"When you step into a space and you ask each other questions that are well constructed, you step into a journey, exploring that space that you haven't had before and that feels like intimacy."

Topaz Adizes

As I sat across from Topaz Adizes, the mind behind "The Skin Deep", our conversation went into the heart of human connections and break the traditional confines of intimacy. We all crave depth in our relationships, be it with family, friends, or partners, but how often do we step back to consider the trust and respect that serve as the bedrock for these bonds? From asking meaningful questions that ignite a spark of understanding to navigating true vulnerability, this episode will help you fortify your relationships in ways you never thought possible.

Follow Topaz @topazadizes

Follow The Skin Deep @the_skindeep

Follow Chase @chase_chewning


In this episode we discuss...

(01:00) Exploring Deeper Relationships Without Intimacy

(13:20) Navigating Safety and Discomfort in Relationships

(27:12) Creating Intimacy Through Questions

(30:21) Exploring Masculine and Feminine Energy

(44:30) Creating Better Questions for Relationships

(52:45) Navigating Identity in Mid-Life Crises

(59:42) Personal Growth and Relationship Evolution

(01:05:56) The Power of Deep Listening

(01:18:01) Deepening Relationships Through Thoughtful Questions

(01:22:50) How Topaz Lives Ever Forward


Episode resources:

EFR 780: The Best Questions to Ask for More Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships with Topaz Adizes

As I sat across from Topaz Adizes, the mind behind "The Skin Deep", our conversation went into the heart of human connections and break the traditional confines of intimacy. We all crave depth in our relationships, be it with family, friends, or partners, but how often do we step back to consider the trust and respect that serve as the bedrock for these bonds? From asking meaningful questions that ignite a spark of understanding to navigating true vulnerability, this episode will help you fortify your relationships in ways you never thought possible.

Follow Topaz @topazadizes

Follow The Skin Deep @the_skindeep

Follow Chase @chase_chewning


In this episode we discuss...

(01:00) Exploring Deeper Relationships Without Intimacy

(13:20) Navigating Safety and Discomfort in Relationships

(27:12) Creating Intimacy Through Questions

(30:21) Exploring Masculine and Feminine Energy

(44:30) Creating Better Questions for Relationships

(52:45) Navigating Identity in Mid-Life Crises

(59:42) Personal Growth and Relationship Evolution

(01:05:56) The Power of Deep Listening

(01:18:01) Deepening Relationships Through Thoughtful Questions

(01:22:50) How Topaz Lives Ever Forward


Episode resources:


00:00 - Speaker 1 The following is an operation podcast production.

00:08 - Speaker 2 Can we have deeper relationships without intimacy? That's a great question. So let's look at that. What comes up for me is the greater the anchor you build of trust and respect, the greater depths you can plummet into and explore because you have that as an anchor.

00:19 - Speaker 1 When we look at I want to get better at relationships, automatically we go to intimate.

00:23 - Speaker 2 It's really hard to have a safe conversation If you're pinned against the wall and you have to answer every question. How do you?

00:28 - Speaker 1 live a life ever.

00:28 - Speaker 2 Ford. I like the way it sounds, and what comes up for me is obviously this constant movement forward. But what I think is key in that is grace. What I mean by grace is doing it with the humility and understanding that we're not perfect, but that our intention and yearning to grow and to move forward is what makes us beautifully human. Hey, this is Topaz Adizis, founder of the Skin Deep and author of 12 Questions for Love. This is EverFord Radio.

00:54 - Speaker 1 We are still here in February 2024. Most odds are it's winter where you are, it's still a little cool out there, so no doubt you are getting cozy every morning with your hot chocolate cup of coffee chai, whatever you are waking up to. I got a way to make it a little bit more better. Let me put you on Element Electrolyte Hot Drink Mix so that you can heat up your winter with chocolate element. If you don't know, element is a delicious electrolyte drink mix that replaces vital electrolytes without the sugar and dodgy ingredients, and exclusively here today, you can get a free eight-count sample pack with any purchase. The Element Hot Chocolate Medley is a cozy trio featuring chocolate mint my personal favorite chocolate chai and chocolate raspberry. So get it while it's hot. Chocolate Medley is here for a limited time only. It includes free shipping on all US orders. No questions asked refund policy. If you don't absolutely love the way that you feel pumping your body full of just the purest, most scientifically backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium, no questions asked refund coming your way.

02:03 To scoop up this deal, simply head to drinkelementcom slash ever forward. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-Tcom slash ever forward, linked for you as always in the show notes today under episode resources. This is your number one source for inspiring content from people who are putting a purpose to their passion and truly living a life. Ever forward Conversations and messages that will take your fitness, nutrition and mindset to the next level. I am your host, chase Tuning. This is Ever Forward Radio ["Ever Forward Radio"]. Welcome back to the show, everybody. Thank you so so much for tuning in with me here today. Welcome. If you're new, I'm so glad you're here today. If you're returning Ever Forward Radio listener man, it means the world that you're here again. No matter if this is your first episode or 100th, maybe it's your 400th, 500th, maybe you've been with me since the very beginning. To that I say thank you. But the biggest call to action I could ever ask is if you are not already subscribed or following the podcast on your platform of choice Apple, spotify, so many other platforms out there If you would take just two seconds right here, right now. Go to the app, tap, follow, tap, subscribe. Whatever it says, it makes sure that you're never gonna miss another amazing episode, like today with Topaz Adizaz. But seriously, you don't know how much it supports the show. It helps us grow, it helps us reach new listeners and attract even more amazing guests like my man, topaz.

03:47 Today, this episode is gonna be your guide to intimate conversations and deeper relationships. Stemming from his new book 12 Questions for Love from Topaz Adizaz, this conversation, in his work, is a distillation of learnings and reflections from holding the space for over 1200 couples to have real conversations over the last 10 years building the Emmy Award-winning series, the, and. Before we jump into today's conversation, I wanna prompt you with a few questions that are really gonna help you maximize your absorption from my conversation with Topaz. When was the last time you asked your partner a truly thought-provoking question that illuminated what was special about your connection? Do you desire a deeper connection, but you're not quite sure how to create it or to keep it? Are you concerned that being vulnerable and leaning into the challenging questions might push your partner away? Well then, today's episode is your antidote to disconnection. My conversation with Topaz is gonna be your roadmap to a more fulfilled, deeper, more vibrant connection with those most important to you.

05:03 Topaz was in studio with me recently, so if you wanna check out the video, I always recommend you do. It's always a vibe in the EverFord Radio studio. You can find us at everforwardradiocom. I have it linked for you down in the show notes for YouTube. You can just go to YouTube and search EverFord Radio and if you do watch the video, it would mean the world to me. If you subscribe to the YouTube channel, smash that thumbs up button and drop a comment. Let us know how you're loving the video vibes of living a life EverFord.

05:29 But before we jump into today with my conversation with Topaz Adiziz, I gotta put you on to a limited time deal from our partners and sponsor today from Legion Athletics. If you're looking for a great pre-workout and post-workout, let me put you on to pulse and recharge. I've been using Legion Athletics for years. I absolutely love the way that they make me feel in the gym and afterwards during recovery, and here's why Pulse is a pre-workout that comes in both stim and non-stim options. I personally go for the non-stim because I like to get my caffeine from coffee, but it's packed with six scientifically proven ingredients for more energy, focus and strength, naturally flavored and sweetened for a great workout without the jitters, no upset stomach or post-workout crash that you're gonna get from a lot of other products out there. Not to mention 54 peer-reviewed studies supporting pulses, ingredients and doses.

06:22 Then post-workout and even on my recovery days I'm reaching for recharge. This is their post-workout that contains effective doses for more muscle and strength, better post-workout repair and less soreness. I mentioned that the creatine in recharge has been micronized, which mixes better with liquid and is way less likely to upset sensitive stomachs. No bloating, no digestive issues. They're having a massive 25% off all pre and post-workout products that's pulse and recharge Right now through Sunday, february 25th. I got this linked for you in the show notes. All you gotta do is go to episoderesources, tap that link, boom, you're taken to the Legion website that's legionathleticscom, and make sure at checkout to support the show and to get double the loyalty points for future deals and savings use code ever forward. But I wanna ask you first to examine your words more closely. Can we have deeper relationships without intimacy? Ooh.

07:26 - Speaker 2 I guess that's a good question I haven't thought about. I mean, that's a great question, so let's look at that. What comes up for me is what is a deeper relationship mean? And then what does intimacy mean? And maybe what comes up for me now and thinking like, oh my, what I'm speaking from comes from 10 years. It comes from a my life experience. I'm 47, I have father of two young boy, a boy and a girl, and so I'm 47, lived, you know. So my responses come from that experience, as well as really profoundly working on the and project for the last 10 years, which is us, my team and I, holding space for over 1200 conversations, people of all you know, grandmothers with grandchildren, husbands and wives, partners, lovers, asking each other questions. So all my experience that I'm sharing with you today is gonna be coming is informed from that.

08:19 - Speaker 1 Such a unique experience on top of lived experience.

08:22 - Speaker 2 Right. So when I, yeah, and I think, when you say that, what comes up for me is what does deeper relationships mean and what does intimacy mean? And I think it's a subjective thing Some people might think what might be a deep relationship to you might not be deep at all for me. What might be intimate for me might not be intimate for you. And there's many forms, there's many of the sides of intimacy, right, there's physical intimacy there's emotional intimacy, there's articulating intimacy.

08:50 I'm riffing on this because this is just what comes up for me from your question, because I haven't really thought of that distinction between the two. What I like to think is what I've seen in my life and what I've seen in the end, regardless of how you define deeper relationships, what it means to your intimacy is that when you step into a space and you ask each other questions that are well constructed, you step into a journey, exploring that space that you haven't had before and that feels like intimacy and that feels like the result of which you then have deeper relationship, and I've heard that from my participants and I've also heard that from our audiences who watch our content on YouTube and Instagram. Social TikTok is that I didn't know this was possible. Boom, we've opened up a new possibility.

09:40 Or the pairs my dad comes in, he's seen us do the live show, he's seen the interactive side, and then he's I don't get it, I don't get it. And we came in and we actually didn't end him and I and afterwards he said now I get it, son. We would have never have had that conversation if we didn't step into that space and weren't presented with those questions, and out of that came a deeper relationship that I had with him. But also I see that with all the participants who do, the end is afterwards. There's an opening. There there's something deeper, there's something you know. They've dug deeper how?

10:13 - Speaker 1 can there not be?

10:13 - Speaker 2 really, in my opinion, yeah, so that's what comes up for me. You ask that question. It's a good question.

10:22 - Speaker 1 Is there sort of a litmus test? One could have to really get honest with himself and ask am I in a deep relationship compared to am I in an intimate relationship? Do I have depth in my relationship or do I have intimacy? You know, how do I know the difference? How can I kind of really gauge the two?

10:42 - Speaker 2 I mean to heart back I would. I need to think about that question more, but I do think there's a. Regardless of how you define depth or intimacy, I do think there's a correlation between the two.

10:54 I personally, believe, so yeah, the deeper you go you know, the more intimate intimacy is required, I agree. Or the more intimacy you have, the deeper spaces you find together. You know the home of your being is deep and when you practice deeper intimacy but there comes discomfort in intimacy. I mean, I know my wife is teaching me a lot about intimacy and she's even said that I'm more intimate now than I was six years ago when we met.

11:19 - Speaker 1 How so, if you don't mind sharing.

11:21 - Speaker 2 I think a very simple way is the way I hold our gaze, when we're holding each other and we're just looking each other's eyes, or when we make love, and how present am I being or not? Yeah, I think, I do think there's a tether relationship to it. I mean, regardless of what you define, what is depth to one? But you ask the litmus test. To me, the litmus test is can you lean and sit in discomfort and explore discomfort? And that's what the questions come in. Right, if you ask a challenging question, what is our biggest challenge right now and what is it teaching us? Are you really gonna talk about the biggest challenge? Or another question we have is you know when is the not necessarily in the book, but that we use in our production for the last 10 years? You know when was the last time you considered leaving me and why didn't you Hoo?

12:18 - Speaker 1 hoo, so you get presented with that.

12:21 - Speaker 2 How willing are you to actually go into that space and talk about you know? Or when was the last time you disappointed me and how do you feel about it now? So these are well-constructed questions that allow you to go into the depths, and what's interesting is that, even if you don't fully answer that question to your partner, they're thinking about what they think you're gonna say and you're thinking yourself how much am I gonna reveal?

12:45 - Speaker 1 The wheel's a turning, whether or not an answer comes out.

12:47 - Speaker 2 And you could feel that just even if you say oh never. But you know inside, well, there was that one time. And they say, well, it was probably that one time. So even though it's unsaid, there is the conversations there. So to me the litmus test is how much are you willing to lean into that and start articulating that and exploring it? And my experience has been where there is discomfort, there's growth. So the path to growth is lit by your fears, is lit by your discomfort. Pursue them wherever they appear. So the litmus test is how much in the relationship can you lean into the discomfort? And we should just be clear between safety and discomfort. They're two different things.

13:24 - Speaker 1 How do you define them?

13:25 - Speaker 2 Well, I think safety is physical safety, emotional safety. If you feel you're in abusive relationship, you're going to. Discomfort is just the next step to you being hurt or abused. But discomfort is, oh, there's something here that is tense, but I know this other person's intention is also for my wellbeing, it's for the wellbeing of our relationship. I know that we're in a constructive space together, even though there's little landmines that we have to might work around. So when you feel discomfort it doesn't necessarily mean that you're not safe, right? So safety is like?

14:01 Am I in a relationship that has mutual trust and respect? And if I do, then that's one indication of safety. Then, in that space of mutual trust, respect, how much uncomfortability, how much discomfort, how much vulnerability can we courageously step into? And just sorry for ranting, no, this is great, but one thing is where we taught that in life we don't get that class in school and university. There's no. You know what I've seen for the last 10 years and the learnings I've had, because I don't see us learning that anywhere else where to have these intimate conversations? That's what I put in the book. Here's the tools, how to do it, here's the mechanics and, on a very prescriptive level, here's 12 questions you could ask, in this order. That will pretty much really offer you the opportunity to have a cathartic conversation with anybody that you're intimate with.

14:57 - Speaker 1 And I've got a few of them pulled that I really want to dive into more specifically, but to kind of piggyback off of something you said I think is so important. Do you think most people, do you think people in traditional relationships more often than not, do their relationship a disservice by confusing discomfort with not feeling safe? Is that kind of a jumping to conclusions Like I'm uncomfortable and I'm therefore just assuming that I'm unsafe, or this relationship isn't safe for me to expand the way that I want to, it's a good question.

15:35 - Speaker 2 And I don't know if I'm equipped to really answer that in terms of what is safety? In terms of, like, toxicity, or emotional, physical?

15:42 - Speaker 1 abuse.

15:43 - Speaker 2 But what I can say is that your ability to lean into challenging questions and not throw them off is stupid questions. Right, because we get that sometimes. Sometimes you ask somebody I've asked somebody in my life, are you happy? And their response was literally don't ask me a stupid question, okay, so okay, where do I go from there?

16:06 - Speaker 1 That's kind of one of the most important questions, I don't know, but to some it is and to some others.

16:10 - Speaker 2 So when you're like one indication to me in a relationship is usually there's a partner who wants to talk and usually there's a partner who doesn't want to talk Can you at least step into the space of the not talking, meaning that one person gets to ask or to express their feelings and the other one can receive, and maybe they don't have to respond, but they can receive. Can we have those conversations and don't discard the question as a stupid one you don't? Like? In the game of the end that we've created, you don't have to answer every question, because it's really hard to have a safe conversation if you're pinned against the wall and you have to answer every question. If you're free to be who you are and you don't have to answer the question, but we can ask it and you can say you know what, I'm not prepared to talk about it. Now, like in the end, when we do a production, one of the rules is you have to answer. You have to ask every question, but you don't have to answer anything you don't want.

17:06 - Speaker 1 So the real power and opportunity comes from the ask, not the answer. Exactly, absolutely.

17:13 - Speaker 2 It's in the asking. You know, I just had a conversation with a family member of mine and I said what's your experience of this issue? And he shared his experience. And then I shared my experience and they were. We were, we had different experiences, but we were not going to fight about whose experiences, right? It's like oh interesting, that's your experience and this is my experience, your experience. You're having actually pissing me off that you had that experience.

17:40 - Speaker 1 The fact that I'm having this experience pisses you off, but you know what?

17:43 - Speaker 2 it's not about winning. I'm like, okay, I got you, I hear you, cool, you hear me. And at least we've had, we've aired it out, we've opened it up on the table, versus eating it up and letting it kind of that emotion and that tension and that you know all these conversations we have in our head. Let's open it up and I think that's a litmus test of how resilient is your relationship, is your ability to be in uncomfortable places and explore it, because if you look at it's interesting. It's like if you think back to your biggest accomplishments, like you, seven years ago, you left the job right 2018, but 2017.

18:20 Yeah, December one right.

18:22 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you left the job. This guy does this.

18:26 - Speaker 2 I'm pretty sure that around that time you were probably shitting yourself and nervous, and there was probably a time within that month, two months, three months later, where something happened that you're like that's it. That's a small accomplishment, I feel great, that's why I left, and it was worth it. So, before every great accomplishment that you feel, that was preceded by a great deal of anxiety and discomfort. That's why, when you see discomfort, lean into it, there's something on the flip side of that of growth, which then can be. If you harness it, the growth properly and share it, it becomes a gift for others too.

19:02 - Speaker 1 My dudes listen up. I got to take just a quick break from my conversation with Tobias today because I have been using the good from Caldera Lab today's sponsor for pushing four years. Now it's my hands down. It is my number one most recommended skincare item for guys. If maybe you don't have a skincare routine or you do and you're not loving or even seeing the results at all, let me put you on to Caldera Lab. This thing is incredible.

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20:21 If that's not enough for you, seriously I love it. I love the good. I've been using it nightly for years and I want to put you on the good game now. In fact, I want you to save some money. At the same time, You're going to save 20% when you head to calderalabcom and use code ever forward for the good or any one of their other amazing skincare items. That's C A, L, D E R A L A B dot com. Caldera lab dot com. Code ever forward for 20% off. As always, this is linked for you down in the show notes under episode resources. And again, not to get nitpicky, but I love what you do and how you do it and I don't think you're the kind of person that would put any word down or put any word on screen or in a piece of content that was not well thought through. Do you really believe that one conversation improves can improve someone's relationship forever?

21:14 - Speaker 2 Absolutely, I actually believe. One question we have a friend, uh Mark Champagne, who wrote a book called personal socrates. Yeah, yeah, his podcast, yeah, yeah. He's been on, and his book, which I beautifully designed, and it's really so well done, really well done.

21:28 He says one question, you're one question away from changing your life and I'm like, yeah, I mean you're 12 powerful questions. You have one moment um, one conversation, even one question, absolutely, I think, one conversation easily. I mean you have here, you have 12 questions. You know you could go to the heart of it and do one question. The advantage of 12 questions, in my opinion, versus one they both work is that this is more of a journey and you're setting up the architecture.

21:56 - Speaker 1 Sure.

21:56 - Speaker 2 Right. So you know, for us the seventh and eighth questions are kind of the cruts, really vulnerable. If I just ask you that now, if you're in a relationship, and I ask you that now, it's coming out of nowhere Okay. But if we build up to that and we build the architecture, the base, with the first three questions talking about our relationship in the past and the memories we've created together and what's special about our relationship and when we feel close each other and we build up through then our conflicts and how we handle them up to the vulnerability, we've built this journey, we built this structure of which we can go deeper.

22:28 - Speaker 1 I'm not trying to jump into the deep end right away with you, you know, let's start in the kiddie pool and start wading our way into the deeper waters.

22:35 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and the more you build, the greater the anchor you build of trust and respect, the greater depths you can plummet into and explore. Because you have that as an anchor, please say that again. So the greater the reason these like when I structure these 12 questions and actually all over. And so basically the book comes from an editor, jill, and from Sasquatch books. He told me up one day just said do you have? Can you take the learnings of the last?

23:02 you know at that time was eight years. Can you take the learning and put into a book? What are the 12 questions that you've seen that really work? And there's a sequence to them. There are, that's why they work. And then, what are those questions? So I put them in and that's what works in this book. And the first part is building the anchor of the past, of what brought us together, right. What is it that's unique about relations that creates these moments that we share? And, by the way, these questions are related to any intimate relationship, which is not just romantic. It could be with your dad, it could be with your brother, it could be with your best friend, could be with your mom, right, your grandson.

23:40 - Speaker 1 I noticed that and I really, I really want to give you guys accolade for that. I think that's so important because a lot of times maybe this is just my misunderstanding when we look at I want to get better at relationships, automatically we go to intimate, we automatically go to boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, partner.

23:57 but I think we're doing ourselves and our current and even future intimate partners a huge disservice by not yet beginning the journey of getting better at relationships. With every relationship, I'm with you. How many problems do we probably have? Or how many unnecessary problems do we have because it's based off poor communication in just general dynamics of a relationship? It really has little to do with the person.

24:25 - Speaker 2 For me, the flip side of that is just wow man, look how many nutrients there are around me that I'm not tapping into, Like if I could have this different. My dad, for example. I've known that guy for many years before we stepped into the end. There's two on YouTube that you could see five years apart. Before that we had many conversations but they kind of followed a certain pattern, kind of fill a certain script because of oh, he's my dad, I'm the son, this is our son, the role, the comfortability, all of a sudden new questions gives opportunities to break that role and create a new space to explore, which is why my dad said, oh, now I get it.

24:56 We would never have that conversation otherwise. And so I think, how many of the relationships do we have in our life that we are almost just walking on? You know, reading the scripts.

25:06 - Speaker 1 Sleepwalking, sleepwalking through the zombie walk.

25:09 - Speaker 2 How do we break that and how do we break that? And I think that once you do look, it's not necessarily going to be comfortable. I mean, sometimes it's totally comfortable and fun and joyous. I did one with a very good friend of mine, justin, and we had seven. I've known this guy for seven, 16 years and it's the first time I've actually done an and it's on YouTube. It was an amazing experience for us. I mean, it blew us up. We knew each other for so long yet we'd never had that conversation. Imagine how many of those moments you could have with people that you're seeing all the time. Yeah, and I think it's a lot of nutrients to mine to utilize to basically give you a better experience of being alive, because you're not just taking those relationships for granted, you're actually mining them for nutrients to fuel you, to give you greater understanding of who you are, who they are, how you're being, how you can be. So wonderful opportunity that we shouldn't miss.

26:01 - Speaker 1 I want the listener and the viewer to really kind of just like, really take a second and let that sink in. Anybody in your life for an extended period of time you've had the same coworkers for years. You've had the same family members for years. You've had the same insert person here for X amount of long period of time, we get a little stale.

26:19 I think it's just human nature. We get a little stale, we get comfortable, you know, and part of that is really great because we have trust, we have comfort, we have safety and unless one individual, or I should say, unless both individuals in that dynamic are consciously and consistently, consistently going up in terms of their growth and challenging themselves, I feel like you probably won't have that challenge dynamic with each other. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if your excuse, if your logic is, I'm gonna have the same conversation. I know what they're going to say. I know what I'm going to say. I know what to expect in this scenario, like here, is the opportunity to flip that on its head. After years of knowing yourself with this person and knowing that person with yourself, there's an opportunity to have that excitement and that you know the honeymoon phase again in any kind of relationship.

27:12 - Speaker 2 And I think that comes down to a the space you create, but then the structure of the questions you ask. So you know, we sell these car games. That's basically our business model. We put these content on conversations online and then we sell these car games.

27:25 - Speaker 1 But you guys got to check out. By the way, I'm going to make sure to link it down, the show notes for everybody.

27:27 - Speaker 2 So. But those car games create the space because you know, if your wife comes to you today and says, chase, why do you love me? You're not wondering why. Why, why do I love? You're not wondering why you love her, you're wondering why she asked me this while I'm washing the dishes, like what's going on?

27:40 - Speaker 1 Is this a trap? Is this a trap?

27:43 - Speaker 2 But if she pulls out the car game and she randomly pulls out a car, he says why do you love me? Oh, so A the space is created. We're playing a card game. She chose it. I know why she's asking me. Great, now, there you go. That creates a space for you to fully let her know and for her to receive the answer. So we oftentimes need the space to create, and that's what these card games do, or this book does, right, it's like how do you create the space? And then well constructed questions. So, for instance, I had one of my mentors is up in Berkeley and I was at his house for dinner with his wife and he's been married maybe like 35, 40 years, all right, all right.

28:17 And they said well, topaz, we don't get, these are just questions. What are the questions Like? Well, they're going to ask unexpected questions you haven't asked before. We've been married 35, 40 years. We've done so much on the sun.

28:25 - Speaker 1 Lay it on me, I know it yeah.

28:27 - Speaker 2 Makes the cars choose a question Boom, pull it out of the couples deck, or longterm couples deck goes when was the first moment? So the wife is asking the husband when was the first moment you knew I knew I loved you? And there, oh, wait, wait, what? When was the first time you knew that I knew I loved you? So now they have to go back and find that moment which they've never asked themselves, so they never went to that moment to explore. And so that's not as a that's not uncomfortable. What that is is the source of joy, like, oh my God, we had these memories. We didn't ask that question to unlock that memory, and now we get to do that. And that's what I mean by these nutrients around us. If we just create the space to ask these questions, well-constructed questions, we can unlock such a great experience for us to share by the things that are closest to us, our relationships.

29:22 - Speaker 1 Kind of going with your recent example. This was just luck of the draw, really. I heard you say that the wife went first, but I had this question prepared about the male-female dynamic and the male-female typical ease in choosing to get deeper, choosing to get more intimate which one, the female than male.

29:42 So my question is you know, I feel like in my experience it's been easier not easy, but easier for females to get more intimate more quickly in terms of communication with their partners. And this is me. I'm just kind of this is my world. I know I'm in a male-female, dynamic heterosexual relationship. I also also speaking on my experience, like it took years for my wife to get me to a point of like truly opening up. She was always more about it and it just seemed easier for her and I wasn't quite there yet. Why do you, would you agree? And if so, why?

30:14 - Speaker 2 So the first distinction that comes up for me is I don't look at as male and female. I look at as masculine and feminine energy.

30:21 Male and female energy which we're not always the same, like you know, maybe at work you're masculine energy, maybe at home you're feminine energy.

30:29 Maybe, you know, maybe with one person you're more masculine and when with another person you're feminine.

30:34 So these are energies that we, we step into, that we feel. That's how I see it and I'm still exploring it, you know, because we have a lot of conversations now with non-binary and like is this idea of masculine and feminine energy even valid or not? And I'm I'm I'm investigating that and I'm not quite sure. But from my current standpoint, kind of what I see things and I'm still exploring, is there's a masculine and feminine energy and what I generally find is the feminine energy likes to explore, it, likes to look at the whole thing holistically and talk about it and feel it, and the masculine energy likes challenge, likes challenge very pointed and challenge, and so generally what? From my perspective, what I've seen is that generally the feminine energy in the partnership what, even if it's a family members or brings the other masculine energy to have a conversation, like hey yeah, or sometimes you have two feminine energies that have a conversation and they they talk for a long time and they really explore so much.

31:40 Or you have two masculine energies to that are together, that are curt and direct and they're almost cut through because they like challenge. So when they're posed with a question they're going to answer it and they're not going to talk around, they're going to go boom. So what's interesting when you have so you sometimes have two masculine energies or two feminine energies, or masculine and feminine energy, and what's interesting with the masculine and feminine energy is that you bring the feminine energy, brings a masculine, and then when they start talking and then all of a sudden the questions start going deep and really hitting the spot and the feminine energy might say wait a sec you know we don't need to talk about that now but then the masculine energy, because they're in a challenge like there's this question we're going to go there.

32:21 Then the masculine energy takes it deeper and there's that nice interplay, or sometimes the masculine energy does not want to talk about it and the feminine is to create training, create space and welcoming that conversation because it's needed, right, and so that's kind of the paradigm by which I'm currently looking through it, but also questioning if it's valid. You know, how valid is that? Or how different is that in lieu of non binary? And to me, we have these energies and sometimes we're in them and sometimes we're, you know, in the middle maybe, and we're not.

32:51 - Speaker 1 So yeah, valid point. Great response, Thank you, and I think I think most people could say, if they have been in or are in a relationship, typically one person is way more ready to go there. Yeah is more, probing is more. Hey, let's talk about this stuff, let's get deeper. Or you might even hear it in a nagging negative way, like, oh, he always wants to go there, she always wants to open up and have these deep conversations, or, you know, I answered the question. Isn't that enough?

33:22 Like you know, I feel like there's always one person in the relationship that is just like come on, come on, come on.

33:27 - Speaker 2 Yeah, a little bit more, Because it's their language. You know there's many ways of feeling intimate, right? I mean you can. You can do the eye presence, looking each other's eyes and just breathing together and really hit deep, profound moments of connection. And there's a lot going on without a word and there's other people and one person is really comfortable that someone else is really uncomfortable.

33:47 - Speaker 1 Oh yeah.

33:49 - Speaker 2 And some people words and they can really talk. While that's comfortable one person, the other person is not, and so I suggest is these tools are for articulation, and what I call emotional articulation is taking our emotions and putting words to that, which is one of the great skill sets that we have as human beings.

34:05 - Speaker 1 Is actually what makes us one of the greatest right. It's our ability to put emotions and ideas into words, share them and then by that, the fact that we can just open our mouth and noise comes out and that noise gets interpreted as an idea, is an emotion, right, it gives me a physical reaction, it blows my mind.

34:23 - Speaker 2 Amazing. So it's an opportunity to utilize that skill. That's not to say you shouldn't use other skills, like gifts of service as a sign of intimacy and love or acts of service or gifts or, you know, presence, but I just think that we have this ability to speak and when, if you are in a situation where you want to have the conversation, your partner doesn't forcing them will not work, but inviting them to have an experience that doesn't have a right or wrong. It does not have a winner or loser. It has a being, it hasn't. We are just going to have this experience and it doesn't have to.

34:59 So when one person invites the other maybe their intent on really wanting to get somewhere then we're already losing. We have this experience and whatever it's going to be is going to be, and then tomorrow we can have another one, or in a month we can have another one, and by doing that you start honing both of you the ability to emotional articulation, and that's just. I think that's what's helpful. Yeah, it's just out of experience. You know, I have a lot of friends that have one friend named Wolfie and he always jokes that he's like God damn Topaz Cause every time he gets in the car ride with his wife and they do a road trip she pulls out the questions or the app and he's like God damn Topaz.

35:40 You know like but he says that jokingly but also that's a wonderful opportunity for them to have this regular road trip. That gives them a journey beyond what they're seeing on the road. They give them this emotional journey and when they get out of that car and out of that conversation, they're in a different spot. They were when they got in, not just because they arrived in this spot.

36:00 - Speaker 1 An ordinary task went somewhere emotionally made possible by an extraordinary experience.

36:05 - Speaker 2 Yeah, say that again.

36:07 - Speaker 1 An ordinary task possible by an extraordinary experience, yeah.

36:11 - Speaker 2 I'm nice. I almost missed that, if I didn't ask you Interesting.

36:15 - Speaker 1 Sometimes I word good, sometimes I word good.

36:16 - Speaker 2 Oh, you were good I heard some good stuff. Well, I got a quick question.

36:22 - Speaker 1 Oh sure.

36:22 - Speaker 2 Yeah, why did you have us on? Why did you invite like this project onto your podcast?

36:29 - Speaker 1 I agreed to this conversation because, honestly, immediately, the title of your work 12 questions for love I was intrigued by. And then once I kind of really looked at how you went about it, how you and your team over the years have really decided to translate questions through various methods of video of long format, and just just the way that you go about introducing questions to the world, but more so, introducing questions lived by real people yeah, I mean, there was just such an incredible emotional connection that me personally, I live for, I love questions, I run a podcast, I am so intrigued by intrigue, I'm so curious about curiosity and also I know that over the years, the most amount of growth that I've ever had as a human being has come from being on the recipient of these hard questions, has been receiving these questions that I've been dodging and ignoring and not wanting to not even get to an answer for.

37:36 But, to your point, you know, be in the experience of has and there's no denying that now, the most profound change has come from being in the hot seat, so to speak.

37:46 - Speaker 2 Yeah.

37:47 - Speaker 1 And that's a big part of how I kind of curate the content here on the show is what have I lived through? What am I living through and how can I bring in somebody to unpack it in a deeper, longer way?

38:00 - Speaker 2 So did you play these 12 questions with your wife?

38:02 - Speaker 1 Not yet, not yet, not yet.

38:06 - Speaker 2 She even know about the book.

38:07 - Speaker 1 You're like but book.

38:09 It's been sitting on my dining room table in prep for last week. Yeah, so she's seen it Absolutely and, you know, kind of even getting into those some of the core questions there. A lot of this stuff her and I we've definitely covered. We love to talk about through such experiences, you know, as just having intimate experiences in general, we love just doing the most mundane things but making it extraordinary, you know, by just, you know, asking questions and, you know, even revisiting questions that we talked about before. Her and I both were very to my like, example, earlier. We're both kind of like running parallel. We're both growth oriented, growth minded, challenging ourselves and really wanting more of ourselves so that we have more to offer each other.

38:50 And so we run into as independent vessels, but running, running parallel, and that way we're always together.

38:56 And so we love questions and stuff like this. We love kind of that squirm of like we're going there, all right, all right. So probably more so me. Now she jokes that she kind of like created a monster because, like I said years ago, man, I kept everything in. I don't want to feel uncomfortable, I don't want to have hard conversations. I just wanted to like I was still very much kind of like militant mode when we met. I had just been out of the army for a couple of years and I still really hadn't shed that kind of approach to conversations. I'm like just give me the bare details. I'm going to give you the bare details. What do I need in order to get this done? I'm going to get it done and that's it and the human experience. You know, humans need details, human needs. We need more, to you know, in order to just not just survive but thrive.

39:39 - Speaker 2 So I just want to add to that. I'm thinking about some of your viewers or listeners who are listening and then thinking well, I don't want to have you know, I don't want to have to like verbal diarrhea of just downloading my thoughts. And why do I have to go there? That's not what I'm suggesting, or the series in the book. What I'm suggesting is creating the space for humans to be humans, which means you get to react and respond any way that you do. That's the level and the space that you're in. That's how you communicate.

40:05 But just asking the questions allows us to be in that space. And what do I mean by that is just like an image is worth a thousand words, an emotion is worth a thousand thoughts. So, instead of spending your time describing the image with a thousand words, just look at the image. Instead of describing a thousand thoughts that's running through your head, just sit in the emotion. And by asking the question it doesn't mean you have to give a thousand words, you can give five and sit in the space with your partner in that emotion and let it be. We don't need to resolve it, we just let it be and sit through that emotion. And by letting you sit through the emotion and going through it. It's like you've gone through a thousand thoughts, thousand thought processes. So that's what I'm suggesting is being in the space doesn't necessarily mean you have to talk for three hours, but you can ask the question, you can explore it, you can sit in the emotion of that exploration and letting it be.

41:03 - Speaker 1 Okay, maybe this is just me again, but I feel like a lot of people probably have been in this scenario where you're in the conversation, you're having that hard talk or just the necessary talk, and there's the expectation that resolution has to come to the end of this experience. Is that the case or not, and where do we go from there if there is no resolution from that experience?

41:26 - Speaker 2 Well, I think that's why it's part of creating the space. Are we having a meeting now to come to a solution and then execute the solution, or are we having a meeting to explore, or?

41:34 - Speaker 1 is this the meeting before the meeting, exactly?

41:37 - Speaker 2 Maybe it's the meeting. I think it's very important to know what is the intention of this conversation and, yes, sometimes you have to make a decision with someone, so there's different parts to it. Maybe you have to start with articulating your point of view my point of view, my experience, my experience exploring it, and if we have to get to a solution, we have to decide at what phase do we move from talking about experiences to then having a constructive conversation, to getting to a solution.

42:06 And maybe you want to split into two conversations. You know the card game that I have are more about the exploration, not necessarily get to result oriented solution. But if you need to have that conversation, be aware of the steps that are necessary in order to get there and don't rush it, Maybe part of it. Oftentimes a lot of people have fights, if you will, or conflict, not because the right or wrong, but because they haven't been heard.

42:34 - Speaker 1 Oh.

42:35 - Speaker 2 Right, yeah, and just having the active, okay, we're in a conversation, we know we have to get a solution. Before I'm trying to argue for my solution, I go okay, chase, what I heard you just say is is that what you just said? And then you can say, yeah, I'm dope, that's what I said. Thanks for hearing me, I got you. Or you say, no, that's not what I said, man. And then you say it again until I play it back to you. You feel like you've been heard. You can physiologically relax because you know that you've been heard. I've seen it from your side and now I can respond with the next step and we. That puts us more on the same page. That's what I learned from a good friend of mine, richard Tripp, who's a software project manager guru. He calls it creative listening, but he taught me that.

43:20 And I think that's really helpful. I mean, I love that.

43:23 - Speaker 1 I hope everyone listening right now just kind of sponge that up, because I mean, I definitely did, and it's a great reminder of how often in relationships any kind of relationship do we think that we need to get to a resolution or we think that the other person is looking for a resolution or solution, when it's really just about we just want to be fucking heard. Yeah, I want to be heard, you want to be heard. Yeah, if everybody in every relationship and every conversation could effectively and consistently be heard, man, that relationship is going to do so much better.

43:56 - Speaker 2 And even when they say heard, it's really I want to be seen.

43:59 - Speaker 1 Heard, seen, felt. We say heard, and that is what it is, but it's being seen.

44:02 - Speaker 2 It's being heard, it's being seen. I hear you, I feel you, I see you. We still have this shitty problem we have to solve. But I got you, you got me. We disagree, but we got to solve this problem. That feels a lot better than trying to solve this without seeing you or you trying to solve that without seeing me yeah, that's just a transaction.

44:21 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, some relationships might just be transactional, I guess. But I think in the context we're talking, not so much.

44:28 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and that just yeah.

44:30 - Speaker 1 So kind of getting to the core questions of the book and the work in the tools. If you stood out to me that I want to kind of dive into with you Right, and you know, we kind of kind of touched on this a little bit, but you talk about our need to stop looking for answers and to create better questions. So I just want to flat out ask you what makes a good question.

44:49 - Speaker 2 Okay. So there's in the book. I outlined two things there's what makes a good question in the framework of a relationship and there's five things, and there's what makes a good question when you're asking yourself. So, in terms of relationship, you know, a well constructed question is a one that's non binary, doesn't end in the yes or no. Do you love me? Yes, no, okay, done. Moving on Better questions why do you love me? What does my love feel like? You're okay, you can't just answer with a yes and no. Let's just explore that. Another one is this is a big one is let's ask questions that are actually do you want me to go into the five things or?

45:29 - Speaker 1 Sure yeah, is that helpful?

45:30 - Speaker 2 Yeah, please, so what? The other second one is ask questions that are constructive, right? Not like why do we fight so much? Well, you'll get, you'll get a whole list of why we fight so much, versus why do we fight and what is our biggest fight and what is it teaching us? Okay, so now there's a lesson in the fight and I have to find that.

45:50 - Speaker 1 It's a mindset show. It's a mindset show.

45:51 - Speaker 2 Our minds are like dogs that chase after sticks. The question you ask is the stick and where you're throwing it. So be aware of where you're throwing the stick. Why are you throwing the stick in the river every time You're gonna get wet? Throw it in the print, you know. Throw it in a beautiful spot where you can see the sunset, you know.

46:07 - Speaker 1 I'm going on a metaphor here.

46:08 - Speaker 2 Point is we wake up in the morning oh shit, I got to go to work today. We don't realize that that's the first thought you have, for example, if you do or you go oh my God, great, I'm going to go do this today, I can't wait. We don't realize that. Before we said that, or we had that feeling, there was a question. The question was what am I have to do today? What am I excited about today? If you're aware of the question, if you're aware of where you're throwing that stick, your mind will go and find answers to that.

46:38 - Speaker 1 So there's really a question before every other question.

46:41 - Speaker 2 Well, every answer Okay.

46:43 So if you have an answer I'm just giving an example in the morning, you know I have to go do this today Well, there was a question that made me give that answer Right. So, in a relationship, ask questions that are constructive. You know, why are you such an asshole? Where's that going to get you? How about, like, why do I, why are you acting so unhelpful and what do you think? How do you think that makes me feel? You know, now you put you them in your shoes, right? So Just be aware that the question shapes the answer. So ask questions that give you an opportunity, that gives you agency, empowerment. It can be constructive.

47:19 - Speaker 1 The question shapes the answer, absolutely. The question shapes the answer.

47:23 - Speaker 2 Wow, just like a course shapes the race. Yeah, the question shapes the answer.

47:28 - Speaker 1 My mind immediately goes to you know my background on health and fitness of just the style of training that you adopt is going to mold literally what you look like. I feel like most crossfitters all look the same. You know, most bodybuilders look the same, power lifters look the same, yogis look the same. The question molds, the answer, the training, the modality builds, the identity builds the physical presence.

47:56 - Speaker 2 Absolutely what we practice we get good at. So be aware of the questions you ask.

48:03 So you know, is it an yes or no question? You know, don't ask a yes or no question Because it's so simple with a yes, no, it doesn't give you any information, it doesn't give you an explore. You know what is a constructive question. Is it acknowledging the third part? Is this a good knowledge or connection? So if I ask you what are you scared of? And your wife asks you what are you scared of and the guy at Starbucks goes hey, chase, what are you scared of? You're probably going to answer the same question. The same way I'm scared of snakes. But if I ask you, what do you think is our mutual fear that we share, if I ask you that and your wife asked you that and the barista asked you that at Starbucks, you're going to give three different answers Because you're acknowledging our connection. So, in the scope of relationship, ask questions that also acknowledge the relationship. It's not. What do you think about love?

48:49 - Speaker 1 That goes back to your point earlier of. You can't not felt hurt in that scenario if you reframed the question.

48:54 - Speaker 2 Right if you reframed it and you're acknowledging the other than the connection. Hey, I'm here too.

48:58 - Speaker 1 We are both here.

48:59 - Speaker 2 Like ask the question that acknowledges the unique person you're speaking to and your connection to them, right? The other one is make it unexpected and surprising, so that you're connecting two things that are not as connected, like what does making money cost me or cost you, oh wow. Or how does conflict make us better? Oftentimes we don't think conflict makes better. So if you're connecting two things in an unexpected way, that forces you to explore that in another way. Another version of that is to ask questions that put the other person in your shoes or put you in their shoes, right.

49:36 - Speaker 1 That's why Both are necessary.

49:38 - Speaker 2 Not necessary, but it's just helpful in terms of constructing Both are helpful.

49:41 - Speaker 1 Helpful in constructing better questions.

49:43 - Speaker 2 Right. So those are ways of constructing good questions in a form of relationship. And then I have another one in terms of how to construct good questions when you're asking yourself a question Huge, please.

49:53 - Speaker 1 Yeah, what is?

49:54 - Speaker 2 that, so that really comes to look. Don't look for the answer, do not when you're asking yourself a question and you find yourself I can't figure this out, I can't figure this out, I can't figure this out, what is it? And you're like stop, take all your energy, don't spend energy on the answer. Put energy in creating 30 or 40 other questions.

50:15 - Speaker 1 Right, this is so huge.

50:17 - Speaker 2 So, like what should I do with my life? Holy shit, how do you answer that question?

50:21 - Speaker 1 Because then you automatically assume you're not doing anything with your life and you have to find the solution for your life right there and there.

50:26 - Speaker 2 What my life is. 80 years, 40 years, like, what are we talking about? So there's three parts. A, you get three blank spots and when you make 30 questions, you just put in different things in the three blank spots. The first blank spot is time. We're talking about the next three days. We're talking about the next five weeks. We're talking about the next five years. Next, one middle is how does it make me feel? Am I feeling challenged? Am I feeling vital? Am I feeling healthy? Am I feeling like I'm contributing? What am I feeling? And then, how does it make others feel? Right, give it a time.

50:57 So, what should I do with my life? Okay, how many people think about that? A lot of, I know. I did. Stop for a sec, right, go, okay, stop. All right, let's do this Question. Let's do 30 questions. What do I do for the next three weeks? What do I do for the next five months? What do I do for the next six years? That makes me feel challenged, that makes me feel inspired, that makes me that I can learn a lot. That will give me a steep learning curve. That will okay. That will contribute to my community. That will help my family. That will inspire my friends, that will support my friends, that will make my partner feel more in love with me or create a more intimate relationship. Just fill in these three spots and then you look at them and you go. You know what. That's the question I want to answer. That's the one that gives me goosebumps, that gets me excited, that gets constructed from like. That's the one I worthwhile for me to answer. And then guess what the answer like is very obvious.

51:49 - Speaker 1 I mean, think about it If how many of us have asked a hard question or just asked a question and immediately gone to I need to find a solution With that one question. There's going to be a series of events that have to happen in order to get to that solution and you're only going to act in accordance to the way that that question was posed, how it feels and what you think are logical next steps. But if you have the same solution, same destination you want to get to, but you have 30, a dozen help.

52:17 Just five other questions to support that. It's like the same epicenter, but now you are drawing. I don't math. Good, what is it? The radius?

52:25 - Speaker 2 or circumference. You're building other paths around it, that it's the same distance to get there, but now you have figured out a different way to get there that is more in alignment with what you probably want to do and, frankly, maybe you think this is the spot you want to go and then you realize I actually want to get here and you're like, oh wait, this is actually better than here.

52:42 - Speaker 1 You've got to 4D the problem in question. You've got to 4D it.

52:45 - Speaker 2 I think we just in Western society, we spend so much time on having answers and spend more time on shaping the question, creating a question and choosing the question that you want to answer.

52:55 - Speaker 1 Man, this is so good, this is so good.

52:58 - Speaker 2 That's one of the biggest learnings that I learned, and then I oftentimes forget about. So, whenever you feel stymied on something and you can't figure out an answer, stop thinking about the answer. Create 30 versions of the question and then choose the one that you're inspired by, and I guarantee you the answer will be much clearer.

53:13 - Speaker 1 This is such a mind fuck Like this is so much to quote a homie, cal Callahan. He has a great podcast and content called the Great Unlearned. We have to advance in life, to move forward, to have better relationships, to ask better questions. I think really we need to navigate the unlearning process first, of how to ask questions and how to proceed to find the solutions, how to get to the answers.

53:38 - Speaker 2 And also what we call ourselves, what we name ourselves. We often, I know, from 20 to 37, I saw myself as I'm a film director, so I told myself I'm a film director, okay, well then, what does a film director do? Well, they do these things, and therefore I was doing those things. Then I had an experience. I was 37, and I realized, well, shit, I'm not a actually at. That experience is a big learning. I wanted to share with you is one of the things I learned was that I was waiting for my dad to die to be the man I wanted to be Was he ill, or are you just no?

54:13 he was fine. But, my life at that point. At that point, I had this vision of telling my father's story and film format and winning an Oscar, and blah, blah, blah and I realized, holy shit, I'm waiting for my dad to die to be the man I wanna be, and why am I not? So then here came another question why am I not being the man I know I can be and sharing that with my dad? Now, boom. But that was a profound learning for me and at the same time, I learned hey.

54:47 I'm not a film director, I'm a story breaker. And by give myself the name story breaker, what does that mean? Look, we all tell ourselves stories and then something happens that breaks your story. You get two hip surgeries, you meet the love of your life, you get divorced, you become a father. Something happens that breaks your story and forces you to create a new one. I said you know what, If I gave myself that name, I'm a story breaker. That allows me possibly doing so many other things writing a book, creating a car game, interactive live show or an app. All of a sudden, these other things open up to me that are not open because I saw myself as a film director. So the names we give ourselves, the names we give things, also kind of constrains how we see it and engage with it. So shifting that thinking is also helpful.

55:39 - Speaker 1 I wonder if there's something to be said around for men that age. I literally I lead this mentorship, the Everford mentorship, and running it every year for like since 2018. And within it, one of the guys I was speaking with the other day. We were talking about just epigenetics, but also what is it about particularly the guys we reached this certain age. All the stories I've heard it's around between 35 and 38. I think really 36 is kind of that sweet spot.

56:06 36, 37 maybe and it's just kind of. We have this most come to Jesus moment, existential crisis, or we just begin to really question things. Maybe we don't even have really a crisis, but for some reason there's a flip that gets switched, a switch that gets flipped, and I was thinking like that really happened for me.

56:25 But to what to what to what? To just like to your point of A Jesus moment, to what Of? How am I living my life? How do I want to live my life? Am I living my life waiting for something to happen? Am I waiting my life, waiting on some other form of identity to step in, getting permission from somebody else? Or can I just live the life that I want now? Am I just trying to wait for the thing to happen instead of just making it happen? There's some kind of switch that just goes on.

56:54 For a lot of guys and every guy I've talked to has been around this kind of same age and I think back to my dad. He was like 36-ish, 37 maybe, when he completely he had like a. He got out of the military, he was going through some like odd jobs, random jobs, trying to just get by, and then he completely just decided to take his life by you know the horns and went into business for himself and we opened up like four or five copy houses and restaurants and you know he fully stepped into being his own boss and entrepreneur and creating all this stuff for my family. And how old were you when that happened? I would have been 11, maybe 12, 11, going on.

57:34 - Speaker 2 So he was already a father. He was already supporting the family and working. Yeah, okay.

57:39 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and then for me, 36 is when I kind of I went through all of my deep rooted work around all of my life and what I was doing, what I wasn't doing with the questions I wasn't asking myself, the questions I wasn't allowing other people to ask of me because I thought, to your point, you know like I'm Chase, I'm this person, I'm this. I have blinders on. I didn't start being Chase until 36. I didn't even know what Chase wanted. I didn't even know what he looked like. I didn't know how to act in a just daily existence.

58:06 - Speaker 2 Were you already married at that point?

58:08 - Speaker 1 Yep.

58:09 - Speaker 2 So what does your wife say about the new Chase or the newer Chase, does she? How does she feel about the newer Chase? Does she feel the same way? Cause, who did she fall in love with versus now, for instance?

58:19 - Speaker 1 My wife would say and I'm pretty sure we've been asked a flavor of this question before she would say that she always kind of knew this was in there in me, or else she wouldn't have been around this long. She a quick fun fact so she's Iranian, american, first generation Persian. Her first name is Mastana and that means spiritually intoxicated. Wow, and that is the greatest thank you, it's the greatest summary of who she is as a person. And there is this like so many people just come up to her and just like, oh, like this might just be LA, but like like what are you? What is it? Like your energy? Like they, so many people feel safe around her, so many people open up to her. There's just this spiritual intoxication to her that is so unparalleled.

59:06 And she has said and would say that she knew that this was inside of me. It was just a matter of you, on your own terms, on your own time. You've got to get there, and I did. And by the time this happened, we had been married for just shy of five years, like four or five years, but we'd been coming up for almost 10 years together total, and so once it happened she was just like once it happened for me. She was kind of like oh, thank God, like I can let my hair down now you know, yeah, yeah, Well, there's more to come.

59:40 - Speaker 2 You're gonna like I'm 47. And I the where I'm at now, I find is now it's about me, Other. The only thing that I care about is A how can I contribute more to the world, the society, community, whatever that means, which is, you know, the end is this powerful format. So how do I contribute more? And then B, how do I raise my children so that I can give them the best shot of pursuing their passions and expressions to offer value to their colleagues as they grow up Like? Those are the two things that I Beautiful goals.

01:00:11 That's it. And someone asked me what was your goal with the book? It's like I don't have a goal with the book. The book is an offering. If people accept it, they accept it. If they don't, they don't. It's an offering. And I'm gonna continue with taking what life offers me. And whereas before I was trying to control it and like this is what I want, now it's opening up and being how can I buy a service and offer my gifts or value to others and life will direct me in the right way. That's a real interesting journey for me.

01:00:42 Huge and I was not like that. And so 37, it switched to Storybreaker and now, 10 years later, I'm wondering do I need to give myself another name to create other possibilities?

01:00:52 - Speaker 1 You know, and I'm exploring that it might just take that right. It might just take you or anybody just contemplating what new name would I give myself, what new title, what new identity. You know, just thinking about that is gonna get you to think, act, be, do differently.

01:01:06 - Speaker 2 Yeah, if you think about it, in some indigenous cultures and by no means do I have a right to speak about indigenous cultures, but you know there is that idea that you have in some that you have a different name every seven, eight years Because you're in different cycles, just like if you look in your own life in Western society, maybe of different nicknames. Maybe at some point your nickname turtle doesn't work anymore because you're 35 now and your friends call you turtle and you secretly hate it. Maybe you have different names to give yourself that you can give yourself when. My kids you know my daughter her nickname is Mystic Quill.

01:01:40 - Speaker 1 That's her name Mystic Quill.

01:01:41 - Speaker 2 Yeah, my wife came up with that. I don't know why, but I love it. I don't even Mystic Quill, I don't know, and she is that, but she's not gonna be that forever. She's gonna have another name in three months, six weeks, in a year. You know and so do we acknowledge that of ourselves, that we can have different names. Maybe we use the same name on the surface, but inside, how we see ourselves as a reflection. We should allow ourselves for that reflection to change. And that's where, for me, it comes into being graceful. Like, are you graceful with the challenges in your life, in the relationships in your life, when you have these things that are like grinding against you as a challenge? Are you graceful and easy with that, Because they're gonna grind but they're gonna make you smooth?

01:02:21 - Speaker 1 Oh shit, it's oh dude, that's so good. I'm having a little moment with that one.

01:02:27 - Speaker 2 That was good. Right, that was good. That was good. I think the first yeah, but that's what I'm tripping on these days, you know, oh wow, oh, dude, that's so good.

01:02:37 - Speaker 1 All right, so I would kind of picking up from the tools there.

01:02:40 - Speaker 2 Yeah, oh, by the way, you should ask your question I think it's. The second question is what was your first impression of me, and how has it changed over time, about what we're just talking about?

01:02:50 - Speaker 1 Yeah, because you've changed.

01:02:51 - Speaker 2 I'd be interested to see how she answers that because your first impression was this, which may be fond love, but that has changed over time. Do we acknowledge that? I would love you're gonna send me a video of her answering that.

01:03:03 - Speaker 1 I will. I will Honestly, even. It's even funnier because I know her first impression of me. What, all right, so this is gonna make me look like shit, but it's kind of I don't know where to begin. When she first met me, when she first saw me, a period of almost like eight, nine months went by before we ever actually met. I was working in this coffee house.

01:03:27 - Speaker 2 Oh, she saw you, but you didn't meet. She saw me she never confronted me.

01:03:30 - Speaker 1 She was just like this story kind of makes me look like a douche, but also like makes me sound really great at the same time. So she never approached me because she was like he's just this hot guy, I want some eye candy in this coffee house. Like I don't, you know, it's never gonna happen, kind of thing. But like oh, my God, just wanna come in here all the time. And then almost a year later we actually did meet. Long story short. My brother called me over and said, hey, I got some girls coming over.

01:03:59 - Speaker 2 Like.

01:03:59 - Speaker 1 I think you know my girl could get with your girl kind of thing. And so I was like, cool, cool, cool, be right over. And then I walked in and she's like, oh my, the coffee shop that I worked at was called Rev it Up. And I walked in and she freaked out to her girlfriend. She's like, oh my God, rev Boy is here. So she freaked her shit. Rev Boy, rev Boy I was just known as Rev Boy out in the world. She's like he's real, Like he's here now. Long story short, we got married.

01:04:24 - Speaker 2 So how long after that?

01:04:28 - Speaker 1 We got married about like two and a half years later. Okay, but I mean, but we literally that's funny the second we met we haven't really been apart since Wow, it's incredible. But I asked her. I was like, once I found out about that story I was like, why didn't you say anything? Whatever she's like, I was really into douchebags back then and I was like, wait, so did you call me a douchebag? You were giving douchey vibes, you know, you look like this douchebag baseball player, like in her college team.

01:04:56 - Speaker 2 I was like is it something I was?

01:04:58 - Speaker 1 doing or saying she said no, it's just how you look. I was like thanks, I think I don't know. But that's actually come up a couple of my other friends, like before I actually ever meet people and I always say I think it's just because, like, I have good, literally, I think it's because of my posture and how I carry myself, which I credit the military.

01:05:17 I'm always upright, I'm always seated right, I'm always walking straight and a lot of people interpret that as like look at this douchebag. I have so many great friends in my life. Now They'll tell me like Chase, when I first saw you, when I first met you, I thought you were a douchebag. Yeah, I was like why, Just because I stand?

01:05:30 - Speaker 2 up straight. Well, it's interesting like we judge a book by its cover.

01:05:33 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:35 - Speaker 2 And how do you get below the? How do you start reading the book? You got to ask questions, but yeah, so I would love to ask her that and kind of get her response.

01:05:42 - Speaker 1 But, like I already know, she's gonna say I thought you were a douchebag, Thought you were some hot douchebag and I thought we were gonna hook up and that was it.

01:05:47 - Speaker 2 But now you're like this it's like I can't get rid of you. No, I can't get you to shut up, I can't get rid of you. Oh, I love that story, but hey, that's the way it's said. What's your nickname for her?

01:05:58 - Speaker 1 B, b B, just the letter B and it's kind of it's been this condensed version of we used to call each other, like in text it was like BB, like it was like a cute little nickname years ago B-E-E, b-e-b, BB or short for bebe, baby. Yeah, we're just collectively getting more lazy over the years, I guess. But now we just call each other B yeah, or I'll call her maybe, so she goes by middle name. May I'll call her maybe for baby.

01:06:26 - Speaker 2 Oh nice, but we kind of just say each other B basically. Nice, yeah. What about you and your?

01:06:30 - Speaker 1 wife.

01:06:31 - Speaker 2 I call her Amante.

01:06:32 - Speaker 1 What does that?

01:06:32 - Speaker 2 mean, that means my lover.

01:06:34 - Speaker 1 Ah, okay, when I first met.

01:06:35 - Speaker 2 She's Mexican. I met her in Guadalajara and I was trying to be all like sexy and cool with my not so good Spanish and I just called her Amante, which was kind of like amor, and basically in Mexico you use Amante for your lover you like for your side, lover not your wife or your lover, your little side piece. So but I didn't know that and it just kind of stuck. And now and the funny thing is where we were like shopping.

01:07:06 - Speaker 1 What happens when people hear that?

01:07:08 - Speaker 2 Yeah, when I hear like I'll be in Mexico or something and say, amante, we're like somewhere, target, walmart or something, buying something at a shop. And then there's an old one who like looks over Probably other guys like it's not a public word. It's not a public word. You don't call it Amante or baby.

01:07:22 - Speaker 1 Baby.

01:07:22 - Speaker 2 Amante.

01:07:24 - Speaker 1 Thank you for sharing that. That's funny, that's funny.

01:07:27 - Speaker 2 Of course.

01:07:29 - Speaker 1 I want to ask one other question, kind of wrap up the tool section here Deep listening. I love this part in your work, quote the ability to let your partner's words into your body and hear how they resonate with it. Talk to us about deep listening, so it kind of came from.

01:07:48 - Speaker 2 in the end we have these people facing each other, asking each other questions that we give them and we did a blind date. We did a blind date series early on.

01:07:58 - Speaker 1 And there was a question In this format.

01:07:59 - Speaker 2 Yeah, in this format. You can see them on YouTube and just for those who are listening, the reason the end is powerful is because we have two people facing each other, presented with questions, and we film both their faces at the same time.

01:08:10 - Speaker 1 And again for the listeners, viewers, the end is the name of this series. That is the title of the series that you're talking about, Emmy award-winning series, by the way.

01:08:17 - Speaker 2 And so there are blind dates and one of the questions is why do you think I'm still single? And then I started hearing the same answer and it was amazing because we had all these different kinds of people and it was their first answer and I was like, wow, and the answer was because you're still figuring yourself out. You're still figuring yourself out, which I thought was really interesting because, yeah, there's something to figure out. How better of a way to figure yourself out in the dance of a relationship with someone else. It's hard to figure yourself out in a room cave alone. Truly, you're not being tested. How are you?

01:08:54 - Speaker 1 in the dance? There's no mirror.

01:08:56 - Speaker 2 So I said, well, what's that about? Is that really the truth? Or is that because there's some type of societal programming or some cultural mantra that we use and I think about? We kind of go off of scripts a lot in order to like how's your day or what's the weather, like no, we have these kind of go-to scripts. We have these kind of go-to ideas that just make it easy for us to get by and stop being more efficient with our energy and our time, which I get. But if you're in a deep conversation really exploring a relationship, you're investing that relationship. Let's make sure we're not just answering the societal programming, and that's what I realized. Deep listening is tap into the body. Take a moment, see what does it feel in the body? Because the body is a great kind of antenna for things.

01:09:48 - Speaker 1 So deep listening is really deep feeling.

01:09:50 - Speaker 2 It's deep feeling. It's deep feeling when, oftentimes, we're listening to someone, we're thinking about our response to them. And is that response? Because you want to make yourself sound smart, win an argument, make sure that they feel like you're present. What is it that you're or? Can you listen to your body? Can you take in and see how you're physically reacting to it? How's your intuition? And sometimes you're going to sit with that, see what comes up and then respond, and when you do that you're off script. Now You're actually in another spot, that you're not regurgitating the same patterns that you do with this person or with society that you've kind of been ingrained in us. You're actually exploring your being and what comes up.

01:10:34 One person who does it there's a few people on the end that have seen do this a lot and one of them is Ben from Sidra and Ben. They've been back nine times over 10 years. The first time they came on Sidra was about was two weeks away from giving birth to Naya, and today we just released a conversation between Sidra and Naya, who's nine, naya's nine. Ben and Sidra come back eight or nine times, which is a beautiful thing about the project and Ben and Sidra both, particularly Ben and Sidra. Both. They're both really good deep listeners. When they ask each other, they take a deep breath. Ben never responds until he has eye contact with his wife, sidra, and from him I learned I'm like wow, and others I learned as well.

01:11:19 When you're asked a question, why are we rushing to an answer? Let's check in with our bodies, and that's also because you don't have to get it right. If you get it right, you let the brain run over and you'll give something that, like, gives you a chance of being right. But we're not here to be right and we're not here to win. We're here to explore. We're here deep and we're exploring new patterns in our relationship. So check in with the body, because the body's got a lot of information for you, and that's kind of what the practice of deep listening is.

01:11:44 - Speaker 1 The body has so much information for us so much. You know that from your work right.

01:11:49 - Speaker 2 And where is you know I mean. So that's what deep listening is for me is listening with the body, with the intuition, with your feelings, versus the surface level cognitive functions of the brain that have a lot of connection to, like, cultural programming, societal programming.

01:12:07 - Speaker 1 Man, to kind of bring a full circle back to what we're talking about in the beginning. My question first was can one conversation really change our relationship? You answered yes, but also like one question. We are one question, one conversation away from changing our relationship, but to change our life we really just need one pause, one moment, just that dynamic insertion. To quote, actually, my sister in law, she was talking to my wife a couple years ago about this promotion she was up for and she was so nervous, like what if they asked this, what do I do? She goes. Never underestimate the power of a pause. So much change, so much discomfort, both at the same time. Live inside of that pause. Humans, we don't like pause, we don't like no one talking, we don't like the uncomfortability of are you going to say something? Am I going to say something In that moment? Just inserting a pause, that is taking our power of not just regurgitating the same shit over and over Societal shit, our own shit.

01:13:15 Yeah, our own well, sure, yeah, there's the opportunity to listen, to feel what is the right response here.

01:13:23 - Speaker 2 Yeah, but not yeah. But when you say right, that's like well, to what end? So is it right? Or what is the appropriate response? What is the response that's coming up right now? When I feel into that, what am I feeling? Oh, this is not the right one, that's for this moment, or this is what comes up for this moment.

01:13:40 - Speaker 1 Huge difference, or they're right for this moment, but what's the thing that's-. Here's what's coming up versus. Here's what the situation needs.

01:13:46 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and with different kinds of conversations. I think it's interesting, it's-. Yeah, I gotta think about that.

01:13:57 - Speaker 1 Deep thoughts, deep thoughts.

01:13:59 - Speaker 2 You talk about the pause and kind of goes back to the thing about, you know, emotions worth a thousand thoughts and if you're just going to respond with one of the thoughts, you're starting at one of a thousand thoughts instead of you know, let's take a pause and sit in that emotion and let that space be what it is and breathe in it and maybe we actually communicate those thousand thoughts without saying a word, just being in it together. Or with one word, you can say those thousand thoughts, and that's what I take from your pause is like extend that to. You know, oftentimes when people, when people say things that trigger you and you get more emotional, that's a great sign to slow down and breathe, because what we're trained to do as human beings is when there's discomfort, we go fast.

01:14:43 - Speaker 1 The more discomfort, the faster we go, let me get out of this. Let me get out of this.

01:14:46 - Speaker 2 Let me speed through it. Yeah, and you have to do the exact opposite thing In the discomfort. You have to slow down that much more and go that much slower. And it helps when you're like okay, I don't have to solve it, I just have to be in it, the solving will come.

01:15:03 - Speaker 1 And have faith in that because it will stop solving, start being yeah, absolutely. Got a couple kind of little I'll say rapid fire ish questions as we get closer to the end. I hope this has been amazing man.

01:15:17 - Speaker 2 So much for your presence and your change Thank you.

01:15:20 - Speaker 1 It's been amazing. All right, let me get a little choosy here with my last few. We kind of already hit on this. I was going to ask if we get better at communicating in our relationships through better questions. What about our answers? Do our answers what we say and how we say it require the same level of fine tuning as our questions? And I think we kind of got there in terms of we don't really always need the answer, like we believe we do. We need just you know the time with the questions. So I'm going to go ahead and check. We're good there, but still wanted to close the loop and migrate for that one.

01:15:56 Okay, so this one's been a little bit more for you on the professional side. What is a question that you have been saving? In my experience, a lot of people that I've met that are just inquisitive other podcasters, other filmmakers even keep a log of great questions that you know they want to ask in an interview or something. With that kind of backstory in mind, what is maybe one that you've been saving? Or what is a question that you keep at the ready for for life?

01:16:22 - Speaker 2 or for work, but wait for me, or for me to ask someone question. In what framework? In what context?

01:16:30 - Speaker 1 Okay, so let me expand by saying yeah, do you have a burning question that you either have not found the right person to ask or have not yet developed the courage to ask someone already in your life?

01:16:43 - Speaker 2 Hmm, I mean the burning question to me right now that I've spent a lot of time on, is how can I, how can I cultivate? Okay, what experiences and environments can I put my children in that can better enable them to deal with the world and excel in the world that I have no idea what it's going to be like? That's what I'm thinking a lot about. You know is and I and you know that I've been spending since my son was born, even before, on that one. And then what professionally? I used to have all these goals professionally, and part of the thing about being where I'm at now is just, I don't ask myself a question of how can I grow the company bigger. The question asked is how can I apply this, this gift of this format of the end, to better things in the world and and help kind of elevate the sense of humanity that we all feel when we tap into these digital machines that we're so embedded in us.

01:17:51 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that's kind of I mean admirable goal and one that I think no doubt will serve you and everybody part of this project.

01:18:01 - Speaker 2 And then the other question I'm thinking about is how do we really handle the conversations? How do you? The question that I'm playing with now on the next level is just how do we like these questions are for exploration and deepening, but what about the conversation you have to have when you have to solve something and there's a lot of contention, and one of the things I'm thinking about for like the next book is 12 questions for peace. Is it then do a series of and between people have contentious issues, there's emotion and the painful and have, and then how do you construct those questions, that conversations to reach a solution of peace, whatever that means? That's that's that's something that I've been really in the light last two months, three months really going okay, man, how do we crack that code?

01:18:49 - Speaker 1 No easy feat there.

01:18:50 - Speaker 2 No, I have no idea, but for me the only way to do that is to step into it and do it and do it for a few years with a lot of experience, and then distill that down into sharing. If we, even if I, my team and I even get there.

01:19:04 - Speaker 1 Yeah Well, to the hat to you on that one. Best of luck. I would love to see that, However it manifests. Yeah, and last question before the final question here. So here we are now, as this goes live, we're 2024. What do you think is one question? What is one question you would encourage everyone to ask of their partner that you feel most probably should have by now?

01:19:30 - Speaker 2 Should have meaning that they've been in a relationship for a while, and draw me a picture.

01:19:34 - Speaker 1 Yes, let's say you've been a year, at least a year, and there's a question that you know, maybe a blanket statement, a blanket question that you think most couples have not yet gotten to. Or maybe, if you can think back to the first year in your relationship, what was one maybe that like could have served us, could have served me better if I got there?

01:19:53 - Speaker 2 I mean a good meat and potatoes, one which is in the book is what's our biggest challenge right now and what is it teaching us? Because what's our biggest challenge? You know, we all have challenges and if you say there's no challenge and I suggest that maybe you're not looking or you're avoiding it, but I think, by nature of change, that there's two or three or four beings together than a relationship there's going to be challenge. So what's the current challenge right now? Because that challenge will change and what's it teaching us and that already frames you as a thing is like this is a challenge that we can overcome together versus a problem. What's the problem? That's?

01:20:29 - Speaker 1 not a problem.

01:20:30 - Speaker 2 What's the challenge? Because we can accomplish, we can grow from that challenge right now because it's going to change. And what's it teaching us Meaning? Are we learning from it? I think that's a really good meat and potatoes. One is because when you're in a relationship we're speaking about you know if you're single and you know not in a relationship, you don't really necessarily have a mirror if you're not engaged in that dance of relationship. So when we are, we have that mirror. What are we learning from it? What are we learning from those challenges, from the blind spots, from the partners feeling the blind spots are not reflecting them? I think that's a really solid one.

01:21:02 - Speaker 1 A little extension there. I wonder if it could do well. I definitely would do good. It would do more good because that's the mindset we're in right here If someone posed that, but then each individual wrote it down on a piece of paper. If it's the same, if it's the same thing or not.

01:21:16 - Speaker 2 So I got a game you can play this with your wife that I really like and we actually have this summer of products. But you take a piece of paper. She takes a piece of paper. You ask a question, then she asks. She writes it down. You write it down. Then she asks a question, you write it down, she writes it down.

01:21:30 You each go through seven questions. You got 14 questions on a piece of paper, okay, right. Then you take 15, 20 minutes both of you answering the questions. You swap papers. Then you read her answer. She reads your answer to question one. Yes, talk about it. So you're reading the answers at the same time and these are the questions that are currently really important in your life. So we have that in some of our tool kits that we sell, on our digital tool kits. But I think that's I play that often with my partner. I love that. Right, even Pat previous partners is, you know, asking the questions that are kind of really in your head you want to talk about and seeing at the same time what your answers, how they similar, how they different, what does that reveal? It's a fun game.

01:22:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely up our alley. I have to check that out. Well, my last question, man, to bring it home to the theme of EverFord this conversation has definitely helped me learn how to move forward in better questions, letting go of answer seeking and just deeper, more intimate relationship tools. Definitely is helping me move forward in relationship with myself and my wife and everybody really. But what does that mean to you, those two words ever for it? How do you live a life ever forward?

01:22:43 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I actually never heard that conjugation of those two words till I knew I was coming on to this podcast.

01:22:50 - Speaker 1 So a little spin, a little spin on it.

01:22:54 - Speaker 2 Well, yes, never, never thought of and apparently there's a lot of that use of that word, I didn't realize it ever forward. I like the way it sounds and what comes up for me is obviously this constant movement forward. But what I think is key in that is grace. What I mean by grace is doing with the humility and understanding that we're not perfect but that our intention and yearning to grow and to move forward is what makes us beautifully human.

01:23:31 - Speaker 1 There's never a right or wrong answer. Yeah, yeah, so much what you just said, and so much has kind of just been a great little bow on our whole conversation, man. So thank you, this was incredible when can my audience go to? Connect with you more and learn more about what we got going on in the world.

01:23:46 - Speaker 2 We're the skin deep on YouTube, tiktok, instagram, the skin deep, basically, and then our website, the skin deepcom shop for all our products and the book.

01:23:56 - Speaker 1 You can buy the book anywhere, we'll have it all linked to you guys down on the show notes, video notes. Definitely check it out, thanks, jason. Thank you very much for this base, my pleasure.

01:24:03 - Speaker 2 My pleasure, thank you, and the questions For more information on everything you just heard.

01:24:08 - Speaker 1 make sure to check this episode's show notes or head to everforwardradio.com