Speaker Chase Chewning: Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to Ever Ford Radio. Thank you so much for tuning in with me here today. We're gonna be diving into the champion of obsession. The one and only I was gonna lean into social meeting there, but I don't want to I don't want to liven that up. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I'm actually changing it What's up everybody? Welcome back to Ever Forward Radio! I'm here today with the champion of obsession, mister Zach Pogrob himself. We're gonna be talking about a lot of things, but just get your head around this one word right now. The through line is obsession, but a healthy one. With that, Zach. Welcome to the show, man. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Let's go ever forward. Speaker Chase Chewning: That's my that's my lie. That's my lie. Speaker Zach Pogrob: It relates to obsession. It's it's pretty similar. Speaker Chase Chewning: It does. And once I started diving into your work a lot more and and kinda hearing not only what you say, what you create, but how you say it and how you create it, the through line of of ever foreword was there, which is why we're here today, man. So for that, I say thank you and welcome. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Thank you. Speaker Chase Chewning: I got so I got so many questions. I have so many great kind of expansions from your work. I just wanna quickly acknowledge, man, what you do and how you do it is so creative and is important because In this day and age, for anyone to come out and kinda say the things that you're saying without the right approach, would not land appropriately, would not hit the ears and the hearts of as many people as it does. So kudos to you, for the obsession and making sure that that delivery method is there. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Thanks, man. Appreciate that. Speaker Chase Chewning: Of course. You're very welcome. Your background, I think, really, for me, makes a lot of sense. I understand you went to school for integrative neuroscience. And so I'm curious from you know, the the definition I found actually of your school is talking about neuroscience being the study of the nervous system provides incredible opportunities to work many disciplines as it focuses on the brain and its functioning. From the biology to the psychology of behavior, there is much to study. Was this where it all began for you? Was this the moment when it kinda clicked of like, oh, this is not just something I'm making up. This is innate in humans. Speaker Zach Pogrob: In some ways, I think it was less about the subject material, like what you're describing, the actual neurobiology, and it was more just that was one of the first times I actually felt obsessed. Really? Yeah. Because I I don't even know what I went to college for first. I went to play I went to play soccer, you know? That was all I cared about. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Grew Speaker Zach Pogrob: up on Long Island, so I was just, you know, everyone there play soccer. And that was why I went to the school I did, Binghamton, and then first I wanted to be a lawyer, and then I wanted to do something else. But That was a pretty unique major at my school in neuroscience, sounded cool, and it was the first subject where I felt myself just wanting to, like, live in the books I was reading and the textbooks and it was like finding this like invisible layer behind reality and I was so obsessed with it for the first time and so I changed my major to it. And so yeah. Like, I'm really interested in it, but it's I changed my life not because of the actual subject material. But just because it was one of the first times I really felt myself wanting to learn something relentlessly and like living in a library past midnight. And so that feeling is pretty important. Speaker Chase Chewning: Did you feel loss? You know, I heard you say that you didn't maybe really fully know what you wanted to do when you grew up, you didn't wanna you didn't know what you're gonna study. Was it a sense of I feel lost and I don't know what to do with my life, what I want for my life, or was it clarity in that you just had not yet found it? Speaker Zach Pogrob: There was definitely a sense of confusion. A lot of that came because I was so invested in the soccer, hadn't really thought about life outside of it. And then when I stopped playing soccer around my junior year, I had to find a new path. And so, leaving that identity is where everything kinda started for me, and I started to find the path. I think it was less about confusion and more just I just wasn't seriously thinking about it outside of like that world I was living in. Play college sports, did you play sports in school or Speaker Chase Chewning: high school? Not in college, but in high school. Yeah. It was a baseball kid my whole life. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: And it's like your whole life. When you're when you're in it, and then you don't think of life outside of it. Speaker Chase Chewning: Take us to that moment when maybe it was like this, maybe it wasn't. Take us to that moment when you realize this is my obsession, this is my path. Was it the lights went dark, was it tunnel vision, was it angel singing, was it hype? Was it anxiety? Was it calm? What was it like for you? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. It was all I was about to go back to school for my junior year in a school in Connecticut. Transferred to play soccer there. And about two weeks before I went back, I just decided this isn't it? I'd spent like three years like sitting on a bench of college soccer, I was either always hurt or just not playing well. And then that that shaped everything about who I am, sitting on a bench, watching other people when you're pretending to be happy when you're going in and celebrating with a team, when you did nothing. And some people can do that on my team and I would look at them and they'd be they'd be so happy that the team won. They would be so fucking happy. Celebrating, cheering dog piling. And I would be doing those actions, but I was freaking miserable. If you weren't a part of it. Yeah. I wasn't a part of it. And eventually that just boiled up and I'm like, what am I doing? This is fake. And that was when I realized that I wasn't gonna do it, went home, quit left the school, went home to Long Island, went to community college, that semester, and just lived in the gym. And just like carved this new version for myself and I felt like life felt unreal because it was the first time I felt like I had infinite time and options. Speaker Chase Chewning: And potential probably too. Right? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. And it's like I read this quote the other day and I haven't stopped thinking about it. I forgot who wrote it, but he said, when you're making a big decision like that to quit something, you feel like the entire world is ending. But when you actually make it, it feels like it's just beginning. And That feeling is hard to explain, you only really get it when you make a huge life decision whether that's a break up or leaving a job. And so, yeah, that was when the obsession wanting to start businesses, wanting to make content, all started to cultivate there and build there once I made that decision to come home. Speaker Chase Chewning: You say never apologize for being obsessed, pull an all nighter, work out for three hours, finish a book in one sitting, positive obsession is a gift disguised as a curse. How do we know then what we're most passionate about is, in fact, a positive obsession. Is it really can it really be that objective? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think the simplest way to to split it positive versus negative is if it's an act of creation. Most negative obsessions are consumption, it's selfish, it's watching Netflix all day, doing drugs, doing alcohol. But the positive obsessions are usually some form of output it it's writing, it's selling, it's something that is for the world. Speaker Chase Chewning: I would say that's like More release not consumption. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Exactly. I think that's like the easiest divide. Though it definitely can get more complicated when you are obsessed with something that most people would think is positive, let's say, you have a business. Right? But now you're destroying your family life because of the business. And and that's where it gets tricky and that's that's why the word obsession is so controversial. It divides people. Because it is kind of a great word. Speaker Chase Chewning: Do you feel like you have a different definition of obsession, or do you just have a different experience of obsession? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think both, like I think I view it I view it truly down the middle. It is a positive Chewning. When used right, but it always has a cost if you are truly obsessed. And that cost, some people have major costs where it ruins their family, where it ruins their health, other people, it's minor cost where you just simply you can't do something that other people do. Right. Yeah. I view it with that lens someone will hear the word and instantly think negative some people, but the reason it's so great is because of people I wanna reach, the entrepreneurs, creators, builders, who felt it forever, they resonate with it instantly. And like that's the coolest part is people who I love their content, I love their work, their business, and they see in my bio it says, you know, you follow me, I'm talking about a session like ten times a day. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Throw on the Black flag Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: The Black Fies and they they message me and they love it. And so that's a cool feeling. Speaker Chase Chewning: Have you ever had an experience whether by your your own awareness or someone that you trust and respect, kinda calling you out. Have you ever been like, you know what? Obsession got me. You know, it it really it hasn't been as healthy as maybe I have been thinking it is. Speaker Zach Pogrob: You're saying in my personal life or like in general? Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. You, personally. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. All the time. Speaker Chase Chewning: All the time. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Like all the time, I kind of feel it, especially not all the time, but often very often. Often. Okay. With, like, relationships with my family and my friends. Speaker Chase Chewning: How do you navigate that? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think I'm still figuring it out. I feel like I'm only twenty six. I feel like I there's no easy answer. I think it The one way I do know to navigate it is just with trying to be present. Something me and a lot of people in social media world you struggle with, Speaker Chase Chewning: especially when you have an obsession, I I would think that being present Chewning in the present moment is one of the most difficult things, or is one of the things that you're consciously trying to be aware of, you know, or or work on. Speaker Zach Pogrob: A hundred percent. I think that's how that's how you solve it, though. And that's how I've tried to be better with it. It's when I am with the people I care about, when I'm not doing the thing I'm obsessed with, to try to have some type of obsession in that moment almost, and be really present with them. Because Yeah. I think the first few years I was doing everything, I was just so sucked into my stuff. And it ruined the relationships I was in. And now I've learned from that and but I still struggle with it. I think everyone who's truly obsessed struggles with it. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. And I would argue that if you don't, then you're probably not really obsessed or to the level that you think you might be. Right? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think so. Because it's all consuming. That's like, I think, when you're trying to do something truly and this is not like great. This is not I was gonna write something like this today, but it's like if you want just like a normal life and like good success, you don't need to be obsessed, you don't. But I I do believe if you want to be a one on one, if you wanna make something that truly changes the world in some way, even a tiny way, you need to be consumed by it. That's what I think. Speaker Chase Chewning: That's a clip right there, Matt. That's it. That's the line. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, but to your point look back at all of the greats of the world. We would not have certain cars, certain clothing, certain pieces of technology. We wouldn't even have certain parts of the world if it wasn't for these individuals having this from I don't know where this just fire burning obsession of what else. What else, what could be, what can be, who can I be? Speaker Zach Pogrob: There's a quote I heard the other week. This entrepreneur, Brian Norgard, he said, at the pinnacle of every discipline, all you see is obsession. It's like, it's truth. Speaker Chase Chewning: It is truth, man. It is truth. Kinda rolling right along here. I love how you kind of also facilitate you talked about, you know, kinda your first, I think, obsession, if I heard you correctly, was the body. You know? You've you found fitness or you're already an athlete, and you kinda made sure to keep that a a regular part of your life. And I think for many people, physical activity exercise, especially the gym or any kind of practice when you're training conditioning the body is your first it's the gateway drug. Right? To to to obsession because you get a lot of positive feedback, traditionally. What do you think it is about fitness and and training the body that shows people a healthy obsession. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. So I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot and I think people in general work out for two reasons and I feel like lately I've been working out for a third. And most people either work out to be healthy, some people work out to feel mentally good. Right? But then a third which is like what I've really been focusing on is I'm like training and running and lifting because I want better ideas. So I'm doing it. It's like health, mindset, and then creativity is this third portion. Speaker Chase Chewning: So you view exercise and training as kind of a newfound hack for creativity? Speaker Zach Pogrob: A hundred percent. Wow. And like obviously you get the other pieces too and like I'm trying to cut right now. I need to be leaner and like I want to. That's part of it. But what I really want out of it is these ideas that changed my life in some way and change other people's lives. Especially around three months ago when I was going really hard with the videos on Instagram, it was really hard to come up with new ones and I had to just go work out or wrong without my phone, sit in the sauna, and just have that time, and like, it was a creative activity. And so, that is part of it. What was the actual question you asked? Speaker Chase Chewning: Well, yeah, you're you're landing on it. You're landing on it, but actually I I think this is a great kind of pivot point because what I'm hearing you say is probably what a lot of people would would give up. They would go, no. I need to create. I need to do. I don't have time to go train. I don't have time to run. I don't have time to go sit in the sauna for thirty minutes. But you went the other way. Can you kind of expand on what is it in the moment for you that proves to you this is where I need to be in order to continue my obsession in a healthy way? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. I mean like, I talk about putting your obsession into a vehicle. Mhmm. Right? Like packaging it into whether it's a podcast or a business. But in another like play on that word, like, you are the vehicle for your obsession. So you have to take care of that vehicle and like, yeah. I don't know. If it falls apart, everything falls apart. You look at all the grates, like most of the top entrepreneurs, they're all in ridiculous shape. They're all in six shape because it it matters so much. And when I fall off, everything else does. I'm sure you relate to that. Speaker Chase Chewning: I'm sure. Oh my god. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Anyone listening to this relates to that. Speaker Chase Chewning: If I go usually for me, if for whatever reason by day four, if I haven't gone at least for like a long walk or hit the gym or done something, going out of my mind. Yeah. It definitely pours over negatively into my work in every other way. You've got this other great quote. Do do you have so many quotes? So many great I mean, this is Oh, dude. So, of course, I'm just like, oh my god, this is gold. This is gold. I I read something where you said that ninety nine percent of people live below nine percent of their potential. How is recognizing someone else's wasted potential and advantage to us, what teacher lies inside that observation. So not reflecting on maybe what we deem as wasted potential, but I think sometimes it's easier to see in other people. So instead of going, such for you, sorry, for you, how can we look at that wasted potential and pull out maybe a teacher in that, you know, could this be another hack for creativity? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. I mean, I get sucked into it a lot especially, you know, with content always looking at other creators and what other creators are doing. I think it's about always remembering what game you're playing and not getting sucked into games that are easier to play, more obvious to play. Mhmm. Right? So, like, everyone, if you're on Twitter a lot, everyone on Twitter is doing, like, the same stuff, the same type of content, the same type of products, and it's easy to get sucked into that and waste like a decade of your life, I think. And you have to make sure this game you're playing is one hundred percent yours and one hundred percent bigger. And, yeah, it's it's hard, but you can see it in people when they get attached to these things. And start playing and Chewning, and I I always try not to copy. I always try not to play those things and do those things even though they are easier. And people recommend you to do them. That's the hard part. Like, I kinda my stuff kinda blew up in the last year, and you get every voice in your head, and every voice has a good idea. Speaker Chase Chewning: Like what what are some of those voices maybe that you weren't expecting? Speaker Zach Pogrob: You mean, like, what do you mean? Speaker Chase Chewning: So you're in pursuit of your obsession. Right? And you're doing Chewning, and then the thing happens, or the thing pops off. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Were you prepared for that? Were you prepared? Did you think about the voices that might come down the line or was it just completely uncharted territory? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think, like, mentally, I knew it would happen, but I I wasn't prepared for yeah. How many people would come out with, like, how many voices I would hear and then how much I'd struggle to just listen to myself? Because, you know, now I'm getting ideas and advice from killers. But the problem is if you take fifty great pieces of advice and try to implement all of it, you're gonna fail at all of them because you're not listening to yourself. And you're not you know, it's like yeah. And so that's a part I wasn't prepared for and I'm still struggling with. Because, you know, there's can be polar opposite ideas and they can both be right. But if you do both, you're gonna you're gonna fail. Speaker Chase Chewning: So then how do you navigate How do you navigate, especially coming from other obsessed people, the right information is it for you as cut and dry as, you know, let me just go back and make sure I'm following my voice. But if you're hearing the words and insights of other people that are equally obsessed, you probably maybe kind of feel some affinity towards that. Right? So how do you kind of navigate those waters? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. It's hard because especially, like, a few months ago, I would get really excited to talk to certain people and it's hard to like filter that advice Speaker Chase Chewning: when you Speaker Zach Pogrob: still have that excitement. But you know, but there's two things. I think one is just a gut feeling that I'm getting better at recognizing because that gut feeling is everything. There can be something that makes so much sense on paper. But you just know in your gut you're gonna feel wrong doing it or promoting it even though like I said it makes sense on paper. And I think it's also there's a quote, it's a for how to set it, but it says, it might have been the Vol bravo gone. He says, Or I've been Rick Rubin. I don't know. But he Speaker Chase Chewning: one of those guys who Speaker Zach Pogrob: one of those guys who everyone reads too much of. But it's it's like Only don't do something someone else can do. And like there's things that only I can do in the world, like only I can really talk about obsession and and build things around it. That's not true obviously, but it's like true to me and it will be really true one day in like a decade of talking about this stuff. I really only talked about it for like a year. And so, yeah, those two things. It's like the gut feeling and then doing only what I can do, not like copying this because it works, and this because it works. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: You've got another interesting approach to obsession that I've heard before, but quite literally have not heard before. And shot out mutual homie Danny Miranda. I was listening to one of you guys' conversations. And you are so in love with obsession. You have this unique reminder system where you you go in and you leave voice memos for yourself. And I heard you talk. You literally played one on on the episode. And I heard you talk as if you are Zach in the future. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: And and you weren't in the moment trying to motivate yourself to get you out of this this kind of emotional rut you're in right then, but you you were like, you know what? I'm gonna go to the future. I'm gonna go to what that Zach is already doing. The mindset he's already in, and then just remind myself. Where did that concept come from and when you are confused when maybe you are in any kind of gray area, how do you tap into and have such clarity of the future already to then come back and kind of give yourself advice. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Is that what I was doing? And I was talking to myself, like, from the future? Speaker Chase Chewning: That's what I heard. Speaker Zach Pogrob: You're right. I was. I was saying like you. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. You were saying you. You weren't saying me me, I I. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I need to listen of those more because they're they're really important. I have a lot of those voicemail moments. Dude, I Speaker Chase Chewning: was sipping on my morning coffee the other day. I'm just like, this is amazing. This is great. Speaker Zach Pogrob: A lot of it Like, you asked why did I think to do those? Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Or or eve why why but also even what role does that have with obsession? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. I mean, it was some part, you know, all the great obsessed, like, had some type of visualization, manifestation, routine or activity like Arnold. He just had a new documentary that came out. Really good on Netflix. And he slept with the entire poster wall of, you know, Frank Zane, not Zane, reg park, and all these icons, all these bodybuilders who want it to be like. And, you know, he would go to sleep dreaming of being mister Olimpia. That was his routine. My routine, I worked and had a business where I don't know if we got into that podcast, but I did like wedding rentals. Speaker Chase Chewning: You like venues and stuff like that. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: And so I would drive. Do you Speaker Chase Chewning: also an EMT at the time? Is that right? Yeah yeah yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I'm doing a bunch of stuff. And but I would be driving like long hours often like an hour to these venues and I had nothing to do and I was just in my head and so that's why I would like just rip these voice memos. But there was a time when I had I was literally just starting, but I would do the same thing from the future and I would say, you're gonna have this warehouse, you're gonna have this and this, and I did almost all of it. And it's like, however you can implement that visualization. Especially I think it's I wasn't consciously planning it though. It was just like this built up energy and but you're right. I hadn't even thought about that. It's like I was talking from the future. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. I was Speaker Zach Pogrob: like living in that future moment because I remember I would drive. I remember specifically once I was driving home from this was one of those long drives. Like in the beginning, I would drive like seven hours to do an event. And just one event, make a few hundred bucks. And I remember driving home and talking about myself that you're gonna grow this, you're gonna get a warehouse and the goosebumps. Even right now I get them a little bit, like, through my veins, I was driving. Speaker Chase Chewning: Plapsing space and time on yourself and the goals that you want to create. Speaker Zach Pogrob: It was a high. It was a literal high. Even now, I have an inch of it. And, yeah, you have to figure out a way to do that. Comes from clarity of what you want, I think. You know? But you have to be clear on what you want. Speaker Chase Chewning: I know it's -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: -- non traditional to say, but man, if you're not getting high in your own supply, Speaker Zach Pogrob: then what is you doing? It's true. Speaker Chase Chewning: What is you doing? Exactly. Exactly. Excuse me. You know, we kinda touched on a little bit, but training, you know, being in soccer, playing soccer before, you know, you're an athlete hard, recovering harder. I'm curious, what did sports and soccer, in particular, or just kind of the the training athlete mentality teach you about obsession. What irrefutable traits from from playing and being in the gym do you keep with you that you feel provides the most amount of continuous or to your north star. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. There there are two things that stand out. One is just like the discipline to show up every day to practice. Right? You do that for years, show up every day, do the same Chewning, go through exercises, it becomes normal to take that energy and do something else every day. I've been posting content every day for basically like basically four years. So Speaker Chase Chewning: Every day for four years. Speaker Zach Pogrob: That's And it's not like not long. It's not super long, but Speaker Chase Chewning: it's -- Not question. I'm just saying that's like the important point. That's a necessary point to make. Speaker Zach Pogrob: And it was never even like It wasn't something I really had to force. It was just automatic. Don't think about it. I think part of that is soccer. Then there's also one thing I would do a lot in in training is always just like die on the field. So if we were doing sprints, if I was chasing after someone on a breakaway, I would just die on the field and just like, just give everything. I was always the guy if we were doing experience of practice, I was dead right away. You can Speaker Chase Chewning: after every practice all the time. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah, yeah, puking, life edit, and cautions, just everything. Speaker Chase Chewning: And It's like, damn, you kid your liability, man. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Exactly. And so, yeah, those two things just Chewning up every day and killing yourself on the field. Speaker Chase Chewning: It sounds like tenacity and work ethic and you know I Speaker Zach Pogrob: might not have had that if not sports. So yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Where do you think nowadays when you look at maybe people in pursuit of obsession, creators, just, you know, in general, where are people wasting their time? Maybe I should caveat by saying, as it pertains to supporting their obsession or not. Speaker Zach Pogrob: People are it comes back to like playing bigger games. People get sucked into small games, and they make that their identity. The one I've been really focused on, are you on Twitter a lot? Speaker Chase Chewning: Not a lot, but I am I'm trying to increase the Twitter. The thing Speaker Zach Pogrob: on Twitter called like the Solo Prineur movement Speaker Chase Chewning: on Severs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: This is an example. Like this is I see talked about this last one I was in here, but it's really important. All these young guys are putting like Solo Printer which basically what that means is you know, you're a solo business, you're like one person. And I see all these like eighteen, seventeen, twenty year olds adding this to a bio, identifying with this, And there's been some clever creators. I'm not gonna name them, but like, who have done they made this their brand and that's Chewning, which is That's cool. But I think it's like an impediment. It's like, this is your time to obsess truly. You're like seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty. In your twenties in general, or even thirties. It's like this is your time to obsess and build what you wanna build. Find your life's work. And I think people are optimizing for this freedom. And realizing that that's not what they that's not what you really want. You know what I mean? Yeah. You get the freedom and then you realize that you're you're happier in a day to day mode of obsession, building something epic, especially with a small team. That's something I missed a lot when I was I was younger, really just a few years ago. I had, you know, that event rental business, and it was really just me. I had some employees, but it was really just me managing it. I was alone every day. Versus now, I have a really cool studio with two other creators, and I work with a bunch of people who help make my content. And it's amazing. It's so fun to make stuff with people and you get to make more stuff. I would not I don't animate any of my videos, right? I don't animate one. I add me to the first one. Which was not great. But Speaker Chase Chewning: think about start. What? You got your start there. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: You got the template. You got the idea of vision. Yeah. But Speaker Zach Pogrob: think about it. Like, if I reached tens almost probably a hundred millions more people now, not hundreds, tens of millions more people now Speaker Chase Chewning: -- Up there. Yeah. -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: and it's because I did it with other people. So I think the solopreneur Chewning, if you find yourself in that trap, just like, just get out of it. That's one. Speaker Chase Chewning: I I can attest to that. I I I know exactly what you're saying, but I'm I I gotta ask a question. In pursuit of obsession, it seems like we should be going alone. It seems like no one is gonna understand it the way that I do. How how would you say we should or how do you communicate that obsession to others to right people so that the obsession can thrive maybe even a little bit quicker, but definitely more efficiently. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think one piece of it is like the insights, the ideas, the vision comes from one person. And then the organization, the company is all that obsession, like, filters through it, kinda like water, filtering through like I don't know, something like sand or something. Yeah. That founder's obsession is like the blood of the entire company. And I think it's finding I read something the other day. If you have a mat if you want people to give up their vision, you want people to give up their vision, your vision has to be so much greater. Speaker Chase Chewning: So I Speaker Zach Pogrob: think it starts with Chewning a massive, massive vision and goal. And then, you know, finding people who have that magic who show you that obsession, they're staying up late, or they're doing extra. You'll see it when you notice it I think. There's two sides to that solopreneur thing which is I don't think young people I don't think if you wanna build something great, you should try to do it alone. But I do think you need less people than ever. I think, you know, and that's only gonna get greater. I think you can change the world with like five people in a small room or even remote, it's like. So, yeah, that's what I'd say. When you see it in someone, you know it instantly. I wrote about this recently. It's when you I can tell when someone has obsession right away almost within ten seconds because there's just this There's just this energy and something behind their eyes that you can see, that they're paying attention to details that no one looks at, that they're talking about things, that no one that most people just look over, most people go through the motions, but they're studying every step. And it's recognizing that is not super easy, but you mean enough people, I think, you probably can recognize it in people, and It's obvious. Speaker Chase Chewning: My brother a lot for stuff like this. I mean, he's been like this his entire life, but it's funny, like, anytime there's a new ever afford apparel launch or something, you know, he's the most excited to show me the like, etching on the zipper. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Mhmm. Like or Speaker Chase Chewning: or the teeth. He's like, Chase, we upgraded the teeth. It's now a fully YK on the I don't even know what that is. But a lot of people would just see an end product of something that someone creates, but this guy is showing me the most intricate detail component -- Yep. -- that, you know, that obsession. Speaker Zach Pogrob: He's he's definitely obsessed Max even just in his videos. He's done Speaker Chase Chewning: -- Oh, yeah. -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: like several week for, like, a decade. I don't know, longer. Speaker Chase Chewning: And and that's a trait that he's had his entire life. Yeah. You know? The kid's been like that anytime anything that just latches if something gets in his eyesight and he likes it -- Yeah. Game over. He's gonna crush it. He's gonna be the best at it. Yeah. Putting asshole. Actually, I pulled up a quote or I wanna pull up today's daily stoic. Are you familiar with the daily stoic? Yeah. You you posted them. Right? Speaker Zach Pogrob: You've been posting them. Speaker Chase Chewning: I post the daily stoic, It is my first thing I share on social media every day, and it's been like this for about eight years now? Speaker Zach Pogrob: The book from the book, daily stories? Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah, which kind of sounds sad. I've been reading the same book every day for eight years. Speaker Zach Pogrob: That's the way to do it. That is the way to do it. Thank you. Speaker Chase Chewning: Thank you. Because every year, it's like a different passage every year. So now I'm revisiting the same passage a year later. I have a totally different perspective. But today's I thought would be pretty unique and applicable. I would love to get your perspective on it. This comes from the June thirteenth page of the daily stoic by Ryan Holiday, and it's from the stoic Epictetus. And he goes, don't you know life is like a military campaign. One must serve on watch, another in reconnaissance, another on the front line. So it is for us, each person's life is a kind of battle and a long and varied one too. You must keep watch like a soldier and do everything commanded. You have been stationed in a key post, not some lowly place, and not for a short time, but for life. One, I just felt like you would be a great guide to kind of just, you know, give us your perspective. But two, because I've also kinda seen you talk about you know, the battlefield of creativity and waging war on obsession. So I kinda feel like you have that militant mindset as well. So I would love to kinda just, you know, what is your two cents on that, man? Life as a battlefield. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I think there's a lot to it. I think everyone's at war with something. But if you pick the right war, it solves all your problems. And if the mission you're on is correct, then you don't stress about the little things. Most people are so stressed and confused because they just don't have something they really care about, I think. You meet someone who's relentless and committed to a vision forever. And they just don't care about little things. They don't gossip. They don't they don't care about lines or anything. They just That is the only thing that matters. Speaker Chase Chewning: So I Speaker Zach Pogrob: think picking the right war for your life is like, it's everything. Speaker Chase Chewning: Dude hell yeah. That hit that hit. I loved that. I loved that. That was so good. That was that was a militant answer. Yeah. You say, you know, follow obsession, and I'm highlighting the word here, follow obsession. To kinda pick that apart a little bit, That implies we are not in the lead. Does obsession lead us or do we lead obsession? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Session definitely leads us I mean, when I talk about this word and we probably said it a hundred times in this podcast. Speaker Chase Chewning: That's the point. It's Speaker Zach Pogrob: the point. It's if there's a lot of layers to it, there's obsession as a thing. You might be obsessed with podcasting. It seems like you are. Mhmm. Very. Yeah. But then there's also the feeling. It's, you know, being obsessed, that Chewning of, you know, relentless commitment. And so the idea of following it I think is really important because it is this because obsession changes. Mhmm. You know? A lot of the great obsessives they they live in acts like Arnold we were just talking about. He was he was an athlete, he was a bodybuilder, and then became an actor, and then a politician. And you know, most of the obsessors they have, I have this whole thing, the path of obsession. I don't need to go into all of it, but there's usually a pinnacle at the end of Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Our friend Danny, his is performing at Meijas at Square Garden. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Arnold was being mister Olimpia. And once they achieve it, they wanna go do something else. So that's why following obsession is important. It's like this. You can call it the white rabbit. You can call it whatever. But it's like a maze that you're entering. And it's just leading you through different things, and all that matters is paying attention to that feeling. It's that feeling that I felt like when I was in college studying the neuroscience books for the first time. Back then, I didn't understand the Chewning. But now, I'm getting better at recognizing when I feel it, when I see it in other people, when I share an idea and seeing if they light up about it, Most people do not understand what they really love doing, I don't think. And they do not understand and recognize when they're obsessed because it's there's no words for it. It's just a feeling. But that's why I say follow it because it is something you have to trust I mean, look, you can call this, like, the universe, spirituality, God, whatever. Speaker Chase Chewning: It's all the same thing in my opinion. Speaker Zach Pogrob: It's all the same Chewning. And it's this is leading you through where you wanna go. That's why I think the word follow is perfect. Speaker Chase Chewning: You know, you talked about others obsessions as well. I'll say when we don't have an obsession in our life sometimes, yet we can recognize and damn near embody to the same level in a recession that someone else has, there's a lot of power in supporting that and following that, following someone else's obsession. What would you say to somebody who is struggling with their own obsession, but really latches on to the mission to the obsession with someone else how can we best support that and turn someone else's obsession into our own in a healthy way? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Obsession is definitely contagious. So I think however you can fill your brain with something that gives you that Chewning, whether that's someone on a podcast or reading a book you know, there's infinite biographies about great obsessed people and entrepreneurs and and creators. But I always say people always ask me how to find obsession and this is something I've only gotten clarity on, like, I'd say in the last year, is comes through creation. It's like what we talked about in the beginning. How do you divide a good obsession to bad obsession? A good obsession is creation. And so, the way you find your obsession is you create a lot and you realize you follow you realize you come back to that word follow. And you try to find the feeling of obsession in everything you're creating. And if you make enough stuff, you'll feel it. I wrote every day for like years. For three, four years until I found this one word, I know it's kinda meta, but I found this word that really resonated with me and resonated with everyone else. I decided this is what I'm gonna talk about forever. And I only found that through making a ton of stuff. Yeah. So I think most people when you don't have your obsession, you just haven't created enough stuff. Speaker Chase Chewning: What are you most obsessed about right now? Is there anything new on Horizon for you that really has your your eye. Maybe it's not an obsession right now, but you could see it turning into one. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. It's products. It is like your brother's a really good example. He made this perfect product for him and what he loved and what he was obsessed. Sour trips. Yeah. Sour trips, I'd say. Yeah. And it's But anyone listening, Speaker Chase Chewning: I just wanna say, Max, that has been an ID in his head. I shit you not since we were probably eight years Speaker Zach Pogrob: old. Really? Speaker Chase Chewning: Make a Speaker Zach Pogrob: sour candy. Speaker Chase Chewning: I don't think he knew he wanted to make it then, but his obsession with sour candy -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: Exactly. Speaker Chase Chewning: -- and finding the best sour candy since he was seven or eight. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. So, exactly. Like, that's because I've kind of done the content thing now. I've gone to enough reach. Where now, like, you look at the best businesses and creators in general, it's a flywheel. You make content and you monetize that content and you take that money and you make better content, And it's a firewall that keeps going. And now at the stage where it's time to package obsession into different products and and vehicles. Yeah. And I'm doing that through sponsorships and etcetera now, small things, but haven't started my real first brand yet. Yeah. So that's what I'm obsessed with right now. It's just these magic companies. Like, I'm obsessed with a lot of business movies coming out recently. Like, Air, the Air Jordan movie. Speaker Chase Chewning: Dude, that was so good. So good. So good. Speaker Zach Pogrob: And the Tetris movie Speaker Chase Chewning: Obviously, no one yet. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Another one is flaming hot. It's a documentary about the hotchitos guy. Oh, wow. Shit. Wait a minute. What is it called hotchitos? Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. I think it's an Eva Longoria movie. It is. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I remember Speaker Chase Chewning: seeing a post search. It was like Abel Speaker Zach Pogrob: on Yeah. It was good. And these like magic products where people just find something that resonates with the entire world. Yeah. And so that's what I'm Right now, that's what I'm obsessed with. Because I wanna figure I will do that, and I'll figure that out is how do you take this feeling and put it into these these perfect products, these perfect packages. And yeah. So that's the answer. Speaker Chase Chewning: Well, there's no doubt whatever you're gonna do next. Whatever is already in the works, whatever that obsession tangible thing is. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: It's gonna be amazing because how could it not be? I I don't think I don't think anyone majority speaking could create something after a lineage, you know, days, weeks, months, years, of compounding and compounding and compounding. Like, right now, it's the intersection of of opportunity and preparedness. Hundred percent Really mad. So best endeavors to you. I can't wait to see what you've got cooking up next. Thanks, brother. Whether it's a post or a thing I can hold or wear or take whatever, and we'll see. But to wrap it all up, I think this is a perfect kind of new definition or experience to describe what it means to live a life ever for we have to be obsessed about it. We have to be on the continuous pursuit of making ourselves better and choosing to move forward every day. But what would you say is living a life ever for it? How do you define those two words? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I would say relating into what I talk about obsession, If obsession is the path ever forward is like the speed. Speaker Chase Chewning: Oh, alright. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I don't know. Yeah. It's the first thing I thought of. It's That's cool. Always forward. Obsession only operates. It's the speed and the direction. Obsession is only forward. And yeah, it's a maze. I talk about obsession like a maze, but you're only going You're not going back. No going back. And so that's what I think of when I think I've ever forward. Such a great two words. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Oh, dude. Thank you. I I love that interpretation. That was so good. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. That was good. Well, I love when you like, I respect what you're what you're doing. And my brother's doing because you both talk about the word. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. It comes from our father, his phrase. Yeah. So it was something that was ingrained in us for our entire lives. So it's really I love how we both now have kind of been able to Care the torch a little bit in that way -- Yeah. -- honor him. But, yeah, man, we've got our own obsessions and it's beautiful to see what we're doing with life. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. And I I just love how you I love people who talk about the same small thing forever, and it seems like you're gonna say those two words forever, and I just love that. And so, yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: Well, if I don't say it, I definitely I've gotta you can't see I got a tattoo to my arm. So Exactly. And one way or another, I'll be saying -- Yeah. Exactly. -- you can read it and hear it. But, yeah, man. Well, dude, Zach, it's been great. Thank you so much. If somebody wants to connect with you and learn more about your work and get obsessed with what you got going on, where is that, how can connect with you? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. On Instagram at behavior hack, I may have changed it by the time you're listening to this -- Okay. Speaker Chase Chewning: -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: to Zach Pogrob, so just look up either of those. Either Zach Pogrob, and my newsletter. It's really good every Saturday. I just Speaker Chase Chewning: signed up by the way. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Thanks. Yeah. It's actually the best thing I make. It's like the smallest Chewning. Yeah. But it's getting pretty big now. But every Saturday I send out like ten things I'm obsessed with, just like links basically Speaker Chase Chewning: in quotes. Speaker Zach Pogrob: So that's at just zach dot blog, z a c h dot blog. And yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: But you guys definitely I would really encourage you to check out the video on this one, not because, you know, we got an amazing studio here, but I I think it's so pointed to what we're talking about obsession. When you hear somebody talk about something, it's one Chewning, and that can translate really well. But you got a tune and you got to see Zach. So many points during this conversation, man. I can see your entire demeanor, your energy. It's just it it it goes from like good to greater, great to greater. So the obsession's real. The obsession's real, man. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Thanks, man. Speaker Chase Chewning: Beautiful. Let me kill the interview there. Last thing where we head out, get a little intro clip. So introduce yourself, name, title, whatever you wanna say, and then give the audience ready to kinda, you know, hear a couple bullet points, a little summary, you know, on Everford radio today, I talk about boom boom boom, boom, or if you have kind of that thing already that describes you and your mission and what you would generally say, you can, you know, rip that as well. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Sure. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Well, my leg almost went to sleep. If I have you look right in here and then I'm just gonna get a little BTS video over here. Alright. Speaker Zach Pogrob: If I fuck it up, don't be mad at me. Speaker Chase Chewning: I'll take your The most I've had I had someone run through, I think, like, nine times. That's a lot. Yeah. It was a little like, okay, come on. But we'll do a couple, whatever you need Speaker Zach Pogrob: to share. Good to go in there? Speaker Chase Chewning: In here in this guy. Yep. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Okay. Today, on the Ever Forward Radio, we talked about the path of following obsession. My name is Zach, Pogrob on Instagram at behavior act. My mission is to inspire a billion people to follow obsession. We talked about the relation between ever forward and obsession. We talked about living creatively, how fitness is a creative act, and my whole story with finding what I really cared about and making it spread through content. Thanks for having me on. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah? Okay. Let me just get one more just to have it. Okay. I typically prefer to get to it. Yeah. Yeah. So introduce you and then in the episode. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Okay. Speaker Chase Chewning: That's a sorry. I was gonna I love kinda like the direction you were going. I love all those points. It was like spot on to our conversation. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Cool. Yeah. What's up, guys? My name is Zach Pogrob on Instagram at sorry. No. You're good. What's up, guys? My name is Zach pogrom on Instagram at behavior hack. Today, on the ever forward radio, we talked about obsession, living creatively, how fitness is truly an act of create. I wanna redo because I I say creation too much. Can I go again? Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. Yeah. All you men. Speaker Zach Pogrob: What's up, guys? Today, on the Ever Forward Radio, We talked about obsession on I didn't intro myself one more time. What's up, guys? My name is Zach Pogrob, On Instagram at behavior act, today on the ever forward radio, we talked about obsession how fitness is a creative act, and how I personally went from a really confused college kid to finding what I was truly obsessed with. It was a great episode. Hope you love it. How's that? Is that alright? That one do is that much. Thanks, Jeff. Speaker Chase Chewning: It's a Speaker Zach Pogrob: great talk. It was good. We got some good stuff in there. It's only because you have good stuff Speaker 3: through your workouts. Just so many things I wanna touch going on, but the the three line that I wanted was fair. So hopefully, you know, it made sense for you. Speaker Zach Pogrob: It was great. It was great. I think this might have been the record for saying the word like so many times. Yeah. A part of me always told you Speaker Chase Chewning: there's been a rough find what Speaker 3: I think is the thing Speaker Zach Pogrob: with somebody to guess, you Speaker Chase Chewning: gotta be so tired talking about this shit. No. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I don't get tired of it. But, right, because you're the obsession now. It's like a meme it's almost like a meme now, which is like, That's like the point, you know. It's like, I was listening to like a thing about Logan Paul and how like him showing Prime is like a meme, you know? And it's like, but that's the point. And it's it's I like that, you know. So if it becomes a meme that I talk about a lot, that's it means I like succeeded. So, but that was good. All the questions are good. Appreciate you, man. Speaker Chase Chewning: Oh, my pleasure, man. Thanks for making time. Speaker 3: Yeah. Shout out Danny again to connect to me. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Danny's the legend. I talk about Danny every time I'm in here. What Speaker 3: are you talking? Speaker Zach Pogrob: I'm starting to know my friend. He has like one of the biggest like, you can't see it just like looking at him, but behind the scenes. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: One of Speaker Zach Pogrob: the most insane networks he's building. Know, through podcasting. Speaker 3: He reached out about two years ago we got connected to our mutual friend. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Really? Speaker 3: I went on show and that's my first introduction to him, you know, just like two years manages to see Speaker Chase Chewning: -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: the obsession become even more. Yeah. But, I mean, Speaker 3: the way he's building, just the people on the caliber in the variety really like hats off to Dan. Speaker Zach Pogrob: He's a really, really good friend, Danny. Yeah. He's a legend. Yeah. On there, a hundred percent. I believe it. Every time I drive by, I send him a picture. Yeah. I'd say, you know, whenever we land Speaker Chase Chewning: Really? You do too? Speaker 3: I was at the train station from DC. Where did you see before and we popped right right up. Was it Penn station? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Pen station. Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: I walked over there. Speaker 3: Oh shit. I think that sounds to Danny. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Dude, that's so funny that you did it too. Yeah, I do it every time. It's we went to a concert that we saw Jerogan there too. Meet him and it was like, it was like a surreal thing for him. You know? Speaker 3: So it'll be next. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. Alright, problem. Speaker Chase Chewning: Then we got a lot of beautiful photo here just Oh. No. On the iPhone. Lease and then -- Speaker Zach Pogrob: I feel shoes. Speaker Chase Chewning: -- which kind Speaker 3: of those. These are called hot next night. I Speaker Zach Pogrob: I call on whites once too, but I like those better. Speaker Chase Chewning: The same Speaker 3: I've had for years, Speaker Zach Pogrob: and I Speaker 3: actually rotate the same through. It's the Speaker Zach Pogrob: way to go, man. Speaker 3: You actually have to do any laces or anything. Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: I feel Speaker 3: I should almost wear the same pants. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Are these the lulu ones too? Yeah. I just wanted to have other culture. Me too, man. So that's I've had Speaker 3: so many of her pairs. Speaker Zach Pogrob: The so comfy years. Speaker Chase Chewning: I had one. I was like four years old and the butt scene started to realize that Speaker 3: you did end to get me over and over. Speaker Chase Chewning: Really? Yeah. Speaker Zach Pogrob: Yeah. That's pretty sick. Speaker Chase Chewning: Yeah. The triple high bundle, is it? Speaker Zach Pogrob: Did you already done? Yeah. Speaker Chase Chewning: What am I Speaker Zach Pogrob: doing with my hands? I'm need like a hand signal for a session. Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like Or something. Speaker Chase Chewning: That's the mood. There you go. Speaker Zach Pogrob: It's a little culty. I don't wanna get too far. Okay. I'll I'll think about that. Speaker Chase Chewning: I mean, we can