EFR 576: The Relationship Between Alcohol and Sleep, the Role of Intuition in Your Wellness, and Why You Are a Self-Study with Dr. Will Cole

timestamps are reflective of the interview time, not the episode in its entirety

00:00.00 chasechewning Dr Will welcome to Ever Forward Radio. It's a pleasure to have you here man. Thank you. 00:02.80 Will Thanks man I'm excited to to talk with you. It's been a long time coming but it's official now we're here we're here we're talking. 00:09.41 chasechewning Ah, you know I was kind of expecting I See your hoodie game is strong and I pretty pretty much live in mine too. So I was expecting you to pop up the same. Yeah. 00:15.95 Will Man I'm sorry for letting you down I let myself down today. Get the h and m flannel but you know um I have a hoodie I have a hoodie everywhere. So yeah that they're fun. The pandemic really took my hoodie game to the next level. It's like and then I got to the point where it's. Like that point of the pancemic where you're like okay I need to give the hoodies a break I'm feeling like it's just like too much and so I had to like diversify it up a little bit but still my foundation. 00:44.44 chasechewning You know is that is that a concept for you when it comes to taking care of yourself your your health. It's kind of holistic approach. You have is being comfortable quite literally in your own skin and and introducing a level of comfort to your day to to better take care of yourself and. 00:58.92 Will Yeah, it definitely is and it it is like this juxtaposition maybe of like well how could a doctor wear a hoodie you know and it's tele-health right? So I've been to tele-health for 12 years so I didn't need the pandemic to to make it that for me like I was always. Comfortable with being virtual and talking to people to me that I always were hoodies when I would would be consulting patients or whatever. It's not just what he just like I want to be comfortable on all levels and feel like like I'm of service to these people and I have to hold space for these people specifically with my job. And I can't be thinking about stuff that really doesn't matter at the end of the day like I want to be in ah comfortable on many levels to be able to do what matters which is figuring out what's going on with a health problem to hold space for them to hear them to do my job and to me whether it's a hoodie or something else. Like ah, that's peripheral so might as well be comfortable while I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. 02:02.71 chasechewning I couldn't agree more and you know coming from I'm an east coast guy myself we were just talking about before we hit record and that's got to be I think 1 of the biggest things that I've noticed going from from that way of life to west coast living is it's this you know you could you could look like you. Got an outfit that costs twenty dollars but in reality it costs you maybe two thousand dollars and this level of immediate kind of respect. There's no judgment that I've experienced anywhere here you know I can walk into Starbucks I can walk into Cartier I can walk into nike's store and it doesn't matter what is on the outside There's just this immediate. Respect and immediate hey you are a person I recognize you are here on a comfortable level and I'm just gonna meet you there that I think is such an important factor to our wellbeing that honestly I don't know if people really are taken home like your comfort factor matters right? you. 02:42.47 Will Um. 02:50.73 Will Absolutely yeah, it's like and it could be closed. It could be something else like like people that aren that are listening to this and not seeing this like I'm in this room for eleven hours a day so like for me I want to bring things that are like centering to me and calming to me and ah in alignment with what I need to do so for me, it's like. Bring plans in like that I have huge cacti in my off I have essential oil diffusing I have like this iced tea this black organic ice tea that I love so I think that we need to make our spaces whether that's a home or work or ever like do what we can, but. Whatever is reasonable for me. This is all reasonable stuff to me if I might to be here for eleven hours a day I wanna be enjoying it and so many people it's this arduous restrictive. Ah like just miserable existence I don't I don't want to look like that. But these are simple things we're talking about a nineteen ninety nine dollars hoodie h and m and. And we're talking about objective and a diffuser. It's all all pretty realistic stuff to to integrate into my life but you know it brings me peace and joy and I like the simple things in that way. 03:56.18 chasechewning And you bring up a really good point here when it comes to our health and our wellness especially the way that you approach and I think we're very similar here in a very holistic manner and a very quite literally everything matters just to a varying degree. Um, it doesn't take a whole lot sometimes to. Just be a drop in the bucket that is the ripple of Monumental change. So from your kind of functional Medicine holistic lens. Can you give us can you give it a listener. What are some of the most common things. Maybe that people sleep on that. Can have dramatic effects in their wellness that compound basically over time and don't take a whole lot and. 04:33.29 Will Yeah I think it's we need to look at the at the little things right? because I I mean most of the patients that I talk to are very well-versed people. They know the basics right? They know way more than the basics and. They're still spinning their wheels. They're better off most of the time they're better off than they would be if they weren't so conscious about health and wellness and taking care of themselves and living in that way but they're not where they want to be so I have a feeling that's probably most of your listeners and I really want to implore them. To look at the nooks and crannies of their life that they're holding onto that they sometimes they don't want to go there because they're like ah it's not that big of a deal. It's it's it's not that much of a needle mover because really it's they don't want to give it up and they know intuitively deeply that this could be an issue. But they don't want to explore if it's an issue or not because they're not ready to let it go so for me I see this time and time again where it's like that when we go there and we go to the place. They're not that that they are holding onto that's when we move past the plateau that's we make a paradigm shift for their health. Not just physically but mentally emotionally and spiritually as well. So like something that comes to mind is alcohol I think that people will sleep on it because they don't want to go there that they they think well, it's just ah, it's just a little bit of drink like I'm not an alcoholic and I think well first of all, people's relationship with alcohol exists on a spectrum. They may be functioning but if you're needing that alcohol to wind down or socialize with your friends or in that relationship and that whole relationship circle around alcohol. Are you having fun or dealing with your anxiety alcohol is a part of your life I find that that's somewhere that they so people sleep on. Willingly sleep on because they don't want to really want to go there. So I think that you know this year and years to come I really want people to to look at the things that they're not ready to go and go there. Let this be the year that you go there and say is this really serving me is this really It may not be a massive. You know huge problem. But if you if it's a if it takes you to your next level moves you past your plateau man I see people. It's a bad tradeoff to go back once you move past that plateau because you feel so great that you you love feeling great more than you thought you missed that thing whether that's alcohol or something else. But really I feel like that's a conversation that needs to be had. It's a neurotoxin and it is definitely I have a issue with it being normalized within the health and wellness community as like this thing right? It's like we eat super clean. We're having all the organic sprouted. 07:22.84 Will Grass-fed whatever but we drink consistently and I want people to have the freedom to do whatever the heck they want to do if they want to drink let them drink but I still if they're coming to me and saying I don't feel good. What's going on. We have to have a tough conversation about the things that aren't working for you that aren't in alignment with your goals. And I think that alcohol definitely should be to be talked about and that's why I recommend like a low alcohol the meaning the least offensive if you're going to drink have a low alcohol organic biodynamic regenerative wine or some you know something like that and I you know support companies that are at least providing alternatives. Like drive farm wines I think the curates wines that fit that criteria not that I think wine is a health food I don't but I have to be pragmatic sometime and say well you know if they're going to have something like this. Let's ah let what's the least offensive to their physiology. So I think that's 1 and I think looking at sleep is another massive 1 too. It's like we people like say I'll sleep when I'm dead or like they stay up too late. They're on their phones and technology. It's like they have to really look at the quality of sleep and like track it. So maybe consider getting a tracking app like Oura ring where they really can. Learn and like be their own and 1 experiment and say where's my deep sleep. Where's my rem sleep. But what's what's my quality of my sleep. Not just the quantity but the quality of my sleep. Those are 2 I mean that's a like a bad play on words here. He say like what do people sleep on but that I didn't plan that I did not plan on that. 08:51.66 chasechewning Ah, they're sleeping on this sleeve. Yeah yeah. 08:56.20 Will But sleep and alcohol are 2 things that I think people sleep on because they just don't want to go there. They don't want to prioritize these things because they're like almost so fundamental and like so much like we know that's important that they don't give the respect. They don't get the respect they deserve. And I think that we need to look at those things within the health and wellness community and having this conversation. 09:15.63 chasechewning And to your point there the 2 really do go hand in hand I have been amazed over the years as I've become just more aware paying attention to my body you use the word intuitive earlier and I would love to dive deeper there in a second on on your definition of that how we can apply it. But in terms of just how I feel. Qualitative state biofeedback and then I'm ah um, a whoop user here and I use that for monitoring my data such as sleep I have been blown away at the little cues. The little things that I can do that push the needle so incredibly far on my sleep. And to the other side of alcohol when I have even just a glass of wine a beer or even you know a couple but even just with 1 I can see a measurable quantitative dip in my sleep health in terms of sleep quantity and sleep quality. So if you could please now that we've kind of. Brought up these 2 elements that people are again sleeping on how do they kind of work against each other how by maybe overusing or not being aware of our alcohol consumption. We're actually harming our sleep and vice versa. There. 10:20.91 Will Yeah, so I again I Want people to have a nuanced grace filled relationship with both of these topics right? I don't want to come from a place of like oh shaming you into like behavior modification but I do want you to have a mindful. Introspective like reckoning with are these serving you or sabotaging you and avoiding things that make you feel like crap isn't restrictive. It's it's self-respect. So That's the paradigm shift I'm coming at this with and that's the same paradigm shift that I come up with with food too is using these like. Going for things that make you feel good. What's in alignment with your goals and that goes back to just having a why. That's big enough that consumes all this junk. That's like out of alignment with it like what? What do? How do you want to feel how do you want to live and and are there alternatives that are pragmatic. Compromises where it's not a complete abandonment of your goals like like I mentioned like a little alcohol wine in small amounts Occasionally so what alcohol is doing I mean as I mentioned alcohol is a is a neurotoxins if you're just looking at that active like. Ingredient if you will within alcoholic drink. The alcohol itself is a neurotoxin so it's putting a lot of stress on the body depending on how much you're drinking and your tolerance to alcohol too depending on what else you have going on some people just have but not a tolerance to it. At all's they're already having detoxification impairments. They're already having Inflammatory problems. They're already having gut problems and it's like stressing an already stressed out system. It's not even necessarily that the alcohol's causing all the problems but it's like really yeah, exactly is exacerbating the whole issue. So. 11:59.78 chasechewning It's like throwing salt in the wound. 12:05.38 Will It's stressing the liver out stressing your gut out stressing your brain out that's in ah in short, what it's doing and if your cup or buckets already overflowing. It's just gonna be adding to that problem now when you deal with all the other things that I deal with with patients like work on their gut health working on lowering inflammation working on. Stress and and trauma and all of these things that empties that bucket pretty significantly. So maybe if they do have that occasional drink they can handle some stress and the human race is here because it could handle some stress so I'm not saying you have to be victorian you peritanical tea totalers about alcohol but we should look at. As a humanity. We're already overflowing we already have had our tipping point with the amount of autoimmune conditions and inflammatory problems and mental health brain health issues that it's like this is not working for us. We don't have the wiggle room that our great grand grandparents had. We're exposed to a lot of junk and it's just too much and what's the junk we can control. And this is 1 of them so we can have some agency over cleaning our lives up and realizing we don't have necessarily the resilience that humans had a few generations ago because the amount of epigenetic stressors that we have this is just 1 of them. It's 1 of many of them. But I think the insult that it has alcohol has on our brain our gut and our detoxification system. You know, specifically the liver is great and it's too much so you're absolutely right I can't tell you how many patients were we're tracking this data whether it's a whoop you mentioned or an oura ring. Or some sort of other being a biohacking you know, tracking app we can see heart rate variability hrv being impacted from just small amounts of but 1 glass or their rem sleep tank or their deep sleep tank from just 1 drink and this. Is going on repeatedly multiple times a week for at infinitum like for people for years of people's lives and this plays a cumulative toll on their their health and how they feel and then they wonder why they're fatigued and have brain fog and have digestive problems and how weight loss resistance and these issues. It's because you're really adding to that overflow of that bucket by these little microstresors like we think what's just a drink here or just a drink there just as the drink there. It's like all of these things add up and we need to start going to the like I said the jokeoks and crannies of our life that were like it's it's it's not like we're somewhere I don't want to deal with this right now. But sometimes we have to deal with these things because it's a cumulative effect that that can really when you cut it out for a while or indefinitely you really can elevate your health to such a powerful powerful thing. So yeah, they're connected sleep and alcohol for short connected. 14:43.75 chasechewning And um, maybe not to go too far down a rabbit hole here with the whole biohacking and wearable aspect. But I'm a believer and I've used health technology and wearables in some way shape or form for hell probably like pushing 8 years I mean it was the 1 thing that I would use the most. You know before being ah you know running ever ford radio I was a clinical health coach and I would work hand to hand with patients in the clinic working with their doctors and it was really this this other tool that allowed me to stay tethered to them and honestly for them to stay tethered to themselves once they walked out of my office. And the the other 6 days of the week or 29 days of the month or however long was going to be before they came back in to see me what was going on in that interim and I think this is where I would love to get your opinion when it comes to a wearable when it comes to biohacking getting any kind of quantitative data on yourself. I believe that there is this mindset of I'm not that person. It's all or nothing I'm not trying to like you know hack the system but my argument is it gives us just enough information to allow us to make a more educated and empowered decision even in the smallest way. I track my Apple health my Apple watch my whoop but it's not driving or dictating my life. It provides a screenshot quite literally of where I am it's the dashboard on the car right? And if I see a light as green yellow or red it drives my awareness. How would you describe the best way for people to kind of if they're interested in using a wearable so that it doesn't consume them am I on the right path here. 16:16.23 Will Yeah, hundred percent and that's always a balancing act that I and a conversation that I have with with patients is that even that term biohacking I use it. It's the best way to to really describe that community and culture and where these. Tech things come from but I don't think of it as a hack in the most literal sense I use it as an awareness tool an educational tool like you said a snapshot because we love labs in functional medicine. So I'll run the blood labs I'll look at the data from a diagnostic standpoint these are real life. Mini report cards where you can track over time or you're not pulling the blood like we're doing. You know every six months or so we are able to really say on a day to day basis. What are some objective what some objective objective data points to track over time. So i. Feel like the context of these things matter I do feel like some people and not necessarily with Oura ring per se or wope or any 1 but I'm saying sometimes with these bio hacked wearable devices. They can be a source of stress for some people and I don't. That's the antithesis of why they should be used. So I think that how I use how some people use them, especially I like something comes to mind is like a diet tracking app like if you're measuring macros and you're looking at food sensitivities and ah like a food tracking of art. What foods are causing what symptoms and how do you optimize food as nutrition, right? and food as medicine I find that that could be long term for many people like just this arduous thing and it kind of takes the fun and lightness out of eating but I still am an advocate for them for a time for you to introspectively. Be your own end of 1 experiment and use it as a mindfulness or awareness tool and educate yourself on how food fuels your body and the same applies to these sleeping is like check in with your body wear it for a couple weeks and months oftentimes I feel like at the beginning it may be a bit a bit clunky if someone's not used to that. But then it becomes their second nature and it's not a source of stress. But even if if it is then wear it for a time then take it off I feel like and then pick it back up and check back in. Maybe when you're having a tough time and you want to get the data back in again and wear it for another maybe 30 days to check back in and and some. Wearables even recommend that like I think of levels so that the continuous glucose monitor that's direct to consumerer like ah under this Umbrella oh sweet and that's what they recommend. They recommend these cycles check in when you want to learn more about your body get curious about it. 18:43.99 chasechewning I got 1 on right here. Yeah I'm on my fourth cycle of the year yeah 18:55.30 Will So you can use the whoop or the oura ring or any 1 of these things out there for a time to do like a thirty day experiment per se and then drop it if you want keep it simple I like keeping it simple with these things but for me like my oura ring isn't adding to my stress I actually it helps me be more mindful. About these things cause I know if I have caffeine too late in the evening. It's gonna throw off my sleep score and it's not like I want to do the thing that like improves my score so I can feel better the next day. So for me, it's just keeping me more conscious of the decisions that I make and how it impacts my physiology. Um, so that's what I would say if it's causing you stress or anxiety or shame or orthorexia which is like a disordered eating around healthy foods then drop it. It's not worth it. Your your mental health and your emotional state's more important than these things. But if you have the vessel to contain this information. Then pick it up and use it for good. Not not for another source of shame though. 19:54.11 chasechewning When do you see being an nequal of 1 a study of 1 when do you see it kind of straddling the fence of becoming or thinking that you're too self-educated and maybe manipulating or trying to manipulate variables when we should be you know. Coming to someone like you or sharing this information with someone like yourself. How do we kind of balance that. 20:16.89 Will Yeah I mean it's you mentioned most of my patients are that is that community right? They're extremely well read. They know more than most conventional doctors do about health like I'm not seeing the basic case. It's extremely rare I should say most of the time ninety nine point nine nine they're. So on top like the point 1 percent of awareness and knowledge and they know the research they know all the podcasts. They know all the books and they're again, better off than most people in many ways but they're still struggling and they're looking to optimize or I see a massive amount of people. Have very very severe autoimmune conditions that despite all their best efforts they haven't got a handle on this better off than they would be but not where they need to be so for me I see people in the community circling around us in functional medicine and they know it's just like a timing thing. They want to see if they can do it on their own. Um, but it's just like a timing thing of like okay I've exhausted all the things I know how to do and sometimes it's tough to be the person. That's the patient or the client and to be the 1 lead in your own health charge. You know it's 1 thing to be an advocate for yourself. It's another thing to be informed I think that's great. But it's hard to be always objective and then you end up, you know, micromanaging and and stressing about this stuff like it's not good for your health. So sometimes it's good and actually really smart for smart people to say I need someone outside of myself a clinician a you know, a. Doctor or a coach or something like that. Just say what do I need to do so it's not like this like for me I mean at least for my patients. It's never like this ego thing where like who's the smartest 1 in the room like you can have all the smartness I don't care but it's like how they want to be helped. I want to help them. We're cool. Let's like let's do this together and it's this collaborative thing where we can get them feeling better. 22:11.30 chasechewning I have an interesting story to share with you that when you were talking just a second ago about people that are seemingly trying all the things right? and there's just something that's not clicking something that's not working or at least not as much. Long story short I went down to this really cool kind of neurology center called wave neuro a couple weeks ago and had this amazing brain health scan done and it just reads Beta alpha theta delta and it kind of gives you an interpretation. It gives you the interpretation of how individually they're operating and overall how your brain is operating and. I've never had a brain health scan I've done body composition analysis I've done functional medicine I've done labs but I've never had something like that and so much of the feedback that I got it broke down. Basically this is probably your sleep quality. This is probably the things in your diet your nutritional components. This is probably a lot of things. And my my range was about was like a eighty five point something and in my head I was like I'm not suffering from anything you know, knock on wood. Thank god I don't have any chronic illness or disease. But of all the things that I am doing to run optimally and efficiently as possible I was like damn. I'm only at a eighty five which is good I shouldn't say only but it made me think what could I then do to get to an 86 or what is even an eighty six percent brain health look like is a 1 percent jump monumental or could I go to Ninety so I guess my question here is for those of us that are. Like your clientele like your community and people listening to ever ford radio. They're there right? We're running optimally and smoothly but then maybe we run some of these tests and we're like wow I've got some room for improvement. How do we go from good to great or great to greater. 23:52.23 Will Yeah, um I wish I saw more patients that were in the I am really good to greater. Um, what I normally see is anywhere from I'm good with most areas of my life but there's a few areas that are really creeping in my quality of life. And I know intuitively or and just know and intellectually as well like people may not notice it. But I notice it in my life and it's definitely impacting how I want to feel to the severe autoimmune issue that they just are spinning their wheels and no matter what they do. They can't get their head up above water. So I wish I saw more good to great. I see it from time to time but normally it's it's yeah they are the biohacker. They know a lot but they're really struggling with certain areas in their life that they need someone else to like another pair of eyes to to deal with this. Um, so this is a common question that I actually get as people say. They'll get the labs back and they'll say well how many people are like all optimal like wouldn't you find problems? Yeah, exactly they want to know how but if you ran labs on everybody. 24:56.91 chasechewning Yeah, like where do I rank kind of thing I'm I'm hearing that I'm good doc but how do I compare to others. Still. 25:08.60 Will Wouldn't you find problems everywhere and this is what I get that asked that question and I would say I'd say this cause I see the people that are feeling great and they they just oftentimes what they are as their spouses is that the sp the sp they'll say I want my partner. Get labs. They're not really going anything I just want them to go along the journey with me but their partners not really going through anything I get to see through partners and spouses what optimal can look like or more or less optimal asymptomatic. The person's feeling good. They're both like like ah they're biohacking couple. And the ones feeling fine their labs more or less look optimal and by optimal I mean the institute for functional medicines optimal range I'm not looking at brain scans per se but I know what you're talking about. But I'm talking about blood labs microbiome labs toxicity inflammation labs hormonal labs. This type of stuff. Immunological labs all lining up optimal like there may be a few tweaking nutrient deficiencies light that we have to deal with but more or less I do not see the cascade of issues or the pattern of issues from a biomarker standpoint that need to be addressed. So I have enough. Ah, data like data over my 12 years of doing this and thousands of labs to know if someone feels great and they know in their body they more or less just want to double check everything make sure they're not missing anything. There might be some so for some fringe of fluctuations but more or less you could be in the optimal zone because the optimal zone. For most biomarkers is it still a span of numbers meaning there's nuance and fluctuations depending on the day because these labs are all snapshots in time but more or less you're gonna govern within that you're gonna reside within that range the optimal zone. It's the people that know something's off if we're running the right labs. We're looking at the stones so to speak that are most likely to have something underneath it. We're gonna find something it may not be exactly what you think it's gonna be which is why we're running the labs to get the answers but we're gonna find things to to optimize so something specifically about that brain scan like I would say if the doctor that's looking at this. They could use our clinical experience to say look you're better than most people but look It's not easy. It's not hard to say that in our culture right? I mean just I mean chronic health problems are so ubiquitous. It's like all right I don't want to be average I want to be optimal. 27:23.42 chasechewning Um, yeah you say? Yeah yeah. 27:31.95 Will And that's what the functional range is too. It's looking at optimal not just average the the statistical like that reference range you get from these conventional labs are art largely just averages the people who go to labs which are not the healthiest group of people So I'm looking at it through the lens of optimal where does your body function The best and that's the functional range. So. I Don't know if that answers your question, but. 27:50.21 chasechewning No, it does it does and it brings up something I want to circle back to you've brought up several times how we feel the feeling of the person intuition and I think that is 1 of the most overlooked concepts or principles of our health. We. I think we've gotten a lot better as a society and you know people I think in both of our communities here are much more aware much more educated and empowered than even you know five ten years ago but there is never going to be a better insight or better coach than yourself. You have this direct. Divine connection to yourself. So how then do you help people develop the sense of intuition or help them crack it open even more so that they have this even more direct source to themselves and. 28:39.30 Will Yeah I honestly think to me like that's the core of what I do if I had to really look at like the heart of what I do in functional medicine it's that it's learning the art I mean that's part of the reason why I call my podcast the art of being well it's because it's this duality of the science and art of what I do in functional medicine the art of it is applying the science in a way that works for them sustainably and learning the rhythm that can't always be quantified on a lab but utilizing the labs and utilizing the wearables or utilizing clinical experience for a time. But ultimately that like I said that own and of 1 what's your own and a 1 experiment making you making your life the lab that's really the art of ah of wellness. So to me, it's this beautiful paradigm shift that starts off sometimes clunky because you have this guy and his team. Looking at labs designing a protocol for you curating on this stuff clinically monitoring you coaching you guiding you being relentless sometimes in the pursuit of what we know you're possible adjusting it as we need to because again we can see responsively like using life as a lab. How do we evolve this protocol over time like what tools within the toolbox work for you. But then there's this paradigm shift that shifts from all right. It's this thing that I'm being told to do to oh I'm feeling good I'm feeling great I'm feeling to the next level and then it's not about us telling them what to do or what not to do they love feeling great more than they then they don't need someone to tell them. They just know intuitively this is what my body loves this is what my body hates avoiding the stuff that my body doesn't life like is like it's common sense. It's like a bad tradeoff to to go towards something that dims the light that you've built for yourself. So it's cool, but you have to see it through and that tipping point. That paradigm shift takes time for some people sometimes it happens pretty early on sometimes it happens further down the road but to really build this this like another way that I say is like wellness is a sacred art and and you are the masterpiece That's how I see this as there's like this like molding. This pot is this beautiful masterpiece that takes time. But once you build it and and mold it into something beautiful. You have your center and it's kind of like it's such an intuitive thing that people don't I want to get to the point where I see patients like once a year if that. And it's basically to like run basic checkup labs and like see pictures of their kids and their dogs and their grandkids. It's like that's where I want to get I want to become basically obsolete if I'm doing my job because there's hundreds of other millions of people to help get to that point where you're at now. 31:28.44 chasechewning Through the lens of functional medicine here. We are now 2022 what do you feel should be on the radar of most people most human beings going into this next year 31:40.26 Will Um, I would say that I would say the 2 things that we talked about I I won't belabor them again. But I really feel like this is. Is the year well more and more people like we heard it for the past few years like in the community of ah wellness. We've heard like sober curious and people like having like this experience experience because it's come to just a head like it's just the culture is in many ways sick and they're self-medicating with things that are. Perpetuating their sickness and there's just like a deep unhappiness and a deep like mental emotional spirit mental emotional spiritual disease and a physical disease going on in our culture that they're using these things to numb themselves and to just distract themselves. Alcohol technology is part of that. But I think that beyond that I think we need what I the other thing that people need to be looking at is the powerful impact that stress and shame has on their health too. And something that I've been talking about over the past 2 plus years publicly the past 10 years with patients but like really looking at this um, bidirectional relationship relationship between thoughts and emotions and our physiology because you know stress and shame and this type of like negativity. On a mental emotional level will impact. Ah their inflammation levels their gut health and their hormones just as much as that food. That's gonna be inflammatory and it's a lot more It's ah easier to say don't like these foods x y and z will raise inflammation and mess your gut ups they like don't have them right? Then you just take them out right? but. 33:13.95 chasechewning Damn right. 33:26.67 Will It's a lot more nebulous to say how do you tell someone to stop shaming themselves or stop stressing about thing then they stress about not stressing and it's like it doesn't work like that. It's a lot the the work and I don't even like using the word the term work but the awareness mindfulness muscle. That needs to be flexed takes time but I think really cultivating acts of stillness in our very noisy world is paramount. So like the simple things and most of the stuff's completely free but like getting out in nature and like utilizing the science. Around you know shinran yoku or forest bathing and using nature as a meditation I think has to be part of our humanity moving forward where our divorcing our us being divorced from nature is a major part of why we're having all the problems that we're seeing. You see what's happening environmentally as far as climate change and all of that Stuff. There's physiological global warming going and going on in the form of chronic inflammation and we're a part of nature and part of that is we are just a reflection a microcosm of what's going on on a larger global level. So I think that that. Forest bathing and meditation and digging into these practices that are within the community. But I think needs to be elevated to the point of the mainstream I think is it can't just be the people on abbottkinney. It can't just be the people it. It can't just be the random person on the inventice beach. 34:57.37 chasechewning It it can't be the people hanging out in Airwa every day. Yeah. 34:58.00 Will Has to be the yeah exactly I love you I love all you people but I but it can't just be this. We hadn't we need the mom in iowa we need like the the dad in Tampa to like be cultivating this stuff too because it's just it's pervasive. And ah and it and it should be democratized and it's and we need to destigmatize these these ah tools. 35:21.63 chasechewning And you make me think there of the other side of the coin here if it's not going to be the people that are already aware or already doing the you know the the self-education whole foods airjun the abykin and if you're here in l a you know what? I'm talking about um but everybody else in middle america everybody else across the world. And so for me that brings up the other side of the coin of the industry now. The people that get it. They're going to get it and they're going to keep putting things out there. But I'm curious in your professional medical opinion where is the industry doing the biggest disservice right now and by industry I mean the food industry the pharmaceutical industry where do you see. If you could have a genie give you a magic wish for for these industries that aren't maybe shining a light like others are what would that look like so that Mary in iowa could could you know have this paradigm shift. 36:10.55 Will I think that the industry's actually done a great job. Might I mean the health and wellness industry if there even is 1 right? I mean I'm talking about because what I love about the health and wellness industry as a whole is that we are independent. People to have a common bond. But we're moving and we're moving corporations is what we've we've done and because we've through podcasts through books through television shows. Even I think of Dr. oz and like you know for all, you know, whatever your opinion is on his show. He took that into indiana and in illinois and the Midwest and the south to like the random lady that's never heard of anything. He's talking about some of this stuff that maybe isn't as deep weird wellness as some of you and I know about but it still got them thinking about some things like fasting keto and healthy fats and stuff I think that's. Awesome! So I think that these independent people brave people that want to have ah this this conversation over the past ten years twelve years is really what I've seen in the past 12 years is being an amazing change that I've seen over the community of podcasts and and information democratizing this information I think it's. Really awesome and then you go to something like well I mean not for the past 2 years but like before the pandemic going to something like expo west right? where it's in anaheim every year at the Anaheim convention center and it's like biggest natural food grocer expo in the world. 37:41.19 chasechewning Love it. 37:43.70 Will You see people from all around the world. Come there right? but you see these massive corporations that are like they're going there cause the dollar's there right? They're going there. There may be some people in the company that really believe in this. But for the most part you can assume they're going there because that yeah it's an opportunity they want to tap into a market. That's not been there but to me, it's like. 37:54.92 chasechewning But usually starts with an opportunity. Yeah. 38:02.96 Will That's still good. It's giving people options as long as the integrity is preserved to me. It's like no matter what the motive is from the up top ceo. It doesn't really matter. It's like what's the consumer are this consumers getting choices and I live in a small rural town in western pennsylvania. Near west virginia ohio like not aotkinny and I can see healthy food at aldie at Costco at Walmart at target I think this is good stuff I would never have seen that 12 years ago here. So to me I think it's awesome that what's what's happening what's unfortunate is now we're at a weird part of society where it seems like there are certain interests that don't want that conversation to be going on in the way that it has been and that's unfortunate because that now that we're making ground now. They're actually improving people's health like i'm. Getting people healthy and the idea that me and my people in the space can't be having this conversation with fear of being censored and shut down when we're just getting people healthy all based off of some. Algorithm and people's opinion is is the unfortunate thing because I think we made some good grounds. So why? just but why we want to stop that. 39:20.57 chasechewning Great answer I really did love that answer and I would agree I think there has been a lot of progress done but just for people further along on the spectrum you know towards the the holistic towards the functional some people might just still feel like it's not enough. It's not enough it needs to be more and we need. We owe it. To ourselves and we owe it to the rest of the world to really stop and turn back and look at even if it has just been us step that is a very very important step because that's the change that we're all after and and it's gonna take a single first step in order for them to to get further along on their journey. 39:54.34 Will Yeah, well said well said I even think of like going to like chipotle you know it's ellen by Mcdonald's right it's like they Melissa urban a friend of mine like she I don't even know if they still have it but they at least tested out that cauliflower rice and they are. 40:12.36 chasechewning Yeah, yeah. 40:13.99 Will Going for better humane versions of meat so they're not like all the Cafo stuff. They're actually going towards ethical standards for like meat to me. It's like okay, that's amazing that basically 1 powerhouse woman could make a massive corporation. Actually consider cauliflower rice and healthier alternatives to things and come up with a whole 30 bowl or a keto bowl like that's freaking amazing So cool like ah to me, let us let us run things. Let us run things don't be afraid of health. 40:40.36 chasechewning You hell? Yeah yeah yeah. 40:50.84 chasechewning Ah, yeah. 40:53.16 Will Don't be afraid of health and that's to me. It's like that's the biggest bigger thing of functional medicine. It's like it doesn't have to be either or it doesn't have to be like us and health and wellness and then like whatever this pharmaceutical corporate world. Let's be both and like let's pick the best of the way I just don't feel like it's. Censorship should be needed I think people can think for themselves. That's the benefit and beauty of free speech and don't be afraid of it. It's like people can think for themselves. That's what this country is founded on and I think that we can continue to have these robust conversations and you can pick if you want to pick the best of conventional medicine. Some people are alive because of medications and we need advancements in science we need advancements in Pharmaceuticals. So let that be but we also can have conversations about other things too and maybe some of it won't hold water. That's okay to evolve and pivot and change your mind and learn and grow and that let. The world decide for itself. 41:52.97 chasechewning And making that decision for ourselves has to be 1 of the most personal choices and can only come when it needs to come and it leads me to my final question here will of the moment for me and I think a lot of people can relate to this when we realize that. Have a lot of dominion over my body over my health physically mentally emotionally spiritually comes from instances or even just 1 major life event where that's taken away and for me I had 2 significant moments that was watching my father die at the age of I was nineteen from a terminal illness and then. Just a couple years later being so severely injured in the military of having to learn how to walk again twice and being so grateful for the ability of the human body when given the right environment and the right attitude and the right conditions it wants to not even. I won't say just being homeostasis. It wants to thrive and that decision first has come from with us and that is what I'm talking about when I say living a life ever for that's the whole meaning of the show here. So I'm curious. How does that fall on you here today? Well what does it mean to you to live a life ever for it. 43:00.74 Will Well I mean I think that that's that's really what I tried to do um every day when I'm consulting patients when I'm with my family with my with my wife and kids it's like how do we. I See the fragility of life because I'm reminded on an hourly basis when I'm consulting patients the fragility of life like things that we all take for granted like going to work or being able to drive or being able to play with your kids or go. On a hike I see that taken away from people all the time and it really keeps you. It keeps me at least very cognizant of like in a bigger state of gratitude and sort of cultivating that gratitude and compassion. Towards people that were kind of doing all the things and it was taken away and we can't We can't control everything in Life. So I really feel like like what you stand for on the conversations you're having is something that I hope we all can start to cultivate more of this like what does that look like to. Be ever forward and look at the small things in life and appreciate them and have compassion for people no matter where they're at on their journey. Um, and I think a part of that that conversation that I really am learning deeper about for on my for myself as well as like looking at the world and. Sort of the toxic tribalism that's going on right now and saying like and like we need to not be so concerned about other people's opinions about us or like what the next person's doing or this fomo-inducing ah content you see on social media. It's like a certain point you need to unplug. Use technology for Good. We're connecting with people around the world right now and that's how I consult Cons Consult patients. That's Good. We don't have to be amish here but the reality is like how can we then I Ski and search to a certain point to live our life. So I think honestly ever forward kind of back to my earlier statement of just connecting with the earth and connecting with the. Your present moment like what's here and root yourself in the present moment moment and something that Eckhar Toli says like he says make friends with with the present moment right? Don't use the present moment as an obstacle or and or means to an end or an enemy but really make friends with it and to me. That's where humanity needs to go and I'm speaking to myself too I think that we need to really find things that root ourselves in the present moment whether that be mindfulness meditation getting out in nature or spending and part of present moment. Awareness is if you're with your kids or with your your loved ones or if you're. 45:48.30 Will Doing your job even the most mundane thing like how can you really be a channel for something beautifully magical in that present moment and like I was I was vacuuming this morning in my office and like making that a meditation. I Don't think it needs to be so massive cool like whatever wellness retreat. It's like I think you could make the most mundane thing. Super fun like what's how awesome it is that we get to live this life and appreciate these. 46:07.30 chasechewning Are you about to do a collab with dyson on a meditation device. Ah. 46:20.62 Will Things that you could just relegate to like unimportant or an obstacle but like make friends with it and um so I don't know to me that that's what what you're talking about really means to me at least. 46:33.10 chasechewning There's never a wrong or right answer. So every interpretation is greatly appreciated and in your own and it really does help help my mission and everybody here listening because I have my reasons for what I do what I do and why I do it but those are my reasons and. 46:46.30 Will Um. 46:48.88 chasechewning You know to hear another interpretation of how I have chosen to view the world helps me view the world beyond my own view if that makes sense. It helps me see it through how I want to see it but not through not through myself and to be connected like you're saying to other people in their interpretation. 46:54.77 Will Um. 47:00.81 Will And. Yeah, it's true. Yeah I think that the more I see like ever forward or even the concept of progressive being progressive and being progressive minded I find like the more we progress if we progress in a healthy Way. We're gonna find we bring a lot of things from the past with us. 47:06.15 chasechewning Um, it's all truth in my opinion. So. 47:21.82 chasechewning Yes, sir. 47:23.83 Will And it but out almost like ah a rebirth a rebirth of it in a more compassionate way and in a healthier way. Um, but like there we've divorced ourselves so much from the planet and I think reconnecting with the planet is the most progressive thing you can do. 47:38.88 chasechewning I amen brother that well it's been a pleasure finally connecting with you here. Thank you so much for your time. We're gonna have all of your information listed for everybody down in the show notes and video notes but real quick if they want to connect right now where they go on where can they go online Instagram where's your big best hangout. 47:43.36 Will Thanks man. 47:53.68 Will Thanks! man. Yeah, so I am everything is at DrWillCole.com. So the links to the books, the podcast all the stuff there. The clinic is all there. Um I'm most active on social media i'm. All and all the channels but I know it's active on Instagram I'm trying tick talk out I'm I'm nineteen eighty 3 kid man I'm like too freaking old for this stuff. But I'm really trying to educate people through that medium as well. But someone has to help me out all right. 48:19.39 chasechewning Ah, and. I I'm with you I'm I'm eighty five myself and even 2 years is still I'm I'm not any better off than you I think so we can join a support group I guess ah awesome.