EFR 814: Simple, Accessible, and Sustainable Daily Habits to Achieve Higher Wellness, How to Stop Making Excuses For Yourself and the Importance of Male Friendships with Ben Smith

00:00 - Chase (Host) The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Ben (Guest) The thing I'm most committed to is simple, accessible and sustainable means of achieving higher wellness. It's all the parts together. It's not about any one modality. It's about how all the things can work synergistically and allow you the best opportunity to live your best life. But if I want to stand the best chance of having the best mental and emotional experience, then I better prioritize sleep, physical movement and connection to the people that I care most about but, like I think for so long especially especially men been separate from their feelings.

00:29 I enjoy the way that I experienced the world better when I am more in touch with how I'm feeling on a day-to-day basis. You look at my training. It's like if I go in and I don't feel great, well, I don't do the thing, but when I feel good, I can send it and so like to the men who are listening, it's on you. But like that is the greatest gift because through your own growth and your own curiosity and you taking the next right, manageable step, you build this momentum, you build confidence in yourself and then you build the momentum to continue making progress. But it's like you're far closer to the thing you want. There are no failures, there are just quitters. Hey, I'm Ben Smith. I'm an integrative wellness and performance coach, and this is Ever Forward Radio.

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03:11 Welcome back everybody. This is ever forward radio. I am your host, chase tuning, certified health coach, wellness enthusiast and army veteran. And that last part matters today because I am rejoined by Ben Smith. He actually now is making a three-peat appearance on the show. He is also a former Army guy. He joined me first back in episode 198, where we kind of did a rapid-fire Q&A all about our military experience, training, motivation and so much more. Also in episode 468, where we really carved out a conversation around prioritizing, how to prioritize and how to maintain that prioritization of not just physical strength and physical well-being but mental as well, and we kind of picked back up from that conversation. Ben, join me back in studio here today.

04:03 So if you want to check out the video, it's always available for you on the website, everfordradiocom. I'll have it linked for you in the show notes, as well as everything that Ben and I talk about his social media, etc. You can also find us on YouTube just search Everford Radio. But in today's episode we're talking about his approach optimization through simple, accessible and sustainable daily habits to achieve higher wellness, how to stop making excuses for yourself and, as we continue through June 2024, national Men's Health Awareness Month, we kind of weave in our guys' perspective and we also really talk about the importance of male friendships for a lot of different reasons.

04:42 So overall, here this conversation is going to help you understand how small, consistent actions build self-confidence and, of course, the importance of addressing those negative self-perceptions, that negative self-talk and other little personal hacks that he has uses and recommends. But I mean the world to me if you would share this episode out with one person, one friend, maybe one other guy in your life that you think this could benefit. Seriously, sharing Everford Radio out to a friend, a co-worker, maybe tagging us on social media, just even just one other person learning how to live a life. Everford is what my mission is all about. I know Ben would appreciate it as well, so for that I say thank you. Okay, without further ado, let's jump into today's episode, the three P, with my man personal friend ben smith.

05:42 - Ben (Guest) Don't cut that out, leave that in I feel like a philip seymour hoffman in uh was it along came poly, yeah, or likeolly yeah, or like any Ron or not. Ron, ron Burgundy, ron Jeremy's a seven star. We're not going to talk about him.

05:50 - Chase (Host) I don't have anyone in person. They run, jeremy, that's subliminal.

05:53 - Ben (Guest) That's subliminal from. That's like a Freudian slip from your last guest the sexual health yeah.

06:00 - Chase (Host) Jackson uh Jackson, your influence is working, you don't even know the guys, now you do, now you do my dude. What up? 3p back on the show, crazy man. I think it's like every two years now. Yeah, welcome back. Welcome to the new studio man.

06:16 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, this spot's great. What do you think? It's really good. The energy's nice in here. Yeah, you did a good job.

06:21 - Chase (Host) It's a good thing you're seated, because you're wearing camo pants and no one will be able to see your lower half.

06:25 - Ben (Guest) anyway, I'm just a floating torso.

06:27 - Chase (Host) Well, ben Smith, back on Everford Radio. Man, I'm stoked to have you here. Thanks, dude. If you guys don't know, ben is a real friend of mine, not that anybody else isn't a real friend. Ben and I have known each other for Almost six years. Five, five, six years, five, six years. Yeah, kind of one of our original relationships. We got started when we both moved to.

06:46 - Ben (Guest) LA. Yeah, should I tell the story, or what's the deal?

06:48 - Chase (Host) Yeah, give a little backstory.

06:51 - Ben (Guest) So I had just left the military, I had moved to Los Angeles trying to find work and I was on a work from home day. But I was downtown in Los Angeles working in this like lobby of a hotel because it just felt right and you were posting Instagram stories about office hours for like vets or active duty service members who needed just like guidance or anything, and you didn't know this at the time. But I was going through this massive identity crisis, this mental health crisis that ultimately got pretty intense and, uh, I reached out and I don't think anything happened from the call, Like we just we had the call and then we want to cause.

07:25 - Chase (Host) I found out you were in LA. We ended up meeting at the same hotel lobby. Yeah, yeah.

07:30 - Ben (Guest) And uh, cause that's where I would do some work, and I think you had worked there also.

07:33 - Chase (Host) Was it the freehand downtown? Yeah, yeah.

07:35 - Ben (Guest) And uh, cause that's where I worked downtown.

07:48 - Chase (Host) And, uh, you were like just like, let's meet up for a coffee. And then so we met up, and now, six years later, we're here doing our third podcast, just growing out man, and we spend time together outside of this.

07:53 - Ben (Guest) We do fitness, we do brunch, we do hang out, we do lots of stuff, yeah and um, I become friends with may and you guys are like a part of my life, which is really special, so thank you well enough about me, you can tell me more off?

08:03 - Chase (Host) air but it's great to have you back on man, and the reason why I wanted to invite you back on is because, as we're going live now June, national Men's Health Awareness Month and I know that this is, I mean, you're a man, you care about you care about your health and you also really help promote a lot of forms and modalities of health physical, mental, emotional, spiritual in your work, in your content, and I really I appreciate and I really look to your approach to health for a lot of like influence and uh, reminders in my own Cause. I feel like we kind of were on similar paths and so I really feel like how you approach health, especially men's health, could really help a lot of guys this month.

08:46 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I appreciate it. The content's interesting because most of my work has been in person. Yeah, like the last 16 years, I've been a fitness guy, you know, strength and conditioning coach, personal trainer, gym owner, coached every demographic of athlete or person, and now, with this transition more into, like, the digital space, my ability to impact is so much greater and it's so it's so cool. Doing stuff like this and then being able to contribute on social media has just been a really incredible thing for me. Um, it's really interesting.

09:15 We were talking before this about how to like tailor the content. You know, making a transition from just fitness into the mental and emotional health space has been really fun for me. Um, it's a thing that I care deeply about. I talked briefly about my own identity and mental health crisis, but the thing I'm most committed to is simple, accessible and sustainable means of achieving higher wellness. So it has to be simple. It has to be so simple that you wouldn't. You know, there's no good reason not to participate. It has to be accessible so that you can, like you know, implement it into your life and then, ultimately, it has to be sustainable so you can continue practicing, and so that's my mission. I just want people to realize that it's like not the easiest thing in the world but, God, is it simple.

09:57 A deep breath Like fuck, that's all.

10:00 - Chase (Host) It is man, that's like even just saying the word simple yeah, it is man. That's like even just saying the word simple yeah, I think, introduces a level of aha-ness and awareness and just reminder of how maybe far we have gotten from simplicity and what we're trying to do and how we're trying to achieve it.

10:19 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, well, I think people are like excited by novelty, interested in like the shiny thing or the clickbaity thing, or like as a fitness guy, on the internet it's the most um, absurd stuff that gets the most clicks and likes and views, whatever Huberman is talking about these days, yeah, and there's.

10:35 I mean, there's a lot of value there. Like bringing bringing science in a simple way to lay people is like a pretty incredible thing. But I think really there's like this opportunity to like try stuff for yourself. Like you could train the way that I train, you can practice mindfulness the way that I practice mindfulness, you could sleep the way that I sleep, and your experience would be different from mine because we're different people, and so I think that, like all of the information that's out there is really powerful, but it's an opportunity for you to like take the data or take the information, employ it in your life, apply it to your specific experience and then see what's valuable. Yeah, discard the stuff that's not and then continue driving in the direction of like healing or wellness or whatever it is.

11:20 - Chase (Host) I want the audience to know too. I've been in the health and fitness space as a professional for like 50, 12, 15 years. Yeah, someone who has implemented into is just normal life for probably close to two decades now. Ben, his workout programming is the only program I have ever run longer than like three days. I the only programming I've ever stuck with and you were strong as shit, dude. It was so good. It was like it sucked, but he had me doing like 15 minutes of lunges at the end. Yeah, I oddly loved it at the end. Um, but it was so simple, so impactful and it made sense.

11:59 - Ben (Guest) And I gotta say it's the only thing I've ever stuck with. Yeah, well, I was happy to have you playing along for a bit. Um, yeah, I think it's. This is interesting.

12:12 This is like a weird Ben therapy moment, but it's like the physical component of complete mind body wellness is like the thing that I feel most, uh, comfortable delivering like coaching fitness. That's the thing I do or that's the thing I've done. Yeah, and so I feel really great doing that. But, like I said, I'm on the threshold of like a different thing. Yeah, and so like, while I do still coach fitness and I'm like so excited about doing that, I'm most excited about coaching in a different way. Like I'm a breathwork practitioner, I do mindfulness, like retreats, and my favorite thing ever is cold exposure, and so, like, I'm really excited about bringing those modalities in, with the like let's train our body piece and show how, like it's all the parts together, it's not about any one modality, it's about how all the things can work synergistically and like allow you the best opportunity to live your best life. And uh, I've coined it like a life worth living. But like, my goal is to get you to a place where you experience a life worth living.

13:04 - Chase (Host) So, um, or life ever forward right, like for sure.

13:10 - Ben (Guest) I should have said that. No, that comes at the end. That comes to the end, and I've been thinking about I know you're going to ask me the question what does it mean to you? Well, two other times I said something that I can't remember, but I've got about 1000 ways that I would like to live a life ever forward, and I think it starts again to say simple. It starts with the most simple, and so we can just jump right into this.

13:29 But I know men's health in general is a major issue at the moment, but men's mental health specifically.

13:37 There's a million ways to address a million different things, but it's probably the thing that's right in front of you that we need to address first.

13:44 And so, like my biggest problem with wellness at the moment is like you go on the internet and you Google like how do I fix X, how do I solve Y, a problem that means so much to you? I work with a lot of young women too but like a problem that means so much to you and you're inundated with like thousands of things that you need to do right now and most of them are probably not that cheap, they're probably not that accessible, they probably take a lot of time, effort, energy, you know, and focus to accomplish. It's like I was supposed to do 30 things already today and it's 11 AM, and so there's this moment of like overwhelm and then like freeze that a lot of people experience, and my goal is to just be like look, there's probably like one one, maybe two things we could address or implement right now, like move your body intentionally, eat foods that serve you and the life you'd like to live, get a little extra sleep, take a couple more steps a day. Water do you remember water?

14:37 we should drink some, like we should do nothing but the best hydration right, but like but like no cost, right, minimal thought, like things that we already know and you talked about a reminder at the very beginning, like my goal is just to be like hey, remember that stuff that you learned like 10 years ago, why aren't we doing it?

14:59 - Chase (Host) and I'll give you credit to like a real, really relevant case in point recently. Yeah, so I'm gonna beat a dead horse here. But here we are, we're in the new studio. I'm so stoked shout out operation podcast gonna be shooting everford radio here. We love it, thank you. And I've been in here with some, some help my wife and uh, but mostly me, yeah for like five, six weeks, yeah, and I'm sure you can imagine I'm getting stressed out like crazy and just nothing goes to plan more money, more time, taking away from other things and priorities, taken away from my downtime, taking away from my time with my wife and I was in here yesterday and about to kind of have an episode and I a bunch of things ran through my head.

15:41 You know we got some great supplements in here, some great nootropics and some CBD ord or, you know, food and snacks and different drinks and yeah I looked around and I just go, just take a breath, and I literally sat in that chair and just had a moment, but like a very mindful, intentional moment, and, yeah, there are a lot of great tools and things that I could have reached for and I will yeah but in that, in that moment, it was just keep it, keep it simple, yeah, and the way that I was able to just like, okay, get back to work.

16:13 - Ben (Guest) You're an army guy, you know about like step actions. Yeah, so it's like if.

16:17 X then Y, if Y then Z, right, like you know, I've had a lot of experience in this. You know, like going through my own stuff and then working with people. Now it's like the more often you can build systems, that like, if you experience something and you're aware of it, I'm about to have an episode where I am overwhelmed. Okay, overwhelmed leads to what? What's step number one for me? It's a deep breath. I get a glass of cold water. I note how cold it is. I feel like going down the back of my throat. I go outside. That's my step action and it's like I get layers of regulation through all of those things. A deep breath wow, I'm in my body. I note how I feel the cold water. Wow, it's cold. That's interesting.

16:54 It tastes a certain way and I pull myself out of my head and into my feeling body. Um, I heard something really interesting a couple days ago. But like these, if you want to like approach it from a different perspective, like maybe it's not so like woo woo to think that like, oh, my goal, the goal in regulation, is just to be more in control of my state, and it's like if I change my state from a place of overwhelm to one of like more calm regulation presence, whatever it is, then I have an opportunity to like tell myself a different story. If I'm not overwhelmed, then like have an opportunity to like tell myself a different story. I'm not overwhelmed, then like, the world isn't awful, Like things are actually pretty great, right, and then from there I can implement a strategy to move forward yeah, story or state story strategy, yeah. And then I can take active steps.

17:40 And I think, for men specifically a lot of you know my mental health issues and a lot of the guys that I work with we want to be doing something, we want to be forward, center of mass, we want to be dry, you want to be building the studio, you want to be doing stuff, and often it's like, okay, there's too many things to do or, in another case, there's not enough things to do, and I talk about momentum all the time and it's like when I'm not feeling motivated.

18:05 I know the first place to look is small tasks that can build momentum, because momentum is going to beat your motivation every single time, absolutely. And then, once you get going, it's harder to stop than it is to just continue. And so you know, that's me jumping all over the place and talking about a million things, but, like you, taking a deep breath in a moment of overwhelm is the perfect next right step to either continue regulating or get back into work you know and to kind of like drive home again the point of simplicity you know someone who this is your career, I would still argue is very much a big part of mine.

18:38 - Chase (Host) We have a lot of things that we've seen, we've tried, that we have access to, that we built upon, tried everything, and what did we come back to? Just take a breath.

18:47 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's funny. I uh I did this exercise during COVID and I know I've probably told you about this, but I I wanted to track the data of, like, how I was living my life. I've gone through, there's been many phases in my life where I've gotten super granular and interested in, like you know, how I'm eating, how I'm sleeping, how I'm eating, how I'm sleeping, how I'm showing up for myself and others.

19:06 Probably tracking everything, every calorie, every metric tracking micronutrients, macronutrients, grams of fiber, like I'm going insane. And often there's this pendulum swing where I get super in the weeds, yeah, and then I go way the opposite way, where I get like really lax and don't care about anything and then I find sustainability somewhere in the middle. During COVID I was bored and I was like, all right, I'm going to track my day. I want to know. I was going through a moment similar to my transition. You know, I think we all were trying to figure out what was next, like trying to find excitement in the work that I was doing, and I had this system where I would track objectively number of hours slept the night prior. And then I had a couple different metrics. I would track connection to myself, connection to others, intentional movement, life-giving, nutrition, and I didn't have this metric at the time, but I do now play, and so there were these five things and I would just check yes or no. Did I do them in some capacity?

20:00 - Chase (Host) not not measuring like the level to which just yes, no Did it happen, or did it not?

20:05 - Ben (Guest) And then at the end of each day I ranked each day on a color scale, so green was I feel like I have valuably contributed to my life and the life of someone else and I am excited for and prepared for tomorrow. I know that's a lot of metrics, that's a lot of things to have to get done, but like the feeling of how you made it for you. So I would be like, okay, I, I contributed to my life, chase, and I had a moment. His life is maybe better because of it. And then I am excited for, and I've prepared myself for, what comes tomorrow. Yellow was like I'm indifferent, today was whatever. Um. And then red was the inverse of green. It was like I have not valuably contributed to my life or the lives of another person and I'm not prepared for it. Nor am I excited for tomorrow.

20:50 I did this for 500 days in a row, 500 days Committed to 500. Whoa, I'm good at when I have like a, when I have a thing, that's the soldier in me, when I have a thing that I want to accomplish, I'm good at committing. I did 500 days and I'll have you guess how many days were green out of 500, 10% would be 50. Just guess how many days. Mind you, this is the middle of COVID. It was 2020 into 2021. How many days do you think were green?

21:19 - Chase (Host) How many green days out of 500? Yeah, I'll say 50.

21:25 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, so that would be 10%. I had 14. So 2% of my days. I felt like I'd valuably contributed and I was excited for and prepared for tomorrow and I was like, oh, this isn't good. There were a lot of yellow and way too many red and I was like this isn't good, Something's off here. And I tried to learn something from the data. And so I went through and I looked at the days that were green and all of the days that were green had 10 hours of sleep or more and I know that sounds like a shitload of sleep, but like it's true, 10 hours.

21:52 That's a really interesting variable. So if I slept 10 hours, I automatically had a green day, which, like that, was just something to note. And then I was like, what else is included on the green days that like might be, you know, scattered throughout the remainder and the things that showed up on every single green day were intentional movement and connection to others. And I was like, oh, this is cool, this data is cool. While it's not like a complete study, it's like really interesting.

22:15 - Chase (Host) It's a really strong study of one, I mean.

22:16 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, and so I looked at the other data. Yellow was like all over the map. It was really inconclusive. I think it was more like a feeling. It was more subjective. If I just felt like the day was shit then I was probably was.

22:26 - Chase (Host) if it wasn't green, it wasn't red, it was yellow.

22:27 - Ben (Guest) Well, obviously yellow. And then the red days were like if I was underslept I didn't move my body automatic red. So I was looking at the data and I was like, okay, if I day a green day, it's like I need to prioritize quality sleep, I need to prioritize intentional movement and I need to prioritize connection with people that I love and so like. Over the last now three years, I've made a commitment to ensure that, like sleep is my number one priority, I do everything I can to get eight hours or more of sleep. A night team sleep man hard. Yeah, people ask me all the time what's your favorite recovery protocol? Eight hours of uninterrupted sleep.

23:05 - Chase (Host) I reverse engineer my entire life off of my sleep schedule. Same.

23:08 - Ben (Guest) For like five years. Yeah, this is my project and selfishly, I want to sleep better, but I know that by sleeping better I show up better for the other people that I interact with. And then, secondly, I'm very committed to moving in a way that serves me. I know there's a billion ways to train your body. I like resistance training, cause that's the thing I've done for 23 years, um, but I make it a point to like stay on track. I have a training schedule like I don't miss and uh.

23:38 And then now today, or today is like now, in this moment of my life, I'm looking for connection every single day, cause you know I could looking for connection every single day, cause you know I could go months without speaking to, I could go months without speaking to another person. It happens and, and what's quite interesting is, if you look at those three things sleep, training and connection to others in the moments where my mental health was the worst, I couldn't sleep, I wasn't training and I was isolated, and so like it's incredible to me to like the data now it makes sense for ben but like if I want to stand the best chance of having the best mental and emotional experience, then I better prioritize sleep, physical movement and connection to the people that I care most about, and those are the free. That shit is free.

24:27 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you can consistently stack those in a very free manner. Yeah, you like no, no cost.

24:36 Yeah, you can build upon it and you can add costs for sure. But like I think that's where and this is where I it's it's guy talk. Right now I'm going from interviewer to get in here to conversator. Yeah, um, as a guy, I think really in anything, but especially things that help move the needle for me when my physical wellbeing is on the table, to hear other things that you're doing, that I'm also doing, it's, it's beyond, like a validation thing. It's just, oh, there's someone that I told also doing it's, it's beyond, like a validation thing. It's just.

25:05 Oh, there's someone that I told you before like I look to what you do and how you do it for inspiration and like tools and tricks. I literally ran your program. There are like assets that I get from you, and to hear you kind of say that some simple things that I do are also simple things that I do as a guy, like it helps immensely. And I think I don't know if there's so much the culture anymore, maybe not the circles that I run in really anymore, but I don't think it used to be that way. They used to be. How much weight do you move in? Who are you hooking up with? How did you crush it? You know, and there is a time and place for all this stuff, but when I really take inventory of the things that matter most to me and that I want to hold onto for as long as possible, I need things to support it in a simple way.

25:46 - Ben (Guest) Yeah Well, I think I think you just hit the nail on the head the things that matter most to you, and so I think there's this level of comparison that most men have. I felt it. There's seasons in my life where it's been valuable, like me being a neurotic, like hard charging, like it was valuable in the military, like me wanting to just beat everyone all the time. That was valuable, that was a thing that served me then. But like now, as I age and I get more mature and I realized that like we're all like, while we are very similar, we're all on our own little race. Yeah.

26:18 Like I've had this thought about being stuck or feeling behind, and I was journaling the other day and I wrote this thing.

26:31 - Chase (Host) It looked way better when I wrote it, but it was like how could I ever be behind if the race is only mine.

26:33 - Ben (Guest) That's a clip. I can't be truly, because we're running different races, and so I think there's this level of maturity that happens. We're about the same age, like as you get into your thirties or maybe older, where you start caring, or start start caring less about what other people are doing, like I don't give a shit how much you bench, I don't. I care that you're strong and capable. I care that you feel great in your body and I care that you're excited to come back and train and even more, I care that you're excited for the life that you have to live, because training is only what? 45 minutes of your day.

27:01 - Chase (Host) Right yeah.

27:02 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I uh, I always like pause when people get really hung up on like the modality, like I care very little about how you do the thing, it's about what the thing can do for you in your life. And so like, yeah, I do breath work and I do cold exposure and I do mindfulness and I do the journaling thing and we do training and we do like all this stuff. But it's like we do the things that serve the client. Or like, for me specifically, it's like there are seasons in my life where cold exposure is the most valuable tool in my arsenal. There are other seasons where it's a 10 minute walk after I eat my lunch and it's like just because, like just because, uh, so I like this, this thing. I didn't say this, somebody else did, but not everything works for everybody all the time and I think it's on you, like I said at the beginning, it's on you to determine what those things are for you, not even, even, not even everything works for you all the time, Correct?

27:51 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, hey, friends, quick break from my conversation with Ben. Aren't you glad Ben's back on the show and him and I talk a lot, a lot of things here today. And what moves the needle for us, and especially for Ben? What moves the needle for his clientele? And you've probably heard us talk about thus far and we definitely bring it up again how important our sleep is for us, for our personal health and wellbeing, but also so that we can show up the best for the people that matter most in our life. And I know you, listening here right now to Ever Forward Radio, that is you, that is what you have been doing, or you're here today to learn how to do that, and I'm just going to reiterate sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, quality, consistent sleep is going to be your best friend. You can go down a rabbit hole in terms of hacking your sleep, right, but listen up. Probably the best thing that we can do for our sleep to optimize it out of the gate, like night one, is temperature, and so, yeah, you can turn down the thermostat in your home. You can maybe open up a window. You need to get it cool like cooler than you think you are. But beyond that, maybe you're like me. You got a partner and you're fighting over the thermostat. You've got extra blanket sheets and the temperature struggle is real. No more, not anymore.

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31:36 - Ben (Guest) And I think, like having the ability, so I'm like, I'm like classically anti-wearable, like I don't, I don't play that game.

31:43 - Chase (Host) Sorry, I double-deaf for both. Yeah, no, I get it. It's fine You're wearing my wearables too.

31:49 - Ben (Guest) But, like I think, for so long, especially especially men, have like been separate from their feelings. I'm, From my own personal experience, I didn't have feelings until I was 30 years old, Didn't know they existed, and then all of a sudden I felt all of them all the time and I think, or I know, that like I enjoy the way that I experience the world better when I am more in touch with how I'm feeling on a day to day basis. Um, you look at my training. It's like if I go in and I don't feel great, well I don't do the thing, but when I feel good, I fucking send it. You know, like there I play into like how I feel this body scan thing, Like my most asked question on the internet is can you tell me what a body scan is like?

32:38 - Chase (Host) what is that?

32:38 - Ben (Guest) ben, what is the body scan? So every morning, my morning routine I'll talk about this. I just said it kind of like, in like, really quick. But my morning routine is I get out of bed, my feet go flat on the ground. I feel from my toe, my midfoot, my heel, I work my way up to my butt. It's square on the edge of my bed, I'm stable, I'm sturdy, I'm grounded here. I work way up my spine. It's strong and it's straight. I relax my shoulders, I feel my arms soften my elbows and then I feel the weight of my hands and my lap. From there I take a deep breath. I feel from the bottom up Belly first, chest, second, throat, third.

33:09 I note how the air feels as it fills my body, the tension, the pressure. I stop for a minute. I check in, literally a scan of my body. Is there tension in my shoulders? Does my neck feel weird? Do I have a headache? Do I feel light or am I heavy today? And then I let the air go. And as I let the air go, I think of something I'm immensely grateful for and I let that gratitude carry me through the next part of my day.

33:31 For me, that next part is a quick glass of ice, cold water and then'd get outside. People are like I can't do that because I have 14 kids and my dog is like inside my shirt and I'm like that takes me four minutes. If I'm going slow, yeah, yeah, like slow, slow. If I'm taking my time, um, back to the point of like accessibility or sustainability, it doesn't have to be like. It doesn't have to be like this black or white, all or nothing thing. It can be so simple, like anything is better than nothing. So if it's a deep breath and then you go about your day like that's a win in and of itself. I think, especially in wellness, people think that one minute of training is the same as zero minutes of training, and it's not.

34:20 - Chase (Host) No.

34:21 - Ben (Guest) No, all that to say, like the things that have been most valuable and I've tried all the things the things that have been most valuable have been the ones that force me to actually be present, actually take account of how I'm feeling in the moment and then actually take active steps towards the life I'd like to live, the future I'd like to live. It's painful and it's silly and it's like hard work, but, like you know, the things that you revere in your life, the like accomplishments you've had that you like are most proud of, are the ones that were on the other side of the most difficult experiences of your life. So, if you like knew that, and you knew that, like taking any novel endeavor or like starting any new thing would be hard and like that's exciting, oh it's the most exciting.

35:13 - Chase (Host) Yeah, you've mentioned a couple of times intentional movement. Yeah, yeah, can you kind of describe, define that for us?

35:21 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, so my background's in strength and conditioning and there's a difference between training for a specific end and just like moving your body for movement's sake, life Right, or like just getting sweaty A little bit more than just life.

35:31 - Chase (Host) Sure Like getting sweaty.

35:32 - Ben (Guest) Like I love to use the like group fitness model compared to like I go to a personal trainer, like there is value on all ends of the spectrum, but like the more general the training, the group fitness model and there are some out there who run specific programs for many people at a time and that's fucking great. But like in general the group fitness thing is we just want to get you sweaty, we want you to burn calories, we want you to like run and jump and lift and all that. Usually they're catering to the lowest common denominator or the least able individual, which is also totally fine. And then you look at the other end of the spectrum and it's like specific training for a specific outcome. There is a specific adaptation to the imposed demand. It's called the said principle If I train this specific thing, then a specific thing will occur.

36:18 And like that's my background and so I've kind of like covered the whole thing where I'm like if I'm going to move, I'm going to do it with intention. So if I'm going to go to a group fitness class and just move for movement sake, then like I'm going to make sure that that's why I'm there. Everything I do has an intention. My intention for today was to have friendship with you. That was the intention.

36:38 Like the podcast is secondary friendship that happens to be recorded right, which is fine, but, um, if you only knew how many of my personal friend conversations are recorded, um. But uh, everything I do has intention, and so when I say intentional movement, it's just like just know what you're doing, because if you don't know what you're doing and why you're doing it, or where you're trying to go, then it's really hard to make progress. Seneca says something about like if you don't know which port you're headed to, no wind is favorable. I butcher that You're the stoic.

37:10 - Chase (Host) It's like if you don't know which port you're sailing to, then any wind will take you there.

37:14 - Ben (Guest) It's the opposite, it's the that yeah, it's no wind is favorable because if because if you don't know the goal, then no wind can push you toward.

37:22 - Chase (Host) You know it'll take anything just for the sake of the. You're having momentum, you're going somewhere, you're actually going somewhere, but you're just actually getting yourself more loss or further off course yeah, and there is like someone who wins the lottery and that randomness provides alignment later.

37:35 - Ben (Guest) Like that happens, sure, but like I just ask guys to figure out what they want, because we have the technology, like for anything that you want to accomplish, we have the tech to get you there. And I jokingly say tech like we just have the systems you want to get stronger, well, pick up heavier, you know, like that's one small example. You want more presence and regulation in your life. Pause for a moment a couple times a day. Take a deep breath, feel the air on your skin, think of something that you're grateful for. Like, if you distill down what I do, I call myself a presence coach.

38:14 That's not what the like sound bite is. I haven't heard that one. I know I don't talk about this. I don't talk about I don't talk about this, but, um, I would say, like I'm an integrative wellness and performance coach and I work with you know, founders and creatives to implement sustainable wellness practices in their lives and their work and in their, in their, you know families and, um, you know central nervous not central nervous system, but nervous system regulation and stress management has been my focus for a long time. I spent most of the last five years traveling with musicians and what a stressful environment. It's been really incredible. But I have taken a long, hard look at what my value actually is and I think it's really just giving the permission and tools to find presence more often in your life, through example, really.

39:03 And so I talk about this three-step model where it's like, if the goal was presence first, I'm here in this moment, the only moment that's real. This is all we have. If I'm here right now, I can be grateful for what's at my feet, I can be grateful for you, I can be grateful for this beautiful room, for, like, the cup of water that I have that is perfect, and like, maybe, the human race as a whole, like I, can be grateful. And then, because of that gratitude, I can be excited for what's to come.

39:31 And I look back at my experience and I talked about, like, not having quality sleep, not having fitness, not having connection to friends. What I didn't have was excitement. No hope, man, you could. They're interchangeable. I had no excitement for my life and so, like I you know I we've talked about this before, but I, like made a couple of attempts on my own life. I attempted suicide in 2018 and 2019. It wasn't because I didn't want to be here anymore. It was because there was no reason to be here anymore. The pain of my current experience was so great that the only option that I thought was to just get out, and I talked to so many guys. I talked to so many guys about this same thing, feeling the same thing, and it there's a common thread there's no hope, and so like and, I think, lack of or loss of purpose for men are very interchangeable with hope.

40:23 - Chase (Host) Totally Lack of hope.

40:24 - Ben (Guest) Totally and it's like, okay, well, how do you develop purpose? You get curious. You get curious, you try new things. You find a thing that feels good in the moment and then you fucking come in, you go for it, fucking commit, you go for it. And when you're when you go for it, you become passionate and it's the passionate people who have the most purpose. Like, I don't want to say it becomes your identity, because I don't think that's the thing. But I look at my life and it's the moments where I was most in, like all in on a thing I identified with the project.

40:55 - Speaker 3 (Host) I talk about the talk about the army all the time.

40:58 - Ben (Guest) And like the thing I loved about the army and the thing that I've struggled most to replicate now in the civilian world, is caring so much about a thing and having men on the left and right care as much or more about the same thing.

41:13 - Chase (Host) And to a level that doesn't even need to be spoken, no, just the fact that we all are here, yeah, we all know what it took to get here, yeah, and what most likely will be demanded of us.

41:25 - Ben (Guest) And there's equality, yeah, across the board yeah, well, there's like a level of trust. There's a level of like of, of um, you know, just understanding across individuals, and I just haven't found that in the civilian world. And I get it, they're like two different animals.

41:40 - Chase (Host) I didn't realize how meaningful that was to me and I didn't realize how much like to my core it had, like embodied me, until I was out.

41:52 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, so that's why relationships like this have been really great. I have a handful of close friends from the army, yeah, and it's nice because they have understanding. You know, like they went through it or they like were a part of it, and so they get the things that I've experienced. But I talk to veterans all the time, um, about this idea of finding purpose, and the thing I say it's like curiosity is step one. Oh my God, yeah, especially when you make a huge life transition like this and it could be like a transition from sport, a transition from school, a transition from one career to another, when that thing you identify with or that thing that's been your life for so long ends like it's on you.

42:30 We have, you know, several mutual friends. One of my close friends he has this saying where he says no one's coming to save you, and I know that's not his, but it's burned in my brain. I'm incredibly lucky that I've had people who've come and saved me when I was in a bad moment, but I can't rely on that. And so, to the men who are listening, it's on you. But that is the greatest gift because through your own growth and your own curiosity and you taking the next right, manageable step. You build this momentum, you build confidence in yourself and then you build the momentum to continue making progress.

43:07 - Chase (Host) Yeah, just to think about that for a second. No one's coming to save you. I recently have been kind of reminding myself of that and I recently have been kind of reminding myself of that. And it's this moment of you're at like the peak, you're at both sides. It's almost like you're at both sides of a parallel universe, where one is dying and another one is being born.

43:28 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's the breakdown before breakthrough. Oh my God, yeah.

43:31 - Chase (Host) And it's just, it's at the moment. I feel like when we are, we feel not actually, we feel like we are at our weakest, we are furthest from our goals, we are furthest from anywhere and everywhere we really want to be or actively pursuing, for whatever reason, it's not happening. But when you just flip that switch and you just choose to say or think that, even just bullshit yourself, it's like, oh, I know what to do next.

43:54 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I think that's an interesting perspective. I love this idea of like you can't feel your way into action, but you sure as hell can act your way into feeling I like that, yeah, like that like I hate fake it till. You. Make it, I just hate. I hate saying that, but like so many times in my life I have fakedaked it until until I've made it, or what's the alternative?

44:20 - Chase (Host) people say, be it until you see it. Yeah, it's the same thing.

44:23 - Ben (Guest) But like but like. It goes back to the thing I said change your state, rewrite the story. You're fully capable of doing all the things. If I could do it, so can you to everybody out there. If I could handle this, you can.

44:35 - Chase (Host) I'm a total idiot. I have no idea how I pull off life every day.

44:39 - Ben (Guest) And then you build a strategy and people are always like well, I'm so stuck and this is from my own diary I've been stuck for so long. I met the impetus of an incredible professional and personal change and, like I'm dealing with this now, I'm stuck, functional free state, I'm in collapse, and what that means is just the next step. The thing that I have like deemed the next step is not tolerable, and that's okay. What do you mean not tolerable? It's something that my nervous system won't allow me to step into, and that's okay.

45:05 There are other things that are just tolerable enough, where I can like take action and be okay, but for some reason, some of these things are like too big for me. They're a bridge too far at the moment. They're a bridge too far at the moment. All good, no bad. All I have to do is get myself regulated, get back into my present body, and then what I can do is look to break that goal or that next step into smaller, more manageable steps. And what's been a hard thing for me and I'm sure most men is it's like you're telling me that I'm supposed to do one small thing. And that's my task. That's my task for today.

45:37 That can't be true. 23-year-old Ben was a menace. I was so capable. I was ignorant to everything going on in my body but, like I was a boss and I look back at that version of Ben and I'm like God, he was hot shit. He was capable, that young Lieutenant Ben.

45:57 - Chase (Host) Which is where I think a lot of guys get stuck. Yeah, we, we, we only look back at what we used to be. In that version that we're comparing ourselves to now was dying on the inside to get clarity as to the version we are now, but outwardly it was a different story.

46:08 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, and you know, and there's parts of it too, where it's like you only remember the good parts, Like you don't remember how much you struggled, which I think is also a pretty brilliant thing- to note because, like later, when you look back at this moment, this struggle, it's going to be insignificant and that's okay and that's like a win, you know Absolutely.

46:23 But I but I think that there's this really cool opportunity for like, so we can use my experience now where, like, things have been like stressful and too much and and I've looked, been looking for ways to break them down into smaller, more more achievable, more actionable items, and I've had a lot of shame around, like you're telling me I have to do like one, like I have to send that email today.

46:46 That's the thing. And I've had some support systems in my life where they're like, yes, like the alternative is you don't send it, so send the email and then like like celebrate, yeah, and like. I know this is hard for men, especially because, like, we've been like programmed to be like doing all the things all the time, and I'm sure many women feel the exact same way. But, um, I've been saying this mantra now for the last three years and it's there's two parts, and the first is if I do nothing else for the rest of today, it will have been a success. And then the second thing is I say, in this moment I have everything I need and it's like that recuses me of having to do more. And I don't know if you read Cal Newport ever, dr Cal.

47:36 - Chase (Host) Newport yeah, I'm familiar with him. Deep work yeah. Digital minimalism yeah.

47:40 - Ben (Guest) He just. This is a shameless Cal Newport plug. He's my favorite author. Um Cal, call me Um. He uh wrote this book.

47:53 We just have to have Cal Newport in this studio, Um, I've gifted deep work to literally every human I know, Um, In this studio, I've gifted deep work to literally every human I know, except you. But he wrote this book called Slow Productivity and it's this take on knowledge, work and how like we have. Like I said before, if it's only your race, then there is no race. Like if you're the only one running it, you don't have to worry about comparison, you don't have to worry about deadline, you don't have to worry about any of this. As long as you can like sustain your life Like. I'm very lucky I'm able to like sustain my life with the work I do, but I have the time and space to like work slowly on projects that really matter. And so he he challenges people to get out of this like pseudo productivity model where it's like busyness equals valuable work and it's more like slow productive. Quality work is the thing that we're actually after quality over quantity.

48:38 Yeah, and I um, all of these things combined have been really valuable to me understanding that I don't need to solve every problem right now, understanding that I can take the slow approach, and understanding that there's like deeper work at play. It's like it's not just task accomplishment. It's like healing my damaged nervous system. It's like getting over my imposter syndrome. It's understanding that there is a better way to resolve conflict. Like. There's all of these layers that like are. It's all like simultaneous growth and it's been really, really special. But it all started with a deep breath. I joke all the time. It's like had 28 year old Ben just known that a deep breath and a phone call to a friend would have kept him from trying to kill himself? Like what a different experience I would have had. And I just didn't know.

49:26 - Chase (Host) Yeah, yeah, you got to grace. Oh sure, grace for sure.

49:30 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, yeah, and I look back on it now and I'm like I look back now and I'm like I'm so incredibly thankful for my experience, Because it was the breakdown before the breakthrough. That is my life now, and now I have this incredible opportunity to impact people in a way that I never would otherwise.

49:47 um, but I wish for that version of Ben that there would have been a different level of support available and maybe it was, maybe I just didn't know, yeah, but like I'm obsessed with this idea of utility and being useful and I just hope that, like me, sharing my experience can be valuable to just one person, and like that's like that's the only reason I share any of this is because, like I know what it was like oh my God, yeah, and I know you've had experience, like I know what it's like and like it fucking sucks.

50:22 And to think that you're alone, I think that's the other piece to all of this. Like your experience is not uniquely catastrophic. Like, while the inputs might be different, like we, we live different lives, but we all have fears, we all have wants, needs, desire. We all have the same things and so, like the way we relate to them is probably far more similar than we could ever imagine, and so it's like knowing that, like the thing that you're experiencing, that guy over there is probably experiencing something similar, and so that's a really cool opportunity for like grace, empathy and love for other people to realize that, like they're dealing with the same shit, and if you can have grace, empathy and love for them, then, like you sure as hell can have it for yourself.

51:06 - Chase (Host) Another phrase I like beyond no one's coming to save you. Is you're not special?

51:12 And you're not. That's what I like to. I like to kind of couple that with it's like the rough and tough, no one's coming to save you. Therefore, it's my own kind of personal call to arms, coupled with I'm not that special, is it's a great? It's a great call to action, but a humbling kind of reminder that, yeah, your pain and suffering is your pain and suffering, your stressors are your stressors. But literally, look around you. You might not see it, chase, but like the shit running through some people's heads or the actual breakdown somebody might be having, yeah, very, very, very similar human experiences.

51:48 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I think that, like saying you're not special does a disservice to the value that the individual brings. How? So? Like, um, while you not, while you might not be special, like in terms of like difference, you might not be that different than the next guy. Like there are unique qualities about you, chase, that are so incredibly valuable to the people that you impact on a daily basis that not having you in their lives would be the worst thing.

52:23 - Chase (Host) Appreciate that. I'll say you're not special, meaning like I'm not special in that I get it.

52:27 - Ben (Guest) Other people have I get it, I get it, but I but like just for the soundbite, like like you are special and valuable and worth being here and like, um, this was a thing that I thought about all the time when I was like having my mental health thing where it's like I don't matter, it was like a thing.

52:49 I thought I was in the way, I thought I was a burden, I thought that, like me leaving was would be beneficial to all the other people that I was like limiting and hurting and burdening. And so I think it's like reframing that idea where it's like, yeah, like how incredible, I'm not so different from you, like that makes me feel less alone, right, but also, but also how incredible that, like by me staying here, I can positively impact someone on a profound level that they might not get otherwise. Yeah, and I know a lot of young guys, guys who maybe aren't financially stable, don't have the job that they want to have, don't have the impact that they want to have, or they feel like they're just in the way it's not true.

53:38 - Chase (Host) I'm a blockage, I'm not. It's not true.

53:40 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's not true. It's a story that you tell yourself. It's not true, right, it's a limiting belief, um, and so for those guys, I'd ask you to look for moments where you were valuable and then try and reinforce that feeling, cause it's all about feeling, right, it's like it's like all about how you feel in those moments. And so if you can recreate that feeling where it's like I am worth it, I am valuable, I am competent and capable, then you can recreate that feeling and show up in your life in a different way, because there's an aspect of this, too, where it's I'm not really keen on like manifesting, but if we were going to like act ourselves into feeling differently, it's like if we can, um, know what the most competent and capable version of ourselves would do, like you can probably think through that, yeah, that, that higher self. Yeah.

54:25 Then you just like start to do the things that that version of you would do.

54:31 - Chase (Host) It's not that far fetched to. I mean, it's imagination at that point, but imagination we're not saying like, oh, I grow a fourth arm and, can you know, triple my task time. It's, it's actually the steps are right there in front of us but for whatever reason, we don't think we know how to access them or know how to create them.

54:50 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, and that's okay. You know, it's like people think that that's like a huge deal. It's like I work with like a lot of younger guys and we talked about momentum earlier but they're always like what do I do now? Like what's the thing? And I always just say take care of your physical body and read like your life depends on it. That's what I used to, that was my like thing. That I used to always say, and I think it's like evolved now. That was like when I was a young officer and like I had a junior soldier come in and be like what's the like, help me. Like help me be better.

55:21 And it was always that Take care of your physical body, read like your life depends on it. And I think it's like user dependent, like me and my fitness, like fitness is easy, like that's the thing I default to. For me, like what I need to do is like give myself grace for when I'm not the version of me that I think I am, you know. But if we're looking at building confidence, I think that's part of this like purpose and confidence and the whole thing. It's like just do the things you say that you're going to do.

55:50 - Chase (Host) Preach man, like literally it's. I love to look at it as a learn how to keep promises to yourself.

55:57 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, well, to yourself and others, but I think it starts with you, like all of this starts with you, and I think that's like a thing I value in our friendship is like there's a level of trust. I trust you.

56:08 - Chase (Host) I trust you yeah.

56:09 - Ben (Guest) Because, like there's no, like there's no reason not to, but that's the thing that you can build with yourself. It's like, if you lack self-confidence or you lack, if you feel like you're unable to do the next right thing, it's like start building that confidence with yourself where you actually trust yourself, like I. You know we all fail, but more times than not. I train when I say I'm going to train. I work when I say I'm going to work. I eat when I say I'm going to eat. I like do the things that I've like decided I'm going to do. And in my own life particularly, I've seen my self-confidence like skyrocket. It's been so incredible. And those are silly, low cost, no cost, but they're immediately effective and compound tremendously.

56:49 Yeah, yeah, I'm having like a realization right now where it's like all of these things like I've just started really implementing them in the last five years, but like I knew about this, like 20 years ago. Yeah. Like my life could have been totally different. It's like that funny saying where it's like what's the best time to plant a tree?

57:08 - Chase (Host) yesterday.

57:08 - Ben (Guest) Yes, well, 10 years ago, yeah, but like, if not 10 years ago right now? Um so, like for the guys listening, like I just want this to be valuable for the guys listening there are so many ways. There are so many ways to get yourself closer to the life you'd like to live.

57:24 - Chase (Host) Pick one, pick one pick one and test it out? Yeah, I mean, I think that's where I definitely struggled in the past. I think a lot of other guys struggle as well. Is you think you have? You have to do all of these things necessary to get the utmost clarity to the thing that is your thing? Yeah, and then when you can't adhere to it or it doesn't pan out the way that you thought or hoped, you think that, oh, that wasn't my thing and I'm a failure and my whole process was wrong yeah every day should be a fucking test yeah, but like.

57:55 But like with your core discipline, of course.

58:00 - Ben (Guest) Well, I think that's interesting when you start a novel task, if you just understand that there's going to be moments of like chaos and so many failure, like then you can. Then you can like see it as a non issue, it's like it's not a negative thing. And I know that people we said it earlier but like new things are hard, like introducing new novel tasks or new behaviors is hard, and if you just knew that it was going to be hard and you knew that things were going to fall apart on occasion, like that would be exciting because it's like oh, this is hard, that means I'm getting closer.

58:27 And then I get this question all the time, but it's like well, how do I know if it's hard and it's right for me, or if it's hard and it's wrong for me? Right if it's like a misalignment. What do you say? And this, this shows up often, like when people talk about, when we talk about relationships, it's like does the relationship serve me?

58:43 - Chase (Host) and I'm being challenged.

58:44 - Ben (Guest) It's a relationship where they're the wrong person, right, and I'm like well, that's on you to figure out for sure, but it's like the way that you discern that is by spending more time in that uncomfortable situation. It's time spent like. That's how you figure it out.

58:56 That's the only way you're gonna know that's the only way, like my ability, the ability to say no to things that are a misalignment, is a fucking superpower, personal, professional. Otherwise, the ability to say no to the things that don't serve you and and the life you'd like to live, that's a superpower. Now, um, the other side of that is like saying yes, enthusiastically, saying yes to the things that are. You can't just say no to everything and then not take action.

59:24 - Chase (Host) Absolutely.

59:24 - Ben (Guest) But, like if you create the space to do the things that you need to do and want to do, man, your life just skyrocket.

59:32 - Chase (Host) Learning how to carve hell yes or hell no into your life. I promise you are going to. It's going to help everything rise to the top for you, yeah.

59:41 - Ben (Guest) That's the that's like, and then I get it. Like, not everybody wants the same things. Like, not everybody wants the things that I want. Um, and you, like I said, it's similar to like all the other things we've talked about. It's on you to discern what's most valuable. But, like, I'm really interested in like this idea of like living my life to the fullest, because I've spent so much time not doing that. And like, what better opportunity than right now to like, just go, just like, do a thing, do anything and look at it as like. I look at all these things Like.

01:00:14 I went to my life for a long time I thought everything was like a permanent decision. I thought every decision mattered the most, and what I've learned is, like most decisions don't matter and nothing's nothing's permanent, literally nothing. The tattoos on my legs aren't even permanent. Like, like nothing is permanent. And, um, what a gift. Like, and I had to. I have to constantly remind myself of this. But like, what a gift. Just like, go do anything. And I cannot remember whose this is. Maybe Craig Ballantyne. Do you know Craig?

01:00:44 - Chase (Host) Yeah, the 5 am Miracle Morning guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:48 - Ben (Guest) He says this thing action beats anxiety. Yep, and I get it. Anxiety and depression are different experiences, but I think in any moment action wins. And so there's this type of therapy called DBT. People with like borderline personality disorder would subscribe to this model of therapy. It's similar to CBT, but I learned about this idea called opposite action through this DBT model, and I'm not a DBT therapist, I'm just a guy like I'll probably butcher this.

01:01:19 But, um, if you have the awareness around like so for me, I get home from work or I'm I'm at home usually when I work, but I'm done for the day and I'm like I want to sit on the couch and like watch my shows and like do nothing, but I know for sure that there are like other things that I need to do, like for sure always because I've determined that those things will get me closer to the thing I say I want.

01:01:37 And there's this thing called opposite action that they practice in DBT, where it's like if you have awareness around the fact that like me sitting on the couch and eating popcorn and watching my shows at 4 pm, like that's not going to get me there, then I choose the opposite thing and I go do it and I just start action and it's like all momentum building. But so I would like go for a walk and clear my head and come back and get to work or whatever it is, whatever it is, but like that's been a really useful tool for me because it's action-based, it's like momentum based, Um.

01:02:08 - Chase (Host) But yeah, I don't know why I brought that up, but yet, um, just getting going on stuff getting going is great, but, for whatever reason, we struggle to get there, and I think a lot of those reasons boil down to legitimate, illegitimate excuses.

01:02:24 - Ben (Guest) Sure, what's your take on?

01:02:25 - Chase (Host) excuses.

01:02:27 - Ben (Guest) I think it's like a different. I think excuses just show you what you want. What do you mean? So like, if I have an excuse for a thing, like, give me an example of an excuse um, I couldn't meet a deadline on this project because, yeah it's.

01:02:45 It turned out to be way more than I thought well, I mean, that's like a different like if the workload was too great, then like that's an opportunity for a conversation. That's probably like me being scared of conflict and me being scared of having a difficult conversation to admit that I can't complete the project. Or like talk to my boss and like show him that I'm not capable, like that's an interesting one, but I think like an excuse of like oh, I didn't start the book yet, I haven't started writing yet. What that tells me is that I don't care about the book, and so I think excuses are just really cool data points to be like, because results dictate. The thing that shows up in your life, whether you want to believe it or not, is the thing that you want, because if you didn't want it, you would do something different and you wouldn't keep allowing it. Yeah, yeah.

01:03:26 It serves some purpose. So, like, if you wanted a different thing, you would. If you wanted it bad enough, you would do a different thing, you would make behavior change to achieve a different outcome. And so I think excuses like people have different, like you know, more polarizing takes, but I think they're just data points, like if I, if I don't call the girl, I probably don't want to date her, and my excuse, oh, like well, I've just been busy, like I probably just don't want to date her, yeah, and it's as simple.

01:03:54 I think it's as simple as that. And so, like, the more you can get clear about like where your behaviors are, like the outcomes, how they're being dictated by the behaviors in your life currently, then you can get like really clear about what behavior change might need to occur to get where you'd like to go, absolutely. And again, if you don't know where you're trying to go, it's impossible to course correct. That's like you know, I was a nutrition coach for a long time, um, or you know, like even as a fitness guy, if you don't know what you're trying to do, then how am I supposed to prescribe training or nutrition to you?

01:04:28 Yeah, Just throw a bunch of shit on and see what sticks yeah, good luck, yeah, you know um on and see what sticks yeah, good luck, yeah, you know um. But that's just one man's perspective, I think. I think step one is like really getting clear about what you want and then, once you know that, work yourself back to this present moment. Forget about that for a second, work your way back to the present moment and look for a next right, manageable step towards that thing. Whatever it is, I really like short-term goals. Why? Because if a short-term goal allows me to commit really, really, really hard for a short amount of time, it makes me feel better. Like if I have a 36 month goal, I'm like fuck, I have to dedicate 36 months to this. What if it doesn't work out.

01:05:10 - Chase (Host) That payoff has got to be huge, tremendous yeah.

01:05:13 - Ben (Guest) But if I have a three month goal and I work really hard for three months and it doesn't work out or it doesn't like take the form I hope it would take, then I just chalk it up to experience and hopefully there was a valuable takeaway or it's three months into something that like pushes me further into my mission. So I like little sprints. I think it's much easier for me to like compartmentalize a short block of work and then you can get like really granular with it and like I'm very, very, very strict with my schedule and so like certain days have certain things and I time block everything and I like have priority lists of like what's going to go into each block and and people might listen and be like that's way too much work. But the work on the front end and you know this, the work on the front end to schedule has given me so much freedom on the back end because all I have to do is look at my calendar and show up and get to work. That's it. Well, I think too, like being, like I talked about being like that pendulum swing strict, not so strict, somewhere in the middle I think, and whether this is right or wrong I'm I'm not so sure, but like having that like strictness or that like rigidity in how you approach a thing initially can be really valuable. So like if I'm strict with my schedule or I'm strict, I'm strict with my wake-up time even still, like I'm accountable to that and like maybe there's a time later where it like gets looser but my commitment and rigidity there provides like space. Because if I wake up at 5.03, most mornings 5.03. Yeah, I love random, I love odd random numbers. Sometimes it's 4.47. Other times it's 5.11. But I wake up early, right, and I get to work and I think it's all values based. So it's like what's most important to me? Well, what's most important to me is that I get enough sleep, I train my body and I connect with other people. Those are my three most important things outside of the work that I do. And so I'm like, ok, well, if I get up early and I train, then I create the space to have connection with other people and also get all the work done and finish my day.

01:07:21 Let's say the goal was improved physical, mental, emotional and spiritual wellness, and I call spiritual wellness like connection to yourself, others and source, so it's relational, spiritual, whatever it is. If the goal were to improve wellness across those four domains, the most accessible for most men is probably to start with the physical. You're eating food every day. You're breathing every day. You're You're eating food every day, you're breathing every day.

01:07:46 You're probably moving your body every day, right, and if you can just get a little bit more clear about how those domains or those modalities can benefit you getting enough sleep, picking up something heavy every once in a while, eating foods that serve you, like nutrient dense, single ingredient, whole food, sources of nutrition are probably your best bet. I don't care how you eat them, but like that's where we should start. If it grew in the ground or it had a face, it's probably okay to put in your mouth, you know, like that type of shit. And then, like, once you've got that sorted out, then take an active look at like how mentally strong you are with yourself, with others. Is your nervous system dysregulated? That's probably happening. For most of us it is. We can take active steps. But it's like through building the momentum the momentum of the things we're already comfortable with then you can start to expand and grow in other domains that you might not be.

01:08:37 - Chase (Host) And if it's not, that's okay.

01:08:38 - Ben (Guest) Totally, totally. And then I think from there it's like okay, we've got a handle on some stuff. And then I think from there it's like okay, we've got a handle on some stuff, we've got these like no cost modalities of wellness like handled. And then for a lot of guys, like getting blood work done is like a really important thing.

01:08:56 - Chase (Host) This was one of my first sure notes I had down. I wanted to ask you Changed my life.

01:09:00 - Ben (Guest) Yeah. So while I was in the military I really wanted to talk about this, but while I was in the military I used to get my blood work done all the time. My testosterone has always been like really, really high. My total T really really high, my free T really really low. For those of you who don't know, the free T number is the. Is the number that you'd like Having?

01:09:18 - Chase (Host) high T is great, but if you don't have enough free T, then your body can't use it.

01:09:21 - Ben (Guest) then your body can't use it Right. So, like, once all essential function is taken care of, the free T number is like what's left over, that's like the. That's the number we gauge, like if we wanted to compare different, different avatars. That's the number we gauge to determine whether or not someone's you know, actually able to use it. And so my, I have there's this thing called sex hormone binding globulin the roof, just like my total tea, and what happens in that instance is then your free tea is quite low. So there are ways to to handle this, naturally with behavioral choices like extra sleep, you know, different supplementation type things weight training weight training, all the things we just

01:09:53 talked about all the things I talked about, yeah so after like 10 years of it really not changing and me feeling because I'm really interested in how I feel me feeling not so great. I was like, well, I think I should go get tested again and get the recommendation or like the you know, meet with a couple of different providers and I started supplementing with this thing called Enclomafine which is a. Cirm selective estrogen.

01:10:15 - Chase (Host) Yeah, I used it last year.

01:10:17 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, nothing has changed physically. I think there's like this misconception that, like people just use hormone support or like peptides to like look different. Yeah, I'm smaller, like nothing has changed physically, but I feel so much different. I feel so much different and I so I've been using um bpc 157, which is made with bovine gastric juice. I take the oral capsule, so basically I use it for digestive health and my thought is like, if I, if I digest my food better, my nutrient uptake is better and then so my body functions better from the food that I'm actually consuming, which is like a huge win. Have you ever taken?

01:10:53 - Chase (Host) it on or during or with an injury kind of recovery.

01:10:56 - Ben (Guest) So I've only had one like big injury since I've been taking it and I, you know I've always recovered pretty well I didn't notice a difference. I know for sure. If I'd have been like a structural injury, like if I'd torn a muscle or something, localized injection.

01:11:08 - Chase (Host) I pulled my back in your gym, yeah, yeah, years ago. I remember that, thanks to BPC 157, I bounced back in like days compared to the same injury, like a year ago. It took me weeks.

01:11:17 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I, you know truthfully, like I take a colostrum product, I take all these things that would enable me to have better gut health, but it was really when I introduced the BBC 157. I take CJC 1295 for growth hormone before bed. You know, it's all the things, all the parts matter. It's a synergistic effect across all the things. But like I say all this and I'll I'll like preface it Like the prereq was that I had I'd taken care of all of the other behavioral things.

01:11:51 You know, I worked as a strength coach for a long time and you get the 14 year old kid who comes in and he's like so what is it? Is it is it the creatine, or is it like it's the BCAAs or no? Is it the pre-workout? That's going to get me jacked like you, and I'm like well, first off, I should not be the guy you're trying to get jacked Like. But no man, it's like your body weight in grams of animal based protein. It's uh, you drinking enough water, you sleeping eight hours a night and then you removing some of the stress from your life, and they do that for five years yeah.

01:12:22 - Chase (Host) Yeah or 25, but like yeah, as a start.

01:12:26 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, that's a. Yeah, my brain just. Yeah, I'm thinking about one specific guy. Yeah, I think people really misunderstand. There's like two ends to this. People misunderstand how close they are to success, but they also misunderstand how long it's going to take them to get there. And I and like that's contradictory for sure, but it's like you're far closer to the thing you want. So, like, don't quit, like there are no loser or there are no failures, there are just quitters. Like don't quit, yeah, but also understand that, like, if it's a, do you know this idea of like finite and infinite games, finite and infinite games? Yeah, simon sinek, simon sinek, there's another, there's another book called by james curse.

01:13:08 - Chase (Host) Um, but basically the idea is, and I'll just share this. I talked a lot about it, yeah so.

01:13:11 - Ben (Guest) So this has been a way that I've framed my life for the last couple years. So finite game would be like you and I go to play tennis right, we know that we're playing each other, they're defined rules for tennis. We'll follow the rules, we're the only ones playing, and and then at the end there will be a winner. You'll win and I'll lose, right.

01:13:27 An infinite game would be like us going to play tennis, but maybe we're the only ones playing, maybe there are other people playing, we don't know for sure. They might be like involved somehow. There are rules that we know about, but there are also other rules that we don't know about, and at the end, there is no winner. The way that you win is you just get an opportunity to continue playing the game, and so things like competitions or sports or whatever, those are finite games. There's a start and an end and there's like defined structures, but like things like a relationship or building a business or a wellness journey, those are infinite games. The way that you win, or like the reward for participating, is just an opportunity to keep participating, to keep going.

01:14:04 Yeah, and I think that, like far too often, we think that we like win fitness I've never been married, but we like win in the marriage you don't. The way that you win is you get to keep going. And if you look at it as like an iterative process, it's like it's okay to even fail but you better not quit, because the failure just opens opportunity for another iteration and ideally, with more iterations you get more and more and more and more alignment and so, like the takeaway from that is it just like Just never stop.

01:14:37 - Chase (Host) I kind of have a little mantra now that you kind of bring that point home that I have said every night. I guess you could call it a prayer. Yeah, I guess more mantra. It it a prayer. Yeah, I guess more mantra. It's very concise. Yeah. Every night before I like. The last thing I remember for closing my eyes, probably for the last 10 years, has been thank you for today and I hope for the opportunity for tomorrow. Yeah.

01:15:01 And it's just that puts everything into perspective for me, because I mean so many times, especially lately, my head hits the pillow and I am just beat physically, mentally.

01:15:10 - Ben (Guest) Things that are misaligned is a superpower. The infinite game model is for things that you absolutely want to continue, like a health journey or a marriage. If you don't want to be in your marriage, don't play that game. Like, if you don't want to be in your marriage, like, don't play the infinite game, don't play that game. But like, for things that you actually want to exist in your life long term, like my physical, mental and emotional wellness. Like you better believe, I'm going to show up every day and practice something that's going to continue me in that direction, in that progress, and I love the idea of making things habitual. So I get a lot of questions about, like, how do I, I introduce a new thing? Like, how do I, how do I do this and I and I I think there are layers Meaning like, how do I get started with?

01:15:52 - Chase (Host) it yeah.

01:15:52 - Ben (Guest) Like, let's say it's fitness, right, like how do I get into fitness? Like I want to be better about my physical fitness, like what do I do? I been like five years, like how do I get back in? And I say the first thing is you need to be curious, just like when we're looking for purpose outside of like a pre a former life. Like you know, I leave the military I gotta be curious, I gotta look for things that might excite me.

01:16:12 Now there's a billion ways to do wellness fitness specifically. Look for a thing that excites you. When you feel excited or interested in a thing, lean in, pursue that thing. And then, if you're able, I would ask that you enlist the help of an external accountability source. Huge, yeah. External accountability, when things are hard initially, can be your most valuable tool. So if it's a partner, a friend, a community at a gym, a personal trainer, whatever it is, some form of external accountability that's going to keep you on task initially, then ultimately you won't need them probably. But like, that's the way you do it, that's how you get started. And then I think too, in terms of like building habits in your life, maybe outside of a fitness journey. James clear talks about habit stacking. I didn't invent this. This is like the most brilliant thing of all time. So like there are things in your life that are habitual. They happen every day. You wake up every day, right, you like do, hopefully, you brush your teeth every day shower.

01:17:08 Yeah, you can put the things that aren't commonplace, that aren't habitual yet with the things that already exist. So we can talk about me writing this book. It's kicking my ass writing this book and if I try to schedule time in my day to dedicate to writing, it never happens. Things get in the way Like I don't want to do it, like it's annoying, like you know, it's just, it's a hassle. And then there's a level of like decision fatigue where I have to like figure out the time, I have to figure out how I'm going to like do the whole thing. But now, on the back end of my morning routine, that body scan, deep breath, drink of water, walk outside, as soon as I come back in the apartment, I sit at the desk and I begin writing. There's no thought it happens because the morning routine happens every single day, the writing happens every single day and you could like with any other behavior you could do that. Yeah.

01:17:58 Yeah, which I think?

01:17:59 - Chase (Host) is really cool. It's beautiful because there is a way to begin to do anything that you want to do in conjunction with something that you not only are doing, but have been doing, so that, if you really look at it like another layer, is there's your proof that you can create new habits, because you already have them For sure. There's the proof.

01:18:17 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, and I think there's like this we talk about it as if it's easy. It's definitely not easy. It's definitely not easy, but it's so simple. Yeah, yeah, like and we've talked about simplicity has been like a theme across this thing but like that life you want to live is on the other side of a little bit of discomfort. Yeah, but like, fuck man, it's so simple, it's worth it too.

01:18:46 - Chase (Host) Yeah, in ways that you have no idea. Yeah, but like fuck man, it's so simple, it's worth it too. Yeah, in ways that you have no idea. Yeah.

01:18:50 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, Coming from a yeah yeah. I never thought I never thought my life, I never thought I could do half the things I've done, and I'm so excited for the opportunity to like step into those uncomfortable places and like have more, have more impact. I know you feel the same.

01:19:10 - Chase (Host) Yeah it's. You know, I thought a lot of different. I've thought a lot of different things about. You know how I wanted to talk with you today and I just kind of also helps me kind of reevaluate our relationship and friendship and just kind of never.

01:19:25 - Ben (Guest) He'll never talk to me again. I rambled for an hour and a half.

01:19:29 - Chase (Host) no, this is exactly what I wanted, but it just, you know, it just it's a reminder of, like, how important one having conversations like this are.

01:19:38 Yeah, two, hopefully, you know, many people listen to this and will hear some form of themselves that resonates with what you do, what I do, or something that you do or I do that they don't, but seems to kind of pull them like, oh yeah, maybe I should try that. I want to try it out and see what works. Um, but you know, for you and me, like I like it got me to like think about you again and just reflect on our friendship and like all the things that you've been through and all the things that I've been through and the ways that we've been, like been there for each other over the last several years, and also just the offshoot friendships. So, just as a guy, I think it's so important to have at least another guy in your life. You don't need to do a podcast, maybe you do whatever, but just to have another guy that you can carve out intentional time with, to just reflect and just to have these conversations and just to be, serve as mirrors to each other.

01:20:30 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I think there is a really Well OK. So I think a lot of people miss the opportunity to make the implicit explicit. It's like we all think a lot of things all the time, like I have thoughts about you, judgments about you, but they're reflections of me. But like having someone in your life where you can make the implicit, the stuff that you don't say out loud, explicit and you can just say the thing. I'm lucky, I have several people in my life where there are no barriers, like I can say anything to you and I know you'll receive it and it won't be weird. And in the same way, you can say anything to me about me about anything and it doesn't matter to me.

01:21:11 I see it as feedback, as valuable feedback from someone who cares about me, and I think that a lot of guys, a lot of people, probably don't have that outlet in their lives. Unfortunately, everything is hampered by like perception or like how is this going to make them feel, or how is it going to make them think of me if I say this thing, and like getting a person or like therapy is so valuable for this reason alone. A place where you can literally say anything.

01:21:42 - Chase (Host) It's worth it for that and it's actually welcome. That's the place where it's welcome.

01:21:46 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, the other opportunity if we want to talk no cost journaling and this I know I like I'm tangenting off of your beautiful, like you know, monologue.

01:21:56 - Chase (Host) You're the guest, you can say whatever you want.

01:21:58 - Ben (Guest) Journaling is a really cool place for you to put all the things that you don't want to say out loud into a place, into somewhere into your book. You don't have to reread it. So I do this thing where I journal every morning and I throw the books away.

01:22:09 - Chase (Host) Really.

01:22:10 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's fucking great.

01:22:11 - Chase (Host) Wow, what a release.

01:22:13 - Ben (Guest) It's incredible, wow. So I follow. There's this book called the Artist's Way, and one of the tenants of the book is these three stream of consciousness pages every morning. I've been doing it since 2019 and I've thrown all the pages away. Damn dude, it's good.

01:22:27 - Chase (Host) It's so good I might co-sign on that.

01:22:28 - Ben (Guest) I like that a lot, it's so good Cause you're not supposed to go back and read them, right? Yeah, yeah, if the trends start to present themselves. So people are like, well, how do you know what's in the book If the trends start to show up, like if months and months, and months, and months and months? Well then, I'll note that and I'll hopefully take action on it yeah.

01:22:48 There have been things that have shown up for a long time that I haven't taken action on, taken action on, but what that just tells me is that like it's not a big enough thing, like I don't care, about it enough, yet we talked about excuses.

01:22:58 - Chase (Host) Like.

01:22:58 - Ben (Guest) I just don't care about it enough. Yet I haven't hit her back because I really don't want to date her. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I've gotten better about that. Um, yeah, that's hard, that's it's a hard. I mean, you've been with me for a long time but it's like I am finding it challenging. Right, I had up until now I'd find it challenging to like say how I feel, but like, once you do it, you're like I want to tell everybody how I feel, yeah, yeah, it's like a flywheel.

01:23:27 - Chase (Host) May now is like god, I wish you would just shut up about your feet like she's kidding. But yeah, I mean, it truly is the most liberating thing you know. And, um, there's a lot of power and a lot of identity. I don't say it's a lot of power, a lot of purpose to be found and had and maintained through typical guy things of exercise, strength training, picking things up, discipline. But I'm here to tell you, as a guy that served in the army, as a guy that has been in health and fitness for almost two decades, that you know cares a lot about physical strength. Nothing has set me free or I'm willing to commit to more consistently than the emotional side and being able to stay connected to that and to say freely what I feel.

01:24:11 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it does an incredible thing, cause a lot of people are afraid of abandonment, like that's the thing. We're afraid of rejection, we're afraid of not like. I would argue that the like number one human need or want is like belonging. Oh yeah. Everything we do is to like stave off rejection.

01:24:29 - Chase (Host) We only get kicked out of the truck.

01:24:30 - Ben (Guest) In some capacity, yeah, and what's so interesting is like through vulnerability which is like an inherently hard thing, like a scary thing, so like you're a badass if you're vulnerable right, like that's a cool takeaway but like through vulnerability, you create connection with others, the people that are supposed to connect with you. Like if I'm wearing a mask and if I'm being something that I'm not, or I'm putting on some show, the people who are going to be drawn to me are aren't drawn to me because I'm me. They're drawn to me because of some act I'm putting on. And so if I just show up as myself, then I actually will bring the people who are meant for me closer and I will push the people who are not meant for me farther away, which is like so cool, it's so cool, it's the coolest man.

01:25:15 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it is the coolest.

01:25:16 - Ben (Guest) It's the coolest thing. Um, I love that. God, this is like all this is all me talking to me, by the way, like ben, you need to.

01:25:25 - Chase (Host) Just well, this is I'm not gonna. This is not like your journal. I'm not gonna throw this away at the end. This is gonna um, it'll live on the get some eyes and ears, but, dude, I want to, as we begin to kind of wrap up um, I've been here for way too long no, no, this is perfect.

01:25:37 No, you're right on schedule, man I I want to ask you because I know you do a lot of things and you help a lot of other people with a lot of things, particularly when it comes to their fitness optimization. Yeah. You got to have give us one, maybe kind of cool, different, trendy, I don't know anything that is like you're a little hack, one little fun tool that you use or fall back on for your kind of I will say optimization.

01:26:06 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, I mean, my favorite tool is deliberate cold exposure. Okay. I know that's like all the rage. I've been doing cold exposure almost every day since 2011. Damn, so I started in college. Damn, you're like the OG.

01:26:20 Yeah, I don't like to do that because I don't actually don't talk about this very much. Yeah, I don't like to do that because, like, I actually don't talk about this very much, but like cold exposure for me, like as a means to combat like feeling down or feeling depressed or feeling like apathetic, it's been such an incredible tool. And I know that like people are like, well, I can't have an expensive ice bath at my house. I'm like, well, me, neither dude, Like I just have a cold shower every single morning. And it's like, if we go back to accessibility and simplicity and like sustainability, like almost all of us are cleaning our bodies in some capacity every single day, Just make the water a little colder than not.

01:26:59 Like, most of the therapy work I do is called somatic experiencing work, so a lot of it's about like releasing stored trauma in the body and like being able to create the space for you to like progress in your life from a more grounded and regulated place. Cold exposure has been the thing that's allowed me to do that most often. Um, if we want to look at like other things strength training, resistance training and that might seem so silly, both of those things you're like well, that's not really novel or cool. I don't do anything cool.

01:27:31 - Chase (Host) I guess that's what I'm kind of looking for.

01:27:33 - Ben (Guest) I do the most boring shit.

01:27:34 - Chase (Host) Do you have like? Is there like a particular supplement that you love, or like mouth taping, or like any tool?

01:27:41 - Ben (Guest) If you're going to take a supplement, take creatine monohydrate five grams a day for the rest of your life. The strength and muscle development properties are second to none. So what it does Brain gains too. Yeah Well, that's the other part that they're just finding out about. Is that the cognitive health benefits are equally as impressive.

01:28:04 It's the most studied supplement of all time. Basically, what it does is it creates energy, um to be used in short duration, high intensity activity. Uh, so, like, if you want to like lift heavy, it's an incredible tool, um, which, like, the goal should be to lift heavy. If we talk about, like functionality, if you're like I want to train functionally, I'm like, well, function is context dependent, it's dependent on the task. So, like a bodybuilder, their training is most functional for the sport that they do. The swimmer, their training is most functional for the sport. And I think that, if we want to like be as broad as possible, the most functional of all training is strength training. The strongest individuals, not the biggest. The strongest individuals win in everything, and so, like, if the goal were to get as strong as possible, supplementing with creatine monohydrate would be really valuable.

01:28:55 - Chase (Host) So cheap. You like to mouth tape too, right yeah?

01:29:00 - Ben (Guest) So I actually have obstructive sleep apnea. I have been using a CPAP since 2015. Oh, I didn't know that. Full face sleep, full face CPAP. I'm actually getting some dental work done. I don't know if you can see this Because of the breathing obstruction, so I'm getting my mouth. My father is a cosmetic dentist, but he actually does TMJ stuff and he's doing the dental work, but expanding my upper palate. I was a preemie baby, so my mid face didn't grow, so I have a really small airway and a super high arch, and so basically during the night, I can't breathe at all, and so I've been wearing this mask. For what is that like? Nine years, holy cow, nine years.

01:29:35 But I started mouth taping in 2016 along with the CPAP and, truthfully, the combination of the two is like the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. If I sleep without my mask, it's like I haven't slept. If I sleep without the mouth tape, or if I add mouth tape, I'm like a different human.

01:29:55 - Chase (Host) That was one of those things I added last year. Almost a year of mouth taping, yeah, and I already prioritize sleep. Yeah, we already talked about it that the next day I was like, wow, it's performance enhancing drugs.

01:30:07 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's, um, it's such a game changer just for me, like also reinforcing nasal breathing. So like when I was younger I was a mouth breather because I literally couldn't breathe, but like, if you think about my night time, I'm spending training nasal breathing, so I spend I find myself just being closed mouth, breathing through my nose during my normal day, which is a thing that wasn't always the case.

01:30:31 - Chase (Host) Yeah, it brings your awareness to your breath in a totally new way. For me it was most noticeable in the gym. I didn't realize how much I was mouth breathing in the gym. You're working out, you're increasing your heart rate. You're like now the second that happens. I catch myself. I know it's breathe.

01:30:45 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, and I think maybe to your question, like I'm kind of averse in the way that I'm like anti-wearable, like biohacking, like that word makes me sick to my stomach. That's the one thing.

01:30:56 - Chase (Host) Ben and I don't get along on.

01:30:57 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, like I'm not into it.

01:30:58 - Chase (Host) I love all the data.

01:30:59 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, yeah, I think data is fantastic. I think it's fantastic. There will be a time later, I'm sure, when I start to incorporate. I think sleep data is the place I'll start where I like start to learn more about what's actually happening while I'm asleep. We've got to get you a chili pad man I have no idea what that is.

01:31:15 - Chase (Host) Oh bro, game changer. Okay, I'd love to Cool your mattress down to like 40 degrees or some shit that's cool.

01:31:22 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, that's cool. Game changer. Um, I think biohacking it doesn't feel aspirational to me. Like, it's like a $5,000 PMF mat and it's a $20,000 sauna and it's a yeah, they get wild. They get wild. So, like, for the sake of like, staying on brand and and and trying to showcase the fact that, like all of these things that your favorite biohacker is incorporating, there is also a low to no cost version that will be almost as valuable and, I would argue, valuable enough, like for you to implement. And I don't like to think about it as a biohack, I just like to think about it as, like, the way that you should be living Truth.

01:32:05 - Speaker 4 (Host) Yeah, yeah, as a biohack, I just like to think about it as like the way that you should be living.

01:32:08 - Ben (Guest) Truth, yeah, yeah, like if we make it this thing, yeah, then like people like oh well, that's not for me or that's like a lot of extra work. Chase sounds like a lot. I'm like what if it wasn't that hard? What if it? Was like. I don't know like it could be.

01:32:21 - Chase (Host) It could be so different it's just like that thought of in relation or in arguments. I'm'm like what if I'm wrong?

01:32:26 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, like, and nobody's wrong. Like, nobody, no, in this case nobody's wrong. The goal is to improve people's experience and, like, improve wellness across the board.

01:32:36 - Chase (Host) Two things can be true at the same time.

01:32:37 - Ben (Guest) Absolutely. I just think that um and I'm actually quite happy that I said resistance, training and whatever else I said with my like cool thing, creatine, creatine. That's the truth, man. Like I find it even funnier. So like I've been training for 23 years and I get asked all the time about, like my training. The reason I don't post fitness stuff on the Internet is because it's boring. It's boring, it's boring. I've literally been doing the same program for 20 years now. There's variants across the board. Like I switch things up, but it's quite literally the same programming, and like I'm not gonna change. There's your proof, everybody, yeah, but like I think it's delaying gratification, being okay with things, not feeling great in the moment or understanding where you're trying to go, like all those things combined. Like I know where I'm trying to go and so I'm okay with it being like monotonous.

01:33:41 - Chase (Host) But I say there's a success. The most monotonous thing in the world. True, it's boring as shit. It is To be successful, you have to be willing to be monotonous.

01:33:49 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, the people who are extraordinary just do ordinary boring stuff more often and more frequently than the person who is not.

01:33:58 - Chase (Host) There's this phrase I love. And then I'm going to get to our last question. Yeah, send it. There's this phrase I love. Have you ever read the one thing? Yeah, so there's a phrase where they go you're succeeding, you're failing so slowly it feels like success. And that's like this concept of people like you're doing a lot of things, you're busy, but not really productive. I read that and I kind of flipped it on its head. I love the opposite. We're actually succeeding so slowly it feels like failing only if you have the strong foundation. So like everything you're talking about and you have all of these simple habits compounding over a long time. Yeah, that's what that's. The day, man, you just like oh, I've been working out, cleaning up my nutrition, sleeping better. You're doing all these small little things that aren't sexy. Yeah, months and months and months. And then what happens? One day you wake up and you're like oh shit, look in the mirror like that's me like. But during you're like when is this gonna happen? I don't feel it. I don't see it.

01:34:52 - Ben (Guest) You were actually succeeding so slowly it feels like failing yeah, well, as you say this, I'm just thinking about that thing. I used to tell young soldiers take care of your physical body.

01:35:00 - Chase (Host) Read like your life depends on it, like if you just do that, yeah, if you just do that, your life will be not bad things to implement on the daily just do that yeah, if that's the takeaway gosh well, I really like that.

01:35:14 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, it's great.

01:35:15 - Chase (Host) I'm taking that with me it's good, take it, it's yours. Yeah, it's well, it's kind of the one thing. Yeah, again two truths. You know things make true at the same time. Yeah, we, yeah well, dude, third time I got it ever forward. This has helped me move forward in our relationship and I know that was going to help a guy listening, someone listening, move forward in a unique area of their well-being, which is the whole point of ever forward radio. Yep, ever forward. What do those two words mean to you?

01:35:41 - Ben (Guest) yeah, um, I think it's just a constant commitment to growth and expansion, and I thought you were going to ask how do I choose to live my life ever forward? I change up the wording every once in a while, a little bit different than I was two years ago. Um, the way that I'm choosing to live a life committed to growth and expansion is by showing up every day, grateful and joyous, committed to being grateful and joyous in every interaction, whether it's a solo thing or with other people, or like in my work in play Cause, with grateful, or when you're grateful and you're joyous, you can't have fear or anxiety.

01:36:26 - Chase (Host) Oh, I like that.

01:36:28 - Ben (Guest) With gratitude and joy. Fear and anxiety do not exist If I'm present and I'm happy for what I've got, and I approach every interaction with joy, which I think is a silly word, but like with a smile.

01:36:41 We could use a little more silly yeah but like again, simple, Like I'm grateful for your friendship, I'm grateful to be here and I'm happy, and like I know for sure that in this moment I have everything I need and if I don't do anything else for the rest of the day, it will have been a success. So I'll take it. I'm committed to showing up with gratitude and with joy.

01:37:06 - Chase (Host) Well, Ben, where can my audience go to connect with you more, learn more about your stuff? We're going to have all linked in the show notes and video notes.

01:37:09 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, my social media is Ben V Smith. B N V E E S M I T H Um I'm on Instagram and Tik TOK Um there's ways to work with me on there. I have a, I have a fitness training app, I also do executive coaching, so I have like a form that you can fill out to work together, uh, in that capacity. And then I'm releasing a couple new projects in the spring or in the summer and fall.

01:37:36 A new training, a new way to train, like more in depth, um, higher touch points with me, so that's a thing that people have been asking for, so that'll be coming out. And then a couple online online courses. Oh, all right, like wellness centric. Okay. So one based around like how to improve neuroplasticity, another about just like how to develop a holistic wellness plan that incorporates physical, mental, emotional and relational wellness what about in-person stuff?

01:37:59 - Chase (Host) uh, for those of you that maybe are local in la, yeah, ben does solo and co-host some really great cold plunging breath work, somatic stuff.

01:38:09 - Ben (Guest) I haven't been doing in-person personal training for about the last year. I'm playing around with the idea of like incorporating that into my life again. I just miss it, um, but I do do some small group events in Venice and so there's a place called Moss Collective um, just off Abbott Kinney in Venice. Every Thursday this month, most everybody does breathwork even though a lot of people do breathwork, um. So I'm looking in the summer to start hosting some free weekend like basically breathwork, ocean plunge stuff, just to like learn about how how to practice it in your life.

01:38:42 - Chase (Host) What a great place for it to man man.

01:38:43 - Ben (Guest) Yeah, but yeah really, if you want to get in touch with me, my social media is the way yeah.