EFR 517: Crypto Explained and How to 10x Your Financial Health in the Investment World with Joe Percoco

Chase: Um, in a nutshell, what is Titan man? What is what is so interesting that you have just attached your tie to this and you know, flying high? 

Joe: Yeah, great, great question the Titan, we're an active investment management platform and what that means in Simple English, so everyone makes money, and you need to figure out what to do with it. And then one of the biggest things you should be doing with it is investing it so that it can grow. There are only three options for how to do that. One is sort of the make it go away option, okay, so where to get the just, I don't really want to think about it ever again. Let's call that option, why there's amazing products that people your viewers may have heard of which are like ETFs passive indexes, you may have heard of Vanguard, stuff like that. And these passive products are wonderful for that. The second use case, it's a big popular one right now, which is get out of my way. I literally just want to do whatever I want exactly myself, don't talk to me. So that's called brokerage. So you know, there's a company called Robin Hood that you may have heard of where you can trade stocks you’re on it, you have your basket of stocks, and so forth. And then there's a third use case, which is I want to invest my capital, but I want to give it to someone to do it for me. That's called Investment Management. There's usually you give up a fee to a human being because usually an expert in a certain asset class like stocks or bonds, or private equity or venture, and usually that's where most if you have a lot of wealth, you usually pick that option. So I was pretty frustrated. I came from a middle class background in New Jersey that that option didn't really exist for newer generations. There's all this old school Old World Wealth Management and I said all right, Robin, it's crushing it and category two, there's a lot of things in category one. I it's sort of my duty to go to category three. So I that's Titan. 

Chase: Kind of my duty to do category three, there is the mindset of the true entrepreneur. You see something missing in instead of just waiting on somebody else to do it or complain about what's not there, you make it and 

Joe: you got to make your own luck I suppose 

Chase: you brought up something that I think is I'll just kind of go with what's trendy, what's hot right now, right, you know, Robin Hood, this kind of on demand, you know, or similar platforms, you know, on demand something on your phone where we can get access to something that maybe we didn't have access before and is a very familiar process to millennials, Gen Z, you know, all everything that's just going on in the world right now. Like we want it now. We want it fast. And I want to not miss out. Is that the right mindset to have when we're looking at financial health and wellness? Is that the right mindset to have? Is that a safe bet? 

Joe: I guess I can flip this back on you. Let's say you're coaching someone on physical health. And they're like, I want gains right now. And I want to go chug protein shakes and go to a starvation diet and I need it in the next 20 days to lose 20 pounds. Like what would be your response to said person? 

Chase: I would be like, Where's Ashton? This is punk’d? 

Joe: So what's funny is investing is actually really simple. But it's really hard to do. The biggest driver, in my opinion, in the difference between having a good chunk of money in one retirement account versus a massive wealth nest, that will go to another generation is what's called your compound growth rate. And if you just do the math, what it's like, if you earn, let's say you had 100 grand, and you had your bank account, and you were able every year to get, let's say like 7% gains on it every year versus if you could get, let's say 12% gains over a long period of time, you will end up in the second option with depending on the period of time 10x more dollars. So it all comes down to the rate of growth that your money gets each year. And the tie in particular to one's physical health is are you improving X percent each day? And so honestly people that one of the biggest things and that's really hard because human beings we want gratification right now with investing and Warren Buffett or look at any of the investing greats. The core philosophy is like the core scoreboard if you're a baseball fan, I'm a big baseball fan, like what is your batting average, the core batting average number and investing it is called compound growth rate. What an average rate do you grow every year? Because the difference between 12 versus 14 is massive over a long period of time at GLC lots of different jargon terms all point to that amongst the high investing community. And the thing is like the number one thing most people miss is Alright, what was my compound growth rate last year? 

Chase: So then, I guess the question I have next is, what is the magic number? What is the rate goal? initial target number that we should all be shooting for? At least to start. 

Joe: Yeah, it depends. So the I'm going to give first an answer, which is it depends. And second, I'm going to answer directly. So don't worry, there's more. So first, it matters, like one's investing goals. If you are, let's say like my parents who in retirement, the cash tomorrow really matters, they should be super low risk. So they would prefer to trade growing their wealth for just security of what it will be next year and the year following. If you are someone younger, you should say I don't really need this money next year, but I will need it 30 years from now. So what that means is you can actually pursue higher growth rates now even if it means volatility. And to one of the biggest misconceptions people have is they confuse turbulence for the plane itself going down. So most people will turn on CNBC, and they'll see Yo, down 6% in the market. Holy, holy. I don't know if I can curse. 

Chase: Holy shit. Holy fucking shit. 

Joe: they'll go on CNBC. They'll see down 6% Yeah, they'll be like, I need to reevaluate my whole investing strategy. Let me take it out of productive assets called stocks because I'm worried and I'm going to put into cash. What you've just done is probably single handedly ruined your growth rate for that year on a single decision. Why? Because the market will bounce back and you will have missed it. And so okay, now that the market safe again, I'm going to go back in. That is one of the primary reasons why there are these vehicles everyone's invested in in option one called passive ETFs. People can't even keep up with it. It's sort of like, Yo, I'm going to give you a treadmill, where all you have to do is just do the 4.0 mile walk and you're good, you're healthy. Meanwhile, people can only walk 2.5 miles per hour, because they'll get off at the wrong time. They'll be like a way is a dangerous treadmill, I don't know. And you're like, wait, but I can literally all the buttons are done, just walk. That's turbulence and confusing it for the plane going down. So most people don't understand risk. And it's inherent to be able to grow one's wealth. And in reality, down six percentages, turbulence market comes back the US economy grows, companies compound. Yeah, it's one of like, the biggest things like people just need to be aware of that, you know, often no one teaches it to you sort of like physical health. 

Chase: I think that is a very key word when we're talking about our financial health here, particularly investing. What do you really mean, you're in the financial world risk? define it for us? And when is it safe to lean into it? When should we be taking more risk? And when do we need to like heed warnings and the red flags of risk? 

Joe: For sure. 

Chase: And that might be kind of a broad statement. If you need to get specific in its application, I totally understand. 

Joe: There's this famous quote, in investing you'll see it on a lot if you ever have access to like these, these hedge fund managers investor decks where they pitch rich LP so it's a like insert famous hedge fund is pitching Harvard endowment, hey, give me a billion dollars, I deserve to manage it. One of the most common quotes that you know people put quotes in index, you know, to inspire audiences, one of the most common quotes you'll see is ships weren't meant to stay in the harbor. And it has to do with like luck. You've earned hard earned dollars day in day out. And people have the instinctive desire to protect it. Like Wait, let me just guard it, though, the reality is you're keeping a ship that's meant to sail in the harbor. So you need to go set the ship a sail. If you're smarter about it, you'll make it to a way better destination that will be way bigger, way more massive, and it will be a paradise, you just have to recognize that is not going to be 90 degrees and sunny every day you're sailing. And if you can understand that one simple fact what that means is when the market goes down, you can actually be like, alright, this is a great entry point, let's deploy every ship we've got ashore, because this is an amazing time to buy and invest. And so it's why it's like really important in, you know, at least on a Titan basis, why we're trying to take like the tools that LeBron James has to tell people, it's Taco Tuesday, aka what's called in app video technology, and be like you need to connect everyday investors with expert managers. No more black boxes. No more confusing stuff on CNBC, using someone expert, almost like a coach would at a gym, say, look, do not get off this treadmill, even though you think the treadmill is vibrating. Why? Because now if anything is the best time to speed it up, you're about to do the exact opposite so that is risk. 

Chase: So how then can still win? I guess two parts one, how can someone register when their treadmill is vibrating and shaking? And know that it's not time to abort? Not time to abandon but time to ramp it up, speed it up? And then second part is what is the best way to rely on somebody to guide us through that water? And I know we're going to we're going to get into Titan, this is a big part of what you guys do. But you know, looking at resources, who is a trusted resource? What is a trusted resource? What are the things we can lean on to kind of like, investigate and search on our own? 

Joe: I like to boil this down to like, when you invest, most people like have this abstract view of investing. It's like, it's just like, okay, there's the market. And it's like gambling. The right way to think about investing is the exact opposite. Pretend with your money you're buying a stake in a private, local owned business, just a little bit bigger than that. So choose let's say like you're thinking about investing in Apple stock. Mentally Well, you can boil it down to is investing in your local pizza shop. Okay, I'm buying a 5% stake in my local pizza shop. And now to your question, when the treadmill vibrates, how do we react? So let's protect so let's say you got a monthly report from this pizza shop. And you're like, Okay, pizza sales were down 3% this month. For me, it's going to be up 10% as long as I'm living exponential growth month over month, pepperoni sales through the roof. If you're if that pizza guy showed up at your doorstep and said, hey, Chase, we had pizza sales were down 3% this month. How are you going to react? They're gonna be like, go away. I don't care like you've been around for 20 years. Why do Is that why does that matter? Like, it'll be up 6% the next month, maybe it's down 2% thereafter, I know you're just gonna exist in this neighborhood, and you will continue to grow as the economy grows, the stock market is the exact same just at a macro scale. So Google, if Google comes to us and says, hey, Chase, and Joe, ad sales are down 2% this month, the stock is down. 10% on CNBC, most people have the reaction, oh, boy, economy's tanking, I need to reevaluate what I'm doing with Google, the right reaction is Google, you're a monopoly. You also have your monopoly across not just one business, but six businesses, you have leading market share in all the core domains you're in, you're one of the global leaders in a category that's really hard to replicate, go away, I know you're going to, it's going to rebound the next quarter, I don't even care like the local pizza shop. And what that means is when you're on that ship at sea, and the waves are going, you're like, I don't care about these waves, it's like whatever, it's I know that the ship will make it to the destination,

Chase:  it's a necessary part of the destination. And the ship I'm on was built to withstand all of this 

Joe: correct. And another nuanced conclusion is when you know what you own from the start. You're like, that thing I just invested in no wave can take it down there. Or let me put, let me be more accurate, there are very, very few waves that can take it down. And they look like tsunamis. So anything other than that, or anything that doesn't have the Bezos name on it, I should probably feel okay with. So that's investing, making sure you don't treat it like a gambling entity, you treat it like an owner. And if you can hire someone to say, hey, Chase, I'm going to take your money, and I'm going to research all these businesses in the world, every pizza shop the world has to offer, and I'm going to put you in a basket of the best, you should walk around in life being like, no tsunami can take me down. And that's what good investing is about. 

Chase: As you were just describing that analogy, it made me kind of think of not to just keep beating the global pandemic dead horse. But it is so true. The same analogy of if you build your life off of practices of inactivity, poor sleep, poor hydration, poor diet, just sugar, processed foods, nothing but just junk all the time. And then you got a virus that blows by the common cold that blows by, I mean, literally anything at that point can dramatically lower your immune system, you could be susceptible to a lot of different things. Or you do like what we're talking about here, and you build a ship, your body, your life, with just the best of the best ingredients, whole foods, quality, sleep, hydration, regular physical activity, go to the gym, weight train, go to yoga, whatever it is, that same thing that passes by you may or may not complete as blow by, but no matter what, you're going to be a much stronger ship to withstand that storm. And you're only going to be looking for tsunami type things in your life that you're going to be worried about

Joe: like a broken leg. And yeah, like, it's what's so funny is how similar, a lot of seemingly disparate things are. So like sports, or physical health and investing, you'd be like, okay, those are two polar different things. In reality, they're very, very similar. And they all have to do with what you said with having a philosophy that's long term and exceptionally sound, making sure you have access to the right information and expertise, and then ensuring you have the right ingredients. Like those probably three principles apply to like, way more things, and then just like sports, investing, 

Chase: that's the quality of any infrastructure of anything, I think, I mean, just take that lens and look at anything that you're you know, the person listening in your life and your profession in your relationship. I mean, whatever your whatever you're about. And if you start with quality and you build with quality, or you've got quality, if you start with shit and build with shit, well, you know, that's the house built a straw instead of bricks. 

Joe: Exactly. Hold that thing like we overweight, we can achieve in like two months and we underweight where we can even five to 10 years purely because of like, what is that rate of improvement, although it's very small on a day by day basis, and over a long period of time holy moly, it's huge. And it's, it's, in my opinion, like one of the single biggest drivers of the wealth gap is the fact that an average person will do behaviors when the waters get choppy and the waves occur that destroy that little itty bitty growth rate that should occur every day. And that really affects them down the road in ways you never knew. Same with physical health. 

Chase: Absolutely, man. It's like that meme. It reminds me that meme floating around so much when like AMC and Doge were like just going crazy. Come You want to go? It was that Braveheart meme of just hold. 

Joe: I just watched that. I just watched that scene in Braveheart. No shit. This scene is great for a number of reasons. But now I just added one more. 

Chase: well, then I guess, you know, I got to ask, what is what is so unique about Titan? I mean, you clearly share with us, thank you, by the way. So such clear examples and definitions of just high level financial health and investment. So please, hype yourself up, man, you know, what is Titan? And how are you solving problems?

Joe:  I'm not I'm not necessarily a hype man. But I can definitely explain it. I used to find history really, really boring, and particularly high school. And everyone's like, oh, I read autobiographies. I'm like, well, Blake, I don't want to read autobiographies. Now, history now that I'm an adult, what I've realized, and sure you realize it too, is the world changes, but human beings don't. And so I actually have turned to history a lot. And what you realize in particular, about investing is that those three things that I've described, like option one, make it go away, option two, I want to do it myself, option three, I want to give it to someone else. So those three options have existed across time. And there's always let's call it an authority that's responsible for one of those options. So Robin Hood is merely an instance of the first operating system which was the Amsterdam Stock Exchange, when you and the first stock that you can trade in that exchange with a Dutch East India CO, then all this like New Age, robo advisors are just new versions of what like Bogle at Vanguard had mentioned with the passive product. And with Titan, what we're a modern instance of is this all this behavior that goes back all the way to the Phoenicians, when they used to take 20% carry for the goods coming off ships and say, okay, I've profited a small piece of the things coming off your ship. So it's called Investment Management. So back then, investing in ships and eventually spice trade, and you name it and taking a fee for profiting and picking the right vehicle that will grow; spice trade is just an old version of investing in big tech and Dogecoin and AMC today into a we are is a platform for people to go invest in strategies and baskets of the good things in the world to invest in. So Titan, we have a strategy right now, which is large cap blue chip stocks, you can think like the Googles and the Amazons of the world, then we have a strategy, which is we're hunting for the newest opportunities, and we call it Titan opportunity. So that has newer younger stocks, then we're going to launch we've just will be launching I think, by the time of this announcement will be launched. The first ever actively managed crypto product so everyone's you know, trying to, they're all you know, everyone's trying to figure out do I invest in Bitcoin? What's this aetherium? How much percent should I have in Litecoin? So I was like, great. We're just gonna bring on crypto investment expert like, don't worry, we're just gonna research every major crypto acid in the world. And we're gonna appropriately size your assets and how much of it should go into this crypto strategy. And to the goal is, you know, fidelity is a boring company that was started in the 1930s. But in reality, that was the last great operating system in this third use case that I described, and what their mutual fund product was for baby boomers, which was back in the 70s and 80s, the sexiest thing on earth, walk into an office sign paperwork. I know the person that's managing my money. I'm in this fancy named fund. It's called the like XYZ fund of America. There's a basket of 20 companies. I know my ship is all set, I'm going to make it to the new world. What that was in the in the 70s and 80s there's no such thing for newer generations. All eyes, the eyes of Mordor are all on this on the social trading like screw,

Chase: is there one app to rule them all?

Joe: Exactly, eventually Titan. There needed to be a way for people to say hey, I actually don't want to do all this myself. I just want to give it to an expert. And I want them to do this intense and rigorous research for me because my money is really important. And so that's where we built that tie in with the with fidelity was in the mid-20th century. What the Og Phoenicians were 1000s of years ago, we're merely the new operating system for something that's existed for 1000s of years. 

Chase: I think you bring up a really unique point of where we are now in the world. Clearly, we are more advanced in pretty much every way. Well, most ways, technology we will just stick there. And so while we have access to greater access to quicker access to technology, i.e. information, i.e. answers, or even more questions, more problems. Where does Titan stand in like, in that, hey, yeah, the consumer, the investor has a lot more options to figure things out themselves. So maybe we're going to be met with more questions are going to maybe met with more friction? Or somebody who's going to think we can do it better? Like how do you differentiate? How do you stand out from the growth of technology and access to that?

Joe: for sure, technology is amazing. And what's so cool, is when you think about like, these inherent human behaviors, like investing is a discipline that probably takes over 10 years to master to begin to actually assess, should I go put 5% of my capital in Google or Apple, that's a really hard call, like really hard call, you need to rigorous amounts, or both. And there have been ways to give people money in the past to manage this for you hedge funds, super elite vehicle, and there's, you know, over 1000 of them, and they're all designed in the same way. But no one has yet to say like, Is there an elite premier vehicle for everyone? And that's what we're building. But the cool thing with tech is, the entire industry has predominantly been like black box. So like, if you Chase invested your money, and let's, let's say, I don't know your wealth, I'm not even gonna guess I'm just gonna say let's say it's $100 million. 

Chase: at least today, for sure. 

Joe: And let's say Chase was like, okay, I've made it time for me to invest my capital, with all these big things that I've seen on TV. Even still it is Black Box. It's like, okay, like, I'm going to get this quarterly letter every month, or every quarter, and it's going to say, here are my assets here and what they grow. But if you look over there, in the world of consumer tech, you see a person as famous as LeBron James, telling everyone that his movie Space Jam is out, and hear the exact details and the nuances of it. And it's like, wait, why can't we go give all these prestigious investment managers that sit in their offices, either in New York, Boston, Palo Alto, or Baltimore? That same technology or LeBron James as so that he could they can communicate to chase and say, hey, Chase, we're taking a look today at the Uber IPO for you, we're debating putting your capital in Uber versus Lyft. We're going to send you a video on Friday, Instagram Stories like explaining what we're deciding and why with your capital. And imagine then they said, oh, hey, we're going long Uber, and we're going to short Lyft reason being we don't think Lyft can gain market share against Uber or vice versa. This is what I mean, when I say Okay, look like it's clear the human behavior of Mr. or Mrs. expert, invest my capital, for me make it grow, it's here to stay. What needs to be rebuilt are all these Oldsmobile vehicles in the world have the potential to have a Tesla, and to that, how we think about consumer product at Titan, which is that the financial world is so old school, no one realize it because you haven't seen the other side of the restaurant. And it's sort of our job to go to go and build that for Chase.

Chase: Is, is that the answer then is that my interpretation of what you're just kind of describing is taking this kind of tried and true, or these tried and true models of investment and financial health, and repackaging them in a way that meets modern understanding of is that about it? I mean, because this stuff isn't, isn't really new, right? 

Joe: it's not and not new. In fact, it's 1000s of years old. And it just every, every so often, there needs to be what's a new, what's a simple a new vehicle needs to be built to ensure that the behavior modernizes so it's sort of like with weight training, we used rocks, and then all of a sudden we develop new materials. It's like, okay, the next gym shouldn't use rocks, it should use whatever new materials and we're like, oh, we then develop a pulley system. So now you can have these, you know, you can have an all in one gym and like one machine. And so we're applying the same principles to investment management was like, this industry is actually still using rocks, like it's actually still using all these different modes of being and we can actually make it faster, better, cheaper, and also way better experience such that like people don't feel they're relegated to either having to do it themselves or to stay outside the stadium. We're gonna tell you come in you can have personalized courtside seats because of mobile technology, and you're gonna have direct communication with Phil Jackson. So that's a little bit of imagination and courage you can actually rebuild the whole financial operating system. 

Chase: I love that last statement. I think with enough of both you could reimagine everything really no matter what you're looking at. 

Joe: Yeah first that you know, all these all these things, say first principles thinking, which means like, don't accept anything start from a fresh piece of paper and like really questioned every assumption. And it actually is one of the most important things you need to do in particular my lot. My line of business is don't take Fidelity Rowe Price Vanguard, Bridgewater, anything for granted. Like, take a look at the all the technology at hand and apply like a craftsman attitude to it. What can you literally rebuild from scratch, that would be way better? And that's what that's what I do like for most of my day job is doing that. 

Chase: What is something right here right now, you know, here we are middle of July 2021. Generally speaking, the average consumer, the average person out there can do to rebuild from scratch that you would recommend what is just like a really smart, generally speaking, financial decisions only make right now in the world of investment. 

Joe: I'm going to give probably something thinking through this. It's a good question. I feel like a lot of times, 

Chase: he's like, invest in Titan?

Joe: No, I'm not. I should probably be more self-promotional. Maybe a practical piece of advice that people can literally do this weekend versus get, you know, some daunting piece of advice. And it sounds great. But it's like no, why are people going to do it, I would say probably this weekend, go take a look at how you're invested. And try to explain to yourself why you're in each of those things. So very simply write down on your computer up, get a napkin with a pen, and write down the total dollar value of your net worth. And then under that, write a few sub numbers. Okay, this person is here, this percent is here, this person you should you know, sort of fill up a napkin, and then just literally look at it. And hopefully, you can explain why. It's like, okay, like, it makes sense that I'm here make sense, I'm here make sense, I'm here. And if you can't explain why, and if you don't feel confident about it, then proceed to next step, which we don't have to talk about today, which is go get to a place where you feel exceptionally confident about and it may require help. That's like a very small task everyone should do this weekend. 

Chase: That's a phenomenal tip man. And I keep kind of painting this health and fitness analogy is that is really the bare bones the beginning work of what most coaches definitely what I used to do with somebody, when we're trying to transform your life or we're trying to lose weight gain weight, just get healthy before we go trying to reinvent the wheel and change everything in your life. What are you currently doing or not doing? And let's get really let's get radically real and honest and uncomfortable. Because these are the moments when you realize well I I'm not going to the gym because I'm whatever I'm you know staying late at work and I'm missing family time or I'm you know, I'm skipping meals I'm doing this or I'm under consuming calories over consuming. You don't really know until you stop to take inventory. And the same thing is true here with you know your worth. It's an uncomfortable moment when you look at depending on which banking app you use, like oh shit 82% of my money out last month was to you know, dining out and you know, bars. Until you actually kind of stop and take a look at it. You know, how can reevaluate anything? 

Joe: Sounds like a good month. We need to have another episode where I ask you questions about what you do. 

Chase: That was the month I needed to get back into life after the world open up after COVID.

Joe: So that was a that was an investment month 

Chase: an investment in my emotional health. Definitely not my liver, that's for sure. 

Joe: Yeah, exactly. No, but what you're saying is totally right, which is, you know, just awareness and diagnosing, like the opportunity or the problem. You know, you could debate is like 80% of the battle like you could just like aware, okay, and then you can get over the practical procrastination season's over, but even just like awareness of that, like most people are just so unaware of so many things. And financial health is the most dangerous one because it's like it like sleeps like a disease. It's so what I only get 4% growth this year versus 10. You know, all right next year who I already have money, but in reality, this could be the maker break behind a second home, private education one’s kids being able to afford, like, I don't whatever people want to afford, it's like literally one's currency to go exist in the world. But there's no one, there's no pain of loss, it's almost just an error of omission. It's like, you won't have I mean, you could have less money if you trade it and you lose a lot. But more so just talking about like the upside and the growth potential. There's no real pain of saying I could have had 3x more as you don't have like an alternate universe to go live by and then go back in time. Yeah, to your point, like just diagnosing the essentials is so key. 

Chase: I'll paint another little health and fitness analogy here. I think an area where coaches especially in the beginning missed the mark, or nobody really teaches you this component is what happens when you're successful. What happens when that person you listening right now what happens when you reach that physique goal, that weight loss goal, that weight gain goal, that status in your job, that relationship? It's like, now what, there's a there's a whole new world, a whole new life waiting for you on the other side of that, because you quite literally, especially in the health and fitness world, you are a different person, your body is totally different. You're going to act differently, think differently, move differently, sleep differently. What is your stance, with that concept in the financial aspect, so like, hey, you found

Joe: I am realizing, unlike the human body, which has limits, it's like, okay, you'll reach, you know, 5% body fat, and you'd probably tell your coach, like, look like you should probably go apply to the NFL, if you can get any lawyer sort of thing with your wealth there's, it's, it's uncapped. There's almost no, there's both a destination and there's not, like, it's just a matter of because in theory, you can just compound it to your kids, you know, it's, it's more of watching it run. Like once you've set it up. Like, once you've built the principles for success, you can literally just do the math, and it's shocking, like, okay, if I get 10%, every year for the next 20 years on this, and then if the principle still working, I do another 10% for the next 20 years. So like the rule of 72, if you can get, if you can get let's say 10% annual returns, your money will double every 7.2 years. 72 divided by 10. So if let's say you add a million dollars in seven years, if you invested appropriately, you have to then another seven years, you have for another seven years, you have eight, another seven years, you have $16 million, that all just came $1 million. And so unlike the human body, there's going to be no 5% body fat convo saying like, Alright, stop it, if anything, what's the real health is making sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Like, okay, looking to impact the world in a certain way? Or how do you make sure you know, you're doing you're growing your wealth in a way that's great for the community, or really deploying it productively and good private asset classes. Those are probably the other combos. 

Chase: Where do you think someone is most scared with? And again, generally speaking, where do you think people are the most scared when it comes to stepping into awareness? Or just taking responsibility for their finances? And how would you advise them to get through that to get on the other side of that fear? 

Joe: Oh, it's so that I had this I, I wrote, so I was Summa Cum Laude, at one of the top business schools in the country, I worked at Goldman Sachs. And I could not figure out for the life of me how to move my money from my banking account to an investing account. I was age 25. I thought like, I've memorized every financial concept under the sun, which I practically had. The reason why it's so hard and why I empathize with so many people is because it's like, this is your like, hard earned living that like lives in a protected vault. And psychologically, it's like, wait, I'm opening up this vault to go put it in this other thing, which will go up and down and have to look at it. And so just from like, an emotional standpoint, it's such a battle to just get over the curve of just being like, okay, I feel great. Screw it. Like, I need to actually take all every dollar from my bank account and put it in an investing account so it can grow. And there's no, you don't learn investing in college. I mean, you know, most parents oftentimes aren't educated enough unfortunately to teach your kids investing just because they haven't been taught. So the hardest part honestly, just the education layer. It's why we spend so much time. Like what I said before, I'm taking all the engagement technology from Instagram, Snapchat and Tiktok and embedding it into our product because the outcomes are insane. You can literally educate someone in a matter of like a couple of video taps, you can give them like the full course on like the, or at least the tasting menu on like core investing principles directly from a prestigious individual living in New York, while they're live managing your money. And it's like holy grail, like done, you've officially hacked, investing in coaching for even someone poor in Kansas, they can get the same quality of advice, just because that single person living in New York can have an audience of equals, you know, as much as a server can hold, let's say, like 20 million humans. So that's like, what sort of keeps me up at night in a positive sense is like, how do I mass educate my generation, before they just day trade their money from like stock tips or getting on tik tok? 

Chase: What do you think? Um, I guess, again, generally speaking, is where are you most excited for the future of investment in financial growth? Is it in just is it in the awareness so that people become more educated and make smarter decisions with their money? Are we seeing a lot of new amazing technologies come out that are just going to make short term and long term rapidly more, you know, probable for people? Where do you kind of see big picture of financial health for people?

Joe: you and me being able to put our money in the in all the investments not just some.

Chase: Okay, what do you mean, exactly? 

Joe: So, like, for example, I won't mention the university endowment, but like, one of the big paradoxes is that, let's say your student at an Ivy League school, that like Ivy League school will have a PhD, who will write a research paper saying, you Chase you put all your money in a passive index, because that is the thing that will, you know, on a after fees basis, will, you know, have the best chance to grow your capital. Meanwhile, the Ivy League institution itself from all their tuition money, and usually they have anywhere between 5 billion to 40 billion, no way, are they putting a single dollar of that in a passive index, they are going to say, okay, I'm going to go put 20% of it in the best startup investments in the world, I'm going to put 20% of it in long short hedge funds, I'm going to buy a few core stocks I really like. And I'm going to do a lot of really interesting things to get really high compound growth rate returns. So for instance, I was chatting with one person who actually runs a $20 billion endowment. And he was saying that they're putting a really large check to the tune of $200 million in bourbon manufacturing in the Midwest. And I'm like, what, everyday person a knows that bourbon manufacturing is an incredible investment. And secondly, even has access to the deal. You and me are here debating which stock we want to invest in meanwhile, it only should end up being a small slice of your overall wealth. There's venture capital, there's hedge funds, there's alternative assets, there's real estate, there's cash. And so my dream is to build something where like you literally download it, hit a few buttons, and you instantly have a team of investors around the world that are putting you like in Latin American real estate deals from the private equity team, or you're 

Chase: taking your money and thinking globally, instantly, 

Joe: the best of the best, not just the stuff you see on CNBC, but like the best of the best stuff. Yeah, the jargon for this is it's called like alternatives or alternative asset man and it's just these locked, gigantic asset classes or places to invest your money that most people don't have access to.

Chase: you just give me like a whole new idea for a spin off conversation. I want to be mindful of your time, man. So I know your busy man and this has been a great high level view and very analogous view of this other pie this other slice of the pie of our health and our wellness man, it's you know, we are multifaceted beings and what is going to help us move forward in life also needs to be multifaceted. One thing that I'll say before I get to my final question, that last little component we're talking about I do think is great. And I hope somebody picked up on that. This is an opportunity. This is the time in our life in history where it is no longer only getting to like the ethics of it all, but just like why not Why shouldn't everyone have the same potential the same possibility to be plugged in to opportunities like this? How in the world but I, who is not completely invested in you no pun intended to what's going on the bourbon world, but why should that be kept from me? Why should my earning potential be kept for me, just because maybe I'm not studying it to the likes, maybe somebody else that's gonna get in early kind of thing. If I interpreted your kind explanation correctly. 

Joe: It is like a restaurant, if you have sub $10 million, your seat in the front, you're given a menu, that menu has like four options, they say pick, get out, as soon as you're rich, they take the menu from you and you get a tap on the shoulder by the waiter, you walk through the kitchen into the back, they give you a new menu, and it's like 10 pages, and it has all these other things and they say, Alright, we've already starred the things we think should be in the chef's waiting for you behind the counter. We've got 10 waiters waiting for you. So my, my core job can be dialed down to bridging those two things, helping the people in the front, get to back. 

Chase: Amazing, man. Well, my final question is kind of that final summation where you're just describing there is how are you here to help people, living a life ever forward means bringing attention and awareness, I believe to these key areas of our lives that help us move forward that move just 1% for the here and the now but also adding longevity that compounding effect to our life, our human optimization experience. So man, when you hear those two words, what does that mean to you? How would you say you live a life ever forward? 

Joe: To me, it's about to me, it's about consistency every day, versus really big things and discrete periods of time. Like to me, living a life ever felt word is just waking up with the attitude that today I'm going to get better just a little bit. But doing that every day, sort of like an attitude, like just show up, like show up every day in a row for all of your life. Maybe take a couple days off, but just do that a little bit. And that's probably yeah, it's probably I think the right approach.

Chase: It reminds me of one of the most original early pieces of advice I got my military career I was in army for a while and all leadership said was just I private just show up at the right place at the right time in the right uniform, and you've won already. Beautiful. Well, Joe, we're gonna have all the information down in the show notes for everybody. I'm excited to dive into you know Titan and learn more and make the transition from Robin Hood. Joe, you've been a wealth of information. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise here. It's been appreciated.