EFR 697: Making Your Relationship Hot Again and How to Raise a Family While Breaking Taboos with Ashleigh Renard

Speaker 1:The following is an operation podcast production.

Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Ashley Renard, author Swing and creator of The Viral How to Keep Monogamy Hot Video Series Today with Chase on Ever Forward radio. We talk about sex clubs, how kissing a girl made me realize I needed to get better body lotion. How to raise boys with integrity. How letting kids change your mind may be the bravest parenting decision you've ever made, and so much more. I hope you love it.

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Speaker 1:Hey, welcome back, everybody. Now talking about relationships and even sexual health is something not new to the show. But this episode is taking a pretty unique, a pretty candid and honestly total disclosure semi, I'll even say explicit approach to the life of swinging. What it means to navigate the intimacy of a partnership of a marriage in and out of the bedroom. What modern intimacy, modern marriage, modern relationships, modern desires might look like for some people. Now, I say explicit just to the fact of maybe playing this out loud at work or publicly or in the presence of your children may or may not spark some unwanted attention. But everything is tastefully and eloquently explained here from my guest, Ashley Renard, a k a, the Carrie Bradshaw from Married People. She's gonna be talking candidly about the taboos of swinging. Yeah, you heard me, but not quite in the light that you might think how to raise a family.

Speaker 1:More specifically, how to raise boys, young men with integrity and her secrets to making your marriage, your partnership as epic as possible. All we ever want in a relationship or marriage, I think most of us would agree, is for our partner to want us right, to want us intellectually, physically, emotionally, sexually. We want to feel love and desire in every part of life. I think that's just human nature and a big, big way, especially in the bedroom. So, listening to this incredibly raw and real discussion about overcoming the challenges of marriage and keeping monogamy hot even decades after your wedding day. You might recognize Ashley from her book Swing, a memoir of doing it all in the incredibly inviting, incredibly viral video series, how to Keep monogamy hot. She's also the host of Keeping it Hot, a brand new amazing podcast all around. Well, what you're gonna hear today on the show, this was created to improve your communication in and out of the bedroom.

Speaker 1:Ashley joined me in studio. We sat down for quite a while, so I'm gonna keep this intro a little bit shorter today because she held nothing back and she was such an incredibly warm and inviting guest. We wound up just going down a lot of different avenues and how they all come back to how we feel in our relationship, how we want to feel in our relationship, and what it's like really to navigate not only unique taboo or difficult acts in a relationship, but just what are some of those conversations that we might be hiding behind some of those topics, even before they get to a conversation that we even feel just bringing up with ourself or bringing up with our partner is incredibly taboo or dangerous or risky. Today's episode is going to help all of us get a better understanding of what we want for ourselves, for our relationship, and how to properly and respectfully voice everything we want so that we can have truly everything we want in life for our own personal happiness and fulfillment and pleasure.

Speaker 1:There's personally, I believe absolutely not nothing wrong with that. We all should deserve the life we want. Whatever our boundaries are, whatever our curiosities are, whatever our interests are. If we can find a way to navigate them first and foremost with ourself, and then present them to our partner, well, I think we are gonna find a lot of freedom. In honesty, I will have her book linked toward You down in the show notes if you wanna check out the hard copy. Also, the audible is another great way to go. If you want to throw on your AirPods or just listen with headphones and kind of listen in the background while you're maybe running some errands, doing some chores around the house, or maybe listen to it with your partner. This might be a great listen in the car. You can get your first free 30 day trial from Audible, which equates to your first free book. So why not scoop up Ashley's book Swing? You can actually get it at no charge, like I said, free with your trial. Just head to audible trial.com/ever. That's audible trial.com/ever. As always, everything we talk about here is linked for you down in the show notes under episode resources.

Speaker 2:So on social media, I started getting these dms from men who thought they were the only straight man following me, and they would say, I know that that's what they thought. Cuz they would start it with, Hey, I know this is weird, but I'm a straight guy who follows you. And it was, it was weird that they put in straight. I don't know, I think that they just really thought I was talking to women. I was just talking, I was just talking like, I don't care what gender of person I'm talking to. Like, you know, I worked

Speaker 1:For sexual preference, gender. No,

Speaker 2:No. Like

Speaker 1:Association, anything. Yeah,

Speaker 2:I, I'm all about what makes us human, what makes us different, what makes us the same. Like I'm, I'm more concerned with just like the human experience mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I'm super curious about that. So I just speak in general, um, and they would say, Hey, I know this is kind of weird, but I I'm a straight guy here following you and I just love your content <laugh>. And so I started posting that in my stories when I would get those dms. Oh yeah. And I would say sharing the message, you know, and I always, and this is one of the ways I scale intimacy on social media Hmm. Is that when I get a DM and I answer a question, I'm super responsive, super, super responsive. Partially because it teaches me so much. When someone says, I love this. I say, tell me more about what resonated with you.

Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I wanna continue the conversation because I want to deeper my understanding. It's kind of surprising to me that people like my sex advice. Yeah. <laugh>, it honestly is, I think it's really basic ass sex advice. I think I'm vanilla. I don't think I'm very kinky. I don't think my ideas are revolutionary, but the, the hunger for basic advice around intimacy. Mm-hmm. And communication and cooperation and intimacy. Cuz all anybody really wants is for their partner to want them. I mean, period. Yeah. Yeah. And in the bedroom there's such an opportunity, therefore the signals to be crossed mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And for us not to have the vocabulary for how to talk about it. I mean, it's kind of good that we didn't see our parents talk about sex a whole lot because I've had people say to me, my parents were super open about sex and it was all actually too much. Like, I don't need to know my dad's girlfriend's kinks. And I would agree <laugh>. Right? Like, does anybody wanna know that? No, I, no,

Speaker 1:That that'd be interesting. I don't know. So if that is you, please write in, uh, let us, I mean, for scientific research purposes only. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Let's, we're not gonna yuck your yum if you're like, I wanna know what my parents are. Okay.

Speaker 1:Would yuck your yum. That's

Speaker 2:Not mine. But yet that, that's amazing. That's, that's like a saying for, and this is something that, that in

Speaker 1:Like, I wanna put you down for what you're into. Exactly.

Speaker 2:I love that. That sounds, isn't it? I don't wanna yuck your yum. Like this thing that you think is great and you go, Ooh, yuck. You know, that's just, that's a real, excuse me. Ah, that's a real buzzkill in the bedroom. Okay. But I started sharing these dms on my stories with, you know, the photo cutoff mm-hmm. <affirmative> and anything, even if they said their wife's age or how many kids, I would just like, you know, blur

Speaker 1:It out. Be as generic as possible. Just

Speaker 2:Generic. Yeah. And honestly, sometimes I share things that are so generic that people just put their own imprint on it. Like they assume what gender, whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that's fine. Which

Speaker 1:Is kind of good, right? It kind of best takes a lot of like the best natural bias and stuff out of it.

Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. Or it strengthens it, it's both ways. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I kind of have to take a look at it. I would share these dms from single men who thought they were the only one in my audience and say, hi, I received these DMS a few times a week. I just want you to know straight guys. Like, yeah, you're, you're not alone here. And then I would get, say, four more dms right after I would post it and say, oh good. Cuz I thought I was the only one. Then. Now my audience, the people who have been around for a while, because I've been making this kind of content, which this kind about keeping monogamy hot mm-hmm. <affirmative> for oh, two and a half years now, the people who are around know 90% now of my dms are from men. Wow. Really? My most engaged audience members are men. The people who are leaving the raving reviews are men. And the, the book swing, the one that they're leaving the reviews for. It is my story about being miserably married to a man. How

Speaker 1:Does your husband feel about all this?

Speaker 2:So he's incredibly rock solid. Mm-hmm. And also I think that there's a part of him that doesn't understand the scope of what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. And that, that kind of goes both ways in our marriage. He has so much trust and faith in me. And I've always been someone who's very in her career, like, you know, from the time we met to 2019. And so we had three children during this time, I was away at skating competitions. It rinks all around North America, five to 10 days a month for half

Speaker 1:A you guys year. You had distance, you had trust, you had a lot of that built in. Foundational

Speaker 2:Trust, distance, time with our own friends. We've always had a lot of space even though we've basically been dating since two minutes after we met. We had our first mortgage

Speaker 1:Together. We call it day zero. We, we met, uh, I tell me, tell me how you met. This is public. This is public, but I, I just, it's funny, anytime I say this, my wife is the longest one night stand I've ever had. I love it. We met, things happen and we got married. <laugh>.

Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. I love it. And can

Speaker 1:I, so literally ever since we met, we've been together. I

Speaker 2:Love that so much. And can I tell you? Mm-hmm. Okay. So I wrote, I wrote a book about my failed attempt at the swing lifestyle. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I talk about sex. Like I talk about the weather. I've never had a one night stand in my life. Really? Never.

Speaker 1:Which, like, to your credit, like, it's a surprise to me to hear that. I know people are surprise, but why should it be really? Well,

Speaker 2:I think that

Speaker 1:There's just immediately just came with, yeah. Like, let's, let's talk

Speaker 2:About why, let's talk about why. Right. I think that people think if women like sex mm-hmm. <affirmative>, yeah. I'm gonna just put it on women now and then we can explore around men. If women like sex, they must have been promiscuous, right? Yeah. At some point. Okay. I was very interested in sex. I was the one who was always the protagonist in relationships. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I was the one who was always like, could we try this?

Speaker 1:I've heard you before, say you were always the gas pedal.

Speaker 2:I'm always, I'm the gas pedal in life. Yeah. So that in the bedroom mm-hmm. <affirmative> that happened as well. Um, I always like thought, oh, is this gonna happen? And like, kind of orchestrated in some ways mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, I say orchestrated, I was always, always very cognizant of consent mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I was really so excited to experience life in all the ways Yeah. And experience being a grownup in all the ways. And for me, sex was one of those things. And also I know my body mm-hmm. <affirmative> physically and sexually. So I was a figure skating competitor for decades. And then a coach for 23 years, like a exercise physiology major, you know? So you and I, so yeah. You and I should bachelor

Speaker 1:Exercise science, same thing. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:So understanding my physicality was always like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like I knew it like the back of my hand. So I, I knew what I wanted in the bedroom. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you

Speaker 1:Knew what you were physically capable of

Speaker 2:As well. I knew what I was physically capable of. Comfort. Exactly. I knew to get there. Yeah. So every person I've ever slept with has been my boyfriend. I would wait at least a month before I would have sex with someone, because honestly I was having great orgasms on my, myself, by myself before I ever dated anybody.

Speaker 1:Yeah. I was gonna ask was, is that like a rule for like, uh, I wanna make sure this is gonna be a real relationship or

Speaker 2:Was this kinda like how things unfolding? It just, it was kind of an arbitrary, it wasn't an arbitrary thing that I set in my mind and I didn't even tell anybody that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it was something that I was like, no, no, no, let's just see. Because I get excited about things really easily. Yeah. But I'm not impulsive. Yeah. And it kind of like, having spoken

Speaker 1:You

Speaker 2:Several times now, I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm mean I'm excitable, but I'm not impulsive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay.

Speaker 1:You've got a zest. Zest, you got a zest. You

Speaker 2:Know what zesty means? Hot and Greek. Really? Yeah. My husband's Greek and wow. I'm really close to my in-law. So zesty.

Speaker 1:Yes. You've got, uh, what? Um, my wife is Persian. So in, in Persian, Farsi, there's, this term kind of goes a lot of different ways, but I would use it to say, you've got a lot of [inaudible]. Ooh, I love it.

Speaker 2:Tell

Speaker 1:Me more about that. Like, you've got like, it's more than just like desire. It's like the energy, the ooph, the motivation, the gusto, the like just innate. Let's get up and go and kind of do this. You've got [inaudible].

Speaker 2:Absolutely. Like I, have you ever done Clifton's strengths profile? Like now discover your strengths. Oh,

Speaker 1:It's a, a long time ago. Okay. It's a great, my, my last job actually. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Okay. So, and it's great for teams. It's great. I, but also in marriages and families. Like, I look at my marriage, I look at my family like the most important startup that I have ever put my heart into. I wanna know how we work together. I wanna have, I wanna have cohesion. I wanna lean on each other with our strengths, you know what I mean? Like, lean on each other for our strengths.

Speaker 1:I wanna have team meetings. I wanna have accountability. Oh,

Speaker 2:Absolutely. Chain

Speaker 1:Command <laugh>.

Speaker 2:I, I do. And I want also, I'm with you. I want everyone in my family, those are my kids to rise up as leaders. Mm-hmm. Listen, I had a, I had a time clock with most of the athletes and most of the kids I worked with, they were with me from the time they first walked in my rink till they graduated high school. So at the longest it was like 12 years I would have a kid. Wow. Wow. Wow. But I would have some kids for 12 years.

Speaker 1:That's like a whole nother maternal figure. Oh,

Speaker 2:Well it is, it was almost like, it's not like even being a school teacher, cuz you're with the same kids every single year. It's almost like being another maternal figure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or like, say a nanny that's intricately mm-hmm. <affirmative> intricately involved in a family for like a decade sometimes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as soon as I pushed out my children, the time clock started for my, my bandwidth of influence or my time of influence mm-hmm. <affirmative> with them mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's with them. So, and I think cooperation is one of the most incredible superpowers that we all have. And I think that we're all wired for cooperation.

Speaker 1:I mean, look at what has happened in humanity when one group cooperates with another, when one person cooperates with another. That's like the only way things get done.

Speaker 2:It is. And the, and the way involved, the way, the way that we do that actually is by having an openness to having our minds being changed mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I coached kids for a long time. That's so

Speaker 1:Important.

Speaker 2:Okay. Right. So I'll say that. I'll say that again. An openness to having your minds being changed. Okay. Teenage girls are my favorite demographic of humans.

Speaker 1:Said no one ever

Speaker 2:<laugh> except me. Right. That's the thing. Well, listen, I don't,

Speaker 1:And I don't even have kids tonight. Well,

Speaker 2:But, but also there are these stereotypes, there are these tropes around teenage girls. But, you know, because of the sport, I chose that the, that was my gang, you know, and what I had to do was figure out, okay, how do I work with what I've got here? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> as far as like the bravado, the stubbornness, the like insecurity, like the whole, the whole kitten caboodle of being

Speaker 1:A teenager. I can't change any of that. But what I, I can, I can hold space and be a container and try to like soundboard mirror. Absolutely. Mentor. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Absolutely. Because here's the thing, in the army, they break you down to build you up, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you're gonna try to break down a teenage girl, um, they're, they're, you're gonna get broken down first.

Speaker 1:Yeah. God speed. Right. So, so,

Speaker 2:But because they've got this power, because they feel pretty powerless and like the changes in their body that happen way before their male peers, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the emotions, the,

Speaker 1:They got hormones. Well, working against them in their favor, however you wanna look at it. Long one, anybody. Yeah.

Speaker 2:And the, it's actually like a power that they have that I see in them. Right. I had my period when I was 11 years old. Oh, wow. I, I look at my kids, my boys. I have a 15 year old or 13 year old and a nine year old.

Speaker 1:Which one did I meet? Which one did you meet? I think it was the oldest one. Jack.

Speaker 2:He's

Speaker 1:Tall. Really tall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's

Speaker 2:Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And he was probably coming home early from school cause he's a freshman in high school. He's back,

Speaker 1:Back on and everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2:When I was explaining menstruation to them, cause I explained everything all the time, and I said, oh yeah. And I was 11 when I got my first period, my 13 year old, his eyes, like, his mouth dropped, his eyes were wide. And he thought of our neighbor Kendra, who was 11, and he goes, oh wow. Like Kendra,

Speaker 1:You make it real immediately. Yeah.

Speaker 2:And I, and I thought, and I said, yeah. And he was like, like, it just seemed like such a crazy thing to be happening to your body and responsibility for a child. But girls have that. Girls have that. Right. So there's just all of this resilience and power in there. So in order to get 16, 18, 20, 80, sometimes teenage girls to get along and take my marching orders. Wow. I didn't break them down. I dropped my ego and I would look and think, what is the common thread of strength here? Or what, what is the note we can all hit? Where's the resonance naturally? And let's build up from there. Where is the cooperation happening easily? And then allowing myself, and I mean, I think this was just trial and error, but

Speaker 1:It sounded like you would've made a great, uh, military officer. Well, I, I mean that's like what I'm hearing you describe is like what I would imagine to like, serve under. I mean that is like, I

Speaker 2:Am a premium leadership. I'm very, I am a very good leader. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I am very uncomfortable holding people accountable when they don't wanna hold themselves accountable. That's where it breaks down for me. And that's probably been the biggest struggle in my

Speaker 1:Marriage. Well, that's when you can lean on us. The, the NCOs to do all the dirty work for you. <laugh> the account accountability. <laugh>. Well,

Speaker 2:But, but

Speaker 1:That was my world.

Speaker 2:That's amazing. That's amazing. But my husband isn't that great at accountability either. And I think that's why we got ourselves into a position in our marriage where we ended up at swinger sex clubs, not thinking there was something wrong with our marriage. Thinking our marriage was rock solid. Like super big chip on our shoulders.

Speaker 1:I've got questions for that.

Speaker 2:Ask all the questions. This is

Speaker 1:What we're gonna get into next.

Speaker 2:Yeah. We ended up there because we thought our marriage was rock solid. We thought our marriage was so rock solid and we were so good at parenting and, and like, we had three kids at this point. We've been married 10 years. We'd never even had a fight. We were like booming in our businesses. Like I just tripled the size of my business. He was in the stock market. It was just, he was killing

Speaker 1:It. So you're like, we're untouchable. So un was it, was it that kind of like, we

Speaker 2:Felt astonishment or likeable?

Speaker 1:Ego egotistical.

Speaker 2:No ego. Mm. We just busted our asses forever. Like okay. We met when we were 21 and 22 first job outta college. We were the only two trainers hired at this little gym in New Jersey. And 11 months later we had our first mortgage. Mm. Fast forward 10 years, we have three kids. We have three rental pr, we have three PR real estate properties. Yeah. Zero mortgage on any of them. Wow. Like we were intensely responsible. Yeah. So and so people go, how could you do something so risky as go to sex clubs? No. We had such a chip on our shoulder.

Speaker 1:And listen, honestly, I think multiple mortgages is more risky than going to a sex party with your partner. I mean, consensually going in, man. I don't know. Like, you know what,

Speaker 2:Everybody would say something different. I think that's, but yeah. That's for you, right? Yeah. I mean, <laugh>, we had, we like had leveraged ourselves. Yeah. Well we had leveraged ourselves and then, you know, paid it back and then owned it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, do you know what I mean? And we just like, and I'm holding my hands like this because I think that we just, we really looked around and we were like, check the box. Check the box. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we have great sex. Neither of us are jealous. This is the kind of thing that we could do for some excitement to like let off some steam. And here's the thing, two thirds of people who go to swinger sex clubs. And if any of your audience is curious, you probably have, you probably have at least a handful of clubs in every city. Probably one or two of them are good. And if you go to it, it'll be packed hundreds of people every

Speaker 1:Day. Yeah. Any of my LA people. Like you don't have to go far <laugh>.

Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, yeah. Right. It's, it's, it, they're gonna be great.

Speaker 1:I think they sublease next door and I'm just kidding. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Right. <laugh>, um, two-thirds of people who go to sex clubs are not intending to interact with anybody but their partner. They're going there for the atmosphere

Speaker 1:That out after looking more into to you and a lot of what you're talking about. Yeah. Um, there, this actually some, like, again, bringing bias in, bringing assumption in that was like a very surprising fact because when you hear sex club swinging, you assume it's gonna be the full end of the spectrum.

Speaker 2:Oh yeah. You think it's like a watch party or a key party in the mm-hmm. <affirmative> seventies. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> where like, you know, this is like the lore mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's probably cuz there's truth in it that there'd be a bowl in the middle of the coffee table and all the men would put their car keys in and then the women would go and pick and then go to a bedroom with those men. Damn Right. Which is like, that's like the X games of swinging. Like to that that like, no, very few people actually do that.

Speaker 1:Why? Why is because that's like that just, that's so up so much is up to chance and risk and like, not really your say in picking what you do in comfort

Speaker 2:Level and all, there's just not very much control in that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, especially for the woman and going into that lifestyle. I had read that like women really sort of drove the direction.

Speaker 1:I would make that assumption as

Speaker 2:Well. And they do. They do. But it's not that it's a completely feminist environment. Like who's dressed up in the tight little dresses and the high heel, it's the women mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and the men like put on a collared shirt or whatever. They're like, I'm gonna shave and manscape and I'm gonna show up. Right. But the, the women are really the star of the show and like, they're the ones who are more like, and also it's like a bit heteronormative with like, there's not a lot of like male to male contact, but like women kissing on the dance floor. So they're, it's not a completely, like really progressive mm-hmm. <affirmative> space in a fully progressed way. But it's much more open than most people have experienced growing up or what they've heard about sex, especially what they've heard about married sex. Hmm. So I would say one third of the people who are there are there at a sex club on a Friday or Saturday night because they wanna interact with another couple in some way. Whether just like, you know, the wives are going to, they're gonna find someone that their wife can have a little experimentation kissing another woman or like fondling, you know, some manual play or something. Or, um, they're gonna actually do like a soft swap with the other couple where

Speaker 1:Like, okay, so what's a soft swap? A

Speaker 2:Soft swap. Okay. So full swap is when there's actual

Speaker 1:Partner exchanges. Partners,

Speaker 2:Partner exchanges, partners usually that's in the same room even though Okay. And, and

Speaker 1:We're all here, we're all, we're we all got eyes on everybody.

Speaker 2:Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. And then full swap, separate room is like that X games, that's like the watch party or the key party Oh, okay. In the seventies. And that's just something that, I mean, usually takes people a long time mm-hmm. To get to. Um, we enter, it's

Speaker 1:Literally another room of trust.

Speaker 2:Literally. Yeah. Trust,

Speaker 1:Comfort, everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2:And safety. Mm-hmm. And then knowing that your partner's going, going to be able to enforce their own limits mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because when you go to separate rooms, there are probably still rules mm-hmm. <affirmative> that like a couple has, um, decided about like

Speaker 1:I Yeah. I would assume.

Speaker 2:Okay. Like, and, and like, so really specific, like e I want your audience to know that nowhere is it like just green light on everything. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. Like even if couples do full swap, there's situations where okay, maybe you don't actually ejaculate in someone, even if you're wearing a condom, you pull out because like if you were to get someone else pregnant, like Right. Yeah. Right. Like it takes responsible ejaculation to the next level, which I think is actually the level that I think everybody should start at. Like I've told, I have three boys

Speaker 1:Start that reverse engineer. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2:I, I have three boys. And ever since I started talking to them about reproduction, I've said,

Speaker 1:And I've heard this too, this was on the zoom call when your son came in. Yeah. Because we were like, we were talking about this stuff, kind of the going away ideas and he walked in and like, I, I mean he's not Mike yet. I didn't know what was okay to keep talking about or not. And you just went, you actually had him kind of step in, you go and I, he like picked up where you left off kind of

Speaker 2:Thing. He did because it's been, it's been the refrain since he was probably five years old. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I've said it's very hard for a lot of people to get pregnant, but staying not pregnant is incredibly easy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you never put sperm somewhere a baby could grow. The only time you do that is if you're trying to make a baby. Mm. Okay. That's the only time. And so I'm married to a very responsible ejaculator <laugh> and we, we actually prefer for him to pull out Wow. Because I like it better. I just want let, let's, let's, oh, I, I'm gonna give the reasons, I'm gonna give the reasons I like it better. Wow. Because I don't like feeling really wet afterwards. Okay. And it makes quickies easier, especially if you're sneaking away from the kids mm-hmm. <affirmative> that I can just like,

Speaker 1:So it is more kind of like situational environment dependent?

Speaker 2:Well, no, we always just in general, like, I, like he, honestly, I have not had semen in my body since 2012 when we were trying to conceive my, our last child like that. We literally do not do it. Also, it kind of stings me like it's not, I don't know pH and it doesn't even depend on what he eats. Like I experienced this back when I was younger before I even met him. And I said, I actually just prefer you to pull out. And he said to me, oh good. I think, I think maybe one of the first times we were ever, we ever had intercourse, he came inside me and I was like, I actually prefer not, he's like, I do too. Cuz he likes to control his ejaculation. He would rather pull out and finish on his own with his hand. Interesting. Because listen,

Speaker 1:I've had past partners actually like literally get mad at me for pulling out. Oh,

Speaker 2:Well, because here's the thing, it feels really good, the pulsation,

Speaker 1:Some partners. Yeah. They're like, like that part really, really loves, and I'm interested to hear you kind of go the opposite,

Speaker 2:Which, okay. But I get

Speaker 1:It's totally fair and I

Speaker 2:Get the, the, that sensation feeling I know when, when he's close to pulling out because I can feel it. Right. Yeah. You can feel the difference, the pulsation

Speaker 1:Knowing your partner hardness, especially like, you kind of like, you can really know and it feels where, where you are. Yeah.

Speaker 2:It feels different. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> inside me, his penis feels different inside me in like the five seconds before he ejaculates mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and, but he likes to control his climax. I like to control my climax as much as possible. If we're using a toy, I use it. I, I hold it.

Speaker 1:Great. Both in control. Both in both in

Speaker 2:Control, because then you can edge more. Mm-hmm. Like, that's the thing, we're athletes, so we want like the PB every single time <laugh>, like, I wanna be breathless and sweaty and give 'em a high five. You guys

Speaker 1:Are going for PRS every time in the bedroom.

Speaker 2:Every fucking time. Like if my pants are coming off, I'm having three orgasms and at least one of thems gotta be like, that's top 10. Wow. That's top 10. Wow. I mean, and this is one of the things, like I don't phone it in with sex. I don't phone it in because it's too important to me that we connect that way. Yeah. And it wasn't always like that. Like when I was postpartum, when I, we were exhausted when we had kids who weren't sleeping. There were times that we went through the motions and like my mind would wander.

Speaker 1:No. Why was that? Because you were just trying to like, we want to keep this up, we don't want to lose the habit or Right.

Speaker 2:Yeah. We would

Speaker 1:Always have, I'm doing it maybe for more of the partner than, than me. I,

Speaker 2:You know

Speaker 1:What? All the above.

Speaker 2:It was the only way I got connection from him for a really long time. So even if things weren't good outside the bedroom, even if we were totally like missing each other's signals and cues outside the bedroom. There are a couple things we've always been good at. We're good. Co-parents, actually there are three. We make good financial decisions together and we're good in the bedroom. And here's the thing, I've never had bad sex chase because I know my body well enough. Yeah. That any partner I've had, I've been able, and I'm a coach, I'm a choreographer. I've been able to tell them up, down fast or slower. <laugh>. Right. Well, and my husband Wow.

Speaker 1:Says he forms a little bit off their baby. I need to stabilize your core a little bit. Exactly.

Speaker 2:A medial lateral. I mean, he's an exercise physiology major too. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, just a little more lateral.

Speaker 1:The eccentric part of this wasn't really in it for me. The rust was good, but like

Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean it's, that was amazing because, and we knew each other's and we were like in peak physical condition when we met, he was right outta college football. I was right out of, um, my last year of Oh, there competing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we, our, our bodies, we knew our own bodies and we quickly learned each other's bodies. And then every day we would help other people reach high levels of performance in the gym or in their sport. Wow. So like the physicality was always easy, but we, we aren't good at conflict. We aren't good at staying in a conversation long enough to get a resolution. We would just retreat and resent, or

Speaker 1:Like, that part really blows my mind the most. Uh, because I, again, another assumption here, I'm bringing it in. Yeah. Um, in partnerships, I feel like when everything else is not in alignment, there is no sex. Because it's like, well, I I, I think another assumption here in, in, in past experiences, um, the, if you're in a partner, male, female. Yeah. If the female is not getting all those other things, all those other needs met. If I'm not, she's not feeling seen or heard or respected or other, you know, forms of love, affirmation, gifts, you know, whatever that is. Sex is kind of like, like, no, that's the last thing that I want or is on my mind right now. And I think for guys, we're kind of, no matter what, we can go mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, sometimes I've had an emotional block up to where I'm like, I'm not feeling the love from you. You know, I'm not putting out kind of thing. Yeah. Which is so how did you guys get there?

Speaker 2:Okay. I actually think our marriage would've got better way sooner. Mm. If I wasn't as comfortable with sex, but because I knew I could have a satisfying sexual experience with him, even though I didn't like him very much or I didn't, I didn't feel very liked by him. I didn't feel very much loved by him. Yeah. But I knew the sex always worked. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he comes from a traditional Greek household, Greek Orthodox. Right. And he just assumed, like, my parents probably stopped having sex when I was really little. Like, it wasn't the vibe that, like, there's this kind of affection between my parents. Oh.

Speaker 1:So you're saying he was probably bringing in this kind of conscious or subconscious belief system that we're married. Now I don't need to make that a priority or

Speaker 2:That as much with you. Well, I, okay. There are a couple layers here. First with the sex part, I think he thought if we're having good sex mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're already in the top. Oh. Like we are ring we I rang the bell. Yeah. Like, like, we have

Speaker 1:A bell because we're having that in our, our partnership. Everything else has gotta be great. Or else she wouldn't be allowing this kind of thing.

Speaker 2:Well, no, I think he thought we don't fight mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we have incredible sex. The things I was asking for then he thought, he thought I was like asking for the cherry on top of the cherry on top of the cherry when I was ask, asking for foundational things. But one of, like I said, accountability. When I ask someone to do something and either they can't do it or they don't do it, I immediately think they're not capable. Or I shouldn't need that. I shouldn't have asked mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So then I went and tripled the size of my business. I did this, I did that. I homeschooled, I homesteaded, I home birthed like highest level of difficulty in fucking everything. And like, part of that is just my, if I'm gonna do it, I wanna really do it. And I love a challenge

Speaker 1:That that's you across the board. Across

Speaker 2:The board. Okay. Across the board. But I think that the fact that we continued to have good sex when we were emotionally distant was very confusing to him. It, I think that it probably, we would've got to a point, a breaking point sooner, but because sex was always so easy for us, then we actually ended up going to, you know, trying, trying non-monogamy and thinking. Yeah. He, and the thing is he, my husband didn't wanna hook up with anyone else. Mm-hmm. He wanted a sexy experience with me. He wanted that feeling of being alive with me. He, he said to me, like, and, and then if I could touch another woman's boob every once in a while and then go like, okay, like I'm not gonna complain. Like if I could

Speaker 1:Just probably like every guy ever Yeah. <laugh>, right. He's

Speaker 2:Just like, I just love like, like he's like, women's bodies are amazing and to touch them and I am straight, but in a sex club, I kissed a woman and I touched her skin and I was like, oh my God. Like, she's so soft. So then that day I

Speaker 1:Was like, what's your moisturizer? Well,

Speaker 2:Since that day, I, I am. Okay. So this is a scene in the swing. We are in a back room with other people. Okay. And this was totally my orchestration. Totally.

Speaker 1:Do we enhance the red lights here? Should we really set the move to this? Do

Speaker 2:Do, we're we at a club? Don Dun Don. Okay. We, we haven't interacted, we haven't interacted with anyone else. We've been to clubs a couple times and it's like, so exciting. And then we go and we have sex in a back room and then all the way home. We can't keep our hands off each other. Like it was the most dangerous driving probably that we've, we've done. Oh, you you were driving? He's driving. Oh, wow. But I have, like, my hands are, he has his hands here. Like I have always had, see I love sex, but I'm very controlled. I've always had a no road head policy. Like my whole life. I'm like, that shit is dangerous. Like, you can get a blowjob when we get home. <laugh> like, no, we are not driving under the influence of oral sex. But then we

Speaker 1:Leave everywhere, honey.

Speaker 2:Well, well no, I was like, it's not about getting caught, it's about getting

Speaker 1:Killed. I totally see it's absolutely. Or running like not an ideal driving scenario for safety.

Speaker 2:Well, and I just want you to push your head back, babe. Like, I want you to, you know, it's, it's different. It's like, it's completely different. But after being at a club and it being so sexy, like I could not keep my hands off him and he couldn't keep his hands off me. And we'd been married 10 years when we had three kids. Wow. Wow. Right. I'm, I'm like still at the point. That's

Speaker 1:Hard. That's, I mean, that's like, it's incredible. Exciting. Amazing.

Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, and to, to have that level of excitement mm-hmm. <affirmative> in a marriage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that spanned a decade already. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I mean,

Speaker 1:I had 10 years with my wife in two months since we've met and been together.

Speaker 2:Since you've met him. Since you're, since you're,

Speaker 1:This September will be seven years married. So

Speaker 2:Yeah.

Speaker 1:We're coming up at

Speaker 2:10. So, so this is your, it's a one night stand that landed, lasted a decade so far. I, I I love it so much. Yeah. I love it so much.

Speaker 1:In my defense, I love a quick, quick condensed version of this. She technically like, stalked me a little bit. I, she would like, I was barista barista, ring barista. I was a coffee guy, uh, in undergrad. And she would come into this coffee house I was working in, like literally stalked me for like six, eight months. And she never came up. She was like so nervous. She would never order from me. She would never come up to the counter. She would always have like, her girlfriends come and like, order for her. I was just like this. She said like, you looked like a baseball douche guy. I was like, thanks. Um, but she was like, no, no. Like you were hot and I just wanted to like, admire you from afar. And then like a couple months went by, she, we, we had a different, um, semester or something and she wasn't there. And then, uh, I

Speaker 2:Did you ever notice her? She

Speaker 1:Was there? No. Cuz she never came up. She

Speaker 2:Never came. She me up. She said, I literally, she like watched from afar.

Speaker 1:She said, I literally would sit at the furthest away spot in the cafe and I was always just the guy behind the counter. So you would come up and order and she would like, I would never come up to you. I would never make eye contact. I would just kind of like look at you from afar. I never noticed her. And I was in a relationship at the time. And when I'm in a relationship, I'm kind of like, you know, I don't even think about anything else really. Um, yeah. And so we met several months later, I walked into this party that my brother was having. She was being a wing woman for a friend who was trying to hook up with my brother. And then her friend turned around and she was like, oh, that's, that's the guy that's a coffee game. So she like, she kind of like had her her eye on me. And then I didn't know at the time, I thought I was like swooping in on my brother to help the whole situation. But the whole time she was like out for me. Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:I, she's a mastermind.

Speaker 1:I know. Which I felt like amazing. I was like, oh yeah, this is great. Like, you know, I swooped in, did my thing and she's like, I'm idiot <laugh>.

Speaker 2:You're like, no, no,

Speaker 1:No. I've been playing this for like eight months.

Speaker 2:Yeah. I had your number mm-hmm. <affirmative> from way back.

Speaker 1:And then she tried to get rid of me and I was already like hooked, hooked immediately. And now she literally couldn't get rid of me. And so then, yeah. No, here we are.

Speaker 2:Yeah. What was it? Was it just getting too serious too soon? Is that why she wanted No.

Speaker 1:Literally the, the next day she was just like, all right, like, just the like long drawn out, like see you later kind of thing. Like, uh, what's going on? I was like, let's go to brunch. Let's, let's hang out. Let's get all her friends together again. And I just hung out at her place again the whole day.

Speaker 2:Oh. But she wasn't expecting that, you know, there was this allure. Okay. Well I I

Speaker 1:I tricked her into giving, uh, massage, I think even Yeah, yeah. <laugh>

Speaker 2:Got it. But you were like, no, no, no, I'm

Speaker 1:In. I was like, yeah, I'm staying. Yeah. This is, this

Speaker 2:Is great now. And then she was like, oh. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the hot coffee guy is sticky. Uhhuh <affirmative>, right. Sticky. Sticky. Yeah. She's like, she just thought

Speaker 1:You stick

Speaker 2:<laugh> the 10 year stick. Right. Um, so I don't know where we were. I totally

Speaker 1:Dil

Speaker 2:Your story. I know, but way we're talking

Speaker 1:About like how you all were getting so hot and intimate and excited. 10 years. So here's

Speaker 2:The thing, when, when you're married mm-hmm. Or together with your partner for a decade, it's very rare that sex is that heightened. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like, in order to be get a rush like that, like you, you,

Speaker 1:That's like night one stuff. Like

Speaker 2:You need

Speaker 1:To, like's the first time you get into it. Well, no,

Speaker 2:But chase like, need to like buy an incredible house or have a baby, like, you have to need me. Like, sex doesn't do it anymore. Do you know what I'm saying? Mm. Like sex doesn't do it anymore. Like that you are just like, oh. Just like obsessed in just like ravenous and like, it just, it it, it's not a thing that really happens. And I have incredible sex. My partner, like I said, you know, my pants are coming off. I'm having three orgasms and like, I pr I know. And I, I, I, I want, if it's not like, like, and here's the thing. Oh, we had sex since I came to LA and I was like, yep, those orgasms weren't good. So I'm like, no, no, we're just gonna wait until we get home. Because like, I just, my mind's redo. Well, my mind's sort of like in work mode. Right. And, and it has to be in a different mode for, for sex. Um, but like, I want it to be great every time. Like, I wanna have sex worth having, you know, so at a sex club or after or for like the week after. Whoa. Like we're ripping each other's clothes off. Like, like wow. He's fingering me in the pantry. And like our kids are like, what the hell? Like, that doesn't happen. Right. Like, it

Speaker 1:Was like, like you're like sneaking around your own house.

Speaker 2:Sneaking around our own house. House, house. Yeah. Sneaking away from our kids. Like it is

Speaker 1:Hot. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:I know, right? Like, like just like, oh, ba like, Hmm. It's hot. <laugh>. We're like, why don't we go to sex clubs anymore?

Speaker 1:What? Everybody take a minute.

Speaker 2:We're gonna take pause, take a partial break. Um, okay, so we're at a club and so we've had this experience where we go and it's this incredibly heightened experience. It's like, it's like you're turning the volume up like max volume, right?

Speaker 1:Like louder than you even thought was possible. Probably.

Speaker 2:Well, and, and louder than even the first night. Because there's this whole, like, you have all this history mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you're very good at doing what you do. And then there's this extra whole frequency in it. It's, it's like the best sex of our lives. It's like

Speaker 1:A new level. You didn't even know us there. Oh

Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh yeah. Best sex we've ever had. Definitely was like at clubs or when we came home from clubs mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then in the morning, like we would like rip each other's clothes off in the driveway. Like I thought, oh my God, we're gonna have sex like up against the garage. Like it was so hot. Right. And it's not like, it's not like we're stoned, it's like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I've maybe had a glass and a half of wine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and maybe he's had one. I mean cuz he's driving and like, we're responsible. Drive. Right. Well,

Speaker 1:I's gonna get you some joy mode.

Speaker 2:It, we are just, oh yeah. We need to get me the joy mode. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then I

Speaker 1:Should have brought some, I didn't know <laugh>. I should have prepped better. Chase yet. <laugh>.

Speaker 2:Well, we're just gonna have to, we're gonna have to do a part too. And then you're gonna gimme the goods for Manny. Yeah,

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Speaker 2:So, but like any high mm-hmm. You go searching for the, the high or high. Mm-hmm. Right.

Speaker 1:So, so there's like a comedown and then I need more like Well,

Speaker 2:There is because

Speaker 1:Almost like a, like a fix in addiction. It

Speaker 2:Yeah. Very quick. And I mean, I'm really fiery and I'm really like when I'm like a dog on a bone, you know what I mean? <laugh>. So, so I know, I, I mean my, my discipline, I love how much you know yourself. Damnit I'm obsessed with knowing myself mm-hmm. <affirmative> because I had to know my athletes in order to get anything out of them. Right. If I had 16 teenage girls mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I didn't even pretend to treat them all the same. And I told them that. I'm like, I'll give each of you what I think you need from me. That's a great

Speaker 1:Coach. To be great coach. Yeah.

Speaker 2:To be who you wanna be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? So I shapeshift I'm just like, hi, we have a common goal and I would like to help you achieve it. Here's where I can, you know, just fit into your puzzle pieces and help you see what's possible for you. Because in most situations, situations, it wasn't about me performing. It was me getting someone else to perform. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. So you click in, you make them perform, but, and that rush of like, when things work, like it feels really great. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we're at a club again and now I'm like, okay, now I want, I want to like maybe have interaction with someone else. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and he's like, okay, well, you know, maybe like, so you guys have

Speaker 1:Kinda got your foundation down a little bit?

Speaker 2:We, well we have like a little like maybe something uhhuh but like we haven't gone through specifics. Okay. But we also have the understanding that me seeing him with someone else would not make me uncomfortably jealous in a way that then would be irreparable. Like, we already had that out. Like, we don't think we're gonna blow up our marriage and ruin life for our children.

Speaker 1:You told you kinda had your ground rules.

Speaker 2:Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:Like if then maybe

Speaker 2:If this, if that like, so, and, but that night was the first night I kissed another man. Mm-hmm. He was totally fine. Like that was like, that was like, he's like, did you even kiss someone tonight? Cuz like he was just like, just the whole thing was just so incredible and sexy. Yeah.

Speaker 1:Right. He's probably trying to take it all in.

Speaker 2:Taking it all in. Yeah. And probably me kissing the other woman was probably like, he was like, this is incredible. And I was like, oh my God, I'm never not putting lotion on after a shower again. <laugh>. And since that day,

Speaker 1:The independent takeaways are amazing. Well,

Speaker 2:It's just like it because that's the way my, my brain works. I'm like, oh my God, this skin, I mean, and she just had really soft skin. And the thing is too kissing a woman is way different than kissing a man who's past adolescence. Because even after a man shaves, like they're just, their face has a roughness to it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that I love. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, I've always had, I've always had partners with facial hair. Like every boyfriend I've ever had a, my great husband, they can grow beard in a minute.

Speaker 1:I shaved this morning.

Speaker 2:Yeah. I that's what I thought. <laugh>. I didn't, weren't you shaving when I walked in <laugh>?

Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. My wife lucked out. She married the, the hairiest white guy ever. Well and I fit right in with the Persians. Well, yeah.

Speaker 2:And I, I come from a line of Harry, Harry White guys. Like my brother's like a Canadian lumberjack dude, you know what I mean? Like harus blonde ass in the world. Right. And I know that cuz he moon us a lot, but anyway. Um, that's a good brother. Yeah, that's great brother. Um, and my youngest child is so much like him. It's so funny. So we're at the, we're at this club and actually this other couple approaches us, and they're younger than us. They're both like in their twenties. Okay. Like late twenties we're, we're like mid thirties. We have kids, they're, I, I don't even know if they were married yet. Like they were really new or maybe just married. Um, and they actually approached us and started talking to us. And I had noticed them earlier in the night cuz when we were just kind of walking around getting acclimated, of course I'm thinking, okay, if someone who would it be? Right. And they were

Speaker 1:Both taking little mental notes.

Speaker 2:Exactly. I'm like, yes, no, yes. You know what I mean? Like, swipe right. Left in my mind. Right, right. So then someone who I had swiped right in my mind and I hadn't said anything to my husband, they approached us,

Speaker 1:They, we've gotta match.

Speaker 2:Well, so yeah. But you just start talking and it's like really, really fun and casual and it's like nobody is sexually creepy in a sex club. I need people to know that men all around the world, on the subway, in the supermarket are way creepier than a man in a sex club. Like no man ever walked past me in a club and like put his hand on my back to pass me. No. Contrary, like, if a man was to walk past a woman in a sex club, they would probably hold both drinks up here. Oh yeah. And be like, Hey, excuse

Speaker 1:Me. Thanks. Totally clear. Totally clear. Well just like,

Speaker 2:Just really friendly. Like, hey. Yeah. Hi. And the eye contact mm-hmm. <affirmative> the like, Hey man, hey. Like the, the, this, you don't really walk past someone in a sex club without making eye contact. It's like everybody's here. We know what everybody's here for. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like, hi. You nod, you smile. So it's like,

Speaker 1:There's gotta be such a relief to get like, all that bullshit out of the way of, of like, why are you here? Why am I here? Like, small talk. I mean, just like, I mean just kind of take this analogy into just everyday interactions with other people, but also other couples and, you know, relationships and stuff. I feel like there's just so much of that, that it's like, like can we just get to the point of why we're really here? Like, not in a, like skipping to the good part kind of thing, but just like integrity, honesty, integrity. It's actually

Speaker 2:Intention, it's actually integrity and intention. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. There's no pretense. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's like, we're here cuz we would love to have a great sexual experience. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Awesome. So is everybody. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the thing is, we are here to have a great sexual experience and even people who routinely hook up with other couples mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they know it's not gonna happen every single time they go to a club. So it's like

Speaker 1:So much of the expectations are just like out the window. There's out the window. Everybody can just be who they want to be.

Speaker 2:And for a woman who, excuse me, I think the reason I chose synchronized skating, which is the most obscure discipline of figure skating. Like, it's the only one that doesn't go to the Olympics. Right. That's right. It's like the most expensive. It's the hardest. It's like the least well known. I like recruited for a sport no one knew existed for two decades. Geez. Like, I, I like, I like a

Speaker 1:Challenge. Well, I mean, it sounds very on brand with you.

Speaker 2:It's on, it's on brand. Before I knew I had a brand Yeah. I was like, why do I just go? But you know, I, I like excitement and I like challenge and I think a lot of us like that and we do it in different ways. I'm not a fast driver. I'm, I don't bungee jump. Like the way that I test my limits is like intellectually, you know, we can't

Speaker 1:Knock you for that.

Speaker 2:So, and, and so going to a sex club was almost an intellectual challenge for the two of us. Like, what could we really handle? Right. So when

Speaker 1:You're, you're really pushing the limits of the mind, pushing the

Speaker 2:Limits of the mind

Speaker 1:Won't ever push any limit of the body.

Speaker 2:Absolutely. And long before you even walk into a club mm-hmm. <affirmative> to have that conversation with your partner mm-hmm. <affirmative> to ask the honest question and think like this next question I ask mm-hmm. May cross the line, but you ask it anyway and you realize, oh, I didn't cross the line or mm-hmm. If you do, this is how we get back. Like it's really, it's like a game of chicken with your partner was like, how honest are we gonna be?

Speaker 1:Which I've heard you talk about before and uh, I had a little sneak peek, uh, cause I was with you yesterday on, uh, Reuben Rojas's show this concept of what actually could be the most taboo thing in your relationship. Yeah. And even the most taboo thing to get you to spice up your relationship, start having sex, enhance sexual experiences. Is that level of honesty of just questioning things. Not in a like a challenging manner, but just like really going, Hey, this is who I am, where I am. This is my level of curiosity, openness and honesty. And I want to put it out there with you. Like that. I think for so many people is way more taboo than ever stepping foot into maybe something like a sex club.

Speaker 2:And I say would say it is challenging, but it's not in a way that's, um, like oppositional. Right. Yeah. Right. Like, it's

Speaker 1:Not like a fight challenge.

Speaker 2:Exactly. Like it's a growth opportunity. A growth opportunity challenge. Like, what could we actually do? Can we actually pay cash for another rental property in 12 months? Can we, yeah, let's do it. Let's see if we can mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know what I mean? Like, that's the way that he and I both like, which having

Speaker 1:Hard financial conversations and I think is as hard if I even said this earlier. Yeah. If not even more sometimes than having perceived hard sexual conversations with your partner. Which why is that? You know?

Speaker 2:Well, you know what, the deeper that I go into my curiosity about, well, the deeper I go mm-hmm. Into my quest to have a fucking incredible marriage, like an epic marriage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like I, that, listen, some of us have strained relationships with our parents. Some of us don't love our jobs or our supervisors at work. Some of us have strained relationships with our kids or our siblings. Your marriage should be epic like that. That's the hill I will die on. Like, it should be epic. That's

Speaker 1:Really the only thing in life you chose. Well, um, maybe have an arranged marriage or something, but like,

Speaker 2:But for most of us, we chose, most of us we chose it. And so one at one point or several points over weeks or months or years, we thought, this is my person. This is the person that's gonna make life better. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, life is going to be better for me and for them. If we are together, then let's make it happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because

Speaker 1:We, we, yeah. My my wife actually came on the show a while ago and we had a whole topic around this of how choosing your partner, choosing your spouse is the most important decision you will ever make in your

Speaker 2:Life. Absolutely. And so many people when they feel dissatisfied two years in seven years, in 10 years in, think I chose wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I say no. I say no because I had, I had athletes who hated each other and I taught them how to cooperate. They didn't choose each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they chose me as a coach. And I said, you're gonna be on the same team together and you're gonna be beside each other and I'm gonna show you how to make it work. I'm gonna show you why you are gonna, you are going to rely on that person in ways that you never thought you would make yourself vulnerable enough to rely on another person. With that, you are gonna show up in your strengths for that person you hate because it is your job. See, in synchronized skating, maybe this is part of it. There are no stars. You have to look the same. It's a collective. It's a collective. Yeah. So if I shine brighter than my teammate Right. Defeats the whole point. Defeats the whole point. Yeah. Your literal job is to make your teammates look and feel as good as possible. And they're doing that for you.

Speaker 1:Same thing in the, I mean, we're not synchronized. Uh, well actually yes, you are in a way. Like, I mean there's

Speaker 2:So many

Speaker 1:Maneuvers. Similar h like we know, we know the tactics, we know the maneuvers, you know, we know what needs to be done, how needs to be executed. But in order for that to happen, like I have to make sure I'm looking out for the guy, the girl to my left, to my right. Everybody else. Absolutely. And everybody else is doing the same thing. Especially active

Speaker 2:Duty. Especially deployment. Like what? Like you're keeping your, you're keeping your teammates alive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how you

Speaker 1:Say alive is keep the other person alive.

Speaker 2:Exactly. And I mean, you had enemy fire, but every one of my athletes had blades on their feet. And some of them were only six years old.

Speaker 1:The kids. That's how I got this score actually, my very first time ice skating. Oh

Speaker 2:My gosh. Are you

Speaker 1:Serious? Yeah. Sorry to interrupt it like that on your face. I literally, my sister and I, she's, she was a great ice skater. Uh, she was like egging me on. I like ate shit on the ice. And like, I literally slid the whole straightaway cut open my eye in the corner of my eye right here. It was frozen. I had no idea I was on the

Speaker 2:Blade on the ice. I,

Speaker 1:I was like doing laps still just like bleeding, leaving a trail of blood on the ice rink. Yeah. They had to rush me the yo.

Speaker 2:Okay. And this leg right here, this is my leg. I have like, I can't remember. I wrote it in swing cause I counted 13 or 17 scars on this leg. Oh wow. From hitting with my right leg on double sal house, fucking double

Speaker 1:Sound. Luckily this wasn't a blade, this was just ice, but eating shit on the ice. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 2:But I mean, ice burn really hurts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it really, really hurts. And it scarred. Oh my God. That's

Speaker 1:Incredible. I was like 12 or 13 I think. Okay.

Speaker 2:Yeah. You got, you got your ice skating injury. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> we're the same. We're the same. Yeah. But this idea of, what were we just talking about Chase? Because when you were like

Speaker 1:Looking out in floor collect Yeah.

Speaker 2:The way you have to dial your ego down to say, my only job for this three minutes, this hour, this. I mean, performances were three minutes. Okay. We're

Speaker 1:Talking about ice skating or, so we're

Speaker 2:Talking about ice skating <laugh>.

Speaker 1:Sorry, I had to, I can't not make, I need to work on that. I

Speaker 2:Can't. Yeah. Okay. So

Speaker 2:Listen, the the amount of humility you need to have and the way you need to dial your ego down to say, my job is to take care of this person beside me. And I know, and like they would have, we would have lifts, we would have like, you know, we would have blades going by face the way that we had to be so specific and like, I'm teaching children this. Right. Um, you know, spirals were like, a blade will come right up by your face, but you know that your teammates going to put their leg up and then they're gonna feel your body against their leg before their leg gets high enough to your face. So they know it's in the clear. Wow. Like, I would teach six year olds this. So, and you had to stay safe otherwise, like you're bleeding, you're bleeding. And I mean, this is something that skaters learn really young.

Speaker 2:You may have a blade hit your pants or hit your tights and the tights may not be ripped. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't, that doesn't tell you what's going on underneath. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> human flesh. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is way more tender than any material manmade. So what I would do after I would nick my leg with my blade is I would pluck my tights and let them go back. And then I would count to three and see if any blood formed, if any blood was there. And if not, then I would just go set up for another jump. And if it did, then I would go into the locker room and I had a whole system where I would just like strip down my practice dress and pull my wow. Pull my tights and my dress right down and they would like lay like flopped out at my skates and I would just reach into my locker and be like, Hey, 1, 2, 3, how many bandaids do I need? What an

Speaker 1:Amazing lesson right here. I'm sure you are aware of as the coach, but like, as the children are learning to just like, take into every situation in life of shit hits the fans, something happens. I don't need to immediately react and possibly overreact, but if I can just bring a level of awareness to what just happened. Yeah. What is happening, what needs to happen next. Yeah.

Speaker 2:That's why. Absolutely. I mean, well because we had many crises every day mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Like, like in like when we had some big crises, like a lot of head injuries, a lot of like, I mean, there are a lot of things in sports and kids like, oh, I think sports are gonna really be changed change though, because like, we're realizing those little brains really need a bit more protection. And it's not just a helmet. It's like, we gotta reduce the number of impacts mm-hmm. <affirmative> like we just do mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. It's not that, it's like their, their body can't take that impact. It's not just the head mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, I mean, there's, there's work being done, but I, I had a very real situation where like, you know, I'm teaching these kids to cooperate and like, we're we're in the elements, right. It might be freezing. Some of the rinks we practiced in were natural ice rinks. Like literally it's like minus 20 or minus 30 in the rink. Right. And I'm saying Celsius, but minus, did you know minus 40 Celsius and Fahrenheit are the same.

Speaker 1:Uh, it's the point where they're the same degree, they're the

Speaker 2:Same minus 40 equals and then Fahrenheit dips lower, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so minus like 45 celss might be like minus 50 something Fahrenheit.

Speaker 1:I think that's where, uh, like the multiverse actually happens. It's a synchronicity. It's worth, you know, like a glitch in the matrix kinda thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2:I, I think so. So I like going in there <laugh> and then you breathe in through your nose and all your nose hairs freezes up and you get a brain freeze just through breathing oxygen and then Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're, it's like a portal. You're in a different <laugh> jump timelines. Jump timelines right there <laugh>. So, you know, so I'm doing this artistic sport that like a lot of people, like that was one of the shittiest things that I would say in my house growing up that left, was left unchecked was my brothers both younger than me saying my sport wasn't a sport. Okay. We're super shitty. It

Speaker 1:Sounds like a brother, so,

Speaker 2:Well it sounds like a shitty ass human actually. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah, because it actually sounds, sounds like a shitty ass human. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because you have your sport that you're doing and y then your sisters have the sport that they're doing that actually takes like five times as much time as yours. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but that one's not

Speaker 1:A sport, while also literally freezing your ass off.

Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, they played hockey, so it was like, okay, okay,

Speaker 1:There we go.

Speaker 2:But we have goals, we have fuck off <laugh>. Okay. But let's just say you said it's like a brother, right? Yeah. And my, my, listen, this is something from working with teenagers that, like I got, I got paid to tell other people's kids what to do for a decade before I had my own, which was super convenient because I got to be really clear on like, wait, how do I, how do I facilitate cooperation with kids and where are my limits and what do I allow things to be said by children and go unchecked mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:<affirmative>. And I want to live my life with integrity. And I didn't have that wording when I was like mm-hmm. <affirmative> 16 years old and started my first synchronized skating team in a nearby town and had like a whole skating club I was running there. Right. Like, that's when I started in my first position as a director and head coach when I was 16. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I just knew that I wanted everybody to know the rules for how we're treating each other. So when someone would say something Right. I would be like, wait a minute, let's just, let's pause for a second. Let's just examine that. So you said this, so we're saying that it's true or it's okay to say that or assume that. Right. And just like, is that okay? Do we all feel like Right. Just like I like pulling ideas, bring awareness apart

Speaker 1:Back into the moment.

Speaker 2:Exactly. I like just pulling ideas apart and going, wait a minute, what's really here? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like what is really felt or meant by that? Um, so I'm raising boys to be fucking awesome humans, like as much as I can mm-hmm. <affirmative> as much as I can. Right. So

Speaker 1:Like young boys, I'll say this real quickly. We need more women from a place of love to put more men in their place, to

Speaker 2:Put men in their place and show them where their place is. I think putting men in his place

Speaker 1:Or just date a Persian woman, they'll do that for you too. <laugh>. Well,

Speaker 2:Yes, but here's the thing. I put my husband in his place all the time mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I say, your place is at the grownups table with me. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Speaker 2:This is where you are. This is how I put my husband in his place. I go, wait a minute. We're we're not jiving here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like that, that did not f really feel good. Yeah. That didn't feel like integrity to me. Can we redo that? And it's like, I ask for redos all the time. That's the thing. I mean,

Speaker 1:That's love, that's growth. That's,

Speaker 2:That's growth. And I mean, that's essential. That's skating. Like, I fell way more times than I landed. Like if you look at my skates, I still have my skates from the time I was 14, my left skate, my takeoff foot for most of my jumps. The crease in that skate chase Hmm. Is so fucking deep. And the crease, am I right? So shallow.

Speaker 1:Wow.

Speaker 2:Because I landed way, way fewer jumps than I attempted mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So listen, we don't have to get it right. Like, who's gonna get it right the first time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and this is something that I've had to break down in my life because there were places where I understood it would take me practice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But there are a lot of places that if I don't hit outta the park the first time, I feel like a failure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I bring that to my kids and, and, and that with them too, so they can understand, listen, none of us need to be perfect. If I call you out on something that you did that does not seem like it's in alignment with your best self, then we get to try again. Hey, can you try saying that to me again? I'll just say to my kids. Pause

Speaker 1:And I'll just, I love that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that and cos on that. I love that parenting tactic. Yeah. Uh, I think this takes a lot of pressure off of like being a parent and feeling the, the pressure to like, I need to know what to say, how to say it, the right thing. How to correct kids and like be a parent so that I, they don't turn out the way that I did. You know, I'm never gonna repeat the mistakes and my parents kind of thing. Like just that level. I'm hearing this kind of through line in a lot of stuff you talk about for yourself and for the people around you. You introduce a pause, you introduce a moment for awareness to just like actually look at what is going on. Yeah. And to, you're, you're giving people a second chance. You're giving yourself a second chance, really, uh,

Speaker 2:A second chance and a fucking millionth chance. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's the thing that, like this, the swing is the story of me rehabbing my shabby marriage. Mm-hmm. Because when we took it to the limit mm-hmm. I realized, oh shit. Like we do not have the infrastructure for this. Hmm. Like our, we thought we had a Ferrari and we have a fucking go-kart. Hmm. Like, we have been so blind to the actual communication level. Like we're, we were probably communicating on the level of like 12 year olds when it came to really important things. Money was easy for us mm-hmm. <affirmative> to communicate. Cause we're like, let's be responsible. Okay. I mean, there were things that were so easy and we just put that on a pedestal that on a shelf, like those were the most important things. But the day to day, am I feeling seen?

Speaker 2:Am I feeling heard? Am I feeling valued? That was hard for us because we didn't have models around us for that. So we just put that under the rug. Like that's not, that's not really that important. Right. And then we get ourselves into situations where it's really testing what we're made of mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we realize, oh shit, we are actually, if, if you ask me what's keeping me in this relationship, I would say only my kids. Mm. And I like not having to worry about a mortgage mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so to, to be that honest with my husband and be like, I don't feel loved by you at all. Cause I mean, it take, it took a while to get there. Like, we, we had a lot of very sexual experiences on the way there, but the real taboo and swing is like, am I actually gonna be honest with myself? And that is one of the scariest things in the world because Chase, I was afraid, and I think so many people can resonate with this, that we think if we look down deep, we're gonna see something that we wish we would've never seen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're gonna see the thing that we are certain makes us unlovable.

Speaker 1:Oh. That's the, I believe what is awaiting us at the end of that tunnel, regardless of the thing that we're here to work on. It could be our sex life, it could be our job, it could be, you know, listening to a podcast, self-help. I mean, I think ultimately whatever path we embark upon to get to this idea or belief of a better self or building a better self, or getting home our true inner self, getting back there. I mean, I, I think all roads intersect at that, what you're talking

Speaker 2:About. They do. And you can go to it. Mm-hmm. It's so many different ways. Right. Like, I could have like, eat, pray, love. I could have like, you know, my husband's incredible. I could have actually said, listen, I, I need a month off from being a mom and a wife and I need to go figure my shit out. And he would've been like, babe, I just hope you come home to me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because that's all he really wants is for us to be together. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the way he acts that out in daily life doesn't always give me that message. Mm-hmm. Like, quite often it doesn't still interesting. The, our default for communicate, communicating, set us like this. They still do. So we have to like recalibrate to make sure we're going side by side again. That's,

Speaker 1:That's so honest. And I, I I hope the listener really hears that. That is such an honest part of a relationship. Yeah. It's this facade that I even have fallen victim to in the past in relationships or even being single and dating or whatever. And even in parts of my marriage now being with my, my wife, my partner for 10 years, you think when you figure your shit out, you think when you get better in your relationship, oh, we've been going apart, we okay, we, we corrected, we did some stuff, now we're gonna be back together forever. But like, maybe but at the core

Speaker 2:You never No, no, no, I'm gonna

Speaker 1:Be me. She's gonna be her. Like, it's just, it's this constant need to like autocorrect, recorrect, recorrect. And it will only work if you have that commitment to what you're talking about here and now. Yeah. To like, I, I only want us to be together. But also the commitment to the thing that you said very in the beginning of like, I want to like basically be open to the fact I want to welcome being proven wrong.

Speaker 2:I,

Speaker 1:Which sounds wild. They both have to

Speaker 2:Coexist. Well, it sounds wild, but here, here let's, this is what I would do with teenagers. I would, I would say to them, I think I know the best way to do this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're gonna try it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then every single day a dozen times, I would be proved wrong. Mm-hmm. And I would see something about a counter. I would see something about a body position. I would see something, a skater would make a mistake. And I would say, show me that again. Mm. Show wait, show me every step. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, watch this. Okay. I wanna be clear. You did actually the opposite of what I asked you to do, but everybody do that now. Yeah. Okay. And so my, my skaters fucking loved me. Yeah. Because they knew I was just there for them to get better mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. I was there for them to get better.

Speaker 1:Say that again, but for our partners.

Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. When we are there, <laugh>. Right, right. I

Speaker 1:Know.

Speaker 2:That's so good. And, and honestly, chase Manny is on this trip with me. He's at the hotel right now and he doesn't usually travel with me. I usually fly solo. Okay. And I've always thought that's what I prefer. But for most of my life, it was because I had an assistant coach and a team manager and a hundred eager skaters waiting for me at the hotel. I'm a pack animal <laugh>, I like my team, I need my people around me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so there's, we're having this new level of integration where he actually shows up to help me in my hardest work. Hmm. Like, because actually showing up every day in the world and being vulnerable and being willing to like say, yeah, and I'm still figuring this out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is like, this is, this is the bravest thing I've mm-hmm. <affirmative> I've done because I would really love, I would really love for it to be easier.

Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would really love to say that I know how to do marriage and I know how to do parenting. The thing that I do know is allowing myself to see someone do something that I don't want them to do and go, oh, but that actually felt better. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or I see why that's of benefit. Okay. So, and in our family, I mean, my kids listen, they have manners. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, I'm Canadian. Like they say, pardon me, <laugh>, if a child walks, my athletes, they used to say, pardon me to teachers instead of what, or excuse me, because what? Or Huh. It's like in Canada, if a child says that, it's like they just told you to go fuck yourself. Mm-hmm. Like the, the level of manners is just like naturally very high. Like, just naturally. Like, it's so easy. You call customer service in Canada, whenever I call a doctor's office or something here, they get really weird. I'm like, hi, how are you today? And they're like, fine. Yeah. Question. What the f what do you want? What do you want? Oh my gosh. She's gonna try to sell me something. No, I actually wanna buy it from you. Oh, why were you so nice? Just because it's easy to be

Speaker 1:Nice. That was the biggest transition, difficult for me, difficulty for me coming from, uh, originally being southwest Virginia. Like coming from the south. And because

Speaker 2:You have some of that there. Absolutely. So, yeah. Right. Like, it's just, it doesn't take any more effort to just start off on the right foot.

Speaker 1:My grandmother would've smacked the shit outta me if I said, what <laugh>? So,

Speaker 2:You know. Right. Did you say excuse me? Or what did you

Speaker 1:Say? I'm not saying that's right, but you know, it was, you know, excuse me. Pardon me. Like, yeah. Okay. Can you say that again please? Did

Speaker 2:You know I used to have teachers laugh at my skaters because they said, pardon me. Mm. And still the skaters said it because they felt like they were integrity. You know what I mean? They, because, and I would say it to them, so like, you know, my kids have been saying pardon of me since they were like two years old. Right. Just so here's the thing. It's not like I free range fucking kids. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, they've been sorting, they've been putting away laundry un sorted since they were five years old. Okay. But there's not a hierarchy as far as ideas, because my nine year old is brilliant in ways that I'm not, one of my greatest joys in life is creating athletes who are better than me. Amazing. One, one of my greatest joys in life is creating children who are smarter and more aware than me.

Speaker 2:So like, we are all brilliant in our own ways, and I want them to know where they are. Brilliant. Because so often we focus on our weaknesses. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and our strengths. My therapist always says, it's like a tarantula on your face. And you're like, mommy, what's a tarantula? Like, it's on a spider on your face and you're like, I can't see it. And you'll say to me, but, but Ashley, it's so clear. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's in our blind spot. Mm. We have blind spots and it is so fucking loving to tell your partner when they're about to fucking trip in a hole. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> even when, and quite often my husband trips in a hole that then actually like, splashes me. You know what I mean? It's actually something that's like, especially, we talked about this, we talked about this before. I have a 15 year old mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:<affirmative>, my oldest is 15, and I'm getting to see how my husband, who I adore and who's imperfect, just like me, talks to me when I have a young man beside me who now outweighs me, is taller than me, who looks very similar and physique to my husband when I met him when he was 22. You know, like he's lifting. He's starting to like, really? And it's not always pretty. Mm. It's, it's, it's dismissive sometimes. It's really, and I realize, wow, we actually haven't spent a lot of time as a couple around your bros mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I gotta tell you, I don't like it. I don't like how you treat me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> when there's another man in the room. Okay. Something that I just want you to know, because some people may be going like, oh, I treat people the same all the time. And I don't know why I'm doing that funny voice. I, cause I, that's one of the rules in

Speaker 1:Our, it's always our go-to. Well, but,

Speaker 2:But, but it's a rule in my house that when you're telling a story about something your brother did, that you just tell the story. You don't mock and imitate someone's voice.

Speaker 1:Another great, great

Speaker 2:Point right there. Because my skaters would do and I'd be like, no, no, no. You can just tell me what happened without trying to imitate her voice. Because it's always condescending. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we don't need to be fucking assholes to each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. That's just a rule. We're not gonna be fucking assholes. So let me take that back. What was I even saying? Cause I was like, oh, I just caught myself. That's the thing. I like getting caught on my own bullshit. Whether it's me or whether it's my kids. Because you can't live in integrity unless you're willing to go, oh, I was out of it. Okay. You

Speaker 1:Were talking about your husband. You were realizing your husband wasn't really being around his bros and he was speaking to you in a way that you're kind of like, I'm not on board with this.

Speaker 2:Right. Okay. I want men who are hearing this. I want anyone who's hearing this who thinks I'm the same everywhere I go. To know that you're full of shit. If you don't realize that you're a different version of yourself in different company mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then you need to start looking in the mirror a little more. You need to realize we all shapeshift. We shapeshift. And it is fucking emotionally brilliant. It's emotional intelligence. It's survival to read the room. Yeah. Right. It's survival. It's reading the room, it's being charismatic. You know, who are the best shapeshifters in the world? Like the most brilliant salespeople, the most brilliant like visionaries like Spielberg. I'm sure he shape shifts. Right. It's not that like, oh, people who are strong just hold their ground. No, they're convincing. Mm. They're convincing, confident they can build consensus. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they can have other people see and visualize their wild dreams.

Speaker 2:So it's not that Spielberg, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, for example, cause we're here in Hollywood is, has the best ideas. No. He lets other people see it. They saw et they saw that bike in front of the moon and they were like, oh, okay. Yeah. I, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Open my, yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Right. Everybody wants to be inspired. Everybody wants to see something that they didn't before. They wanna broaden their perspective. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So when allowing the people you love to broaden your perspective for you is one of the most loving things you can

Speaker 1:Do. Love that. Love that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Who else are you gonna let broaden your, and that's the thing, my husband's more willing to let one of his trader stock bro friends, broaden his perspective. Especially when I we're, we're buying a new house and we are not doing it the way that my husband wanted to. Cuz like, every step along the way, I was like, stop. We're gonna actually make this decision in integrity and we're gonna walk side by side and I wanna consider this. And he had some resistance, right? And I was like, no, no, no. We're gonna, we're gonna like hash this out and then if we do it the way that you think, amazing. But we, we need to have, like, we're not moving forward until we're both a full Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like a full Yes. Okay. Because we've done, we've done the step forward. Yeah. Love that. With a little taste of resentment before. Yeah. Okay. But back to the, I don't treat people differently. Okay. There's, there's, there's this study that's been done has been replicated. Replicated. If a man is eating pizza by himself, he eats like, say, how many pieces of pizza would you normally

Speaker 1:Eat? I eat a large pizza every week.

Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. The whole pizza. Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1:No shame. <laugh>. Okay.

Speaker 2:So in this laboratory study, men who were eating pizza alone in a room would eat X number of pieces of pizza. If there was another man in the room

Speaker 1:Oh, I bet they would go more. Right.

Speaker 2:50% more pizza. Wow.

Speaker 1:Wow.

Speaker 2:50% more pizza.

Speaker 1:Wow. I, yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 2:Okay. And I said this to my husband and my kids and my 15 year old, cuz he's such a bro, God I love him. But he's like, oh god. Like, I mean, like, he's half Zach Morris, half Alex Keaton <laugh>. Do you know what I mean? Those references. Alex Keaton. Alex Keaton is like the Michael J. Fox character on, I think it was family ties or growing pains. Which one was it? Oh, oh, super conservative. Like, he was like in this progressive family, he was like, like born a Republican or something. He was like super, he definitely knows Zach

Speaker 1:Morris, but

Speaker 2:Okay. So, and, but he's like savvy, like Zach Morris kind of like, like a little bit zanie in his ideas. Mm-hmm. But he's always thinking, right? And I'm like, you know what? It also turns out for him to be like kind of lazy. And I say, okay, you are an efficiency expert. Mm-hmm. Like, you cut corners that are like, I didn't even know existed. Wow. And someday you are gonna be so valuable to the companies you consult for. Mm. And you're gonna say, Hey Google, hey Amazon, actually we can save, uh, this percentage by just going from A to Z. You actually don't need to do these steps. Mm. And I'll show you why. Now sometimes the kid miscalculates, like with his homework, so, and I'm a perfectionist, but I actually had to make his grades. None of my business. And a couple guidance counselors disagreed.

Speaker 2:<laugh>, they really thought it was my business. And I said, I really don't think it is because I have a really smart kid who knows the amount of effort he needs to put into something he cares about. And this is not something he cares about yet. And you know, I didn't let him fall completely, but I really gave him, I gave him a rope. Mm. Right. I gave him a rope and then he would pull it back and get it together in time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the kid's on the fucking honor, honor rule. Now the kid is on the honor rule and I never, I've never helped my kids with homework ever. Damn. And okay, listen, my kids don't have learning disabilities. Two of my kids did have reading support. Like, it's not like they weren't without challenges, but this, I trust you to do the work that's yours. It's just part of how I roll. Because I, I was a coach before I was a parent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. But when I said to my 15 year old Jack did, you know, I thought it was gonna be like the, oh damn, that's dumb. They eat 15% more pizza. He goes, of course they do. It's a competition. <laugh>.

Speaker 1:Right. So I could do 60. He was like,

Speaker 2:How much pizza do you think? Like Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, so it's, it's, I'm like, all right. And that's fine. Like he thinks that's a great stat about men. I think that's like a dudes, do you know this kind of stat? Yeah.

Speaker 1:We're idiots.

Speaker 2:Well, but, but he is an idiot and he kind of loves it. And there's part of it that's genius. There's part of it. Like, just like the upper crust of his idiocy is genius <laugh>. Okay. So I give him some freedom to be an idiot cuz he's got a kind, he's gotta find the edge of it himself.

Speaker 1:I think my wife probably does this with me as well. I'm sure there's a level in partnerships, or at least male female where it's just like, I'm just gonna let you be a dumb guy. I'm just gonna let you be an idiot human. I'll be here for though, and you'll go hit the bumpers and come back. And then like, okay, then we can kind of work through it.

Speaker 2:You know, there, there has to be space to fuck up. Oh, absolutely. And there has to be space to crawl back with your tail between your legs mm-hmm. <affirmative> and go shit. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how did you think I should do it? Because that was not right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then for, for your partner with Love to Go mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay, here's the roadmap. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. So, and, and so it's not that in every situation I'm like, Nope, we have to do it my way or we need to work it out. You know, there's give and take, there's flux all the time. But I know if my husband and I are feeling disconnected, it's because we have been out of alignment and we've been just like compromising. We've been like, oh, let it go. Let it go. No, we, we have two brains here and we have two hearts and we have two, you know, 40 years that we have 40 years of me, 40 years of him of experience that we could say, Hey, we're bro both bringing something to the situation.

Speaker 2:We're both bringing something to the table. Like, lay it out. What do you got? Right. And allowing, allowing our kids to change our family rules by making a good case. You know, because what it means to me, when my kids do chores joyfully it, it doesn't, it doesn't land the same with them. I feel very respected. I feel like they love me. I feel like they are showing that they appreciate the work I do by them doing their part. My nine year old feels like he really wants more time off. When he gets home from school, he wants to veg. He's like, I've been in school all day. And then I'll be like, okay, so weekdays hard for you to do chores, so would you rather it be Saturdays? And he'll say, oh God, no, I don't wanna do anything on Saturdays. I'll say, well then here, here there are seven days in the week, which one would you like to do? Wow. And he'll go, oh, okay. Then after dinner. And so this is what we do after dinner, before they go back into like FaceTiming their friends or whatever they're doing. And you know, I go and either check in on work or watch Wheel of Fortune with my husband because honestly recreation is hard for me. Yeah. So, but something that I found that like I'm, I can relax easily into,

Speaker 1:Is Pat Sja still the host of that? He

Speaker 2:Is. And his humor just always hits just right. He, he's just a little quirky. He's,

Speaker 1:I remember watching that with

Speaker 2:Little Grand Smart as a kid and I did too. And that's why I love it. Wow. Van is there still there too?

Speaker 1:Van White too.

Speaker 2:Van and Pat are still there, there in their 40th season.

Speaker 1:That's gotta be the longest running tv. It's

Speaker 2:Pretty magical. It's pretty magical. And it's all the same as before. It's still the same. Wow. And my kids,

Speaker 1:Does she still like turn letters? It's got, it's like

Speaker 2:Tap, she taps them. She doesn't turn them don't even

Speaker 1:Need her anymore. It could just be like, just touchscreen. She,

Speaker 2:She taps. Wow. But they do need her. Wow. Yeah. Because who's gonna laugh at Pat's jokes at the beginning and the end True. Before the contestants are there. I mean, it's like,

Speaker 1:It's another dynamic duo.

Speaker 2:Dynamic duo. And just like the things that we find comfort in, like fill yourself up with that every day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, we have Wheel of Fortune dvr and I watch it for one hour every day with my husband under my weighted blanket and we're cuddled on the couch. And that's something that we do that just like soothes me. I laugh at the jokes. I'm also really good at Wheel of Fortune. Wheel of Fortune. I actually, I, I have to a audition, don't I? Pat

Speaker 1:Hit her up, let's go.

Speaker 2:I really, I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But now my kids can play too. Like, they'll sit there and sometimes Luke, my 13 year old, he's so smart. Oh my God. We'll get it before I do. You know what I mean? It's like, oh my God, you got it. And it's like whoever gets it, you're just so happy. Like, you have someone that's smart in your house.

Speaker 1:I made you

Speaker 2:Well no,

Speaker 1:<laugh>, you're smart because of me. Well, no,

Speaker 2:But the thing is, I'd be, but you could do that. Yeah. You could do that. But I rather think like, wow, I've created a container in which my brilliant child can grow. Brilliant. You know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's like you change the size of a container and a plant's gonna like grow or, or not like. Right. It's not

Speaker 1:Goldfish saying, same thing, bowl

Speaker 2:Goldfish, that's even better than a plant. Right. I mean, that, that's the thing that I just, that's what I did as an athlete. That's what I did as a coach, was try to create a container with within which we can all become our best selves. Mm-hmm. So to do that in a marriage, in a family, like, oh my God, why would I wanna phone it in? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why would I wanna go through the motions? My oldest, he is gonna be driving in in August, my oldest is gonna be driving like, and I feel so confident. Like Chase, after I had kids, I like definitely had postpartum depression and anxiety that wasn't treated. And I, I actually went on Lexapro in 2020 January, right before pandemic. Like, actually very good timing because I've had anxiety and depression probably since I was 11 years old. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> didn't grow up in a family that had any tolerance for even physical sickness. So that was like, it was something that was like off the table to get mm-hmm. <affirmative> to get help with. Right. Like, it's a family joke when I went to the doctor for my anxiety, like I was having trouble, like getting a good breath. Mm. And the doctor in his likes, a lot of Canadian doctors are from South Africa, so in a South African accent, he's like, are you a happy girl? Are you a nervous child? And my mom, awful

Speaker 1:Question to be asked by your doctor

Speaker 2:Picked. Well, because he could tell like, mm, you're fucking anxious. And I'm sitting there with my mom and she like pulled me out and like laughed all the way home. And it was like the joke that she would repeat to people. And I remember being in college and I'm at, like, I'm at a Star Wars movie at midnight, you know, with a friend who like, loved Star Wars and like the, the prequels came out then. Right? I went, I graduated high school in 98 and I'm sitting there and I'm so excited to be there and I feel like I can't get a breath. Hmm. And I'm like, oh, I remember this. I'm like, oh, it's stress. Stress. Because the word anxiety, I mean, you know, eighties, nineties, and Gen X, like, you know, mental health, like, I mean, it's just never been well cared for. Right. And stigmatized. So it wasn't until my kids were past the point of infants, it wasn't until I changed careers and thought, okay, now I'm really doing what I wanna do that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I'm doing it on my terms that my anxiety and my depression peaked. And this is after even I wrote swing. Mm-hmm. It was like when things were quiet and I couldn't be busy enough, I was like, oh no, this feeling's just inside

Speaker 1:Me. Oh yeah. That's the moment where at the most chance for the pain and all the things that we've been filling our time with and running from and,

Speaker 2:And I'm good at running from things. Yeah. And I don't run, even run fast. I just skate laps around the ice for, you know, eight hours a day. So now I walk six miles around this lake by my house. Heavy backpack. You're aware, I'm aware of what I need to do. Things to change it. Yeah, absolutely. Of what I need to do. Like I, I need to sweat if I am, if I, I need to move my body, or if the weather's terrible and I just have 30 minutes, I'll go in my sauna mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that can give me the same sort of physical release. If I just like go in there and just sweat, then it's like, yeah, I get out and I feel like I've had a good cry or something. Right. Like the cortisol levels are lower mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it's just about calming my nervous system.

Speaker 2:And that's the thing. It's like, yes, I'm, I, I'm on Lexapro for anxiety or depression, but it's like I have a really sensitive nervous system. Mm-hmm. And you know what my kids do too, and I don't know if they're gonna need anything for it. But I went through all of these things to then realize, okay, whoa. All right. Yeah. The level at which I wanna live as far as your joy and adventure, it's really hard for me when I feel like this go, go, go all the time. Like, I need to just, I need to take the edge off. And it was a huge blow to my ego chase. I couldn't even go to my doctor. I couldn't even go to my doctor. I only could open up to Manny. And then he came home from work that, like, I've never asked him to come home from work.

Speaker 2:I was like, I need your help and I need this. Like, and I already had in my mind, like, it's just lexapril. Like I just need like 10 milligrams of le like I'd done my research and I was like, please, like can't, how do I get it Right? I even called my midwife and she's like, because that's the only like medical, medical professional that I felt like I could maybe tell how awful I felt on the inside. Right. Because I felt so much shame that I just didn't feel better. Manny found me like a, like a telehealth app where I can just chat with a doctor about my symptoms and get a prescription. Like that's, and so for me talking about this like publicly now, like I just feel, so this is like almost three, four, what do no three years now. Does it feel

Speaker 1:Surreal? Are you like, like who was that woman?

Speaker 2:Well, I know who she was. She was the me that I lived. It was, she was the me who lived under the fears Mm. That I policed myself with my whole life. Right. And it was like, boogieman, boogieman. That's not real. That's not real. It's like, once I actually, like, I thought no one would love me unless I was perfect. Mm. Period. End of story. And grew up in fucking figure skating we're perfect. Had a number, it was 6.0. Okay. And it was that

Speaker 1:You were literally being rated

Speaker 2:Always Yeah. By others or myself. Like, I mean, if you look through and I, I can't even look through them right now. Maybe, maybe I will though. Actually I'm gonna, I'm gonna go home and like look through my old like eating logs and workout logs from when I was in high school and college. Like if you think I'm intense now, like I'm intensely creative now mm-hmm. <affirmative> before it was very much focused on my body and what it could do. Like it was very narrow mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I felt myself when I first had children, like go narrow focused. And I was like, whoa, no, no, no. It's like taking something that's supposed to be like a fucking light show and like making it into a laser pointer. Ooh. Nobody wants interesting. That, that's not, that just does damage. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, on a bigger scale I can say things with clarity that people go, oh wait, I never thought of it that way. Right. But in general, I would love to just like be an ember <laugh>. I would like firecracker sometimes. Right. But I would rather just put, I've got

Speaker 1:The potential for all the things that I need to be.

Speaker 2:Well, like my husband's like, you are like half Oprah, half Dr. Evil <laugh>. Right.

Speaker 1:You're immediately just getting this visual mashup of that.

Speaker 2:Right. It's like, oh, everyone gets a car. Uhhuh every, you know what you're getting today.

Speaker 1:It's like, and in the back of the car is a freaking shark with a freaking laser beam. Freaking

Speaker 2:Laser beams. All I is for freaking laser beams. Right. Exactly. It's all I'm asking for is sharks with freaking laser beams. <laugh>. And it's like that. But that's what I was asking from asking for from myself my whole life. Like, I was looking in the mirror and I was like, all I asked for is for you to be fucking perfect. What the fuck? Like, it's the same thing I asked you yesterday. I'm asking you for the same thing. And really what I thought made me a good person was the stuff that made me in inhuman. Like anything I thought was like, Ooh, that's something I have to push away. Who

Speaker 1:Hasn't been there? Who can't relate

Speaker 2:To that yet? And it was like, I thought they were my immature parts when I was a kid. Mm-hmm. So I was like really eager to grow up very fast. And I was a, and I wanna just tell people this and I know like, you know, going into marriage and parenthood journey, I want you to know this, like the things we celebrate our kids for, we need to broaden that a bit because it's very easy for a child to imprint really quickly. X, Y, Z is what I do.

Speaker 1:This people's love,

Speaker 2:Listen

Speaker 1:Or recognition or even acknowledgement. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Speaker 2:Only these things make me okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So for me, I talked super, like I, this was always the start. Like, I walked when I was eight months old, full sentences by the time I was 18 months reading by the time I was four mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like, my intelligence was always something that was praised, but the way I used it, like I was put on display, like Ashley tell them such and such. So that's one of the things that I don't do with my kids there. I have a few videos of them, like singing cute Halloween songs when they were a kid, but putting my kid on display to impress other adults is not my fucking jam. Mm. It is not my fucking jam. My kid is not here to, to inflate my heart When people go, what an amazing kid, like to me.

Speaker 2:Mm. Tell him, tell him specifically what you think is amazing about him. And if you don't know, I'll, I'll give you a list. Yeah. I'll give you a list of things that are inherently amazing about him that have nothing to do with me. Nothing. Things that he's good at that I'm not. Hmm. That I'm not, I had nothing to do with that. So removing my ego from my kids trying to remove, you know, removing my ego from my own performance, especially professional performance is still really hard for me because I think if I just love people enough and care and if I'm, if I, if I'm, if I really synthesize this information, like I get hundreds of dms a day. Right. And a lot of people are hurting when they DM me or confused mm-hmm. <affirmative> or like, they're like, you know, last stop before divorce Bill here. Like, what do you got for me?

Speaker 1:Yeah. I need to hail Mary my relat hail

Speaker 2:Now Hail Mary. That's what it is. It's Hail Mary's is a lot of times when people come

Speaker 1:To me, desperation. Desperation. Making a choice in your relationship for, in your relationship with also for your own life, right. Outta desperation. Do we really think that's going to give us the result we want? Right. Do we really think that's gonna land us where we want to be? Or give us any kind of traction for this idea of the future self, the future relationship that we really want.

Speaker 2:Absolutely. And it's this constant push pull. Hmm. What do I want? What's, what's okay to ask for?

Speaker 1:I think that's more it. Yeah. Especially in relationships. Yes. It, it's less of, maybe I'm just speaking from experience, it's less of what do I want, but what, like what is, what am I allowed to ask for? Exactly What is safe to say out loud that I might be thinking or feeling that I really want to say out loud that I really want to explore.

Speaker 2:Okay. So here's the interesting thing that my parents had trouble with money. Like they were in their bank overdraft till I went to college. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like they couldn't get to zero. Okay. So for years I would like open, I would open a menu and then like, look and be like that. And then I would look, oh God, how is that gonna make my dad feel if I order that? Oh yeah. Right. Okay. So with my kids, and because we've both worked, you know, we've made smart financial decisions and also like, you know, the timing of my husband getting into the stock market and like things, I mean, we're really fucking privileged. Okay. We're really fucking privileged. But I noticed that coming up with my kids, like my nine year old, when he makes his Amazon wishlist, he's turning 10 in March. She's like, I didn't put anything on there that's very expensive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I'm like, you can ask for the fucking moon. You can ask for the fucking moon. And if I can't get it for you, I'm gonna show you the path that maybe you can get it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you can ask for whatever you want. Asking for something doesn't have to put someone else in a shitty situation for not being able to give it to you.

Speaker 1:Making this financial correlation to just something as simple as like a gift list, a wish list to what we were talking about in the beginning of your sexual life. Right. Like, how many of us are probably having light bulbs go off right now? Like I am that, I mean, that's root origin shit.

Speaker 2:It it is.

Speaker 1:It's like I come from that same background as well. Right.

Speaker 2:And it's, it's hard and it's something that I prided myself in. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and Manny, his parents, I'm probably gonna cry about this. My father-in-law. Okay. Cuz I, I think about, I think about how I grew up, right? I had two jobs by the time I was 11. Hmm. Like, you know, I bought my own skates when I was 14. Like saved up the 600 fucking dollars to buy them. Wow. Wow. You know, like I, I bought my own bed when I was a teenager cause I was like, I I want like a day bed. And they're like, well, you're gonna have Right. Like the financial self-sufficiency and like, even I've made my own doctor's appointments since I was 14. Like, my parents never looked at my college application. And here's the thing that I was like, I was proud of all of that and my parents were proud of it. And I like, okay, but the way that, who, who wouldn't be by the way. Well, thank you. But I, I,

Speaker 1:I worked for this.

Speaker 2:I learned it. I started off thinking that I wanted to parent my kids to be that independent. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:And sometimes kids should just be kids. You know, I didn't have that for myself, but I got to, I got to really, and listen chicken or the egg, like I was a very, I came out of the womb with like fucking something to proof I thought. Right. So like, was it that my parents pushed me or that I, they held one carrot in front of me and then I fucking dangled the rest. And I, they were like, she just does her thing. I don't know. Who knows? It doesn't even matter. It just, what I want to make clear to my kids is I love you the way that you are. And like any chips that are on my shoulder, any blind spots, like I'm addicted to finding them because every time I do and I go, wow, I was really fucking wrong about that freedom.

Speaker 2:It is like walls dropped down and like a, it's like a portal opens and I see opportunities I never saw because the standards I hold myself to are, are higher than what I would hold anybody else to. But something that I think a lot of us who have grown up with, um, you know, financial hardship and like without the silver spoon mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. Which is most of us really, and my husband was like that too. We really, we really held on to our blue collar upbringing in a way that I think has become a blind spot for our kids. Like we think this struggle is what made us great people. And when our kids don't have a financial struggle, then we think, oh, well then we should make this hard for them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know what, being human is hard enough. You don't need to like set up an obstacle horse for your kids. Like Earth will do that for them.

Speaker 1:Yeah. Just exist and, and, and be, be present long enough and Right. It'll fucking come. It

Speaker 2:It. And listen, life is supposed to get better and better and better and easier for each generation. And like, we have more physical comforts, but we actually have more mental health issues. Maybe. Well I don't, do we? Or do we not? I'm not really sure, but this is the

Speaker 1:Story for more aware of them now. Um, this is, oh actually, hey one second. Hey Joel, did we lose cameras?

Speaker 2:Okay. And I don't know if the story about my father-in-law even works in, cuz it kind of goes off, but we don't even have to bring that in. But it's a,

Speaker 1:Um, do you wanna, I'm loving where we are, but I actually Wow. This is, uh,

Speaker 2:Where are we with time?

Speaker 1:Do we need to wrap up in a few minutes? Um, yeah.

Speaker 2:Okay. So we don't need to go into that if we can. We don't. I'm trying, because I already got to, I already circled it back to the blue collar. Okay. Hold it on thing. So we already circled back. I don't need to tell

Speaker 1:Us where you are now actually is kind of like the realization that life does get better, um, timing-wise actually works perfectly for like the last question I ask everybody. Okay. Amazing. Um, so we can kind of maybe just like get to there. Um, yeah,

Speaker 2:Because I mean Chase, I'm like, we should do a podcast. I'm like, uh, how can we talk for 17 <laugh>? Right.

Speaker 1:I mean, I haven't even gotten to any of my fucking questions that I can. Well, but, but, but more or less. But like, I

Speaker 2:Know, but I just love the way you ask questions. Cause I, things are coming, coming out of my mouth that have never come outta my mouth

Speaker 1:Before. Wow. Amazing. Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm like

Speaker 1:That. Well, that's my intention with, uh, with the show. So, I mean, I actually, I, we, we did hit on a few of like the points. I didn't get the actual questions, which doesn't really matter to me. Um, like I'm more than like content with everything we've got so far. But I, I do think, uh, probably just bring it into kind of the final. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but you know, sidebar, I mean kind of like literally everything you're describing now about, um, the financial aspect and what you want to ask for and like how it's gonna be received and all of that. Yeah. Um, definitely has a huge play in Yeah. For me, relationships, sexual life. I mean, I literally, the deciding factor for me to join the military wasn't because like my dad did it. My uncle did it. Like literally every generation did for Yeah.

Speaker 1:Like back to the Civil War, there's been a holy shit tuning holy shit in the military. Holy. Yeah. What did it for me was when my father was like, chase, if you wanna go to college, or if you want, if you wanna join the military, great. We'll figure it out. If you wanna go to college, I'll figure it out. There was no college fund. There was nothing. I immediately ended. There was no pressure. I, I love and will always say, my father, God bless his soul, like there was no pressure for any choice. All he ever wanted for me was to act out of integrity. Yeah. And to love the life that I'm building. Be considerate of others, but like, don't put myself last. But I'm the big brother, so I usually always do. Um, yeah. And we just didn't have money. There was none of that.

Speaker 1:And like the love that he showed me by saying that to sacrifice and to put me ahead of him again. Yeah. I think I was just finally old enough. I was like 16, 17. I listened to 17 just to kind of go, oh, if I go the route that everybody else is, if I go to school, that's gonna be detrimental to my family and my father. Ah. And so I was like, I can sacrifice that. I can go this route because that's free. So like, my life is worth <laugh> joining the army in war, you know.

Speaker 2:Well, and what you just said was your dad created a situation Mm. Where you could freely choose mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you chose to help him. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:<affirmative>. We are naturally reciprocal beings. Cooperation, harmony. We are. Mm-hmm. We just are like, you know, there are times when it can go sideways and we can really feel vengeful. Well, no, there are times in every day that I probably feel vengeful or angry or whatever, and I go, oh, look at that. You know who I'm really pissed at when I'm pissed at the way my husband is talking to me in front of my kid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm pissed at me. I'm pissed at me. That like

Speaker 1:I, for allowing that for not saying something to, well for

Speaker 2:Letting other things go. That like we got Uhhuh to this point. Uhhuh, <affirmative>. Do you know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 1:There's so much responsibility in what you just said. There's so much ownership, uh,

Speaker 2:Complete a hundred percent responsibility.

Speaker 1:It's been another through line. I hear in everything you talk about.

Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Radical responsibility. Like,

Speaker 1:Are we all good? Good. Okay. Cool. Um, yeah, I mean that, I I I think that again, like one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from our conversation is it takes a level of commitment to your life. And if you're in a partnership relationship, if you're a parent, if you're in any situation where it's you and someone else, yeah. The level of commitment you make will either make or break you. And then beyond that, outside of the commitment, it is acting out of personal integrity and ownership. Even when it's not convenient. And even when probably in past experiences or we make the assumption that like, this is gonna turn into some shit. This is gonna be a fight. What if we break up? What if my kid hates me? What if, what if, what if? But by commitment, integrity and shit. What was the third thing I said?

Speaker 1:<laugh>, um, ownership of, of everything leading up to that ownership. Like that, like bundled that up is perfect segue into what I say living a life ever forward, which I only say because of my father ever forward was my father's mantra before he passed away, like my entire life. Wow. Was the model. He said what he literally said how he lived his life. He passed away 18 years ago, January actually. Wow. Uh, up to his dying breath was just committing, acting out of integrity. Yeah. And then owning everything along the way. And so for that, I ask you, when you hear those words ever Ford, what does that mean to you? Through your lens? Through, through swing, through all these things.

Speaker 2:Like Yeah. Through all of it. Ever forward to me means the best days are ahead.

Speaker 2:That's what it means. That's what it means. It means we're not our mistakes, we're not our worst parts. Cause we all have really bad parts of ourselves. And I mean that's just part of being human. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. And the bad parts get to, they don't need to be extricated. They don't need to be exor exercised from your body. They get to live alongside us and knowing that they're just always gonna be like passengers. Dexter. Like your dark passenger. Dark passenger. Yeah. We all have a fucking dark passenger. Right? Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't include blood splatter. But we all the, our darkest parts get to live alongside us. And that's the real taboo and swing. I said, Hey, what if you, what if I, because in my story I looked at the darkest parts of myself and I said, maybe they're beautiful. Maybe they're part of me. And that's what I think forever forward is it, it doesn't matter what happened, doesn't matter what's inside. It's like n no, no. There's, there's so much goodness. If you have enough awareness to go mm-hmm. <affirmative> ow. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that hurts. You have enough awareness to go. I would prefer to for, I would prefer for it to feel better. And that's where with this incredible human brain, we have the creativity to go. So what choice do I wanna make tomorrow or in this next second to do it differently?

Speaker 1:It's almost like your definition came from like reading my journals like it so much. Like literally even the terminology of the dark passenger Oh wow. Attorney. Like, it's like,

Speaker 2:It's almost like we're both human chase.

Speaker 1:Yeah.

Speaker 2:Truly. It's like, it's so weird. It's almost like we're both, it's almost like we're all made of the same stuff. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But so many of us are too afraid to be honest with ourselves cuz we think we're only made of the bad shit. Mm. But you're not, you're like not even fucking close. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's why I can say to my kids, these are the worst parts of me. These are the weaknesses I see in you, but you know what, it's this much and this, and that's gonna expand and expand. Like, you could fill the whole fucking universe with your goodness, but I want you to know like where, where your, where your weak spots are so that you, you don't mistake that for the biggest part of you.

Speaker 1:Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Well, Ashley, I have to wrap us up, unfortunately. Um, I literally, I feel like this was five minutes. Um, this has been so enjoyable for me and different for me and different from my audience, but yet so familiar.

Speaker 2:Yeah.

Speaker 1:There's not really a lot of difference there, I think and a lot of things, um, to bring awareness into our life that we wanna change. You know, it's the differences, but it's really when we get down to the bare bones, we realize how similar we are and the differences just seem greater because we probably aren't acting out of integrity. We probably aren't taking ownership. We probably aren't being just honest enough with ourself first to really see where we have so many similarities.

Speaker 2:And I would add onto that in synchronized skating, the only way I could get 16 teenage girls to look exactly the same was for them to understand and for me to understand how fundamentally different they were and why that was an asset. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So our differences, our differences, our differences is what ac our differences are, what make us move forward in life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's the friction, it's the rub, it's the bumping up against the thing that's not your preference. Then you go, well what do I want? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, because we gotta ask ourselves like if not that, then what? Mm. Then what what's the yes? Yeah. What's the yes. If that's the no, because when you hit a no quite often you're like, it's a no. It's a real no. We all wanna get to the yes. We all wanna get to that. And there

Speaker 1:Is a yes

Speaker 2:Always. Yeah. If, if you don't find it, then you're not being creative enough or you, you need to just pause and not move forward. And that's, that's a thing in marriage and family. Like wait till it's a full yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for both of you. Stay in it until it's a yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Speaker 1:All right, you're coming back again soon. Can't wait. You gotta do this again. Um, I'll have everything down in the show notes for everybody where they can connect with you. The book. But like right now, where's the spot you're hanging out the most? Online. Where can they go?

Speaker 2:Instagram. Okay. Instagram's my favorite place. Instagram stories cuz mm-hmm. I want people to understand, you know, your audience. Mm-hmm. Anybody who's, uh, has a message they wanna get out into the world. Instagram Stories is the only place on earth where we can post something publicly and no one in the world has any idea how many other people see it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. They can't see the comments, they can't see the reactions. They get to consume content in, in stories and go, how do I feel about that?

Speaker 1:It's a good reminder.

Speaker 2:It is. It's great reminder. It's, there's a level of intimacy and integrity that, that I think super special that like, it, it really connects people. It really connects people. So yeah. Come say hi, come send me a dm. Tell, you know, tell me you heard me on ever floor. It's

Speaker 1:Ok, you're a straight guy, you know, asking

Speaker 2:These question. You're gonna be, you're gonna be in good company. You're gonna be in good company because that's where all the street dudes are hanging out. You know, they listen to Joe Rogan and then they're in Ashley Renard stories on Instagram <laugh>, honestly. Oh, they probably li hopefully they listen to ever forward.

Speaker 1:You're they are now. Hopefully

Speaker 2:They listen to ever forward even more, but you're more

Speaker 1:Than welcome to my dms too. I mean, I, the, the level to which I interact with people every day, um, also just amazes me. And again, that's a great reminder of just really probably something I, I, I know, but I don't like top of mind know and like how intimate and how safe and how just like really a container it is because the level to which that I share things there, um, is for me, but it's for everybody. But it's for me and just one other person and me and that one other person is how we connect and how we talk and like how I grow and how they grow and how all of this grows. Um, it's mutually necessary.

Speaker 2:Yeah. You can't love a crowd. You can only love a person.

Speaker 1:Yeah. Actually, thank you so much.

Speaker 3:For more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to ever forward radio.com.