"If you take care of yourself, if you have the right mental, physical, emotional mindset as well, you can actually continue to progress and only get better as you get older."

Saad Alam

Saad Alam is the CEO of Hone, a health and wellness company dedicated to helping men take charge of their lives and be the best they can be, especially as they get older. Hone believes that your body can be optimized to reach your peak performance for whatever it is that matters in your life. Whether it’s running an Iron Man at 45 or running in the backyard with your kids after a day in the office.

In this discussion, Chase and Saad talk about new and unique approaches to men’s health, the misconceptions around Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT), and the real impact of chemicals and microplastics on hormone levels and fertility. Saad gives insight into what it feels like to have low testosterone levels and a few habits and actions you can take to maintain your hormone levels as you age. 

Follow Saad Alam @msaadalam

Follow Chase on Instagram @chase_chewning

Follow him on Twitter @chasechewning

Key Highlights

  • How are we, as men, supposed to show up in the world? What harmful narratives about manhood have we held on to that are no longer serving us? Saad sheds light on the biggest needs for men’s health right now in 2022 compared to when we were growing up and becoming men. 

  • Chase shares his experience before and after Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) as a man in his mid-30s. Saad describes what it was like to be diagnosed with hypogonadism (low testosterone levels) and why it’s beneficial to split up your testosterone doses.

  • How do you feel better and maintain your masculinity as you get older? Is testosterone the primary hormone men should be paying attention to? Tune in to find out!

  • Saad answers: What does it feel like to have low testosterone levels? What happens to men’s bodies as they age? He then highlights the things men can do to maintain their hormone levels and slow the aging process.

  • Don’t wait until you hit rock bottom to take action. If you’re not feeling yourself, reach out to your doctor and consider using Hone to test your hormone levels or learn more about optimizing men’s health!

Powerful Quotes by Saad Alam

The way people used to think was that as you get older, you kind of start nailing it in, and what the reality is is that’s completely bullshit. If you take care of yourself, if you have the right mental, physical, emotional mindset as well, you can actually continue to progress and only get better as you get older.

For people that have really low testosterone, it feels like you’re kind of depressed, it feels like you’re a little heartbroken, and it feels like you are actually a little bit hungover… You don’t have energy, you can’t focus, you don’t feel like yourself, you’re always walking in a little bit of a haze.

The medication is not what changes you. The medication gives you a little bit of momentum in your life so you have a little bit more energy and when you have a little bit of momentum and some more energy in your life, you then have to take it and do something useful with it… By doing those things, you then start to build your confidence back up.

The way you are feeling is very often in direction relationship to what is happening in your body and the chemistry.

Recommended Resources:


Ever Forward Radio is brought to you by Legion Athletics

The Build Muscle Stack is three supplements that increase muscle and strength gain, improve workout performance, and boost post-workout recovery.

Every ingredient is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research and is included at clinically effective levels.

CLICK HERE to save 20% with code EVERFORWARD

EFR 632: Harmful Narratives Around Manhood, Regulating Hormones, and Slowing the Aging Process with Saad Alam

Saad Alam is the CEO of Hone, a health and wellness company dedicated to helping men take charge of their lives and be the best they can be, especially as they get older. Hone believes that your body can be optimized to reach your peak performance for whatever it is that matters in your life. Whether it’s running an Iron Man at 45 or running in the backyard with your kids after a day in the office.

In this discussion, Chase and Saad talk about new and unique approaches to men’s health, the misconceptions around Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT), and the real impact of chemicals and microplastics on hormone levels and fertility. Saad gives insight into what it feels like to have low testosterone levels and a few habits and actions you can take to maintain your hormone levels as you age. 

Follow Saad Alam @msaadalam

Follow Chase on Instagram @chase_chewning

Follow him on Twitter @chasechewning

Key Highlights

  • How are we, as men, supposed to show up in the world? What harmful narratives about manhood have we held on to that are no longer serving us? Saad sheds light on the biggest needs for men’s health right now in 2022 compared to when we were growing up and becoming men. 

  • Chase shares his experience before and after Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) as a man in his mid-30s. Saad describes what it was like to be diagnosed with hypogonadism (low testosterone levels) and why it’s beneficial to split up your testosterone doses.

  • How do you feel better and maintain your masculinity as you get older? Is testosterone the primary hormone men should be paying attention to? Tune in to find out!

  • Saad answers: What does it feel like to have low testosterone levels? What happens to men’s bodies as they age? He then highlights the things men can do to maintain their hormone levels and slow the aging process.

  • Don’t wait until you hit rock bottom to take action. If you’re not feeling yourself, reach out to your doctor and consider using Hone to test your hormone levels or learn more about optimizing men’s health!

Powerful Quotes by Saad Alam

The way people used to think was that as you get older, you kind of start nailing it in, and what the reality is is that’s completely bullshit. If you take care of yourself, if you have the right mental, physical, emotional mindset as well, you can actually continue to progress and only get better as you get older.

For people that have really low testosterone, it feels like you’re kind of depressed, it feels like you’re a little heartbroken, and it feels like you are actually a little bit hungover… You don’t have energy, you can’t focus, you don’t feel like yourself, you’re always walking in a little bit of a haze.

The medication is not what changes you. The medication gives you a little bit of momentum in your life so you have a little bit more energy and when you have a little bit of momentum and some more energy in your life, you then have to take it and do something useful with it… By doing those things, you then start to build your confidence back up.

The way you are feeling is very often in direction relationship to what is happening in your body and the chemistry.

Recommended Resources:


Ever Forward Radio is brought to you by Legion Athletics

The Build Muscle Stack is three supplements that increase muscle and strength gain, improve workout performance, and boost post-workout recovery.

Every ingredient is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research and is included at clinically effective levels.

CLICK HERE to save 20% with code EVERFORWARD

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

The following is an operation podcast production.

Speaker 2 (00:04):

Hey guys, my name is Saad Alam. I am the CEO and co-founder of hone and today on ever forward radio, I'm stoked, but we're gonna be getting into understanding how to listen to yourself. We're gonna get into hormones and kind of the, the real world, and more importantly, uh, how you can make sure that you don't stay compliant and you can chase after kind of the, the life that you really want.

Speaker 1 (00:25):

Welcome back everyone. This is your number one source for inspiring content, from people who are putting a purpose to their passion and truly living a life ever forward conversations and messages that will take your fitness, nutrition, and mindset to the next level. I am your host, chase chewning. This is ever for radio.

Speaker 1 (01:00):

Alright, my friends, we are back with another powerhouse episode and you know what I gotta say. I wanna preface this episode first and foremost, by saying that this was recorded back in June, which was actually national men's health awareness month, which is really the focus of our conversation here today with Saad Alam. So guys listen up, but you know what everybody else tune in to maybe share some great resources and information for that special guy in your life. So is the CEO of hone. This is an incredible health and wellness company dedicated to helping men take charge of their lives and be the best that they can be, especially as they age. So all my guys out there, you know, approaching 30, 30, and above this, one's for you because that's me sod believes that your body can be optimized to reach your peak performance for whatever it is that matters most in your life.

Speaker 1 (01:52):

So whether you're running an Ironman at 45, or just chasing your little ones around in the backyard, or just plowing through a day in the office, look, your Everest is your Everest. In our conversation today, we talk about new and unique approaches to men's health, the misconceptions around testosterone replacement therapy and the real impact of chemicals and microplastics on hormone levels and fertility. So gives us insight into what it feels like to have low testosterone levels. You really going on tune in because at a pretty young age, he had the testosterone levels of an 80 year old. Yeah, you heard me. And so he's gonna explain exactly what that looked like, what that felt like. And he's gonna give you actions. You can take to maintain your hormone levels as you age. One of the most important things I have found for maintaining my testosterone levels and maintaining my overall physical state and hell sanity.

Speaker 1 (02:47):

And that's keeping a promise to myself of regular physical activity, regular exercise for me, that's strength training. And as I age consistency, doesn't always cut it. Now you're gonna hear me talk about in this episode, how for the past five, six months or so, I've been on TRT. I've been really enjoying the results and I'm fine tuning that dosage and everything still with my provider. And I'm really happy with it. But when it comes to getting ready for the gym, when it comes to maximizing results through recovery and protein, I'm reaching for Legion. Legion. Athletics has been my go to sports performance supplement company now for two years. Wow. Yeah, two years. And here's why, because they only include the things that work all the ingredients. There's no proprietary blends. Every ingredient is only in there at clinically effective, proven dosages. There's no artificial flavors, junk, added sugars, none of that.

Speaker 1 (03:42):

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Speaker 1 (04:35):

So you have nothing to lose. That's Legion, athletics.com, check out code ever forward to save 20% off of your entire first purchase. And then every time you come back, because I know you're gonna want to, you're gonna want to keep this stack in your shelves. You're gonna put down code ever forward as well. You're gonna get double the loyalty points, which is gonna save you so much more money down the road, open up so many opportunities for extra savings and deals. Okay. Thank you so much for tuning in here today. Let's jump into the episode with Saddam.

Speaker 2 (05:06):

I mean, it's, it's an, it's a really interesting point to bring up what's different between what I, what I thought growing up versus what the world really looks

Speaker 1 (05:13):

Like. Yeah, absolutely. We're um, I think, especially when it comes to our health, physical, mental, emotional, depending on how you were raised, where you were raised, um, culture, religion, societal norms, we kind of have an idea of norms to begin with, but then afterwards it's what is unique? What is a norm for a guy? You know, how are we supposed to present to the world? How are we supposed to show up to the world? What is looking, being, thinking, well, supposed to look like, you know, what were we taught? What was the norm back then? And you know, what are we kind of finding needs to be our norm now?

Speaker 2 (05:53):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, I mean, I grew up in like a very paternalistic Pakistani household where it was like, whatever my father says goes, it's like, whatever God says, no, whatever dad says <laugh> and, uh, unfortunately, right. You know, the reality is that him not taking his health seriously is turned into kidney disease, multiple strokes, cetera, et cetera, cetera. And so as unfortunate as it's been, it's kind of been one of those things. That's taught me. It's not the way I wanna live my life. Right. Um, so I can definitely speak to it. Uh, I can, other things that you think are important?

Speaker 1 (06:29):

Um, well, I mean, I can personally attest to the test. Uh, I, I actually just got on TRT maybe four months ago, um, turned 36, like seven, eight months ago now. And was just kinda, I was becoming that guy that I kept hearing about once you turn, you know, mid, late thirties of the same shit isn't working in the gym anymore, certain things take just a little bit more motivation that, you know, didn't take any before, um, muscle mass muscle building, just general energy, really just kind of the me that I have known for so long and the me that I have worked for, to be honest with my physical self, emotional self, some things just began to kind of not hit the mark anymore. Even though air quote here, I was doing all the right things. I was still training consecutively. I was eating well, recovering, sleeping, uh, being very candid and open a lot more open in like my emotional state, my relationship health. And so I was just like, what's, what's the deal, man. <laugh> and it turns out, you know, TT for me was a great little level up.

Speaker 2 (07:33):

How do you mind me? How much are you on right now?

Speaker 1 (07:35):

You know, I always, I get asked this and I really D I really need to memorize the number. I know I'm taking, uh, I'm now doing two, basically microdosing, or kinda like splitting it up. I'm doing two doses a week at a 0.3 milliliters. Um, but the, the dosage of the actual TRT I'm having a brain cramp on right now,

Speaker 2 (07:54):

It's probably like 200 milligrams milliliters. So my guess is you're probably on

Speaker 1 (07:58):

That sounds about right.

Speaker 2 (07:59):

A hundred and hundred 20 milligrams per week, which is like a nice, nice dose.

Speaker 1 (08:04):

Yeah. Cause I think we actually, we brought it down from, uh, it was either one 40 or one 60 and I was having incredible results, both physically. Um, but my T levels actually shot up kind of like too high. And so we brought it down and split up the dosage.

Speaker 2 (08:19):

Yeah. The splitting up of the dosage. It's shocking that most physicians don't do that right from the jump because it helps so many things.

Speaker 1 (08:26):

Why, why is that? You know, why is that just a great little, uh, optimizer?

Speaker 2 (08:31):

The biggest problem, right? Is when you, when you genuinely inject that your testosterone, your, the concentration testosterone, your blood goes up very rapidly. And so if it goes up very rapidly and you're not gonna have another shot for seven days as it starts to go down probably around the fifth day, cuz your body's metabolizing it pretty fast, your blood, your concentration levels are almost where you actually shop previously. Mm. And so like on the fifth day you start to get kind of cranky. They actually say you're just chasing the dragon. And so then you're waiting for the next one. And so what generally ends up happening is get your next one, go back up and you're on this roller coaster ride versus when you do smaller shots, the peaks and valleys are much smaller. Also the side effect profile way lower. Whenever you do multiple shots over the course of the week, rather than one.

Speaker 1 (09:15):

Yeah, for me, I noticed that, um, I kind of not, not always, but maybe around like it was week five or six, uh, I would kind of just get into a random mood. Uh, I would just really moody and or slash like for me it was kind of like down, I, I was just like, I'm like kind of depressed. I, I feel demotivated again. I was like, what the hell? I thought this was the point of taking TRT was to get me out of this. And it would just kind of come on out of out nowhere, but since kind of splitting it up, haven't had any issues like that.

Speaker 2 (09:47):

That's great. Yeah. That's uh, it's a pretty common thing we see. And honestly, it's like this journey you go on, people think it's just like, you take a shot and everything's good to go. And you're like, no, no, no. That's why you gotta test pretty regularly to see where your levels are, but more importantly how you're feeling.

Speaker 1 (10:00):

Hmm. So, I mean, so is testosterone the main driving force here, the main hormone that we should be need to be looking at is guys as we age or we experiencing these, these things that I've been talking about or is it just hormones in general that maybe have not been getting the attention they deserve for guys? Cuz I know they certainly get a lot of eyes on, you know, in the female demographic. Um, you know, they have to run through them more frequently <laugh> but you know, guys, there's a lot going on in our hormones that if we don't address or even just understand, get our baseline, we're kind of missing connecting some dots. Right.

Speaker 2 (10:34):

I mean, there are a lot of 'em like IGF thyroid hormones, vitamin D levels, magnesium levels. I mean, things that you think were very obvious that are incredibly simple, which if you do actually, by the way, this being recorded for the podcast.

Speaker 1 (10:51):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Audio video. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:54):

Oh, I realize that I, that we're, we're kind of kick kick. We're shooting this shit right now.

Speaker 1 (10:58):

Oh this is, we'll get into it. Well we are, but exactly this is, uh, the best part because it's just, you know, my favorite part of the conversation, but I mean, I'll go back and kind of like cut a little bit of the, the morning part or the first part out. But, but yeah, man, I've been enjoying this so far, but if, if you wanna just do a hard start right now, that's fine too. <laugh>

Speaker 2 (11:15):

Let's let's do that. Let's do the hard start. Okay, cool. And that way I'll make sure I'm actually being thorough with my answers. Cause honestly I was like, all right, lemme give him a quick version of this. Cause you

Speaker 1 (11:23):

Might wanna jump. Don't wanna say don't wanna waste it. Gotcha. Okay, cool. Uh, awesome. We'll do a quick little countdown and then we'll be legit, man. All right. All right. So three, two. All right. So here we are while we're talking national men's health awareness month. So thank you so much for joining me here and what a great guest, what a great time to be talking about this stuff, because this is very top of mind for me and my audience right now. And this is what you live, eat, and breathe in your mission to help other men. Am I wrong

Speaker 2 (11:51):

Every single day, man, that's that's all we do. We try to, we try to actually really our mission is to, to help men understand that they can live. They can live life and they can get older without thinking about themselves as actually aging, right? To actually feel like they're having more confidence as they get a little bit older. And the reality is I think the way people used to think was that as you get older, you kind of start mailing it in when the reality is that's completely bullshit. If you take care of yourself, if you have the right mental, emotional, physical mindset as well too, you can actually continue to progress and only get better. As you get older.

Speaker 1 (12:24):

Walk us through what you might think has been this old modality, this old paradigm, this old belief system of being a guy of what it's like to age, what it's like, the things we just need to accept and just get over. And, and really the things that we're really forgetting or forced to forget in terms of our youth and our strength and our resilience and our energy and our libido and all this stuff, this old narrative compared to the new.

Speaker 2 (12:51):

So I think there's kind of like two forces that are kind of fighting with each other, right? The first force is you are a man, you are a macho, you run the house. You're not allowed to have emotions. You don't ask for directions and you are strong all the time and you never, never, never admit that you're wrong. Right? I grew up in a very paternalistic Pakistani household where whatever my dad said goes, no matter if it was wrong, whatever he said goes. And I think the reality is that what happens is men start to get older 35, 40, 45, 50. Even in that kind of older paradigm, they say to themselves, you know what, I'm feeling really tired. I'm starting to slow down a lot, but you know what, that's not what men do. Men just keep on pushing on. And so all of a sudden you fast forward 20 years from the time they first started having symptoms.

Speaker 2 (13:43):

They're 35 years old and they're saying to themselves, wow, I feel like a shell of myself. And the worst part about it is this seed or kernel of doubts stuck into their head when they're 35. And they started to first feel those symptoms and it slowly started to chip away with them. Yeah. I was the same age, 35 myself too, when I first went through the problem. And I think that the way and, and right. And so the reality is that those two fights forces were kind of like diametrically, opposing each other. I feel like I'm, I'm getting a little bit weak, but I don't say anything cause that's not what men do. And I think that what we're beginning to see is a couple things, right? There's this huge push with it's okay to admit that you have a mental health problem. Shit, it's even strong to admit that you may have one.

Speaker 2 (14:24):

And so if you can be very active in talking about how you feel at any given moment in time, and if you can kind of pair that with all the medical advances and the fact that men are now getting far more comfortable talking about, Hey, look, I just don't feel like myself. There are all kinds of solutions out there. And frankly, it's like literally a Google search away to figure out how you can actually improve yourself, whether it's mentally, emotionally, or physically. And so then you have to really say to yourself, all right, the way I think men are starting to shift is it's okay to talk about the way I feel. And frankly, because I see so many other guys like really getting out there, getting older and just, I mean, the reality is like getting better as they get older, you see to yourself, I want that too. And I think that we are completely entitled and we are empowered to go chase after those things. Now, if we're being realistic, right, there's still a lot of, kind of like the old paradigm stuck in this country. But the reality is that it is shifting, right. And I think you're a Testament to it. I probably went through it or I'm going through it. I think a ton of guys that listen to this and probably I need to argue like their spouses or their partners. They're also going through it as well, too,

Speaker 1 (15:34):

You know, going through it. That's, um, that's a, that's a good thing sometimes. You know, I, I think going through it, whatever it is for you, whether that's, I'm not seeing or feeling the same things in the gym or my emotional state, my relationship, whatever going through it can be and should be a teacher if we're just present enough with it. But in that process, I think it's kind of unique if we're feeling these things that, um, we typically feel the physical first we're feeling mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, I'm losing strength, I'm losing endurance, I'm losing my manhood. I'm losing muscle. I'm losing all these things, but for me, and I'm curious if you've gone through the same thing it was then that kind of unique sensation or realization rather that I'm feeling about my physical self, but I'm just getting better at feeling. Uh, and so by kind of just noticing the physical stuff first, which I think happens to a lot of us, it's like what we notice first, what we're actually doing in the process is getting better at feeling, just feeling, being present with our bodies and listening to what it is telling us, which in turn being better at feeling really helps every other way that we are a man.

Speaker 1 (16:46):

Correct.

Speaker 2 (16:48):

You know what it's I wish I had it. I actually showed it to my team the other day. I've got a, I'm a little bit obsessive. I have a hundred page manual that I created on myself. Right. And it

Speaker 1 (17:02):

Is on yourself,

Speaker 2 (17:04):

On myself, which is all the things I do well. It's like,

Speaker 1 (17:07):

Which I really don't care standard operating procedure. Is that what the amazing, I love to hear it. Oh

Speaker 2 (17:12):

Man. I literally, I'm literally it's in the other room. I go grab

Speaker 1 (17:14):

It. That's amazing. But it

Speaker 2 (17:15):

Is all the things I do well, which I really, I think, you know, the things you do well, it's all the things I do poorly. Right. And that's actually the most important thing. What are the things I don't do? Good. And more importantly, do I care about the fact I don't do them well, and what's really interesting is when you go through that exercise, you can objectively look at the things that you don't do well. And if you can understand that they're not, they don't define you. They're just a series of behaviors. You become unemotional about them. And then it is a list of, I, I have 40 vials of blood drawn every three months. I have all my exercise, all my exercises. I have all the different kind of like mindsets that I, I would say that I strive to incorporate into my life.

Speaker 2 (18:00):

And I think that that was actually a growth of me starting to meditate probably around eight or nine years ago. Really. Right. And I think, and so eight years ago I was about 32 years old. I started to meditate. And to your point, when you meditate, you, you force yourself to actually silence your mind. Right? It's an incredibly difficult thing. It took me six months to figure out how to get right before I was like, you know what? This is working. And when you can figure out how to separate yourself from your thoughts and not kind of like get so emotionally wrapped up in them, it starts training your body to, or training your mind to start feeling like you're saying the, the right kind of things. And I've been an athlete my whole life, um, around 35 and I've been right, incredibly healthy, worked out six days a week for the past 25 years of my life eat perfectly meditate twice a day, track my sleep with ear devices. It was around 35 that I started to feel a lot of changes in my body. Right. Like, and it wasn't, it wasn't, Hey, this is in your head. It's like, no, legitimately there's something happening with your body. And I went to my doctor and I was like, Hey dude, like something is really wrong and check my blood. And he says, there's nothing wrong with you. And I said, no, because I've become, so I hate <laugh> I'm thinking of this is the right word to use ultrasensitive or really in tune with my body,

Speaker 1 (19:20):

A better listener to your own body. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (19:23):

A better listener to your own body. I kind of really understood that something is we're at the beginning of something dramatically shifting. And honestly it took me like six months of meeting 10 different specialists for someone to basically look at me and say, yeah, I mean, this is like a textbook case of like hypogonadism or low testosterone. Right? You've got the test levels of an 80 year old man, regardless of the fact that you're doing everything perfectly.

Speaker 1 (19:46):

Okay. I got a quick question for you. Why are we here? What is the purpose of life? How should we best spend our time to make ourselves happy? Well, these are the questions that people have grappled with for thousands of years. I don't know about you, but I definitely have mold these over from time to time. But here's the thing. Everyone, I believe needs to find their own answer. And here are a few books. I think that can set you on that path to get more clarity in life. Eckhart totally is the power of now. Jordan, Peterson's 12 rules for life. Victor Frankel's man search for meaning, instead of me just listening them all off here and you getting bombarded with cool chase yet had another book. I gotta read another book I gotta read. When am I gonna find time to do that? Well, today's partner short form is going to allow you to get the meat, the main chunks of information you need from these nonfiction books to help you have a happier, more fulfilled life, but save so much time in the process.

Speaker 1 (20:43):

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Speaker 2 (22:03):

So there's, I'll tell you about the two experiences I went through, right? Because they're so different. So my, my primary care physician, who's a concierge level doc. So you could argue like, you know, specialized training should be a little bit more in tune with what's going on. He looks at my, my, my testosterone levels and right. He pulled a bunch of different biomarkers and he says, you are a shiny example of health. And frankly, like, I think that you may be beginning to experience the beginning of actually, let me say this differently. I actually tell you exactly what he said. He said, middle Eastern men tend to get a little bit older, faster, and this could just be the beginning of old age. And I said, you got to be kidding you. That was exactly what he said. And he said, there's nothing wrong with you.

Speaker 2 (22:49):

It's all in your head. He literally said to me, I think you have some millennial angst essential angst. And I said, that is, I said, is that your professional opinion? He said, that is my professional opinion. I said, okay, I'm not gonna come back here. Uh, have a good one. And what the, the difference was when I finally met a group of hormone optimization, regenerative physicians, they took a look at the same blood work. Right. And they said, yeah, your, your test level is at 180 7 nanograms per deciliter. And according to this lab, you're in range. But if we were to think about any healthy 35 year old, that would be so far out of range, something is dramatically wrong. And then the next thing they said, cuz they were, they were really good at what they did is they said a large majority of the guys that we see are younger guys, just like you.

Speaker 2 (23:40):

Mm. Yeah. And that facet. So on one hand, you're like, thank God. It's just, it's not just me. Not alone. Yeah. And then I think the thing is like, that really fascinated me. I was like, huh, why would younger guys right now be having low testosterone levels? And I think you probably understand, you probably talk about this, but when you look at the scientific literature and this sounds conservatory from being real honest, right. But when you look at the, the fertilizers, the fallates, the PCBs and our food and our drinking water, the deodorants, we use

Speaker 1 (24:10):

Microplastics. That was one of the biggest realizations. Uh, did you, by chance to read, um, countdown familiar with that book about fertility?

Speaker 2 (24:18):

I not read countdown.

Speaker 1 (24:19):

Uh, I believe the author have to link it down, show it to everybody it's uh, Dr. Shawn Swan and, uh, was just mind blowing for both female and male, the declination in fertility rates and the carryover effect, unfortunately, to such things as our hormone levels and testosterone, especially for guys in microplastics, that was just like the blanket majority of what is crippling us as a species are hormones. Um, yeah. Really on brand with what you were kind of listing other as well.

Speaker 2 (24:47):

And you know what, like when I first read it, I was like, this is crazy. This is like from the Handmaid's tale or something like this doesn't seem like it's real. And to your point, what you find is that those microplastics, they essentially resemble estrogen compounds that for a woman mm-hmm, <affirmative> find, but for a man, they get into our body and they tell the hormone regulating centers in our brain, I ear hypothalamus and pituitary to stop endogenous or natural production. And so to your point, what's even more interesting is when you look at men from the prior generation, until now their testosterone levels were 25% higher and even more mind blowing their sperm count was 50% higher.

Speaker 1 (25:30):

Most of our first generation had no problem getting pregnant. I mean, if you look at the generation before us, you know, pretty much everybody's having multiple children. And now again, I don't know if it's just because of awareness theory or technology or whatever. Maybe a little bit of both, but I hear so often people my age and even younger going through fertility treatments, having fertility issues, whereas our parents were having kids at 20 22, 27. I mean just all throughout their twenties. No problem.

Speaker 2 (25:57):

Look, my, my grandmother has 11 children and my other grandmother has eight children. <laugh> wow. Wow. So, and, and here, my girl and I are now granted, I'm 40, she's also 35 and we're, we're freezing eggs just in case. Right. And so all my friends are in the same category. Everyone's going through IVF. Like it is a real thing at this point in time. And I think that people are finally starting to talk about it, but I think it's more women talking about it than men really talking about it at this point in time. And it's also because right. Women are just so much more mindful mm-hmm <affirmative> and in tune with what's happening with their bodies, they've been, they've had to deal with it since they were 11 years old. And the reality is right when we have a stomach ache, we lay on the couch and act like the, that the world is falling apart. And I think that for a lot of men to tell them that something is wrong with their sperm. I mean, they'd be like, no, it works. Like I'm, I'm, I'm, it's doing its job. I'm I'm, I'm going to town every night. And you're like, no, no, no, it may be working.

Speaker 1 (27:00):

It's not the same thing. It doesn't mean it's working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. <laugh> yeah. You know, you kind of bring up the listening aspect again. Um, maybe why we're so more in tune now with the concept of fertility and testosterone and just this other form of internal healthcare, um, is that we're actually, I think getting better at listening to our partners, listening to the women in our lives, carrying our children, listening to, uh, you know, a surrogate or whoever, you know, the, the, I think by us getting better at listening to our bodies has to carry over, to make us better listeners and our relationships with which is also reciprocal, right? The more harmony we can create with our own bodies and minds that resonates out to the harmony we can have and create with our relationships. And that is a way more conducive environment, lower stress, lower anxiety, which is all good things for your H your hormones and testosterone

Speaker 2 (27:49):

It's. So it's, I have a, I have a whiteboard here behind me in my office. Yeah, right. Um, <laugh> every month, my girl and I get on this whiteboard and we talk about a relationship and our life. Right. And at the beginning, God, it was so difficult because right. There's so things that are bottled up inside of you, that you necessarily don't know how to get out there. And the moment you do that, it feels like there's been like, all this weight lifted off your chest. Right. And all of a sudden communication actually opens up and things that you didn't think would transpire in your life kind of start to happen. And so I, I agree with you so much, right? Like I, I think a shift that we are going through is understanding that if you're really mindful, you can create a life that you really love.

Speaker 2 (28:38):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then you have to be, you have to think very carefully around, around what are the facets of my life that I really love. Do I only wanna work six hours a day, three days a week. That's fine. You can create a life around that. Is it important to have a deep relationship with your spouse or your partner, right. Uh, do you care about making sure that you can travel, uh, 10 days out of the month? That that's your thing. Right. And I think for people what's so great about where we are right now is when you take some time to kind of really conceptualize that perfect life. And it really, the, the, the perfect life is based upon where you are as a person right. Then and there. Right? Exactly. And that changes consistently throughout you kind of, as you age, and as you learn more and experience more, you can create it. Right. And I think that we are in this really interesting place of people are living kind of like what their idyllic lives were in their mind's eye.

Speaker 1 (29:32):

I, I know this is something that you not only went through personally, but took it a step further, took that entrepreneurial leap, you know, yet again, from what I understand in your history and, and created something to help other guys through this process. So I'm curious with what you and everybody does there at home, besides maybe this unique listening ability or getting better at listening or listening to our bodies for the first time and listening to our partners and just listening to God, the universe, our community, whatever around us, where else have you kind of seen through how you help other men, um, just kind of open up, where else have you seen? Like, I had no idea this was contributing to, or taking away from my health, my wellness, my fertility, my strength. I mean, all these things that kind of work around TRT and other hormone therapies.

Speaker 2 (30:19):

So the, the most interesting thing we've learned, right? Like I'd almost argue like the principle insight that our business operates on is when most people come to us, they think about testosterone as a, as a big muscle and a D shot, literally. And it's, and it's kind of crude if I'm being kind of honest. Right. And what's interesting is when you talk to our customers, what they say are things like I can't get on the ground and play with my kids anymore. I actually can't have a real conversation with my spouse or my partner, because I don't have the patience to find my words and actually listen to them. Wow. They say things like, I can't go to my job anymore and put in the kind of hours because I can't concentrate. And that doesn't allow me to earn more money for the people I love.

Speaker 2 (31:10):

And so then they make this other statement. Right. Which is, it sounds like you're just an incredibly surface level comment, but it's super deep, which is, I just wanna feel like my myself again and have as much energy as I used to. And when you think about what that means, it's like the best way to think about it is for people that have really low testosterone, it feels like you're kind of depressed. It feels like you're a little heartbroken and it feels like, uh, you are actually a little bit hungover. So right. Think about that. You don't have energy, you can't focus. You don't feel like yourself. You're always walking in a little bit of a haze and, and really we don't, we don't actually, I will say this, even though I am an optimizer myself, uh, in terms of all the different things that I take, we really serve men that are truly hyper gona have like clinically low testosterone that are in pain.

Speaker 2 (32:04):

Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and so when they come to us, the kind of things we hear are you change my life. Uh, I can finally see the dreams that I used to have being a reality. I have a relationship with my, my wife. Again, my kids don't feel like I'm ripping them off and I can actually be a father again. And so it's like really, it's far more emotional than, than I think a lot of people really realize. And then what's interesting is, and you kind of talked about this before, when most guys come to you, they're not coming to you where they're kind of in a bad place. They're coming to you when they're rock bottom very often. Like they are completely in a hole.

Speaker 1 (32:42):

That's usually what it takes for us to actually admit we have a problem. Right?

Speaker 2 (32:47):

You, you nailed

Speaker 1 (32:48):

It. Another old that's we're trying to get out of.

Speaker 2 (32:51):

And it's so interesting though. Cause right. It's usually like I've tried eat pills. I've tried antidepressants. Uh, maybe I've gone to therapy, I've gone to the gym more often. I'm trying to eat a little better, but none of those things are working. And the most interesting thing is when guys are at their lowest 0.1 or two things happens. Right. And I'm, I'm simplifying here. One, they say, I want to turn over and I'm gonna resign my myself to progressively getting worse. And that's what life is. Cuz that's what happened with my father.

Speaker 1 (33:19):

I'm just gonna explain this second, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:22):

Yeah. I'm like, I'll never forget. There was a guy that we did market research with and the most extreme version of something I heard someone say was, you know what? I was cutting. I was cutting wood. One day I had a chainsaw. I realized I could take care of my family because I had a really great life insurance plan. And I thank God, I didn't do it. But like, those are the kind of like crazy thoughts and can sometimes go through through guys' minds. Right. And, and no one will talk about that. Like we had guys crying in this, in this, in this focus group, they finally got to get all these things off their chest. The, the second one they go through is they say, this is unacceptable. I've gained a bunch of weight. I want my life back. And what they do is they say, I am now on a journey to figure out how to become better than I was before. And what's so interesting is the moment they start getting on medication, the medication is not what changes you, right? Uhhuh,

Speaker 1 (34:15):

Uh,

Speaker 2 (34:15):

Yeah. The medication gives you a little bit of momentum in your life. So you have a little bit more energy. And when you have a little bit of Mo momentum and some more energy in your life, you then have to take it and do something useful with it, right? Yeah. You, you, you maybe can work better. You can spend more time with the people you love. Uh, you can go to the gym and work out a little better. And by doing those things, you then start to build your confidence back up. And it is that kind of momentum that a lot of guys then say, okay, I've gotten this far, what's the next step. And they almost go through like this enlightenment of sorts when they're at their darkest place. But it very often takes us getting to our darkest place to realize I want to find or construc the strength to take the next one,

Speaker 1 (34:57):

You know, and for me, um, you know, I, I owe a lot of my initial emotional wellbeing and mental health work to getting me to a point where when I turned 36 to not wanna wait until I was at rock bottom, because I've been, I've been rock bottom, you know, physically I've gone through some pretty major injuries myself. Um, my audience has heard many times, but you know, a long story short, six years active duty in the army suffered career ending injuries about year four and a half. And I was basically a patient for the next year and a half. And so, I mean, I've been physically rock bottom, you know, I've rehabilitated to the end degree and I'm very grateful for that, but it really was my mental rock bottom, my PTSD that went unchecked for 12 years, that really brought me to my knees in a way that I, I don't ever want to have to relive because of what it did to me and the unfair test that it placed on the relationships in my life at the time. Um, and so like, I'm like, I don't wanna wait until I'm at rock bottom anymore. And so I hope to the guy, to the person listening right now that maybe is almost there. Don't wait until rock bottom. You owe it to yourself. And you are capable of checking in with yourself sooner than you think to optimize yourself sooner than you think so that you don't have to scrape the bottom before you try to crawl your way back out again. Um, just a little personal 2 cents there.

Speaker 2 (36:27):

Well, one thank you for your service, right? Um, thank you. Thank you. That what you do is, is far probably braver than what most of us do. And the very simple fact that we, as a country don't understand how real the, the PTSD, the suicidal ideation, uh, from vets is, is actually shocking, right? I'm actually on the board of, uh, a company called rally point, which is the one of the largest military communities in the country. I think we have like 5 million members now at this point in time. And they've put all of their efforts actually into building machine learning that can identify people that specifically that are having problems. I, and literally send help medical help to them. Right. It's fascinating what they're doing. They're working with Harvard, they're working with Amazon now and, and your, your point is completely right. Right. Which is as a guy, you have to start asking yourself the question mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (37:26):

<affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>

Speaker 2 (37:28):

Am I, am I happy? Am I starting to slow down? Why am I not happy? And the moment you can actually answer, like, yeah, I probably am not. Or probably I have like a touch of depression, which you have to realize, like that's super normal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and it's, it's not a bad thing. I would

Speaker 1 (37:42):

Argue. It's not a bad thing at all. It's that, that specific question, you know, am I happy? You know, these check-ins that you're talking about when we fi or when we create or produce an answer that maybe we're afraid of, or we hope it's not there, anything other than great, awesome. Killing it, whatever, like, that's not a bad thing. Like I, I just wanted to drive that point home. Like, it's a very, very good thing that you are aware of that now

Speaker 2 (38:06):

You nailed it. I, I think you're completely right. Like the most, that entire exercise I go through with that binder, it's all about me understanding what's not right. And it's actually the moment you realize what's not right. Then you can say to yourself, how do I want to fix this? But you have to remember, what's not right. May be a function of things we've done in the past, but it does not define what happens in the future. And, and there's so many resources now to, to think about how to, and I don't wanna say fix yourself, cuz it's not mm-hmm <affirmative> but to evolve and to kind of really realize the person that you've always wanted to be. Right. That's kind of what we speak about all the time is the potential potential potential with our customers. And that's really what they want to kind of UNAP.

Speaker 1 (38:48):

You know, when it comes to our hormones, when it comes to testosterone, these actual biomarkers that can be at the root of these symptoms, we may be experiencing. Is it really just a matter of a certain age? Um, what other practices can we do? Do you do, do you recommend other than just like hitting benchmarks at age to get certain biomarkers checked? Like, what else can we be doing to check in with ourself that we then might find a hormone imbalance or a low level of something could be at the root?

Speaker 2 (39:22):

Well, let's, let's quickly just talk about what happens as you start to age. Sure.

Speaker 1 (39:27):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:27):

Please. Just so we can head on it. Right? So when you turn about 30, what ends up happening is a lot of your body's natural processes. They start to slow down. One of those being is, uh, the total amount of testosterone in your body is producing decreases between one and two percentage points per year. So if you're 30, you happen to have a relatively fast decrease. Then by the time your 50, 40% of what your body naturally produces actually gone. Right? Yeah. And so first and foremost, the things that you want to do naturally that don't cost a dime. Right? And these are gonna sound duplicative to a large degree. You're gonna want to make sure you sleep six to eight or I would say seven to eight hours a night and people don't realize

Speaker 1 (40:09):

Like team sleep, baby. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:11):

Just, yeah. And it's funny you say deep sleep. Like I see, I see, is that a whoop on your wrist and or on your finger?

Speaker 1 (40:17):

Yeah. Whoop, uh, whoop wedding band and uh, apple watch. Yeah. And then I've got the smart bed and everything and all the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (40:24):

There you go. And deep sleep is arguably one of the single most important things that people don't think about. And so you have to sleep really well. Right? Like, and so you have to check in every night. Am I actually, do I have a routine that puts me into a deep sleep pattern, right? Those things are super easy. Keep the temperature lower 65 to like 67 degrees. Maybe meditate really quickly before. Maybe take some melatonin. Uh, this sounds silly. Get an eye mask. Oh right.

Speaker 1 (40:53):

Game changer. Game

Speaker 2 (40:55):

Changer, game changer.

Speaker 1 (40:56):

I have, I have two. I have one in my bedroom and I always have one in my suitcase, man. That's a nonnegotiable for me.

Speaker 2 (41:02):

It's I'm so happy to hear you

Speaker 1 (41:03):

Say that it's the best $7 I ever spent for my sleep health. <laugh>

Speaker 2 (41:07):

Right. I remember the first couple times I wore it. My girl made so much fun of me. My dogs would wanna pull it off my face. And I was like, no, you don't get it. Like I'm waking up better than you are.

Speaker 1 (41:16):

Oh, he thinks he's a B

Speaker 2 (41:18):

He's clowning.

Speaker 1 (41:18):

<laugh>

Speaker 2 (41:20):

So right. You're sleeping. Mm-hmm <affirmative> there is simple stress reduction techniques, right? So much of your, your body's hormones and how they operate is are you placing yourself in a constant kind of fight or flight state? Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> and there's simple things. Right? I run a, I've been building tech companies now for the past 12 or 13 years of my life. I'm constantly in what one could argue, like a flight or flight, cuz there's always fires working 16 hours a day. But the simple fact, I do a couple breathing exercises. I meditate. It keeps you like very emotionally kind of like balanced. And I would argue for people that say, I can't meditate, take 10 deep breaths twice a day. Just stop, take 10 deep breaths. Uh, the other one is just walk. I think it's shocking. People think that they've gotta go out and crush it at the gym. No, no, no. Just go out. Walk for 25 or 30 minutes. I promise you if you're not doing anything and you're sitting on your ass all day long, that'll be a game changer.

Speaker 1 (42:19):

Especially if doing outside,

Speaker 2 (42:23):

Especially you nailed it too, right? Like if you can do it barefoot walking on a field, even better. So you're grounding, but like more than anything, getting some sun, especially early in the morning. I don't know if you're, if you listen, toy Andrew hub bin, but like, it really kinda resets your circadian rhythms. First thing in the morning, um, drinking water, right? Like another huge freebie that's game changing. There you go. Always,

Speaker 1 (42:47):

Always. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (42:48):

Always. Right. Like I wake up in the morning, there's a leader. That's on my bed. I chug it before my feet hit the ground religiously have two liters during the day. Right. Also things that are easy to check in with, um, cutting out all the processed foods, not drinking alcohol, don't smoke. Like it's all the things that are easy that people tell us that a lot of us kind of just like brush off. You do those things. Most of the time you're gonna be okay. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then if you don't do those things, um, go get your blood checked pretty regularly. Right. You know, what we do is we basically send a kid out to your house. You prick your finger, you give us several drops of blood. We analyze it for eight different hormones and then do like a 30 minute audio visual console between you and a physician.

Speaker 2 (43:35):

So they can like really dig into first and foremost, who are you as a guide? What do you want to accomplish in your life? Let's talk through your blood. And then after that, let's actually like come up with a plan and talk about all about the benefits and also the side effects of it. And I think that generally, if you're doing all those things at the beginning, that for free and you're still having problems, then you should probably think about medical treatment. But I also think it is, it is not bad at all to be checking your biomarkers pretty regularly every six months and not just testosterone. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I'm talking about like full CBC blood workup, looking at your L LDL, HDL, IGF levels, thyroid levels. Um, all of like your basic vitamins, uh, as well too, I think that you should be keeping a log and kind of just like mm-hmm, <affirmative> looking them on a pretty daily, consistent basis. Like at this point in time, I've got eight years of consistent blood work underneath me, uh, that I can kind of point to. And that, and so I think it's really helpful with your, with your physicians when thinking about like where you're trying to go.

Speaker 1 (44:38):

Yeah. Um, I get asked a lot of questions around our, our states of wellbeing and regardless of what the person might be asking me pretty much nine times outta 10, the first thing outta my mouth or first thing in my text DMS is, um, when was your last labs? When did you last get labs drawn? What were they, what were the results? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I'm like still sad to see so many people you out there <laugh> in my audience that tell me like, oh, uh, I don't know. Oh. Or like two, three years ago. I mean, other than like a very obvious acute kind of thing going on, I will be like, all right, cool. Start there. And then like you have your baseline for so many foundational components to your wellbeing, physical, mental, emotional, you'd be surprised of what a low biomarker or a non-optimized for you biomarker can translate to physiologically what it can like manifest as in your life. All the things we've been talking about here. But sometimes we feel like we're grasping at straws when we really could just be grasping at a single biomarker and that's a lot more easy to manage and maintain.

Speaker 2 (45:44):

It's it's interesting. You use the word how that biomarker is manifesting itself in your life. And I think that's another really deep statement, right? Which is, I I'll give you an example. One of our investors who you would argue, um, should know about testosterone, cuz they're one of our investors incredibly successful, uh, real estate developer. I, I caught up with him the other day and he said, look, all of a sudden, I'm having problems with my relationship. I feel depressed all the time. I'm still getting deals done, but like, it's just not exciting. And I said, did you check your testosterone level? And he said, no, I's no way that this is due to my testosterone levels. Like this is, uh,

Speaker 1 (46:23):

I'm different thing. I said,

Speaker 2 (46:27):

Don't listen, send you one of these kits. I want you to check your chest, test your levels. He tests it. He is like on the ground basically. Right. You're talking about like 200 nanograms for deciliter. And I was like, dude, I told you like, just fix this one thing. And your point is so valid, which is if you figure out which of the biomarkers it is and you fix that, it can manifest itself in your life in so many different ways. And I think people don't give it enough credit. They just think, and I think a lot of the blood markers, we look at like HDL, LDL, am I, do I have high blood pressure? Do I have high cholesterol? A lot of those things you don't feel necessary, blood pressure differently with like high cholesterol, different. Um, you definitely very often don't feel, I guess until you have a heart attack maybe.

Speaker 1 (47:17):

Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately too late. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:20):

And, and I think that one of the things we have to normalize is that if you figure out or the way you are feeling is very often in direct relationship to what's happening in your body and the chemistry

Speaker 1 (47:35):

More often than not more often than not man. Absolutely. Right. Um, well normalizing conversations like this is what I'm after and the purpose here of the show. So to kind of bring it home to the concept of ever Ford radio to live a life ever for, um, it is normalizing key conversations like this. It is becoming aware of unique biomarkers, just sensations in our lives that we can become aware of first optimize second and then maintain as we see fit to, to propels Ford. So I always want to get my guest interpretation of that, man. So, so I'm curious those two words ever Ford, how do they fall on you today? What does that mean to you to live a life ever Ford?

Speaker 2 (48:19):

Uh, man, that's actually, um, it, it's, it's very timely. Right? Uh, and I'll, and I'll make it very personal. Um, my father is right. I, I kind of mentioned it in, in the, in the prior notes that my father is like this superhero, incredibly smart guy. That's that's discovered multiple particles. And the reality is like he never took his health seriously. Right. And when he didn't take his health seriously, he was diagnosed with type two diabetes when he was 35, my age that became type one diabetes that became kidney disease over the past couple, uh, over the past couple months he's had like three strokes, right. And, and he gets, goes to dialysis with his strokes constantly and is, and just doesn't stop. And he constantly moves forward and he used to sing this song to me growing up, it's called CDOs. I mean, he's sang it to me.

Speaker 2 (49:18):

I've heard it a thousand times. I don't know why I never took the time to like understand what it means. And yesterday, uh, he's sang it to me. And I was like, why don't I know what this means? And I looked it up right. And it's really, it's a really, it's a poem, uh, from this famous poet Al and it talks about once you've, you've reached like a mountaintop and once you're in a place where you're comfortable, don't be comfortable. Go find your next one. And if you can't see it, remember that the world or the universe you're living in is one that you've created and their infinite number of universes next to you and for you to constantly challenge yourself and up level throughout your life. And so when I hear ever forward, right, it, it, it rings true to me in that no matter what is happening, continue to push.

Speaker 2 (50:09):

And I would actually kind of like almost draw it to like entrepreneurship to a large degree when people come to come to great interview with us and, you know, I always ask them, I say, tell me about how you approach problems, right? And there's this very like interesting stoic philosophy of, uh, basically the obstacle is the way, right? Which is if, if you believe that life is nothing but a series of obstacles and you're already anticipating them, you won't complain. You won't get upset when you see them. You'll just realize, well, that's a rock. I, I gotta climb it. Like, that's just what people will do. They climb rocks. And so I, I guess like when I hear error forward, right building this business has been hard and we've been very lucky. It's become the largest online optimization clinic in the country in, in two years.

Speaker 2 (50:57):

Right. And if I told you about the number of problems I see on a daily basis, 10, 15 problems that are feel like they're insurmountable, kind of the way I look at it is like ever forward, you just gotta push through it, man. Like that's just part of life. And it's very often like once you build that muscle of solving problems over and over and over again, you actually feel indestructible. Right? Nothing's getting in your way, you kind of say, this is where I'm going. I'm getting there. You guys with me. Great. If not, fuck it. I'm going. Yeah. And so I think, uh, I think the name was actually chosen in a very point and intelligent, and I would say like with a lot of care. So I, I, I appreciate it,

Speaker 1 (51:38):

You know, um, I, I, I received that. Uh, thank you so much for interpretation and sharing, you know, and to give you even a little bit more backstory ever Ford, actually it comes from my late father who unfortunately passed away in 2005 from ALS Lou GEs disease. And, um, you know, literally until his dying breath, it was just no matter what ever for ever for the obstacles, the way the impediment to action advances action, big Ryan holiday guy over here as well. Um, so that's really cool to hear him, man. Thank you for interpretation.

Speaker 2 (52:07):

Yeah, of course. And I'm, I'm sorry to hear about your father, but it sounds like he, uh, had one hell of an impression on you so much so that you're making your

Speaker 1 (52:13):

Mission. Yeah, he did. He did for damn sure. And uh, now we're doing the damn thing, so <laugh> damn

Speaker 2 (52:18):

Right.

Speaker 1 (52:19):

Uh, well, side's been a pleasure having you on the show. My man, thank you so much for sharing your personal experience and more importantly for not, not resting on solving a problem for yourself, but now creating more solutions for other guys out there that have a problem and know it or do, and don't know it, maybe a combination of the two there, but, um, TRT and just becoming more in tune with myself as a man physically, mentally, emotionally over the last several years has just made my overall wellbeing to the ends degree. So, uh, we need more people like yourself providing services and content like this, man. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (52:54):

Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, it was an absolute pleasure and hopefully your listeners got something out of this, which is don't sit, still do something.

Speaker 1 (53:01):

Yeah, absolutely. Man, for more information on everything you just heard, make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to ever radio.com.