"The data is just the baseline... We make adjustments while you sleep to improve your sleep performance... more REM sleep, less disturbances, and more restful sleep."
Matteo Franceschetti
Nov 23, 2020
EFR 408: New Technology to Improve Your Sleep Fitness with Matteo Franceschetti
00:00:00
00:00:00
EFR 408: New Technology to Improve Your Sleep Fitness with Matteo Franceschetti
You prioritize your physical activity and nutrition, but what about the third wellness pillar that could be solely responsible for actually allowing the first two to be optimized? SLEEP! Humans spend years of their lifespan doing it but are we actually getting the quality of sleep we need? Serial entrepreneur and lifetime athlete Matteo Franceschetti believes that when we focus on improving our sleep fitness we can actually optimize our performance, recovery, and overall wellness to levels we have only, well... dreamt about. In this episode, you will learn about cutting edge new technology that will help you sleep better and live a healthier, happier life.
Follow Matteo @matteofranceschetti and @eightsleep
Follow Chase @chase_chewning
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Episode resources:
More about Matteo and Eight Sleep:
Active Grid™ Cooling Technology
Designed to blend with the premium mattress layers, the Active Grid is flexible and contouring, conforming to your body and relieving pressure points.
Its unique grid pattern creates a total cooling surface of 7 square feet on a Queen size Pod. It uses water to facilitate the continuous absorption and removal of up to 20W of heat from each side of the bed, helping you and your partner stay comfortably cool.
Comfort Blend™ Integrated Topper
Pod Pro features an additional layer of foam in its Active Grid —the thermoregulating layer of the bed. Like a premium topper, the integrated Comfort Blend™ pairs with the other four layers of premium foam for the ultimate contouring support while continuing to deliver a personalized microclimate on each side of the bed.
Seamless Sensing Technology
The proprietary Sensing Technology includes multiple sensors like piezo films, ballistocardiographs, and temperature sensors for both bed and environment.
At just 0.01 inches thick, this technology is sensitive enough to detect heartbeats and breathing patterns, yet thin enough to remain imperceptible while you sleep. This data helps the Pod track your sleep to continuously adjust temperature to your personal needs.
Water Powered Hub
3.2 liters of temperature-regulated water flows from the Hub to each side of the Active Grid. To heat and cool the water, the Pod uses thermo-electric cooling elements in conjunction with a Heat Sink and two premium cooling fans like those found in upscale gaming PCs --- so silent you won’t notice when your Pod is on.
To top it all off, the Hub is connected to Wi-Fi, enabling remote control of all of the Pod’s functionalities.
Premium Foam Mattress
Four layers of Certi-Pur US certified foam come together for utmost comfort. 2” Airflow Top Layer is soft to the touch, it outperforms any other foam on airflow, elasticity, and instantaneous response to your body impressions.
1” Supportive Air Technology™ comforts your body while millions of air cells reduce pressure in sensitive areas. 4” FlexSpring technology core uniquely responsive featuring enhanced cradling performance and high support.
Intelligent SmartTemp™ AI
Trained with more than 1.5TB of data, SmartTemp is the signature feature of our technology. The fastest of its algorithms can make predictions on what you need as quickly as once per second for every second of your night in bed.
This artificial intelligence is the key to automatically adjust the Pod temperature to the most comfortable temperature for your body.
Episode transcript:
Matteo: 00:00 My name is Mateo. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Eight Sleep. We are the first sleep fitness company. We develop a technology that helps you improve your sleep. Quality. Sleep matters is one of the three pillars of health with exercise and nutrition. If you want to leave at healthier and longer lives, take care of your plate.
Chase: 00:21 Welcome back everyone. This is your number one source for inspiring content from people who are putting a focus to their passion and truly living a life ever forward conversations and messages that will take your fitness and nutrition and mindset to the next level. I am your host, chase churning. This is ever forward radio,
Chase: 00:56 This show is meant to help you reach your dreams. And I know that you will, but you won't get there without hitting the pillow first every night, right? And that's where today's sponsor at cure nutrition steps up to the plate with their recovery line and sleep products that have been carefully crafted with your daily reset in mind. And I particularly want to bring attention to my tried and true my old faithful for when I absolutely need and even want to get just the best quality night's sleep possible. Something that is going to help promote my complete deep and REM sleep cycles to get me waking up refreshed in non-drowsy every day, to help me get to sleep and stay asleep from something that is non-habit forming, which is crucial for me. So important. Something that I can rely on that as naturally source a very high quality herbal supplement.
Chase: 01:45 I am talking about the one and only Zen from cure the relaxation and sleep supplement. You can get yours and save up to 15% by simply heading to cure nutrition.com and using checkout code ever. Ford that's cured nutrition.com. Check out code ever Ford save 15% off of their Zen or any other highly rated high quality rooted in nature. Wellness supplements cured@nutrition.com. Check out code ever Ford to save 15%. The wo don't drift off into a dream land just yet. For me, gave me just a second, my friends, because you do not want to miss today's episode. Don't sleep through class today, everybody. All right. Hey, what's going on? I'm your host, chase you and welcome to ever Ford radio. And today I'm joined with entrepreneur athlete and fellow sleep junkie Matteo, Trent Shetty. I, I'm always excited to talk shop, especially when it comes to, you know, what it means to live a life over four and all of these little things that we can do and become aware of to just get 1% better.
Chase: 02:52 But if you've been listening to the show for a minute, then you know, how valuable and how much I love sleep, the science behind quantitative data qualitatively, you know how we feel so many things that are individual and unique to us and to, you know, what should be taken into consideration for when I go to sleep, when I wake up my caffeine cutoff time, the temperature in my room. Well, what if you could have a lot of information bounce back to you? What if you could have a mattress really work with you throughout the night in terms of temperature in terms of, well, I'm not going to give away at all. Okay. You definitely want to tune in today to learn about Mateo and his company eight sleep. This is well, it's a technology company. It is a sleep company. It is a mattress company.
Chase: 03:37 It is, it is sleep fitness, a term that Mateo, I don't know if he coined it, but I'm here for it. They have cooling and heating. They've got gentle ways to wake you up. Just there's so many things that can contribute passively. Once you get your baseline established to just getting finally that good night's sleep so that you can rest and recover and just go on living your life, sleep is so, so important. And if this is you definitely find value in today's message, you're gonna love it. And if you think somebody in your life, a coworker or friend can maybe use a little help in the sleep world, please just share this message out. That would mean the world to me, just send it to one person. And if you got any takeaways, any fun pieces of feedback, please don't hesitate to hit us up.
Chase: 04:23 You can always tag us on social @everforwardradio on Instagram. And without further ado, please join me in welcoming Matteo and eight sleep in all things, sleep fitness to ever afford radio. Welcome to the show. Well, Matteo officially welcome, and I am so excited to have you here on the show and to just like learn continuously what it means, you know, to have good sleep hygiene, good sleep health, and you know, all the other things I know we're going to dive into. And just the power that sleep has for us in our personal lives and our longevity in business. And the backstory really behind why creating a business like this was even important necessarily for you. But you know, before we dive into all the goodies, man, please introduce yourself. Who are you? And what are we here to talk about?
Matteo: 05:13 Yeah, sure. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Eight Sleep. We are the first sleep fitness company. We develop a technology that can improve your sleep performance and it will help you recover faster and better. And so today we'll talk about sleep what our technology does, but also what you can do on your own to just improve your sleep efficiency,
Chase: 05:36 Made some bold statements. They're the first company to, to what exactly I, to make sure I got the words, right.
Matteo: 05:43 We have the first asleep fitness company. So we think of sleep as a sort of fitness. And we develop a technology that improves your sleep, which is a bold statement, but is proven with hard data. So let's, let's define our terms out of the gate.
Chase: 05:58 What is sleep fitness? What does that mean?
Matteo: 06:01 Yeah, so I think leap in particular, in the eighties and the night, this was considered like something that, Oh, I just cut my sleep. I'm a stronger person and I'm a stronger or whatever. Well, instead our vision is that sleep is exactly like your fitness and that is why we call it slippage. As you need to take care of that. And in the same way you go to exercise every day or every other day to the gym for an hour, you need to sleep every single day between seven and nine hours to be fit and to be healthy that this live treatments,
Chase: 06:36 I don't disagree with you sleep for me over the years has been something that the more and more I prioritize it, the more and more I respect it. I get incredible returns on that, that ROI, you know? But I'm curious, what was the origin story of this? You were talking about, you know, not that long ago when sleep was kind of something that like I'll do what I'm dead kind of thing. What has been your personal experience of that changing over the years? And you know, how, why do you think?
Matteo: 07:08 Yeah, so, I mean, I was one of the people saying exactly that, right. My, my grandpa was a, was saying the same. But I have always been an athlete in particular, when I was a teenager, I was playing tennis tournament and ski racing. So I have always been into recover. And five years ago I started really looking into sleep because I was not understanding why do I have to sleep eight hours? Can I sleep six hours and get the same? And so I, I learned two things that I think could be interesting here. The first one is it's not written anywhere that you need to sleep eight hours, seven to nine is just what you usually need to get a certain amount of [inaudible]. And so our vision is eight sleep is that potentially we will compress the sleep in the future. So what if in 10 years from now you could sleep only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours,
Chase: 08:00 So less quantity, more quality I'm hearing. Okay.
Matteo: 08:03 Correct. Okay. Because at the end of the day, what you need is that amount of Ram and the, and right now our body is that inefficient. And it takes between seven and nine hours for an average person to get that amount of sleep. But it's not the, you need seven or eight or nine hours. If you are completely inefficient, maybe you need model. Yeah. At the same time, as there is much more evidence of the impact that sleep has on your health. So if you look at health, health is based on three pillars. So recently there is exercise and the reason nutrition and actually sleep is really the foundation. Because if you start sleeping two hours a night, there is no nutrition. There is no exercise.
Chase: 08:52 I, you actually said things in a kind of a hierarchy I have as well. It's it's for me sleep nutrition, exercise. That's kind of how I now live my life. And before, you know, like, no, like, no matter what, even if it's the last thing I do at night at 9:00 PM, I'm going to go get my workout, or I'm just going to scarf down though. I miss my calories by, you know, 800 or something like that. I'm going, I'm going to go train. I'm going to get a workout in no matter how tired I am or the time. And I'm going to just consume a bunch of food. Now, I'm making a little bit of a generalization here. Also, I'm speaking about my personal self. So I don't want a bunch of trolls coming out and yelling at me about what I'm saying, but is that the right way to go about respecting sleep? You know, should it be, should it really be kind of a reprioritization, no matter what, like, no matter what, like at a certain time you need to be sleeping a set of training, no matter what you need to be sleeping instead of eating more calories can you kind of walk us through like why each of those are important and maybe why sleep should be higher up on people's totem pole, so to speak?
Matteo: 09:58 Yeah. I always think sleep should come first for a couple of reasons. First is the easiest, right? Compared to training. And so at least make sure that every day you hit, that is the simple, the simplest of the three second. If you sleep well, you will feel energized as there will be, or mono changes in your body that will help you to eat less or eat healthier. And second, because you have more energy, you will be more prone to go and exercise that day, right? If, if you go to train at 11:00 PM, just because you want to exercise that day, then you will look through this new plate. Probably you will struggle to fall asleep because you just reactivated your body. And so maybe you fall asleep two hours later, and the following day, you wake up and at that point you are sleep deprived and you will start craving bad food. You will not have energy to performance work. And probably you will now less inclined to go and exercise again.
Chase: 11:01 Yeah, you're, you're really, you're setting yourself up to make decisions that maybe your higher self wouldn't and you, you said some key things there, it's your hormones begin to get out of whack, right? You know, you have an imbalance, some things that are going to lead to satiety that are going to lead to your sense of being hungry or full or not, you're then fluctuating with blood sugar levels. You know, then on top of all that, and I'll even go as far as saying, if that's how you choose to kind of prioritize fitness, sleep nutrition, and all these things in your life, and you're willing to always make those sacrifices when it comes to your health and wellness, then that's probably spilling over into other areas of your life as well. You're willing to make other sacrifices because you think this needs to be done first, but you don't really pause to realize how things spill over was that kind of origin story to kind of tap into your personal side a little bit. Cause you know, you said being an athlete your whole life, I doubt you had this foresight the whole time. I'm sure you were making sacrifices for your sport for your training, right?
Matteo: 12:05 Yeah, absolutely. And what, what you understand as an athlete is sleep is great and fundamental for your performance the following day, but it also has a major impact on making sure that you get, you don't get injured another because usually you will never get injured, but sleep is correlated to your recovery. And the recovery has a direct coordination with the amount or the type of injures. And so that is why right now there are metrics like HRV heart rate variability,
Chase: 12:37 Shout out. I track mine right here on whoop. Yeah.
Matteo: 12:42 HRV is so important to really know how hard you should push today. If you want to work out and HRV is strictly correlated to your sleep quality. And Hmm.
Chase: 12:52 Can you walk us through that a little bit more? Can you go a little bit deeper on on that correlation between HRV and sleep quality? How it, you know, how do you describe and define HRV and how do you define and describe sweet, sweet quality sleep quality?
Matteo: 13:08 Yeah. So the, the best time to look at HRV, it should be comparing your HIV during the first deep sleep phase with your HRV in the latest deep sleep phase that Delta is indicative of your recovery during the night, that is the optimal way to look at your, your HRV. Then you can track HRV during the whole day, but as you can imagine, every day is different and then it differently get more tired. And so if you want to look at your HIV really on a daily basis, that will be the perfect time. And that will be the perfect combination of metric. In terms of quantity, I mean, quantity for sleep is always a tricky word because at the end of the day, as we were saying at the beginning, it's not really about the quantity is at the same time. So you need a certain type of quantity, a certain amount of quantity to then achieve the polity, which is what really matters. And so the, the end goal is to try to get around 20% deep sleep and 20% of time that is the bottom line. Like sleep is the part that we would like to compress because four hours is just in a, in, in efficiency in our body. But as long as you are able to hit those percentages percentages, keep on ramp, then you should be good,
Chase: 14:32 Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep is so important. And if you've been tuning into the show for really the past year, year and a half, you have probably heard me talk about how, how I have prioritize or rather reprioritize my sleep as like the one thing from my personal wellness hierarchy, not only how much more rested I am the next day, but just, it seems to me that lead domino for me, for my productivity, for my energy, for my focus, for my vitality, it's that lead domino. That just, if I can square that away, it seems to just really nine times out of 10, or I should say six days out of the week, six days out of seven, just knocked down all the rest of the stuff, not to say it does it all. But when I treat that right and I respect my sleep, it's like, everything else gets respected and everything else is just in
Speaker 4: 15:23 Alignment. It truly is
Chase: 15:25 That powerful. That's when we recover, that's when we dream, that's when we rest and reset. And that is why I have loved, loved, loved, loved adding in a supplement for when I need a little help when I want to make sure I'm getting the best night's sleep, best quality sleep possible. I've been adding in something that is going to be non-habit forming that is going to help me get to sleep and stay asleep. That is going to combat stress through clinically proven doses of things like reishi and magnesium. Tell me lower cortisol and to get into deep REM sleep cycles, to get to sleep and to stay asleep. And of course, of course, I'm talking about the homeys over cured nutrition. And of course I'm talking about their Zen relaxation and sleep aid. It is sourced from all natural ingredients gluten-free and vegan THC free.
Chase: 16:14 It includes 20 milligrams of broad spectrum CBD packed with functional mushrooms CBD and an adaptogen blend. Something that I can grab when I need, when I want. And I don't have to rely on it. That's the power of this stuff. Again, not habit forming. I wake up refreshed non-drowsy I can use as much or as little as I want. If I need a little bit of some help, I'll grab maybe one capsule, but if I absolutely need that quality sleep best believe I'm getting two to three and down the hatch, about 30 minutes to an hour before when I want to actually be asleep, I love this stuff. It is tried and true wellness rooted in nature, and you
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Speaker 4: 17:34 Oh,
Chase: 17:34 You say it's kind of your split when it comes to tracking. Cause right out of the gate, we've been talking a lot of quantitative ways to track, to monitor, to look at this stuff, to really kind of guide our decision making process when it comes to, you know, our nutrition, our training, our sleep, what is your opinion on qualitative? What is your opinion on and like how do you personally kind of tap into look, you know, my, my tracker, my, my bed, my app, whatever is saying one thing, but I'm feeling something different. How do you kind of, how do you navigate those waters?
Matteo: 18:09 Yeah. For sleep only, or for all the three of the three dimensions. So there's an exercise and nutrition. So for sleep, obviously, I mean, how you feel is at the end of the day is the most important thing, right? How you feel in the morning. What I have personally seen is if I hit certain percentages in particular, on, on deep sleep, but also in REM there is a direct correlation with how much, how I feel. If I get more than 18% deep sleep, I usually feel good if I'm above 20%, I feel like great. But obviously a qualitative feedback is probably the most important. And that is a reason why a lot of sleep trackers struggle because most of the people, yeah, they look at these data for a couple of days, but then they say, you know what? I know how I feel.
Matteo: 19:04 I don't need you to tell, I know my body, I know my body. And I know these, I know myself much better than, than you. And so there is where we have a different approach because for us, the data is not the end point, but it's just the starting point. Do we then use thermoregulation based on your data to improve your sleep performance? What do you mean by thermal regulation? So we heat and cool your body during the night to help you fall asleep faster, get more deep sleep and get more Ram. So for us, the data is the baseline is okay, this is how your body is functioning. And based on what in real time is happening in your body, we make adjustments while you are asleep to improve your sleep performance. Wow. But instead Moses. Yeah. And that is how a lot of people, even today I tweeted about that, there was a review of the pod, our technology, there is a person who just posted a tweet about his group data. And with in the group, data is being shown that he's got, the more deep sleep is getting less disturbances and a more restful sleep. So there is an improvement in his sleep across the board, and it's not even as, or our data showing it, but it's Whoa. Wow.
Chase: 20:26 Okay. Amazing. Yeah.
Matteo: 20:28 The same with Dora. So there was another customer a few months ago that posted his zip graph from aura. And he was showing that since when he started using the pod and thermoregulation, so the cooling and the temperature adjustment, he's still sleeping creased, the amount of deep sleep he gets per night. Yeah.
Chase: 20:50 Or ring though, they've been in the game for a long time. Yeah. It's we have all these tools and trackers, you know, Apple watches. I'm double-dipping I wear my whoop. I wear my Apple watch. That's a YouTube, you know, and then we've got, you know, things like aura ring. We've got a lot of technology that has progressed over the years to give us these numbers, to give us this kind of biofeedback to help us better make decisions on how we do know our body. What's your opinion on the technology overall? Do you still think we have a lot of room to grow when it comes to really trusting and how accurate is this data, you know, should we be, should we have all the things, all the devices to kind of like pool our own average? Like what's your take on the technology side?
Matteo: 21:36 Yeah. I think there's still a lot of room. I would say we're at 30%. Wow. 30 and achieve. Yeah. And in particular, on the medical grade, accuracy is where you will see all these devices, including the party, improving a lot. They will all become medical grade devices. It will be able to track our heart rate, our respiration, our temperature, and our sleep in real time. So going to the hospital will be something that you need for a surgery, but for body tracking you will be able to use these devices. And this is really coming in three to five years. So certain areas like heartbreak, where the accuracy is already pretty good in our case, compared to a medical grade device, we are within one heartbeat per minute. Wow. So, yeah, so, and I'm sure most of the other devices are reasonably good as well.
Matteo: 22:32 Respiration will be the second one that will be nailed compared to a medical grade device and then sleep sleep is usually the, the harvest, because the best way to measure your sleep will be through brainwaves. And so you should use a Sam thing on your, on your forehead in order to monitor the brainwaves and into the brainwaves, you can distinguish very clearly with medical-grade accuracy, deep sleep and REM and light sleep what everyone else is doing it right now needs. We are trying to infer detective sleep stages based on other metrics like heart rate or movement. And that's why sometimes accuracy maybe is not comparable yet to a medical grade device.
Chase: 23:20 It's funny you say that. I actually it just goes to show, like I said earlier, I'm always looking at sleep stuff and I'm always being targeted with ads for, you know, mattresses and sheets and, you know, sleep where technology and all this stuff. And I saw a company pop up a couple of days ago and it was a sleep monitoring headband, and I didn't think anything of it. I was like, ah, you know, I got my sleep routine, my bedtime routine. I crank down the temperature, know I cut out caffeine. I, I got my monitoring devices here. That's just some gimmick while actually I got some homework to do. I had no idea that monitoring brainwaves was actually, if we really want to dive into the weeds of quantification of sleep measurement and sleep health that's, that's kind of the King. Huh?
Matteo: 24:03 The reason why. So there was a company that was doing these, I think in the early two thousands, it was called Theo. And they raised a lot of money and they were pretty accurate. The, the issue is people don't want to wear the thing. Yeah.
Chase: 24:19 Yeah. It's not that sexy, right? Yeah. Not, yeah.
Matteo: 24:21 It's not sexy. It's not comfortable. And and so even for us, sometimes, you know, we need to wear it to just to do comparative studies. Sure. And, and it's a nightmare because you really don't want to wear it. Yeah. And that is what is blocking that type of technology, which otherwise we'll have already a beach.
Chase: 24:45 Yeah. I can remember years ago I was going through a I was questioning whether or not I had sleep apnea. I went through a sleep study, you know, in the hospital, hooked up to wires and leads and I'm in a hospital bed. And I'm like, how really accurate is this data going to be? Because I'm not in my own home. I don't ha I'm not in nothing is the same. I've got all these wires and stuff hooked up to me. I can't roll over. I can't really just sleep naturally. So how really reliable is this data? So going from, you know, an eight, nine, however many point lead head, man, and in a hospital to having a band at home, it is, it's an advancement, but it's still, it's not that comfortable. It's not that sexy, but I do see, you know, they have grown a lot, but still some room for improvement, but then it just comes down to probably, well, how much really information do you want to know?
Chase: 25:38 And that's where I know, you know, your products, eight sleep here provide some of that information as well. So not only, you know, let's kind of let's shift gears and go there. So really what is this product? What is it, you know, just, it's more than just a, a new mattress. That's, I'm assuming, you know, the cleanest, the healthiest, it's got all of these things that we've expected mattresses to be, but then it has some data trackers in it. Emma, am I understanding correctly? So, you know, how is, how is your company providing, you know, kind of twofold solution here?
Matteo: 26:09 Yup. So our technology, the pod comes in in two forms, right? One is the whole mattress or you buy a mattress and it gets shipped to your door, or you can buy only the Thermo cover, which is a cover that you install onto any mattress. You can retrofit any mattress you have, let's say you don't want to change yours, but you want to move from Danville mattress to a smartphone. The technology does a couple of different things. The first one is thermoregulation. Temperature is the biggest factor impacting sleep, quality, outside sleep, medical resources. And what we do is we control the temperature of each side of the bed. You can set the temperature at whatever temperature you like, or you can let our machine learning and our algos adjust the temperature for you during the night, the results can be up to 20%. The more deep sleep you can fall asleep up to 20% faster and you can also get the more around. Wow. Yes. So pretty impactful. And you can read about these even on why we sleep the book from Matthew Walker at the Berkeley professor, but there is a bunch of clinical studies that they talk about the importance of thermoregulation and each side of the bad can have a different temperature. So if he's living with a partner and you have different preferences, we are going to solve the problem. And the temperature can range between 55 degrees and one degree, Whoa,
Chase: 27:36 That's pretty okay. Yeah.
Matteo: 27:40 Rooney called really warm and everything, anything in the mingle, right? The way we adjust temperature is based on your metrics. And so the mattress that technology is like, if you were sleeping on a stack of sprints, we are able to pick anything about your habits, right? Anything about your respiration, including sleep apnea in the future, and also everything about your sleep based on these data, we can adjust them personally, real time to maximize your sleep performance.
Chase: 28:11 That's pretty impressive. I know temperature is huge. I'm really curious as to why you all chose it, allow to go with that high. I understand we were talking about the, kind of the uniqueness of each individual. You know, we, we do need to apply different things because we are different human beings, but one tent that seems really, really high. Like why would somebody ever need or want to go that high of a temperature to get good quality sleep?
Matteo: 28:36 Yeah. The reality is no one slips up one time. And all of a sudden the 55, I think only 1% of our users slips up 65 degrees, which is the coldest setting.
Chase: 28:49 Really curious about that. That would be me. I want it cold. I want to Chile for sure.
Matteo: 28:53 Yeah. But the point is from a technical standpoint, when you designed the Thermo engine you need to optimize for cooling because it's the hardest to be achieved. And at that point, as you optimize for cooling them, you're also able to achieve those one 10 on, on, on heating. But it's extremely unlikely that anyone women tend to sleep warmer than men. But in general, temperature preferences changed based on your metabolism and based on your age, on your fat percentage and just personal preferences if you had alcohol or not, if you train in the few hours before going to bed or not, all these factors have an impact.
Chase: 29:35 Oh, well, they have an impact for sure. But are you saying with with your product, you can, can you actually take that into consideration? Can you say, Hey, I just did a workout. Hey, I've had alcohol. Like, can you actually customize that sleep experience to that level?
Matteo: 29:50 Yeah. You will assume you will be able to do it soon. So based on our call right now, we already adjust temperature automatically for you based on weather and temperature in the bedroom. And so if we see a change, we send you a notification and we automatically recommend the new temperature setting. Let's say there is a heat wave. Your bad is going to ping you on your phone or is a heatwave. We suggest you adjust the temperature on these to maximize the performance and the same will happen with yeah, we are connected to Apple health. So in the future, we will be able to see that you just work out an hour ago. And so probably you're know you're still dissipating heat or going to bed. Then we might recommend you a call there.
Chase: 30:34 That is extremely impressive. That is extremely impressive. I think what I'm liking, what I'm hearing here also is that you were, I think a lot of devices kind of missed the Mark and I understand like you create something unique to you, proprietary technology, whatever, or you make multiple devices. And of course from the business side, you want everybody to get all the things, right. And I'm hearing that you're actually allowing people to use your product, but they're also most likely using other things as well. You know, you said Apple health, their smartphone, their Apple watch. So it's almost like, Hey, why would we punish or reduce anybody's ability to kind of tap into optimization, sleep health, wellness, if, you know, if not reward them, you know, look, they're already doing these other things. Let's just make it all more, you know, one seamless experience, right?
Matteo: 31:25 Sure. Yeah. I mean, we are in a lie of all these trackers, right? Because our value proposition doesn't end with data. It starts with data. And so if you use [inaudible] or if you use an Apple watch, keep using it and keep tracking your sleep with that, then we are the only ones who can really improve your sleep to have more regulations. So we are very different for that, but we still use data, but for a different purpose.
Chase: 31:52 Amazing, amazing. I want to ask you a question that's actually has been kind of top of mind for me over the years, as I've, you know, I've gone through a variety of different mattresses. And like I said, as I've explored my own kind of sleep fitness performance level you know, I've gone from standard coil, I've gone to Tempur-Pedic, I've gone to smart, I've gone to cooling pads, have gone to cooling sheets, bamboo all of these things. And while it may be contributing to my personal sleep, hygiene, sleep, health, sleep fitness, I'm now learning that a lot of these things, you know, are extremely processed. There's a lot of other chemicals and things inside the mattress that, like I said, maybe helping me get more quality sleep, but possibly could be detrimental to my health and wellness in some other ways, you know, long-term how have you all kind of that? What, what's your, what's your take on that and how, how are you making sure that this is not only helping someone's sleep fitness, but not possibly making anything worse for them?
Matteo: 32:50 Yeah. I mean, it's a good point. And obviously we will comply with all the regulations that, that applies to us, but think about, you know, wearing an Apple watch or wearing your group, it's really the same thing, how you use products and use, you know, fabric or some type of plastic that shouldn't shouldn't hurt like any other electronic device. And your case in the case of a mattress, you put your bed sheets over that. So there is also that we use fabrics that have been heavily tested. But yeah, we didn't see any major impact on, on, on that really like anything else that you're wearing, even your headphones, right? Yeah,
Chase: 33:40 Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you could go down the rabbit hole of, you know, wired. Everything only are no electronic devices, no Bluetooth, no 5g, you know, and that's a whole part of this process, right? We, we have to make choices for our fitness or nutrition or sleep for ourselves, our relationships, our jobs. We have to make things that make sense for our definition of success, our, our pursuit, our goals. But, and we understand that may feed that, but just being conscious of saying yes to one thing usually means saying no to another increasing one thing here may, may mean decreasing something else, but then just along the way, you kind of just fine tune and optimize and move forward. Like I was just saying, you know, I, I do, it's like you take sometimes in this wellness journey, right. We feel like we're taking one step forward, but then two steps backwards. And a part of that truly is I'm sure you would agree is just kind of catching up with the times. We don't know what we don't know. We don't know, you know, all how possibly some things are affecting us or what is doing to the environment. But what we can do is just, you know, pay attention enough to, to change things along the way. Would you agree?
Matteo: 34:45 Yeah, absolutely. And there is where not quantifying results and monitoring them. It's super important, but that, that's what I do in all the products that I tried first start testing it. And then you decide if it's worth the effort, but it could be even a small effort, like recharging the product. That's why 60% of the customers now 80% of the cost or something like that stops using a wearable within six months, something like that, right? The asphalt becomes to match compared to the value. And in our specific case, we have data, right? Almost 90% of our cast, a improved sleep before you were asking me about this subjective perception. So almost 90% of our customers purely from a subjective, qualitative perspective, they report better sleep. And then we also have heart every day. It's a, from a quantitative standpoint, but the way we design our products since from the beginning was to be the most seamless thing you could think of, right? We don't change your habits. We don't ask you anything, keep going to bed as you did for the past years, but don't change anything in your routine, but this time magically, it will start getting better sleep. That was an obsession I had since day one, because we are so busy that even charging a device, if the device is not extremely valuable, for me becomes annoying.
Chase: 36:08 Oh, I'm sure how many times have you, how many times have I, or anybody listening like left, not one, their Apple watch or not worn whatever device that we got to help us, but because quote, it's too much work to just remember to charge it, you know? Yeah. That's so true.
Matteo: 36:25 And here there is no work, nothing. It just happened on its own. And that's why we have these things insane retention where people obviously keep using our products every single day for six to 10 years.
Chase: 36:38 Hmm. Amazing. Wow. So let's go there. You know, the entrepreneur journey, I'm always curious as to, you know, how and why did somebody decide to actually create something they recognize a problem, or they just had a horrible or great experience and want to just make it better? What was it for you? How did this baby, you know, kind of come about
Matteo: 36:58 Everything's? So first I was the typical entrepreneur working long hours, trying to sacrifice, sleep and compressing it and looking into that, then why do I need to sleep a power? So I started talking to some doctors to helping sailors crossing the war alone. And because there was this concept of polyphasic sleep where you just leave two hours and then nap, and then you wake up and then leave two hours. So I really tried to see, can I sleep less? And that is where I understood that Elon Musk is taking us to Mars, but we still spend a third of our life on a piece of dumb form and wiser is not technology and having my recovery and fleet. And I want to build that. And that is how we start.
Chase: 37:47 So you are like the Elon Musk of sleep, the Elon Musk of mattresses
Matteo: 37:53 That he may
Chase: 37:54 Be physically taking us to Mars, but you'll be taking us to Mars and outer space in our dreams. Right. By getting quality sleep, actually getting into deep sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I'm also curious someone who loves this so much and has made it their business. What is your kind of sleep routine? What is your bedtime ritual? What is your sleep fitness look like? Walk us through, you know, a night in the life, a day in the life, please.
Matteo: 38:19 Yeah. So I tend to go to sleep quite early. It's embarrassing, but yeah, by nine 30 to 10 by 10 I'm asleep. Okay.
Chase: 38:29 That's not bad at all.
Matteo: 38:30 Yeah, not too terrible. Yeah. So before I was waking up at six at the time, so I was getting my eight hours since March I started sleeping nine hours. And it was amazing the way I feel or my biometrics HRV improved 14%. And so now on average, wow. And so now to go to sleep earlier, like nine 30 and I wake up at six 30 because there is no commute. And I get started working with tuna, right. So I tried to get these nine hours every single day. I usually start slowing down before, so the, the lights in my house, they start switching to orange before and by nine 30, all the lights are off and this is an automatic routine, so I won't do anything. And so I use these also to really almost set the time on my mind of what is happening
Chase: 39:26 In those environments to use a little bit.
Matteo: 39:28 Yeah. I use Phillips. You, you create a routine and at seven 30, they switched to orange at eight. They've been down at eight 30 and nine and nine 30 there. I always eat, I'm obsessed with the temperature of my bed. I keep optimizing our, our speed to that. I also use plugs when I was sleeping a very completely, you know silent place. It's pitch dark because I use some black curtains. One sort of twice a week. I take a melatonin usually during the weekend to even relax a bit more. I take magnesium because it helps with the non salts. I use the NormaTec boots before going to bed. I don't actually know them. They are compression boots put on your legs. And yeah, I love them to relax before going to bed. It's like a massage.
Chase: 40:23 I see a lot of like endurance athletes use those, you know, a lot of like, it's a great recovery tool. Absolutely.
Matteo: 40:29 Yeah. A couple of hours before going to bed. So before dinner, I take a hot cold shower often. So you keep switching, you do 30 seconds, 30 seconds cold. And that creates a micro thermal shock with how to relax. And then I wake up with our vibration alarm. There is a smart alarm in our bed and it changes the temperature, accelerating your heart rate before you wake up. So you get out of the program. And then at the same time, it vibrates and very gently. So I wake up without any noise without any sound, but just naturally
Chase: 41:07 I love that. Actually, I would love to let's explore that area a little bit more. Another little sleep hack that I've had, that I've found a great ROI on for over, over a year, year and a half. I, unless I need to catch an early flight or something, I don't set an alarm anymore. I have my, I go to bed at this time. I wake up at this time. And that was one of the things that I learned most of actually how detrimental to your stress levels to just, you know, your flight or fight kind of responses. How detrimental waking up to a like hard sound can be, and actually can disrupt sleep where maybe if you actually just slept a couple more minutes and just naturally woke up, you would be totally fine. Walk us through this, this kind of gentle, awake process that you have, you know, what's the reasoning behind it and, you know, how's, it actually contributing to our sleep health versus just, you know, not starting the day off with a rude alarm clock. You know,
Matteo: 42:04 That is exactly your point. So you don't want the alarm to goes off for while you are in, in the rack or even in the second part of why is that? Because you will just feel drugged game, right? You're you're, your body was doing something else and you're taking it away from that and just say, Oh, now you need to be ready. And, and so your, your, your brain was processing a different faction and that is why you feel drowsy. And then maybe you are in a bad mood, but just because of that. And so what we created is a, is a smart alarm, right? That make sure that by the time you need to wake up, you're not in any of these sleep stages. And the way we do it is through temperature. And so for example, I who my, my bed as much as possible, what happens is by cooling the environment, your heart rate accelerates because it needs to keep your body warm Riley needs to know to, to start running the body in order to maintain the, the perfect body temperature. In that way you substantially almost wake up. It's like, when it's too cold in the middle of the night, you know, you wake up because you are helping yourself. We just do it through technology. And if you don't wake up all it through temperature at the set times, there is also vibration that starts to very gently and it becomes increasingly more evident. So you wake up, even if you have to catch a flight in this way, you're a hundred percent weaker because there is no sound.
Chase: 43:40 I love that. I love that. Honestly, I think in a world that, you know, is, is bombarding us by ways that we think, and probably are in many ways, helping us through, you know, notifications, texts, alarms, buzzes, vibration sounds, colors. You know, we have all these ways to quote, you know, hack biohack, you know, sometimes, you know, it may be too much, there may be a softer, gentler way that is going to be more respectful of the natural bodily processes that will still get us that end result we're after. Or at least just make it. So we don't wake up on the wrong side of the bed and hate the world. Right,
Matteo: 44:18 Exactly. Yeah.
Chase: 44:20 Where do you kind of see the future of, you know, I'll say sleep technology, sleep health going, you, you definitely have been in this for a minute. So you probably have an understanding of where, where, and how it started, what's going on currently, but where do you see it going? Where do you want it to go? Like, where do you still see the biggest room for improvement maybe in in our sleep fitness?
Matteo: 44:43 Yeah. So in, in our vision, there's are two things that we will achieve first. We will compress sleep. So how can we sleep less, but achieve more rest, sleep only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours Saquon, because you still go to bed for six hours, which is a meaningful amount of time. How can we make your bed and medical-grade device in the future, you will not go for a sleep session to the TAC. If you have the popping out. Now, it will just happen from, from your house, from your so devices like ours, they will be able to predict strokes. They will be able to predict if you're getting sick. If we can introduce the sensors, we envision, we might be able to monitor your organs while you sleep and do a sort of MRI, but without the, the, the, the x-ray, you know, because you couldn't take an MRI every single day, but there are other of technology like ultrasound that you will do it every single day. And you could really do a, a deep checkup of your body. So save compression and achieving Medi-Cal grade accuracy.
Chase: 46:00 Wow. That's a quite a challenge, quite a vision. And to that, I'll kind of ask maybe a question. A lot of people might be thinking, or, or maybe you've already heard, is this too much? Are we, you know, is there gonna come a point of diminishing returns? Are we going to maybe monitor something in, get a false positive, or just learn something that maybe, maybe just knowing could be more detrimental? Are we ever going to reach a point of diminishing return with this kind of technology and understanding ourselves? Do you think
Matteo: 46:34 Two things? I mean, first again, if we go back to the point of being seamless, all these will have kind of, without asking you anything, we will not ask you to, to do anything, nothing to charge you, nothing to where you will just flip back there and know if there isn't anything wrong with your body. So wouldn't you be happy to, to save your life and to know in advance, if there is there is anything wrong. Personally on my side, as an entrepreneur, one of the things that excites me the most is to save lives and here we can save lives. It was the dad that for one of our employees who died of a stroke in the morning, that that shouldn't happen to me. And, and so I want to solve that problem too,
Chase: 47:21 Not a bad problem to want to solve. I can definitely get on board and support that as well. Oh, well, I, I thank you so much for coming on here today. And as we begin to kind of wrap up, I just want to remind the listeners here that I'm going to sound very biased. I'm sure Mateo is too. But I've gotten so much from prioritizing my sleep by just, just even the simple thing of all right, what can I do in the morning to set myself for success during the day, so that I'm actually tired and can fall asleep? Just how can I make sure that I go to bed at the same time, you can do a lot of things and this quantified self world biohacking world. But when I brought more attention and awareness to my sleep, it helped so much helped energy focus, de-stressing weight, loss, weight gain, because it truly is where all of the magic happens for everything else, for managing hormones, managing stress levels for, for dreaming, for getting ideas for building muscle, for recovering, for, for being able to step into the next day, your strongest, most refreshed, best self.
Chase: 48:28 So any final words, Mateo, you would say to someone who is, you know, on the fence about changing anything in their sleep fitness or sleep routine, you know, what can we say that you haven't said that it's just going to be like, this is how important sleep is.
Matteo: 48:43 If, if you care about your health and if you care about your longevity, sleep is one of the three pillars of health is the easiest to manage because it requires less effort. And it has connects, there is a 10 X right on, on your health because it can have any impact on parking so they can have any impact on your blood pressure can have an impact on your cardiovascular system. HRV have three progressed. It has an impact on the food that you crave. And so you could lose weight by sitting back there and clearly has an impact on your performance. If you want to work out very hard during the day,
Chase: 49:22 Well said, well said, great summary. And the final question I ask everybody is, you know, we kind of have three pillars here at ever forward, three kind of main categories of life many other things, but if I only had to pick three, it would be fitness, nutrition, and mindset, kind of these three areas that I say when we bring heightened in attention and awareness to help us live a life ever forward to help us just, you know, pursue tomorrow. I make maybe 20, 21, I'll have to add in officially that fourth pillar of sleep. It's that important. But what does it mean to you? You know, kind of just the constant momentum, the pursuit of human optimization and, you know, no matter, no matter what comes before us, how would you say that you live a life ever forward? What does that mean to you?
Matteo: 50:07 I mean, in terms of pillars are really, for me sleep fitness and nutrition. I think these are all the three things. If you manage them well we will have a major impact on your health and your longevity. So I try from a health perspective, I designed my life around that. And you know, is the 80 or living a healthier and longer life. I have this concept of lifespan and health span. Lifespan is how long you leave to live 80 years or hundred 20 years. But health span is also, it's really important to be healthy until the last day of your life. So you can enjoy the flight. My grandma stopped working when no 20 years before dying. We don't want to go to that. And so that is why taking care of these three pillars is so important. It's not even the lifespan if they have.
Chase: 50:58 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the nail on the head there, you had it longevity. Yeah. We want to live as long as possible and have as much quality of life as possible. Yeah. And get your sleep. Absolutely. Well, Mateo, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I, of course, I'm going to have all of your information and you know, eight sleep information here for everybody to check out. And if you've been listening, watching the show for any length of time, you know, how important and viable sleep is to me, and I'm always trying to bring the latest and greatest. So you guys definitely want to check out eight sleep. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Ma'am
Matteo: 51:30 My pleasure. Thank you for having me
Chase: 51:33 For more information on everything you just heard and make sure to check this episode, show notes or head to everforwardradio.com.