EFR 507: How Pets Improve Our Mental Health and How Pawp is Making Pet Healthcare More Affordable and Accessible with Marc Atiyeh

Chase: Marc, what's going on, man, thank you so much for being here on Ever Forward Radio greetings from all the way across the country, man. 

Marc: Absolutely. Thanks for having me Chase. 

Chase: My pleasure and this is going to be a really unique conversation one that I'm sure only a pet owner can know and relate to immediately. But we're gonna be diving into pet health, and not just their well being but how it kind of spills over into ours. And this is what I love about life, well-being, wellness, whatever you want to call it, there are so many different approaches to improving it, and to getting awareness into the things that contribute to our overall well-being. And animals are definitely one of them, man. So I guess my first question is, what is it about animals? What is it about our pets, you think that directly contributes to our overall well being?

Marc: Absolutely. I mean, pets are you know what some people call the most loyal creature or four legged friend that we have out there. They provide you with unconditional love, it's one of those, I would say without repeating myself an animal that it doesn't matter how hard you could be on them that always kind of like, use that and still provide you with endless support, endless love, it's unconditional love, something that human beings, unfortunately the past few years have forgotten about and that's what I think and why I think people are getting pets why people have, you know, adopted pets at the highest rates in the past decades or so last year, you know, COVID happen, people felt lonely, they figured that having a pet is could help obviously get that kind of mental health in a better in better shape. But unfortunately, and one thing that we've been seeing is, most people who adopted that, or buy a pet, as a matter of fact, can’t afford it. And one of the things and one of our missions here at Pawp is to make I would say pet care, or pet health, if you will, much more affordable and accessible for the vast majority of Americans. And that's why I think our mission translates into the well-being of an individual the human being.

Chase: I think what you're talking about there is really a universal concept and that's accessibility and cost to healthcare. And so many of us can relate to maybe wanting to do something in terms of our health and our wellness or even needing sometimes, but that cost is just a really, really big prevention, it is just a barrier that we unfortunately feel like we can't bust through or we never can, or we have a catastrophic event and injury or illness, God forbid, and then we have to, and then it just have to we may heal from that experience. But the financial burden just causes more problems to our health and our wellness. So how do we then go from that concept of trying to find ways to take care of our own health, our own medical needs to then pass it on to a pet? Because what you're talking about is not that common. I mean, some people have heard of pet insurance and things like that. But you know when it comes to our pet, we're a little bit more quick to unfortunately, like, I can no longer afford to keep this pet, I need to readopt it, give it back or find a new home or unfortunately sometimes even put it down. Yeah, what's going on there?

Marc: Absolutely. I mean the cost of pet care is going up over time over the past few years, we've seen obviously the cost of that care that is the average cost of a vet visit the average cost of I would say good human grade pet food. For the most part, it's been only accessible for the very few of us, the very few fortunate people who let's put it that way are you know, into 1% of Americans. Unfortunately, most Americans have been left behind in a sense where the best technology and the best care has only been available to the ones that can afford it. And for the most part, this is obviously coming from the human side of things where we've always associated paying more for with better care. What we are trying to do here with Pawp is essentially one of our taglines is quality pet care for a fraction of the cost. Telemedicine in its own and I would say the concept of telemedicine is one that in my view has allowed to give people who didn't have particular access to vets, people who live in something we call vet deserts who live a certain number of miles from a normal vet, and obviously, I'm not talking to New York residents or LA residents or Chicago residents as a matter of fact, but rather the vast majority of us live like all across United States, they don't have access to good quality care. And very often, they have to make the tough decision between good care and proper and decent care for their animal. And, you know, their own financial well being. And personal finance is obviously a topic that this is the background I come from before, obviously, starting this company, I was part of a couple of quote unquote, personal finance companies, one of which the first one was called Paribas. The premise of Paribas in a nutshell, here Chase if you buy something online, let's say you buy a T shirt for, you know, call it 20 bucks, and the price of that item drops within a certain timeframe, you're technically entitled to a refund of that difference back, thanks to all the price match guarantees, and whatnot. So what we did at Paribas is we built this tool that sits on top of your inbox, with bars, your inbox for all those online receipts, and in the event that the price drops, we will email customer or get in touch with customer support on your behalf and get you that difference back obviously keep the percentage of it to keep the lights up in the business. But the idea has always been like how can we use the technology to take advantage of some of those rules that big brands and big vendors and rich people, as a matter of fact, put out there for marketing purposes, with the hope that people don't take advantage of them. So technology can be this tool that allows that. So be it right. And some people have labored loss as justice as a service, there was a big trend around a lot of companies that are leveraging technology to do that. I think one of the other ones was I forgot the name but it's this one company that in the event that your flights got delayed, they will file a claim on your behalf and get you a some dollars back. And it's this whole kind of realm of like how can you use technology and data that is owned by you, the customer to benefit you, as opposed to be used against you by some of the most sophisticated marketers, the US. So this was Paribas. You know, we were lucky enough that that Capital One, you know, we joined forces with Capital One to say the least and after that, you know, I was lucky enough to partner with Adam, Dell, brother of Michael Dell, as a matter of fact, called Clarity Money. So in a nutshell, the idea of clarity, money, and it might sound not very intuitive to say but, but obviously, Adam Dell happens to have all those connections, he happens to have access to some of the smart, most sophisticated private bankers but the realization back then was, what about the rest of the United States? What about the rest of us? So how can we use technology to put in the hands of customers, some of the most sophisticated tools used by private bankers to quote unquote, get you the best mortgage possible, or get you the best auto car, like auto loan possible, or get you the best grade card possible or have to refinance your student loans and whatnot. So again, in the realm of using technology and benefiting from some of the trends, that we're seeing; macro trends that is out there, what can we do for the customer for the average American and that's the thesis we've always had. Thankfully, you know, this business, obviously, like, you know, merge and join forces with, with Goldman Sachs in the hope that we could, effectively at least clearly, money can play a role within Goldman Sachs in kind of having the whole culture of Goldman Sachs change and make a big push towards call it Middle America. You know, luckily, after obviously, this business, I left with my co founder, Andrew Malik, to start this business and the mission has always been back here is expensive. Most people don't have access to some of the best veterinarians. I'm lucky enough, I live in New York, and some people are lucky enough to live in big cities, we've been seeing a lot of like some of those newer and, and I would say more advanced vet clinics, and I can name a few of them. Obviously, like barn bed or small doors that modern animal, Milo is the one like I'm obviously a say I would say my dogs are patient or customers. But when we realize that most Americans, most Americans don't have access to that kind of quality care, they cannot pick up the phone call their vet, when their dog is throwing up at 1am in the morning. People for the most part tend to have scares and tend to for the most part think that their dog is going through the emergency. And very often the reflex is if they have access to a vet is to rush to the vet clinic, they end up spending $100 $200 what we're trying to say is sometimes you don't need to do that. Let Pawp be the first line of defense. Let Pawp put in the hands of most Americans some of the best, best and most advanced, I would say pet care experts in the country, and all of which we were obviously utilizing some of the technology that's been used in The human space, right? We didn't invent telemedicine; I don't even think we invented telemedicine vet. But what we add the concept of making pet care affordable and accessible by giving 24 seven access to licensed pet experts and pet care experts, and also understanding that most Americans, if their dog or their cat were to go through an emergency don't have $2,000 readily available. This is where I think that that Pawp shines. And this is why I think we're not the only ones. But we're definitely like putting or at least building or putting a break in making healthcare more accessible for everybody.

Chase: Marc, what I really think you're getting to the heart of here is and beyond even my own preparation for this interview is how much our financial health spills over into all other areas of our life. I was kind of talking about it, you know, if you get an injury or an illness or unexpected medical bill that you know, you may heal from you may get through but then you're kind of like taking one step forward, two steps back and think about the person I mean, maybe you've been there, I've definitely been there, maybe the person listening right now to where you want to take action about and do something in your life, you want to start buying organic fruits and vegetables, you want to get that gym membership, you want to hire that online coach, you want to spend your hard earned dollars in exchange for a product or service that you believe is going to help your wellness is going to help your fitness your nutrition, your profession, your relationship. And either you do or you don't, because either you don't see the value, or you just don't have the money, or that is going to be more of a burden. And what you're talking about here is really that in another light, and I haven't even thought about this, people who want to get a pet, because you just want a pet but also the amazing work that we know that they can do for us and how they can feed into our you know, lowering depression, lowering anxiety, emotional support animals, service animals, like some people quite literally, their lives change significantly by just introducing a dog or a cat. But they don't because they can't afford it or they have to get rid of it because of an injury or illness on their end. And so I just I just want to highlight that and give you guys acknowledgement that I think this is an area of our overall wellness when it comes to our financial health that people don't fully realize. But then to your point of maybe we didn't invent the wheel here, we're just making it better and run smoother. So now that we've kind of shined a light on this area of our wellness, our finances and our pets, can you kind of walk us through how are you all actually making this easier? How you alleviating some financial burden, and also increasing our, our happiness by helping us stay connected to our pets longer?

Marc: Absolutely. So one of our one of the things that and one of the values of Pawp is also peace of mind, right? At the end of the day as pets are no different than babies and obviously, no doubt, like I'm biased and some people listening to us right now will be like this, this these people are crazy.

Chase: They are our babies. Fur babies.

Marc: part of the family 100%. But you know, what I would say is this, especially as a new pet bear and right and last year, we see like 5 million new pets being adopted. For the most part, you know, new pet parents are millennials. And one thing I will say is this, this constant battle of am I doing the right thing by my bed, right? I'm someone who wants to make sure I'm doing the right things. But more importantly, I'm looking for someone or a brand or a person to tell me and essentially give me peace of mind that I am doing the right thing by my pet. things will happen with pets, right like pets throw up, but sometimes feel lethargic pets over eat at some point they may lose or may not lose appetite in some way, shape, or form. And I can tell you some of the would say you know in a vulgar way phone calls we get of people who just want peace of mind, they just want someone validation that they are doing the right thing. And very often more often than not, our vets are playing in some way shape or form the role of a mental health expert.

Chase: I believe it. I have been there once or twice.

Marc: calming you down like hey Chase, don't worry, this is normal. You know, your dogs throwing up? Let me ask you a question. Chase. Did you change the brand? And would you give your dog chances are Yes. But this is normal Chase. You know, in most cases, when you change the brand of food, there needs to be some adapting period, right? Like there needs to be a few days you need to slowly ease into that. And while like you may say oh, that's like you know, everybody knows that. But most people don't right? And they ended up freaking out. Some of them go and rush to the vet clinic pay $200 $300 and very often more often than not, some of the vet clinics that they go to are owned by some of the biggest like hedge funds, and PE firms in the country. So they have all the incentives of the world to push medication or potentially even like recommend a brand or another.

Chase: Wow, that's amazing the things that you never think of when it comes to where your money is going. 

Marc: correct. A lot of the money made by vet clinics today unfortunately comes from cross selling products. And very often there are unsolicited recommendation in a sense where you go in because you think your dog throwing up, you come back home with a $400 bill. And we have over the counter medications you may or may not need. I'm not again, I'm not generalizing, I'm just saying that this space or at least the incentives have been aligned in the past few years in a way where it's all about short term gain. It's all about pushing prescription, cross selling products, and sometimes services and also sometimes insurance as a matter of fact. So there is this whole thing happening in this space where unfortunately, everybody is coming together against the pet parent and figuring out ways to extract more than the average $2,000 that parents spend a year on their bed. So what we are doing at Pawp is we had we are unlimited access, and this is something we're very, very proud about. We're the first ever digital clinic in this space that gives you unlimited talk, text and video chat with event we don't charge you for those, we actually don't make money off the recommendations that we give you. So the incentives are so well aligned that we want to provide value for the pet parent and sometimes you come to us for we have this thing that you know we literally have this tagline that be smart ask the stupid question what we tell our some of our you know, some of our members like be smart and no question is too small of a question. Come to us as the questions at least give you another example. My fiancé just texted me right now she's headed to the vet clinic, she needs to do a lab test for our dog right. Like we had a little bit of a MSL nothing scary, right? So before going to the vet clinic, she reached out to Pawp and the reason for it is she wants to be educated so that what by the time she's in the vet clinic, one they don't take her for a ride, in a sense, where they're not going to like tell her oh, you need to do this, this and that at least you're a little educated. And it's again, it's the idea of I don't know, but I grew up in Lebanon and we've always before going to any doctor, we call our friend, the doctor, so that we feel smart about going to the specialist and don't sound dumb, and make sure that the specialist is not taking us for a ride. That's what I want people and this is what and how people are using Pawp and alternative is you come back from the vet clinic and the vet is trying to quote you $1,000 for some tests that you may or may not need come to us assess what we think we have absolutely zero incentive to tell you yes or no unless it's an objective yes and no. So that's where a lot of our people, a lot of our members are benefiting and quote unquote, just to simplify things, they're saving a lot of money. All In the meanwhile, being able to offer quality care and feel good about it, about being good parents, which is again, tying back to mental health, it's this whole thing, you adopt the dog, you want to make sure you're being a good pet parent, but you don't know you need the validation, you need someone to tell you this is correct. Like this is normal. It's okay. You should expect this, like you know, to happen, or you know, something along those lines. So this is where unlimited access, no pay to play in a sense where it's you pay one time, one time, once a month, 63 cents a day is what it costs you to be a member of Pawp, it's a no brainer. I mean, obviously I am biased, but having that kind of access, that peace of mind, obviously 24 seven, so that is a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, wherever you are, it's in the palm of your hand and there's this whole idea that we're starting with this. There's a lot more we're building that I mean, obviously extremely excited about.

Chase: Well, all that sounds amazing. Congratulations. Again, I think this is such a unique offer to not only helping our pets, which is really helping our family. But also I mean, the whole financial stability, access of you know, when we, when we want to spend our money, we're really investing with our dollars, we're investing on what we think what we believe in, and also what is going to be that value exchange when it comes to our individual self, our families and our pets are definitely a part of our family in that. So I see, I see the unique problem that you all are solving and that is getting peace of mind which again, I'll make the analogy how many of us do that before we want to go to the doctor or we go see a personal trainer or we do anything else in any other area of our health in our fitness. We want to become a little bit more educated. We want to become a little bit more empowered so that we don't hopefully get taken for granted or spend too much or sometimes maybe don't spend enough. And we just got spending money on poor quality, you know. So I see that unique aspect, I see the education, I see the empowerment and I see the value. So my question is, then no, maybe too soon. I don't know, where do you want to go with this? Because it's solving for the here and the now. But what is what does the future hold? What do you see if we can get stability in our finances, stability in our, our mental health and just our family unit? Where can this really take us? Where can Pawp take us?

Marc: Absolutely. So if you think of pet care as 100 billion, you know, billion dollar industry, right? Like I would say 1/3 of that is pet food. And I've always said this, you want to build a multi or you want to build a big successful business, you can get away with just focusing on food. The problem with it's the all everything else, right? So you really want to build a proper brand household name. When it comes to pet care you will have ultimately to do it. All right, everything but that food, if that makes sense, right? So where we're going from there without obviously giving up a lot, but it's looking at the human space. Look at what we've been seeing with the likes of all those companies that you understand that sometimes facilitating or giving access to some of the preventative at the very least prescription is something that can pay off in the long run. I'll give you a quick example. One of the I would say I was when I adopted you know, my first dog, I went to the vet, the first thing that the vet recommended is you got to get your dog started on what they call the anti flea and tick medication anti heartworm, right. Oh, sure. Yeah, brand name. I thought everybody did that and I was very, very surprised when we did some market research, we looked at the rest of America and very unfortunately, a lot of people, you know, either don't have access to those think it's too expensive. The markups that all of those pharma companies are making off the back of pet parents is just they're just ludicrous. More importantly, some of those patents have been vacated. So there's a lot of interesting movement that's happening in the space. We think that that's the way that's one way to go. And one thing and one promise we will make and we have always made our members is being a member of Pawp is going to help you allow you to save money in a lot of other things. I'm you know, we are light years behind Jeff Bezos. But in a sense, where if you can come up with a model where you pay Prime membership, and then the rest, I can sell you at cost. That's probably the direction we're going to go with, right. So this is what we what we feel is the next step for us. Another interesting I would say if evolution in the space is done in medicine, or at least prescribing medication via telemedicine has been a big no in the space for the past few years and the reason for it, or at least the argument against doing that is dogs and cats can’t talk whereas a human being can express themselves. It's very hard for a dog and a cat to talk, but one of the push backs that I have and again, I will put a bleak disclosure here, I am not a veterinarian, I do not have a DVM or whatnot. But there's no reason you need to go to the vet clinic, pay $200 $300 every three to six months just to renew your next card subscription or your anti free and take medication. If there is a way we can help you remind you about those but more importantly make it very easy for you not only to have access, but have very cheap and affordable access to those similar I would say medication then this is the direction we're going with. And one last thing I will say on this Chase, this space is very, very like, I would say there's a little bit of aggregation that we need to do. If you ever try asking your vet for a recommendation for a trainer, you're probably don't know anybody. If you ask them for recommendation for behaviorist, they might not have the right connections, which is kind of funny because I was complaining about the fact that they're very close with the pharma companies, whereas they're actually extremely, extremely disconnected with the rest of Pet care. Right. And this is one thing we feel that technology or the fact that we're doing digital clinic will allow us to do if we can get some of the best experts in the country; nutritionist, behaviorist, going back to the office right? People have adopted pets, now they're going back to the office separation anxiety is going to become a real thing. So if we can put a behaviorist on one of you know, on our platform, some of the experts and the best ones to do it in the country, that's going to be very valuable training, one of the fastest growing areas, pet adoption through the roof. People need to make sure their dogs and cats are trained. Training is one of those areas that are blowing up. Unfortunately, we've seen again and again and again that there are companies is trying to solve one area. And my gut is the way you really serve a pet parent is to understand that you need to play in all of those areas, provided, you might be different things for different people. You know, if you are a quote unquote puppy, sorry, if you are a senior dog, you might not look at Pawp as a way to get a recommendation for food or new, new brand of food, but you may need us remind you about those prescriptions you may need us to, like help you about, you know, like, with everything that has to do with being a senior dog and whatnot, right. So that's, that's how I feel like, you know, we can evolve as a company.

Chase: Amazing, you, obviously you've, you've thought this through, and it shows, you know, the problem solving here and now and in a multifaceted way. But just also getting ahead of the curve a little bit, you know, we can solve a problem now. But we're humans, we're animals, we're with our animals. And that inherently is going to yield new problems, new situations, and we just have to evolve and we have to grow with it. If we want us to be as successful as possible, and hopefully bring our fur babies along for the ride. I want to shift gears just a little bit and kind of get a little bit more personal with you if we could. I think we said right before we were recording my wife is also Middle Eastern. She's first generation Iranian American Persian, you're from Lebanon and before we met, she never had a pet. And I've come to realize, especially in Middle Eastern cultures, and a lot of other cultures around the world aside from America, domestic pets, is not really a very, very common thing. And so I'm curious, this, maybe it has been on your radar, or is it now another barrier for some demographics, some cultures to enter for an industry like Pawp or, or to think about financial health and wellness? So how does this relate to the masses really? How can we kind of break the barrier of these different cultures and show the true value one in the value of pets, the happiness they bring us and everything else that comes with it but to just the value here and what you're what you're doing?

Marc: Yeah, I mean, thankfully, we you know, we were in a country that has roughly 90 million dogs, 85 million cats, you know, I get asked all the time, are you guys going international? Or the way I phrased it in the more informal ways are we going global? The answer is probably not now, right like we have so many pets to take care of in the US. Two thirds of households have a pet, obviously, and we've seen this in a lot of industries, like the US has always been ahead of the curve. And one of the countries that I compare the US to is France, right? Like France is roughly, I would say 60 million people and they have roughly like seven, eight, maybe 9 million dogs and cats domesticated and actually, France is one of those countries where there are more cats than dogs. So with all of that being said, I think that again, like it's obviously grand vision of ours to make pet care, more accessible and obviously, like easier, I think having tools around. It's an ecosystem at the end of the day, like you know, people ask, like, why are there startups in the US and like, maybe not as much in Europe. And the reality is, it's not just the founders it's not, it's not just the DCs or the money, it's not just the acquirers it's the whole thing. People complain about Google and Facebook, but the reality is Chase, the reason why a lot of startups have a chance at it is because of those companies who can quote unquote, help you exit and help you kind of liquidate, right, and this is how I think of pet care. It's not just us and one thing that I will say is, we need to make sure the whole ecosystem for proper pet parent is around you whether this is financial services, when it comes to bets. I think that some of the rest of the obviously word is a little lacking, is obviously lacking here. Insurance is one of those where we should all be ashamed of only 2% of pets are insured in the West, it's a shame when you look at some of the data coming out of Sweden 70 80% when you look at the data coming out of like, you know, Europe in the UK, 20 30% I think the number is, and we are still stagnating around two to 3%. It's a shame. We have yet to understand what is it that people want? What is it that people look at when they buy insurance, and I'm happy to spend another five hours with you and explain to what the real problems of pet insurance is but it's again, like it's not its financial services, its proper care. Obviously we have some of the best pet experts in the world. Here in the US. We have some of the best nutritionist, trainers, you name it. It's some of the brands that we have, right like we have some of the best food. Like in the US we're lucky enough to have the choice of six, seven, maybe even 10 brands when it comes to human great food which helps the customer the consumer because competition obviously allows the prices to go down whereas If you go to a country in the UK, and I don't want to name the brand, there's a monopoly and that's why like human greed today is extremely expensive. So long story short, I think it's an ecosystem. I think that you know, all of you know, everything that's around pet care or parenthood should evolve for this to become more and more prevalent. And last, but not least, some of it is obviously culture, right? Like, you know, there's some countries where, you know, animals don't come or as are not as important. As you know, I would say, human beings and I have found myself having those discussions with some of my fellow Lebanese and unfortunately, Chase, like, we're going through a financial crisis back home. I feed my dog some of the best human grade foods and some of my friends are like, but we're starving back home, right, like kind of thing, and I get it, and I completely get it. It's been tough and I think that a lot of other countries are going through similar like phases but more importantly, like I firmly believe that they're, you know, being advanced as a country and being a developed country, is what needs to happen before you know better adoption becomes more mainstream in some of those, those other countries. But again, going back to the basics, Chase, let's take care of the 160-170 domesticated pets we have the US and that in itself, in my view is a very noble mission.

Chase: What's the name of your new pet?

Marc: So I have two dogs. One of them is called Chelsea, named after Chelsea Football Club. Very happy they won the Champions League this year. So it's been a good day. A good week or a couple of weeks for us, but that's Chelsea. She's yorkie. She's actually Tiktok famous. That's the thing. She's got like 200,000 followers plus on Tiktok. I take no credit. My wife did all of that. But it's one of those things we did during quarantine. So yeah, Chelsea the Yorkie on Tiktok little plug here. The other one is a Chow Chow. Very different. Right. So I made that joke the other the other day where obviously there was this Mayweather fight with Jake Paul, I have a big call it like white dog and I would say like the Yorkie is the darker side of things. And one of them is clearly bigger than the other. But I would say Chelsea is the quote unquote smarter more like funny one. This could have been the best, like flyer or, or you name it, but that was that was it. So I have a Chow Chow that's six, seven years old. And I have a I have a Yorkie that's also like six and a half; both females. 

Chase: I used to have a Chow, she was a Chow Shepherd mix. Okay, she was with me for almost nine years, unfortunately. And this is a, you know, personal relation to what we're talking about here. I had to put her down. She, for the last almost two, three years of her life, she actually suffered from a disorder that humans can get called Addison's disease, and it affects the adrenal glands. And it is a severe electrolyte imbalance kind of havoc around the adrenal system, that she went through what is called an Addison's episode, and just completely shut down, stop eating, stop drinking, wouldn't come inside for a couple days and when I reached that pain point, to where I had to scoop her up, take her into the emergency vet, which alone right there was hundreds of dollars. She was there a couple days, and it came down to it said, Hey Chase, we, we can help her out, she's going to need more medication, which is already on, it's going to have A B and C side effects, it's going to have this price tag, I was already giving her two medications a month spending close to about $100. And that price tag was going to go up by a couple 100 more, but overall is just like her quality of life is going to be significantly less. And I think whether we have insurance or not, whether we have the means or not. It just comes down to the end of the day, when we're talking about our life or our pets. It's like, you know, how much more can we pour into something that is just it's just we're not going to get the ROI. And unfortunately, I had to make the hard decision to put her down because just the side effects of the medication and everything told me about was just I can't put her through that. But here's where maybe I wish at the time, and she actually was my last dog that I did have insurance on. And it did help significantly to the tune of I think almost $3,000 and so it was just I was very grateful to be a little bit more financially savvy and have insurance with her. So I had more time with her. And if not, probably a year ago I her quality of life would have suffered more medication and it would have been out of costs for me and I wouldn't have had that valuable time with her so and how unique are Chows, by the way, how unique are they?

Marc: the best People who tell me Chows are aggressive. I'm like, I don't believe in that some breeds are, there's no such thing as a bad dog breed or a bad dog. There's such a thing as it that that parent or you know, pet owners, my Chow is the sweetest person. And again, I just give you quick background. So I adopted Chelsea, and then I met my soon to be wife, getting married next month do not congratulate me. I am not at that stage yet. But more importantly, the Chow is my fiancé’s Chow and, you know, we brought her in from Europe to the US, that was obviously attract, but more importantly, from day one, like you could feel that this is a dog that is willing to learn. I would say very, yes I do believe some breeds, like you know, just catch things faster. But the dog, you know, it's like, her name is fluff. We're not very creative, but it's fitting. So fluff came in, she knew nothing, we were able to teach her to say to stay to like, follow and aggressiveness is the farthest thing away, like the farthest thing from like, who she is, as a pet. She, you know, she's one of the sweetest pets. She is very loyal, that's for sure. You know, and I like that, you know, I like the fact that when there's like, 20 people she stays next to me. But more importantly, they're phenomenal, like sweet dogs that have a double coat, which is, you know, something that, you know, some people I mean, I have this story where two three years ago this was report but you know, we took the Fluff to the to the groomers and my fiancé calls me like crying she literally like face times me never does that day, shows me the child, she was completely shaved. And it's something you don't do with Chows for the simple reason they have something called double coat, double coat, actually, people think that Oh, shaving her is good for her. It's the summer. It's not true. Actually, the reason why she has these two layers, which allows her to kind of preserve some of that, like, you know, cold, if you will temperature. So it was this whole thing where, you know, I called the vet first reaction the vet comes over, to which I started reading dollar signs. I'm like, yeah, that's at least three $400 but more importantly, my fiancé goes, and she comes back with the prescription for Prozac. And I looked at her is like, what is Prozac? True story. What is Prozac going to do to her? And I call the vet, I'm like, is this human Prozac? Or is this like, like, no, and by the way, like, if we get started on that, if we get started, we're gonna have to do this for the rest of our lives. I refuse plain and simple Chase, I started showing extra love. Because at the end of the day, I mean, again, I'm a believer in science, I was probably one of the first people to do the vaccine. I'm not an obviously skeptic here at all. But one of the things also that I feel happens and again, this comes maybe from my background, but in the US doctors veterinarians are just so good at prescribing stuff. So sometimes you don't need it. You don't need like I did my ACL surgery. I don't need three bottles of oxycodone and morphine like I need a handful of them for two three days. I don't need the 60 pills. What am I gonna do with the rest of them? Anyway, so we didn't do the Prozac. We showed her extra love we like we went back to the basics which is like she's probably anxious she doesn't feel like we're you know, she's herself obviously the hair not being on her like feels weird. She's probably seeing the reaction of some people including my fiancé absolute that like my fiancé was at some point like this is how we lose her we need to show extra love we need to be extra nice we need to make her understand that she's the same we still love her and again six months in like you know the hair went back up and everything's perfect we didn't need Prozac at all and she's in the best shape she's been so again it's this whole going back to we didn't know better the best the acts act we had we knew our vet, we didn't have a second opinion which again by the way, I feel that Pawp can help a lot with second opinion or just want a second opinion. So it's one of those things that why not but to my initial point it's pushing stuff it's pushing stuff it's pushing stuff without really explaining and understand why am I giving my dog Prozac. If the alternative is spending more time and being thoughtful about like her well being I tried to do that I put in the extra hours. Not a problem. I'll give her an extra treat or two every day. Not a problem. I don't need to put her on medication. Anyway that's kind of like a side story on Chows but I love Chows. I will keep Chows all day.

Chase: I can I get I know exactly what you mean. Mine was very loyal. I'll be totally honest. Bitchy definitely could be bitchy but once she liked you, like Yeah, she was never gonna leave your side always protect you just love you. She was the most playful thing in the world so I can relate for sure. Well, Marc, it's been great having you on the show here man and this has been such a unique conversation in a different conversation when it comes to our wellness here on Ever Forward Radio. But I really want the listener, the viewer here to like to take note that we're talking about much bigger concepts here, we're talking about getting back to basics of affection, of love of spending quality time with the people, places and things in our lives that pour into our lives and vice versa. We're talking about becoming more aware of our financial health and how it can allow us to grow or can be a limiting factor. And also kind of what you're just talking about there, the end is to become more educated, more empowered, and to have more questions when it comes to our healthcare system. Be cautious of anybody a doctor or your best friend, that anytime and every time you present with a problem, it's always the same response. Just be cautious, be curious about why am I always being peddled this thing. And, you know, go from there, do your do your research, always, you know, you know, don't just like go off of a whim. But you know, experts are there for a reason. But just, I really hope the listeners’ kind of picking up on these concepts of the bigger picture, and the multifaceted ways that helps us tick in every way possible.

Marc: Totally, I mean, I come again, from personal finances and it's a topic that's very hard to talk about people for the most part are very stressed and anxious about their personal finances. Having a dog or adopting a dog should not add to it should not add more stress, people get a dog for a reason not to add more stress and only add more stress in their lives. So if there's ways we can, whether it's us or someone else, Chase and I will say this 100 times, I firmly believe, and this is kind of a side story but one of our investors literally asked us like what, you know, who loses if you win? And I refuse to answer this question whereby I came to this country and the reason why I love this country is that it doesn't that nobody has to lose if you win, in a sense, where I want the other players in the space to do something like I've heard of, let's say a newer company that is lobbying to lift those regulations when it comes to prescriptions that we're not, I'm rooting for them. And if you know, if they're listening, I'd love to talk to them. Like I'd love to figure out ways that we can, you know, we can help each other advance some of those regulations on a state by state cases. Right? So all I'm saying is, is this is a grand mission. This is using technology and putting technology in the hands of people all in the meanwhile This is a capitalistic country chase like we are not don't get me wrong we are we need to make money and we need to figure out a way to keep the lights on. There are ways to do that. And it doesn't necessarily mean doing harm to the customer or doing harm to pet parents. There are so many ways I'm happy to talk to anybody who's trying to figure out ways or still looks at Pawp and how'd you guys make money then there's a lot of ways but one kind of like you know, one of the promises is it's not going to be at the expense of the pet parent for Christ's sake chase on the back burner myself and if there's one side and one thing this is the soft side of the human being is them being better. My mom growing up always told me be careful of people who don't like animals. She might be a little extreme in a sense where like, but my dad didn't like dogs he came in he spent two weeks with my Yorkie I'm talking like, you know, a two weeks with Chelsea like this was like four or five years, he fell in love. There's absolutely no way that a dog doesn't appeal to your soft side. And if you tell me like I have allergies, that's a different thing, right? That's obviously medical. I'm not arguing with that. But you have like, again, you might be more of a dog person than a cat person. We're not talking about reptiles here we're not talking about exotic like exotic pets. But cats dogs, I mean come on kind of human being doesn't like doesn't have their heart melt when they see a cute cat or a cute dog. Right? So this is where we want to be. I love the audience. I love who we're serving every day. I love the mission that we have that some of those, you know, human fresh, great food for dogs are doing obviously, this, this is a great mission. I'm a customer first and foremost. I love what some of the other players are doing. And also like you know, some of the insurance players out there. Hopefully they wake up to the fact that the current solutions don't work. And we have to literally like look at what's happening in Europe and understand that this needs to be like literally flipped upside down the whole like pet insurance. But it's all of us and it takes an army it doesn't take one company not even two it takes like 15-20 and I'm so happy every day waking up seeing that there's like new companies new brands trying to solve different areas of pet care. It pushes us to do more to say the least and competition and this country has shown that over the past centuries, competition is always good at the you know it I would say in the long run for customers so and, and I would say also for parents. So that's what we're hoping for. That's really what we're hoping for.

Chase: I love it, man. Well, I say all the time, I think drive is one of the most contagious things in the world. And you can look at drive as competition, you can look at drive as motivation, you can look at drive as we all win, like you've been talking about and that's how I choose to look at it. And I think that's a perfect way to kind of bring us to a close here, man. And that's the bigger picture of everything and how we all can win. If I focus on ways that I can win here and now today, and that seeps out into my world, my house, my community, the world, then that is the world that I want to live in. And it starts with us and starts with us taking a step forward. What does that mean to you Marc? Living a life ever forward? It's very all encompassing. I think we've hit the nail on the head here in many different ways. But just when you when you hear that phrase, what does that mean to you? How do you live a life ever forward?

Marc: Yeah, I mean, invest in your health and I will say this, you know, from day one, and you know us as I'll call myself, an aspiring entrepreneur, but it's tough. It's really tough. What we're doing the same way someone, anything you want to pursue. Doing it to the fullest is extremely hard. I actually have one of my closest friends. He's a professional boxer. I don't know how much you know about boxing Chase, but it's one of the most cutthroat industries in the world like you, the margin for error is so small. So this is my way of saying, like, always understand life is a marathon, it's not a sprint, there's going to be ups and downs, the best thing you can do as a human being is manage the ups the same way you manage the downs, people who tell you it gets easier over time, it doesn't, your ability to take it becomes better, you become much more, you know, better at dealing with those issues, and also better at managing You know, when things are going well. And that's something I will say so as entrepreneurs, that anybody who's pursuing what whatever their passion is to the fullest, it's gonna get hard and just make sure that you always reflect you always take a step back. I don't want to sound too corny, but I still believe that we're here talking, in very good health, I think you know, I'd like to believe obviously, you're an obviously like a very good shape like life is good. Again, like, be thankful and be blessed with everything you have. One thing I always say is talent is universal opportunity. We are in the country where opportunity you can pursue whatever opportunity you want, if you have the right talent. So take it one step at a time. Go you know, fulfill your potential, whatever your potential is and never, never forget to just put things in perspective. Sometimes when you get to a stage in life where you're only surrounded by successful people, you always are going to feel like you're not doing well enough. Well put things in perspective. Put things in perspective. That's what I would say.

Chase: Amen, brother. Amen. Thank you so much for that interpretation. I love that answer. Marc, before we really close out here, of course, I'm gonna have all of the information and Pawp’s information down in the show notes for everybody. Where can they go to learn more about what you have going on? Where can they connect more with Pawp?

Marc: Yeah, so it's Pawp.com, its four letters PAWP.com like paws a part of the dog or cat. Our Instagram handle is also Pawp, we are my Pawp, I believe on Twitter, which is find us on Pawp. And again, no small there's, you know, we have one of I would say, one of the better or a customer experience team that I'm very, very proud of. So any questions you may have, please feel free to reach out to us. Whether you are you end up signing up or not. I would just want to make sure that everybody understands like we're all in this together and feedback is always more than welcome. It's not just us. There are a lot of very incredible founders and incredible teams, building incredible things in pet care and I'm extremely proud to be in the space.

Chase: Well, that's been an amazing time with you. I thank you again so much for your expertise here and sharing this experience with Pawp with us. I'm personally really excited to dive in and learn more because I'm on my current dog right now her name is Nella. My wife and I adopted her about seven pushing eight years ago. We think she's about nine or 10. And who knows when you adopt? I think she is my probably like dog and cat combined she's probably my like 14th or 15th pet in my life.

Marc: I didn't have that right. Growing up in Lebanon, I had one dog, and it's like we got the dog because my brother had like got this amazing grade in school. But my brother was like my brother was eight years old. I was five. We never took care of the dog. His name was Rex. He was a Yorkie. Hence why my first dog was a Yorkie but more importantly, it was one of those situations where we had to give her to her neighbor as a matter of fact, because we just gave it to him sorry because we just couldn't take care of him and different times, right different times. But my hope is that people do better now and think about it. And we are here to help them become better parents. So no 14 pets.

Chase: I grew up in the country, I many a couple 100 acres and we just had dogs and cats. Some we actually got or adopted or bought many, most of them are strays. And so I grew up just around animals my entire life, and I've never not had one. So I can maybe I'm a little biased, but just I can't imagine my life without them.

Marc: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one last thing, if I may, yeah, please, our membership covers up to six pets. And the reason why I mentioned this is, you're one of many right to have more than one pet at home. I've grown up with dogs and cat, all you need is one membership. We really believe in that. We want one membership per household. And I think this is a super important for us. So that's, that's why I wanted to mention it.

Chase: That's huge. That's a game changer, I can go back to when you know, when buying pet insurance, you might get a discount on more than one.

Marc: For us. It's a flat fee whether you have six or one; it doesn't make our investors happy. We can always make the economics work, it doesn't matter, like do well by the customer, do well by your user, there's gonna be ways to make money. That's something I will always say. 

Chase: I agree.