when we are ready to go shopping for insurance or just you know coverage, to kind of just open up our awareness, should we be thinking symptoms first? Should we be thinking based on my age, or should we be kind of looking at benefits first? What is? The best approach when initially looking for coverage. 

19:29 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, I think one start with hey, what is affordable? Because the last thing we want is someone to not have access or not have insurance because they feel like it's not affordable. You know the benefits that are offered through this plan. Does that align with what I need? Maybe I have poor vision and I know I'm going to need glasses every so often. Are those included in the benefits? Or maybe I don't have access to transportation, but this insurer provides a value-added benefit that includes maybe an Uber voucher just as an example. 

20:05

So yes that's the thing. That's the thing. So, you know, looking through what are the benefits after I see, oh, this plan can align with something that I can afford, or maybe it's no cost at all. And then what are the benefits? And are those things that I will leverage? Is it best for me? And then also thinking, okay, well, I have this insurance, I have these benefits. Do they have providers that are in my network? Because convenience is incredibly important. You know, I think most people would like to go to a healthcare provider that's close to them, whether it's close to work or close to home, as opposed to driving hours to get to a healthcare provider or a specialist. So looking and seeing, making sure that your provider is in the network is also incredibly important. So those are some steps I would recommend. 

20:51 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, that's incredible. I had no idea that that was the thing, but I had no idea that you know it will. It's great to hear that the health care system, because I think for a lot of different reasons, people have a lot of different hesitations to getting into the health care system or coming back to it, poor experience. 

21:08

You know what they hear or see on social media or mass media, and you know very rightfully so, but I'm hearing that there's been a real transformation in really reducing, if not eliminating, damn near all or most common barriers to entry for people to finally get the care that they need yes, and and two absolutely yes to that full stop period but. 

21:32 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I would say also to to your point around stigma around the health care system. There has been one and it's been well earned um one of um an environment where people may not feel heard or people may not trust certain things based on bad experiences. 

21:46 - Chase (Host)

Or things getting made worse because of Exactly. 

21:49 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

And you know stigma or stereotype around health care that it's only a repair shop, but it's also preventive care, and so that's so incredibly important. Yes, you may be eating broccoli, you may be running your miles a day, but we also want to prevent something that could happen in the future that running or eating broccoli may not prevent, and so it's so important to get it plugged in with, and have a relationship with, a healthcare provider who listens to you, who understands you, one you can trust and one that you can call whether it's a crisis or not, just trying to maintain the wellness that you have. 

22:24 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, knowing where to go when and why is the core of any readiness plan. Yes, yes. 

22:33

And I think a lot of people. If you take a real pause right now, an honest inventory of you, probably have that in your life in other areas right, like when shit hits the fan at work, I've got my mentor, I've got my boss, my colleague, when, you know, life gets crazy, I go to my mom or I go to my best friend, you know. Think about you, your actual health, like, do you have that same kind of plan? Yeah, I think most people don't. But I know what? Why do you have all the other plans in other areas of your life? Do you not take your health as serious? 

23:03 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

right, right. And what's? What's funny? And you said this you know there can be an over reliance on social media. They can be over reliance on dr Google you know, to provide all the answers to the symptoms that you're having. 

23:17

but that can be a you can go to a doctor who insert your symptoms and be the most ominous diagnosis you can think of. But why not go to someone who is trained and spent their career trying to understand how they can prevent this or how they can treat this or how they can better understand and guide you to that? And there may be some people who say, well, they only want to prescribe me medicine or they only want to get me in for surgery, and again, that's based on experience and some of that is well-earned right. But that's not all people, and so I highly encourage people to again find that person that listens to you, that understands, that's willing to kind of go the extra mile and tailoring the care to you personalized care. 

24:01 - Chase (Host)

I think I'm gonna make an assumption here Everyone listening, watching, please let me know otherwise. But you know, I really feel like my audience. You know, barring any acute injury or illness aside, I really feel like my audience and myself included, we pride ourselves and we strive for daily optimization. We strive for, you know, continuous learning so that we can, you know, do body scans, use wearables. We can, you know, have that quantitative and qualitative feedback in units of measure, even, you know, as far as getting labs or one-off things here and there. So really make the case for us here. Why should someone who is again air quote here healthy, yeah, um, why should we really even consider investing in or spending our time before we even spend our dollars, spend our time into considering insurance? 

24:50 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

yeah, um, I'll. I'll share a couple of personal examples. Actually, so this is years ago. I, healthy, had insurance, thankfully, and you'll understand why when I tell you in a minute. 

25:04 - Speaker 3 (Host)

This is you personally. This is me. This is me personally. 

25:07 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

This is in medical school training. I had an injury. I was moving, lifting some heavy furniture, and it felt something weird in my back. You know, it felt something pop. I didn't think anything of it because I could still walk, I was still doing whatever I needed to do that day, but the pain increased. It increased over time. One day it kind of faded, so I just ignored it. I would take, you know, tylenol, ibuprofen, when I got it every now and then it kind of residency training would come and go, come and go, fellowship training, come and go, come and go, fellowship training, come and go. Fast forward, just a couple of more years and it became debilitating. I'm literally seeing patients in clinic hunched over because of my back. 

25:42 - Chase (Host)

This is years later. 

25:43 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

This is years later I'm doing same injury, but just kind of progressed over time. You know, there was one day I was doing procedures colonoscopy literally had to hunch over doing a colonoscopy the entire day. I got home and literally could not walk in the house. I had to crawl and it turned out I just had a severely herniated lumbar disc and ultimately had to have surgery. Now, if I had not had insurance, that would have broken my family and I To pay for that orthopedic spine surgery you're probably talking about hundreds of thousands. 

26:21

I mean, yes, at a minimum, yeah, and, and fortunately that was not the case now. Again, I was the person I'm exercising, I'm eating right, thankfully, and that's largely because of my wife, but you, you know, catastrophe happened right and this was something that helped me. I also say, you know, I was one even as a person who learned medicine. It was practicing medicine, going through training in medicine, where you know, and I'm exercising, doing the things and I found I had elevated blood pressure. No way, and I had and this is someone who you know again, exercise, I'm thin, you know all the things that you might, someone might look on the outside and say, you know, he looks pretty healthy. No, I had elevated blood pressure. 

27:07 - Chase (Host)

Let me see those labs. 

27:08 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, and so that's where also insurance helped me personally because again I got a doctor who listened to me hey, what can I do, doc? Because I don't necessarily want to be on medicine. Let's see what I can do, whether it's increasing exercise, making tweaks to the diet first before getting in medicine. Ultimately had to be on a little bit of medicine, was able to get off of it for a period of time, and so that's, I mean, that's important, and I think, yes, continue to do those things For your listeners who are getting the labs, who are doing the exercise, who have the Fitbit, who have the Apple Watch and they're doing all the right things to try to stay fit, yes, yes, and also have insurance and have a health care provider who knows you and can work with you and walk with you. 

27:52 - Chase (Host)

To even optimize even further, I'm a small business owner you and walk with you to even optimize even further. I'm a small business owner and back in LA do the podcast and I've got some podcast studios and getting some new ones open. I had to go through insurance renter's insurance, business insurance and they started going through explanation of benefits. Oh so how much coverage do you want for injury, loss of wages? I said can you explain that? More. What do you mean? 

28:17

Oh yeah, if you know, if you're on the job site in the building and you know you trip and fall or something happens and you can't work, what is your daily loss of wages potential? And that immediately made me go back to opening up the most recent studio. Second to last recent studio man, I blew out my back bending over to paint a wall. I deadlift almost 500 pounds. You asked me to pick up a paint roller. I was out for like two weeks. Oh my gosh, I couldn't move. I was on the floor and in that moment I flashbacked in this explanation benefits. But I go oh, I need to make sure I have this covered and just like other insurance, can you talk to us more about that? I think this is another unique layer to insurance that people might not think about. What happens when, maybe, you have an injury or freak illness takes you out of your job, but you're losing money. You're not able to earn money? 

29:09

Are there situations like that that can help people yeah. 

29:11 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Well, I'll tell you, there are many people for whom any medical problem can be an instant pathway to large amounts of medical debt, particularly for those who are uninsured. I mean, you have one catastrophe and now you're prioritizing whether I have to pay the hospital or the health care provider back or pay the mortgage or pay the light bill. And there's far too many people across the nation who are in that situation and largely because they didn't have insurance or they had insurance or just not enough to help with that situation. But it is so important that people think about well, what kind of insurance do I need? What situations do I want to be covered for? What do I have access through, maybe through the employer? Or if I'm unemployed not not having employment what do I have access to? And do I need something supplemental for situations that could be catastrophic? 

30:08 - Chase (Host)

what about using this as a negotiation ship and a job? Yeah, maybe we're comfortable with the salary. Or it comes down to hey, we can give you a little bit more money, but we're gonna lose some health benefits. Yeah, walk us through, maybe, a scenario where kind of leveraging negotiation with your employer for health care coverage yeah is actually to your advantage. 

30:25 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Well, I'll give you an example. So if someone is part-time, they may not qualify automatically for the full-time benefits which is true for most people, right? 

30:36 - Chase (Host)

Unless you're full-time, you don't get benefits. 

30:38 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Exactly, or particularly if someone is a small business owner and you come in as an employee and, based on how many employees they have, they might not have to provide you, they might not be obligated to provide you insurance benefits or health benefits. And so you, coming in as an employee, you may want to negotiate. Now you're the person that is employing, in a position to employ. You may say, okay, well, I may need to bring down the saddle a little bit to be able to offer you those things, but that's where negotiation can take place. Hey, I know I'm going to need health benefits. Maybe the person is coming in fit but, you know, concerned about something happening or wanting to get plugged in and making sure that they do have a health care provider accessing primary care, specialty care, et cetera. Or maybe someone is coming in with a chronic condition and knowing that they're going to need care and those kind of things. Or maybe it's not just for them, but you know, sometimes when you sign up for insurance, you can also sign your family up for insurance. 

31:30 - Chase (Host)

Right, right yeah. 

31:31 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

So understanding that and, yes, that can be a point of negotiation walking in with the employer. 

31:37 - Chase (Host)

Now can I just, at any time that I choose, learn what's open to me and just sign up for coverage, sign up for insurance or other open seasons? How does this work Good? 

31:47 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

question. It also depends on what type of insurance you need. There's always an annual enrollment period. What's called open enrollment? An annual enrollment period, what's called open enrollment? As we think about employer-sponsored insurance, we think about Medicare, commercially sponsored insurance, that open enrollment is usually in the fall. 

32:06 - Speaker 3 (Host)

So there's an annual so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, so there's an annual, a rolling basis for Medicaid. 

32:29 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Now, in the same way, though, they also need to renew. So just because you signed up one year, you'll need to renew. So just because you signed up one year, you'll need to renew the next year. And you know, I'll say, if you'll allow me, as we were going through the pandemic, particularly the last, you know, three years or so, the kind of what was usually a routine reevaluation of people's eligibility was kind of relaxed amidst the height of the pandemic, and so people were allowed to stay on the Medicaid insurance without having their eligibility reevaluated. 

33:00

That was important because some people they may have gotten a new job, that they now earned more income and didn't qualify for Medicaid. But what we learned when we came through the period of what's called redeterminations, which kind of started last May and just really ended in Maryland and just ended April 30th, was they were reevaluating eligibility so someone might have moved and they lost coverage. Someone might have gotten a higher earning job, job and they lost coverage, but many people they just lost coverage because they did not renew, they did not take the time to renew their coverage, to fill out the paperwork, uh, to do that, and so I say that to say it. To go back to your question, it depends on where people fall as far as what they have access to, what they can afford, what opportunities they have and what they need from a health insurance standpoint. 

33:46 - Chase (Host)

That brings up a good point about how oftentimes and I think this is where a lot of people get stuck yeah, but honestly, they weigh their options and choose to air quote here stay stuck because you know, heard you say they moved maybe so they got a better apartment, moved to a better part of town, they got a higher paying job. So they're doing things to level up their life, yes, dare I even say level up their health, because with that comes a certain level of affluency that you can now take better care of yourself. 

34:18 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, networks too social networks and other types of networks that influence your health. 

34:22 - Chase (Host)

But because of that, we're losing access to care. Or because of that, we're losing maybe the bandwidth to go back to making sure that our access to care is taken care of. So how do we best weigh those options? How you know as a provider, you know, and you know someone who helps people get the coverage they need. Is there a litmus test? How do we really weigh which option is best for me in terms of my healthcare? 

34:50 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

in many people's cases, their families- yeah, that's such a critically important point because, let's be real, you know people have to prioritize and so many times I would see people in the clinic and you know I'd ask questions to better understand what led to this diagnosis, what led to you coming in with this disease and really trying to uncover what were the decisions that were made, what were the life, what are the lifestyle choices, what are the circumstances people would find themselves and that would influence them getting this disease or having a certain lifestyle? And I think what I was able to uncover from that is you know, people make decisions based on what they can prioritize. So for some they, you know their priority may be look, I'm working three jobs just to keep the lights on. Try to get my kids in school. I haven't had time to go to a doctor during the week because I'm working all the time, and so you know, for them I would have to say look, I'm glad you're here now. 

35:54

No, we also have weekend hours, you know. So don't wait for a catastrophe like this. Try to find ensure you're plugged in so that you can see after hours care or see someone on the weekend. Those options are available for you. So I think it's taking the time to understand what you have access to regardless of the competing priorities of your life. It's funny, I'll tell you, just like when I was sharing the story earlier about me and having elevated blood pressure and I was talking to my wife about different decisions or what I could do or what I couldn't do, what I didn't feel I could do because I was prioritizing other things, she said pay now or pay later. Pay now or pay later. 

36:34

Yeah, and it's true. You know your community will appreciate. Yes, they're trying to optimize, whether it's through nutrition, right, trying to optimize nutrition, trying to optimize exercise, and all for good reason, because you want to, you know, put yourself in a position to lead a long and healthy life. But part of also having insurance, part of getting plugged into a health care provider, is so that's further optimization. And, yes, some insurance may require you to pay out of pocket. 

37:04

You may have a copay when you go see a health care provider and when I would have people in the office and they'd be kind of discussing those things with me, because it's very real and I would definitely empathize with that. I also wanted to drive home. Drive home to them is look, I would be happiest if you don't have to come see me again because you're not experiencing this problem or this symptom again. Yes, I would love to see you, love to see you outside, at the, in the Trader Joe's or in the street or in the community event, but I don't necessarily want to have to see you in the hospital or in my office for this reason, and so it's kind of like pay now or pay later. Try to make these lifestyle changes now, so you won't be paying for it in a different way later in the hospital. 

37:48 - Chase (Host)

I remember when I was running my health clinic literally just down the road here and so I worked in concierge medicine. So people are paying a membership to come see me and have certain access to me, you know, as a health coach, and certain programs and access to care, but they also were getting a benefit that, my understanding, was open to a lot of people even just with regular primary care providers, and that was HSA and FSA reimbursement. 

38:15

So I literally had an exercise prescription pad on my desk. After we would run a personal training session, we would do a body composition analysis, a VO2 max test, and I would write down. You know what we did check the box, sign my name and they would submit that to their insurance provider. 

38:33

At that time, I believe it was up to provider, that's at that time, I believe was up to two hundred seventy five dollars per session and they were allotted one session per quarter so that we get that reimbursement back into the HSA FSA. Yeah, my point here I'm trying to make is I think this is kind of good news for the people making argument of oh, I'm already taking care of myself, I'm doing all these things, a lot of what you're doing in already taking care of yourself. You, I'm doing all these things, a lot of what you're doing in already taking care of yourself. You can get reimbursed or even get credits too. And that was seven, eight years ago. What is going on now in the world of insurance for HSA FSA? Or are we getting gym memberships? Are we getting wellness? Are we getting all these other things that might have prevented us from getting an insurance before? 

39:12 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Oh man, that's absolutely right. I'm so glad you brought that up because and that's why I keep was telling people, you know, go to my health benefit findercom because you can see what you may have access to that you didn't even know or read. If you do have insurance, look into what you have access to because, to your point, you can get reimbursed depending on what insurance you have, whether it's a gym membership, whether it's fresh fruits and veggies box sent to your home. I mean yes, like. 

39:38

So. I'll give you an example. So, within, through insurance, through insurance, so well, point Maryland, our Maryland Medicaid program, we have value-added benefits, whether it's a gas card, gym membership. We've done healthy fruits and veggies to people's homes. We have healthy rewards where, where members can get rewards just for going to their health care provider. So there's, there's, so. So we're so rich in benefits that people just and sometimes we have to coach them hey look, you know you have access to this, right, you go to that, you get, you can get this reward. Or we have we give baby supplies for new moms as an example. So these are value added benefits that people have access to that some may not even know that that's an option for them. 

40:28 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, that's so good to hear. 

40:29 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah. 

40:29 - Chase (Host)

All right, let's, let's put our guy hats on, all right. 

40:33 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Let's do it. 

40:35 - Chase (Host)

What's up with guys not wanting to get health care? What's up with guys not wanting to go to the doctor? If it's such a struggle for us as a guy just to admit we have a problem or that you know this injury is really something. Yeah, you looked into. If it's that difficult for us just to take that step, is it realistic for us to think that we're actually gonna look into our explanation benefits or get health insurance? 

40:58 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

man. I love that you said that, because I'll tell you the men that I would see in the clinic, it was largely because their wives or their spouses or their partners made them come in to get evaluated. And and I think part of it is machismo we think, oh, we're macho, we can, we can take care of whatever ailment comes our way. We can beat it, just whether our thinking or with physical activity, we can beat it um or um. We're like, hey, I, I got many other things to do that I can be doing with my time than going to see the doctor, and that's just. Many of us were raised that way or many of us were just conditioned to think that way. And I know you have listeners who are women as well. So thank you ladies, thank you partners who are out there, spouses, Any partner of anyone. 

41:44

Nudge your partner, Nudge them have them to come in and see a healthcare provider, and, I think, all those partners who have been doing that, because and I'll say this very seriously it sounds joking, but but you save lives by doing that. I can't tell you. I told you, I trained as gastroenterologist, so one of the main procedures that I would do are things like colonoscopy. Colonoscopy is a procedure where someone gets comfortably asleep and they would use a long, flexible camera to look throughout the entire large intestine, or what's called the colon. And if we're doing it for screening, we're doing it to look for things like little polyps. They can look like little pencil erasers almost, or like little mushrooms, but that could lead to cancer. 

42:28 - Chase (Host)

And so if we go in there we see them, we remove them immediately, which correct me if I'm wrong is not colon cancer the number one killer of men man. 

42:31 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

It's, it's close to it, it's number two, yep, it's. It's one of the most common cancer causes, of cancer related deaths. I hear United States, I think. 

42:39 - Chase (Host)

Peter Atiyah made this very sketchy men will all die either from colon cancer or with colon cancer. But to not be the person dying from it starts with prevention. 

42:52 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

It is largely preventable. So preventable, so preventable. And so a lot of times I would, you know, I'd be in the pre-procedure bay talking with the person about, hey, this is what you're going to undergo, these are potential risks, et cetera. And you know, many would say I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my wife or my partner or my spouse. But then when I you know procedures done, I go back in there. I'm in there with the wife talking with the patient and the spouse or the partner about what I found, and I find a pileup where I found even potentially, what looked like an early stage cancer, or you know, for for some it was what appeared to be a late stage cancer. Regardless, people are kind of thankful that they were able to get the information, to then take some action, step that potentially saved their life. 

43:35 - Chase (Host)

Then you know what to do. Yeah, yeah exactly and it's not just you know, I mean us two guys talking about it and your professional experience and pulled up some pretty wild stats to reinforce this. 

43:46

Talking about men in insurance, and as men tend to be uninsured at a higher rate than women, stats show 14% of men being uninsured compared to 10% of women, just in the US alone. And then the younger we are, it's even kind of worse. Young men between the age of 18 and 24 are the most likely to take the risk of going without health coverage because I mean, let's be honest, that's when I think you're invincible. 

44:08 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, we're the strongest. We got the most testosterone. Exactly. 

44:12 - Chase (Host)

You know, transitioning to the next job or college or whatever. Yeah, also, men are significantly less likely than women to see a doctor or report symptoms to a health care provider. Only 60% of men go to the doctor for a yearly routine checkup. 

44:32 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

And 40% won't go until something is seriously wrong. You served in the military, so this may very much resonate with you. In my training at Duke for internal medicine residency, we also trained right across the street from the main medical center at Veterans Hospital, and I absolutely love veterans. 

44:46

They would come in with the kind of they would hold on to their symptoms for months and even years, something that may have been a little bump. They won't come in when it's a bump or it's just a little painful. No, they come in when it's spread across the entire arm or the leg is almost coming off or toes have fallen off. You know, um, and so I say that to, to come back to your original point around, you know, sometimes men will just ignore things. We, we think we can beat it, it'll go away, or I can manage with this pain, I can manage with with this toe falling off if it's not killing me, then exactly I'm not gonna to die, exactly. 

45:24

Yeah, and that shouldn't be the case. That shouldn't be the case, as, as they, as the many wonderful veterans that I and a lot of friends and and fellow physicians, nurse practitioners, pas, uh would see is, we're not the enemy, we, we want to help, we want to partner with you in your health journey and, um yeah, make you better. 

45:47 - Chase (Host)

So earlier you were kind of talking um, about, about. I forget if we hit record or not on this, so if my audience is like nobody didn't talk about that. 

45:51

I apologize but you know, I think, especially after getting on the other side of the pandemic, now we're aware of a lot of we're aware of for the first time or the first time in a long time of mental health needs. Oh man, and I'm curious, you know what? What can insurance provide what? What benefits are out there for people now in the mental health capacity that maybe weren't there before, because I think that might have been a very unique barrier to entry for a lot of people? 

46:17 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

yeah, behavioral health, and I'll also add something that also kind of ramped up during the pandemic substance use disorder yes, those two things kind of being tied up during the pandemic substance use disorder yes, those two things kind of being tied together. 

46:29

You know there are so many programs through health insurers for those, whether you're facing anxiety, whether you're facing PTSD, whether you're facing addiction, you know, trying to overcome a substance use disorder, there's access to mental health providers, there's access to addiction treatment, there's access to social support communities through insurers, and so that's just kind of an added benefit of being plugged in. You know, grief can hit us all, whether it's the loss of a family member or loss of a job, and that can manifest in different ways. For some it may become more chronic and be manifested as depression. For others it may become chronic and manifest as general anxiety disorder. And so having a community not just talking about health care providers, not just talking about mental health providers, but having a social support community to kind of surround you through these times, is critically important. And that's where insurance can be also very beneficial. 

47:33 - Chase (Host)

What about kind of more in my world and I definitely have a lot of listeners that are in the same boat You're self-employed or maybe you're in between jobs kind of thing. That's where I know a lot of coverage lacks for people. Or you know, I can think back to my first year, two years even, of being an entrepreneur man. I was not again very grateful. I was in a different bucket. 

47:55

I had my health care covered through the va and try care, but, um, that's not the case for a lot of people. What's out there for self-employed? 

48:03 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

yeah, so there's. There's so many options that at that time, depending depending on what year it was, may not have even been available to you. That's available now. So there are certain subsidies that people have access to who may be self-employed to have a level of income that might disqualify them from. Medicaid but not necessarily make another commercial plan affordable for them. So there's what's called the exchange, or this is a benefit that came from the Affordable Care Act, where people can get subsidies that would help to cover a lot of their insurance costs. 

48:36 - Chase (Host)

Really yes, so the subsidy is basically free money. 

48:40 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Free money to go towards payment for insurance, and so again. That's why look, folks. 

48:46 - Chase (Host)

if you haven't written down this website yet, myhealthbenefitfindercom, go in there and just see what We'll have it linked for you guys on the show next time. Yeah, I got you. I got you yeah. 

48:55 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Exactly, but yes, there are subsidies for many people that they may not realize that their income qualifies them for. You don't necessarily have to be in poverty to have access to insurance that is low to no cost. 

49:09 - Chase (Host)

Okay, that's such a great point. Walk us through, because I can see how some people that might be. Another barrier to entry is, there are people who need it more than me. Even though I technically qualify for, in God's honest truth I could use, I feel, some kind of way about taking any free care, free coverage, free money, because there are people out there that really, in my opinion, need it more than me what I would say, was by you accessing what's available to you. 

49:37 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

You are not taking it away from someone else, so they those people who need it still have access to it. You are also just taking advantage of what's available to you and what you need. Particularly, you mentioned those who may be self-employed, and so you have a fixed income you need to work within, as you're launching a business that you can't exceed, and so you're trying to think through what are those expenses that I can afford? What are those luxuries? But this is something where you may have access to a subsidy that would make this extremely affordable for you. 

50:11 - Chase (Host)

So then, what happens if we get into the coverage world? We're insured, boom, great Congratulations, but you still don't have the best experience with the hospital system or a provider. What can you do to not fall out of the system again? 

50:28 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Oh yeah, I think and that happens more often than not where I would say people have one bad experience, and it may not even be with a healthcare provider. Maybe it was they walked into the hospital and somebody said something they didn't like, or it could have been another patient. 

50:42 - Chase (Host)

It could have been another patient right. It could have been an employee. 

50:45 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Or or they called to schedule an appointment and the person had an attitude, or they got a robocall. I didn't like getting the extra message. You know, all these things happening can influence people's opinion, people's experience and whether or not they access it in the future. What I would say is give it another chance or, if you didn't like that experience, find another experience, and I'll speak from my experience within WellPoint and Anthem, blue Cross, blue Shield. They will help you find another hospital, another doctor. If you wanted to call somebody, you can have a talk with a representative to navigate to that doctor or a health care provider. If you want to use live chat, there's an option to just get on and have a live chat. If you just want to go on at your own leisure online, we have provider finder where you can look and see okay, this provider speaks Spanish, or this provider lives a mile from me. 

51:39 - Chase (Host)

I saw that or this provider yeah. I went down the rabbit hole myself. Yeah, I was impressed at the calls to action. Rabbit hole myself. Yeah, I was impressed at the calls to action. Dare I even say like preventive measures to get you off, because, like it's immediately just thinking about, like oh, I'm gonna have this problem or this aversion. 

51:54 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

It's just like no, we got you covered, we got you covered and I think it's just taking that initial step. Let me take the initial step of trying to learn. Let me take the initial step of just looking into what I have access to. 

52:05 - Chase (Host)

Let me take the initial step to talk to somebody or use a live chat or check a website and get connected, you know and to that point, like I said, I have coverage, I have TRICARE and I can go to the Veterans Affairs, the Veterans Medical System. But even having those two, I'm hearing that I could be open to things that could enhance my wellbeing subsidies or extra care. 

52:31

And I say that because particularly kind of speaking to other veterans out there. Look, I feel your pain. It's hard to say out loud like to complain about free healthcare. I'm very grateful for it. But at sometimes case in point, I'm having a lot of new issues, new old issues from my past injury. 

52:53

Every orthopedic surgeon I had, every orthopedist I had for years, was like we need to redo the left one. And I'm at a point now for the last year I've been having, on again, off again, very extreme pain, again very extreme pain. Now to the point I can feel the same impingement happening in my femur, coming up to where it's like taking time out of my day, cutting workouts short, and so I finally took action, thanks to my wife see she's like you've been talking about complaining for a year like we literally like she has to help me walk sometimes for like a year. 

53:24

and, uh, I called the va help me walk sometimes for like a year. And I called the VA and like, okay, cool, we can see you. And it was like about seven weeks seven weeks to get an appointment with a new primary care provider to assess me, to then refer me to orthopedics. I will be lucky if I can see an orthopedist for an issue that has been bothering me for a year. A lot of that's on me. I'll be lucky if I can see an orthopedist in the next three months. And so now I'm like I don't want to, nor can I wait that long, and so I need to know what is available to me. I think this is a great case in point for other veterans out there that may be, struggling with. 

53:59

yeah, you have free healthcare, but it's going to be weeks, months, where anybody else who already has coverage you might be able to get something that can help you here and now. 

54:08 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yes, Maybe Let me give you an example and I'll pull, you know. 

54:11

I know the listeners weren't privy to this, but we were talking about just in having casual conversation about telehealth. 

54:18

And you know some insurers depending on the insurance that you get, you can have access to zero cost telehealth. 

54:25

So let's say, for example, yeah, you're exactly right, whether it's because of the healthcare workforce shortage in certain areas and not only geographic areas, but also in certain specialties whether it be just because, you know, primary care providers are overwhelmed, they have large caseloads of people they're seeing for preventive care, for chronic conditions, et cetera, and so the wait times can just get longer and longer sometimes. 

54:47

And so you may call with an issue that is acute or that you feel is acute and want to be seen immediately for and probably rightfully so but they may not just have a slot for you to fit in. And so having the ability to say, okay, great, I do have this primary care provider. It's going to be a while before I get in, but I have an interim solution I have a healthcare provider I can access virtually on my phone, on my tablet, on my laptop, that can hear me, that can help make some recommendations. That may be a bridge to my provider, but also they can also send the records to that primary care provider. So these are things that people have access to through their insurer records. 

55:27 - Chase (Host)

That's such a an important word when we're looking at health care. Um, I think that's something that's probably working against people is because you don't have the necessary and right type of documentation. Yeah, to maybe get the coverage that you need later on for an injury or something like that, but I mean that's so incredibly powerful to hear that you can have access to telehealth to at least document this stuff. So you have proof from a medical professional stating this is what's going on. 

55:56 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Exactly. It's not just you typing in notes on your iPhone. 

56:01 - Chase (Host)

Right, I got a screenshot of me like ah, you got documentation. 

56:05 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

Yeah, you have documentation in a record that can be sent to your healthcare provider that, hey, this is what my physical exam showed. And sometimes, even though it's telehealth, there are exam findings that we can see right by looking on telehealth, whether it's dermatologic or skin-based or otherwise, but also what was the history that was elicited from me as a physician talking to you as patient. That's going to be important for your doctor to know because between seeing that provider via telehealth and seeing your regular doctor, things may change and so it's important to have that documentation. 

56:39 - Chase (Host)

And it's going to be in the language that that provider knows Exactly. It's going to be in the language of the insurance needs in order to give you appropriate coverage. 

56:46 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

And, and to your point, you said hey, it's going to be seven weeks or more for me to see that orthopedist. That's how a health provider may may see something and say no, it's more urgent. They can then call or contact that provider and say I understand, you said seven weeks, but this is why this person needs to get in earlier. Yeah, you get a advocacy. Yep, yep. 

57:07 - Chase (Host)

Yep Well. Dr Gray, this has been incredible. As we kind of begin to wind down now, I want to ask you is there anything that we haven't covered or haven't talked about that you think is still very important for everyone to know about? Just education, just learning what might be available to them in the health care insurance capacity? 

57:26 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I'd say look, it is Men's Health Month. There is no better month, men, for you to get plugged in, ensuring that you have your ducks and oars for health insurance, that you're connected to at least a primary care provider who knows you, with whom you can have a relationship. Ladies, I'm talking to you as well. Help to get the men in your life plugged in and connected as they need to be. Again, it's Men's Health Month. You know, men, we talked about colon cancer. There's also prostate cancer, there's also heart disease. So many things that we are more likely to die from than women, and earlier than women. 

58:06 - Chase (Host)

Unnecessarily. Unnecessarily Things that are preventable to die from than women, and earlier than than women, unnecessarily unnecessarily things that are preventable. 

58:10 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

But one vehicle to help people to lead healthier lives is getting connected and having access through insurance, and so, if people do nothing else from from listening to what you and I have been talking to, at least go to my health benefit finder comm to learn more. 

58:23 - Chase (Host)

Yeah, absolutely and again, all this Dr Gray's information and myhealthbenefitfindercom is gonna be all down in the show notes for you guys, and it's been so great to sit here with you and also to partner with you guys on this episode to bring I mean, I cannot think of a more perfect blending of worlds for me to kind of bring this, this past life of daily health care, yeah, and health promotion, into what I'm doing now, and so it's been a gift really to kind of use this platform and to bring this information to my audience in such a unique way. Incredible, incredible. Thank you for having me. My last question yes, let's bring it home, the name of the show. This, no doubt, is going to help my audience. It's already helping me. I know what I need to look up to move us, help us move forward in our life and our health, to keep living a life ever forward. 

59:14 - Dr. Gray (Guest)

I say Ever forward, those two words. What do they mean to you? Annual improvement, ever forward means to me walking in purpose and for me, I believe my purpose is to architect systems and places and platforms where people can optimize their health so that they can walk in the calling and purpose and maximizing that purpose that they have on their life. 

59:41 - Chase (Host)

Um, that's ever forward and I love that answer. I always say there's never a right or wrong answer but they all land so uniquely and different. So, uh, thank you thank you um. All right, everybody. That's a wrap for this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in um again, myhealthbenefitfinder.com. I'm gonna have that linked for you in the video description box in the show notes. Just do yourself a favor, check it out. Spend minutes. I spent literally 30 seconds and was already so far into the website. 

01:00:09

It's so easy to use and it just what I love most about it it was. It prompts reminders of things like oh yeah, I should have been looking into this a while ago, or oh, I didn't think about that. I never would have if it wasn't prompted. So it's just a great tool and it's free. Go check it out, get connected, take care of yourself and if not for you, do it for future. You do it for your family or loved ones. Um, find any other reason other than yourself. If you can, all right. If it's not you to move you forward, then do it for someone else.