EFR 797: The Art and Science of Sensuality, Healing Trauma Through Higher Self-Awareness and Body Church with Liz Letchford

00:00 - Speaker 1 The following is an Operation Podcast production.

00:03 - Speaker 2 Certain situations it comes out like very erotic. In other stages it comes out like preacher, like fire and brimstone, and other stages it comes out really innocent and sweet.

00:12 - Speaker 1 How do you really know when it's time to all? Right, I'm gonna lower this wall.

00:17 - Speaker 2 My opening into my artistic expression was such a slow bloom I had to meet very slowly. What is my nervous system capable of moving through without overload? And we learned and we studied cadavers and I was so fascinated by the anatomy, the information about the body, and I was storing it in my brain. But now that I have access to my own sensing abilities, I can interact with someone in a way that's so much more effective when I'm trying to help diagnose, offer them support, give them a treatment plan. You know, I went so far into the body and observing the body that it came out. The other side in storytelling and the stories we tell ourselves actually creates the tension that I was observing in people's knee injuries and hip pain and back pain and you were getting pleasure and deep satisfaction out of I don't want to believe dad's dead.

01:13 - Speaker 1 So is the deadlift my kink.

01:15 - Speaker 2 You're such a kinky deadlifter we are actually having to process everything that we have been placing out of our body Like like to put just put on the back burner on the shelf. We're going to deal with you later or never. And then we get a disease and you had a heart attack. You know your back goes out, you have migraines or something happens to force you back to presence. So my invitation to people is does it really going to have to take a catastrophe for you to feel and be courageous enough to slowly walk yourself up the stairs in inviting more sensation into your physical body? Hi and welcome to Ever Forward Radio. I am Dr Liz Letchford, I'm the founder of Body Church and I'm a transformational artist.

02:05 - Speaker 1 Hey everybody, Welcome back to Everford Radio. I am so stoked that you are here with me today because Dr Liz Letchford is in the house. And not only does she hail from my alma mater, go Rams, go, turns out, we both went to the same undergrad program, got our bachelor's of exercise science from Virginia Commonwealth University, from Virginia Commonwealth University. But what she's doing now in the world of healing physical, mental, emotional and all the amazing artistic interpretation behind her baby Body, Church man, this episode is unlike any I've ever done before. Today Liz is going to unveil her exploration of embodied expression and healing, inviting you and me to consider the full spectrum of our inner experiences, from the sensual to the purely innocent. Her insights into storytelling and its impact on physical ailments are both profound and practical. She offers a fresh perspective on how we might heal and expand our nervous system's capacity for sensation. My friends, today this episode is an open invitation for you to awaken your inner artist and recognize the walls that confine your full expression and sensuality. We're gonna be exploring art and science and healing the physical interpretation of mental experiences, body language, how to interpret your own body language, how to interpret that of others, In the true power that sensuality has in our lives. It is just waiting on us to tap into it.

03:35 Liz was with me in studio. This is such a beautiful episode. I really encourage you all to check out the video. You can always find it on the website at everforwardradiocom, or head on over to the YouTube channel. It is growing like crazy. Thank you so, so much for everybody for subscribing and liking the videos. You can just go to YouTube and search Ever Forward Radio, but, as always, the video and all of the extra links and resources that Liz and I talk about, including more information on her, can be found in the show notes today under episode resources.

04:04 - Speaker 2 We have completely lost our awareness of our own healing power and the archetypal dynamics between two people and the capacity to heal your own inner, whatever the other person represents. And it's been completely thwarted, and so my show is like a. It's like a completely thwarted, and so my show is like a. It's like a like. What a sermon would be, I guess. Um, and I'm speaking to how can we protect the feminine within, especially during? In certain situations it comes out like very erotic and other. In other stages it comes out like preacher, like fire and brimstone and other stages it comes out really innocent and sweet. Out like preacher, like fire and brimstone and other stages it comes out really innocent and sweet. So depending on where I am, it comes out completely differently. So it's just a. It's a. It's this artist, poet, like preacher show that is moving through me and it's been really powerful would you call that more sensuality?

05:02 - Speaker 1 would you you call that more creativity? How would you kind of really put a pulse on that and describe it, if you can?

05:09 - Speaker 2 It's sensuality in the meaning of, like our sensing ability, our ability to sense, and so I have like open level 12 ability to sense, and so what I'm sensing then comes through in this poetic expression, then comes through in this poetic expression and I'm I'm acting as a permission slip for other people to listen to the words I'm saying, watch what my body's doing, and everyone after the show, almost every single show, they're like.

05:39 All I was thinking was could I do that? Which a lot of people they don't. That's not the, that's not what it pulls out of people. And so then I teach people how to activate their own inner artist, their own inner like valiant, what they're passionate about who first gave you the permission slip if you're now giving them out to other people.

05:57 I had no choice. What it really came down to was my body. I felt. I felt surrender, I had the ability to feel the embodied surrender and so that felt sense gate was the in for these gifts to come online. So I just surrendered and surrendered to myself and watched as these stories were infiltrating me and just kept surrendering and surrendering. Meeting the stories, meeting the archetypal, like tension meeting, meeting stories that are not mine, that are ancestral, that are cultural, that are, you know, familial, and just like met them and was like like I love you and this is not my voice. And so I just surrendered and surrendered and surrendered to my own soul and then was able to really speak my soul and I'm like great, and now y'all do it too, because then it's more fun. So it's been wild.

06:54 - Speaker 1 Your face when you were kind of describing that was really unique. But I say that with love and respect, but really you have to tune in, watch the video everybody. But I feel like it was a very accurate facial response to a lot of those type of feelings, emotions, what could be's if that's even a thing. And I think that is really where a lot of people will put up walls or allow walls that have already been there to those types of feelings to stay. Put up walls or allow walls that have already been there to those types of feelings to stay.

07:28 How do you really know when it's time to I'm going to lower this wall or I'm really just I owe it to myself to finally kind of peek over, Intrigue the wall to curiosity, the wall to sensuality, the wall to exploring other forms and types of sensations and energies that we might feel are there and we don't know how to act, access them or understand them, or we flat out don't believe are there, but it doesn't matter, we don't have to believe in them because they are right, I think it has to go really slowly, like my opening into my artistic expression was such a slow bloom, I had to meet very slowly what is my nervous system capable of moving through without overload?

08:13 - Speaker 2 And so there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of nervous system based reprogramming techniques or emotional expression, emotional release techniques, or even, like the BDSM, kink world, is all intended to give really big inputs to help move energy, whereas traditional therapy is all of the mind, for example, and so anything like somatic therapy, emotional release, it's really important to listen to your individual body, and it's readiness to even explore these stories, these traumas, these ancestral nervous system attunements that are creating the wall, and so it's a slow, like sloughing off every single time you meet that. So if you go too fast, your adrenals get knocked out, and so this journey towards self-expression, towards artistic ability, is has been one of the most enlightening, um illuminating and health bringing journeys I've ever been on, and I studied health for my whole life. You know I was in the medical field sports medicine and shout out, dr Evans.

09:24 It turns out we have the same exercise. Physiology professor I'm sure I have his email somewhere I've never fought so hard for a C in my life.

09:41 It's so funny to remember academia.

09:43 Know, I went and got my phd and was just like fully in academia, um, in a kinesiology program at university of hawaii, and we learned and we, we studied cadavers and, and I was so fascinated by the anatomy, the information about the body, and I was storing it in my brain.

10:01 But now that I have access to my own sensing abilities, I can interact with someone in a way that's so much more effective when I'm trying to help diagnose, offer them support, give them a treatment plan, because I have access to this. You know we'll call it empathy or sensing awareness, and that came from me surrendering to my own artistic creative expression, and so that's where art and science meets and that's my mostly. Cry and plea for other people is like there's, we have this dualistic cognitive dissonance around. I'm an, I'm a scientist and I identify as a scientist, and so, like art is not for me or artists are like oh gosh, technology and terminology and academia is not for me, and I found that right in the middle is a really safe, beautiful, effective place to be when it comes to health and healing.

10:55 You know I went so far into the body and observing the body that it came out. The other side in storytelling and the stories we tell ourselves actually creates the tension that I was observing in people's knee injuries and hip pain and back pain. It didn't matter what kinds of therapeutic techniques I used, the pain would always come back unless that person felt and process the emotions. And the way we do that is through visiting stories and using our imaginations. It's the same, we'll call it technology that our brains are using in our dream state. So your brain is so brilliant that it can dream like the last dream you had. You're like Whoa, I am an incredible director, you know like we all have access to that genius ability when our bodies are asleep.

11:41 There's also an ability to access that awareness when your body is awake and it requires deep safety.

11:49 So when you're sleeping, your body is resting and it's in this brain state of deep safety, and it's the same brain state that children are in at all times.

11:58 So I actually trust children more to add their view and perspective of the world because they're in this deep, relaxed state for the you, you know the children who are lucky enough to have actual safety. And so my devotion has been to feeling and processing trauma, emotions, stories, things that have been limiting beliefs, things that have been beliefs that have been just cultural indoctrinations. I have been questioning and curious about all of that, feeling them, processing them, and now I can access what I can only describe as a dream state in my waking state, and so it's a deep sense of safety because I am not, my body is no longer um acting in a memory of the past, of fear in the present moment, so I'm no longer thinking I'm not safe when I am safe, which most of us, if not all of us, are existing in some sort of trauma, fear, stress state at all times, unless we've completely returned to our innocence, reliving the loop, yes, a loop, oh yes, consciously and subconsciously, you do this in a very unique way.

13:09 - Speaker 1 Um, I haven't seen it in person. I've looked at it from afar. I would love to see it in person on the next one but, can you? Let's go there, let's go to the auditorium, the stage, and let's set the stage for the listener, the viewer now, for how you actually now share this with other people so that they can have a similar experience.

13:27 - Speaker 2 Yeah, so I share this in a number of ways. So I work one on one with people in a really deep setting. I teach something called Body Church, which is more of a group setting.

13:40 - Speaker 1 And that's what I'm referring to.

13:42 - Speaker 2 Yes, and then I do a performance, edutainment kind of expression. So body church is probably the most accessible to most people, um, and so I bring people together and I teach them this breath practice that I discovered when my nervous system was at complete capacity and I was aware of the emotional expression in my physical body and so I couldn't breathe. I was having a hard time getting a full breath in and I was allowing my body to dance my emotions. I don't know if you're familiar with something called ecstatic dance, or so I've been to one before. So this kind of reminds me of, of that offering which, which is just you get into a room and you let your body kind of just do its thing and move to music.

14:26 - Speaker 1 Some people, when they watch me dance, would just say that's what I do in general. I'm pretty sure I have no idea what I'm doing, but it's pretty ecstatic nonetheless. Your body knows and that's all that matters.

14:39 - Speaker 2 Um, so it's. It's what ecstatic dance does or what like you can see it kind of in modern dance, when people just kind of allow their bodies to move. That's a body wisdom and body intelligence. It is the root of any of these ancient tribal dances. So you see, like you go to Hawaii and you watch the hula, the hula is the earth moving through the human body, teaching it how to unwind. So it's a relationship with the land. That's why it's so sacred. And so we have a relationship with our environment, with our emotions, with the people around us. And so if we have access to that embodied awareness and that body intelligence, our bodies will start moving and dancing. In certain traditions they've called it a kundalini awakening, when you have access to your life force and your body just starts moving.

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17:29 - Speaker 2 I grew up in a doctrine that didn't educate me on my body awareness, which was the Catholic Church. It was just like do these Southern Baptist over here.

17:38 Yeah. So and then I moved to a Christian, more ecstatic Christian Pentecostal church, because I love the music and the dancing, but no one ever taught me how to access my body's like holy intelligence. So the name Body Church is by design. And so you come, we come, we gather in community. I teach people the breath practice that helped me overcome that emotional like catastrophe that I was in, where I was just replaying and looping in my trauma and it was causing me more tension and more draining on my adrenals. So I recognized that and I was like, how do I get out of this loop? I was like, oh my gosh, it's the breath. And so, as I teach people this breath practice, I allow them to move and access their body's intelligence. And so we start moving really, really slowly and in spiral lines, because our fascia is organized in spiral lines, so we invite the emotional expression through the fascial network without getting carried away in the trauma that is stored in the body.

18:40 What happens when you get carried away in the trauma without holding it yourself and having the discipline in the container to hold it, is you start to go back into the past and you're now living in the past. We used to call that a flashback in psychology. So you're living in the past, you're letting your little kid, who's traumatized, just continue to loop in the past and play and express, and that little kid desperately needs the archetypal parents to make it feel safe so that that emotion can be witnessed. So the breath is the witness. So you, I have you, I have everyone in the class continue to focus on their long breath while they allow the little kid or the trauma or those expressions to play out. So it's both, uh, wild and contained. It's like, it's like doming yourself. So you, you're providing both the like I got you and the like let me. Let me just storm and chaos.

19:39 - Speaker 1 Should we all be our own dom first?

19:42 - Speaker 2 Yes, and so accessing, accessing that ability to, like you know, be like I got me that's. That's essentially what a what a dom, a dominatrix might, might do, and I trained as a dominatrix, so I don't know if I told me that's. That's essentially what a what a dom, a dominatrix might, might do, and I trained as a dominatrix, so I don't know if I told you that oh no, all right, you can't drop that and just like walk away.

20:01 - Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. How does that play a role in all of this? It's everything I mean, other than being a part of your story sure, yeah.

20:08 - Speaker 2 So I was really curious about dominatrix training because, after studying and going so far into the body and recognizing that people needed to go into theater and imagination to help heal these wounds, the only place that I saw scenes being played out for a therapeutic sense was in the BDSM world.

20:30 Out for a therapeutic sense was in the BDSM world. I was never personally, that wasn't my thing, but I was just like this is interesting. I'm going to go in as like an observer, as a scientist, learn these skills, understand what this is all about, and then modify it and bring those skills out of the dungeon and the underworld and the hidden and the shadow and the taboo into a modality that we can actually use. And so it really helped me first step into my power and not be afraid of my own shadow and not be afraid of anybody else's shadow. So when someone came to me, I could actually work with that instead of being like that's not allowed here you know, and actually be able to safely say, like I do in body church all parts of you are welcome here.

21:15 If you're, if you're like animal body needs to express, let it express. And as long as you keep that breath, it's not going to get carried away. There are no places to allow that to happen. And so, um, yeah, so the dominatrix training really allowed me to understand the nervous system, understand the breath, understand the role of our sensual, which is just our senses you know, smell, sight, taste, touch the sensual experience in our healing and in bringing more proprioceptive awareness to the body.

21:56 - Speaker 3 So I'm trying to to like unkink kink. You know I'm trying.

21:57 - Speaker 2 I mean, I respect it. I think it's a beautiful modality and there's there's um, there's something that wants to be birthed. That's really a powerful healing modality. And myself as a practitioner, when I was able to um, and myself as a practitioner, when I was able to be comfortable with people's emotions and really holding that and not shying away, not being afraid of someone's wild emotions, they just were able to be witnessed, they got discharged and then we could work with the physical body.

22:28 - Speaker 1 So I really want to teach people how to do that, move it, and being asked to dance, to have the physical self be a representation of the mental, emotional, spiritual self. Most of us shut down, most of us are uncomfortable, confused. I dare I even say feel shame, feel wrong a lot of different things. What is it about the physical interpretation of the mental?

23:27 - Speaker 2 emotional, spiritual parts to the human experience that are so difficult and at first feel so unsafe. For us, it's sensation, and sensation that hasn't been felt can be overwhelming, and so that is that is why so many people, after having generations of deep unsafety, deep overwhelm it's, and living in a society that forces doing and doing and like, ignore your body and keep going for this exponential growth. If we were to slow down and listen to our body, we would collapse. We would need to like, it wouldn't be functional in today's society, which is exactly what happened to me. I finally slowed down, listened to my body and I was absolutely out of society for nearly a year and a half and I was fighting it every step of the way until I finally surrendered and was like oh, there's a deeper wisdom coming here.

24:27 What do you mean by that? If I might ask a little bit further out of society for a year and a half, yeah. So first I want to. I want to expand upon your question, which was why is it so? Why is it so difficult? Um, and that'll go into my, my experience it. We store every single memory in our bodies, every single one, and there are certain memories that if we knew what had happened to us, what had happened to our ancestors, it would our minds. We couldn't, it would, it would be awful.

25:01 We would just it would be a deep grief that we're like I don't have time for that right now. Ideally, we live in a society and like a tribal society and we've got community and everyone's listening to the cycles of nature. The truth is, we don't have that, and so there is a compromise happening within most of our bodies. For those of us who have had the privilege enough or been forced to feel your feelings all the way through, there is a state of awareness of, oh, we actually need to listen to the cycles of the earth in order to operate, and so you're going to see that as a trend more often of people talking about the sun and the moon and the cycles of nature and the cycles of the body and, ooh, I fixed my hormonal stuff by listening to nature, and so it's not woo woo, it's just truth, it's just earth based wisdom and, um, I I was working with have you heard of internal family systems, ifs, so it's a modality that honors your parts. So I have a little girl part.

26:03 Parts work. There's a king, there's a queen, there's all these archetypal parts, and each one of those has a nervous system imprint and a voice and a character and an energy about it. And so I went and I was working with an IFS practitioner and I was going into this pain in my legs and we went so deep into it and I had this like pre-verbal tiny baby expression and I just wanted to kick my legs and say get off. And of course I just I surrendered and let myself do that. And of course the adult in me afterwards was like what happened when I was a baby? I don't, I don't think, I want to know.

26:42 And so I called my mom and I was like hey, mom, did something happen when I was a baby? Cause my body remembered something and she knew right away. She was like, yeah, when you were young you used to hold your breath, turn blue and pass out. And now my parents were 21 when they had me. So can you imagine you're 21 years old, you have this baby turning blue, passing out. You're like do I do?

27:06 - Speaker 1 Just seemingly for no reason.

27:07 - Speaker 2 For no reason, and and so they took me to the hospital. The hospital out of their own like order and not really evaluating me. You know, that's my bitterness coming out. They gave me a spinal tap to test for meningitis, which is really extreme, right. And so I the. The position that you put babies in to do a spinal tap is completely folded forward, head to the knees, ankles bound, and then they stick a needle in the spine. The parents are nowhere to be found. My mom said they told us to leave the room because it would be too traumatic for us and it didn't matter. The baby wouldn't remember it. Guess what. My body remembered it, and so I for my whole life couldn't ever get my head to my knees. I would get into a panic state. So anytime I would get into that position, my body would remember from my six month, six week old sorry, six month old self danger, terror, this position that particular form, so I could never do squats.

28:03 - Speaker 1 I was a fitness instructor for 10 years we went to the same undergrad. I know this was probably something on your mind every day.

28:10 - Speaker 2 Every day. I couldn't. I was like what is wrong with my ankles and my hips? I can't. It's like my fascia is like locked, and so if I would go lower, my back would start to hurt, my heart rate would start to elevate, I would start to get into a panic state. So I just like elevated my heels, did some, you know, did some modifications, joked about it. I worked on camera for fitness. So it was like doubly embarrassing to be like I'm supposed to be this like corrective exercise specialist, but I can't even do a squat myself. And I, of course, tried everything myofascial release, like different kinds of movements, ankle mobility, anything I could do. I tried it, believe me.

28:47 But the second that I allowed that memory to come forward, to shake itself from my body, and I was shaking, I was allowing myself to emotionally express. I would crudely express, I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express. I would crudely express, I would crudely express. I would crying. And so I wentically express. I would chronically express, I would chronically express, I would chronically express, I would chronically express. And so I went, of course. I went so deep into that like what else can I feel? And I feel healthier than ever, I have more body awareness than ever, my core is stronger than ever and I'm doing way less weightlifting than I ever was.

29:26 - Speaker 1 I was going to say? What are you squatting these days now?

29:41 - Speaker 2 Nothing, I don't need to. I just let you know that you can, exactly, cause I have the like. I have the muscle activation ability, because my body now is the whole map of my body. My brain's awareness of my body is so lit up instead of having dark zones. You know, when you're like Ooh, I can't even like your shoulder goes out. When you do certain lifts, it's like Whoa, hold on, go slow, slow.

29:51 Usually there's a spiral motion that wants to remember itself, and so I've just been devoted to that, and it is so amazing. What comes from? Wow, improved body awareness, thanks to a, thanks to going into my body to let my body tell me what happened when you were a baby, why can't you get into a squat so it just that completely changed my whole world. So after that, now that my body awareness is online, what else am I feeling? What other memories am I feeling? And so it was just this cascade, one after another, of oh, we opened up this frequency that you're now willing to feel. What's after that, what's after that, what's after that, and it's like continually meeting these stories, these very spiritual energies, um, that I know, I I define as a nervous system imprint. So it's an energy. Energy is real and it's an emotion and it's a story and it's an archetype. So, um, I, one of the most telling ones that I think will be relatable to most people is, uh, the archetype. So, um, I, one of the most telling ones that I think will be relatable to most people is, uh, the archetype.

30:56 We'll call it protector.

30:58 Imagine this like wolf that's barking, like, get away, get away, get away. So my, my parents were deeply protective, but I misunderstood that because they were protecting out of fear, and so I got the wolf bark at me right, and so I, my little baby self, my child self growing up, interpreted protector as it's going to attack me. And so, when my own protector was trying to come online in order to step into my power, I met which the protector that I had completely numbed and had been like a people pleaser. Let everyone walk all over me, kind of bitter about it, but, like God forbid, I ever stick up for myself because I don't want anyone to ever experience what I had to experience growing up.

31:44 Like all of this is unconscious, subconscious stuff. When I met and embodied my protector, I was terrified of it. It was like this wolf barking at me and I had to, I had to surrender and let it tell its story and it was like listen to me. And then it started to turn outwards and so, instead of barking at me auto, emotional autoimmune I could finally listen to it, reorient it to be able to be my dragon standing behind me, so that I can, I can walk into any room and not be afraid.

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34:01 Yeah, can I share a little personal story? I feel like that kind of it's. This helps me kind of make sense of things that I've been going through the last few years. Probably about three years ago I began to go through the most in-depth, intense forms of mental health regular mental health work personally with uh therapists, with um ketamine therapy, a lot of different things and kind of had this realization one day of a lot of realizations but why? I do a lot of the things that I do, particularly when it comes to my body, and one part is I left the military due to some injuries that have really kind of had me to rehabilitate myself in a lot of different ways. But two I realized, beyond just trying to continue my rehabilitation, I've always gravitated towards the deadlift. I've always gravitated towards just that like heavy compound? How much weight can I pick up off the ground towards just that like heavy compound? How much weight can I pick up off the ground? And now, like I'm not setting any world records, but I feel I'm pretty strong and I feel like, especially somebody who's had bilateral femur reconstructive surgery, I'm pretty strong doing okay, yeah, um, but what the work the, the, the mental health work showed me was, I was actually latching onto that form of strength because of a memory I had when my father, who was terminal, couldn't uh, my, my mom couldn't pick him up, my stepmom could pick him up to put him back in the wheelchair and I, I, I struggled.

35:26 I was this eight, 18 year old kid, 19, maybe 19, uh, just left for the military. I was gone for about like a year, came back. I feel like I'm this rough and tough soldier and I struggled so hard to pick my dad up off the ground to put him back in his wheelchair. It took me forever and help with my stepmom. And then I remember shortly after that, like immediately after that, going back up to my room, calling my best friend at the time and just just bawling my eyes out. I couldn't help him, I couldn't help her.

36:00 I'm so weak, all this stuff, and until I kind of unpacked that fucking 15, 17 years later and I realized why strength, physical strength, mattered so much and I finally was able to kind of let go of that. I really I I've lost. I've lost so much and I finally was able to kind of let go of that. I really I have lost. I've lost so much interest in that lift. I still love to do it, but I don't do it hardly anywhere close to the frequency that I used to and I've really realized like, oh, I got that emotional need taken care of, I was able to talk through it. So I kind of I share that story because I feel it's just kind of like the opposite example of what you're talking about.

36:41 - Speaker 2 Yes, first of all, thank you for sharing that story, and you know what this reminds me of. This reminds me of any of our desires and how we think there are things that deadlift is just my thing. You would have said it's my thing.

36:51 I love it. It's my thing. I just have this craving to do it. It brings me so much like bliss, but I'm curious how like actually fulfilling that was. Can you talk to me about, like how? Um, just cause I have a theory here that. I'd love to explain when you would do your deadlift. Would you ever be satisfied, like oh?

37:11 - Speaker 1 I the level, the level of pride that it gave me of, and again, not any crazy monumental weight, but up until I kind of slowed down, I was getting close to a 500 pound deadlift, which for me, I'm very, very proud of and I anybody I think, should be proud of that Um, especially after going through what I did. Um, so I I felt anytime I would pick anything over 400 pounds, I I was like I'm the fucking man.

37:34 - Speaker 2 Like I am king of the world, I'm king of the castle. Yeah, I was like I'm the fucking man I am king of the world.

37:37 - Speaker 1 I'm king of the castle. I was like yeah. I was like, yeah, fulfilled is such a really unique word, but very, very spot on.

37:43 - Speaker 2 Interesting and then it, just once you felt the emotion, it discharged it.

37:48 - Speaker 1 Once I kind of navigated, oh, I would eventually kind of realize, as I would walk up to the deadlift bar, I would get these kind of flashbacks that I would suppress because they were unsafe for me. And this is before I was really navigating that trauma. But once I kind of began to be more comfortable with going back to those memories and navigating the death of my dad, it would. It would just kind of it would always present itself. I'll walk up to the deadlift bar and I would. I would kind of be like, oh, I'm picking up dad. I will never not be able to pick up dad again.

38:16 - Speaker 2 Oh don't. We Humans are so interesting. We do that, all of us. That's the waking dream. So that is you trying desperately to process. Dad is dead and that's so hard to process, and so we outsource our inner processing to things that we do externally. I see that in sexual desire as well with kinks.

38:41 So, you see all these kinks of like I want to, I want to be a puppy, or I want to, I want to dress up in zipped up latex, or we see all of these kinks and they're all so brilliant. Actually, the human psyche is so brilliant because if I need to process something like like mommy, daddy didn't pay attention to me and I was treated like like property, or I was told to obey, we can then go back into consensually and relive that. Now, the goal of the work that I do is not necessarily to I don't, I don't, I don't treat it as a kink. It doesn't live in the BDSM world, but I take people back into scenes where they are now being brought all the way through. Mommy and daddy didn't pay attention to me or made me, be forced me to be obedient, when I don't want to be. And then we illuminate the gift of that, of how that, how that made you stronger. It's like Phoenix rise kind of.

39:44 Moment versus dwelling in the dead, the deadlift dwelling in the kink, staying there, looping in the pain and getting pleasure out of pain you were getting pleasure and deep satisfaction out of. I don't want to believe dad's dead.

39:56 - Speaker 1 So is is the deadlift my kink.

39:58 - Speaker 2 You're such a kinky deadlifter.

40:00 - Speaker 1 It's the deadlift, my kink, it's so many kinks.

40:02 - Speaker 2 Have you seen the fitness industry? It's the kinkiest stuff ever.

40:06 - Speaker 1 You are so not wrong. Wow yeah, wow Okay, all right, new kink unlocked.

40:14 - Speaker 2 Deadlift in the dungeon, let's go, but it's, we do this whether it's in the shadows or disguised as an obsession, which you know. The world glorifies fit bodies. So it seems okay, but I'm telling you, I came from the fitness world and the deep, unhealthy bodies that I saw in the name of low body fat and lifting a lot of weights, I'm like your body is not functional at all, but it looks like the cover of the magazines, because the guy in the cover of the magazines starved and dehydrated himself for three days. Like it's walking up the stairs, and so fitness is one stair step on the way to feeling your body. And so if you want to feel your body with tension of an external weight, it's okay. Like, do that until you are ready to feel the tension of the trauma that you're carrying and the stories that you're carrying.

41:11 - Speaker 1 Barring an injury. It's only going to help you.

41:13 - Speaker 2 Sure, Absolutely.

41:15 - Speaker 1 I mean to become healthier to become, stronger to become, you know, a healthier body composition.

41:19 - Speaker 2 And the body church members are living proof. So I have them. I have a few of them taking their blood work um quarterly to see, just experimentally, kind of just like a little beta test, like no way.

41:32 - Speaker 1 Okay, please tell me more. This is everyone's hormonal profile is changing and coming back into balance and, in theory, really, who knows what they're doing the rest of their life?

41:44 - Speaker 2 But like the main variable you're changing to test is Is feeling your emotions.

41:47 - Speaker 1 I got it. I got to see this test.

41:48 - Speaker 2 I'm telling you. So we have someone especially. So this started to pique my interest when I have somebody who's a trans man, who does body church and he regularly gets his hormones changed or hormones checked, and his doctor was like I don't know why your testosterone is so high right now. I don't know what's going on Like why, why there's no explanation. And he knew in his mind.

42:11 He was like cause I've been feeling my feelings associated with my fear of the masculine, you know, and and there's this, really, I mean it's so layered and complex when we get to the human psyche and gender identity and it's all such a beautiful spectrum and for him so that he was like Liz, I don't, I don't know what to tell you, but I am moving through, I am, I am creating my own testosterone as my own beautiful embodied expression of my masculine, and we all have masculine and feminine within us. So I definitely identify with what I call one kind, which is just one in yourself. So I can, I can drop into my masculine presence and hold, and, and and direct, and I can drop into my feminine presence and and and be in the wild creative expression and anyways. And so it's not just limited to gender dynamics transgender, queer, it's, it's so.

43:07 Those are all such beautiful expressions of this human desire yes, desire to express, and the gift is in expression, and so that's why there's such wisdom in people who are courageous enough to trust their authentic truth and express themselves fully.

43:26 And Body Church is a place where people who might not yet identify, like myself, I was like I don't know what I am, I don't feel like I'm trans, I don't feel like I'm gay, but I have these desires that I haven't seen expressed in anybody. So I moved my body enough and I did the body church practice enough to realize like, oh, this is me orienting to my own inner resource, masculine, my own inner resource, like wanting to protect the feminine, and and and it's, it's so, um, I've never seen it before. And so it's been really cool to invite people into this space and they're like, wow, I was thinking maybe I was queer, or I was thinking maybe I was straight and I'm not, and it's so. It's been in this really interesting soup of everyone's unique expression in, from anything from style to sexual identity and everything in between, and it's all welcome because it's just our human creative expression.

44:28 - Speaker 1 What about on the flip side? So I'm kind of hearing we're using these unique modalities in the present to help us to be more present, but to also kind of go back to and unpack our past. Uh, so that the present moment can be as safe and as in alignment as possible. Can we also use this through the lens of building our future?

44:50 - Speaker 2 Oh yeah, so what? Does that look?

44:51 - Speaker 1 like.

44:51 - Speaker 2 We're really powerful creators, and so what?

44:55 what we say, it's going to get a little esoteric, but we're good with that, yeah, what we what we say now from from this state of awareness, we have infinite number of timelines that we can create. And so, from this nervous system state, our brain is being driven, our body's being driven and our heart is being driven or covered, depending on how, how much in terror or how much in safety we are in any given moment. So I have watched as my own psyche has created stories that feel so plausible that I could follow that timeline all the way down as a creative and it would lead to a certain outcome. And then I feel a feeling I move through some sort of stuck energy and the timeline shifts and the guidance shifts. So our own internal guidance will shift depending on the frequency of our current body. Does that make sense?

45:54 - Speaker 1 I mean, I'm tracking because I've been there, but I, my role over here is to always try to put the conversation in the position of the viewer or listener.

46:05 - Speaker 2 Okay, here's an example. Here's an example. So we have this craving to deadlift, okay, and you're like I know I have to, I have to, I have to. But say right before, say we just paused right, paused you right. There You're like I'm going to go start deadlifting, I'm going to, my goal is to deadlift 500 pounds. And we just pushed pause, right. And then your higher self came in and was like what if you felt your feelings about your dad?

46:33 And so we just had this, had this like stop screen right, this little split screen of like you feeling your feelings or you not feeling your feelings, you go on, you deadlift. You know your back is feeling maybe like a little grimy a little bit. So that's the timeline where you, you, you in your physical body has nothing to do with your mind. Your physical body starts to actually embody the grief and the pain and the anger and whatever other emotions, shadows and whatnot. If we, if we start to push play on that timeline, you may never pick up that deadlift. So do you see how you're? You can shift the outcome of your future based on how courageous you are and how willing you are to embody your emotions.

47:21 - Speaker 1 One word when you're describing that comes to mind, and that's why can we boil it down to? Is it as simple as understanding why we do anything?

47:28 - Speaker 2 I mean that's so we're getting into like super esoteric, but is that too simple of a question to ask? Yeah, that in itself is a good question. I think this is like literally just what I think.

47:41 - Speaker 1 Please, please.

47:42 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I think we.

47:45 - Speaker 1 All thoughts are welcome.

47:45 - Speaker 2 We create from our vibration. You know, we are all just so water and light and sound when it comes down to it. And so we are, and we, our heart pumps electricity. Our body is a magnet, so we have electricity running through our bodies and we have this magnetic field around us, and so that magnetic field can shift and change based on the current running through our body. If we have a blind spot in our knee because that's where oh no, that's where dad lives, right that that magnetic field, just like in a battery, that magnetic field is going to change. We are literally magnetizing our life and magnetizing our future, and that's how we are such powerful creators. Does that make sense?

48:29 - Speaker 1 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I love how you explain these things, these esoteric things, and bring it back to the body, and again, it's such a testament to your foundational training of the body. Is there a way for us to if we're not already to become better in tune with the body so that we can be better in tune with the emotions, cause I feel like that might be an easier or, for someone who's maybe not at this part of the journey, more logical to start?

49:03 - Speaker 2 Yeah, please. And and I'm so here for the logical mind Trust me when I was cool. Sometimes, we love right brain equally.

49:12 Um, yeah, it starts by understanding that if our brain is afraid to feel a sensation in our bodies, there's a reason. There is usually an emotional reason for it, and so it just goes. The most easy thing to do is to slow down your breathing, slow down your movement and start experiencing the sensations of your body. That can be even just as simple as right now, like breathe slowly when you take a deep breath. Don't just breathe in slowly and notice what you notice in your body. That is step one just starting to be aware of where you are in space.

49:58 Most of us have a compass that's not tuned to the Earth's compass. It's like a little north, is like either completely upside down or a little off kilter, and so that's the metaphor I use to explain what I do every day is restore myself to my North Star and then restore my North star to whatever environment I'm in and the. I hope one day to be able to measure what's going on in the body with that intention, but I can imagine, based on what my body feels like, which is blissful flexible, clarity of mind, ability to take a deep breath, slow breath, consistently calm in the face of whatever bullshit I'm facing, that day I'm. I would love to see what happens to the magnetic field around the body and the fascial uh, the fascial lines and the light moving through the body in the fascial system based on this practice.

51:00 - Speaker 1 How would you measure bliss? Because you can measure flexibility. Yeah. You can measure a lot of things, especially when it comes to the body, but you know how do we quantify?

51:10 - Speaker 2 You know, there's a molecule called anandamine. That's a bliss molecule and I don't know much about it, or?

51:17 - Speaker 1 how it?

51:17 - Speaker 2 functions. I don't know and I don't think so. I think it's an, I think it's a. I mean, I don't want to speak to it because I don't know much about it, I just know that it exists.

51:29 - Speaker 1 Um, I feel like it's close. Sorry to cut you off, but I know cause. We naturally create DMT the brain.

51:34 - Speaker 2 Right, right.

51:34 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so I'm wondering if there's some kind of a affiliation with DMT.

51:38 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I have more questions than answers, that's for sure.

51:43 - Speaker 1 Sorry, please go ahead.

51:44 - Speaker 2 Um, I can imagine. What I'm really curious about is watching the hormonal profiles, because that is what is guiding our emotions, our thought processes. Almost every function in the body is dictated by our emotions, and I mean our DNA, rna expression. But emotion I mean sorry hormones, and so that's such an easy thing to measure, you know, um, and so anandamine, uh, hormones, and then just our traditional flexibility, you scales more of the qualitative analyses. I mean ideally it's like lasers and like like heat maps of the body. I'm like what else can we measure?

52:33 - Speaker 1 You know if there's anywhere to test stuff like that, I'm sure it's here in LA, absolutely, absolutely. I have a couple of places in mind, actually that might have like a back door somewhere, you know.

52:41 But a lot of what you talk about here I'm hearing is this concept of body language and I had a question prepared around this what is our own body language telling us? Typically, thinking of interpreting other people's body, we think when we hear body language, we think I'm going to learn how to understand your body language. What is my neighbors, my coworkers, what are these other people's body languages telling me? But I would like to pose a question of what is my body language? What is my body language telling me?

53:08 - Speaker 2 I'll speak from personal experience. My body language, our bodies are always communicating with us. My personal artistic expression actually forms words, so I can speak my body and what it has to say. That's my show, and I can speak your body and what it has to say. I can give personas to certain diseases, I can give personas to certain fears in the body. So each emotional archetype has an expression and a voice, and so that's kind of what my work is is to embody these different archetypal characters that actually show up in the physical form.

53:49 So our body language is desperately trying to communicate with us, guide us to become more in our parasympathetic bliss state, returning to real homeostasis. So we know scientifically, our bodies are constantly trying to maintain homeostasis. It's why we sweat, it's why we shiver, and so, if we go down even more deeply into that, are constantly trying to maintain homeostasis. That's why we sweat, that's why we shiver. And so if we go down even more deeply into that and we get out of basic survival, of keep heat in the body or remove excess heat from the body, we get into more of a thriving, embodied state. And that's where these higher gifts come online. You see people who can, uh, just speak freestyle poetry or have excellent um musical talents or all any of these, like I can, you know, have incredible memory. These are the higher brain states that come online when we start to fall into less of a survival.

54:50 - Speaker 3 Stress of a survival. Stress of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival. Less of a survival.

55:09 - Speaker 2 Stress of a survival stress of a survival for someone who doesn't have could offer solutions to bring this privilege to more people.

55:18 - Speaker 1 When I think body language, with most people now just observing the world, the word that comes to mind for me most is contraction. Maybe I think that's the right word. When I look in airport terminals or on sidewalks or out in public and really anywhere, I see that, yeah, I see hunched over. If we want to go back to Dr Evans days kyphosis, you know, um I, it's mostly because of this. I see people were hunched over looking at the phone, where you know where, head heads down, arms down, shoulders down on phones, on devices. It really personally drives me crazy because I feel like no one's here I know.

55:58 - Speaker 2 No one's here.

55:59 - Speaker 1 I know, I know. Do you agree what maybe would be your interpretation? Blanket statement of the general public's body language right now, what do you think that's telling the rest of the world?

56:12 - Speaker 2 of the general public's body language right now. What do you think that's telling the rest of the world? Well, attention is power, presence is power, and so we have been giving away our power and giving away our presence to whatever we think is stronger than us. If that's your emails, you're gonna give your presence away to your emails, and so the way that, yeah, a body and a mind and a spirit that is present is the most powerful thing. It is your emotional self-defense. It might be your literal self-defense and it allows you clarity. People can feel it. I can feel you here with me right now. You're being present, you're listening, and what a beautiful gift to give other people. But, yeah, that what it is, a it is a true pandemic of lack of presence and fear of the present moment, because if we are present, we have to feel we have to engage.

57:09 We have to feel and most of us are terrified of actually feeling. It's why we go on vacation and three days into it we're still trembling and trying to check our emails and we don't know how to sit. Still, because we are actually having to process everything that we have been placing out of our body Like like to put, just put on the back burner, on the shelf. We're going to deal with you later or never. And then we get a disease and you had a heart attack. You know your back goes out, you have migraines or something happens to force you back to presence. So my invitation to people is does it really going to have to take a catastrophe for you to feel and be courageous enough to slowly walk yourself up the stairs in inviting more sensation into your physical body?

57:56 - Speaker 1 I'm so glad you said the word sensation. I wanted to get to another area around sensual expression, and you kind of touched on this earlier about how sensuality is just our senses. It's finally allowing all of them to be present and to sit with them and to see. I'm kind of expanding on what you talked about, but you know, finding our comfortable, finding our comfort level with our sensuality, finding our comfort level with which types of senses we prefer and maybe in what order and to what degree, who do you think stands to benefit the most from this type of work expanding on sensual expression.

58:33 - Speaker 2 I define sensuality as cheekily, just sensing reality. I think the people who could benefit the most are the people, just the everyday people. Because when the people come together and they realize, hold on, what am I doing? Who's actually running the show here? I'm sensing reality, and this reality is distorted. And hold on, who is? Wait a second.

59:03 There are so many more of us, of the people than there are of the powers that be, and uh, which in this society society you know are the big corporations and and whatnot. I don't mean to make this political at all, it's just what I see as real for me. And the more that the people realize, hey, can we sense what's going on? Come back to our own internal compass, find our own inner resource of power, like, find our artistic expression. From a place of speaking my truth, you can feel the resonant frequency of truth.

59:38 And so if the people started speaking truth instead of speaking fear, the world would be completely different. The the all of the governing bodies, they would all have to change to be able to hold this new power that the people now have. And we have forgotten that because we're too busy worrying about whatever is on our screens and feeding ourselves whatever is convenient because we are rushing and we're not slowing down to breathe because we've been told a lie that if we slow down we will die, that we won't survive if we stop. We have to keep going like little ducks feet underwater or we will collapse.

01:00:19 - Speaker 1 Ever forward, right, ever forward. I love it. I'm in a pickle, Well damn.

01:00:29 - Speaker 2 And so, yeah, I think everyone can benefit from being more present. And then, benevolent leaders, you know, leaders who are actually speaking from their heart, not creating, using their power to create for their own ego and their own egoic needs and desires. That might be confused and they might actually think it's from their heart. But actually having leaders who are in their hearts, who can feel, oh, I am a represent, representative of the people, what do they need? Oh, they're speaking their truth from their heart. Okay, beautiful, let me interpret that and use my leadership powers to direct and have discernment. And you know, that's the ideal world to be able to have this beautiful shared leadership. But, um, there's a lot of ego happening right now and people working out of fear, survival, and, uh, I'm not sure what it will take, but I saw, I'm seeing a revolution of people moving their bodies and dancing in the streets and finally reclaiming their power and their artistic expression, and I'm so here for that movement.

01:01:34 - Speaker 1 If you could take everything we've talked about thus far and you know, also keeping in mind your work and how you help others and if you could kind of summarize it into or provide one action statement that somebody could, could do right now, today. What would it be and why, and what would the outcome of that be?

01:01:57 - Speaker 2 Yeah, Uh, take a moment to look around and appreciate this moment. And the outcome of that is a pattern disrupt that is going to invite you into presence. It's going to illuminate any shadows of like God, I hate this place, or like, oh, this is awful. That's a shadow because you are here and you're alive and this is. You know, this is just sensation. This is just your brain telling you stories. What we see with our eyes is always a lie. It's literally flipped upside down and told to our brain, but what we feel with our bodies is truth, and so it's true for you. It might not be true for everyone, but it's true for you and we need to respect that and honor that. And, yeah, slow down, take a moment for yourself. Please look around right now. Look around and observe your breath. Take a really nice, deep, slow breath and honor your body and say I'm ready to listen.

01:02:58 - Speaker 1 You know, when you think about it, pretty much most walks of life and most trains of thought about moving forward, becoming stronger, expanding the human experience, they all have the same through line of breath. And I go back to when I was learning the deadlift the best way I could, you know, keep my core tight and, yeah, you know, deep breaths, internal, hold it, keep that core integrity and so the physical self. If we're going to get physically stronger, we need to come back to the breath. We're going to become mentally and emotionally stronger, we need to come back to the breath. There's, there's gotta be something to it, right?

01:03:38 - Speaker 2 Well, yeah, it's called inspiration for a reason it's spirit. You know, we're in. We're when we breathe in we become, and when we exhale we release. And so I say, every breath is a bloom and a death. And so if you have tension in your inhale, some part of you is afraid to become whatever you're you're guided to become in this moment. And if you exhale fully, pushing all of your air out, the resistance you feel in the exhale is a measure, it's a clue as to where you're afraid to surrender.

01:04:08 - Speaker 1 What's something maybe recently you have exhaled. You're afraid to surrender Was something.

01:04:10 - Speaker 2 maybe recently you have excelled, oh gosh. You know, as I was developing this show, I created a persona I called Ananda, which means bliss in Sanskrit, and she was so cheeky and fierce and historically I was like a good church girl, you know.

01:04:29 And so it was like this cheeky, fierce, like very sexual, like trickstery, kind of like I would roast people, and it felt, it made me feel so alive because this expression was finally coming through and I put on a number of performances as Ananda. That's how I introduced myself and December, new Year's Eve, actually An ananda was like I need you to let me go and I was like what, like?

01:04:57 like no more ananda shows no more ananda, shows you need to let me die. And I was like, but this I feel the most alive with you. Like why do I have to? Like rip ananda? Like of course everything good gets taken away? So, but I'm in the practice of surrendering. So I was like okay, and I fully exhaled her and I felt at the very end of my exhale this like little stubborn, like my body tensed up and I was shaking. And then I fully exhaled into the reality of no more Ananda.

01:05:29 And then, as I breathed in, this higher poetic expression came through. That was an integrated ferocity and beauty. And so it wasn't just the shadow speaking on itself, it was now integrated into my body. So we're all so afraid to let go of the thing that is great, and most of us stop at great and we never get to see excellence or genius. And so I have just surrendered my creations enough, I'm not afraid to let them die, and it starts to evolve into greater excellence and genius expressions. And so and it'll trick you, because you think it's the best thing you've ever done, and I've done this so much that I'm like we say that about all the best things.

01:06:12 - Speaker 1 This was my best episode, this was my best piece of work, this was my best relationship. Yeah, and now like all that shit.

01:06:17 - Speaker 2 Yeah, we always think we're so afraid. That's why most of us stay in toxic relationships.

01:06:21 - Speaker 1 This is the best that's going to get we stay in the job that we hate forever because we feel like we can't get anything better. We never step out on our own. We never move across town, move across country. That's right, and I'm just kind of telling my story, yeah it was the same in most people's.

01:06:35 - Speaker 2 And so what if you could practice it in a safe place? It's your breath. If you just exhale all the way, you push the breath out and you allow your body to express whatever emotions are there. It's a technique we teach at Body Church, but you're going to start to have the embodied sense of what it's like to let things go. You'll stop being so afraid of it and you'll realize wow, once I let that go, I actually get to be filled up with new, with more of me, with more of my passions, with more of who I am.

01:07:04 - Speaker 1 So true, it's so true.

01:07:06 - Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just been so, so interesting because we really believe, I mean it's, it's, it's a sacrifice. I have to kill this in order to integrate it into this, its highest expression, and we see that honestly. We see that story, that parable, playing out in a lot of religions too. You know, christ on the cross. I got to kill my only beloved thing in order to become this elevated expression thing, in order to become this elevated expression, and so it's just, it's just some, it's a universal knowing of just exhale, let it go, and then I promise you, like, the joy of that next breath is going to be so blissful.

01:07:42 - Speaker 1 It's funny, the thing about universal truths, right? If we all collectively believe they're, they're the truth, and why are they the things that we usually don't do as often as we should?

01:07:52 - Speaker 2 Because it hurts.

01:07:53 - Speaker 1 It's yucky. Yeah Well, I feel like kind of. What you just described really brings me to my last question is a way to challenge the way that we think, to challenge the way that we have been living, so that we can learn how to finally and fully think for ourselves?

01:08:10 and then ultimately live the life that we want, and we can choose to keep doing this every day. It is a choice to keep moving us forward. That's kind of what I took away. But my last question for everybody is when you hear those two words ever forward what do? They mean to you. If I were to ask you, Liz, what does it mean to you to live a life ever forward?

01:08:41 - Speaker 2 What would you say? I would say I create from the present. So I'm constantly creating forward. I'm constantly creating, for I'm creating the stone that my foot will step on. I am no longer looking back and and creating and looping and recreating and recreating this past as history repeating itself like falsity that we've been so indoctrinated into. Instead, I am creating ever forward by by witnessing myself in the present.

01:09:07 - Speaker 1 Shit. How often are we looking for the stepping stone to move us forward? But we are. We are the stone, we create the stone.

01:09:17 - Speaker 2 It's so true, it's so true.

01:09:20 - Speaker 1 I've thoroughly enjoyed sitting down with you. Um, not just for the alma mater. Go, rams go but, uh, but just your um, your presence, your being the work that you're doing is very intriguing to me and sparks up curiosity and creativity. But what I love most about what you do is to now be in your presence and to have you talk about it and to see the way that you light up about it.

01:09:45 And ultimately, that is what I love the most, and having people here on the show is just what do you do and why do you love it so much? And then just talk to me about it, because I mean, what you're doing is allowing your story to continue, but also like you were being a champion for other people to kind of figure that out themselves.

01:10:04 - Speaker 2 That's right. That's right, and thank you for offering such a beautiful, curious present space for all of this to come through.

01:10:13 - Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you. Well, where can my audience go to connect with you? We talked about body church.

01:10:16 - Speaker 4 What is, what is that? Where can they learn about it? Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it. Maybe even catch a show about it.

01:10:47 - Speaker 2 Maybe even catch a show about it. If you feel really called to reach out, I'm here for you. You can find my email on any of the websites.

01:10:52 - Speaker 1 We'll have it all linked down in the show notes and video notes for you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Check out Liz's work. If you're watching the video, this is my part where I humbly ask smash that thumbs up button subscribe to get great, more incredible guests like Liz. So thank you.

01:11:06 - Speaker 2 Thank you.

01:11:15 - Speaker 1 For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com.