EFR 630: Veteran Mental Health Needs and Why Integration and Accountability Are Essential for Lasting Healing with Kelsi Sheren

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

The following is an operation podcast production.

Speaker 2 (00:00:03):

Hi, I'm Kelsey Sharon. I'm the CEO of brass and unity and the host of the brass and unity podcast today on ever for radio. We talked about everything from psychedelics accountability to healing, not only for yourself, but for others. So make sure that you try every single day to be a better person and you will do amazing things.

Speaker 1 (00:00:20):

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Speaker 1 (00:02:19):

Welcome back to the show, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in with me here today. You're tuning in live is Monday baby. So let's get ready to take over the world, take over the day and let's let it be us. Not Monday that takes the win today. Okay. I am joined by homey and fellow veteran, Kelsey sheen, and we are diving into a topic that is very near and dear to my heart's very close to home because it's something that I care about in general for our overall wellness, human performance and success in life. And that's our mental health, our emotional health, but particularly for my veteran community, I myself serve six years active duty in the us army. I, I have a diagnosis of P T S D I've suffered a TBI. I've been through a lot of different things in my military career and life in general, that has shaken me, that has given me a lot of reasons to be grateful, but has made me really need to work, want to work, to stay optimized both physically and mentally and integrating mental health practices by going to a therapist and a lot of different modalities that Kelsey and I are gonna talk about today is really the call to action is really the wake up call that I wish I had years and years and years ago when I was suffering.

Speaker 1 (00:03:39):

When so many of my peers were suffering. Unfortunately, two of my closest friends that I had while I was active duty, it was too much for them and their mental health went unchecked and they ultimately wound up taking their own lives. And I never ever, ever want a single person to have to feel that pain and to make that choice because the pain ripples throughout the community, throughout your friends, your family, and, uh, there's not a day that goes by that in some way, shape or form. I'm not thinking of those guys. So Kelsey, thank you so much for being such an advocate for such a voice for this matter for our veteran community, but just for everyone for you listening right now, I hope that this causes something in you to just stir up, to wake up and to choose you and to choose your mental health as an important piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 1 (00:04:31):

But let's dive into the show. Shall we look every veteran, the first responder deserves healing peace and a thriving life. But unfortunately so many of us, so many of these types of people and people in general are struggling with mental illnesses like PTSD and struggle to live the lives that they want, that they deserve. But you know, what, if we look hard enough, there is a silver lining. We can find meaning to whatever we are going through. So meet Kelsey Sherin. She is a veteran author, mother wellness and mental health advocate. She's the CEO and founder of brass and unity host of the brass and unity podcast, which I've had the pleasure of being on. I'll make sure to link that episode for you. One of my favorites to date Kelsey is an incredible force in the veteran community because she has dedicated her post-military life to helping fellow soldiers, fellow service members really get a second chance at life in our conversation today, Kelsey and I talk about her efforts in raising mental health awareness for these veteran communities.

Speaker 1 (00:05:35):

We also are gonna talk about a lot of different therapies and modalities holistically and different tactics for healing ourselves and others, Kelsey, and I share a lot of great resources and information for mental health and for the veteran mental health community and everything. We talk about such as vet solutions, defenders of freedom, heroic hearts, project wave neuro, um, are all gonna be listed for you down in the show notes. So if you wanna check out anything, um, this is all my opinion. Kelsey's opinion her experience, my experience, but anything we have experienced good, bad or ugly, but best believe the good we are gonna share. We're gonna share proudly. And we are gonna share our experience with them. Um, the value that it gave us and you know, what maybe it can do for you. So please take all of this in as our experiences.

Speaker 1 (00:06:27):

Uh, neither one of us are, we're not mental health experts, but we are people that have suffered poor mental health for long periods of time, uh, acutely chronically. And we are people that have decided to just take back our power a little bit and to prioritize this as a very important part to our life. Damn sure. To our overall wellbeing. Thank you so much for tuning in here today. If you're new to the show, welcome, thank you for tuning in if, uh, you have not yet done. So if you want to support the show in just the smallest little way, no matter where you're listening, no matter where you're watching on YouTube ever Ford radio.com, Spotify, apple podcast, if you just tap that subscribe button, that follow button, honestly, it really does mean a lot and supports the show in a big, big way. So for that I say thank you and not to make light of any situation, especially when we're talking about mental health, but unfortunately, a lot of us when we are not in a good place mentally, emotionally, we look for coping mechanisms.

Speaker 1 (00:07:28):

And for a lot of us that looks like alcohol. I definitely have been there. I will flat out say openly. And honestly there were years of my life where I was definitely abusing alcohol. I was drinking too much too often. I thought that's what I needed to do in order to have a good time to fit in. Um, it was no longer just something I was doing on the weekends, but during the weekend, you know, especially in the military, at least when I was in, um, the drinking scene was very strong and it's something that I, I think again, in my experience, I saw a lot of alcohol abuse and even a lot of alcoholism, a lot of substance abuse, such as alcohol, be a primary coping mechanism for people in the military. And not only is that unhealthy for your mental health, but it definitely doesn't help your performance.

Speaker 1 (00:08:19):

I can think of so many times when I would roll up to PT at O dark 30 and you know what, probably legally I might have still been drunk. I, you know what, it was a long time ago and I'm on the other side of it now. But, um, it definitely doesn't help when you're trying to take care of your body. And whether you are maybe feeling like this is you, or you're very much in control of your alcohol consumption, no matter how you choose to drink, if you choose to drink, there is a way I have found to help mitigate a lot of those unwanted physical detriments the next day, um, here at ever for radio, I'm all about what can we do to learn more about the human body, the human mind, and optimize it so that no matter what choice we make, because it is our life and we can choose whatever we want to do, but we can do so with more knowledge and more empowerment to hopefully just, you know, enjoy that moment, but not have to pay for it as much later on, which is why I have been so stoked to find and now to partner with more labs and particularly their morning recovery drink, because look, no matter how much fun you're having the day after drinking can honestly still suck.

Speaker 1 (00:09:30):

And that's why they created morning recovery. It's the drink for when you drink? All you gotta do is just pop it open. It's like a little, a little, little bottle, almost like, you know, a little energy shot or something, but it's, <laugh>, uh, don't wanna feel like crap. The next day after drinking shot, you just take one little bottle while you're drinking and you'll feel so much better the next day or your money back. And here's exactly why it uses a patent pending plant derived superhero formula that helps speed up the breakdown of alcohol induced toxins. So you're gonna wake up feeling 100%. You're gonna feel so much better. You're gonna feel like, wait a minute. Did I actually have any alcohol? I promise you it works. I share this with my friends when we're traveling, when we're out drinking, you know, if that's just a glass or two of wine at night or several more on the weekend, this stuff works.

Speaker 1 (00:10:19):

It's so incredible. So if you guys wanna try it out, I love it. I keep it stocked in my pantry, in my travel bag. This stuff blows people's minds. Every time I share it with them, you can actually save 20% off of your order with code forward. All you gotta do is head to more labs.com. That's M O R E L a bs.com. Pick you up morning recovery. I love their new mango flavor, but personally I think my favorite overall is their sugar free lemon. And then at checkout use code forward, that's F O R w a R D for 20% off of your order. Thank you to more labs for partnering with us here on the show. Thank you for Kelsey sitting down with me in person here in the studio. You guys definitely wanna check on the video. Uh, we got it for you on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (00:10:59):

It's on ever Ford radio.com as always. It's linked for you down in the show notes, just like every call to action, every resource. And the more labs link is down under episode resources today. So without further ado, welcome to ever Ford radio Kelsey. It was a pleasure. Let's dive in social media woke, fuck boys, um, trending mental health bandwagon. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> kind of what we were just diving into a little bit, but Kelsey, first and foremost, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Um, and you are like my favorite type of people <laugh> it's loud. Well, you know, you have a voice, so use it. Yeah. Um, for a lot of different ways. Mm-hmm <affirmative> we were just talking about what we see that we like in the world of mental health awareness, particularly for veteran communities mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and where we see really needing to tread lightly.

Speaker 1 (00:11:53):

Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> and I was sharing with you that I had this opportunity come down my line and really to, to, I guess I can say to represent this community in a very big way. Mm-hmm <affirmative> in a very big national way. And I'm all for the advocacy of veterans people, but particularly veterans having mental health conversations and getting the help they need, but straddling that line of not being a woke fuck PO <laugh> and not just capitalizing on something mm-hmm <affirmative> I would never do that, but it's hard in the perception of that did not come off that way sometimes, you know, it's just the way that certain things go mm-hmm <affirmative>, especially with social media.

Speaker 2 (00:12:38):

Yeah. It's uh, Hm. There's a lot to that. I mean, I'm not an expert in any of these things, so, but what I can tell you is what I'm trying to do in the community, what I'm trying to help people with. What I'm trying to educate people on is, is all comes from personal experience. It, I won't ever, you're

Speaker 1 (00:12:57):

An expert in being you.

Speaker 2 (00:12:58):

I try to be me and I try to be very vulnerable about that. And I also try to tell people where I've made the mistakes and where I would stay away from only because it's how it affected me, but I would never advocate for something. Um, if I haven't tried it, if I haven't experienced it, if I haven't looked into it enough where I feel safe to advocate on behalf of it, I just won't do it for money. I won't, I won't. That's why, if you look at the brass and unity podcast, we have a handful of sponsors that I, I advocate for heavily because I believe in the ethos, I believe in the people themselves behind it, but I'm not going to be the person who's Hawking 27 different products just because it gets me money. I would rather grow super organically, super slow and have people go, oh, you know what, she's authentic because she's stuck to her guns on things. When you're looking at the partnership or the opportunity that you are, speaking of, how deep do you wanna go? Like, what can you say about it? So then we can have that yeah. Kind of conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:13:53):

Great, great approach. Thank you. <laugh> and actually it really to, I guess, maybe kind of talk about like the entrepreneurial angle. Yeah. You know, how, when, you know, people like ourselves and viewers and listeners, you have a platform and you begin to really use it for the meaning that you started out for, but also like, Hey, maybe it can be something else. Maybe you can monetize. Maybe it could be a great opportunity driver. Um, and they asked me this question, um, and I was very, actually very proud of myself for kind of catching and shifting the, the narrative of this cuz it was like, Hey, how can we partner together? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and they asked me what, well, what's your mission in this? And I'm assuming here that they were asking me my mission in the partnership. Mm-hmm <affirmative> how do you work together with brands? What do you do? And I completely just shifted and I, I, I told them my mission, like me as like chase tuning,

Speaker 2 (00:14:48):

What are you trying to drive forward?

Speaker 1 (00:14:50):

Yeah. And then I, I let that kind of lead after that. And I, I think that for the first time, maybe it's just because the, the sensitivity of the, the subject matter, we're talking about veterans, we're talking about mental health, we're talking about, you know, representing that. And I, I felt like it, it deserved a lot of like delicacy. Um, but it made me really think about how, like, I should be approaching this with every conversation I have about any and every opportunity mm-hmm <affirmative>, especially if it's a monetized opportunity, because like that is going to serve both people in the long run. I think the brand and the person to your point of not selling out of not having a million, one different this and that. But, um, it just, it reminded me of how important this is. Mm-hmm <affirmative> to shift the entire narrative of a potential opportunity.

Speaker 2 (00:15:38):

And I think the opportunity that you're talking about is a huge one. And I think, um, there's, it's going in the right direction. There. Here's the thing, I think what they're trying to do, they have the right intent. Mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (00:15:51):

<affirmative>,

Speaker 2 (00:15:52):

But they're not looking at the other side of it and the dangers that could be accompanied with that, but also the liability that could be accompanied with that.

Speaker 1 (00:15:59):

Yeah. And let's, let's open up a little bit more go for, so it's gonna help you. I appreciate your, uh,

Speaker 2 (00:16:04):

I know how

Speaker 1 (00:16:04):

To dance awareness <laugh> um, so I've talked about it on the show. Okay. I've gone through ketamine assisted psychotherapy, correct. I talk about it very publicly. I talk about my use of psychedelics and me going back to mental health and just me having new therapies and modalities in my wellness, in my mental health, particularly mm-hmm <affirmative> and this organization is one that provides those services at home through telehealth, basically. Correct. And while I do want to advocate for people a, just having this on your radar mm-hmm <affirmative> oh, wow. I really, I don't have a mental health priority. I don't have a mental health routine. I don't when's the last time I went and saw a therapist or I even talked to my doctor about what's going on in my head, in my heart mm-hmm <affirmative> so I like that. I like how it brings access to a lot of people in terms of cost in terms of location.

Speaker 1 (00:16:53):

But the experience is very, very, uh, unique, profound, potentially dangerous. Yes. If you don't have the right set setting, people screening mm-hmm <affirmative> and to this organization's credit, I had them walk me through like all of that walk, walk me through all their screening, like everything. And it was more than I was expecting. And I was glad to hear that. But what happens when you have someone undergoing a modality mm-hmm <affirmative> at home that is cracking open memories, traumas in a way that most likely you've never, ever experienced mm-hmm <affirmative> in your brain. Can't fathom what happens when that happens and maybe it's a trigger and you go back to that trauma. Maybe you become unsafe to yourself or your sitter, or maybe you have a weapon in the house mm-hmm <affirmative> um, is this type of healing at home possible, do you think, is it, is it, is there a way to go about this safety to bring healing to the masses in a unique way like this?

Speaker 2 (00:17:59):

I mean, I I'd have to really sit down and think very, uh,

Speaker 1 (00:18:03):

That's a tough question,

Speaker 2 (00:18:04):

Really, really deep about that. Uh, because I would like to think that it's no different, like, okay, let's take psilocybin. For example, people have access to it. I'm public about it. I'm microdose weekly. Um, I'm on the Monday, Tuesday on

Speaker 1 (00:18:20):

Today's microdose for me.

Speaker 2 (00:18:21):

Yeah. Yeah. Monday, Tuesday on Wednesday off Thursday, Friday. Um, I do iowaska people. I sit with IA. People are very aware of it. Um, I use cannabis. I've been a cannabis activist since I, before I was pregnant. When I was getting off of pharmaceutical medication, I, I fully use C, B, D and micro amounts of THC while pregnant to handle the actual stress. Because now we understand that when a child is being developed in the womb, the less stress it's under, the better the brain can develop. And so those correlate, um, that being said, when you're talking about accessibility, a lot of people don't have access to these types of healing modalities, whether it's education, whether it's they grew up in a family where it was like, you know, the whole, um, what's that conversation with cannabis where it's like the

Speaker 1 (00:19:05):

Devil's list. Oh, you mean? Yeah. Bio

Speaker 2 (00:19:07):

Bringing it, right? Yeah, exactly. But

Speaker 1 (00:19:08):

Anybody in the south probably.

Speaker 2 (00:19:10):

Yeah. But alcohol was okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But alcohol was okay, but that wasn't so, you know, you're looking at whole different range of issues. When you're talking about a large scale society, uh, tapping into healing modalities. They may have no research, no knowledge or no education on which is listen, that's fine. You wanna do you, you do you, but there becomes a responsibility. And the responsibility lies with not only the company, but individuals that are going to support and uplift that company. I've, I've had this conversation recently with several individuals about, um, influencers and people of influence in our community and outside of our community. And when one person says something, if they're big enough, they attach everything to it and it could be a complete lie and people do it all the time. It's happened to me. It's happened to me publicly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:19:58):

Yeah. And I, I sit there and I will never, I'll never deviate for whom whom I am. So I I'm fine with that. I'm I'm okay with that. Um, because I know at the end of the day, I know what I promote and why I promote. And I also know that as long as you know yourself, I can be comfortable saying all of these things because I, I, I will go back to saying, I said that, or maybe I shouldn't have said that, but I'll take ownership. So when you're looking at promoting something like this, and you're looking at really giving people educations for social platforms, I'm really quite concerned about this at home type of treatment.

Speaker 1 (00:20:33):

And to be specific, we're talking about at home, mm-hmm <affirmative> ketamine assisted psychotherapy.

Speaker 2 (00:20:37):

Okay. That's that's the, that's the topic. Yeah. So if you're looking at that, so like I said, people have access to cannabis, they go and they do large doses on their own. They, you know, they do that. People haves, SIL Sabin, they go do hero doses on their own. Like, people are gonna do whatever they're gonna do. They're gonna get their hands on it. Yeah. We do it too. We go to the woods and Whistler and we sit there and talk to the trees cuz that's sometimes what's necessary. Um, Joshua tree mm-hmm <affirmative> but things like ketamine. Yeah. Things like five M EEO, DMT, things like even heavy doses of psilocybin. Things like iowaska hard. I am a real big believer set in setting. And also not just sitters guided guide guide guide, um, people who understand that when you are screaming at the top of your lungs and you're going through something and you're so in something I know that I would've never been able to go through any of the treatments I've had without those people there, either blowing smoke on my face, holding my puke bucket, or just saying you are safe.

Speaker 2 (00:21:38):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I've been with vets during, um, ketamine therapies. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I've heard experiences of the time. I wasn't there to the difference to the time I sat there and held that person's hand and the entire time while they were in it, mm-hmm <affirmative> they looked in my face. I just kept saying, you are safe. You are safe, you are safe. And when that person came out of it, they said to me, I will never ever do this again. If you are not sitting beside me, but it's not me. It's a person that can help guide through that really difficult. And you can see when it's happening. Right. So I, I do see an issue with this. Um, whether it is because it's new and I haven't seen how it's gonna be flushed out. But I think when you give people access to something that can, if they are on, um, SSRIs, if they are on other medications and say, they don't tell the person, they're not honest about it.

Speaker 2 (00:22:35):

They are, they already have issues that are up their borderline bipolar. They don't know it, that they have schizophrenia and the family, they don't know it. You are now setting yourself up for a liability. And if somebody, God forbid, whoever forbid, whatever you believe in forbid, something happens and they get access to a weapon, cuz it could be just a kitchen knife. It could be a pen. It could be, it could be a pen. It could be a baseball box. Arm could be, it could be anything, whatever. Yeah. And they go and do something horrific that company. They're about the liability there. They're gonna, they're gonna have issues. There's inevitably something will happen. And it's no fault of yours or whomever who supports them or whomever is doing it. But we are outta state right now with society's mental health where it is the most fragile.

Speaker 2 (00:23:23):

I believe it has been in a very long time. And when you handle it and just give access to everything, it's, it's a matter of time man, before somebody does it and it's not gonna go well, I would like to think optimistically because I, I, I genuinely err on the, the side of optimism for most things. I really, really do same. Yeah. I know you do. And I, I love your show. I follow you. Yeah. Hope like, and really like driving forward because I think your message not only resonates, but it's so necessary. That's why I had you on it's your story matters the way you talk matters and you talk with integrity. And so people value what you have to say. So keeping that in mind when something like this comes to you for an opportunity, I'm glad you put the breaks on for a second to really sit and look at this because as much as it might be great, it gives everybody access, which is ultimately the goal access to healing, healing, healing. I don't know that this is the right way. I'm scared. I'm I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm nervous about that. Cuz people can get into that K hole and sometimes they can't get out of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and what do you do if you can't get out of it? Who do you call? You may not call anyone. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you may, you may harm yourself. You may harm someone else and you may be doing it when you're out of your mind. You

Speaker 1 (00:24:40):

Literally don't know what to do, cuz you've literally never experienced something like this. Right. Your brain it's ineffable

Speaker 2 (00:24:46):

And you don't know how you're going respond. Right. Yeah. And that's the other thing, if you don't know how you're gonna respond, there's an issue there.

Speaker 1 (00:24:53):

Um, so much to unpack in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:24:57):

I wanna bring it back a couple things. I think you drove home a really unique, important point that maybe a lot of us don't realize happens when we're dealing with mental health, but especially in the veteran community, mm-hmm, <affirmative> maybe I'm speaking for myself or my personal experience, but when it comes time to actually say the medications that I'm on have been on family history, personal history, mental health, physical history, all these things. Um, I've been through experiences with healthcare providers, active duty and in the VA system mm-hmm <affirmative> where a, I just don't really feel safe for whatever reason. I don't. I get some kind of red flags mm-hmm <affirmative> don't share this about this. But then also my active duty time was if you say certain things

Speaker 2 (00:25:47):

It's over.

Speaker 1 (00:25:48):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:25:49):

Mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (00:25:50):

<affirmative> potentially, you know, but that was a very real potential goodbye promotion. Um, goodbye. This opportunity, that opportunity just, you know, whatever the rumor, the rumor mill is gonna run

Speaker 2 (00:26:00):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Speaker 1 (00:26:01):

How can, in your opinion, veterans, if the, the goal here, the mission is become more aware of your mental health take necessary steps to make that a priority and to get the treatment you need and deserve. How can we actually push past that fear of not sharing things cuz we think they're gonna hurt us or maybe we've been burned in the past mm-hmm <affirmative> to know that it's safe and that we're in a healing process.

Speaker 2 (00:26:26):

I think that's gonna take time. I think the military is trying, I think, um, again, airing on the side of optimism. Um, I think they're trying, uh, they're trying a lot of things though. They're trying to accommodate for a lot of people. They're trying to put people in positions that maybe they have no reason to be in. They're really trying here to get that woke train, to move in there for the military and, and that's fine. I, you know, what grade more inclusivity do it, but at what point is it a detriment? So when you pull that back and you look at things like going to your superior officers and saying, look, this happened to me or I'm struggling with X or Y you've seen what happens all the way up to recent years when a woman comes forward and says I've been assaulted. Yeah. Good luck being promoted. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so they say, no, it's a safe space to talk about it. You feel it's not. Um, when I, for example, when I was overseas and I, they started seeing symptoms, really big symptoms in me pretty quick after that operation, um, it was very hesitant to tell them what I was going through. Symptoms

Speaker 1 (00:27:29):

Of. Would you mind

Speaker 2 (00:27:30):

Sharing? Uh, yeah, I got med. I got medically released from the, from the military due to posttraumatic stress disorder. So from operation so that that's just, I've had that where it's like, they tell you you're safe, but you're not. Um, you're now a liability. And so in my opinion, I always say reach out to people who are outside the system first, um, consult with them on how

Speaker 1 (00:27:52):

CISM, meaning

Speaker 2 (00:27:53):

Civilians. Yeah. Civilians. So if you're in the military and you're starting to have symptoms obviously, or what I would like to think is that your superior officers are gonna have be paying in a little bit of attention. They're gonna see some behavioral changes most of the time. That's true. Um, but having the conversation with somebody outside the system first to see, I think is a safe spot, uh, because they have no, they have no reason to go to them. As long as you're not threatening your own life or someone else's then you know, that's different. But if you're like, Hey, I'm, I'm struggling with nightmares. I'm for some reason I just get really triggered when I hear something and I just don't feel right about it. Yeah. I'm feeling a little uneasy, uneasy. I personally recommend to go to a civilian first and

Speaker 1 (00:28:32):

It's a totally separate medical record

Speaker 2 (00:28:33):

As well. Uhhuh <affirmative>. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:28:34):

Which be aware of

Speaker 2 (00:28:36):

<laugh>. Yeah, but that's it. And so I always say go there. If, if that's not an option, then you have no choice, but to run this up the poll and I get that, but you can also walk into your medic's office without going your superiors and say, not feeling so hot. Can we talk about these things? And then then a different conversation can be had. I would, like I said, I would like to think that people are getting better and progressing and I think they are, for the most part, they really are, but you're always gonna have the old boys. You're always gonna have it. No matter what, when I walked into my artillery unit, there was a real old dude who was like at Deb on neck, she's running again. Like, but seriously. But then you had the guys who were still old boys, but understand, adapt or die.

Speaker 2 (00:29:20):

So the mentality changes that being said, I know how it was handled when I was in. And that was in 2009. It's been a long time. I would like to think they've gotten better, but I'm also very well in touch with the individuals I served with in the Canadian military. And I do know for a fact that there were people that were women were, there was an issue. They did report it. He was the golden child of the regimen and nothing happened to him. So it I'd say go to your superiors, you still have to be aware there's a chance it will affect your career. It, I just believe that

Speaker 1 (00:29:57):

I, I, I, that was actually a really good point. I didn't think about first or at least a good amount of the time. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> go to a civilian side of things. Um, cause I think that we worry about that, especially if you're in for your first term or you're gonna be career mm-hmm, <affirmative> like we, we know the importance and we know how we stay connected to everything we do. I mean, everything at the end gets, at least in the American forces gets consolidated down to your DD two 14 mm-hmm <affirmative> like literally one sheet of paper. Yep. That will identify you, mark you label you, help you succeed or fail really. Yep. When you step out of those gates again. Um, but for me, that kind of brings up a, another aspect I wanted to unpack and that's the integration. And I think what we're talking about there could be looked at as a form of integration.

Speaker 1 (00:30:43):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> because it's the work before the work mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's the, the aspect of awareness we need to have of just, I keep saying prioritizing this, but just, you know, we go to sick call because we get shin splints or stress fracture or whatever, but you know, how can we have this level of awareness to go to I'm feeling just inexplicably down and weird. Can I go to like mental health, sick bay, sick call mm-hmm <affirmative> um, for me that's integration. It's like the work before the work. And then should you choose to go into some kind of deep intensive therapy or psychedelic modality? Mm-hmm <affirmative> people like what you're talking about, sitters guides and then after someone to pour this out to a trusted resource, a confin on a therapist, um, these are all the integration components that, uh, I'm talking about here just for the listener. Um, how do you define integration? How important is it, do you think, and is that really gonna be kind of the saving grace for people to have a positive experience with this and not get burned again in another form of their healthcare?

Speaker 2 (00:31:44):

You know, I think one of the, the greatest things that has come out of the psychedelic movement and the Afghan war for us is certain individuals have really taken this seriously and realized that the VA is not going to solve this problem for us, that we have to solve it from within the community. So you have people like heroic carts project with Jesse Gould. You've got vet solutions with Marcus Capone and Amber Capone, uh, seal team sex door breacher, just massive hu huge human. When I hug him, I look like a small pocket person. It's real sad. <laugh> um, but you've got people doing you've uh, you've got some people you've got, uh, who's down in Texas. I believe I'll find out the name and let you know a man, uh, by Johnny that goes and does that it's um, things like that from healing, different healing modalities, but you have got people within the community that are having active duty individuals come up to them and say, I can't go to a doctor.

Speaker 2 (00:32:38):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> I can't, I'm too high up. I'm a first Sergeant. I'm a, this I'm a that. Um, and they go to these people and they say, look, this is what the deal is. This is where I'm struggling. And then they go, we either think we can help you. Or we can't. The next step then is to go in my opinion, outside of the chain to get some support, if you're really concerned, I think integrating mental health treatments and healing modalities is gonna ultimately have to be on you. Mm-hmm <affirmative> no one is gonna come and save you and no one is gonna do it for you. And we have to take responsibility for our own healing. And sometimes we're not in the position to realize that we're still at the beginning stages and that's okay. Oh yeah. Often it's the people around you. That'll start to notice it and they'll bring it up to you.

Speaker 2 (00:33:26):

So when it comes to starting the process, uh, you know, like I said, go up the chain. If you have to go to a civilian, if necessary, be very conscious of, you know, what your job is. I've had, um, F 18 pilots who got grounded because they said, Hey, just not feeling so hot here with my brain and they're grounded and then they never fly again. So you really do have to watch where you go and that's okay. But there are so many resources now in the veteran community that you can call and reach out to that are not within the system that can really, really, truly help advise you. Wow. Yeah. And so when you, that would be my first and then once you kind of realize, or you have that conversation, you see, Hey, I'm going through this, then we can start going.

Speaker 2 (00:34:12):

Okay, well maybe, maybe psychedelics. Aren't the thing for you. Maybe we really do need to look at a pharmaceutical intervention. Sure. Yeah. And that's fine. I was on 10 different pharmaceutical drugs for 10 years. Um, not by choice. Just did what my doctor said, got to a point. And I said, this just isn't working. I can't live like this. I can't have a baby like this. I can't function like this. This isn't a reality. And then what I realized is a lot of times people just stay on the meds. Mm-hmm <affirmative> stay on the meds and they just keep going, but they never really stop and reassess where they're at or, or do a, a good scan of the body or wake up in the morning and go, okay, I'm groggy every day. Do I like being groggy? Well maybe, maybe I maybe let's look at this.

Speaker 2 (00:34:54):

Maybe let's see, Hey, have I integrated enough physical fitness, you know, four times more effective than antidepressant have I stopped eating bullshit? And now I'm drinking water all the time. Like maybe, maybe I have this conversation with my doctor where I don't need this medication anymore. And you reassess the problem is, is we, our vets get put on all these meds and there's never really a huge reassess point. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, if there were most people wouldn't be on, as many of they have been on for the, you know, the duration that they have. Um, whether, again, that's a failure of the system, uh, lack of responsibility or lack of understanding of how their bodies work and how they should be feeling again. I've had a pilot, one of the pilots I had on, he said I was on these meds and I kept going and saying, I don't feel right. I'm feeling worse. And they said, no, no, try this one with it. Then they tried this one with it. He goes, I don't wanna take these anymore, man. This isn't working.

Speaker 1 (00:35:42):

So that was me for like six months on narcotics. Uh, and how they finally listened to me what really got them to listen. Yeah. Was literally one day, uh, they induced a seizure. Yeah. Uh, knocked myself unconscious, give myself a traumatic brain injury. Fantastic. And they're like, okay, um, let's switch up your medication.

Speaker 2 (00:36:00):

Yeah. Completely preventable. Thanks. <laugh> completely

Speaker 1 (00:36:03):

Five, five months in narcotics.

Speaker 2 (00:36:05):

Yeah. Completely preventable. The problem is we do a real, real poor job. And by we, I mean our governments do a real poor job of allowing pharmaceutical companies to come in and overmedicate, and over-prescribe, they've done that with every injury from like the beginning of like the existence mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and they've done that, especially over the past 20 or war, because they didn't know how to handle this. They didn't understand traumatic brain injury. They didn't understand PTSD, PTSD. They didn't understand long term effects. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely not. Cuz if they did, we would've figured out world war II and Vietnam and Korea and all these other amazing veterans who drank themselves into supers because the stuff they were doing was just not working. Yeah. So integration really does have to be looked at in a very, um, careful way that being said, once you figure out kind of what you think is going on, there are tons of resources outta the military that will answer and help you.

Speaker 2 (00:37:03):

And they are serious about what they do. And they do not mess around if somebody's struggling, they're on top of it and they take accountability and it's like, I've said to them, like, it's nice to see that it's gonna take people within the community. That's fine. But at least we have people within the community that wanna take responsibility and ownership because they don't want their friends to continue to die. We now are starting to understand that PTs and TBI show very similar symptoms. And I've heard this conversation several times with defenders of freedom, which is down in Texas, they deal with TBIs. They put people through treatments down in Capel, Texas with the resiliency brain center with doc G. Um, I know there's wave neuro. I know there's a lot of different places that are love. Wave neuro. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited. Cause it looks like I'm gonna be hopefully talking to them soon. Um,

Speaker 1 (00:37:51):

Uh, Dr. Eric won and uh, oh, the former Navy seal commander, right? Oh my God. I'm having a brain part. It's

Speaker 2 (00:37:57):

Okay. It's okay. Uh, yeah. Yeah. But that's my point is like, there are people working on this doc G in Texas, I went through the treatment with them through defenders of freedom and I've had this conversation and they're like, it is insane. We have ed vets come in. I think the top out that they've had 37 meds, what at no point should a human being beyond 37 medications, he came in in a wheelchair. Jesus. He couldn't walk. So my point is we need to start looking and we are, the community is starting to look at mental health in a serious way. That is no longer going pharmaceutical base. Don't get me wrong. There is a time for pharmaceutical intervention, but it's not every time, but it's being used every time. It

Speaker 1 (00:38:38):

Shouldn't be the first line of defense. No first line of anything. Really?

Speaker 2 (00:38:42):

No. Yeah, absolutely. And not all the time. No. And the other thing is we, like I said, it comes down to personal responsibility and the integration is the thing that isn't being really discussed because everybody wants to jump on the psychedelic train of healing and how do I promote it? And what's the next favorite thing? Like, shut up. You're doing it wrong. And you're being dangerous because there, nobody wants to say no, they know seriously.

Speaker 1 (00:39:04):

No, I, I laughed. I'm just thinking of so many examples.

Speaker 2 (00:39:06):

Exactly. Yeah. This isn't me just being like jaded. This is the reality. And, but nobody wants to sit down and say, look, some psychedelics can be real dangerous for individuals. Some people don't tell them the truth about the medications they're on SSRIs. If you go into an iowaska ceremony can cause serotonin reuptake syndrome, which can crack someone's brain and you're not coming back from that. And so when you start diving into putting a substance into your body, it's okay to talk about the other side of it. It's not gonna harm it. It's going to give legitimacy to the fact that these are real strong, useful healing modalities that need to be looked at in a serious manner. And they are not a cure. They are the catalyst point that allow you to heal. They are the tool, the work begins after the ceremonies happen.

Speaker 1 (00:39:54):

They help open the door in so many ways. Yes. But how you walk through, should you choose to walk through? Yeah. And what awaits on the other side of that is totally up to you

Speaker 2 (00:40:04):

And the people that I've I've I've worked with and I've participated with. And I, and I, I have no issue talking about vet solutions in hero, in hero carts. I've been through the program with hero carts. Personally. I've seen their integration. I've seen the integration coaches you get afterwards. I've seen the work that happens afterwards. The community that builds from that, and these guys are at the forefront for a reason, both of these two are taking it by storm. They're changing laws. They are changing the way people look at healing. When you have an army ranger and a decorated seal, come in and say, look, they're freight trains. I was struggling with this, this and this people are gonna respect them for that. Because at no point, did you ever expect to see one of these guys come out and say, I'm having nightmares. I'm not feeling well. I'm not doing well. That does not happen. But now it's happening. And it's almost giving permission to all these other guys that are like, oh, I'm a big bro in the community. And I'm like this, like not like don't, don't go out there and preach leadership and mental health and accountability. And then on the other hand, talk outta your mouth. Like you, like, you have an understanding of people's serious trauma, cuz some of you don't

Speaker 1 (00:41:20):

So important,

Speaker 2 (00:41:21):

You have to have a responsibility. And so when you're talking to individuals like, like Jesse or, or Marcus and Amber, they're serious about this, you need to do the work after this. Isn't a cure. They don't didn't do the work before. Yeah. Like the dieta you need to be eating properly before. And one of the things you see is you've got so many people coming into these and you ask them their diet and oh my God, I don't, I don't know if it's it's it can't just be an American thing. But my God it's gotta be close. But the, the type of food, the amount of sodas. So just a tangent for a moment in, with brass and unity, we have mental health Monday. Okay. We do it every Monday. We go live. We talk to people and we've created a community called B in U army.

Speaker 2 (00:42:02):

It's on signal obviously. Yeah. People all over the world that go and talk. There's people in there who are on, they drink nine to 12 sodas a day, but that's been their whole life because they either haven't known any different. They've never understood how to eat properly. They were never taught to eat properly. They weren't taught about physical fitness. They weren't, they just weren't taught. And so in no fault of their own, they've been fed this stuff. Their whole lives. They've dealt with a lot of dis uh, dysregulation, emotional issues. And then if you couple that with somebody who's hit their head or you couple that with somebody who's been through serious trauma. Now you're looking at frontal lobe issues, dysregulation in terms of your temperature, your mood, your sleep. And you're wondering why you feel like a bag of shit half the time. It's what we physically put into our bodies.

Speaker 2 (00:42:49):

That's gonna make the difference. But people don't look at diet and exercise the way that they should. It can cure a lot. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that can be the start point. And that's often where we start and say, it's very simple. When I I'm like a broken record on the lives. It's very simple. I don't care if you had to just get up. If, if you only got up that day and you walked to the fridge one time tomorrow, I want you to get up and I want you to walk to the bathroom two times. Then the next day I want you to get up and I want you to walk to your front door. Then I want you to get outside. And I want you to walk a quarter of a kilometer or MI mile.

Speaker 1 (00:43:25):

Thanks us Americans,

Speaker 2 (00:43:27):

Us Americans. Yeah, but my point is small steps. Everybody wants to help people. When they're at the point of like, come do my fitness things, come do this, come do that. Most people right now, especially are struggling just to get outta bed and brush their teeth. I was that vet, but we don't, that's a gap we're trying to fill. We're trying to get you to be able to just walk, just move your damn meaning where you

Speaker 1 (00:43:52):

Are. Like how, how much of a foreign concept is that?

Speaker 2 (00:43:56):

It is though, because Instagram and social media has made people believe that they start out at a certain point mm-hmm <affirmative> and we've done a really bad job of not saying it's okay to just have a hard day, but get outta bed and make your bed that day. And that could be the biggest accomplishment for you. That was mine. When I first started days, I didn't brush my teeth or get outta bed. Cause I couldn't. But then there was days that I could, and then I would push it a little further, push it a little further and you build on those things. So taking it back integration and things like this, they can can take time. They have to be met with where you're at. You have to be willing to do the work. And it is so much work. And anybody who tells you it isn't is lying to your face. It's not an easy journey and it

Speaker 1 (00:44:41):

Never ends

Speaker 2 (00:44:41):

And it never ever ends. But you, in my opinion, you're worth it and you deserve it. So why not try? What's the worst that's gonna happen. If you try, you might sweat. Oh shit. <laugh> or you better watch out.

Speaker 1 (00:44:57):

Might get uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (00:44:58):

Oh, you might get uncomfortable. But that's what happens. We get comfortable in these spaces. We get super comfortable in these spaces and when people get comfortable, it is the death of all creativity and innovation. It is the death of progression. It is the death of healing. Get uncomfortable. When you learn to be comfortable in the uncomfortable you are going to thrive in ways that you did not know were possible.

Speaker 1 (00:45:21):

Mic drop right there. Um, first of all, you're incredible. Um,

Speaker 2 (00:45:25):

Thanks. I'm

Speaker 1 (00:45:26):

Okay. Thank you. Um, and just as I was listening to you talk and drive home these points, I was reminding myself that this is more than just points and facts and information. It's you sharing very openly and candidly your experience and your journey mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that for me has been the best, the most like well received and honestly the most frequent and unique type of feedback I've ever gotten on my platforms from internet people, real life people,

Speaker 2 (00:45:58):

Internet people, internet people, if they're like,

Speaker 1 (00:46:01):

They're just like little blockchain,

Speaker 2 (00:46:02):

They're little beep mirror,

Speaker 1 (00:46:03):

Little digits. Yeah. Um, but like, it's, it's so much more than that. And I'm trying to say here is like, you're sharing your story, your experience. I'm sharing my story, my experience mm-hmm <affirmative> um, I personally really tried to drive home. This is not like even when I was really like health and fitness chase, you know, I was a clinical health coach mm-hmm <affirmative> and just, I never, ever, ever promoted or latched on and said, this is the diet. This is the workout. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the same thing I am doing now is like, this is the healing modality. All I am trying to do is just share my human experience of the ups and the downs. What is great? What is not, and what works for me, because that I think is what we need to do most is commit to the work, commit to ourselves for ourselves mm-hmm <affirmative>. But especially for other people suffering with mental health, significant issues, or even just not prioritizing it. And again, the veteran community, like you need to be your own champion because we need other champions to do this kind of thing. Correct. We need people to just speak up and it's hard to speak up when maybe you're not on the other side of it. Like it's harder to speak up. I think when I'm really suffering.

Speaker 2 (00:47:14):

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (00:47:15):

Versus guys, I fucking killed it. This is great. Like here's the good news. How do you, do you have a process? Do you have a thought process about this is how I'm gonna share this kind of information in hopes of me continuing to heal, but also being the champion for somebody that I don't even know, maybe exists that is gonna need to hear this information the most today.

Speaker 2 (00:47:37):

I don't think that I <laugh> sounds really bad. I don't have a path or a plan. I go with what I feel, but I go with what I've experienced and I don't look at it as in like, oh, I went through this and now I'm gonna talk about it in this way. And I'm gonna make sure I advocate in this way. I am. Oh, I probably should. But I don't, I it's not that I don't think it through, but I'm, I'm that person who is, I'm just, I word vomit, the truth your're

Speaker 1 (00:48:09):

Present. Like mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you're not attaching to an, for an outcome. You're just, here's who I am. Here's what I'm thinking feeling.

Speaker 2 (00:48:15):

Yeah. Sorry if you don't like it, move on. Yeah. Turn the channel off. I don't care. The thing is, is I didn't set out to do this. I don't think any of us set out to do any of what we're doing, at least for, for I'm speaking for people who are podcasting or are vets or like, I really did think I had a full-time career in the army and I was fine with that. And I, and I loved that. And I think

Speaker 1 (00:48:36):

I enlisted in, in like my plan was 20 years. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:48:39):

Yeah. Yeah. So that's not, we're like, we're gonna be playing you through you. Like, it's not sorry. That's not real bad. But so then my

Speaker 1 (00:48:46):

Head it's probably me. It's 17. That be a podcast

Speaker 2 (00:48:48):

I'm gonna like, I'm gonna be like a podcaster. I'm gonna like, see how it goes. No, I didn't plan it. So for me, it's always been very simple. I still struggle a lot. Um, but I show the struggle. I talk about the struggle. Um, I believe I've, I've crossed a barrier point. Of course. Uh, don't get me wrong a hundred percent, but I, that really didn't happen for me until just, just under two years ago when I started using psychedelics, I, I had hit

Speaker 1 (00:49:16):

My same timeline, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:49:18):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. I, I hit a plateau point and I remember saying to my treatment doctor, like, listen, doc, Passy like this, it's not getting better. Like it's not getting better, man. And, um, mommy was having more hard days crying on the stairs and she probably should be. And that's a hard one for me because thankfully my son was, is young enough that I'm hopeful. He won't remember all of mommy crying on the stairs or mommy not being able to get outta bed or mommy being more angry than she should. And those are things I'll always look back on and God, I wish I would've done better. But at the end of the day I was, I was struggling and we're pretty open with my son about that. Where we say, look, mommy's having a heart today. Mommy's heart feels a little heavy, but because we've done that with him, he communicates about his emotions. Like it's going outta style.

Speaker 1 (00:50:03):

I was just gonna say, I wonder if he's reciprocating

Speaker 2 (00:50:06):

Incredibly that's wild. It's beautiful. Wow. Um, so, so when I started using psychedelics, that's when the shift changed, um, perceptions changed. Reality's changed, uh, like my friend Griff says you can't unsee. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you just can't unsee it now. So now it's the repo. What do you do with that? Right? There's no going back. No, there's

Speaker 1 (00:50:25):

No, there's no unknown.

Speaker 2 (00:50:26):

<laugh> no, there's not. And sometimes I wish there was, but there isn't. And so, so yeah, so for me, I, I, I don't plan it out. I, I probably should. I, I talk from the heart and I'm, I'm hopeful and optimistic that people see that all that I am trying to do is give people access to information so that they can hopefully then take it on their own and run with it. That being said, once I hit that point of like, okay, I feel like I can advocate for something because it really has made the change for me. It took a long time because people are like, don't be the veteran on the soapbox talking about psychedelics ly, Waka, but I will be, cause it saved my life. It's one of the things, one of the major things that really was a turning point for me.

Speaker 2 (00:51:06):

So I, I never tried. It's not what I thought I would end up doing. I'm not out here saying do this. It's gonna work. Do that. It's gonna work. I'm pretty damn open that it doesn't work for some things. It doesn't work for some people, but moving forward, what I'm trying to do, isn't be a doctor or scientist, or do any of this. I'm a person with a microphone that says, Hey, today really sucked. You know why it sucked? Let me tell you why it sucked. And I, you know, why I think it sucked is cuz maybe I was on social media too much. Maybe I caught something I shouldn't have this affected me because of this. And I'm able now to step outside of it and say I was affected because of X and then it turned into Y and now I have this result.

Speaker 2 (00:51:43):

So then how do I go back and go, okay, maybe that isn't good for me. I can see, I can see that maybe that triggers me or makes me feel some type of way. Maybe we cut that down a little bit. Maybe we just cut that down a little bit. And then I get on the mic and I'm like, Hey. So I saw this story one day and I didn't think it would bother me. And then I had a nightmare that night and it, it was one that was so aggressive and so intense. I haven't had something like that. So now I know that's not for me. I need a break from that, but I'm honest about it and it's not a linear journey too. And I think that's what people kind of forget is there's this idea where mental health and healing is this like, oh my God, I feel so great today. And tomorrow's gonna be amazing next day. And then I love the next day. It doesn't work that way. It's not

Speaker 1 (00:52:24):

Always a step up a step up a step up it it's it's up, down, down, down,

Speaker 2 (00:52:29):

Down, down, down,

Speaker 1 (00:52:30):

Up. Not, not up or not down. This reminds me of this. So I'm derailing myself. This crystally

Speaker 2 (00:52:35):

Split. Oh, I love crystal.

Speaker 1 (00:52:37):

He's he's like up, down, up, down, down. Not up. <laugh> it's just he's it's talk about like the, the rollercoaster that he's a healing journey

Speaker 2 (00:52:46):

Sidebar so glad he's back.

Speaker 1 (00:52:48):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:52:49):

God, I love him so much. I, my I'm getting tangent for a second. I think, you know this I, one of my favorite things ski, I think he ever does. Um, I don't remember, but he basically does when he does the Russians and he is like, listen, I'm a Russian

Speaker 3 (00:53:02):

Chin down for, fuck you, cuz fuck you. But chin, chin down for friends and family only, but for fuck

Speaker 2 (00:53:09):

You. And I love that clip so much. And I do it to my husband. He's insane. He's insane. But his whole body is mimicry on the stage. I feel, I feel bond with him from afar because I never know what to do with my hands. I'm over, up, up here, but I'm like if I could only be a comedian comedian, I feel like I could lunge and people would accept my weird, my weird mannerisms. But my, my point is is it's not linear. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it's not always going to be that way. And I'll be honest, I'm in that right now. Mm I'm. In one of those points where everything looks like amazing on the out song, but I'm struggling with some stuff right now, man. I'm struggling with some real stuff right now. Some serious stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:53:46):

Oh, well let me, let me pause you right there and ask, why does it look amazing on the outside? Is that a conscious choice? And like, okay, I have enough, I have enough awareness and mental, emotional strength right now to put forth the, not the front, but like to put forth this version to me that needs to be there for saving face for being a mom, for being a business owner for all these things. And I, I know like I'm kind of like in this delicate dance with myself and I can handle that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> or are you just kind of like, is it slipping into like old patterns, old habits of just like, I can't let the world see this version of me right now.

Speaker 2 (00:54:21):

No, I've always let the world see the version. I don't care. They can see the bad, the good, the ugly doesn't I've got no shame in who I am got no shame in when I struggle. I'll I'll sit there and be like, I don't care. I don't care because people were honest and open with me and it, and it, it gave me permission or whatever you will to be like, I can be like that. And if people don't like it change the channel. If you want somebody who's gonna be out there and being like, oh my God. So today, like I went to like Starbucks and like my coffee, wasn't hot in it. Like shut your mouth. I saw that

Speaker 1 (00:54:53):

Real.

Speaker 2 (00:54:53):

I think. Yeah, exactly. My point is I'm not gonna go up and do stuff like that, but I'm only gonna talk about it when it's like, listen, this is a real thing. I'll talk about it. It's not that I need to say face first social media over my business. I've always been open about it with my business. I've always been open it with social media. There is an aspect for my son that I do show him when I'm struggling, but he's also a child. And what's that one thing I learned from Dr. Phil when I was a child was you don't put adult problems on small human minds because they don't have the capacity to understand. And what he thinks of me cuz he's five is mommy was an army man period.

Speaker 1 (00:55:32):

Interesting.

Speaker 2 (00:55:32):

That's all you know,

Speaker 1 (00:55:33):

Was he born when you were active?

Speaker 2 (00:55:35):

Oh God, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I got out, I got medically released in 2011. He was 2006. Okay. So my point is, is like, it's not for anybody else. It's not for social media. It's not for anything, but it's, there's also, I do believe. And I think maybe I'm curious to see what you think of this, but there is an aspect though of people come to you for a reason. Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> there's so there's a, there is a delicate line with that. There's a line where you can be super vulnerable, but not everybody needs to know your deep dark problems. So there is that balance. Do you ever feel any of those pressures with you and what you do

Speaker 1 (00:56:16):

In terms of

Speaker 2 (00:56:18):

Little,

Speaker 1 (00:56:18):

Is someone gonna come to me for this and I'm not gonna be mm-hmm <affirmative> prepared to respond. Yeah. It's a good question. Um, I will say kind of like looking backwards with that question in mind now on some instances I think I have had some people approach me. Talk to me in person DM email about these things, to where I am very cautious. Um, yes. In making clear that I'm glad that you're hearing what I wanted to convey in terms of this was my pain point. This is my struggle. This is what I did. Why and how mm-hmm <affirmative> and the effects that I'm having. Yeah. Um, but I never wanted to be like, oh yeah, like you should just do it kind of thing. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so I I've definitely tried to like tread lightly with those, but um, in, in unique cases like me sharing a psychedelic experience, mm-hmm <affirmative> where just hell even like a breath work class, like any just like really unique, uncommon modality to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (00:57:22):

Um, but this is where honestly, and, and this type of work, uh, and, and particularly psychedelics have really helped me look back on my life and be very, very grateful for the experiences that I had that have made me more capable right here. And now mm-hmm, <affirmative> what I mean by that. I mean, in, uh, a hero's dose, well, technically I've only worked up the like four grams, but almost there we'll get you there. Like in that experience, like soldier chase really brought me back many, many times. Okay. And like cracking open and like many, many instances. I remember like literally like telling myself, like lock it up, lock it up. Like my soldier, like literally like as I, as if I'm my own drill started talking myself, mm-hmm <affirmative> that brought me back. Um, my experience after the military and getting education formal, higher education and becoming a health professional for many years has made me more capable to answer questions like this about, Hey, let's learn a little bit more about your medical history.

Speaker 1 (00:58:31):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> Hey, what's going on in your nutrition, all these things. Um, and it's so cool now that I can look back and be grateful in a really unique way of everything that I was like, this served me, or like, I don't know why this was there. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it has now made me more capable to answer such questions like this and has also given, given me greater appreciation for the things that I'm there to work on through the trauma, through the PTSD, through the death, through the loss, through the friends committing suicide. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> all these things that like the trauma and the thing, like the things that I thought hurt me and the things that I was doing to better myself equally serve me and making me more capable now to express that and to hopefully connect to somebody else asking about it. Makes sense. Yeah. It makes complete sense.

Speaker 2 (00:59:21):

That's the beautiful thing about getting to a certain point of feeling? Mm. I almost feel like, uh, we do our ourselves a disservice if we don't share how we got there.

Speaker 1 (00:59:33):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:59:35):

I think others really do for whatever reason, social media, we we've done a number on our society with it, but it's also a tool that can be used for the good mm-hmm <affirmative>. And there has been plenty of times where I've had a hard day and I've just been scrolling. And I found like, just, but by chance something came up and it was like this saying, or it was this thing and whatever, for whatever reason, it just hit at the right moment at the right time. So social media has a positive if it's used correctly. Um, I really do believe we owe it to our community, whether it's the bets, the first responders or whomever, people struggle with getting out of these things and they need to see that it's possible. They need to see it from six foot, four dudes. They need to see it from barely five foot people. They need to see it from men. They need to see it from women. They need to see it from everyone. They need to know that they can connect with something within their story or them that allows them to see that there's hope

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):

Because until you heal mm-hmm <affirmative> other people don't know that it's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):

Well, that's

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):

It. And so the brain can literally see the other side mm-hmm <affirmative> of the coin, the, the healing on the other side of the fence, whatever, like, we don't know it's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):

Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):

So

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):

We don't know what we don't know, you

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):

Know, to everybody

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):

Else. Yeah. We don't know what we don't know. And with platforms like that, I mean, now more than ever, we have access to information. So why wouldn't you be sharing the positives of it? Why wouldn't you be sharing the ups and downs of it that could just help one person, if that helps one person I'll walk through fire for that again, because I got no issue with, with trolls and online and all that, blah, blah, blah, that comes with trying to do this work. Because inevitably, if you're trying to do something big, nobody doing more than you will ever say something and put you down. Nobody, it's always the people that are doing less than you, because they're either envious or they're like, their life is so easy, but they only see the end result. They never see the come up. They never see the sleepless nights. They never see the we're gonna lose everything or they never see the, I have to sell this to keep this, to pay whom and that they don't see that they see the end result. And so if you are honest enough about your journey, it gives people almost the permission. Mm-hmm <affirmative> to go and try. And when they may never have given themselves the permission, otherwise

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):

It makes you think it makes you think about, you know, I'm just connecting so many dots as you explain this again, things that like I know, but just when you hear somebody else say it out loud again, it's just like, wow. Like connect all the dots of people that have been that for me, the people that tell me I'm them, I'm that for them? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and now they're gonna be that for somebody else. Correct. Um, it's just, it's wild. It's the kind of wildfire that I'm trying to spread.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):

Yeah. I'm, I'm addicted to progression and I'm addicted to, um, hard work and I'm addicted to putting myself through hell. For some reason, it makes me feel alive. Again. I, I feel, I feel like I'm doing the work I should be doing, even though it's difficult. Even though it's hard, even though the government has made it nearly impossible for Canadians to keep business running. Uh, even though, you know, the laws have changed over censorship, even though we're banned, even though I'm loud, even though I'm aggressive, even though I'm in people's faces, I don't give a fuck. If I upset you. If I have put my sights on you to either have you on the show to either, um, wanna partner with you to either want to help you to get you moving, to get you walking. If I put you in my sights, you better run.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):

<laugh> because I get every single one of you to the point where it could be a guess to some of the guy's perfect example. He'll have no issue with me talking about this. The B U mental health. We started mental health Monday. Okay. We started up, we started getting some people on and then I've had people from the very get, go from Australia. I have this individual every single day, since we started it, I get a screenshot of how far he's walked. Now he's running now. He's signed up for five Ks pictures of the beach. Every day. I will show you after this. He is consistent. Put the progression and here it is. It's not me doing it. I gave a group to have a safe conversation. And I don't mean like it's like on faith basis. I mean, I like, there's been times where a child has gone missing and been found dead.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):

And we talk about it in this group, cuz it's somebody's family member. We talk about real things. We talk about serious things, but we're there for each other. And if you talk shit even one time, you're gone bounce. I don't have time for negativity or people who are not going to help uplift others. So I'm fine. I'll I'll go through hell. I'll I'll take the whatever, because I know that I got one person who wasn't moving, who wasn't looking after themselves to be walking eight kilometers a day every day, every single morning and feeling amazing. I got one, one. That's all I need. I just needed one. So I got one and then we got another one. Then we got another one. And then we got another one. Now we have this group where there's people from everywhere in the world, just being like, what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):

How are you doing in Italy? Well, we're getting forcibly vaccinated. What about you? Things are on lockdown. Our family member went missing. Well, we found her passed away. She's a child. We're having these conversations, but we're giving people a space to go. These things suck in life and it's really hard, but it's okay because tomorrow's gonna be another day. I'm gonna move forward. I'm gonna do the things I know that's gonna help make my life better. Like that individual I said was on like, uh, nine to 12 Cokes a day. Coca-Cola <laugh> um, thanks for clarifying. Yeah. Right. You never know anymore. Um, he's down to I think three. Wow. Wow. But that is a win man. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's a huge win. That means that they're thinking about what they're putting in their body. And when they think about it, then their kids are gonna think about it and then their spouse is gonna think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):

And then maybe their cousin's gonna think about it and their friend's gonna think about it. And that shit spreads like wildfire. When you come from a pure heart with intent, with love and only want for people to be better to heal and to, and to not suffer, the world is hard enough. Why do we think we need to keep imposing more on others? My favorite thing ever is when somebody of affluence or, or social media presence, who I believe has a real responsibility, gets onto somebody else's platform and talks shit in their comments. And I sit there and I go, God, that's gross. Does that feel good? I, I had this with, um, I had kid Carson on recently. And um, do you know about kid Carson in Canada? No. He's a, a radio host that has been a radio host for, I I know of him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):

Oh yeah. Kid. I know if there was like something new, he got publicly fired. Um, oh, because in February when he was on the air, he was just questioning. He's like guys, like, cuz Canada's not good about our rights right now. Uh, 10% of Canada can't leave the country unless you're, if you're not vaccinated, you do not have the right to get on a bus, a train or a plane within the country or leave. We're the only citizens in the world that cannot leave their country freely without papers. No one knows that, but we are. Um, and we're also the only country in the world that is forcing five year olds and above to be vaccinated or they cannot get an education. Um, so he just said very, very quietly. I'm I'm a little concerned about the digital ID and the VAs passports. Cause we have VA, I have to show a QR code.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):

Right? Um, real con I'm just a little concerned. And I think this is something we need to be paying attention to and they fired him on the spot. And so kid came on recently, you were talking about it and he had an, he had a situation happen where he posted, um, it was a, it was a story and it was, this was right when your Roe versus Wade popped off, the leak popped off. Okay. Believe, do whatever you want. I don't care. Um, and he posts and he goes, it's nice to see my body, my choices back in fashion and somebody that has a massive following and this perfect life in this like outward, perfect life, had the nerve to go on there and say, oh no, a man did not say that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):

And we talked about it on the episode and we got into who it was, we got into it all. And I said, very simply, does that feel good? Does that, when you woke up in that morning and you said that, does it feel good? Did you put something positive out into the world? Is that something that you can be proud of? Is that something you can go to bed knowing I did something good today because I really believe just be 1% better than the day you were before. And the world will be a better place. But when you go out and you actively try to defam someone harm someone, come down on them or just really be a shitty person, cuz you are having a bad day and then you have the nerve to take how you feel because that's really all it is, right?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's a percept. That's how the person really feels about themselves. And you have the nerve to go out and do that. I think it's gross. And I think it's disgusting. And I think that person's gross and I think you have a responsibility when you have a platform. And so when people go out and actively put negative energy or feelings or words into the world, those are the people that need to sit and look in the mirror and go, what about me is not healed that I feel like it's a right it's I did the right thing by making that comment. Who did that help? Who did that help? Oh no, a man didn't please. Every human being. I'm sorry, miss. I fought for your right. Just like you did for you to say that. So go ahead and say it, but I want you to know it makes you look like a real shitty human being and that's okay too, as long as you can live with it. But I can't live with that. I couldn't live with that. I couldn't live with knowing that I said something that hurt somebody or started something unnecessarily words matter. And when people have affluence and influence in anything you wanna on a platform and you act like that, you don't deserve a platform. You don't, you just don't the world doesn't need to be harder than it is. Stop making it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):

It's hard enough. It's uh, it's hard enough for a myriad of reasons, but it's, you know, it's hard enough. Um, just for, just for people to really take inventory. Mm-hmm <affirmative> of what really is hard. What actually is hard. Mm-hmm <affirmative> what is perceived hard? How am I navigating it? Just, I mean, you get bombarded all the time with so much real shit, so much bullshit. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like that's I think I know it can't be contributing to our ability to have a level of awareness that we need to our all facets of our health, all facets of our being, but damn sure. Our mental and emotional state mm-hmm <affirmative> um, like there's, there's just so much noise and grossness,

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):

But if you're gonna, if you're gonna have a platform, I just, I just want people to understand, like if you're somebody out there who's got, you know, like millions of followers and you've got whatever amount of talks or whatever. There's people listening to that who base their life decisions around that, who base what they do on a daily basis around that? Who base, how they treat others around that? Wouldn't you wanna be a voice for good mm-hmm <affirmative> wouldn't you wanna be a voice of a positivity and, and just movement forward to heal. You think so? Well you would think, but then again, that's that's the other thing you have to, you'll have to look at the other side of the coin, right? And go, what is that person struggling with? You have to, you have to meet them where they're at with empathy. Cause I think so quick, we are to be dismissive of people when they're, when they act like that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):

But then you gotta pull it back and go. Why? Why do I think that person did that? What are they struggling with and go, Hey, doing all right. I had a situation happen in a parking lot. Um, I was on the phone with my social media, uh, my social media girl and we were on FaceTime and I had pulled, I backed my car into something and I have no idea what happened, but this lady got outta her car and pulled in front of me and she just went nuts. She goes just you and I looked at Nikki and I went and said, why just said what's happening. <laugh> and she goes, I dunno, are you okay? And I said, I

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):

Dunno, did you hit her or

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):

Something? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I, I still to this day don't happen, but it progressed so much so that I, I backed away and I just got back in my car or whatever and I'm like, I'm not gonna do. And then she pulls around behind me, gets outta my car and slams and she goes, you're gonna listen to me. Oh, says, I said, I gotta call you back. I'm gonna call the cops. So, and when you shut the door of a Tesla, it records

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):

Really?

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):

Yeah. It's got century mode. All the cameras start recording. Oh shit. Yeah. So what I did is Elon's killing him, man. Ellan ELs. So he's uh, she's doing this. So she starts, so I just get on the phone with the cops. Cause I'm not messing around. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I'm not doing this. We're not having this. So at first I'm on the phone. She goes, what do you need police. She, okay, it's transferring. As she trans I said, listen, miss. She goes, she was following me. So I just kept backing up and backing around the car, just avoiding a confrontation. Mm-hmm um, and she goes, oh, you were outside the view. I was now I got outside the vehicle and I'm just kind of backing around it and she's just losing it. And I said, are you okay? She, she was very put off. I said, do you need a hug? And she just looked at me and I said, because the way you're acting right now, you're going through something, are you okay? And she didn not know what to do with that. And then she just kept coming at me. And so I knew at that point there was nothing I could say. Well,

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):

I mean, think about what she was yelling at first. She was like, you're gonna listen to me. Hello? Who in your life is not listening to you? And this is the giant, you know, tip of the iceberg.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. So when she heard I was on the phone with the RCMP, she stopped and she, she drove away and they got the plate and they said, do you want us to go talk to her? And I said, I don't want you to go get her in trouble. And he was like, I'm sorry. I said, I want you to go make sure she's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):

A, a follow up,

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):

Just make sure a human being follow up a human being. Like, are you good? There's something going on that we need to know about that set you off that way, because that's not a normal reaction. That's a disproportionate reaction to somebody scaring you or going. So my point is, is we are all going through something, whether you see it or not, whether you see it or not, we're all in something. And it can be all different types of levels. It's not that difficult just to be kind and meet people with empathy. Just try, it takes a little more effort, but that little bit of effort can really help somebody. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):

And for me, that's one of my most favorite things about really prioritizing my mental and emotional health the last few years is, uh, the fact that I'm more on my path now mm-hmm <affirmative>, but it helps me have a higher sense of awareness to other people where they are and

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):

Their right

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):

To deescalate situations like that. And to just like, that's the end goal? Like, I don't want a conflict. I don't wanna fight. I don't want an argument. I don't want any of the bullshit. I just want like, be on my way and you to be on yours in a positive light. Right. It's like the whole other aspect of, of this work. That is so cool. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so you can have these experiences. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):

Yeah. And I think people just honestly don't know how to approach someone when they're struggling. I think that's the other thing, right? Is people are uneducated

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):

Probably only approach it on how we used to approach it. Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):

<laugh> yeah. Or in conflict

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):

In conflict, but also because maybe they were never taught as a child. Maybe they only had a house that screamed. Maybe they were never taught to communicate. Maybe communication was done through violence maybe, and that's no fault of the person, but as you get older, we have too much access to information to keep acting like a shitty human being. And if you don't wanna take responsibility, then don't put yourself in society. It's that simple. When you walk into a room, you have an energy about you, whether you realize it, whether you wanna be like, I don't believe in that energy bullshit. Okay, cool. Don't you do you science has it. That's cool. We can see it. You have a little force field around the body and when it is anxiety and everyone else around you feels that especially children, especially children, and when parents are like, my child is acting up and I can't get them to listen. It's like, do you hear the way you're talking? Cuz I was like that. And then I went and did TBI treatment and turned my frontal Lobo again and started to be able to regulate and go, was it really a big deal that he didn't put his toys away? No, I'm teaching him responsibility for sure. But maybe he was just tired. Maybe he's having a day and meet him where he is. And I gotta tell you it has changed the way my husband and myself and son and I so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean the heart emits, I think electromagnetic wave about three feet radiating from you. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and so, I mean like you enter the room long before you actually enter the

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):

Correct, correct? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):

Yeah. Um, well Kelsey, this has been so great. Um, thank you so much for coming in mm-hmm <affirmative> thank you so much for cracking open here and just sharing so much of, uh, what you're experiencing and I appreciate your insight and everything that we were talking about and sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):

Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm more than happy to be here. I, uh, I'm glad to help. And just on a side note, brass and unity, we are a jewelry and sunglass company and all of that and we do help our veterans and first responders. Um, yeah, we're gonna, we've got a code for you guys it's uh, ever forward 35. Um, thank you. You're so welcome. But what I'm getting at is even though that's what I do and we have the podcast and all those things, if you're struggling with something, reach out to us, we will help get you support to me. Yeah, yeah. To you as well. DMS email, asset info at brass, you, it doesn't matter. We will get you some help if we can't get it for you, we'll guide you in the right directions. Cause at the end of the day, what I do daily, what you do daily is to better others' lives. So just reach out. There's no harm. There's no shame. There's no nothing. The only person you're hurting, you are bleeding on someone else when you don't deal with your own problems and the people around you, they're the ones that have to suffer the consequences. So just try, reach out. What's the worst that could happen. Your life could just get easier.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):

Just try. Um, it can be boiled all down to that. Yeah. In so many ways, which I wanna ask my final question to move forward in life, to just try something one day, the next day, the next day to move forward ever forward. What does that mean to you? How, how do you interpret those two words?

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):

It means that I wake up and I wake up with a mission and a passion in mind and it means that every minute of every second of every day, I am doing something to help someone else because just as much as it's helping someone else, it's helping me. So as long as I am waking up, I'm putting out a positive message, positive energy, trying my best. And I'm 1% better than I was yesterday. That's what it means to move forward.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):

Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):

Thanks for having me

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):

For more information on everything you just heard. Make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwardradio.com.