Unlock the secrets to a holistic fitness journey with the CEOs of HYROX, Christian Toetzke, and CENTR, Andrew Sugerman, as we discuss the transformation of at-home training and competitive fitness landscapes. We discuss the fusion of mental health, nutrition, and community with rigorous training protocols. My conversation with these industry innovators reveals how their platforms are not only elevating athletic performance but also making wellness strategies accessible to the masses, inspiring a new wave of health-conscious individuals.

Andrew and Christian offer a personal exploration of health and nutrition tailored to your unique needs. We tackle the complex psychological elements that drive our fitness motivation and the importance of nutritional tools in every athlete's arsenal, regardless of their level. Discover how CENTR and HYROX are coming together to use advanced technologies and comprehensive training programs to revolutionize the way we approach nutrition, breaking down economic barriers and creating inclusive fitness communities in the process. We also discuss the integration of AI in training and the powerful connection between mental and physical fitness.

This episode isn't just a conversation; it's an invitation to be part of a global movement that values resilience, mindset development, and the joy of living a life that constantly moves forward. Join us for an engaging look at upcoming global fitness events and take the next step in your wellness journey with wisdom from the vanguards of today's health revolution.

Follow CENTR @centrfit

Follow HYROX @hyroxamerica

Follow Chase @chase_chewning


In this episode we discuss...

(00:00) Elevating Fitness Training and Performance

(10:39) Personalized Approach to Health and Nutrition

(17:41) Navigating Physically Challenging Fitness Events

(32:43) Creativity and Innovation in Fitness

(44:16) Using AI to Advance Fitness, Nutrition & Feedback

(49:33) Mental and Physical Fitness Synergy

(54:28) Accessible Functional Fitness and Mindset Development

(01:00:28) Upcoming Global Fitness Events You Can Join


Episode resources:

EFR 788: What Happens When You Combine Chris Hemsworth's Training App with the World Series of Fitness Racing with CENTR and HYROX

Unlock the secrets to a holistic fitness journey with the CEOs of HYROX, Christian Toetzke, and CENTR, Andrew Sugerman, as we discuss the transformation of at-home training and competitive fitness landscapes. We discuss the fusion of mental health, nutrition, and community with rigorous training protocols. My conversation with these industry innovators reveals how their platforms are not only elevating athletic performance but also making wellness strategies accessible to the masses, inspiring a new wave of health-conscious individuals.

Andrew and Christian offer a personal exploration of health and nutrition tailored to your unique needs. We tackle the complex psychological elements that drive our fitness motivation and the importance of nutritional tools in every athlete's arsenal, regardless of their level. Discover how CENTR and HYROX are coming together to use advanced technologies and comprehensive training programs to revolutionize the way we approach nutrition, breaking down economic barriers and creating inclusive fitness communities in the process. We also discuss the integration of AI in training and the powerful connection between mental and physical fitness.

This episode isn't just a conversation; it's an invitation to be part of a global movement that values resilience, mindset development, and the joy of living a life that constantly moves forward. Join us for an engaging look at upcoming global fitness events and take the next step in your wellness journey with wisdom from the vanguards of today's health revolution.

Follow CENTR @centrfit

Follow HYROX @hyroxamerica

Follow Chase @chase_chewning


In this episode we discuss...

(00:00) Elevating Fitness Training and Performance

(10:39) Personalized Approach to Health and Nutrition

(17:41) Navigating Physically Challenging Fitness Events

(32:43) Creativity and Innovation in Fitness

(44:16) Using AI to Advance Fitness, Nutrition & Feedback

(49:33) Mental and Physical Fitness Synergy

(54:28) Accessible Functional Fitness and Mindset Development

(01:00:28) Upcoming Global Fitness Events You Can Join


Episode resources:


00:00 - Speaker 1 I'm the biggest proponent of like bringing all the things to the plate because they all matter. You can train really hard and you can get great results and then you can then focus on nutrition. But there are some, I think, missing components that a lot of people overlook that matter. What else are you all bringing to the table? What else should be brought to the table that you think most people overlook?

00:22 - Speaker 3 For those individuals it's how to help them find themselves, help them find that mindset, help them understand what their potential is. And then I think for others it's how to then elevate that. For center it's been very much this notion of how do you train to perform better. But since the pandemic was over.

00:39 - Speaker 2 That has to give us a real push because, exactly suddenly, you had this feeling of everyone like oh my God, I want to get out, I want to meet people, I want to go to events now, because I haven't done it for two years.

00:49 - Speaker 3 We're looking at all the ways that data can be captured. So there's biomarkers, you know camera-based tech that can sense movement. How do you take that data and then, as close to real time as possible, feedback?

00:59 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hey. What's up everybody? Welcome back to EverFord Radio. In this episode, I am sitting down with the current CEOs of Hirox and Center.

01:16 You might recognize those brands because they are taking over the fitness competition and at-home training scene. A lot of you probably know Center from being Chris Hemsworth company, this incredible app and at-home workout platform that really crushed during the pandemic times. It was something that delivered really a lot of what Chris's training secrets in terms of fitness, nutrition, mental health, all the ways that he was staying at the top of his game for such incredible roles like Thor. He put into this app and has been delivering to people at their homes year after year now, and Hirox is taking the fitness competition world by storm. Like I said, these guys are blowing up all over major cities all over the world and I had the pleasure of sitting down with the two guys running the ships at both. Andrew says quote as a brand that is focused on making holistic wellness and fitness as accessible to as many as possible, the partnership with Hirox perfectly aligns with their ethos. Hirox has created a highly regarded, competitive fitness platform that is globally accessible, and we're excited to work with them to bring our innovative approach to product design and premium digital content to their competitions and community.

02:31 What does this mean for you? Well, a few different things. If you are someone looking to get as prepared as possible for a fitness competition, such as Hirox, center is gonna be bringing the best training protocols that you can get at your fingertips. And now, if you wanna maybe take what you've been doing on Center or an online training platform and put it to the test, you're gonna be learning exactly what it takes to compete and to have fun, but, more importantly, to connect with others in the athletic mindset of all ranges, of all ages, of all skill sets, and everybody is there performing for their own personal wins, then I encourage you to check out what Hirox has to offer. I don't know if you're gonna see me out there anytime soon, but I gotta say, when worlds collide in the fitness, nutrition, wellness communities and what people do so well independently, when they do it together with others that are just crushing there little slice of the pie, I am so intrigued, so excited and look out world because, who knows, this might be enough to get me and have some fun and run a course, maybe 2024. We'll see, we'll see. I don't know. I don't know. Have you ever done one? Let me know.

03:37 But if I were to do one, no doubt, like every other training session that I have in the gym, I need a little help. I like to get a little stimulant-free, caffeine-free pre-workout in my body to help with energy, to help with strength and endurance focus. And I say caffeine-free because, personally, I choose to get my caffeine from coffee. I love having one, maybe two cups a day. I'm very conscious of my caffeine consumption and my caffeine time. So when it comes time for me to train, which I prefer to do in the afternoon, I don't want any more caffeine, any more stimulants in my body, because I really, really, really want to prioritize my sleep. So what do I do?

04:14 I reach for today's sponsor, pulse Stem-Free Pre-Workout Drink from Legion Athletics. This is the only 100% natural, stem-free pre-workout supplement with clinically effective doses of four scientifically proven ingredients for more strength and stamina and less fatigue, without the jitters, no upset stomach or post-workout crash. I mean seriously. What other pre-workout out there has what Legion has, and that is 45 peer-reviewed scientific studies supporting Pulse's combination of ingredients and doses. If you're looking for a caffeinated version, they got you covered. They have a stem and a stem-free version and so many great flavors available for you at LegionAthleticscom. The best part is your first purchase. You can actually save 20% when you use code EVERFORWARD at LegionAthleticscom. That's code EVERFORWARD to save 20% off of your entire first purchase at LegionAthleticscom.

05:10 - Speaker 2 In gyms, et cetera. I always like from the movement standards pretty one-sided. Intensity is always the same. Every workout every day is more or less exactly the same, and no professional athlete works or trains like that right.

05:23 You have different intensities, you have different programming, you do longer sessions, you do strength work, you mix different things in, and I believe that that makes more sense for everyone to train like that. This is one of our tech lines, that we think we are creating athletes, but not in a competitive way that you need to win something or whatever, but you think like an athlete Because you want to get better, you compare your times and it doesn't matter on what level, and then people, I think, get smarter, in a way also to train smarter, and that will probably lead to a different business model, because people were asking for different things. But I think it makes a lot of sense to do it and I really believe that this is a trend in fitness which is will change the fitness industry a big time, like we've seen it in running or in other sports, where from jogging suddenly people became runners and that changed the whole game. So I think we will see this in fitness as well.

06:28 - Speaker 1 What do you mean exactly by training smarter? What does that look like right now?

06:32 - Speaker 2 Yeah, for me the biggest example is that and these are all good products but a lot of the classes and the gyms and the training methodologies you do, so they have one certain approach to it and then, like I said, every training every day, every day of the week, is exactly the same Same distance, same intensity, almost the same workout.

06:55 I don't think that makes sense in the long run because I don't think you also get you optimize your own potential and you really get better from what you can do as a human body because, like I said, you're not no one if it's about building athletes and making them better and really performance wise. No one trains like that. You have programming, you do periodization, you do very different intensities depending on where you are and what's your goal, where you wanna be on the peak of your performance. And I think that's what I mean with changing the game in the way how people train, from standardized workouts to programming and periodization and much more flexibility and much more, much more change in the way how you train and in the end, this will make everyone actually physically stronger or better.

07:56 - Speaker 1 I almost kind of think that you have to have that athlete's mindset first, or does the athlete's mindset come after you have kind of shown yourself what you can do in terms of training like one?

08:06 - Speaker 3 At a level that's much lower down, that they don't even know what an athlete's mindset is yet. And I think for those individuals it's how to help them find themselves, help them find that mindset, help them understand what their potential is, so then it can be realized. And then I think for others that are already playing in that zone, it's how to then elevate that and give them more of what Christian's talking about. I think for center it's been very much this notion of I don't. I would say train like an athlete is one way of putting it. For us it's also just how do you train to perform better, regardless of what that performing is? Yeah, you have to define performance for yourself really.

08:52 Right. So for Chris, he would be training for all these roles that he was in and he had access to people across every facet of nutrition and mindfulness and movement and fitness. And he was sort of why am I the only person that has access to all these amazing resources? How can we bring this to a much broader set of people so they have access as well? And that's really what gave birth to this whole thing was how do we help people regardless of whether the on ramp is fitness or just mental clarity and mental strength to how do I eat better? It's sort of all those ramps bring you into that. How do I live a healthier life and then, as a result, perform better?

09:32 - Speaker 1 I'm the biggest proponent of bringing all the things to the plate, because they all matter you can train really hard and you can get great results and then you can then focus on nutrition. But there are some, I think, missing components that a lot of people overlook that matter. What I'm hearing you guys really talk about is the mental state, emotional state. What else are you all bringing to the table? What else should be brought to the table that you think most people overlook?

09:57 - Speaker 3 For us, it's the integration of all those pieces to your point One. If you do one and you skip the others, it's still not gonna end up in a great place. Mental health, which is mental wellness, mental fitness, mental clarity all of those things are important. We believe sleep is one of the primary elements of this. That nutrition how are you thinking about not just what you prefer to eat, but how does that power you through the day and how does that match up with your workout, your training? Are you thinking about those pieces together? So it's the integration of the components, as opposed to like I need four. If you had four different coaches and they never talked to each other, then it's sort of not helping you really.

10:37 - Speaker 1 Perfect analogy perfect analogy yeah. Is there a preferred way or maybe a way personally you have found to kind of approach that? Is there a hierarchy that works?

10:46 - Speaker 3 best for you. Yeah, I think there is an element of personalization where for each individual, there's a bit of a unique way that they approach how to live a healthier life. Like some things, people are just kind of like, oh, I hate this, and other people are like I love that. There's a lot of personal preference that's layered in, so I think it's really tapping into what makes somebody motivated and driven. So for me, I believe nutrition is probably one of the biggest pieces of the equation that I've been unbelievably fit at different points in my life, but if the nutrition's off the rail, I'm a disaster, and so for me, nutrition plays a more central part.

11:29 - Speaker 1 Christian for you. I have to imagine what everyone is doing to prepare for these competitive games. Nutrition is the lifeblood, is fuel. How are you guys kind of bringing this to the table and best preparing people for Hirox? No, first of all 100%.

11:44 - Speaker 2 It's absolutely crucial that you know what kind of nutrition you should take in training and towards the competition I mean. One reason is why we're partnering up the center to have the tools and technology to provide the right solutions to the people. We have also been partnering up with a big nutrition brand in the world and they are working on specific products for which we believe will be the best solutions in preparing yourself for the Hirox events.

12:15 - Speaker 1 So when Hirox is preparing for an event, putting out the course, the challenges, the criteria, is there a nutritional criteria component as well that you all kind of put out there, or does that kind of fall on each contestant individually?

12:30 - Speaker 2 Yeah, so far we couldn't provide it, but we are changing this right now. So, together with center and it's my protein, which is like a global partner, I think, one of the biggest companies in the field. But it's not about just taking the existing products. It's really now to really look at it with a lot of science background. What are the right solutions for people, for this sport?

12:54 - Speaker 3 Going from nothing Exactly To whatever you want, to a nutritionist where you have a personal nutritionist, like that's like the spectrum and we're looking sort of where in the middle can we bring better tools, better guidance to people? If you're a novice, you're just getting into something, versus you're like I want to be an elite 15, and I want to win. Ok, the loading and how they eat are going to have to be different, and so how to bring that guidance and direction without going all the way to being your personal nutritionist?

13:24 - Speaker 2 And I think our job is, in the first place, to provide something to the broader amount of people that don't have maybe the money, the resources to go to an individual nutritionist and pay for that and you get your own individual. So we want to have everyone, with very low barriers, to get access to a good solution.

13:44 - Speaker 1 I feel like what you all both do what Senator does and what Hirox does came out of necessity. It almost was inevitable that something that is focused around helping individuals where they're at, with minimal equipment, minimal timing, kind of painting all the dots together for them at home or not needing to have a community or go out during the pandemic, post-pandemic. And then with Hirox, I feel like it was the also second most inevitable thing of we've been so secluded, we've been working out on our own or maybe small groups, and we haven't really had access to or to some varying degree, maybe feeling safe or even having things that are open like they used to. So it's unique.

14:24 I feel like you all are addressing the individual component of what we all went through, of if I'm going to keep my health, if I'm going to maintain any kind of semblance of that, I've got to do something. I might not be able to do all the things that I used to, but here's an option for me to keep the momentum, but then, when I can, I'm going to get back out and I'm going to see people. I want to run next to people, I'm going to train next to people what has been kind of the biggest aha moment for you guys, maybe individually, and going, yes, like people really want this because of what the world just went through the last three, four years.

14:59 - Speaker 3 But like when I went to the Anaheim competition last year, a year ago first time I've ever been to a high rock cement, and I walked in and I was sort of and I hadn't, honestly, no offense, I hadn't heard of it before I went to that competition and I walk into this room and there must have been 2000 plus athletes there and just the vibration of energy that was in that room I'm like what is this? What is happening here? And so then I start learning more about it and seeing the competition, and the thing that was amazing was other than the just energy that was there was when people crossed the finish line. You saw everything. You saw doubles crossing together and hugging each other, you saw people that were crossing and hitting a PR, and so it really meant the motivation, the why people were there, was all over the spectrum.

15:53 - Speaker 1 It sounds like it was pretty clear that everyone came with their own individual. This is what a win is going to look like and feel like, but they all experienced it and then they all got to celebrate together.

16:02 - Speaker 3 They all supported each other and it didn't matter if you were trying to be an elite 15, or if you just were a part of a relay and you're just like, oh my god, we did that. How great was that. And so that community existed that way. It lifted the whole group and when I saw that, I was like this is what we're building at center. We want everyone to support each other on this journey, and at times it's an isolated journey. You're in your house. You make your own choices. People don't make your choices for you. It is a solitary existence. You choose what's right, what's wrong. I should get up and work out or no. I'm going to just sit on the couch, choose, no one else. But to see people supporting each other to help in those choices is amazing.

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18:25 - Speaker 2 I also have to say I mean, we created Hirox not because of the pandemic. We actually started it before because I always was. I am the true believer that people, in the end you like to come together and you want to enjoy something with more people and you want to benchmark yourself and not alone. In the end we want to socialize, right yeah.

18:46 - Speaker 1 We are built like that Absolutely.

18:49 - Speaker 2 We are not built to be always alone in front of the computer. We have a lot of situations where we want to come together and we want to do something with a lot of other people. So I thought there was always this need and so I always had the feeling that people wanted it and it will work out. I mean, I have to say, and then the pandemic came very quickly.

19:08 - Speaker 1 I was going to ask how did you all navigate the pandemic? How did you navigate? You know?

19:11 - Speaker 2 we are a community driven event.

19:14 - Speaker 1 Community driven business. How did you survive?

19:17 - Speaker 2 Well, it was bad. I mean, everything was literally down to zero. Of course, we did what everyone does. We created virtual events, et cetera, and did some cool things where we tried to keep the brand alive.

19:31 - Speaker 1 You've got to share with me that. What does a remote high-rocks event look like? What does a remote fitness community competition thing look like? Well, it was actually quite cool.

19:42 - Speaker 2 We had even virtual world championships. So we posted a certain workout which everyone had to do, and then it was. I mean, crossfit is doing a little bit the same for the open, even not because of COVID, but we copied a lot of these ideas. So you have to make a video of your workout, of course all the workouts where body workouts you can do, basically in your living room.

20:10 - Speaker 1 So you had to boil it all down. Everybody had the same tools, exactly the same workout.

20:15 - Speaker 2 And then you have to film yourself and there's also a timing or a timer where we can see, and it's real time. And then they had to post or they had to send us all the videos. And then we were looking at the videos where we're judging them, Wow. And then we had a ranking and then we had elimination rounds and then in the end we had the last 10, I think eight athletes.

20:38 - Speaker 1 So the whole experience was all individual up to a point and you're just competing against times Interesting.

20:43 - Speaker 2 And then we had the virtual like. The final was like we had a camera, so there were eight athletes at the same time that had the camera on and everywhere in the world. And then we it was really game set start. And then they started to do a workout, all at the same time competing against each other, but of course they were not in the same room.

21:07 So it was kind of a virtual thing and but since the pandemic was over, that actually gave us a real push because exactly suddenly, you had this feeling of everyone like oh my God, I want to get out, I want to meet people, I want to go to events now, because I haven't done it for two years.

21:25 - Speaker 3 We had the inverse, we had the pandemic like, like. Of course, Chris launched this right at the start.

21:33 - Speaker 1 If you got an at home fitness offer during you was straight line.

21:38 - Speaker 3 And then we at the same time created a relationship with Costco and brought in essentially I don't remember the quantity, it was an immense number of dumbbells into the United States, because not in my Costco.

21:53 - Speaker 1 I couldn't find anything. I know we were bringing them in as fast as humanly possible.

21:58 - Speaker 3 Like. I don't think in the history of the United States so many dumbbells have been sold in 12 months ever.

22:04 - Speaker 1 I haven't done one, but I've been to Spartan events. I've been to a lot of different. You know fitness competitions, and I feel like it takes a special kind of person. There's a certain type of person that is just so driven to want to first of all compete but also just for lack of a better term Do it for something that doesn't matter. And I'm not saying that in a harsh way. Look, you're not. This isn't like the NBA or professional games. You're not a pay athlete. Maybe some are, you know, in endorsements or something. But just how does the person know if something like this is for them? Do they need to have a certain kind of personality trait, a certain inner driver Like, is this meant for everybody? How do you know if it is for you?

22:47 - Speaker 2 I. It's definitely not for everybody, because you need to have a little bit of a competitive, competitive gene or something Like you're looking for this but want to challenge themself from time to time. It drives them. It drives them off the couch and from the off the sofa. I also need that. I need a different motivation to go to the gym, like five days a week or something, and to continue to do this instead of whatever, opening the bottle of red wine and say I can do it tomorrow, because when you, in a moment, you sign up for these kind of events, you know or shit, the deadline is coming. I can't. If I don't, I'm not doing it today, I have to do it tomorrow, because then I know if I don't do anything, it will be painful.

23:30 - Speaker 3 I think the motivator is the is the key. Like I really think that helping people find their motivation, why do they do anything? You wake up in the morning why do anything Right, and there's a reason to. And so helping people really land, why, why care, why drive? Because if, whether it's an athlete or an executive or whatnot, these are all people that are performing at an elevated level, there's motivators that got them there. And so I think it's like what's the gateway? Even if it's a small gateway, we give you a gateway that opens you up to the next level. Oh, here's another gateway, and those, those take you up like all the way up into, into, into events, like I I did the running leg of a relay team for a triathlon. I was like I'm never going to do a triathlon, no way, I'm just going to do the running leg.

24:23 I know you're the running man in the group so I did the running leg and then I was like, oh, actually I think I can do.

24:29 - Speaker 2 I think I can do the whole thing, so the next year.

24:31 - Speaker 3 I trained the whole thing and it was like one of the short ones, like the sprint. I was like, oh, I did do that, I think I could do now, I could do the Olympic this, and it's right. So I think it's a gateway to the next thing. But if it's too big of a leap, you're never, you don't have the motivation because it's just too far. You're like, oh, I don't. Yeah, I'm going to talk about it but I'll never make that. So it's just make. Just make the next gate Like just one gate at a time when you step into a room, you step into a online portal.

24:57 - Speaker 1 When you step into an event space, everyone around you has already gone through that kind of criteria, so it's you're kind of like selecting, yeah it's the people that you want to be around because you, we all chose.

25:09 We all chose to commit to something, we all chose to perform. We all chose our own individual reasons for winning and what success feels like. But we're all here, there's no guess where. Whereas not to knock it, you know, you go to your typical gym or whatever. Everyone can just be like I'm just here, I'm just here. You know, it's totally different vibe, different energy, but it's like that's the champion mentality, that's a champion energy that you can like feel, no matter where you are or what you're doing. Yeah, correct, you bring some really unique history to the table. 12 years, right, with Disney. Yeah, how does a Disney executive wind up in health and fitness space? I got to know.

26:08 - Speaker 3 Yeah that's a lot of questions, so I would start with the the what, how'd I go from there to there? I, at Disney, I ran the digital and publishing entities for the company. So everything from all social for Disney apps to publish Marvel Comics, that whole that world, and creating content, figuring out creative ways to bring content and tools to consumers around the world.

26:40 - Speaker 1 Can you give us any spoilers on Deadpool and Wolverine? I'm sorry, no, no, no, no.

26:44 - Speaker 3 And luckily I'm not surrounded by spoilers anymore.

26:46 - Speaker 1 He's going to get with me after Off air everybody. I have to know more about Wolverine.

26:52 - Speaker 3 And so it was great In parallel, to Keep Saying, I started going down health and wellness journeys of different kinds. I was an athlete in high school and college. I kind of got off the rail a little, then got back on and started doing half marathons and marathons and I ended up doing a couple of half irons and just sort of finding ways to stay sane. And then I was in a car accident or I was pedestrian hit by a car and was pretty knocked sideways, broke pretty much this side of my body and spent about a year and a half like recovering and coming out of that. Like I think the importance of health and wellness was so elevated in my mind in terms of like the impact this has for everyone that bringing what I learned at Disney and building products and reaching communities and doing things that are very positive, bringing that to the world of health and wellness felt like a natural continuum so many times and so many people's origin stories I hear.

28:03 - Speaker 1 The reason why I'm here doing what I'm doing now today is because I kind of had a moment where that was taken away from me and I have such gratitude and appreciation for, a still being here but, b realizing what this meat suit can go through and not only bounce back but even in some ways bounce back even stronger. Yeah, 100%.

28:22 - Speaker 3 I was six inches away Wow, wow, six inches from being gone, so definitely kind of puts everything back in perspective, yeah. And you have to fight for it, like it was. You know like I had to fight to get back to the position I was before and you know just a lot of PT, it's hard. I was.

28:43 - Speaker 1 we share Virginia in background and my undergrad, like I was telling you, exercise science when I enrolled and for, like the first semester of class, I was still using a cane after my injuries, and so it was even more interesting to see a guy, this 24 year old, kid Totally and I would just hobble into biomechanics. Exercise physiology is like Yo bro, what are you doing?

29:04 Yeah, you're in the wrong class, Right yeah but I mean this whole athlete's mindset keeps coming back to me. I mean you have to, you have to kind of tap in here and make the choice first and then decide to fight. Yeah, exactly.

29:17 - Speaker 3 Yeah, because you're the only person's going to fight for yourself, as you.

29:21 - Speaker 1 No one's coming to save you right, or you can feel sorry, right, and you're now the victim side.

29:25 - Speaker 3 So it's it's your either the fighter or you're the victim, and I'd rather be the fighter than the victim.

29:30 - Speaker 1 Hey guys, quick break from my conversation with Andrew and Christian. I want to bring your attention to something that I think the guys would agree is incredibly important for not only your daily well being but especially recovery from something such as a high rocks game. You need more blood flow, you need better circulation. You need Comrade gradual compression socks. I love wearing my comrades after a harsh leg day. If I am at the desk, if I'm traveling in a car, on a plane, train, automobile, for more than really a couple hours, I notice such a difference when I'm wearing Comrade gradual compression socks and when I'm not. It's one of those things that's like how did I go through my life without it? Once I feel the difference now there's no going back. I have missed maybe one or two flights over the last four years since discovering Comrade socks and not worn them. They made such a difference in my comfort level on the flight, my energy after. But, like I said, if you're looking for an easy way to boost circulation for all day, energy, support and comfort Right now you can buy two, get one free as an exclusive offer here to EverFord radio listeners.

30:34 If you want to snag this deal, make sure to click the link in the show notes today under episode resources and it check out. Use code chasec15. That's my name, chase chasec15. Chasec15, you're going to get this exclusive deal. These are clinically proven, snug fitting socks designed to gently put a specific level of pressure on your legs. This pressure improves circulation, which allows you to feel more energized, while minimizing the chance of varicose veins, blood clots, inflammation, swelling and general discomfort. Made with a stay up cuff, breathable fabric, antimicrobial, smart silver technology and a cushion heel and toe, it's truly function meets fashion. So head to comredsockscom and use code chasec15. So what is so unique about your experience? Do you think at Disney, working in that world of imagination and creativity and digital products like you're saying, that you feel is a true asset for what you're doing now in the world of health and fitness and center.

31:38 - Speaker 3 So we're sort of creating this integrated ecosystem of both digital content utility tools as well as physical products and tools, and looking at them holistically not like a connected fitness company, but more like there's all these different places that we can help individuals live healthier lives, and those on ramps can come in lots of different ways. And I did very similar things at Disney and like thinking about digital content, physical products and how those sat together in one branded ecosystem. So Star.

32:13 Wars is a branded ecosystem, marvel is a branded ecosystem and in many ways a two hour Star Wars film is amazing entertainment.

32:23 - Speaker 1 It's also a two hour commercial for the brand right and everything's marketing right.

32:30 - Speaker 3 It is when you're walking down an aisle at a store and you see a box on the shelf. It's a product.

32:35 - Speaker 1 Everything is marketing. Yeah, exactly Strong coffee.

32:43 - Speaker 3 Hyrox.

32:43 - Speaker 1 I'm taking a page out of Chris Williams' book the Element Water Model.

32:47 - Speaker 3 So I think, thinking about things in terms of, like a brand, and how do we have an emotional connection with an audience or with a consumer, or with athletes, where it really means something, it's not just a thing, it's not just a name. There's some deeper meaning to it and that's what Disney's been built on for over 100 years. So bringing that, into this category.

33:10 I think there's a lot of opportunity and it's not easy, but we try to find like partners that are trying to do the exact same thing on their side, and that's where we felt like the center Hyrox is almost like. We're looking at how to help people be accessible, be inclusive and bring things that motivate and encourage success, but in totally different ways. So it was almost like two pieces that fit really well together.

33:41 - Speaker 1 Can I expand a little bit more there with you please, andrew? I love the aspect of creativity, I love thinking outside of the box and I think, to all my other entrepreneurs and small business owners, you know what I'm talking about. You have to it's almost innate, or else you wouldn't be in business for yourself, you wouldn't be creating, and in order to excel in what you're doing, I think you need to lean more heavily into creativity. Are you all familiar with Rick Rubin? Creative Acts?

34:06 - Speaker 2 Yeah, everybody get this book, get his book.

34:09 - Speaker 1 It's creativity meets Zen and just the most incredible, you got to get the audible. He reads it. It's so good.

34:19 - Speaker 3 Good marketing. It's right there. I know a fairly Asian with Rick Rubin.

34:21 - Speaker 2 I do have an audible Today's podcast by Rick Rubin, but seriously.

34:28 - Speaker 1 it even does wonders, because if you don't think of yourself as a creative person, the way that he just navigates the human experience and struggle and emotion and desire man really gets you like, oh, like, I can be an artist, I can be a creative in a totally different way. My question for you, Andrew, is in what ways do you think people should be leaning more into creativity? How can they think more creatively so that they are in support of their health and fitness goals?

34:58 - Speaker 3 I'll start with just the notion of creativity. I think that for people to really be creative, they got to get out of their own way, and one of the biggest blocks for creativity in any form is insecurity or some form of ego that blocks right and that creativity people are not creative, or that it's actually you are like but you're blocking yourself. So it's like how to kind of get that inner dialogue out and just kind of let the creativity flow. And then, as it relates to health and wellness, I think it's how to tap into what you love, because if you tap into what you love, it's no, like health and wellness isn't a chore. It doesn't need to be a chore. It shouldn't be a chore. It should be what is it that you enjoy doing?

35:41 And if you're not sure, then go out and try a whole bunch of things and you'll figure it out Like it's. Nutrition doesn't have to be a chore. Fitness doesn't have to be like these are exciting things, like I am competitive, like I love doing things and getting a better time being, like oh, I just shaved 10 seconds off my time. How great is that?

35:58 - Speaker 1 Yeah, like that and to know that that's not by chance, that's because of I did a direct result of your work, right.

36:04 - Speaker 3 I thought I fought to get it. I earned that 10 seconds and that, for me, is fun.

36:10 - Speaker 1 And nobody's doing that work for you, yeah.

36:12 - Speaker 3 And then my point earlier about self confidence and ego. Like now you're kind of like, oh, I'm more self-confident because look what I just did, I did that, no one else did that, I did that, what else can I do? Right? And then people start to realize, oh my God, I can do so much more than I thought I could do. Yeah, I'm actually pretty powerful. This is, this is cool. Let's, let's keep going.

36:31 - Speaker 2 So for me, of course, creativity is like almost everything I do because I've seen the events.

36:36 - Speaker 1 They're pretty damn creative.

36:38 - Speaker 2 The obstacles, in the process of creating this needed a pretty like creative mindset, but for me, my whole life it was all about creativity, in a way of looking for new solutions, create something new and be ready to take risk, and you have to very believe in what you're doing. Even everyone tells you this will never work. Are you crazy? Or don't risk your money, I mean, there's always 10 million times more arguments to say no than yes, right, and to say fuck it, I do it. So, yeah, I think I always, personally, I was always, I think, a pretty creative person and it's, for me, the biggest driver in my life. And but this is more coming from the entrepreneurial side, of course, right, Right.

37:28 So and for when it comes to normal people, about training or something I mean, then creativity probably means try everything, try different things out right. Means fail a lot, don't be afraid of do crazy things with a very new way, think, oh, I can never do this. Or and there's so much up, there are so many opportunities you can do right. And then I. I try everything that's out there in sport and fitness, but more, of course, also because it's my job actually to do that, because I think I need to test everything to say I like it or I don't like it.

38:07 Of course it's a very personal opinion, but I I try everything out and I choose the things which I think makes most sense for me. And hopefully there are other people that also have the same feelings that I have, and then it can work also as a business it can work and can be successful. But bottom line, yes, creativity is super important and it's, I think it's a foundation of every brand right. I believe so, like I was started with, otherwise it's not authentic right, it doesn't have the creative voice.

38:40 - Speaker 3 It's not really authentic and I think our collaboration was a perfect example of creativity in how we work together to reimagine the equipment to bring into the competition Like I thought that that was. It wasn't just how, so what do you mean by that?

38:56 - Speaker 1 Well, it wasn't like taking a name. You have to rebuild the barbell, the dumbbell. We rebuild Essentially, we said building the fitness wheel.

39:05 - Speaker 3 We kind of we wanted to look at like what's not just the design language but the utility of the product. How can we make it better, how can we make it work better in the competition as a result, work better outside of the competition? And it was kind of like a blank slate where we got to just talk about what they, what they were looking for in the competition, what, what experience did we have in architecting, designing different pieces, and, as a result, we came up with some pretty, I think, clever, clever uses like we have, like these interlocking sled bumper plates that lock in on the sled. But once because they're interlocking and they lock in, you can see this, the weight size, going all the way up the side of the sled. So it's like everything's 25 kg, 25 kg, 25 kg.

39:51 - Speaker 1 That's a great visual for anybody, and so for social when you're when you've got these photos that come through of what you're doing.

39:57 - Speaker 3 It's now no longer a blank black plate, right? It's actually? Look how much I'm pushing right, and it's from motivation, you know all that it's.

40:07 - Speaker 1 It does make a difference, I'm wondering is recreating classic fitness tools like the plate, putting the number on a different spot. You know dumbbells, barbells, bags, whatever. Is that more beneficial for the business side of fitness, maybe trainers or gym owners or you all even who are looking for ways to like to our point earlier. You know I need to find a better way to brand or be more efficient when I'm doing, to have more output potential with minimal equipment. Or is it better to better for the consumer? Is it time for us to reinvent the barbell? Is is the consumer, is the person going to be better suited with a reimagining of classic fitness equipment that's actually going to improve their fitness?

40:53 - Speaker 3 I mean, I think if it's a problem looking for a solution, then no like. If it's. If it's just like sorry solution looking for a problem, then no, there we go. But I think that what we were trying to figure out was not just design, but utility and how like. So, for example, the interlocking plates. They serve that visual purpose. They're also easier to take on and off.

41:18 - Speaker 1 So which in competition really matters for people to load and unload speed and prevention at home probably to much faster less risk of injury, so that's a utility.

41:27 - Speaker 3 On the sleds we added knurling with line markers on the on the push poles. So when you go to the pole to push the sled, we added knurling. So now, instead of when you're sweaty, your hands slip on the pole. Oh wow, there's now a very light knurling, not not so abrasive, but enough to get. Give you a little bit more traction and because we've got line markers going down the pole, you now know where to put your hand when you go, and so it gives you.

41:55 - Speaker 2 That's so subtle, but so it's utility and it's just a training, perhaps in training too, because the deeper you go, the harder it is to push. It's a different kind of a workout rather than pushing the poles on the top. So we can even integrate this into the training on purpose, absolutely Not random grabbing. So you say no, today we go like three levels down, so that's the perfect is when it's design and utility you're achieving.

42:23 - Speaker 3 You're achieving everything and like the kettlebells, we redesigned the kettlebell from having a round ball to making a little bit more edged inside, a little bit more oval, like and so when you're doing farmers carry right. And you're walking like this. You don't have this thing bouncing off your knees, it slides right through.

42:46 - Speaker 1 You guys read my mind on that. I love farmers carry, but man, that is the biggest pain in my ass. I get chafing. But not wearing like the right kind of shorts. Wow, you just think it's something you have to just endure, and or you don't.

42:59 - Speaker 3 Or you can make it better.

42:59 - Speaker 1 Okay. So, speaking of making it better AI, I feel like everybody in their brother is integrating AI in some way right now, whether it's our day-to-day life or scheduling or business equipment. I'm curious what role does AI have in you all's world of community fitness events, equipment, at home workouts for you all the business side? But also, what role do you think AI has in terms of most potential for someone to help their health and fitness? How can we use it on our own end?

43:29 - Speaker 2 I believe the biggest impact of AI will be that it's possible to provide basically kind of personal coaching to everyone for very little money, because AI is smart enough to analyze if you put enough data in. Ai is smart enough and learns and is probably maybe even better than the best coach in the world to design the best workout for every individual person.

43:58 - Speaker 1 I know Woop put out there recently I think it was the end of last year. Based on all your data points, I think it's integration with chat GPT.

44:06 - Speaker 2 You can AI coach right, exactly because so far, you have the Woop data, but the majority of people have no idea what to do with it. Now, what does this mean? How does this relate to a certain training I should do. That's why we discussed this morning. Very affluent people pay 300 bucks an hour to a personal coach. But who can afford to do that? So the only chance you have as a normal person, you go to a group class which costs whatever 20 bucks, but it's never a personalized training because it's a very standardized training with 30 people in the class. I think AI can be an amazing solution that you basically get your really personalized training plan.

44:50 - Speaker 1 Is it Hyrox?

44:51 - Speaker 2 using AI, not yet.

44:54 So what we are creating in the moment.

44:55 We started with creating these events in the sport and now we are creating this training side of it, the training methodology and the service to gyms, et cetera, to help them to implement proper and good Hyrox training into their gyms, which is all based already digital. We will are launching a digital university academy where people can take a class and become a certified coach, a Hyrox coach, a Hyrox coach, and then you have different levels, almost up to a professional level where you can train elite 15 athletes, and the next step is to use AI in that field. But this is probably something we will do together with CENTER, because this is B2B what we offer, and together we are working on a B2C solution. I think that's where we will use AI to exactly provide the service of a personal coach for little money, which is really individualizing your results. And coming back to nutrition, there are these interesting companies now where you can send your little piece of your blood in, et cetera, whatever Into the lab and they send you back your very individual results.

46:11 And then you send this to, let's say, to my protein, and they come up with a very individual nutrition mix of nutrition which is exactly designed for your body.

46:21 - Speaker 1 Very personalized nutrition.

46:22 - Speaker 2 Very personalized Can't beat that, and then we have maybe AI. That then takes all of that information to create the best training plan for you. So how much should you run, how much you should do this, and there's how much stretching you need to do to get the best out of your body, and everyone decides. It's your choice how many hours you want to put in right Every week. It doesn't matter. If you say two hours, fine, it's two hours a week. If you say 20 hours, better it's so good.

46:52 - Speaker 1 It's like real time feedback that I think most people will really appreciate in order to stay adherent to, no matter what their goals are. But I have to assume center already has some kind of integration with that.

47:02 - Speaker 3 No, Well so there's the two sides of it. There's the data, there's getting the data in, and then there's what do you do with the data? That then taps into AI to push out something in return. And so whoop is a great example of it's collecting data right now. Right, like heart rate variability, all that sort of stuff, so that it can give you some coaching as a result of what's happening. We're looking at all the ways that data can be captured. So there's biomarkers. You can have camera based tech that can sense movement. You can use mixed reality or virtual reality as another mechanism for capturing data. If you're wearing a headset, you got movement, you got all these things. So it's all collecting data Accelerometers, biomarkers it's just massive amounts of data. So getting data increasingly not hard, many, many ways to get data. So how do you take that data and then do real time, as close to real time as possible feedback of form correction or workout changes on the fly? Oh, you know that seems a little bit too heavy.

48:12 - Speaker 1 Last rep was a little off. Kind of thing. Fix your posture.

48:16 - Speaker 3 So that's where we're working a lot on right now is how to get as close to that real time both experience as well as coaching as possible.

48:26 - Speaker 1 In general, what are you all most excited for in the world of technology, community and human potential? Are we on the right path? Are we trying to do too much right now? We're trying to integrate too many different technologies too soon. Are people starting, you know, thinking they're capable of doing too much just because what we have access to, we can see so many people doing all these crazy things. What are you excited for? What are you most realistic and most safe?

48:56 - Speaker 2 Well, first of all, I'm excited that the world is getting healthier and people understand that the pandemic was the only good thing about the pandemic for me.

49:10 The bottom line was that everyone understood if I am generally fitter and healthier, I'm also more resistant to any kind of diseases or whatever is coming around and hitting us. And now, of course, we are in the Western world where it's pretty developed, and the awareness of it, that it is important for you. You live longer and healthier and you have more fun, especially when you get older and we can speak a lot about this. I think that's a big part. When I was younger, you think I don't care, I'm young, I'm strong, it doesn't matter, which is okay, which is correct. But suddenly, when you hit the 50s or the 60-year-old mark, you realize shit, if I have started earlier, I would now be in a better shape.

50:00 It seems to be the way it goes, because what you miss in the early days, you will not keep up.

50:04 - Speaker 1 It's very hard to keep up later when you're getting older, it's far easier to maintain health and fitness than it is to develop. Aside from, I think, the beginning, everybody gets those newbie gains. You get pretty quick wins, but once you've laid the foundation of a few years, you go off track a little bit here and there. You can go back to your maintenance so much more quickly, at least in my experience. No, 100%, because you're now 100% there, exactly.

50:29 - Speaker 2 I also started with. I tried to be a professional athlete. Never could really achieve it, but I think that I never stopped training. It's totally what you say. If you have this foundation, it's much easier to keep up and get back in shape than when you stop doing something for 10 years and then you start again with 50, it will be very hard to get back into that shape. So I think the whole awareness of that just makes sense and it's important, and not only physical exercise, I mean stretching.

51:07 I think the biggest disease we have these days is actually mental problems. When you read this, how many people are? It's very weird.

51:16 - Speaker 1 Especially now post-pandemic, we have so many new or exacerbated mental health concerns.

51:22 - Speaker 2 I know people are stressed out, burned out. Depression is one of the biggest massive diseases in the world. And you think why? Because you think, oh, we're living in the best time in the world has ever seen. I mean, no one is starving in our world.

51:37 At least you have access to almost everything if you want education good food, good nutrition, everything, and still people create massive problems and can't deal with all the opportunities. It's too much. I think physical fitness etc. Can have a lot in that area and to help people to find good solutions.

52:04 - Speaker 1 And to have like a newfound or revisiting this deep appreciation for it. I think is what I'm hearing the direction we're heading. People take it more seriously and they recognize it's important, other than just a luxury. I think it gives clarity too.

52:20 - Speaker 3 It helps get rid of some of the noise in the head, that is, I think people struggle to figure out how to make sense of it. At times Fitness kind of like almost says we're taking that offline, we're going to take that offline.

52:34 We're going to go work out for a half hour you can come back to it. Then when you come back to it you're like, oh my god, that noise is gone. So I think it's this notion of fitness is really good for mental health in so many ways and I think that there's probably never a better time in terms of technology or just companies in the health and wellness and fitness based in the art today. It's incredible. Is there too much technology? I don't know. At times I'm sure there is the connected fitness trend and all the investments flowing into it.

53:08 It's like anything. Ai is like that. Now also, if you have AI in your company description, you're out raising capital. I'd say it's not all about raising capital. Do you have a real business model and are you solving a real problem? And that should be the driver, and you'll go through these trends where there's too much of something. Eventually it'll right size.

53:31 - Speaker 1 Before I get into my last question, I just want to say again, guys, thank you so much for your time. Love seeing these two worlds come together. To actually talk about the two worlds coming together, we have the World Series of Fitness meets, personalized equipment and coaching to fuel your movements, meals and mind. Can you describe for us what this collaboration partnership actually looks like? And part two, for the other entrepreneurs, business owners out there that maybe are, I'm just dead set in my lane doing my thing, but how would you advise them to kind of to go back to the creativity a little bit what should I be maybe looking for to partner, to join forces with somebody else that, hey, we can both really win well together, because partnerships aren't easy and not always top of mind for people. So what is it? What is Hirox and Center? What is this collaboration? And then, what model would you want to help pass back for other people to hopefully emulate the same thing or something similar?

54:28 - Speaker 2 Well, hirox and Center, we want to give accessible functional fitness, which I believe is the healthiest way of training, in the right mix of what you do.

54:41 We want to give this a name, a brand, and we want to make this accessible everywhere in the world by providing the best competitions to everyone who wants to do that. Have gyms to provide the best training with very smart and amazing equipment that helps you to do it, and then, with the digital part of Center together to provide people, let's say, the best digital platform to get access to the right training, to the right nutrition and to the right mindset. All that together. I think and let's go what we want to achieve together that we provide this to the world and not everyone will do it and some people will love other stuff, which is totally fine, but we think there will be a large community and a big amount of people that will choose this because they believe this is the right platform for me or the right thing to do, and it has a massive longevity. So this is a sport and a training, with all the tools we provide, that you can start with 16 and you can continue your. I think our oldest participant so far is 84.

55:59 84 year old participant in a high rock school so you can do it actually for a long time.

56:05 - Speaker 1 Actually, you can do it your whole life, no matter who's listening or watching. The goal of this has been to help them move forward in their life in a unique area of their total wellbeing, to live a life ever forward. I say so, those two words. When you guys hear those two words, what do they mean to you? How would you describe it? How do you define it? What is living a life ever forward mean to you, andrew?

56:26 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I would mm On the spot. So I would say that living a life ever forward effectively, even when you feel like you're going backwards, you're going forward. That everyone falls down, everyone makes a mistake, everyone's learning all the time right. So feel like you're going backwards but the outcome of that is actually you're always going forward. So you know, feeling like you have to live up to some standard that's not real or not attainable is an illusion. So like lighten up on yourself and know that you are literally living a life ever forward.

57:09 - Speaker 1 Even when, especially when you think you're not. I think that's crucial.

57:13 - Speaker 3 Totally yeah.

57:14 - Speaker 1 Christian. How does that fall on you today, ma?

57:16 - Speaker 2 I've realized in my life that everything I do is about trying to minimize failures. I accepted that when I was young. I tried to be perfect. That stressed me out and I was chasing something.

57:29 - Speaker 3 It sounds stressful, I was chasing something.

57:32 - Speaker 2 Because you read all these amazing books about people that do everything perfect on the front side, our interpretation of it is yeah. So I realized I never be perfect. It's all about minimizing failure. My next presentation is all perfect. You can always do it better. I might miss the next timing of a meeting or whatever it is, and I accepted this and now I feel better than ever in my life in trying things out.

58:00 But I accept failure. I accept it. I'm not 100% perfect, but I'm very happy with that. That took away all this stress actually in what I do and what I create, and I'm happy with what we achieved. So I'm looking. It's like is the glass half empty or half full? So for me, the glass is always half full, even though you can add more water into the glass. But I think for me that's the way to go ever forward and when you get older, for me is, don't fall into these cliches of, oh, now I'm getting, I'm 55, now I can't do these things anymore. I mean, I have so many friends that are already planning their retirement. It's like, dude, this is in fucking 10 years.

58:51 - Speaker 3 I mean, what are you talking about? And maybe it's in 20 years, Right? Or maybe it does not ever Today. Why would you start?

58:57 - Speaker 2 I'm not planning to stop. I have no game plan to stop working. I probably will invent, maybe maybe the next thing when we have, when this is successful.

59:09 And so I keep making plans, I keep going on, I train and I don't accept like rules for everyone, things now or now you can't do this anymore, or whatever. You have to behave in a certain way because of age or whatever. So I think for me that's important, that this is the mindset of being going ever forward, by breaking, not accepting, the just normal rules, et cetera. So I think that's my message Never write or wrong answers.

59:40 - Speaker 1 I appreciate both. We're gonna have everything listed down on the show notes for everybody. But if they don't know, where can they go to connect and learn more about High Rocks and Center?

59:51 - Speaker 3 So wwwcentercom, c-e-n-t-rcom, and if you put in the code High Rocks30, I believe you will receive a 30 day free trial to center to help you on your journey. All right, oh, good to know. Good to know, I didn't know that. Well, it's like the marketing. Yeah Well, hiro is a symbol also Go to Hiroxcom.

01:00:22 - Speaker 1 So H-Y-R-O-X.

01:00:24 - Speaker 2 H-Y-R-O-Xcom find a race, which now are everywhere in the world. We will have 64 major events this year, wow, everywhere in the world, and we are having great events coming up in the US as well. Yeah, so I mean, you see, is this weekend, it will be a bit too short, but we have Houston coming up Anaheim in this area.

01:00:43 - Speaker 1 Oh, cool Okay.

01:00:44 - Speaker 2 Which is in May, end of May, and New York City, will be an amazing, very, very cool event in P76 in Midtown, oh man. So if you want to try the new version of yeah, of a mass participation fitness event, give it a try.

01:01:01 - Speaker 1 I was gonna to hear you're in Houston. I was gonna send information to my brother. My brother lives in Houston, but he just found out he has a hernia. So yeah, so he's out of the game Next year.

01:01:12 - Speaker 2 Yeah.

01:01:13 - Speaker 1 But well, guys, this was great. Thank you so much.