0:00:00 - Speaker 1 Welcome back to the show. I should say you know, Juliet, it's your first time here, but I was sharing with you all. The first time we met was BC few years ago up in, up in Tahoe for the Spartan World events. Kelly and I sat down for, I'll say, a mini episode. I think I snagged it in between you running a muck on the mountain. So welcome back, man.

0:00:20 - Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having us. Always nice to see you.

0:00:23 - Speaker 3 Yeah even if we're not outside freezing on the patio.

0:00:27 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what that's cold therapy, though? Right, we can podcast and cold therapy, that's right, exactly Right.

0:00:33 - Speaker 2 Yeah, people have done the sauna and podcast, but I don't know that anyone's done like the cold therapy and podcasts. Maybe that's the next trend it's like a one minute podcast.

0:00:41 - Speaker 1 It's just going to be bite sized, bites, bite sized bites. Absolutely.

0:00:45 - Speaker 2 Still.

0:00:46 - Speaker 1 I see people in the sauna doing this stuff and you know I not to get up on a tangent too soon, but I feel like we have taking biohacking and optimization a bit too far. If we can't step into a sauna and not capture the entire experience, first and foremost, maybe we need help, but also I worry about the equipment man. This stuff wasn't meant to sustain that temperature for that long.

0:01:09 - Speaker 2 Yeah well, our good friend Gabby ran a podcast out of her sauna called the truth barrel for many years. I don't know if you ever came across that.

0:01:17 - Speaker 1 Remember hers, and Eric Hinman does it, and a few other guys, yeah.

0:01:21 - Speaker 2 But we thought, um, one of the stories we loved is that, you know, gabby could withstand an hour and Neil too like an hour of time, but slowly but surely, the guests would start to melt and by the end of every episode the guests would be sitting on the floor of the podcast, you know, in order to survive the experience. And so, yeah, I mean there's definitely some perils to running a podcast inside a sauna you know, I think GoPro got the uh, the video content covered.

0:01:45 - Speaker 1 I'm pretty sure they can handle it. But hey, here's a new niche market. If you're a podcast manufacturer for equipment, if you can make a high extreme temperature with standing equipment, you can really niche down in your I mean, there are there.

0:01:56 - Speaker 3 we like to say in what the one of those ideas that's worth tens of dollars, tens of dollars.

0:02:03 - Speaker 1 So true, but you know, hey, speaking of what something is worth in tens of dollars, you know, in terms of financial longevity, but human longevity, I love you all as new focus in the book built to move, the 10 essential habits to help you move freely and live fully.

This is something that I think, personally, I have seen come across my desk for a while now. It's also something that I've been personally interested in progressing towards. You know, kind of having my standards, and I think a lot of us in the health and fitness wellness community, whether we're a professional or someone just pursuing it for ourselves, we kind of have our standard right. We were holding our standard, as I was saying earlier, but we're losing a lot of people. We're leaving a lot of people in the dust because it has become this thing. That is, you know, if you're not biohacking all the things, if you're not cold plunging 25 times a day, if you're not doing all these things, then you know we're kind of leaving you behind. But I love this new approach. You guys have just fundamentals, reminding us of the fundamentals that every human can do, some extreme humans are doing, but ultimately we all can come together on because it's going to serve us for health span and lifespan, right yeah.

0:03:09 - Speaker 2 And I think you've really hit on what motivated us to write this book in the first place. You know, look, kelly and I love the sort of we're fans of. We've been part of the biohacking movement for a long time. We think biohacking has done a lot to advance a lot in our space Democratize a lot right.

Yeah, we love our cold plunging our sauna, and you know we love a gadget. You know we both sleep on chili pads, and you know I have sort of optimized our sleep in all these cool ways, and we're both wearing an aura ring, and you know the list goes on and on of the sort of hacks that we've applied to our own lives, but over the years.

You know, after owning a commercial gym for 16 years and living in a community of people who are not self-described for health and fitness wellness enthusiasts it became really obvious that man, we lost the forest through the trees in some really important ways in the space and we were doing a horrible job of sort of bringing people into this big tent that is health and wellness and fitness and making it accessible to people and man. It's like you know, we love the you said standards and fundamentals and I think the phrase that we love or the word we love is base camp and I think that comes from our lifelong obsession with all things Everest, for whatever reason.

0:04:27 - Speaker 3 Kelly and.

0:04:27 - Speaker 2 I are consumers of all Everest documentaries and books, and so I think that's a word that speaks to us, but I think you said it well. I mean, I think, for those people who haven't been welcomed into this conversation we just want to get them to base camp and for all the people who you know are interested in biohacking and taking it to the next level we've seen those people have actually forgotten the fundamentals. So you know, we have so many people in our space who will come and see Kelly for back pain and they're like look, I'm, you know, sonning five days a week, and then Kelly looks under the hood a little bit and learns that they haven't slept and eaten a vegetable anytime recently and they forgot to walk. They're essentially sedentary, and you know, and so so we felt like, you know, base camp was where everybody. You know, for a lot of people they just need to get to base camp and for the people who've skipped over base camp, they need to make sure they're coming back to base camp before they layer on these other biohacks.

0:05:20 - Speaker 3 And I would say that one of the things that's useful that we can take from this lack of a better word biohacking experimental communities, that they became really clear and keen on measuring things and I think we used to just apply a whole lot of subjectivity to our strength, conditioning, exercising this feels good Check.

But one of the things that Julia hinted at was that you know, we've tried to create 10 vital signs and these are all objective measures. We can actually create minimums, sort of red, yellow, green for people, and that really takes. And again, some of that's based on our experience, but all of the things that we experience in choosing these things, but all these tests actually have good scientific evidence, space literature to back it up. The other thing is that you know, as we, you know again, garner that biohacking model of measuring. If we take any third party validation of how our trillion dollar industry is serving our communities, we're not very well and I would actually give us a all really a feeling great. And if we had to kind of confront the internet of exercise and just say, okay, well, let's go into your neighborhood and then let's us see if this data is holding true.

We would see that we are fatter and more depressed and have more pain and more substance abuse, and we see more ACL injury rates and more chronic surgeries. And I mean check the box on literally anything diabetes, anything you care about in terms of your family and I don't mean to mean you and your nerd exercise friends like Juliette and I. I'm talking about our greater family around and what you have to ask is is this working? Is this working? Because currently, what we don't necessarily seem to be getting traction with our current model and what we've, I think we're seeing on the internet, is how do we become slicker faster, you know, and pour more gas on this fire, and yet the results aren't really speaking for themselves.

0:07:18 - Speaker 1 You know what I see you all talk a lot about, at least now, forgive me if this has always been in your vernacular but the word durability. You talk durability and I haven't heard this particular word floated around as much when discussing a lot of the things that you all are talking about, a lot of things that I think people are hearing and seeing, maybe even practicing right now. We're talking optimization, we're talking resiliency, we're talking, you know, biohacking. I think your choice of durability puts a different spin on it. What do you mean by making a more durable human?

0:07:54 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and we really relate to that word, I think we don't love. Yeah, we're old, we don't love the word longevity because, to us, living forever and having the last back half of our life be sitting in a skilled nursing facility or not being able to move our bodies doesn't appeal to us at all. Like we, a number doesn't matter. We're not shooting to make it to 100. What we're shooting to do as individuals is feel good in our bodies and in our mind as long as we can.

0:08:24 - Speaker 3 With some capacity to take the hits.

0:08:26 - Speaker 2 With some capacity to take the hits, and I think that's a key thing, right, because the other word that's floated around in our community is health span, and that word is just kind of okay to me and I understand the meaning and I think it's closer to what we're talking about. But, you know, kelly and I have both had some, you know, challenges. Kelly had a catastrophic ski accident and had to have his knee replaced a few years ago. I was unlucky enough to get breast cancer in 2018, and you know, but we both were able to bounce back from those things, not because we are superheroes or genetic freaks or anything. It's because we went into it with what we describe as durable bodies. Right, we were well rested, we had some muscle mass. You know, we prioritized eating protein in fruits and vegetables. We moved our bodies a lot. We really like leaned into these really basic things before something bad happened to us, and so when it did, we were much better able to weather that.

And the reality is is, you know people are gonna take the hits, right, I mean, and it doesn't necessarily need to be a knee replacement or cancer or a health problem, but you know you might lose a loved one and go through a period of grief or have an extreme period of, you know, work, stress in your life. But what we know as part of the human condition is you know you're gonna take some hits as a human we all are, it's a universal. And so what we've tried to do in our lives, and then you know, expand upon in this book, is how do you make a durable body that can be ready to take the stress and you know the unlucky events that happen to us in our lives and to us. That's why durability is. You know we just wanna have these durable carcasses that we're cruising around in, so that we're ready Durable carcass TM.

0:10:09 - Speaker 3 That's my new heavy metal alt band, you know, and also just to not take it on such a heavy note.

0:10:14 - Speaker 2 the other reason we wanna have a durable body is that we love to recreate and play outside, and you know to us a durable body.

0:10:20 - Speaker 1 You actually enjoy living life.

0:10:22 - Speaker 2 Yes, a durable body allows us to do those things Like. One example I'll give you is that we love to ski and we have so many friends who ski and they come home and they're like catastrophically sore after a day of skiing and Kelly and I are like what, how are you sore? Like? For us, skiing's like a recreational activity and you know, certainly we work hard and whatever, but we basically wanna have a body that's strong enough and durable enough to be able to get up off the couch and go skiing if we haven't skied in six months.

0:10:50 - Speaker 3 And not worry about it.

0:10:51 - Speaker 2 And not worry about it and know that our body can take the hit. And you know, same with mountain biking and a bunch of the other outdoor pursuits we have.

0:10:59 - Speaker 3 Julie has an analogy that I really like is, if we think about sort of our teens, early 20s, we have a pretty big movement hallway and when we say hallway, we have a lot of movement choice. We can do a lot of crazy things with our bodies. We have a bunch of latent capacity and you can solve unique problems and have a lot of flexibility. Once the patina of age starts to catch up, that hallway potentially gets narrower for people, right when, by the way, you're no longer like critically poor, right when you actually may have a little extra time, and actually we're working with a professional basketball player.

He's 33. He wants to extend his time in the league, and it turns out he's really a good basketball player, and he's been playing pro for 11 years, and, if we can give like, he's at the peak of his power, so he's really a good basketball player, and so if we can get him a few more years by taking care of his body, his brain, his family, suddenly that means that it opens up a whole lot of choices for him. So what we tend to see for the average person, though, is that we get a little bit older, we gather some injuries, we gather some disease, something bad happens and our movement hallway becomes really narrow, and suddenly we don't feel like we can get up and down off the ground with our kids or our grandkids, we can't ride a bike, and the recreation idea and I don't mean recreate, in quotation marks, I mean what do you do for your hobbies? How do you interact in your community? What's important to you?

That stuff starts to be restricted, and the problem is, if we wait until you're 60 or 70 to deal with your bony, your bone density or your lack of ankle range of motion or your poor balance, that's the wrong time to be starting to put this in and look, some people just don't come to consciousness until that point. But we can think differently about these sets of behaviors that allow us to maintain our movement, freedom and choice, and doing so in a painful way. And we can start to say, as Julie and I figured out, this has to happen at the functional unit of the household. This is you and your family, your friends that you live together and cohabitate with. That's the functional unit of change, not the gym, not the doctor's office, not the physio office. You've got to be able to do these things consistently over a long period of time in your home.

0:13:14 - Speaker 1 You know what first comes to mind for me when you guys were talking about that. Where I really want to take the listener right now is think about the first time. Maybe you can remember getting the flu or getting COVID or getting sick in any way, any kind of viral infection, even bacterial, more so viral you get it again. More likely than not it's not going to be as severe. Why? Because your body has experienced it before. Your immune system, hopefully, has been boosted and you have these antibodies and you're more durable. You have more resiliency to take that on. Same thing is true for pretty much everybody. You suffer a broken bone. What happens after it heals properly? It's actually stronger at that injury site than before.

And my audience has heard my backstory with all this many, many times. But I can tell you absolutely, as someone who has gone through femoral reconstructive surgeries in both of his hips at 22, 23, now being 37, I still got my days. I need to throttle a little bit more, but I can tell you right now that is definitely a strong point for me right now, Physically, but also the mental aspect and the mind-body connection here is so crucial when we're talking about durability. We have to do the things to get the body to that standard, but it's going to be, I think, not as fruitful if we're not also connecting the mind to hey. Look at my capacity, look at what I can do, look at what I have gone through, and therefore let me manipulate things so that I can go again.

0:14:45 - Speaker 2 for as long as possible we're seeing. I mean, I would just add that I think sometimes we forget how connected our health is to our happiness.

It's so connected and I think what we've tried to take an even step farther is hoping that people make the connection between their happiness and their movement, health in particular. Because one story I'd like to tell is we have a friend who's a financial advisor and people meet with him about their retirement planning and how much money they're going to need and what they're doing, and he doesn't talk to them about the money for most of the appointment. He spends most of their appointments talking with them about what they want to do physically with their bodies when they have time and when they retire. And so clearly that ability to move through our environment is so connected to our happiness and joy and the things we look forward to. And you're so right, it's just those two things. You can't have one without the other.

0:15:42 - Speaker 3 The other thing that I think it's really worth talking about for people is Jill and I aren't neglecting the top, we're not neglecting the brain. So much of what the view that we want to take.

0:15:54 - Speaker 1 if you look at the blue zones, and that sort of blue zone concept is all over the world. That's right.

0:16:00 - Speaker 3 Where are people living a long time. They have tight social connections and they tend to have multi-generational families. They have really tight connections in their communities and so Jill and I are saying, hey, the foundation of that is moving so that you can go by groceries and interact with your neighbors and walk around and know the pet, the neighbor's dog Really seems like low-level things. But ultimately, how do I interact, how do I maintain my role in society, my role in family, my role in sports, the things that I do to recreate, and that psycho-emotional health component is a big piece of that.

I've worked in the hospital People sometimes forget I'm a physical therapist and what I saw was that when people fractured a hip or moved towards the end of life, their hallway got real small and the room they were in, even as a metaphor, got smaller and smaller and pretty soon it's a windowless room with curtain drawn and the last days are in a really isolated, terrible environment, which is really the anathema and just the antithesis of what we're saying is how do we maintain this sort of movement option?

The other thing that we can do besides just talking about psycho-emotional health a member of a community, a member of my family, et cetera but we see that a lot of people are struggling with mental health right now. We're in a mental health crisis, for youth, for example. We're seeing just a lot of kids needing support and one of the things that we want everyone to know one of our best friends is finishing up her doctoral degree in psych. She's a two-time Olympic champion and she's saying, hey, it's really great that we have all these top-down approaches that we're doing In this behavioral cognitive model, that we have these drugs to support it, but we're layering that sophistication on top of behaviors that create a sort of disbalance.

0:17:46 - Speaker 2 And.

0:17:46 - Speaker 3 I'm not saying that just eating fruits will solve your problem, but what people fail to appreciate is that all of these systems of the body are interacting and that if I don't walk enough, if I don't sleep enough, if I don't eat and fuel the correct way, if I don't have access to this, I'm dealing with chronic pain man. It really starts to influence upstream too. So, yes, we're very much aware that this top-down approach meditation, mindfulness, breath work, all those things are important, but you've got to realize how much impact the bottom up can have on your psychosocial, emotional health.

0:18:22 - Speaker 1 I've hit on that many times before. It's so great to hear you all talk about that as well, this reminder that our bodies, internally and externally, are nothing more than a compounding group of systems. These systems work independently. Thank God, many of them work automatically in the background. We don't have to consciously think to run them, to breathe, to pump blood, to oxygenate.

0:18:46 - Speaker 3 I've got an Instagram to be on. I can't be thinking about that, true.

0:18:50 - Speaker 1 But I think that's to tie it back to our point originally of a lot of us are really getting locked into the tree instead of the forest kind of thing. We forget that we can biohack something, we can focus on something right here, right now. Are we compounding it? Are we adding it on top of all of the other amazing things that we have done for our bodies, for our minds, all the other choices we have made to increase our standard, to increase our wellness, to bounce back from injury? It's not a one or the other. It might be a priority, it might be a focus, but it cannot be either or.

0:19:26 - Speaker 3 And counting on that, that people will go through their aspects of their life. We just were visited at our office by one of our friends who has an eight month old and we're like how's it going? She's like it's so gnarly having a baby. You know, your sleep is disrupted, your training is disrupted, your nutrition is disrupted.

0:19:42 - Speaker 2 It's really hard.

0:19:44 - Speaker 3 And what we want to remind people is that's okay, you're durable and you have a lot of extra capacity, but that can't be a 10 month binger of low, I'm just comfort eating.

And by giving people clear benchmarks, clear objective, vital signs, that allows us to come dip below during periods of stress or jumping on a red eye or big work deadline or something happens and then you have to think, hey, I've got to come back up. The same way, I might look at my blood pressure. There are times where my blood pressure you know, 120 or 80 isn't great blood pressure. It's just a benchmark where we say, hey, let's start paying attention. And suddenly, when we empower people to have sort of some vital signs around their functioning and things that for most people end up being blind spots, like their hip range of motion, like their ability to put their arm over the head, like their ability to take a big breath, some of these sort of hidden aspects, we see that people can come back up and they're clever enough to integrate them back into their lives if we give them the right tools.

0:20:40 - Speaker 1 You know in your work. I've heard you talk about how the secret to a long life is a chair. What is the correlation between this chair test that you know for a lot of us doesn't come until end of life and longevity that we need to be thinking about now even more so? Durability we need to be thinking about right now.

0:20:59 - Speaker 2 And by the chair do you mean our sit and rise test? What is that our sit and rise test? Yeah, so we open the book with this test. It's called the sit and rise test, based on some research done in Brazil that shows that people who can get up and down off the ground without putting a knee or hand down have better overall longevity and better all cause mortality than people who cannot perform this test.

0:21:26 - Speaker 3 And little and you've done that a hundred thousand times. You were a child, you were a kid and you got up and down Chris Cross, applesauce, yeah, every time you know, you went to story time in elementary school.

0:21:34 - Speaker 2 You practiced the sit and rise test, right.

But as adults Hold your cups of juice and your little crackers as adults, because our environment isn't set up to be sitting on the ground and you know most of us don't want to be like the weirdo who throws our couch out and just has floor sitting furniture in our living room. You know we want to like live in the society we're in. You know it's just not a skill we practice that much. But what we love about this test is it ultimately gives people a really quick and easy idea of how their hip range of motion is doing and it and maybe for the first time makes them care a little bit about it, right when they're not able to perform this test and maybe they understand that.

you know the number one way people end up in a nursing home is they can't get up and down off the ground. I think they have a little bit of a revelation. But what we also love about this test is you can improve on it. I mean, when I first started trying this test, I couldn't do it and I really doubled down on spending time- you were only a three-time world champion too.

0:22:27 - Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly, I mean, I have a, you know it wasn't a strength or coordination issue. Right, it was just that, I was my hips my hips were stiff and it was exposure.

0:22:35 - Speaker 2 I wasn't spending time. So one of the things we love about this test is the way to get better at doing. It is to sit on the floor while you watch TV, or sit on the floor while you work on your laptop. What if you're lucky enough to work from home and just kind of noodle around working on your hip range of motion and then the side benefit is in order to sit on the floor? You've actually yet again practice the test because you have to get down to the floor to sit on the floor and then get back up again whenever you're done sitting on the floor.

So you know the practice is the test and the test is the practice, and then you know the way to get better at it is to do something we know everybody's already doing, because the research shows that all Americans are watching between one and three hours of TV a day, and we know if you're not on a TV, you're on your phone. So there's we know there's a time and place where people can fit in some floor sitting and it's really transformative in just the ability to perform this test and actually improve your hip range of motion and here's why you should care.

0:23:33 - Speaker 3 One of the things Juliette just slid in there was that if you can't do this, it's the first time you are maybe confronted with the fact that your ability to move, your range of motion, is limiting a skill. We have been spending the last 20 years of our professional lives trying to get people to give a crap about the range of motion.

0:23:53 - Speaker 1 Guess what.

0:23:55 - Speaker 3 Mixed results. Like I'm like, really you should be able to do what every human body should be able to do, and people are like yeah it's gonna be pain, I still I was faster than you, faster than you.

So meanwhile, what we start to see is that if we don't keep an eye on these range minimums and are confronted with hey, I can't put my arms over the head, my swimming is going slower we really need to give people reasons to experience why they should do this, otherwise you just wait around to get hip replaced. You know? I mean, really I don't know what happened, I don't know either. Well, it just turns out that using your hip in a bigger range of motion is one way to kind of continually load those tissues of the joint capsule, of the joint surfaces, so that we can maintain that range. It's just very much a wolf's law, which is originally about the bone use it or lose it phenomenon, and one of the things that we want people to understand is that there's a lot of hidden capacity.

We aren't playing defense in this book. This book isn't about defense. This book is about not lying to yourself about the fact that you think you're killing it. But Juliette and I are like you've got 30% more to give. And let me give you an example. In some of our running cycling communities, elite running, elite cycling started sitting on the ground and they were all like what the hell?

my time trial improved and my wattage improved and they're like what happened and someone's like well, you know you, bringing your knee to your chest more efficiently makes it so you can pedal more effectively in an aero position. And people are like. All I had to do was sit on the ground. Yes, exposure is the first order of magnitude. So when we're talking with people, especially around sleep, you know the brain has this remarkable capacity to lie to you.

That if you get four hours of sleep, you show up the next day. You're like killing it. I feel so good, I'm a little sleepy, but you think you're nailing it.

But you're not nailing it, I've asked for much else Every cognitive test is declined, decreased your speed, your decision making, your choices, your impulse, your brain is like you got this. And what a great survival strategy. Cause if you ever had a child and you woke up the next day and you were like my life's over, I only slept four hours. I'm just, I'm terrible at the world the world would end right. We would have one generation of people and then parents would give up, but instead your brain is like you got this. So when we get people to reorganize and it takes a minute to rethink their sleep, based on the research, based on the data, based on not lies of the caffeine and alcohol you're drinking, lo and behold, they actually feel better. Go faster, get more work done, show up for their families more effectively. In the world we work sometimes that means world championships, that means league championships, that means world records all because we take care of these little basics that sometimes limit our total capacity.

0:26:39 - Speaker 2 Well, and Kelly and I sometimes don't agree on the offense versus defense because they do think there's some important defense strategies in here. You know a lot of the range of motion. You know things we recommend, like squatting, for example. You know, if you look at cultures that sleep on the floor, toilet on the floor, get up and down off the floor, you know practice squatting on the regular, they actually load those tissues in their hips. They have far fewer I mean I'm talking 90% fewer incidences of things like low back pain, joint replacements and overall orthopedic injuries Wow, that's remarkable.

0:27:15 - Speaker 3 And fall risk drops to zero.

0:27:16 - Speaker 2 Fall risk drops to zero. So, yes, you know, oftentimes when we're speaking to younger and more athletic audiences, you know we wanna say, hey, this isn't just about not getting injured and this isn't just about not dying young and ending up in a nursing home, because you know it is about performance and those things that Kelly talked about. It does make a difference for those things. But Thanks, babe, but it also is. You know it also. I hate to say it, but you know people need to start thinking about the longterm a little bit and maybe touching some corners so that they don't end up calling Kelly or sending. You know we get on the regular emails from people that are like 20 paragraphs long about their pain journeys.

Every day Pain journeys.

they have seen, you know, spent all their money seeing every physician, every chiropractor, everyone you know, healers, spiritual healers, I mean you name it because being in chronic pain is gnarly and people will do anything to get out of chronic pain and you know, and I'm not saying every instance of chronic pain can be solved by having range of motion at all, but I'm saying I bet in a lot of those cases those people wish they could rewind and start to put some input into their bodies earlier and younger, so that they did not end up in a chronic pain situation.

0:28:36 - Speaker 3 Let's take range of motion and add it as we're returning native capacity, just like sleep is at ad's capacity or fueling ads capacity. That shouldn't be radical ideas, but one of the things that we saw was that we were starting to see a collection of behaviors that were the key to winning world championships sleep fueling, walking, sort of some of these things.

0:28:58 - Speaker 1 Isn't that a beautiful thing about? When we look at success, it leaves us all these little crumbs. If we just pay attention, we can just grab them.

0:29:05 - Speaker 3 You're really hitting it. Juliette and I work along. You know we're not yes, we are members of, like, our local community. We have a couple of daughters, we work in front of our computers. We're just average mortal bodies. Maybe Juliette's not, but I am.

0:29:19 - Speaker 1 Moms are always immortal right.

0:29:20 - Speaker 3 We simultaneously, we get to work in and alongside real mutants, and so what we know is what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and we tend to adopt practices in skills that scale up and scale down. We're not interested in taking one person and having them win a world championship at the cost of everything. We're also saying well, what are the behaviors here that I could apply to my children? And so when we start to, you know, expand those basic behaviors, we create vital signs and again, small hinges open the big doors. Suddenly, we're like why don't we have movement, vital signs? And they didn't exist.

And so in this book, what we've tried to do is for the typical person to say hey, here are some minimums and some things you should be able to do with your body cold. These are easy tests, and if you struggle with these, it's because you've really taken your eye off the ball or the things that you're doing aren't supporting maintaining your range. The same way as if like hey, I'm just smashing all this beer and pizza, why am I getting all fat and sleeping like crap? You're like well, the diet you're choosing to feel with isn't supporting your body and the way you would like. Same thing we can make the case for around your movement and your movement health.

0:30:31 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that's one thing I definitely wanted to bring up, because I know that you all work with a lot of professional athletes. You even worked with some elite special forces groups such as the Navy SEALs. You work with Olympians. Now, when we look at this group of people, I think it's pretty easy for us to go. They're freaks of nature. They're genetically predisposed. They have all the time and the resources in the world. No wonder they're performing so well and recovering so well and so resilient or durable. To your point. I'm curious what is the most or a common through line that you all have found with such high performers like these, that they're seeking in terms of I want this to be better, or this is a thing, a commonality we're all working on. That you think has the most relatability to us everyday people, to the everyday person, everyday mom, dad, just a person trying to just be better.

0:31:23 - Speaker 2 I think you want to go ahead. I would say.

0:31:25 - Speaker 3 The first thing is that all of these people you described just want to be less gross for their families. That's one we've been up.

0:31:31 - Speaker 1 We can relate. I think we can all relate I totally less gross is a really good goal.

0:31:37 - Speaker 3 One of the things that everyone should know is that all the elite performers that we work with and again choose a sport, choose and league all blacks, the NBA, the Warriors, the Niners we see so much dirty laundry but those people are just trying to do their job and come home intact and that's not actually that different than Juliette and I and what. It's just crazy what they do. Their bodies have more tolerance for silliness and abuse than we do. That's what I'll say. They have to high genetic drive to move. They have incredible heart rate variability. Genetically they can just handle freakish volumes of work and continue to get better.

They can handle pressure, but ultimately they all struggle with the same things, believe it or not, and sleep is one of the biggest things that this group struggles with. We talked to a lot of athletes who come after a big game I'm talking about NBA, nhl, right, Something like that and they actually can't go to sleep for many, many, many hours. And they know if I can't sleep, I go to bed at four in the morning. I'm doomed for the next couple days, right?

0:32:40 - Speaker 1 So they start to recover, can't train, can't perform.

0:32:42 - Speaker 3 Yeah right, the same thing is true with all our athletes who travel, that the sleep deprivation, the time change is as gnarly as any other thing. It can matter in terms of your life and if you're a warfighter, and let me tell you, an experience that I think that we're not having a good conversation about. We really think in the research supports, and this is research driven. Just Google how much sleep does an adult need, and what you'll see is the NIH sports foundation.

Mayo Clinic everyone is says seven to eight hours. So that is sort of unequivocally what the research says and what every institution on the planet says yeah, I'd say that's kind of common knowledge.

0:33:24 - Speaker 1 Right now you pull anybody on the screen. Well, can I tell a quick story? Can I tell a quick story?

0:33:28 - Speaker 2 about this. So we thought it was common knowledge because, you know, when we wrote this book, there are a couple places where we're like okay, where in this book are we going to step on a rake? Like, where are people going to?

0:33:38 - Speaker 3 you know, take us down on the internet Same eating fruits. Right, that's what we kill us.

0:33:41 - Speaker 2 And we actually thought it would be our protein recommendations. Right, Because we recommend which is what is 0.7 to one gram per pound of body weight. Now for those people in the fitness community. It's really reasonable, that's not crazy, it's super reasonable for those of us that are in this community. But we thought, okay, for people you know, most people we know are really the eating like 0.2 grams per pound of body weight.

0:34:02 - Speaker 3 Right, they're not getting enough protein.

0:34:05 - Speaker 2 But we did not think that the sleep chapter would trigger people or cause alarm bells to ring, and we had a really interesting experience recently. Kelly was on a podcast. That's a bit outside the health and fitness space, right, it's sort of a step away. So it's not our normal, typical community of people who are used to consuming this content, and I think those of us who are in this good.

everybody needs this information, yeah we've long accepted that seven to eight hours is what you need and that there's only if you want to go fast, get out of chronic pain or grow a body or championship.

0:34:38 - Speaker 3 It's not like nutrition.

0:34:39 - Speaker 2 You know reasonable minds can differ about nutrition to this day because the research is difficult to do and you know not everybody agrees. Reasonable minds can differ there. But reasonable minds don't differ on the sleep thing. It's not really up for debate in any real way Walker 101.

So Kelly goes on this podcast and we put a clip of it, a 15 second clip on our Instagram, where Kelly says you know, if you want to grow muscle, you know, recover, recover from surgery he sort of goes through this laundry list you need to sleep seven or eight hours. Well, this thing now is going on like what? Two or three million views on Instagram? It has like 20,000 comments and let me tell you 15,000 of them are are like people who are bummed and feel triggered by Kelly suggesting that they should sleep seven or eight hours, so unobtainable.

Yes, and that their identity is connected to four to five hours of sleep. And how dare he suggest that?

0:35:34 - Speaker 3 hustlers, sleep. Don't sleep because you're on the grind. How could you?

0:35:38 - Speaker 2 what we thought, what the takeaway for us from this little mini experiment of posting this video was that, you know, I think we are often in our community and speaking into an echo chamber and we are not again. It's just it reinforced to us this idea that, man, we've got to start stepping out, and Kelly and I have been trying our darned us to, you know, speak to communities that are outside of our this health, fitness, wellness, well-being community that we're all in, because, man, we're speaking to an echo chamber. We think we've all like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course, seven, eight hours of sleep, yeah, yeah, everybody knows that Turns out, everybody does not know that.

0:36:15 - Speaker 3 No, like the comments are like or allies Garmin lies.

0:36:20 - Speaker 2 It's it's.

0:36:21 - Speaker 3 they're lying to us, you know yeah, they got to sell devices.

0:36:25 - Speaker 2 Whoop is no, they don't know, so it was it was really eye opening for us, I'll say on the sleep piece, because we thought we were like. You were like oh no, this isn't controversial at all.

0:36:34 - Speaker 3 So one of the cool things about organizing around some keystone pieces organizing your day. So, for Julian and I, we're obsessed with sleep because we are a good company here Same. Yeah, it really is the magic.

0:36:48 - Speaker 1 My number one wellness hierarchy marker.

0:36:50 - Speaker 3 Oh, I love it, I love it. So what we start to see, though, is we start to make different decisions about during our day, so that we don't interrupt the sleep, and this is this is gonna be a bitter pill for people.

0:37:02 - Speaker 1 I turned down coffee dates because they're too late. I mean no, it's past caffeine cut off. I'm sorry, can't go on coffee, or I got to know if they have decaf or something else. That's right, you hit it.

0:37:11 - Speaker 3 Half life of caffeine is five hours. I mean is that caffeinated beverage is in your system for 10 hours?

0:37:17 - Speaker 1 I heard six. Is that? Is that more recent information, or I'll take it Okay, even better.

0:37:22 - Speaker 3 If you're fast caffeine metabolism, I used to like literally tell Juliet I was like I'm gonna have espresso and I would have an espresso and I go to bed and I would sleep like ass. Yeah, but I could have a stressful fall sleep.

0:37:32 - Speaker 1 You could get to sleep with. You know the quality. I'm sure we should, yeah, yeah.

0:37:36 - Speaker 3 And that's really what we start to see, One of the things that has been a big problem for something. I think the first time I was talking to the saints and I was like, and I just come out of working with the Marine Corps and I saw that I was like, hey, we really needed to have this talk about the depressant stimulant cycle that we're all on.

0:37:54 - Speaker 2 And they were like what?

0:37:55 - Speaker 3 And I was like, at the lowest level for the average person it's as much coffee as we can get in to feel sharp and kick butt. And then about seven or eight o'clock you start hitting the wine break and remember we're in Marin, we're in Northern California, highest concentration of adult binge drinking in the state and we're seeing that a lot of people have been self soothing with alcohol. And look, if that's the tool we have told people this legal drug, then we're like it's reasonable.

0:38:23 - Speaker 1 I'm so glad you said this is a legal drug, that that is the one of our one of our high performance psychologists.

0:38:29 - Speaker 3 The reason I said is it's a really crappy drug on your performance. So what we are doing is we have alcohol and caffeine, caffeine and alcohol, and then what we start to see is, oh, it's caffeine and THC. And then in professional sports it's Adderall and Ambien, and one of the teams we worked with it won a national title in a professional league. They're pitchers. We're starting. We're taking upwards of 15 to 30 milligrams of Adderall a day.

There were 10 10, 10, we're taking a lot of Adderall 10 in the morning, 10 at batting practice, 10 in the evening. And then you know how you go to sleep. After 30 milligrams Adderall you take two Ambien and then our and our warfighters were taking two Ambien, waking up and taking two more Ambien. Going to bed they're taking four Ambien at night and then to get your heart started and brain started. So what we saw was that there's so much noise in the system that's really hard to see if you're tired or what's going on. What we want, what we figured out it's so salient to people is if you are an adult, you probably have upwards of 30 to 60 minutes of sleep disruption every night. So if you're in bed and you get to go to bed 11, you get up at six, you're like I'm getting seven hours of sleep you're getting six hours of sleep.

0:39:38 - Speaker 2 No, you're not. No, you're not. Yeah, yeah.

0:39:40 - Speaker 3 And so what we recommend for people is hey, really see if you can buffer an extra 30 to 60 minutes to try to hit this minimum. So when we say seven, eight hours, if you're trying to get asleep for eight hours, you're sleeping seven hours, you're hitting our minimum, and I would say that for us, that really started to illuminate a whole lot of problems. My intermittent fasting experiment, which was super cool time restricted eating turned out. I would be way behind on my calories, have a crappy workout in the afternoon because I was under fueled, and then I would eat a ridiculous amount of food at dinner and a ridiculous amount of food before I went to bed. And then going to bed on a full belly guess what didn't actually make me sleep very well.

And it turns out by understanding these principles I started to make, be able to make different choices. I have to have a protein and some fruit for breakfast, otherwise I'm going to be under fueled for the rest of the day and I can't eat really past seven or eight o'clock because it's going to disrupt my deep sleep. I know that now I can start to make decisions and I'm also a big boy and then I'm going to be like tonight I'm having a margarita and tacos late and I'm going to sleep like crap and I understand that tomorrow I come back around.

0:40:44 - Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a little coffee shop by our office and I always get a decaf if it's like basically after 12 o'clock, but I look the barista in the eye like 20 times and I'm like. I'll cut you, you tell me you tell me, like on your soul, that this thing is the amount of times I confirm when I pick up my decaf.

I asked the cashier, I asked the barista decaf, decaf, oh yeah they do the exact same thing, because I'm like paranoid, you know, and the only time you know when you didn't get a decaf is when you're wide awake at 1am and then you're like, no, it wasn't a decaf. So we really start thinking about it early in the day.

0:41:21 - Speaker 1 You have to end. You know this. When you all started cracking open sleep like the floodgates of all the things just came open in me. And again, my audience has heard me talk about this for many years, but I'll share with you. Four years ago, when I decided to get away because I was that guy, you know I need to get up at 4am. I need to get more done by 8am than everybody else does by noon. I need to sacrifice sleep because I need to grind, grind, grind.

I was miserable, and everything else that I was making more time to do I might have accomplished. I might literally be able to check more things off of my to do list, but the quality of those things was beginning to suffer more and more. The quality of my workouts were suffering because I was so much more fatigued I wasn't recovering as much. The quality of my relationships with my wife and friends and peers was just. I was getting slightly irritable and that was compounding pretty damn quickly. And then, you know, really, looking at once, I started wearing a whoop device. That same year 2019, I was actually looking at shit. My sleep quality is nowhere near what I want it to be or what I think that it is, and ever since then, making sleep my number one marker for really dissecting everything else, reverse engineering everything else in my day, my life, my business, it has been fundamentally the most important decision that I've made, and anytime anything else gets off, I go back to my sleep data as well.

0:42:51 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean. There's literally not a single health habit that would make me try to cut out an extra hour of sleep like nothing, not even exercise and I love exercising. But if, if I had to trade exercising for seven hours of sleep over six, like I would choose seven hours, like. It's unequivocal.

0:43:11 - Speaker 3 If you're one of my athletes and we work with it. Kind of always we have a kind of rotating stable athletes we're supporting. I need you to track and we ask them to put a whoop on, we ask them to put an oar on. So we can really understand because if we're not, we have things going on. Let me give you an example of a two-time world champion where we're supporting. This world champion was getting in, had a history of some injuries and was trying to get through the season uninjured. They had won two back to back championships, two seasons of knee injuries and one of the things that we were seeing was I said hey, can I see your sleep data? And they were terrible sleeper. And as we got into that turned out one of the reasons they were table sleepers they were actually under fueling.

0:43:52 - Speaker 1 And they were engaged in these huge, huge efforts which is another huge marker I think a lot of people miss when, looking at everything, is most people your under consuming calories, that you need also protein, macronutrient.

0:44:04 - Speaker 3 I really I throw that so that you're nailing so exactly what we said was okay, let's go ahead and get you up to our protein minimums and getting you more micronutrients and fiber and that comes in the fruit of like.

we're like, you like apples, you like bananas, we don't care how you do it. You want to do with all broccoli and kale. You're a psycho. Go for it. But you need to hit these things so that your tissues have what they need to be tissues. And what we found was that we started adding in more food to fuel to hit these minimums. Sleep start to improve and the recovery started to recoup from these gnarly, gnarly sessions that this person was doing. And so what we, what we're trying to help people understand here, is that no one of these behaviors you say works by themselves. They're all systems and there's all this big kind of gigantic messy Venn diagram where these things overlap. But if you're chronically sleep deprived, under hydrated, poorly, you know you're just not eating enough, you're not moving, your tissues are going to get stiff. You know how we know because we've seen it 10,000 times, and that is, we start to untangle Again. This whole thing is about being durable, being able to maintain your range. I can do the splits at 50.

I work on it and I cover these basics all the time, and what we're trying to get people to do is say, hey, come up to these minimums and then start turning the dials a little bit and you'll be shocked at how much better you can feel we don't need to get everybody to be an Olympic athlete or seal right.

0:45:31 - Speaker 1 It's just we need to get to these minimums. That's so well said, kelly.

0:45:35 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and I think the point I wanted to make about the professional set that we work with is for those listening to this who are not those people. I think it would be easy to think that they're checking all the boxes and that they're perfect. And Kelly is right, you know, they often do have some sort of genetic freakish qualities and high heart rate variabilities and some you know special things that maybe allow them to perform at a very high level athletically. But what we've seen in working with those populations is they're often missing the basics as well.

And it turns out that those making sure that they're turning those basics back on can be the difference between, you know, getting a contract again next year or winning a world championship or an Olympic championship and it turned. You know, I think a lot of people think, okay, if they're working with professional athletes, they're using all these special tools and bells and whistles.

And no, what we find often is that, you know, the professional athletes we work with are actually would be qualified as sedentary because they train a couple times a day and then they sit for hours or you know they aren't, they aren't you know they maybe, you know, turned away from their nutrition for a little while because they were busy working on something else, or definitely sleep is a huge problem, Right, and so, and then and then, when we're talking about keeping an eye on your range of motion, I mean that is universal, right, Like there are certain sports, like Olympic lifting in gymnastics and certain sports that require you to have full native range of motion, and so those athletes work on that a lot. But, man, if you look at almost every other sport, professional athletes are not keeping an eye on those movement and range of motion basics, and so you know they're often in the same boat that you know the rest of us mere mortals are in, and it happens.

0:47:07 - Speaker 3 You know, one of my favorite stories is Simone Biles being interviewed the last Olympic cycle and I know she had the twisties and there was a lot going on, but she's still the greatest of all time and this right she's the goat. And so one of the things that they interviewed her and I think she's in her mid 20s at the time is that she said I have to get to the gym and start to stretch and warm up an hour before the formal stretching and warm up happened, because I can't keep up with the young kids, that the young kids can come in and quickly get to it. But in her 20s she was already discovering that her body wasn't as resilient and elastic and couldn't handle the volumes that she was in, so she had to put it.

And now, as we have seen, as we all age, the things that you have to pay more attention to sleep, nutrition, range of motion the tolerances get a little bit smaller there and that's you know, let me give you another story. We're working with this warfighter group that you've probably heard of, and one of the things that they're always trying to do is untangle sleep, because they have all of this weird sleep pressure, stress, right, there are different times. It's really gnarly life.

0:48:21 - Speaker 1 And you're working different shifts.

0:48:22 - Speaker 3 You're all of the tech and they track these things in their groups because they're very interested in saying they're at the tip of the spear. Can we inform an entire branch of the military through our practices? And what they found recently is that the only thing that significantly changed their sleep was not drinking for a month. That's the only thing. Yes, walking more help, but the thing? These group of people went dry for a month and, lo and behold, their testosterone went up and their sleep improved and their performance improved. They won the commandos of the month and their monthly competition and all they had to do is start to think about what are the stresses and inputs that are affecting the bigger system.

And that is such a good analogy, because most of us are like what? It's just a Manhattan, it's just a sip of bourbon, right? We don't think of it as hey, how are these things interacting? Sitting in the chair all day long, not getting your steps, not getting sunlight, not having relationships, they all start to have a sort of implied stress and we reduce our resilience, reduce our capacity to buffer all the additional stresses that are coming. So if you're working at the limits of your stress capacity and more stress comes, how are you going to deal with that?

0:49:41 - Speaker 1 You know, you all, you've got a lot of things going here. I want to kind of I want to bring it back to a couple items to close out, especially a couple things on the sleep. Just to attest to what you're all talking about, the two biggest factors that derail my sleep and I judge this by qualitatively how I feel the next day, but also quantitatively, looking at my whoop data in terms of sleep score, awake time, reduced light sleep and reduced REM sleep is alcohol, and that can be just as simple as one serving one glass of wine, one beer, one, whatever. I know I love it.

0:50:24 - Speaker 3 but right now you're probably not you're listening to this and you're not totally broke. You can afford. You can afford a corona light.

0:50:32 - Speaker 1 You know, for me it's that red wine. I've definitely turned into a wine over the years. But secondly, the biggest thing is you know, Kelly, you were talking about this during your intermittent fasting window eating late. I really do believe. For me, in my body, eating late, closer I eat to bedtime, derails my sleep more than a serving to even two, I'd say, of wine. It's unreal, it's crazy.

0:50:59 - Speaker 2 So that's. I just have to interrupt and say for me it's the same both of those things. Both of those things disrupt my sleep but interestingly you know, if I just have a alcoholic beverage versus eating, the eating closer to bed is actually worse for my overall sleep Same same. Yeah, and so you know it isn't that interesting, right? I think we know. But yeah, and for me it's got to be like a two hour window, you know even an hour isn't enough like a full two hour window which kills my like late night cereal craving.

0:51:27 - Speaker 1 I'm that guy, 8.39,.

0:51:29 - Speaker 2 I need some cereal Me too, like eating cereal at nine o'clock at night is like one of the great joys of being a human.

0:51:33 - Speaker 3 But yeah, especially with me, especially we're born in the 70s baby, I do not sleep well if I eat cereal. Let's double click on that, because oftentimes we're reaching for bourbon, we're reaching for an alcoholic beverage because or cereal we feel we'll talk about that too. We feel like we need to hit the brakes and relax.

0:51:52 - Speaker 1 We're trying to unwind, we're trying to slow down. I just want everyone to understand.

0:51:56 - Speaker 3 it's reasonable, that's so reasonable. But now we know to say, hey, if I reach for that there's an unintended consequence. So what else could I do? How am I? Could I do five minutes of stuff? Tissue mobilization, Could I go for? Like we need to actually give people some other tools which we've tried to do in this book instead of.

Hey, I feel. I know you feel like a crazy person. You just made it through the day, you got two kids to school, you had crazy times, you took care of your six spouse like it's real, and what we want people to understand is maybe there are some other things that are going to support your ability to manage that stress. The cereal is a really good example, because we often see that people are under calorie and so suddenly what you've seen is through the day. Have I engaged in enough eating?

0:52:41 - Speaker 1 That's why you get that craving.

0:52:42 - Speaker 3 Yes, and I'm not. You know, sometimes it's habitual, like you know. You're like where are those cookies at 2am, but sometimes it's just hey you actually have me.

0:52:50 - Speaker 1 We have any girl's health cookies left, the thin milk, that's the freezer.

0:52:54 - Speaker 3 They're always in the freezer during the day, and so what we see is at the very end. We can't sometimes see the 100 choices I didn't make during the day. And now it's late at night. I have no willpower. I'm smoked. I need to hit the brakes and not feel like an alien in my body. How am I going to self soothe? And I tell you what a double shot of something, plus some cooking man that really does work in the second. But now you're going to pay a blood price for that.

0:53:22 - Speaker 1 The next day and the next day and the next day, and we can justify that more so usually because, especially maybe I'm just speaking personally, oh I just by adding up in my head. Or maybe if I'm in a tracking cycle like I'm my fitness pal or something, because I usually under consume calories is, oh, I'm actually, I'm under my calories. So therefore I justify having my macros Exactly.

Yeah, but then I'm like shit. Now my sleep is going to suffer. So, to your point, yes, absolutely, kelly, but then it's just a matter of we have to come back to us and what are we working on? What are we compounding, or what is that priority right now? You may need to hit your calories, because you your goal here, or you may need to focus on the sleep, because your goal here. It's all okay, but it's also personal, but we can't ignore it.

0:54:07 - Speaker 3 Talk about your chronic pain, your poor healing, your inability to change your body composition, your inability to perform. If we're not doing these things and I think that's where we're not having an honest conversation about this is that was. You know. I've been asked to come in and help a couple like tech billionaires with their like as a performance coach and I've had to fire a couple of them because they were fused to not drink a bottle of wine tonight and I'm like, hey, it doesn't bother me yeah.

If that was the compromise, let's get you to a bottle of night and if it's coming down to a bottle coming down to a bottle, wow, and I guarantee you it's a really good bottle comma.

You know, for me I'm just like hey, we really can't get to the bottom of inputs and outputs here. Everything we're going to do is going to have less effect and we're going to see dirty noise. And that's what's so powerful. I think, when we start to give people again benchmarks and some an objective sort of waypoints, is that suddenly we can start to make decisions about where we are. Jill and I aren't tea toddlers.

We don't drink very often, but when we drink, same, because we're celebrating and it's food, and it's amazing, and it's very intentional human intelligence and God's love, and that wine goes with this meal, and it's amazing. But we're also not in like horrible stress situations. We're not in a world championship situation. Right, and remember, though, as we age, those tolerances for additional stress start to start to wait.

0:55:33 - Speaker 2 Well, and I think the word you used is exactly it, it's.

We're extremely intentional about it, you know, and the sub layer to this, which is probably way more than we can get into on this podcast, but Part of our intentionality around that is that we're parents of two kids, you know, in a world where, again, you know, we live in a county where there's a massive amount of teen binge drinking and we, and what we intentionally decided at some point is, hey, we need to make sure we are modeling for our kids that we can manage stress and cope with stress and have fun without alcohol involved.

And it turns out that that's actually rare, right, most of the adults we know turn to alcohol to de stress and to cope with stress and turn, and that alcohol is involved in every event that is social and is fun. And so we've just been very clear with our kids like, hey, alcohol is great, it can be, you know, a great and the right time, intentionally used. But if, if the only things you do in your life to cope with stress or drink, and the only way you know how to fun, how fun as an adult is to do events that involve drinking like man, it's, it's time to just take a step back and have a look it's going to be hard to win a world championship, yeah.

0:56:42 - Speaker 1 I agree. I agree Two points I want to say there, to kind of wrap this point up and we'll get to the closer. Guys has been incredible. I definitely could go so much along with you both. Maybe we'll be around too. But again, just to kind of share some personal insight for things that move the needle for me that I hope my audience can maybe think about and apply is look, I'm not a tea total or as well. My alcohol consumption has drastically declined over the last probably three, four years and for me it's come down to timing and where am I at emotionally If I am making the choice to have a drink. You know, usually I'm not drinking during the week, but let's just say if I, if I want to have a, I'm thinking about I want to grab a beer or get a glass of wine with dinner, I will. If I'm going to choose it, I will drink it sooner. I try.

0:57:28 - Speaker 2 I try yeah.

0:57:29 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm like you know 637.

0:57:31 - Speaker 1 Honestly, that's kind of my cutoff, Just like I have a noon cutoff, or never thought about having an alcohol cutoff.

0:57:36 - Speaker 3 I think that's great.

0:57:38 - Speaker 1 Especially during the week, because, again, sleep is my priority. So what I'll do is I'll try to get it in sooner, I'll have my own at home happy hour, so to speak, and then after that, what I also have done is try to get better at making a pause after that decision to check in with myself emotionally. Chase, why are you choosing to drink this? Are you feeling the woes of the day? Are you in maybe what I would deem a less ideal emotional state I'm kind of down or are you choosing it because everything else is good You're feeling?

0:58:08 - Speaker 2 great. Maybe you're joyful.

0:58:09 - Speaker 1 Exactly so. Therefore, I'm not carrying that high cortisol, high stress, emotional, physiological state into that alcohol consumption and that's a whole nother rabbit hole of the state of being, especially when we're looking at stress state coupled with the things we're consuming nutritionally High sugar, high carbs, alcohol. I mean we just we know that that is a much slipperier slope on top of all the poor metabolic health, poor sleep, poor everything I was just saying.

0:58:37 - Speaker 3 All the tasty things that I'm wired to love.

0:58:39 - Speaker 2 We so relate to that, the way that we sort of make that decision for ourselves, is the word that we use is, or the phrase that we use is. Our question we ask ourselves is is this a celebration? Turns out that nobody's having a celebration seven nights a week and you're usually not having a celebration.

0:58:55 - Speaker 1 If you are, I want to be in your squad, you know? Yeah, exactly.

0:58:59 - Speaker 2 You know, and there's not a birthday every single night in an event or whatever but we sort of love the celebration idea because the celebration can mean many things, you know we. It could just be that we're getting together with some friends we haven't seen. We're going to a cool restaurant nearby that has great cocktails. That's a celebration. We're going to have a cocktail, we're at a wedding, at a friend's birthday party, right, there can be these celebrations. But you know, those are few and far between, and so that's how we've, that's how we've sort of made that decision for ourselves.

0:59:25 - Speaker 3 Is this a celebration or are we just justifying If we could buffer it and it didn't wreck our sleep and really then follow along to diminish my work capacity, my feeling, my soft tissues, my strength, all of those things that I seem to care about. If that didn't impact those as much as it did, I'd have a different relationship, and I just want everyone to understand that it's a really rational decision and it's a way of thinking about the choices I'm making during the day.

0:59:56 - Speaker 1 Incredible guys. Well, for everyone who is listening and watching here, I want you all to just really take a moment and so call this in, go back, listen. This one has probably got to be one of the most necessary shareable episodes I've done in a while because it is so pertinent to everybody. But the book built to move the 10 essential habits to help you move freely and live fully. Check it out. I'm going to have it all linked for you in the show notes.

There were a couple other sections that we didn't get to in the interview from the book and your new work that I didn't get to but I think are very pertinent as well, and that's looking at counteracting the effects of technology dependence and sedentary living we kind of hit on sedentary-ness but also bringing back into the mainstream breathwork in some unique ways, but really not for all the crazy biohackers. We're really looking at another practice to manage stress, pain, even improve sleep. So if any of these other items sound of value, I think they are. Definitely check out the book, guys. With that, I want to ask my final question. So everything we've been talking about thus far is meant to bring awareness into my life. That's why I love what I do here, but also for the audience, so that they can test be. This n equals one and hopefully something's going to help move them forward. Keep moving, ever forward. I always ask my guests what does that mean to you? If you were to describe living a life ever forward, how would you define that man? I?

1:01:18 - Speaker 2 mean, we have this phrase, we call it, we have this phrase we use in our life, which is are we getting closer and making decisions that allow us to spend more time with our kids and our family and our friends doing fun things? We focus a lot on having a durable body so that we can do those things, and so for me, that would be how I would answer that.

1:01:40 - Speaker 3 Second About you.

1:01:41 - Speaker 2 Second yeah, yeah.

1:01:42 - Speaker 1 Beautiful. Well, as I said earlier, everything will be linked for the listeners and viewers in the show notes Starretts. Thank you guys so much. It's great to see you, Nice to see you.

1:01:51 - Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having us.